family Archives - Dad of Divas

How to Let Go and Let Grow: Encouraging Independence in Daughters

August 24, 2026 by dadofdivas

Are you a dad searching for practical ways to foster a stronger bond and raise your daughter to be capable, resilient, and self-assured? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Lenore Skenazy, journalist, author, and founder of the Free-Range Kids movement, for a timely, inspiring discussion on balancing love, trust, and independence in parenting.

Challenging the Culture of Fear

One of the episode’s powerful themes is how today’s parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing “what ifs” from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children’s experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

The Power of Trust and Letting Go

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential “trust loop,” where letting children try things on their own—whether it’s walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, “When adults step back, kids step up.” True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

Practical Steps for Parents

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they’re small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own “let grow” experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you’ll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

Join the Movement

This episode isn’t just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today’s anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]:
I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It’s not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that’s okay. That’s why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’m a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we’ve got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I’m really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you’ve ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she’s an author, she’s founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she’s often called America’s worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]:
Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we’ve become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad’s been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things he didn’t do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn’t expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn’t have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn’t have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]:
Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it’s not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn’t have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]:
And that didn’t bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]:
As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]:
Well, here’s the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he’s looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man’s, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don’t say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]:
And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It’s the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he’s very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he’ll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he’s just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he’s— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it’s an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]:
And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you’re putting somebody else’s emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]:
And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it’s the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what’s your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]:
Now, I know you said your dad’s been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]:
Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I’m pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and ’20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we’d get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]:
And God knows how many toothpicks he’d go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]:
Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I’m going to say the world, because you’ve been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let’s go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]:
Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he’d never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we’re always on the subways. We don’t have a car and he’s a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale’s fancy department store where we don’t shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]:
So he’d never been there before. And it’s built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today’s the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]:
He’d finally been let loose and he’d proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, ’cause it didn’t strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I’ll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That’s wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]:
But what if he wasn’t? What if he’d been thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that’s what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you’re not doing that too, if you’re not saying, well, I’d like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who’s, you know, 5’6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I’m not going to let her walk. And that’s a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I’ve been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you’d have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]:
How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]:
Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]:
Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]:
Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]:
Yeah, because it’s an extraordinarily rare crime. It’s not extraordinarily rare on TV. It’s pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn’t happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It’s generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you’re gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn’t let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]:
You know, there’s drunk drivers out there, there’s bad drivers out there, there’s elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn’t let them live in a house with stairs or there’s a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you’ll never see him again. And that’s, that’s as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it’s like, I can’t let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It’s like, I’m really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it’s like, well, you should be. It’s like, but I’m not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]:
Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I’m like, I’m just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don’t care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You know, from everything I’ve seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]:
But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]:
from everything I’ve read, it seems like it’s actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]:
Well, I think you’ve nailed it. The way I’ve started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I’d love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I’d never see him again and I would— couldn’t live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I’d be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won’t let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]:
It’s sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It’s not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend’s house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you’re sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there’s horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]:
First of all, you’re a parent, you’re going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you’re— you, you’ve given birth to a child and now you’re going to worry about them. There’s no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they’re thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they’re a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn’t remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you’re so proud, right? You’re so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you’re a parent. I’ll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]:
You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she’s out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]:
Yeah, it’s not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn’t there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I’ve raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we’re there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we’re there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]:
And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we’re always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that’s because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We’ve really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]:
But look, that’s part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don’t get that. It’s, it’s the fun of— well, it’s the fun of seeing your kid after you haven’t seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you’re so much taller and you’ve filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that’s why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]:
But it’s also about Stepping back, because it’s true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you’re with your kids, you see what they’re doing wrong. Oh, that’s sloppy. That’s a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn’t do it that way. Here, let me help. It’s just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]:
It’s not because you’re a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It’s because when you’re with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don’t want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids’ adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that’s free, free, free, free, um, that’s called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents’ permission. But without your parents. And then each month there’s a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there’s a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]:
You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it’s really just to create that action that I’m talking about, ’cause action breaks the cycle. You’re afraid this’ll be terrible. If you’re really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend’s kid go out together. They don’t have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]:
and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can’t see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we’re there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it’s so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It’s like, yeah, because they haven’t eaten. They haven’t eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]:
And we’ve taken that out and we’ve given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I’d say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there’s, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that’s also just for home use, quote unquote. It’s like a game. It’s like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there’s 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he’s right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]:
And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That’s a very constricted childhood and that’s a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that’s the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it’s, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody’s doing it. You don’t feel weird, you don’t feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn’t do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]:
But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you’re drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger’s and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that’s nice. Or the laundry. That’s good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]:
You know, it doesn’t take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I’ve seen is that it’s just this loosening. It’s just a little loosening. There’s a little bit of pride. There’s a little bit of movement. And then it’s like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What’s a post office, Mom? I’ll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]:
So I’d say any movement is better than no movement, and it’s often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]:
What’s some of your favorite stories of, we’ll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]:
This is the one that I’ve heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it’s worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, ’cause it’s almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She’s sort of the apotheosis of what’s happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who’s 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It’s, it’s like, because someone’s going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don’t know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let’s put it that way, or excessive, right? I won’t say crazy, I’ll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]:
But anyways, he comes home, he’s got the Let Grow experience, He’s a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He’s in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can’t I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she’s like, okay, because she’s been— she’s getting used to it. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s a word in psychology, I think it’s accommodating or whatever it is. She’s getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]:
And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there’s 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]:
And then they’re all over the neighborhood and they’re zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it’s like locusts. They’ll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she’s now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]:
live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she’s also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can’t believe it. I’m gonna call the school. You know, I’m gonna get out there. That’s so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]:
Don’t worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we’re handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can’t keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let’s call him Steve. You can’t keep being mean to Steve. You know, that’s just not fair, or, you know, we won’t ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it’s true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]:
I guess as I think about what you’re saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you’re saying. So you talk about what you’re doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]:
A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They’re not good helpers. They’re terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they’re part of. And so don’t thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]:
And then when they’re older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it’s really good advice. It’ll take longer, but in the end, you’ll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you’re doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children’s museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it’s because they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]:
And they told Group B, they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they’re struggling with a button or a toggle, that’s actually learning? They’re learning every time they try to do something, even if they’re not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]:
And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that’s just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]:
that’s very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can’t show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, ’90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]:
That’s all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they’re going to be online. I would be too. It’s the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]:
So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we’re going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]:
Friday afternoons, I’m gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I’m not gonna be watching them, but there’ll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they’ll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there’s, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]:
Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]:
Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I’ve been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor’s wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you’re trying something in the real world, at first you’re not good at it, whether it’s making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn’t fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I’ve done something like that before, or, I’ve never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you’re wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven’t done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]:
So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that’s all I’m saying. It’s just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]:
First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I’m just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it’s let’s go or let it grow or let’s get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it’s letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it’s actually quite hard, I don’t know. It’s let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]:
So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They’re gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she’d been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That’s a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I’m gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]:
Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]:
Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]:
As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]:
I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there’s a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you’ve heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can’t make them into something. We can’t make a physicist. We can’t make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can’t make a genius. You can’t make a jerk. There’s a lot that’s innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]:
And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can’t make an Einstein and you can’t really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]:
Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you’re doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I’ve fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we’ve done some good things too. But we’ve also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]:
You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that’s just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It’s like, that’s not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We’re all humans and we’re going to make mistakes. And I think that what you’re doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]:
Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

The Power of Being Present: Fatherhood Lessons with Mitesh Khatri

April 27, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

What does it really mean to be a great dad to a daughter? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection digs deep into this all-important question. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis, joined by guest Mitesh Khatri—Melbourne father, writer, and corporate strategist—explores the daily challenges, triumphs, and small yet powerful moments that shape our relationships with our daughters.

A central theme of the conversation is the importance of being truly present. As Mitesh Khatri candidly shares, simply being in the room is not enough; it’s about showing up emotionally and giving your attention, especially during routines like bedtime or unstructured play. One meaningful moment he describes is when his young daughter told him to “stop rushing me.” This wake-up call led him to rethink how often stress and distraction rob us of precious connection—and how even “routine” moments can become the foundation of trust and closeness.

The episode also explores the challenge of balancing professional ambitions with family life. Mitesh Khatri discusses how corporate careers often offer clear metrics of success—promotions, projects, and accolades—whereas fatherhood can feel less measurable. The takeaway? We must create our own scorecards within our families: counting moments of connection, presence, and patience as real victories.

Perhaps most powerfully, the episode underscores the need for vulnerability. Mitesh Khatri opens up about his struggles with stress, his journey to calm his nervous system, and his realization that anger often masks deeper feelings like disappointment or sadness. He introduces practical strategies—like pausing before reacting and honest journaling—to help break generational cycles and model healthier emotional regulation for our daughters.

For dads who worry about not getting it right, Mitesh Khatri says it’s not about perfection, but about trying. He advocates for intentionality, ongoing learning, and talking openly with other dads. As host Dr. Christopher Lewis reminds listeners, “being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present.”

If you’re searching for practical insight and heartfelt stories on building meaningful father-daughter relationships, this is one episode you shouldn’t miss. Tune in to The Dad and Daughter Connection for real conversations that will leave you inspired to show up, connect, and be the dad she needs.

Listen now and start building your own toolkit for intentional, loving fatherhood.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to delve a little bit deeper and into the relationships that you want to build with your kids. And I love that you’re here. Every week you’re here, you’ve rolled up your sleeves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]:
You are doing what you can to be able to show up for your daughters in so many different ways. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists to help you to be that dad that you want to be. And I try to bring you different people, different people with different experiences every week to allow for you to be able to learn something new, to gain some tools for your toolbox that can help you to be able to be that dad. Today we’ve got another great guest. Mitesh Khatri is with us today. And Mitesh is a father from Melbourne, Australia. He’s got two kids himself and we’re going to focus on his daughter, but he also has a son and we’re going to learn a little bit more about him and I’m really excited to have him here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]:
Mitesh, thanks so much for being here today.

Mitesh Khatri [00:01:53]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And really appreciate all the work you do for fatherhood and dads and daughter in this connection. This podcast is fantastic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]:
Well, I really appreciate that you’re here today and we’re going to talk about a new book that you have out to help fathers in many different ways as well. But. But we always start our interviews talking a little bit about you as a dad and especially as a dad to a daughter. And I know you’ve got a six year old daughter and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper. And I guess as you’re thinking about your relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful mom that you’ve been able to share with your daughter, what made it so special?

Mitesh Khatri [00:02:28]:
Yeah, I think one of my most meaningful moments has definitely been the bedtime routine. I think it’s been really. Because it’s come from a moment where it wasn’t the best moment for me. So, you know, there was a time when I was completely stressed out. Two young kids, and my daughter was four. My son was five and a half. And I remember my son is quite direct. But my daughter, she is more subtle in her ways of expressing her emotions.

Mitesh Khatri [00:02:54]:
And she said to me one night, and as I was putting her to bed, four years old, looked up to me and said, you know, stop rushing me. Those three words, I just froze. And she wasn’t being difficult. I was trying to get through the routine. Please put on your pajamas, brush your teeth, go to the bathroom, read a book or two, or cut it short. I was stressed, I was depleted, and I didn’t want to be there in the room mentally, even though, you know, my beautiful daughter was just asking me to be there and to actually be present with her. And we talk about present all the time. I hear it on your podcast.

Mitesh Khatri [00:03:23]:
It’s all be present. It’s so difficult to do. You can’t think yourself to be present in the moment. You physically can sometimes not be able to be present, and your mind is rushing and your body is not allowing you to do that. So it was quite a low moment. But today, when I look at it, it’s one of the most beautiful times I have, is to put her to sleep every day, read her books, that routine, the cuddle she gives. And I look at her now, she’s six years old, just turned in April. We take time with that routine, and I really cherish that time.

Mitesh Khatri [00:03:51]:
Is she’s so sweet and she has the cutest smile and the cuddles and kisses you get at that time, you think, well, you know, I’m never going to get this back. And she’s only going to be this age, like this, this moment. So we have to make the most of it, because they do fade. I hear it from people with older children. You have clearly girls that have grown up. You have to appreciate that. And so I think my best moments, they’re around the bedtime routine because you get to talk about the day. You get to talk about what they really enjoyed, what they liked in the day, what they didn’t and might do differently.

Mitesh Khatri [00:04:21]:
And it’s really sort of deep, meaningful connections which you might not get it. Sort of school pickup. How was your day?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:26]:
So talk to me a little bit about that transition that you had to go through because just hearing those three words, you can’t switch on a dime. You definitely have to go through a process for yourself to, I’m going to say, reinvent yourself in many different ways to be able to change that paradigm for yourself. So talk to me a little bit about that and what you had to do to be able to make that shift. I’m guessing failing a few times along the way and then getting to the point where you are now.

Mitesh Khatri [00:04:55]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, what I found was I thought I could think myself to be present and calm. And actually I found at that point my, my body was tense. It was stressed out from work, stressed out from home work, life management, all things that new dads or sort of dads at least, I mean all dads, but especially with the young children, you have a lot of competing priorities. And I didn’t think to look there, but actually looked to my body and I was tense in the shoulders, my back was hurting, I felt I was short of breath. Deadlines and emails and what’s next for the kids in terms of what we need to take care of. And I had to go through a bit of journey to really understand how to relax my nervous system. Right.

Mitesh Khatri [00:05:38]:
Ultimately our. If we think back to sort of hunter gatherer times and we think about the threats we had, right? We always talk about the lion and we sort of have to run away from the lion, the threat, and then our sort of nervous system can calm down. In today’s day and age, we all know with technology and the pace of life, there’s almost this ambient stress and therefore our automatic nervous system actually never sort of calms down. So we need to be sort of this safe and secure place. Polyvagal theory sort of talks about this where you need to be safe and secure. The next stage is survival mode and then complete shutdown. And I think many of us, at least me at the time, I was at least in survival mode every day, if not shut down on every other day. And I had to get my body back and I had to sort of calm my body.

Mitesh Khatri [00:06:25]:
And I have a sort of framework in the book around how we can discharge that stress. And there’s techniques and things you can learn to do. And I sort of had to learn how to do that and how to bring my body back to its irregular state.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:38]:
And that’s never easy. And I guess one thing that comes to mind is you and I talked at the very beginning that you’re a busy guy, you have Your professional work, you’re balancing that. You’re balancing being a dad, you’re balancing other things in your life. So talk to me about balance and how you’ve been able to find that optimal balance for yourself to be able to be the professional you want to be, the person you want to be, the father you want to be as you are today.

Mitesh Khatri [00:07:04]:
Yeah, I think balance is a very interesting word. Right. I think you have to really dig deep. If I sort of bring a parallel to corporate life, and I’ve been in corporate Life for like 20 years, helping organizations with complex jobs, blue chip organizations. I’m a sort of marketing corporate strategist, working in research and consulting. And, you know, we’re helping brands launch new products and services and ensure they meet consumer needs and doing some complex work around that. And I was sort of succeeding in that sort of arena because I had the metrics to sort of measure and perhaps in the most important area of my life, my family and my children, I didn’t have the metrics, I didn’t have the measure, and I felt like I was failing. It always came sort of second.

Mitesh Khatri [00:07:44]:
And I think myself, and when I talk to other dads in the community and friends and colleagues, I find it’s an easier thing to measure. So men sort of go towards things we can measure and we get that affirmation we’re seeking from work. We get praised with it. And it’s this scoreboard, I think, that we can easily track and see. When I think fatherhood’s not so easy, it’s in feelings, it’s in moments, it’s in those relationships where you can feel them. But you sort of. No one sort of celebrates the dad that comes home at 5pm on time to put his kids to sleep. But you do get the accolades and success at work when you succeed in your career.

Mitesh Khatri [00:08:19]:
And I’m not saying that we should sort of give up and forego our careers. I think it’s. It’s finding ways to measure things that matter. Those moments at home. So it might be the time that you don’t actually have your phone on you and just. Just have unstructured play with your children. You’re just getting on the floor. You’re not in any structured piece of work or structured time is taking them to dance, taking to music, taking him to soccer practice.

Mitesh Khatri [00:08:42]:
You know, that’s very structured. And kids need. Kids need that structure. But I think almost equally important or more important, they need that unstructured time. So I think when you can have those moments, you can say I’ve had 1, 2, 3, 4 moments this week where I’ve had really had unstructured time and play with my daughter. Whether we’re doing teacups or playing with Barbie dolls or kicking the ball outside. Those are the measures of success that I just didn’t have. I had all the traditional stuff, the KPIs that you get in your corporate life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:10]:
And there’s always this push and pull when it comes to raising daughters. And as you are trying to raise your daughters, you’re balancing, trying to guide your daughter while also giving her the independence to become the person that she’s becoming. And I know she’s still young, but I guess as she has been growing up. How do you balance that? How do you balance guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence?

Mitesh Khatri [00:09:32]:
Yeah, I think it’s a really interesting one. I think kids in general, but daughters especially you are the model they’re looking to when it comes to men right from a very young age age. So there’s, there’s that scanning they do of the environment to see how do you react to situations, how do you carry yourself when things get tough, how do you treat your partner, her mum, you know, how are you treating different women, how do you sort of interact, how do you talk to friends that are female, how do you just treat people in general? So I think they’re modeling and learning of what a man should be. So I think you want to sort of help them with that. And in terms of independence, I think it really comes down to having honest, open conversations as much as you can for that age where you can really help them distinguish between right and wrong. What is the right kind thing to do and what is not so kind, what are the sort of right behaviors to be following? I guess. And one of the things I’m always mindful of is no one’s a perfect father, but not moving straight from a stimulus like some sort of stressor, straight to anger. And I think we as men tend to do that, perhaps more when especially I was doing that quite a bit where I’d find myself, kids are running late to school, we need to go.

Mitesh Khatri [00:10:41]:
And I actually get really angry. It’d come out in the force in my voice. And then you sort of how it is, you tell your kids not to shout at the other one and that’s what you’re doing and that’s the behavior and modeling. So I think modeling the right behavior is pretty critical. And that sort of journey of really understanding myself, modeling the right behaviors was pretty critical for Me for the last sort of two years. And, you know, recognizing that actually underneath that anger, it’s actually not anger that we’re feeling often. Maybe we’re hurt because actually we really wanted to spend that hour playing with our daughters before they go to school. Maybe we’re sad because.

Mitesh Khatri [00:11:14]:
Or disappointed because we wanted the morning to go a particular way and on time and not be late for something else. And we sort of go straight. We almost skip that emotion in between. Sadness, disappointment, hurt. Because I think we just weren’t taught that. And therefore our daughters are learning that. They’re modeling that as well. You know, when I get angry, I’ll just.

Mitesh Khatri [00:11:33]:
I’ll just go straight to voice, you know, raise my voice and actually not express my emotions. So I’m trying to say I’m hurt. I’m sorry I didn’t do the right thing there. And I apologize. I felt really sad that we couldn’t be on time because of these reasons. So it’s trying to label the emotion and model that. But I think the independence thing is hard. I think you’re always scanning the environment to go, how much do I let her go? How much do I pull her back in? Whether it’s at parties, whether it’s devices, whether it’s certain foods she might be eating or whatever it is.

Mitesh Khatri [00:12:02]:
That’s a tricky one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:03]:
Completely understand. And we never have all the right answers. I mean, we definitely do our best and we try our best to be the best people we can be, but we’re flawed. Everybody is flawed in talking about that, I guess. What’s the mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it, about fostering a positive connection with your daughter?

Mitesh Khatri [00:12:22]:
I think I’ve made lots of mistakes. Probably like many dads, we all make lots of mistakes. I think one potential mistake I’ve made my daughter, and it probably comes from being that almost pushy parent when it comes to activities in sports. So sports or music or whatever it is really pushing them, maybe pushing them too much as well. We’re often projecting our own childhoods onto our kids. And they can lose the fun, you know, in what they’re doing, whether it’s dance or they’re playing some sport or whatever it is, and I think you want them to do well. But I think it’s also recognizing that they’re just kids, you know, we’re not sort of in the professional leagues. So I think I’ve really learned from that.

Mitesh Khatri [00:13:02]:
To not be the parent on the sideline shouting. I think it’s encouraging your kids, but not in a way that’s perhaps disrupting their sort of natural way to enjoy what they’re doing, whether it’s. Yeah. Dance or sport or whatever it is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:16]:
Now, as I mentioned, you’ve got a new book that’s out there called the Fight or Father Using Calm to Stop Reacting and Start Connecting. As a author myself, I know that many times when you’ve got this idea in your head and you got this passion to be able to get these words out and trying to connect with your people that, that you go all in. But you definitely have to have a passion for it to get to that finish line. So give me the story of the book and tell. Talk to me about why. Why you decided to write it, why you decided to put the time, the effort and the passion into it to get it out into the world.

Mitesh Khatri [00:13:52]:
I never thought I’d be a writer myself, but I’ve always sort of been research and really, as I was saying to you earlier before we started, always very interested in why people do what they do and what drives our behavior, what motivates us. Right. So I mean, I’m the sort of tragic in the self help section looking at the next book and going, how can I learn from this? I wrote this book because I think modern fatherhood is really breaking men and the expectations have changed and you’re supposed to be a provider and present with your kids. You’re meant to be the breadwinner and also emotionally available. And no one really taught us. If we think about our father’s generation, they didn’t really teach us how to do that. Our fathers really had a role which was sacrifice, commit yourself and be the breadwinner and be respected at home and very traditional household. I guess I’m talking to.

Mitesh Khatri [00:14:40]:
And I think I see a lot of modern parents for really my sort of discoveries on this journey started about five years ago. Kids very young. I see a lot of dads just grinding through it, myself included, exhausted, distracted. We’re snapping at our kids. We sort of promise ourselves we’re going to do better tomorrow and. But deep down we know something’s wrong, something’s not working. We need better tools, we need better ways to parent and we know that it’s a learning process at all. So I wrote this in almost a way to sort of say we can choose to fight and react and be in that sort of survival mode or shutdown mode when stresses hit with our kids, or we can choose a almost new way to father modern fatherhood.

Mitesh Khatri [00:15:19]:
I think it takes the best of what our fathers taught us. And it builds on that. And I think it builds on, you know, a lot of what you talk about, Christopher, is, is showing vulnerability. We need to show vulnerability to our children. We need to show not just the masculine side, but actually it’s okay to get things wrong. And this is what you do to repair that. And I think, I’m sure there’s lots of books that sort of talk to various things around that out there. I didn’t see something targeted specifically at that aspect.

Mitesh Khatri [00:15:45]:
And therefore, yeah, really focused in my own journey of switching from a dad that was reacting all the time at his kids, didn’t have the patience. As I said, my body was chronically stressed at the time. I put on weight and wasn’t eating well. I was numbing pain through alcohol, etc. And it’s not enough to just think yourself to a better version of yourself. You need tools, you need techniques. So I wrote the book and have got some practical techniques on what dads can do. You know, simple things like just having clear boundaries between work and home.

Mitesh Khatri [00:16:18]:
It’s so difficult, particularly post Covid. Many of us are working home in hybrid sort of environments and it blurs. You have your kids next to you in the school holidays. We’ve got school holidays going on now. My son or daughter will work almost in the same room in a work mode. I might close the laptop, but still mentally be processing the emails that I haven’t sent, the tasks I haven’t done. So I think it’s having those practices to say, you know, simple things, five seconds, where you might go, I’m home now, I’ve closed the laptop, let me show up. Or you might go wash your face or you might go change your clothes.

Mitesh Khatri [00:16:48]:
It’s just physically doing something. You might do 20 star jumps. But you need that transition process and just one example from work to home. So that calm framework is really around that. So you clear your body of the stress. Firstly, you anchor yourself between work and home. So have a ritual around that. You lead with calm because kids follow your regulations.

Mitesh Khatri [00:17:09]:
You need to be calm and have techniques for that and model and repair is probably the most important part where when you get it wrong and you will like myself every day, there’ll be something I do wrong, I need to admit to it and I need to label what that emotion is, which is then going into my vulnerable side, you know, it’s going into really understanding what that emotion is, not just anger and then coming up with a repair, you know. So yeah, I just remember I Actually had an argument with my daughter. I was stressed this A couple of days ago. She wanted to play. She can we play. She likes doing tea parties and cafes in her room. And I didn’t have the patient. And I just said to her, I’m really tired.

Mitesh Khatri [00:17:47]:
I’m stressed. I’ve had a long day and a hard day. And I shouted at you, is it okay if we start again? And she just looked at me and she said, okay, dad. And I think previously I would have just shouted and said, I’m not doing this, and it’s time for bed. So I think. I think it’s having those skills. It’s. Firstly, I’ve been quite vulnerable in the book myself.

Mitesh Khatri [00:18:04]:
So, you know, I’ve had sort of beta readers say it’s been quite difficult to read at times because they’ve seen themselves in it as well. So I think it’ll. It’ll definitely make you turn the mirror on yourself and analyze your own life, your own behaviors, and perhaps you’ll pick a couple of techniques and tools that you can use to just be that modern father and not fight all the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]:
And one of the things you write about in the book is being there, but not there. And many dads believe simply being physically present is enough. What helped you recognize the difference between proximity and true presence? And how can dads begin to see that difference in their own lives?

Mitesh Khatri [00:18:42]:
I like the bedtime routine with my daughter. It was actually that really broke me when she said, stop rushing me. And you really, you know, reflect on those things and try to make a change. And you don’t always get it right. But my son said to me one day, he was on the, I think, kitchen table, dining table. I was scrolling on Instagram, you know, usual blur posts that we would normally go, just mindless, scrolling, doom scrolling. And Taj was nearby and he. I don’t know what he was doing exactly.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:08]:
And that was part of the problem. And without looking up, he said, you’re always on your phone, dad. Not angry. He wasn’t whining, just like matter of the fact. Like, he was describing the weather. And I looked at him and, you know, his face was soft. He was disappointed. He wasn’t trying to start a fight with me about it, that he was just telling me the facts for what he saw.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:26]:
And I said automatically, almost automatically, I’m not quite defensive. I just need to do this one thing. And clearly I was lying to him, right? I wasn’t being honest. I was lying to him. I wasn’t being honest to myself. I put the phone down in that moment and I felt my chest get tight and I had a little shake in my hands and I felt enormous guilt that he had just seen me more clearly than I had seen myself. And I think we’ve all been there and I think researchers, you know, we’ve heard this all the time, we hear about phones all the time. But technically interference.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:57]:
Dr. Brandon Michael actually coined the term where seemingly sort of normal amounts of phone use during parent child time. It’s actually linked to increased behavioral problems in children. So the screen time, not because of the screen time itself, but what it communicates like. You’re not important to me. Right. Right now, in this moment, this is most important to me. We’ve all heard that before.

Mitesh Khatri [00:20:18]:
So that’s what I mean by you’re there, but you’re not really there. You’re in the room physically, but in your mind you’re somewhere else. You’re in another place, you’re thinking about something else. You’re not actually aware of your surroundings. You’re not actually picking up the cues or the people in the room. So I think that in itself because it increases the behavioral problems and we see how much time we spend on our phones and screens. It’s something which I’ve been much more conscious with. Now the phone goes on the charger.

Mitesh Khatri [00:20:44]:
Leave it there at 6pm in the evening. Sometimes I’ll throw it upstairs in the bedroom in a drawer. Because when it’s there we’re just so automatic. We’re so addicted to these devices that are in our pockets that are so powerful. So I think that’s really what I mean. We’re not there. And that can be a physical device, but it can also be actually we haven’t decompressed from the day and we’ve got all the stress from work or so we’re thinking about something else. We’re actually not there with our family.

Mitesh Khatri [00:21:08]:
We’re just unavailable and we’re not in tuned with not engaging with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:12]:
Now one of the other things that I read in the book was you talk about how many fathers suddenly hear their own dad’s voice coming out of their mouths during those stressful moments that you kind of talked about. When that realization happens, what practical steps help a father pause long enough to break that generational pat?

Mitesh Khatri [00:21:32]:
Yeah, that is a real difficult one. I think. I think what I’ve done is pause for five seconds. So when you see your voice coming, and you might even hear, you might even see in your children yourself, then your father talking to you In a particular way, that is really difficult. And I think we have to appreciate everything they did for us in terms of sacrificing, building a life and opportunities for us, and appreciate all those things. But at the same time, they maybe didn’t know how to deal with that stress or anxiety, anger. And when I say anger, it could be hurt, it could be disappointment, it could be sadness around something. So I think, you know, pausing, reflecting.

Mitesh Khatri [00:22:10]:
It’s a lot of journaling. So the last five years, on and off, journaling, I haven’t been as regular. But journaling on those moments where you know that you’ve almost automatically reacted in a way, and you can hear your father’s voice, whether it’s the harshness, whether it’s the criticism, whether it was the absence of. Of a father. I think we tend to overcompensate from what we had or didn’t have. And I think it’s a lot of deep reflection that needs to be done. But I just encourage everyone to just pause, pause. You don’t have to respond straight away to your kids.

Mitesh Khatri [00:22:41]:
You can pause for a couple of seconds, reflect, and actually sit with those thoughts. I think you got to do quite a bit of deep work and journal and plenty of services out there where you can talk to psychiatrists and psychologists and so forth to really understand the relationships with our parents. I think I’d also encourage if. If you can and your father’s around, have a conversation with him, Talk to him about things that you really have a lot of gratitude for and the things you wish that he could have done better. I think those things, and it’s not sort of pointing the finger or blaming anyone, it’s just having those honest conversations. And I think you’d be surprised where that might take you as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:17]:
It definitely is a journey. And a lot of times we’re constantly trying to find new ways to be able to measure up as a dad. And we look around us and we think, oh, all these dads are doing better than we are. And there’s almost that. As you talk in the book about that scorecard that we have in our book, about how we are grading ourself, how we’re scoring ourselves, and you talk about rethinking that internal scorecard that we use to measure success. What are the most common invisible scorecards that you’re seeing that fathers are running, and how do they quietly pull dads away from connection with their kids? But also, how can we change the script on those scorecards and allow for us to be able to look at that in a different way.

Mitesh Khatri [00:24:03]:
Yeah, I think that there’s a powerful primary story here. We almost have this deep obligation we have to build, we have to secure, we have to work long hours. We have to sacrifice. Sacrifice is love. And love looks like a mortgage paid off, a fridge that’s full, a future that’s funded for the kids. And that is important, you know, and elements of that are really important. And it’s a powerful story, and it has deep roots in human history, and male identity has been shaped by that. And I sort of talked about this a little bit earlier, earlier in the sense that fathers of men that do that, you know, they keep reinforcing that scorecard that exists.

Mitesh Khatri [00:24:37]:
So, you know, status follows the achievement. Respect comes with that success. The man is getting the promotion or close the deal or starting a new business and is an entrepreneur. They get admired. But we’re not throwing the awards and accolades for the dad who’s performing really well at home with his kids and actually teaching them about vulnerability, teaching them about how to regulate themselves, teaching them about how to show kindness and how to introduce themselves and respect others and be part of the community and. And, you know, have strong values and those sort of things. So I think men chase the thing that’s being rewarded, and we pour ourselves into that, you know, into our careers and into our work, and then we don’t have much left for the family. So.

Mitesh Khatri [00:25:16]:
And I think what fathers can do is have that sort of scorecard for themselves. So I have read sort of James Clear Atomic Habits, and, you know, we’re all sort of creatures of habits. So in my diary that I physically write, I write time with my wife, specific things I want to do, time with my kids, specific activities, time for my exercise. And I tick those things off, right? So I’m not just my career ticks and successes, but actually, what are my goals for my relationship with my son, my relationship with my daughter, my wife? What are my goals? How am I working towards that and am I sharing those goals, what I’m trying to do? So I think almost like we have KPIs for work, if you have a team and you have some employees and you sort of evaluate them, you can’t evaluate them on something you haven’t actually given clear KPIs on. And I think it’s hard to evaluate yourself on your family life if you’re not clear on those KPIs as well, and your children as well. If you want them to respect other people and talk with kindness, then you need to Teach them that. So you need to sit down, maybe it’s 10 minutes, maybe it’s a couple of hours where you need to show them what kindness looks like. How do you actually talk to someone? How do you greet someone? You know, how do you leave a social situation in a respectful way? I think those things we don’t measure and therefore we just think they just happen and get done.

Mitesh Khatri [00:26:34]:
I think, you know, the adult, the age old sort of saying what gets measured gets done in corporate life also matters in our personal life. And so we need to create those measures at home. And I don’t really know what the perfect measures are. It might just be that I had a beautiful moment with my kid today, you know, have a box for that and it’s a tick. So there were three nice things that my child said to somebody else as a measure around that. I think we need to create our own measures of success and have some KPI guys similar to what we would do in our career, because that’s how you get to the next level. You sort of can’t do that in your relationships if you don’t know what those measures of success are. So I think we all need to sort of create those.

Mitesh Khatri [00:27:12]:
And they’re going to be different for different, you know, whether it’s a girl or a boy or different ages, you sort of need to come up with those and your kids can be part of it, your wife can be part of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:20]:
The one thing I really liked about your book, and I think we could spend the next few hours talking about different aspects of your book, but one of the things that I really liked was the fact that your book, as you said, wasn’t written from the perspective of someone that’s figured everything out. You talk about where you are now, what you’ve learned along the way, but at the same time that you’re still failing, that you’re still flawed, and that there’s still things to learn. So as you are continuing your journey, what are you still learning about fatherhood that is surprising you?

Mitesh Khatri [00:27:52]:
So there’s just everyday surprises, I guess, with kids. You know, they sort of surprise you in different ways. But I’m just trying to think of more sort of themes that surprise you. Me, I think their maturity surprises me. You sort of sometimes underestimate how much your kids are learning as they grow up and where they’re at. They’re 7 and 6 and my daughter’s 6 years old, but you know, she knows a lot about the world and she is very mature when she needs to be And I sort of sometimes don’t want that to go away. Like her being very young, that small little girl, that beautiful girl that I put to bed at bedtime, I don’t want her to grow up to too quick. So, I mean, coming back to your question, what, what am I still learning is I think our kids are becoming independent and learning more than sometimes we appreciate or sort of take notice of.

Mitesh Khatri [00:28:38]:
And I mean, that’s come back, comes back to your independence. You know how, you know, you want them to have that independence and learn and grow and not slow them down in those settings. But I think my natural instincts is maybe to slow them down at the age they’re at and make sure they don’t grow up too quickly. So I think that’s a tough sort of battle I’m sort of facing. That’s what sort of comes to mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:58]:
And I guess finally, as I think about your book and for you, as you think about the legacy that you’re leaving behind in the book, you ask fathers to consider what their children are going to remember about them. If your kids were adults today, in reflecting on your parenting journey, what do you hope that they would say, say most about you?

Mitesh Khatri [00:29:21]:
I hope my children at the start of my book, this book is for every that that’s trying and I hope they see that I really tried. I, I got it right a lot of the time and probably got it wrong a lot of the time as well. So I think if I can have them growing up seeing a man that really tried to improve themselves, really tried to improve himself around his relationship with them and worked hard at the that and didn’t take my situation and where I was, as you know, that’s how it is. And I improved on who I was and knowing that those I was never going to be perfect and that I tried, that I love them, that I wanted the best for them and wanted to support them in everything that they did. So particularly with Alia, if I think about her, she has a lot of strength and it’s through sensitivity. She feels our feelings much more than my son will. She’ll notice things in others. She’ll carry emotions that’s probably bigger than a small little body.

Mitesh Khatri [00:30:18]:
I want her to know that she really has a superpower there in terms of that emotional intelligence and she can sort of really sense the situation. I hope that I give them the foundations of what being a good person is, what a kind person is, that vulnerability is strength. Whether you’re, whether it’s my daughter or my son being vulnerable, being Self aware, being calm when things get tough, showing emotional strength. They’re going to be the backbone of everything that sort of helps you in your life, whether it’s career or family or social. I want them to get rid of emotional sort of just thinking about it, but I just want them to remember myself and my wife really loved and cared and, and did everything for them to ensure that they got the right values in life, that they got all the opportunities they wanted to have, and that we really tried, that we always loved them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:06]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:16]:
All right, let’s try it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:17]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:20]:
Beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:21]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:26]:
Work on you first. Start with yourself. Then you can serve the people you love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:31]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:35]:
There’s many, but. Bedtimes, tea parties, playing with her dolls. I’m definitely a dad that has not done that until my daughter came along. So really getting down on the floor and playing those games. Games. Originally I felt quite ridiculous doing it, but then I thought I found joy in it because I’ve just never done it before. Just freeing into my sports and, you know, all the manly activities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:55]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:00]:
You know, always, always speak your mind and stand up for yourself. You have a lot of potential.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:06]:
Now, you’ve mentioned a number of these, but what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:12]:
So much. Yeah. Um, that you really need a lot of patience. We hear it all the time. But I think more importantly, everything you do has to be quite intentional and intentional. And I’ve heard you talk about it. Chris. Christopher as well.

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:23]:
Intentionality is probably one of those cornerstones of everything you’re doing in fatherhood, especially with your daughters. You’ve got to be quite intentional, but not, obviously, taking away from unstructured play time. But by being intentional, you can be present, you can be there, not outside the room.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:39]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful, meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:46]:
Treat vulnerability as strength. And I think if you were to journal or you talk to some close mates and dads and actually really get into the deep and meaningful and get vulnerable. And in my book, I have A lot of stories from other dads I run with and friends and we start to realize that we’re living parallel lives and when we get vulnerable, something unlocks, we learn something. And I think men don’t talk enough. So I’m a big advocate of dads talking about talking. And podcasts like this bring different topics and things dads are going through to, to life because we tend to bottle everything up right. We’re not very good at that. So I just encourage everyone to talk to someone and around things you’re going through and it might surprise you that actually somebody else might be going through very something very similar and can you can relate and you can bond over that.

Mitesh Khatri [00:33:35]:
So make sure you join these sort of podcasts or some sort of dad group or have a set of friends you can can have those conversations with.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:45]:
Well, Mitesh, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for putting this book out into the world, for sharing your journey with us today. And it’s not over, but I know that it’ll keep continuing and you’ll keep learning. But I truly want to say thank you and I wish you all the best.

Mitesh Khatri [00:33:59]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. Really appreciate it. And yeah, the book comes out on 28th of July, so it’ll be available Amazon, all sort of good book stores.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]:
We’ll definitely put a link in the notes today and I congratulate you on getting this out into the world and look forward to others reading it and learning from what you’ve learned along the way.

Mitesh Khatri [00:34:17]:
Thank you so much, Christopho.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:18]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at the end dad and daughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:34:49]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the miracle we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to now Be the best dad you can be the best that you can be.

Growing Together: Consistency, Challenges, and Connection with Daryl Potter

September 29, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Navigating the journey of fatherhood comes with unique joys and profound challenges, especially when it comes to building lasting, meaningful relationships with our daughters. In the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Daryl Potter—a seasoned banker, published author, and devoted father—for an inspiring conversation about the realities and rewards of raising both neurodivergent and neurotypical children.

Right from the start, this episode sets a heartfelt tone about the power of presence, vulnerability, and intentional connection. Dr. Lewis reminds us that fatherhood isn’t a quest for perfection, but a continual commitment to showing up, listening, and learning alongside our children. Daryl echoes this philosophy, sharing deeply personal stories from his nearly 30 years of parenting—a journey shaped by both typical milestones and unexpected challenges. His openness about raising a daughter with a degenerative, nonverbal condition is both moving and eye-opening, reminding listeners that every child’s journey (and every dad’s, too) comes with its own unexpected plot twists.

A central theme of the discussion is the idea that parenting is storytelling—not just the stories we tell our kids, but the stories we live alongside them. Daryl explains how he intentionally crafts and shares stories about his own mistakes, growth, and childhood, giving his children not only a sense of family identity, but also permission to be imperfect, learn, and evolve. Just as importantly, he emphasizes the impact of the “stories” parents tell through their actions: how we handle spilled milk, failed attempts, or tough seasons. Our reactions can either instill shame or build resilience and belonging.

The episode is packed with practical wisdom: the importance of consistency, the transformative power of focused listening, and the annual necessity of “rewriting” our own parenting narrative as our children grow. Daryl shares beautiful examples—like letting his daughter choose her own socks, even when communication is limited—that illustrate how honoring a child’s agency and individuality nurtures their confidence and sense of self.

For dads seeking actionable inspiration and heartfelt encouragement, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a testament to the fact that connection isn’t about being the perfect father—it’s about showing up, embracing the journey, and learning to see the world through your daughter’s eyes.

Ready to go deeper? Listen to the full episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection and discover more stories, challenges, and wins from fathers on the same path. Your journey to a deeper connection starts here.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to delve a little bit deeper into the relationships that we want to build with our daughters. And every day we’re going to be pushing ourselves to challenge ourselves to be that much better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]:
And we have to be willing and open to learn and to grow and to be able to know that we don’t know everything. We’re flawed. We’re going to make mistakes along the way. And that’s why this show exists, that’s why this podcast is here, and that’s why I love every week being able to talk with you, to be able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’ve got two daughters, many of my guests have daughters. And in this journey that you’re on, be open, be open to listening and hearing what people are saying. Doesn’t mean that you’re going to take something out of every episode. I hope you do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]:
But you’re going to hear things. You’re going to be able to learn things from every person that’s on. That’s why every week I bring different people on, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to learn, to grow, to learn something a little bit new that you can put into that toolbox of your own. Now, today’s guest is Daryl Potter, a seasoned banker, published author, devoted father who spent nearly 30 years balancing demands of a high level career and the joys of challenging. The joys and challenges of raising both a neurodivergent child and a neurotypical one with grown children and a strong, enduring marriage. Darrell brings a unique blend of wisdom, humility, and heart to this parenting conversation. I’m really excited to be able to have him here, to be able to talk not only about his own experience in raising a daughter, but he also talks about the fact that he believes that parenting is storytelling both the stories we tell our kids and the ones we live ourselves. So today we’re going to be talking about that and delving a little bit deeper into the stories that we are sharing, but maybe the ones that we want to share as well and how we can better create stories to make us better parents in the end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:55]:
Darrell, thanks so much for being here today. I’m really excited.

Daryl Potter [00:02:59]:
Pleasure to meet you, Chris, and to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]:
We start our episodes with an opportunity to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. I said you have a daughter. And I guess one of the things that I want to know first is every father has a unique relationship with their kids. You have a unique relationship with your daughter. What is one of the most meaningful moments you’ve shared with your daughter and what made it so special?

Daryl Potter [00:03:24]:
I got 24 years of experiences to try to filter in a hurry. To be honest, the probably the best experience is really one of the first because it was formative for setting me up for the following almost quarter century. And that is I can remember we described when she first came home as it being like a baby honeymoon. And when you think about when you have a newborn daughter, she offers you nothing except noise when she’s hungry and smelly bits at certain times. And I can just remember those first few days of we’d take naps, my wife and I, in the afternoon and we’d settle her in beside us and I’m a little larger than my wife and and so she’d roll towards me and she’d wind up with her head pressed into my ribs, just quietly breathing to the rhythm a little quicker, but to the rhythm of my ribs. And I, I couldn’t fall asleep. I’d afraid of rolling over on her. And so we would just lay there.

Daryl Potter [00:04:15]:
She’d sleep and I would just feel her against me. And I think that’s been the I’d never had an experience like that in my life before, and it shaped the following 24 years because I recognized that I have to come to where you are right now. And at three days old, what she needed was a warm body to press against while she slept.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:36]:
Now, with our daughters, there’s always a balance. There’s a balance in being able to guide our daughters while also giving them independence and allowing them to grow into the people that they’re becoming. Talk to me about what you did to balance that for yourself.

Daryl Potter [00:04:54]:
So it’s interesting. I want to answer that question two ways because as you mentioned, I have A neurodivergent and a typical child. My son is the one who’s typical. So I’m a big believer that, you know, my wife and I have talked about we’re raising adults, not hobbies or reflections of ourselves or what have you. And so early on we had that really as a mindset to be thinking about the future as we transition through toddler to school to, you know, on and on. With our daughter, it’s quite different because she out intellectually, physically at about eight years old, her condition kicked in and more strongly and it’s a degenerative condition. So by age 12, she stopped talking. By age 14, she stopped walking, even with a walker and, and so on.

Daryl Potter [00:05:40]:
So the, a lot of, so it requires in, in her case, so much more deliberateness. But it’s the same philosophy as with our son. So as we, you know, for example, getting her dressed in the morning, it’s so important to let her choose her own socks. She can’t talk anymore, she can’t get around by herself. But we can bring to her a, a options and she can still pick. I want the pink ones today. You know, obviously with our, with our son it’s a, it’s a totally different, you know, game and, and I would love to have had the opportunity to do the same thing with a daughter because I think it’s so. It’s so needed in today’s society for females to be raised, for girls to be raised to be not adjuncts to the men in their lives, but to be their own person.

Daryl Potter [00:06:42]:
And as much as we can, we try to do that for our daughter. It’s just very difficult when she can’t even dress herself anymore. So it’s a different scenario.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:50]:
Definitely challenging. And I can only imagine, you know, trying to understand her needs and being able to truly be able to still build that bond while interpreting what is needed. So I guess in thinking about that, when as you said, she’s, she’s non verbal and she can’t do many of the things that like you said, your son can do. What are some intentional ways that you had to work and maybe you still are working today to continue to strengthen that bond with your daughter, especially during these challenges, the challenging times that you have.

Daryl Potter [00:07:36]:
Yeah, I think one of the challenges that certainly I was, I would have had going into fatherhood and I think I’ve observed around me in society, friends, what have you, is that I do think men, particularly when they start having children or at a life stage, career wise, marriage wise, personal maturity wise, very goal Oriented, very driven, whether it’s by, you know, family of origin issues or ambition issues or what have you. And there can be a really dangerous trap of missing moments, maybe even missing seasons. Our daughter was 10 days old when she we discovered that we had problems and we, we were event took a while to get a diagnosis. She essentially wasn’t supposed to live past age 3. Definitely wouldn’t make it into the teen years. The fact that she’s 24 makes her a bit miraculous. But what that did for me early on is I had those as I described moments few days old of like bliss and imagining the future. And you know, all I have to do is just lay here quietly and she’ll sleep to like literally a week later discovering she’s going to be gone before long, like weeks or months.

Daryl Potter [00:08:57]:
And it had, I think it could have many impacts denial or what have you. The effect it had on me was like reaching into my chest and just grabbing my heart and squeezing and I was like, I have to know you, I have to connect with you, I have to. You might not even live to language so I have to eye contact, physical touch. You must know that I love you and I must be able to read you before you’re gone. Now the little turkey wound up going on for almost 25 years now. And you know, so that was, that’s been false alarms every few days for 24 years, which is its own version of trauma. But it taught me how to be a better dad to my son as well, that need to learn focus. And I had a friend remind me of it actually quite explicitly maybe half a decade later in a situation where he reminded me, you know, they’re not going to be five forever.

Daryl Potter [00:10:00]:
A year from now you won’t have a five year old anymore. So if, if you want to get to know your five year old, one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:05]:
Of the questions that I guess that comes to mind is as you’re continuing to support and to help your daughter now into adulthood and doing what you can to be able to probably still push her, challenge her and help her in many different ways to be able to live the best life that she can, what’s one way that you consistently are showing your daughter that she can always count on you?

Daryl Potter [00:10:31]:
You know, you used the key word there is consistency. For her to be able to count on us and it applies to neurotypical children just as equally if not more for her to know that she can count on us, we have to be consist whether it’s sleep deprivation or moodiness or what have you an Inconsistent parent is an inconsistent reality when a child is very young. And that can lead to a very unstable understanding of how to trust, how to relate, how to read, how to enjoy. It can have really long reaching implications. And a child at 10 may start to become cynical if the parent is too unpredictable. On the other hand, a child at 10 can just become hopelessly enmeshed in trying to adapt in well meaning but ultimately unhealthy ways that have to be undone later in adulthood if they’re going to have healthy relationships. So I think that consistency is absolutely essential, obviously positive consistency, but being reliable in your engagement that even I think sometimes. For example, I got a buddy of mine who I did a lot of camping with, family camping, and he was great because he had two rules, no falling in the fire or drowning in the lake.

Daryl Potter [00:11:43]:
Like those were his two rules when he was camping. And you know, I think sometimes we make too many rules and then don’t enforce them. And so that’s a kind of inconsistency that can feel well meaning. But maybe we need to think, you know, maybe there’s more rules than just not falling in the fire or drowning in the lake. But you know, that’s not a bad target to, you know, especially when they’re really young to help them understand and then be consistent. Like seriously, thou shalt not fall in the fire. But maybe let tripping over the 10 peg go is not exactly a crime.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:27]:
Now, you know, I, one of the things that also comes to mind is as your kids get older, you, you mentioned earlier, you’re not trying to create a replica of yourself, but you inevitably, as your kids are growing, you have dreams for, you have ideas for them, you have a picture in your mind’s eye of where you think they may be and then the reality sits in of where they end up. It may be very different as, as we, we’ve heard in the story of your daughter as well. So in talk and thinking about who your daughter is now, who she was as she’s grown up, how do you, I’m going to use that word, consistency. How do you consistently support your daughter and helping her to pursue her passions and dreams even when she can’t speak or do some things that you know, she wants to do.

Daryl Potter [00:13:16]:
If you think about it, verbal or nonverbal, we learn a lot about what our children want by watching them. How old is a child before they start really talking in a way that really makes sense? We might say two, but is it, isn’t it closer to four before it’s like okay, now I’m really fully getting cognitive communication here. But we don’t wait till 2 or 4 to understand what they want. And I think a parent who’s paying very close attention is not just listening, they’re watching. They’re being sensitive to the non verbal cues that their child is giving. As a matter of fact, your child is more likely to tell you the truth and the most intimate parts of what they want to express non verbally when they tell you yes, but their body says no. Once they’re past age 4 or whatever the age is, you can start pulling on that thread a little bit and teaching them how to communicate, teaching them that it’s okay to express, you know, a negative emotion or what have you. So in terms of how to help them onwards towards their dreams, sometimes that’s just helping them understand it’s okay to verbalize those dreams.

Daryl Potter [00:14:27]:
So do you want to go with your friends to do such? No, no, no, I don’t want to do that. But why that tone? Why that body language? Why that? And maybe it’s not, we have to learn some parenting skills. Maybe it’s not a frontal assault to challenge what doesn’t sound like a totally forthcoming answer, you know, and then to discover there’s a rupture in the friendship, or there’s been a hesitation as to whether they feel like they have what it takes or maybe like you don’t want them to do such and such and to be able to draw that out in dialogue because, you know, we’ve had these sort of conversations with my son and engaging with my daughter where they want to do things that they’re not going to be allowed to do. But by teaching them that it’s okay to have the conversation and not be in trouble for wanting what they’re not allowed. And we can talk through it and there may be alternatives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:09]:
Now, I talked about the fact that you describe parenting as storytelling. What does that mean to you? And how has that idea shaped the way that you’ve raised your kids, especially your daughter?

Daryl Potter [00:15:20]:
One of the strongest ways, I think we first connected over a book that I’ve written, something more, Living well in a Broken World, that was published last year. Kind of a deep dive on the whole topic of storytelling as a process of unpacking. Call it the meaning of life, living well in a broken world. How to navigate the hungers and dissatisfactions and complexities of being an adult on a planet that doesn’t always do what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. And so for the storytelling Aspect both in the book and in life. We’re storytelling creatures. We remember stories. I could give you a whole list of facts, but if I gave you a brief story, you know, a week from now, you might.

Daryl Potter [00:15:59]:
You’ll remember none of my facts, but you’ll remember the story. And the book starts with one of my kids asking me a question that leads to a story which led to the writing of the book. I see it working in a couple different ways. One is for myself. What story do I tell myself about my stage of fatherhood, about where my kids are at, about my role in my kid’s life? How can I take the present moment and tell a story to myself about the future and where. If this was a. I’m a novelist on the side as well, so. So the, you know, how would this plot play out if my actions with my child today were the opening of chapter one? Where is this relationship going? Based on how Saturday afternoon’s conversation went, it’s also incredibly powerful as a parenting tool by telling stories about ourselves to our kids.

Daryl Potter [00:16:49]:
Our kids are fascinated by the fact that their adult parents used to not know how the world worked. Surprise. Kind of still don’t. But we used to not know at the level of a 7 year old or a 10 year old. And the mistakes we made, what we learned from them. They learn so much from that. They learn our biographies. They learn a little bit of their own identity because if they’re not adopted, they probably share some genetic traits that are similar.

Daryl Potter [00:17:14]:
They learn also humility by accident because they hear you tell how you tripped and fell and how you overcame a particular situation or how a bad choice led to some extra work. So the process of telling stories about ourselves is deeply interesting to children and deeply memorable. I can remember stories my parents have told that tell many, but I think I remember every one of them from their childhoods.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:38]:
So as you think about stories, what kind of stories did you find yourself telling intentionally or unintentionally as your kids grew up? How did those stories impact their sense of identity and belonging?

Daryl Potter [00:17:52]:
The stories that were told about self for the benefit of their growth. So that was quite explicit. One of the biggest stories we tell is the ones that are also non verbal. So for example, child messes something up at the table, knocks the glass of milk over and breaks the glass and kind of screws up dinner a little bit. You tell a remarkably impacting, potentially decades long impacting story by how you respond. Are they a stupid person for knocking the milk over? Are they lectured for I told you not to put the milk at the edge of the table that how many times have we had this conversation? Or are they oh, did any of that glass get on you? Don’t move. Let me make sure we get pick up the glass first. Just make them feel protected.

Daryl Potter [00:18:37]:
Or is it funny? Holy cow, you hit the dog. Like what story do you tell by your natural reactions? Now the challenge with those kind of stories is they’re often immediate and not thought out. And therefore my advice to dads is you gotta a therapy term would be to do your work. You’ve got to really kind of unpack a little bit of maybe self. If your immediate reactions to unpleasant events tell the story you’d actually don’t like that plot on There may be a little bit of work unrelated to even being a dad needing to be done before but even those situations can be fantastic self storytelling opportunities to realize ah, I don’t like that the milk got spilled and I made it about something negative. It’s just milk. If the kid’s done it five times this week, maybe it’s time to get them a plastic tumbler A little too quick out of the sippy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:26]:
Because I mentioned earlier and we’ve talked about this, that you’ve raised both a neurodivergent and a neurotypical child and that brings unique challenges. How did the story that you told yourself as a parent help you stay grounded and connected through those differences?

Daryl Potter [00:19:43]:
I’m going to slightly change your question or my answer, but I will touch on what you’re talking about because what I found was I had competing stories, particularly with my daughter, because I think society tells us stories. Some of them can be just quite negative and sexist in terms of she needs to be look a certain way, she needs to have a certain type of interaction model. A tomboy girl’s not acceptable, you know, what have you. But step beyond that. For a parent with a special needs child, there can be a story that some part of your psyche might tell yourself that you did this somehow or this somehow reflects on you like your child is your resume. And I was somehow didn’t produce a good one in terms of the society’s expectations of being tall and beautiful and smart and volleyball team and whatever is going on in your particular culture and neighborhood. So there’s a lot of competing stories that we have and then we have our family of origin stories in terms of what’s expected with the style of respect to grandparents or the type of clothes they wear or all sorts of things. There could be such a loud chorus of conflicting stories for us to filter through that.

Daryl Potter [00:20:54]:
Some of the most important story work I felt that occurred was the turning off everything and just learning what story matters to me and then learning to rewrite that story. So in my daughter’s case, when it became apparent that she wasn’t going to join the Olympics or the debate team, I needed to make sure that my story didn’t have Olympic athlete or verbal jiu jitsu star anywhere in my internal makeup. The end goal to the story of my daughter, this is her life, her health, her biology, and in the case of, of my typical child, I think more in terms of also their dreams and their specific intellectual gifts and so on. And I need to help them achieve their story, not play out one of the many, including some that might be just my own personal stories that I want them to wish fulfill.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:45]:
And thinking about that, I think sometimes we think of storytelling as something that we do for our kids. But how can dads listen for the stories that their daughters are trying to tell about themselves and the world around them?

Daryl Potter [00:22:04]:
I love that you asked that question because I really believe that sometimes and this doesn’t just apply to parenting, this applies to marriage and being a manager at work and whatever else. Honestly, in so many situations, loving comes down to listening. The time given to letting another human being know that you have my full attention. And this was true when my kids were young, before smartphones were a thing. I think it’s just heightened now in an era of smartphones to really know that I put that thing down and we have eye contact. In the case of my daughter, it also helps with physical contact. She responds very well when I’m with her. Sit cross legged in front of her and hold her hands.

Daryl Potter [00:22:43]:
She’ll let me know if she’s not in the mood for that today. But that bonding is so important to the sense of connection. Humans need to be listened to and children all the more. Prior to being your child, they didn’t exist. You are shaping their understanding of how reality, reality works and whether or not they matter in that reality. And that bank is being filled up one coin at a time with every second you give them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:08]:
Now, looking back, were there moments where you had to rewrite your parenting story? Maybe a time when you realized that the narrative you were living no longer served your daughter or your family 100%?

Daryl Potter [00:23:22]:
I would say there is at least an annual exercise like that, because my wife and I have described the whole process of parenting as being one long process of letting go. When a child is born, you decide everything they can cry if they want, but you’re still the one deciding if the bum gets changed or the tummy gets fed. The micromanaging control that a parent has at birth is just kind of bizarre. But by the time they’re 20, they should be adults. They should be able to, if they’re not in school, pay the rent if they are in school, show up to classes on their own and have a plan for the future. And not mom and dad’s plan. They should be having their own plans and putting those plans place. But the bridge from infancy to 20 can’t start at 18 or 12.

Daryl Potter [00:24:09]:
Our son got his first chores when he was 4 and a half or 5. So that every single year we have had to have a process of telling ourselves a new story of what parenting now means for this age group. And gradually, the way we phrased it is, is we would extend both privileges and responsibilities was how we packaged it. We would extend additional privileges, meaning like staying up later or food choices or whatever when they’re young. And responsibilities could be something essential, simple as taking the recycling to the garage or whatever, but pairing privileges and responsibilities together as the children advance through the years. So it’s not just a case of hey, I’m your chauffeur from 8 to 16 and then you’re on your own. But there’s a real intimate connection between their expanding maturity and their expanding responsibility. And that starts with parents telling themselves the story of they turned seven, I don’t have a six year old anymore.

Daryl Potter [00:25:03]:
What does talking to a seven year old sound like? Because if it sounds a lot like six not growing as a parent or helping them grow, and if I’m only responding to them, I’m probably going to eventually frustrate them and we’re going to get into some negative pushback come teen years if I’m always the one lagging as they grow.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:20]:
Very true. So we already mentioned your daughter’s 24, your son’s 21. Now that your children are grown, how do you see the stories that you told and lived echoed in the people that they’ve become? And what legacy do you hope that those stories leave behind?

Daryl Potter [00:25:36]:
Wonderful question. They are easier when we talk about my son because he’s neurotypical. But I think that it’s true for my daughter as well. They are more confident in themselves, in their place in the world, in their ability to navigate within the limitations of their life situations. My daughter being the one more limited. Of course, my son’s limits tend to be more economic because he’s in third year university. But as a result of that they always have known they are loved. They always have heard stories to learn from our mistakes so that they could avoid them.

Daryl Potter [00:26:11]:
We have worked very hard to not let that spilled milk be be an opportunity for verbal abuse or just using that as an illustrative example and letting them advance from age 6 to 7 and then making sure 8 looks different. The result is neither one of them are socially desperate. Neither one of them in the way that I would describe myself at that age or, or I think I can speak for my wife in terms of her background. Neither one of them are socially insecure. Neither one of them are I’ll speak more for my son now socially inept. My daughter’s. Well, she has seizures and stuff so that kind of screws up social interaction when you you throw that in with non verbal but the point is even with my daughter at times I look at her and I think you are more secure with us than I can ever remember being growing up and I know my wife could ever remember being growing up and she hasn’t been able to say a word to us for over a decade and I don’t know how much of what we say to her she fully understands anymore because there’s a cognitive decline there. Although she’s cheeky by nature.

Daryl Potter [00:27:13]:
So I think sometimes she pretends she doesn’t understand just she’s still got a personality. So I think that that process on the other side. First of all, parenting is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. Tied maybe for doing a decent job of marriage, fantastic. But requires a level of engagement that didn’t exist when I was a bachelor, it’s very satisfying to come out the other side and to see a lot of hard work pay off. Now when you’re dealing with a special needs child, payoff looks differently than it does on our son who’s going to head off to fourth year before long. But nevertheless payoff in emotional rewards and practical rewards as we see them develop.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:49]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Daryl Potter [00:28:01]:
Close.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:02]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you ever received?

Daryl Potter [00:28:05]:
When my son was in his Pokemon phase and one of my camping buddies took me aside and said you better learn to love Pokeman now or he will talk about it with his friends instead. And by the time he gets to 10 you will have trained him not to talk to you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:20]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Daryl Potter [00:28:23]:
Going for walks in the woods. Ever since she was a baby she’s loved trees and I’m a bonsai guy. So between the two of us, she might get that from me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Daryl Potter [00:28:33]:
Your mom and dad love you unconditionally and adore you. You don’t measure up to the mentioned the Olympics and the debate team. It doesn’t change our love for you for a second.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:45]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Daryl Potter [00:28:50]:
But love isn’t about what you get, it’s what you give. Infants teach you that, but so do 10 year olds when they’re a little self and you start to realize I love you anyways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:01]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Daryl Potter [00:29:09]:
Get down on their level, like literally sitting on the floor if they’re really young. Get that eye contact and learn to understand the human behind those eyes as opposed to society or our wishes or whatever else might impose between as a filter. Strip away the filters and learn the human. There’s so much to be discovered and behind a daughter’s eyes. And they will learn not to tell you who they really are. If you teach them that you only want to see the screen between but focus on who they really are. That’s magic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:45]:
Well, Darrell, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own ongoing journey that you’re if people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Daryl Potter [00:29:53]:
They can find me on my website, darrelpotter.com that’s a D A1R Y L.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:59]:
Potterlikeharry.com Again Daryl, thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for sharing your story and I wish you all the best.

Daryl Potter [00:30:06]:
Thank you Christopher. It’s been fantastic to talk to you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:30:39]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and musclemen get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Navigating Fatherhood: Lessons from Parenting Children with Disabilities

September 8, 2025 by dadofdivas

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Fatherhood is a journey filled with highs, lows, and countless unexpected turns—something this week’s episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection beautifully illustrates. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Steve Harris, author of Dads Like Us: A Survival Guide for Fathers Raising a Child with Disabilities, to share his personal story, hard-won wisdom, and practical advice for fathers facing one of life’s greatest challenges: raising a child with special needs.

From the very beginning, it’s clear this conversation isn’t just for dads of daughters or even just for dads of children with disabilities—it’s for anyone committed to being present, adaptable, and truly connected as a parent. Steve’s authenticity shines as he reflects on meaningful moments with his sons, the heartbreak and resilience of navigating medical crises, and the importance of simply “being there.”

One of the standout themes throughout the episode is the need for self-care as a caregiver. Steve reminds us that fathers, especially those facing long-term challenges, must take care of their own mental, emotional, and physical well-being. “The stronger we are as dads, the better dads we’re going to be,” he shares—a lesson learned through years spent in hospital rooms and therapy sessions.

The episode also tackles often unspoken emotions: grief for the future you envisioned, anger at situations you can’t fix, and loneliness when you feel pushed to the sidelines. Steve offers compassionate advice: acknowledge your feelings, reach out for help, and remember you are not alone. He encourages dads to stay involved, advocate for their children, and celebrate the unique gifts and victories—big or small—that each day brings.

Perhaps most poignant is Steve’s advice for those just starting this journey. In the first bewildering days after a diagnosis, he urges fathers to resist the urge to isolate, reach out to loved ones, and move through grief towards gratitude for the child in front of them.

For anyone on the path of parenthood—especially those facing extra challenges—this episode is a supportive, practical, and inspiring listen. Don’t miss it. Tune in to hear how showing up, adapting, and loving unconditionally shapes both father and child.

Listen to the full episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection wherever you get your podcasts, and discover more stories and resources at dadanddaughterconnection.com.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, to be able to become those fathers that we want to become for our children. And every week, we do that with an opportunity to be able to meet other dads, dads with different experiences that can share some of the things that they have learned to help you in the journey that you’re on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:
And it is a journey because every day is going to be a little bit different. Every day we have to work, work to build those relationships with our children. And it is important to be open to the idea and the thought that you have to put in the work. You’ve got to put in the work. You got to be willing to learn, to grow, to be able to be that dad that you want to be. And that’s why every week I come back and I know that you come back to be able to learn from other fathers. And today we got another great guest. Steve Harris is with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:49]:
And Steve is a father of two sons. And we’re going to be talking about the journey that he went on and a book that he wrote called Dads Like Us, A Survival Guide for Fathers Raising a Child With Disabilities. And we’re going to talk about his own journey. As I said, he had two sons. One of his sons has passed. And we’re going to talk about that journey with his own sons, as well as the book and some things that you might want to think about, especially if you’re raising a child with a disability. And I’m really looking forward to having him here today. Steve, thanks so much for being here.

Steve Harris [00:02:23]:
Well, thank you, Chris. It’s honor to be talking with you today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
Now, one of the things that I love doing at the very beginning is talking about you as a dad. And many times I talk to dads with daughters. You have sons. But many of the questions that I ask are very much related to just being a father. So I’m going to ask you some similar questions that I ask to dads with daughters, and we’ll go down that pathway. So as you think back to the time that you had with both of your sons, what’s one meaningful moment that you shared with them and what made it so special?

Steve Harris [00:02:55]:
Wow, there have been so many. I have two sons, Andrew, who’s now 37, and Matthew, who passed away, almost made it to his 40th birthday. So we had a long journey. And I can think of a moment with Matthew especially, I mean, comes to mind. First, sixth grade graduation. He had been able to be in school with a lot of special help and support from the teachers and paras there. They had a graduation ceremony. For some reason, Matthew was kind of verbal, not hugely verbal, but he could say things in moments that had a lot of meaning.

Steve Harris [00:03:24]:
They invited him to come up to the podium and address his rather large crowd. I was kind of nervous watching that all taking place, but Matthew wheeled up to the microphone, had a big smile on his face, and just said thank you. And for me, that was an amazing moment. It was very simple. Maybe to others it would not seem like a big deal, but the fact that he had made it in his life through all kinds of physical challenges and that he would sit there in his wheelchair and say thank you and be grateful. Wonderful person. Meant a ton to me that he did that. Andrew played a lot of, we call them handicapped sports, but adapted sports in high school, became the co captain of his adaptive soccer team.

Steve Harris [00:04:02]:
He was able to show some leadership and be a leader in a situation that was difficult. And I’m hugely proud of my boys. I’ll say that I’ve got a million moments like that, but those were two.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]:
As your sons got older and you continued to help to guide them in the journey that they were on and becoming the adults that they became. How did you balance guiding your sons while also giving them the independence that they needed to be able to grow into their own person?

Steve Harris [00:04:34]:
Well, the situation that they faced, they both had inherited a pretty, very rare genetic condition called Polysius Mersbacher disease. We didn’t know that right at first, but. And Matthew was also born with spina bifida. They had so many physical challenges and long hospital stays, and they’ve had a lifetime of tough stuff. I have tried to appreciate them as individual people, that they are unique persons, you know, made in the image of God, with a potential for their lives and trying to find out in lots of different ways what that potential could be, I guess. Chris, I’ve just tried to love them. I’ve tried to be there for them. I’ve tried to, through ups and downs, tried to show them that they are totally valuable, priceless people, as valuable as anybody else who walks the face of the earth.

Steve Harris [00:05:22]:
That they’re very special. And I can’t think of one exact strategy I had other than to hopefully be their loving dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:28]:
What are some intentional ways that you worked with your sons to strengthen that bond with them, especially during challenging times?

Steve Harris [00:05:35]:
Well, I guess number one would be being there. That sounds kind of simple, but the sad truth is that I talk about it in the book and stuff and other places that dads of kids who are disabled, they have a unique journey. It’s a tough journey. It means that we are. I don’t know if you agree with this, Chris, but I think dads are kind of wired to be the fixers and the protectors of our kids, definitely. So when we get into the life that we live as the dads of children with disabilities, most of the time we can’t be that. We can’t be the fixer, we can’t be the protector. And that can be frustrating.

Steve Harris [00:06:07]:
It creates all kind of different conflicts and emotions for us. But I’ve tried to be there for them. Again. A sad statistic is that many dads don’t stay involved in the lives of their kids when they are disabled, thankfully, as a small percentage. But just trying to hang in there. I think, number one, just being there has been a huge challenge and very important challenge for me in my life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:29]:
What would you say is a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive connections?

Steve Harris [00:06:37]:
Dads of kids who are disabled are caregivers. All dads are caregivers. But I think we’re given a challenge to be a caregiver over a long stretch of time. It takes a lot. And I think a mistake I made early is maybe not taking care of myself, not realizing that if I was going to be the best dad I could be. I’m talking about a situation where Matthew was in. Lived in an intensive care ward of a hospital for the first year of his life. It was a very stressful and demanding experience.

Steve Harris [00:07:06]:
It made it hard to live a really good, balanced life. And I think looking back, I should have taken better care of myself mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, right away. I. I think that sometimes in our quest to be great dads we may forget that we also have our own personal needs. And at times that sounds and feels selfish, and it sounds selfish to say that, but the stronger we are as dads, the better dads we’re going to be. That needs attention. It needs taking care of ourselves, making good choices. Sometimes in the crisis moments, that is very difficult to do, but I guess that’s one I would say.

Steve Harris [00:07:40]:
I’m sure there are others. I’m sure there are many, but I’ll mention that one right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:44]:
Now, I know you mentioned the book, and as I said at the beginning, you wrote a book called Dads Like Us, A Survival Guide for Fathers Raising a Child With Disabilities. And I guess first and foremost, before I delve too deep into the book itself, give me the origin story of this, because I’ve written a book myself. I know how much time, effort, passion goes into these passion projects. But tell me about the. The journey and what made you decide that you needed to tell this story and that you needed to get it out into the world.

Steve Harris [00:08:19]:
That’s a great question. It’s one that I have a Won’t say. It’s an easy answer, but I have an answer. My son Matthew, my first son, was born on October 13, 1980. It was a very exciting day in our lives. Our first child. Things in the hospital early on were just going beautifully, just perfect. When they discovered that Matthew had spina bifida, which is right away, things kind of came crashing down all of a sudden.

Steve Harris [00:08:43]:
Was in a very precarious situation. They didn’t know if he was going to make it out of the delivery room. Anyway. In that room was a number of nurses, but one of them, I noticed, was actually feeling quite excited and happy about the whole situation. And it struck me that she had that big smile on her face and she said, you know what? This is quite a coincidence. I’m taking a class on spina Bifida. Within about 20 minutes after they had rushed Matthew out of the room to take him by ambulance to another hospital for surgery, she came back to me and she said, do you remember I told you I’m taking that class on spina bifida? This is the textbook we have for that class. And she wanted to hand me this big, thick book and said, you might want to read this.

Steve Harris [00:09:22]:
My first reaction was a textbook on spina bifida. I don’t think I want to read it. I think I want to throw it at you right now, really, to be honest. But that moment, which was one moment of even a thousand of that day that I remember that moment planted a seed in me that what did I need at that moment as a dad, as a parent, to deal with the crisis that was unfolding for my son? It wasn’t a textbook. I am a writer. I have been writing stuff my whole life. But anyway, even in the first couple of months after that, I thought, there should be something for dads in those moments. And I started thinking about the need for.

Steve Harris [00:09:56]:
To write a book or a desire or whatever to write it. Now, it took me 40 years to pull it off because I kept trying and starting and stopping. And then I realized, you know what? Maybe I have to live this before I can write it. And that’s exactly what happened over the years. Just learned a lot, experienced a lot, met tons of people, had experiences with my sons, like we all do as dads. But these were all in kind of challenging settings. I thought, I am going to write that book someday. Because I read a statistic recently that said that dads who had spent a significant time with their kids in an intensive care unit, 50% of them said that they did not feel like they were getting the information or support that they needed.

Steve Harris [00:10:34]:
And I thought, I can relate to that because you’re in a brand new world right away. So what is it those dads, dads like me, could need? And so I said, I’m going to write a book. I want it to be brief. I want it to be practical. I want it to be like a positive conversation between me and another dad saying, these are the. Some of the things you’re going to face. Here are some of the ways that that will help. Here’s my story.

Steve Harris [00:10:57]:
It’s not a memoir, but it’s a lot of stories about my experience in those places. But basically to say, dad, you’re facing a unique challenge. Is it going to be tough? You’re going to make it. But here’s some practical advice as you head into that world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:10]:
And you said, it is a brief, practical book. It is. It is a brief and practical book. As I was in reading through the book, I know your book really does talk about grief. Not for the child that we have, but for the expectations that we lose. How can fathers process that sadness without feeling guilt or weakness?

Steve Harris [00:11:29]:
First thing I would say is, you are going to feel sad, you are going to feel grief. There’s no shame in that. There should not be an embarrassment for that. We love our kids. They mean the world to us. So to see your child going through surgeries and physical disabilities, mental disabilities, there’s just a ton of stuff to feel sad about. So I do feel sad. I will always have a sense of grief about it, but kind of move.

Steve Harris [00:11:51]:
Grief doesn’t go away. It evolves and changes. There’s a writer, James Autrey, in his book about gratitude, says there comes a point in time when you have to stop grieving the child who is not there and celebrating the child who is there. That was a powerful statement for me. It’s. It’s not a one time thing, but it’s letting go, realizing there’s going to be sadness. But you move on and love the child that you have. You’re sad because of some things that did not work out, sad for some dreams that never did come true.

Steve Harris [00:12:21]:
But you have a wonderful, precious child in your life as your child and you’re the dad who can love him for who he is. So I accept the sadness, deal with it and move ahead, I guess now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:33]:
Also in the book you write about the fact that many dads feel invisible in the care process. What advice do you have for dads who want to be more than just helpers, but who want to lead?

Steve Harris [00:12:47]:
Right. We need to be there. We need to be good advocates for our kids. I talk in the book about the fact that dads of kids with disabilities will watch a parade of people march through their life right from day one. Doctors, nurses, therapists, social workers, counselors, teachers, paraprofessionals. There’s just a parade. A lot, a lot of people come in. It is easy and I think there are some complicated reasons for this, but I think it’s easy for dads to kind of be pushed off to the side.

Steve Harris [00:13:13]:
There are times in the hospitals, for example, when, and I think there’s some natural stuff going on here that moms are seen as the basic primary caregiving, nurturer person. Dads don’t quite know where they fit in there. Sometimes the people are working with, the dads don’t know quite where they fit. My advice or encouragement that I wrote about in the book was to dads that say, don’t let that happen. Make sure you get at the front of that parade. Make sure you stay there. Make sure that you initiate communication with doctors and nurses that is needed. Make sure that people see you as active, involved and key caregiver in the situation.

Steve Harris [00:13:46]:
So yeah, my encouragement to all of us dads is to hang in, in there and, and stay involved at the front of all that’s happening with your child’s care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:55]:
What were some of the most unexpected or we’ll say joyful lessons that you learned from your sons. Maybe things that reshaped how you thought about parenting.

Steve Harris [00:14:07]:
Both of my boys have faced immense physical and mental challenges. The disease that they have is progressive. It’s incurable. It’s been a journey of learning to take one day at a time and enjoy each day and to be thankful and grateful for each day. Sometimes we want our kids to succeed. We want them to be, you know, the star athletes and the best students and getting the big scholarships. And we have dreams for our kids. My boys have taught me that more about what’s really important in life, what the priorities are in life, what’s.

Steve Harris [00:14:41]:
What are the most valuable things in life. I wrote a chapter in there about pride. You know, it’s. It’s different for dads like us. We find different things to be proud about, and yet we come away with a greater appreciation and love for our kids than we maybe we ever would have had before. One doctor told me that he said, you, son Matthew can’t do many things. He can’t walk, he can’t talk, he can’t eat normally. He can’t really.

Steve Harris [00:15:03]:
He can’t do many things, but one thing he can do is stay alive. And Matthew had a determined spirit, a courageous spirit through all those things and even, even above that, it was a spirit filled with smiles. He had a smile that melted the heart, heart of every nurse he ever met. I never once heard Matthew in nearly 40 years express any kind of bitterness or anger or early on when he had more mental capabilities. There was nothing negative coming from him. He was in many ways the most content person I ever met. And yet he was living in a situation that was incredibly difficult for him, with scores of operations and what we would call limitations. But he had a spirit in him that was incredible and it was amazing to watch.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:45]:
Now, the book also walks through some common emotions like anger, loneliness and fear. How can dads navigate those strong emotions without getting stuck or isolated?

Steve Harris [00:15:56]:
I would say again, number one would be just to acknowledge that they’re going to be there and you’re going to go through these different emotions. Don’t feel bad about that. Be aware of it. Don’t let them become destructive in your life. I think it means having a sense of. We’ll take anger, for example. I talk about sometimes get really quiet. They say that anger turned inward becomes depression, and that can happen.

Steve Harris [00:16:17]:
But there’s also dads who get angry and they have eruptions. They have. They have times when they just explode. And I compare it to volcanoes. They Say that the worst volcanoes are the ones that build up and build up and build up and then they finally blast. Whereas if there are volcanoes that kind of let off a little steam here and there, it’s actually better because it doesn’t build to a point that’s so destructive. I think with anger, that can be true if you keep squashing it down, squashing it down. And all of us get angry about different things.

Steve Harris [00:16:45]:
I think dads like us, we have situations in hospitals or with doctors and care decisions and things that kind of build up. But if we can learn to express some of the anger in really small doses, it’s better than waiting for some kind of a bigger explosion. That’s one example of one emotion.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:00]:
Now, you talked at the beginning of this about your reaction to your first son being born in the feelings that you were feeling. What’s your advice to dads who are listening, who just got the news that their child has a disability? What should they do in the first 24 to 48 hours?

Steve Harris [00:17:20]:
That’s such a great question. And that’s exactly why I’m thankful that it worked out that this book got written, because those first 24 hours, that first week is really crucial. So thank you for asking that question. What I would do if I was back there today, if today was day one, I would fight through the temptation that comes to isolate, to pull back. Sometimes there’s such a swirl of emotions that you really can’t function. You’re kind of in a mental. Mental fog. Take a breath, make sure that you’re, you’re.

Steve Harris [00:17:48]:
You fight through the. Any temptation you have to isolate, talk to your wife, talk to people that you have that you’re close to. Make sure that you make some connection with them. You’re going to need people, and yet it comes at a point when you start to push them away. And that’s a dangerous point. So I would say, number one, pray. Number two, connect with the people that you love who will be there to support you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:11]:
Now you close your book with gratitude and pride. What would you say now to your younger self sitting alone in that hospital waiting room?

Steve Harris [00:18:20]:
I’d say you are walking into a world that you do not, did not expect. You had hopes and dreams of having the normal kids that everybody else seems to have. That’s not going to be true for you. For whatever reasons and however life works, that’s just the reality of it. So face that reality and it will be difficult. And it’s not a one day, one week, one month process. It will be kind of a lifetime of adjustments. But face the reality, but also be aware that you are being in invited into a parenting experience that will change you in wonderful ways, that will open doors to wonderful relationships.

Steve Harris [00:18:57]:
It is not. Well, I’ll quote, I’m sure that others who know about this stuff know this, but Emily Kingsley Pearl, welcome to Holland. Are you aware of welcome to Holland, Chris?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:08]:
I’m not. Tell me more about that.

Steve Harris [00:19:09]:
Okay. She was one of the original writers in Of Sesame Street. She wrote an analogy, apologies, probably 30, 40 years ago now, called welcome to Holland. And the idea is that parents who are having a child, it’s kind of like they’re getting a dream vacation to Italy. And so they get on the plane, they’re all excited, you know, prepared to enjoy Italy. The plane lands, the announcement comes over the loudspeaker, and they say, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to Holland. And the parent sitting there says, well, wait a minute, I didn’t expect to be in Holland.

Steve Harris [00:19:39]:
I’m going to Italy. And also, you find out you’re in Holland, you are in a place that you did not expect. You’re not prepared for it. And she said, okay, be disorienting. You can be angry about it, you can be frustrated. But she said, as you are in Holland, all of a sudden, there are challenges to it. It’s got new languages and new experiences you didn’t expect. But as you are there, you’re also finding out that Holland has Rembrandt and Holland has tulips and Holland has all kinds of joys and things that you did not expect and you did not prepare for, even think about.

Steve Harris [00:20:08]:
But there you are in this new place and you can enjoy Holland. That analogy has helped many people. It helped me early on to realize that, no, I wasn’t in the place expected to be as a dad. I was in a world that presented all kinds of challenges. But over time, given time, and there are good days and bad days, but you realize that the life I’m living as a dad right now with my kids, with my two sons who are disabled, it’s an amazing, wonderful, rich, rich life. It takes you to places you didn’t want to go, maybe, but you’re very grateful that you went there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:41]:
Now, if people want to find out more about the book, where should they go?

Steve Harris [00:20:43]:
Well, I have a website, www.steve harris author. They can look me up there. It’s also on Amazon and other places. If they want to contact me directly, I’ll send them a book. You know my dream about this book. Early on, this is probably naive. This was not about book writing thing. I wanted to just be handing these books out.

Steve Harris [00:21:02]:
And my dream still is to have this book in every hospital in America because I think it’s a book for dads to read and for moms and family members. But I really hope that doctors and nurses, social workers and teachers and chaplains and counselors will read this book because they’re working with these men, they’re working with these families and these kids. I would love to see the sensitivity heightened about what these families are going through so that they’ll be supported because ultimately it supports the kid. A strong dad is going to be a better dad. And our kids are going to need all kinds of support to reach the potential that they have for their lives. A dad as important as any of them in that group of people who are helping. But I hope that the book gets read by all kinds of people out there, but especially by dads, of course. And I do hope that they’ll be passing them out in hospital rooms across America.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:53]:
Now. We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, which is an opportunity to get to know you a little bit more as a dad. Are you ready?

Steve Harris [00:22:01]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:01]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your sons?

Steve Harris [00:22:05]:
Playful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:06]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you ever received?

Steve Harris [00:22:10]:
Be there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:11]:
What’s one activity that you and your sons love or love doing together?

Steve Harris [00:22:18]:
Wrestling on the living room floor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:19]:
If you could give your son one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Steve Harris [00:22:24]:
Be grateful and have faith in better things to come.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Steve Harris [00:22:31]:
I would say I have learned and am learning that I need not a great dad. I need help. And I guess learning to reach out for that help, that’s a longer answer. But learn to reach out for the help that you need for the challenges in front of you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:44]:
What advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful, meaningful relationship with their kids?

Steve Harris [00:22:51]:
Appreciate them for the unique individual that they are, that every day is new. You kind of said that in your opening introduction there. That every day is new. We grow, we change, they grow, they change. And be aware of that and connect with that each day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:05]:
Well, Steve, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story, for letting us get to know your sons in a little bit different ways, and also for the book that you’ve created to help help other fathers that are raising children with disabilities to be able to help them to know that they’re not alone, but also to help them to negap to navigate the journey that they’re going to be on in a very practical way. We’ll make sure to put a link in the notes today to make sure that people know how to get access to that, but I truly want to say thank you and I wish you all the best.

Steve Harris [00:23:41]:
Well, thank you very much, Chris. It’s a pleasure to meet you today and thank you for letting me share my story.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:45]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:24:16]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Connection Before Correction: Building Strong Parent-Child Bonds with Eran Magen

July 14, 2025 by dadofdivas

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Parenting is a continual journey, one that evolves as our children grow and as we, too, learn new ways to connect with them. This week on the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Eran Magen—father, relationship expert, and creator of the Parenting for Humans and Divorcing Dads resources—for a heartfelt and refreshingly honest conversation about fatherhood, connection, and resilience.

Presence Over Perfection

One of the central themes of the episode is the power of presence. Eran shares that being fully present—and putting away distractions, especially digital ones—lays the groundwork for genuine connection. Whether through playful activities like acro yoga or watching a favorite show together, the focus isn’t on orchestrating perfect moments, but on truly showing up for our kids, time and time again.

Respect and Emotional Safety

Eran emphasizes treating children with deep respect, validating their feelings, and giving them true space to express themselves. Instead of rushing to fix problems or dismissing their emotions, he advocates for really listening—even paraphrasing back what they’ve shared—to make sure they feel heard and understood. This builds not only trust but helps children develop a positive, self-compassionate inner voice that stays with them for life.

Connection Before Correction

Drawing from his work at ParentingForHumans.com, Eran introduces the concept of prioritizing connection over correction. When the bond between parent and child is strong, discipline becomes less about control and more about collaboration. It’s about building relational habits—like kindness, presence, and respect—into everyday life, so that challenges are easier to navigate when they arise.

Navigating Divorce and Co-Parenting

For fathers navigating separation or divorce, Eran offers wisdom and hope. He urges dads not to let shame or fear of disconnection hold them back from seeking support, or from fighting for meaningful time with their children. Even in limited circumstances, quality of presence trumps quantity—being truly engaged makes all the difference.

Whether you’re a dad seeking fresh ideas, a parent amid big transitions, or simply someone passionate about fostering strong family relationships, this episode is an inspiring listen. Tune in for practical tips, honest stories, and compassionate advice that will help you nurture lasting bonds—one present moment at a time.

Ready to be inspired? Listen now to the full conversation on the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast!

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love being able to talk to you about this connection that you want to build with your daughters. And we do that every week because it is a process. This journey that you’re on is going to be one where you’re going to have to learn, you’re going to have to grow, you’re going to have to be willing to be open to finding new ways to build that relationship day by day. Because as your daughter grows, you can’t just think that one way of doing things is going to happen and stay the same. You got to keep adjusting and being there, being engaged and helping your daughter one step at a time and being engaged and connected to your daughter in so many ways throughout their life. That being said, that’s why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences to help you along this journey, to give you some tools for your toolbox and to allow for you the opportunity to learn and grow, to be able to find new ways to build those stronger connections and to leave every episode with an opportunity to be able to start something new from the end of that episode on. This week we got another great guest. Dr.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]:
Aran McGinn is with us today. And Aron is someone that, as he says, he believes in relationships, believes in people and helps people to have better relationships. Perfect fit for you as a dad with a daughter. He’s also a father of a son, so we’re going to be talking about his own journey being a father. He’s been working with individuals for quite a few years and most recently he’s been created two new resources that are definitely going to help you as a dad. He has a site by the name of Parenting for Humans as well as divorcingdads.org we’re going to talk about both of these resources and some things that may help you along the way, depending on your own situation and where you’re at. And I’m really excited to have him here today. Aron, thanks so much for being here.

Eran Magen [00:02:18]:
My great pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]:
Well, it is my pleasure having you here. And as I said, you are a father of a son and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit into you as a dad to get to know you and your own journey. I guess as you think back to the time that you’ve had with your son thus far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with him and what made it so special?

Eran Magen [00:02:41]:
I’m glad you want to talk about my son, because it’s my favorite topic. And, you know, if we don’t watch ourselves, we’re going to have the podcast equivalent of me showing you every photo of my son except an audio version that I have. I’m. I’m one of those people. There are a lot of good moments. The most recent, I’ll go with the most recent that, like, stood out to me, which was really fun. And then I’m happy to scan backwards, if you want, and come up with even better ones. I do a thing called acro yoga, and Acroyoga has very little to do with yoga and more to do.

Eran Magen [00:03:04]:
Like, sometimes people call it partner acrobatics. It’s when. When people balance on each other. And a lot of parents do this with their kids, right? The parent lies down on his or her back, and the kid is on the parent’s feet, sort of belly down, arms forward, Superman, right? Like, we. We all do this with our kids, but it gets much more sophisticated, and you can do many more interesting things. People can sit on other people or stand on other people or flip around on other people and so on. And you can do it with grownups, and you can do it with kids, obviously. And it’s easier with kids because they’re little, alert.

Eran Magen [00:03:31]:
And so this is something that I’ve been doing with my son since he was little, and we do it a little bit. I kind of wish he was super into it and he’s kind of into it, but he’s the most into it when he can show off to other people, when it’s just the two of us. He’s like, I don’t know if I need to do it right now. But we were playing soccer in his school after I picked him up, and we’re playing with another kid that often plays with us there. And then my son went off and did something else. And in the meantime, I was doing some acro yoga with this other kid, introducing him to it, and his mom, who was there and consented to the whole thing. And my son ran back and really wanted to do some acro to show the other kid that he knows more. That was very motivating for him.

Eran Magen [00:04:06]:
And then we did, and it was fun. But then the next day we came out, and it was sort of the first day of spring here in Connecticut, and we. We just stepped out to the yard, and out of nowhere, my son says, dad, do you want to do some acro yoga? Do you want to practice? And my heart just Expanded. It was just so nice because he, he, you know, I didn’t suggest it, I never mentioned it, but it was sort of back on his mind. And it’s just so nice to feel like our kids are into things that we’re into and they want to spend time together doing those things. That was a really fun moment, but they’re just thousands of these stories. This is the most recent. I keep a spreadsheet that I made when he was born.

Eran Magen [00:04:36]:
When he was born, I did two things. I created an email inbox for him, which I occasionally write to things that I can’t say now that he wouldn’t understand. So I write stuff that I want to tell him, letters for later, and I’ll give him the login credentials when he’s. Or 18 or something. And the other thing I did is start this spreadsheet called Milestones and Memories and First Times. And I just sit down and write stuff that happened every once in a while. So I have like this long list that I can go through and see the things that were exciting for me. When he was 2, when he was 4, when he was 6.

Eran Magen [00:05:04]:
It’s really fun. And this is one of those moments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:06]:
As your son is getting older and you are trying to guide him and work to be able to mold and meld him into the adult that he is becoming, how do you balance guiding your son while also giving him the independence to grow into his own person?

Eran Magen [00:05:23]:
I think my job is mostly to provide kind of safety and nourishment and let him grow where he grows. I’m not trying too hard to move him one way or another. I’m vegan, for example. I don’t insist on him being vegan. Not my job, not his problem. I keep my home vegan because it’s more comfortable for me. But if he really wants to bring something into that, we’re in the supermarket and we’ll buy stuff and he really wants to get something that isn’t, that’s fine. Then we will.

Eran Magen [00:05:47]:
Certainly, if we’re out in the world and he wants to get something or word a party and he wants to eat a thing, everybody eating totally fine. And so I’m not trying exactly to mold him into anything. I’m trying to provide good supports for him as he grows into things. There’s a little bit of a gray line, right? Because if I see him kind of starting to spin out about something, be really anxious about something in a way that I think is not necessary, I’ll try to help him figure out ways to not be upset about it. And so is that molding? I sometimes ask myself. Yeah, but it feels very kind of benevolent and not coercive. You know, this. This feels more like me removing roadblocks than forcing him to go down a specific path.

Eran Magen [00:06:24]:
And so I really think there are many ways to describe the job of parent, and many people have lots of ideas about what those jobs are. I think they’re probably all true. I think one of the most important parts of being a parent, one of the most important jobs, is creating the voice that kids have inside their head, how they talk to themselves, because that voice will stay on for many, many years. And changing that voice requires a huge amount of therapy. And so that, to me, is a very, very important part of what I think about as a parent. How I hear him talking to himself and helping him adjust that voice. I’m not trying to tell that voice what to tell him to do. Right.

Eran Magen [00:06:56]:
It’s more how he relates to himself. So in a real sense, one of my primary jobs is making sure he has a good relationship with himself. What he grows up to be is up to him.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:04]:
What are some intentional ways you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your son, especially during challenging times?

Eran Magen [00:07:11]:
I would divide the ways into two big categories. I think one is just helpful habits, and the other is maybe specific events or specific things in time. The most important habit by far is bringing my full presence. Right. My phone is away. My phone is often on do not disturb. It’s 100% focus on him when I’m with him. And I think that makes an enormous difference.

Eran Magen [00:07:31]:
He’s not orbiting. We do stuff together. And when we’re not doing stuff together, then we’re not. Then we’re doing stuff separately. But if we are connecting, I’m fully there. I’m not splitting my attention. And I think that’s enormously important. The other thing that I do, I don’t want to make it sound like I am the first person to do this or the first to have thought about it, but I just think it’s so important, is I communicate with him with great respect.

Eran Magen [00:07:55]:
I treat him as a person, not as a soldier or a servant or an ignorant person or any of those things. If he has a question or if he has a thought, we really discuss it for as long as he wants to, basically. And when I see that he’s starting to look in different directions and is getting antsy, then we’ll go do something else. Like, we don’t have to belabor the point, but really taking Very seriously. His thoughts, his questions, his ideas, his opinions, they really count. So these are all things that I would put in the relational habits bucket in terms of the, like, more specific things that I do to strengthen the bond. We really do a lot of this stuff together. So for example, videos, YouTube, you know, or shows on Netflix or whatever, we watch those things together and we’ll talk about them.

Eran Magen [00:08:37]:
It’s a big part of what we talk about later. And I think it’s helpful to help him process and understand what he saw and what his opinion is and whatever. But I don’t just like send him off to watch a thing and then we do our next thing. A lot of this kind of activity is something that, that we’ll do together and it creates a huge amount of shared language and shared jokes and shared things. We also do just a lot of activities together. I’m into a lot of stuff and I’ll offer these things to him and if it’s of interest to him, then we’ll do it and we’ll go, you know, ice skating or practice proto jiu jitsu on the carpet or cook together or whatever, whatever it is. But a lot of time and a lot of shared activities. So I think this combination of doing lots of stuff that we both enjoy together and being very respectful of his preferences and opinions and thoughts and questions and ideas, and interacting him as though he’s an actual person and not less of a person than I am.

Eran Magen [00:09:26]:
These are probably the main columns supporting the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:29]:
What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection?

Eran Magen [00:09:37]:
There are a couple of things. I remember where I noticed my son having difficulties with some things. And I thought, ah, the world will correct this. I don’t need to step in. And that’s sort of a, I don’t know, call it like a general tendency that I have. I guess in some contexts it’s good, in some contexts it’s bad but. Or helpful and unhelpful rather. I guess.

Eran Magen [00:09:53]:
But I tend to wait until stepping in and intervening with something and often that’s a good thing. Like, you know, a lot of parents are really worried about their kids still using a pacifier when they’re X months old or. And I’ve never seen a kid in college with a pacifier in his mouth. You know, like these things tend to work themselves out, but people can get super worried. And so I’m usually of the opinion that like the world will fix this. We just give it time and this will work out. But there are some things where he really had difficulty, and I waited too long to step in and do what I would consider a more significant intervention. Right.

Eran Magen [00:10:27]:
Like some kinds of. I want to be mindful of my son’s privacy as well, because in 60 years, when he chooses to do something, or in 40 years or 20 years, you know, somebody digs up, the podcast says, oh, you used to do this thing. So I’m actually. I’m very mindful of the privacy of kids in sessions that I do, including, I guess, when I’m interviewed. This is the first time that I’m talking about this. But he had some social challenges that he was going through and were noticeable to me. And I thought, oh, the world will polish this off. This will be okay.

Eran Magen [00:10:53]:
And I think it was like, it. It required some sort of a more thoughtful, intentional intervention that eventually the school recommended, and then we did. And I think it’s been very helpful and not. Not too hard. We didn’t catch it super late. Like, no crisis resulted, but I could have done it earlier. I felt sad for not doing it, because it just would have made, I think, life a little easier for him during those, I don’t know, two, three years. And now there’s something that there’s a pathway that got laid down that was not the most helpful.

Eran Magen [00:11:20]:
And changing something and undoing something is always harder than it is just correcting course earlier on. So I don’t know if this is exactly answering your question in terms of, like, a relational mistake, but this is a parenting mistake that I feel that I made and learned from.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:33]:
No, it definitely does. And I think that, I mean, learning that is definitely something that all of us have to do along the way as well. Is there anything that you intentionally do to make your son feel valued and heard?

Eran Magen [00:11:45]:
There are a few things that I do. And really, a lot of how I relate to my son is in service of making him feel valued and heard. And so I’m trying to pick out the more specific things that I do because a lot of this is on my mind, kind of ongoing. How do I make sure that he feels like he has a voice? And so a few things that I can say when he’s upset about something. I remember this when he was two, and I remember this two weeks ago when he was seven and a half. I don’t shut down the upset. I spend some time, a good deal of time, letting him express the upset, and I’m still comforting him during the process. But I don’t say it’s not a problem.

Eran Magen [00:12:19]:
I don’t say, you know, stop crying. I don’t say, you know, I ask him to explain what happened and what was so upsetting. And I’ll kind of sit in it with him and I’ll paraphrase and say it back and so on. But I’m not trying to shut it down or fix it too quickly. And I think that’s really important because I’ve seen him develop this habit of as a result, I believe, of when something upsetting or surprising or scary happens, he’ll have the reaction, but then he’ll narrate the process back to me and sort of calm himself down as he more or less immediately gains an understanding of this story and what made him upset. I think that’s been really useful. But I think just in general, it’s a nice thing for people to do with one another, right? Not shut down the upset, but rather sit with it for a little bit and sit in it together. His opinions really matter.

Eran Magen [00:12:57]:
If he suggests things that didn’t occur to me, I’ll consider them really seriously. He’s at this point, he’s suggested some ideas for not just ways to spend a day, but like a vacation destination or a totally new activity that we’ve never done that he just heard about from a friend, and that becomes a real thing. We’ll research it together a little bit, and if it seems appealing, we’ll go and give it a try. So he really gets to to lead when he wants to, or at least suggest directions, and then I’ll operationalize it. But he has a real voice and a real say in how we spend time individually and as a family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:30]:
Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you have a few different resources that are available. You have your parentingforhumans.com website as well as divorcingdads.org and both of those were created not only to help others like yourself that were going through similar things, but also in your work and your engagement with people and seeing the need. You expanded that. And there are a couple of questions that came up when I looked at both of these sites. And I think first and foremost, when I was looking@parentingforhumans.com, your site emphasizes connection before correction. Can you explain what that means and why it’s so crucial for parents, especially fathers?

Eran Magen [00:14:12]:
It’s my strong belief and also my consistent observation that when the relationship between a parent and a child is good, everything is easy. There’s just not the constant conflict. There’s not the badgering. Do this now, like I told you a thousand times, things are just easy and smooth. And when people have a stronger relationship, then there’s more trust and there’s more willingness to be vulnerable and honest on both sides. And there’s more forgiveness and there’s more cooperation. And so spending time just laying the foundations and having a good relationship just preempts and prevents all these negative things that then need to get corrected. It’s sort of like living a life and eating well and doing a reasonable amount of exercise and sleeping enough, socializing and having enough fun, and then you just have to deal with a lot less, fixing medical problems.

Eran Magen [00:14:57]:
Right. They just tend to happen. And I think it’s very much like that in relationships too. Just spending time building a strong relationship rather than relying on occasional forceful corrections which leave everybody, I think, unhappy, basically. And for a lot of people growing up, the role of the dad is often as the disciplinarian. At least that’s the caricature. I’m not totally sure that that’s always true or even true the majority of the time. I know a lot of soft dads, and I know a lot of harsh moms, and I know a lot of harsh dads and a lot of soft moms.

Eran Magen [00:15:26]:
But I do think that a lot of men, certainly from the past three generations, grew up not being taught how to show affection in a soft way and how to connect in a way that feels warm and comfortable and consistent, as opposed to occasionally dropping in and doing some big gesture, but in the meantime being sort of cold or reserved or stoic. And when you don’t have a strong relationship, inevitably things start, start sliding and then you need big corrections to happen, which I think damage the relationship further. So I’m a big, big believer of creating that foundation of just a strong relationship through good daily, call it relational hygiene, just developing good relational habits. Things that we do without thinking over the course of the day as, as a habit that we, we adopt. And through that, strengthening the relationship constantly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:13]:
Now, many parents want to be more supportive, but fall into that problem solving mode. How can dads become better listeners and emotionally attuned to their kids?

Eran Magen [00:16:23]:
There’s one technique that I think is magic and keeps us safe. It keeps us from making these kinds of relational mistakes. And the technique is not only magic, but also super simple, which is what’s so nice about it, which is paraphrasing. Learn to say back what the other person said to you. And the, the thought behind it is the thought we want to have behind it when we’re paraphrasing. Is, am I understanding your experience correctly? Just that, right? So our kids come in, our kid comes in and looking, you know, unhappy. And we say, what’s going on? And kid is in a sharing mood that day. And she says, oh, my friend Jessica is being a pain at school.

Eran Magen [00:16:59]:
And so to be able to say in our heads, huh, let’s see if I understand correctly my kid’s experience and saying, so Jessica is being mean to you because that’s what we understood. And then our kid might say, no, no, she’s not being mean to me. She’s being super nice to me. But I know that behind my back she, blah, blah, whether we get it right or we get it wrong, it doesn’t matter. Just putting herself in a position and in kind of a mental stance of trying to understand our child, child. And all we need to do is say back what we heard. We don’t need to interrogate, we certainly don’t need to diagnose, definitely not give advice. Just getting in the habit of when our kid looks upset to just once, just for one turn, try to paraphrase, try to say back what we understood.

Eran Magen [00:17:40]:
And seeing what happens. And very often they will share more and more. And it’s kind of amazing because parents often feel like their kids, once they hit a certain age, will not share with them anymore. But if we’re not trying to shape their experience, they want to be heard, right? And as we build trust with them, they share more and more. So if I could suggest one single thing, which I think is what you, you were asking me to do, I would say try paraphrasing once as the first thing you do in a conversation and see what happens. And then if you can, keep on paraphrasing as they continue talking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:07]:
Now, you also talk about emotional safety and parent child relationships. What are some simple everyday ways fathers can do that?

Eran Magen [00:18:15]:
So I’ll continue a little bit from my previous answer and then I’ll give a couple of other things. The huge power of paraphrasing comes not just from having the child correct you yes or no, but we’re showing so much when we’re trying to check if we understand the child’s experience right. We’re showing that we want to know. We’re showing that we’re not judging and we’re not taking charge of the conversation. We’re letting the child lead. We’re showing that we’re curious about the child’s experience and validated. There’s just so much power there. And we do all this pretty Implicitly, through the process of paraphrasing.

Eran Magen [00:18:44]:
I think also doing it explicitly is very, very important. So a lot of us grew up not seeing examples of. Well, some of us just grew up without having people around us saying, I love you or I care about you or any of those things. And then we feel awkward saying them ourselves to other people. And likewise, maybe we never saw examples of people saying something like, your happiness is the most important thing for me, or I really care about how you feel, and I want to know what. What could make things better for you, in your opinion or any. Any of those things. And I think that the assumption of telepathy, or the hope of telepathy, silent relationship killer, including between parents and kids.

Eran Magen [00:19:22]:
Right? Because we know parents occasionally will say in anger, everything I do, I do for you. How could you possibly think that I don’t care? And usually when it’s done in anger, it happens because it’s. It’s too late into the process. And the kid really didn’t understand. The kid really didn’t see it. And being able to verbalize it earlier is so important. So I think getting into the habit of telling our kids, not in anger, but in great warmth and happiness to say, I’m so happy to see you happy. Let’s say something good happened.

Eran Magen [00:19:48]:
Our kid, you know, did something that our kid feels good about. And to say, this is awesome. I’m so glad to see you so happy. You know, I love seeing you happy like this. Like, just remembering to say these things rather than just say, good job, you know, punch in the shoulder, move on with our day. It’s so important to verbalize it. And when our kid is upset to say, I can see you’re upset, you know, and I really want to help you solve it. Or if our kid says, I really want to get into band at school.

Eran Magen [00:20:11]:
And then two days later, we realized that it would be a good idea for a kid to spend more time practicing the oboe or. Or whatever it is using to get into band. And to say, not just, I think you should be practicing your oboe. Like, if you want to get into band, I think you should just. But to lead with. I remember a couple days ago, we were talking about how much you want to get into band. And their kid goes, yeah. And we say, you know, I.

Eran Magen [00:20:31]:
I want to see you achieving your goals, right? I want to see you happy and doing things you want to do. And it looks like band is one of those things. And. And I was thinking about ways, you know, things you could do or we could do to help you get into band. Do you want to talk about this? Do you want to hear what I’m thinking? Right. But just being explicit about our goodwill toward our child, ridiculous as it sounds to many parents, is so important because the kids don’t know. How would they know this is their first time around. Right.

Eran Magen [00:20:54]:
We’re just. We’re expl. Expecting them to know all these things that they. They might not. And so being explicit about our goodwill toward our kids is enormously important. So that’s one thing. And the second thing I’ll say much more briefly is remembering to be present is number one, to be nice is number two, and to be respectful is number three. So being present, I talked about this already.

Eran Magen [00:21:13]:
Just actually having times when are dedicated to our kids and everything else on the side. Being nice. By being nice, I mean remembering to actually say thank you, remembering to praise, remembering to tell them how good we feel when we’re around them or we see that they did certain things. These are all so important and don’t happen often. And then number three, in terms of being respectful, I touched on this before. Treating them like we would treat people who are farther from us, like we would treat colleagues in terms of the level of respect. So not just kind of waving your hand at them when it’s time for them to leave or do a thing, but actually turning our body and looking at them and saying, why don’t you? Blah, blah, blah, or would you please? Or things like that, instead of shouting instructions from a distance, coming over and speaking with them and saying about the things that we want them to do. So being present, being kind, being respectful goes an extremely long way in just developing habits around that into our daily behavioral, relational repertoire.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:05]:
Now, I mentioned that you have another resource called divorcing dads.org and I know that you created that not only for yourself, but for others that are going, that went through or are going through divorce and what they can do to be able to not only stay connected to their child, but be advocates for their child, etcetera, etcetera. And I know that divorce can bring a sense of failure or shame. When I’ve talked to dads that have gone through this in the past, that’s definitely the case. What’s the first mindset shift that you encourage fathers to make when they go through a separation?

Eran Magen [00:22:39]:
I think the very first act to do when going through a separation is to connect with support. Like you said, a lot of people are blocked because they feel ashamed of what’s happening, whether or not they Feel it’s their fault. They feel like this is a shameful thing and not to discuss or they don’t want to talk about it with other people. It’s very common. I agree. But to connect with support is step one. Step one is not to eliminate the shame or remove the shame. That can take a long time.

Eran Magen [00:23:01]:
Connect with support anyway, right? Just going to deal with the shame. You don’t have to change it right away. We do want to change it later on. But step one, by far the most important thing, connect with support. Friends, family, people who care about you, counseling, faith leaders, you know, a hotline, whatever it is. But just connect with somebody. Start getting support. Don’t, you know, sit alone in your dark home despairing.

Eran Magen [00:23:23]:
That road leads to very bad places. Just immediately reach out and connect with support.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:27]:
Now I know that in looking at your site you’ve said that co parenting is more like being co workers than ex lovers. How can dads adopt a more businesslike approach to parenting with an ex without sacrificing empathy or communication?

Eran Magen [00:23:44]:
There are many flavors of co parenting, you know, depending on how the separation and divorce happen. I know co parents who used to be be romantic partners. They have a very good relationship and it’s very easy and fluid and supportive and friendly and that’s wonderful. And I think that’s ideal. And sometimes that doesn’t happen, right? Sometimes there’s neutral at best relationships or sometimes there’s a lot of bitterness and hostility and stress. And still things need to happen, right? Decisions need to happen about the kids. Logistics do need to be coordinated one, one way or another. So what I’m going to say now, I’m referring to these more high tension in or more conflict ridden relationships.

Eran Magen [00:24:19]:
Not the super friendly. If it’s super friendly then, then great, be super friendly. You don’t need to force collegial relationship on a friendship. If there’s a friendship there, that’s ideal, that’s wonderful. But if there isn’t, how do we still communicate? So tension will rise as conflict rises. Anything we can do to reduce conflict, I think is worth doing. And you know what, I’ll take another little detour here. There’s this, I think myth floating around that kids are hurt by divorce.

Eran Magen [00:24:40]:
The divorce is bad for kids. That’s not the case. What’s bad for kids is being exposed to parental conflict whether or not the parents are married or divorced. And you can see this easily in very bad relationships where people stay together. The kids have a very difficult time and will carry that difficult time for a long time and divorces that are friendly and cooperative and work well, the kids are doing fine later on, it’s so important to insulate the kids from parental conflict. So ideally reduce conflict and at any rate insulate the kids from the conflict. And so first principle is whatever we can do to reduce conflict, we should. And if we’re able to discuss it with the other parent in advance, things that we disagree on but can agree on, on solutions that work for everybody, great.

Eran Magen [00:25:18]:
If we can’t do it on our own, go to a mediator, work on that, go to a co parenting coach or counseling or something like that. These things exist and work and are well worth it in terms of treating the parent as a colleague. Create boundaries, Create boundaries that work for you and ideally work for the other parent as well. But certainly they have to work for you. Whatever makes you feel safe physically, emotionally, relationally is fair game. You can ask, please don’t contact me during these and these hours unless it’s an emergency or you can say, let’s limit our communication to email. Email, I’d rather not talk on phone or it’s too spontaneous or make up a reason or whatever you need. Right? But if it’s too activating for you to talk with the other parent or you get kind of sucked into conflict this way, then find communication methods that do work for you and respect the wishes of the other parent about this.

Eran Magen [00:26:02]:
Right. Because the goal is to reduce tension. There’s so much stuff that can easily activate either parent and so find ways to communicate that cause the least amount of activation for the other parent. And the other is like in a work setting, just have very clear delineation. Here are the to do on items. Here’s what you’re going to do. Here’s what I’m going to do. Is this correct? Just assume nothing, make it super, super clear what’s going to happen.

Eran Magen [00:26:26]:
And lastly, if the other parent is acting in ways that are upsetting to you or uncomfortable to you as you’re trying to do something for your child, just do your best to put aside, ignore the emotional layer of the communication. Focus on the logistical so you can do that. Just like if you had an annoying co worker and there was nothing you could do about it because you tried fixing it and the language didn’t change and you went to HR and they don’t care and they’re like, well, well they’re technically within the balance of whatever and so you can’t change their behavior. But focus on the actual specifics that need to happen in Order to make sure you’re taking care of your kid. And remember that this person is no longer your anything other than the parent of your children. Right. I think it’s a very helpful semantic switch to go from my ex to my kid’s mom because it’s actually true. That is the function of the person in your life right now.

Eran Magen [00:27:12]:
And I think it helps us remember also that this person is actually very important. Important. And we need to treat that person with the right level of respect and consideration because our kids need their mom. It’s like they need their dad. And it reminds us to just tread a little more lightly because we don’t want to actually hurt our kid’s mom or distance our kid’s mom. The kids need their mom. We just need to figure out how to coordinate.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
Some fathers worry about becoming less present or connected after a divorce. What can they do to maintain a strong bond with their kids, even if custody time is limited?

Eran Magen [00:27:45]:
Feminine There are a few things to do and I’ll say them in no particular order. One is work to have more time with the kids. It can happen through discussion and agreement or it can happen through legal action. But don’t give up on having more time with your kids. That’s really important because it’s very easy to perceive a societal message that says there’s no reason for you to have more time with your kids or of course they should be spending more time with their mom. It’s kind of a societal default at this point and you don’t have to accept the default default. And it’s okay for you to want to and act to have more time. So again, first and foremost, express your wishes clearly.

Eran Magen [00:28:19]:
And if your wishes can’t be met, if you’re not able to see them as much as you would like, consider pursuing them possibly through legal action. That’s a possibility. Consult with a lawyer and see what can happen. Or at least I mean start with mediation and then ideally go to non adversary legal representation, which is a whole thing that I wasn’t aware of before, where it’s a lawyer who, who signs an agreement with you in advance to never represent you in court. And so they’re incentivized to keep you out of court because if you go to court, you stop working with that lawyer. So the incentives become aligned through that kind of practice. So if you and your kid’s mom can get with a non adversarial practice, that’s a huge win. And if necessary, yes, go to court, of course.

Eran Magen [00:28:54]:
But step one, make your wishes known. Step two, argue and work to actualize your wishes. Having said this, in the meantime, what do you do in terms of connecting with your kids? One really important thing to remember is that, that it’s extremely hard for kids to become disconnected from their parents. There are many kids, I’m sure that all of us know, and maybe some of us have been, who see their dad once a week, twice a month, once a month, three times a year. And still as kids had this sense of like, this is my dad and it’s exciting, I’m going to go see my dad. Where, you know, as the dad in the story, you’re like, this is horrible. I’m never seeing my kids and I don’t know what’s going on with them. But the kids remain very connected to their parents.

Eran Magen [00:29:31]:
It takes a lot to disconnect, connect the kid from the parent. And so fear less, have less fear about your kids becoming estranged from you. Again, do what you can to have more time. But, but it’s unlikely your kids will stop thinking about you as their dad or as their parent and want to connect with you. So that’s, number one, just kind of reduce intensity internally. Number two, during the times that you do have together, be a hundred percent present, especially if you don’t have a lot of time together, 100% present, zero distractions, block everything off. It’s, it’s amazing what the impact of this kind of quality time is. And if you look around at friends who have access to their kids all the time, you may discover that they have a lot less quality time with their kids than you do because they’re not as focused, they kind of take it for granted.

Eran Magen [00:30:12]:
And you can build an amazing relationship off of a handful of times a week for a relatively short amount of time. If you’re 100% focused and present on the relationship, you don’t need to do crazy stuff. You don’t need to constantly bombard them with gifts. You do not need to play catch up with the things that they do with the other parent or compete on gifts and excitingness and whatnot. Just focus on being the best father you can be while you’re with them. It’ll take you such a long way and they will stay connected to you. Just be present, Just use that time that you have well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
You also provide scripts and guidance for difficult conversations. What’s a good way for a dad to explain the divorce to his child in an age appropriate, supportive way?

Eran Magen [00:30:57]:
So back to first principles. It’s really important to insulate kids from parental conflict. Exposing Kids to parental conflict and parental animosity is just very bad for the kids. The kids are strongly connected to both parents. They can’t help it. Asking them to acknowledge that you’re upset or hurt or, you know, what have you, it is tearing them apart. It’s just so damaging. And so leaving that part out, I think is very important.

Eran Magen [00:31:23]:
Maybe that’s something you talk about with them when they’re 30. It’ll still hurt when they’re 30, but by then they will have figured some of it out. But leave out the hurt and the nastiness. And I would say talk in terms of friendship. Talk in terms of, we were such good friends for a long time, you know, and we lived together and we had you and we had your sister, and we were so happy in doing this. And at some point, and then whatever the actual story is, I think it’s fair to say maybe it was your decision, maybe it was Mom’s decision, maybe it was a mutual decision. But you could say, like, you know, at some point we realized that we don’t want to live together anymore. We want to live separately.

Eran Magen [00:31:53]:
And we, of course, continue to be our parents. And that’s a point to keep emphasizing. Right? We both love you so much, and you. You are so important to us. But we didn’t want to continue living together. We decided to go more or less our separate ways, but to continue to be your parents and make sure that we’re taking care of you and all of this and kind of present it fairly lightly. I wouldn’t say nonchalantly. It’s not like, I mean, unless that’s the model of relationships you want your kid to have in their head, if that’s how you’re thinking about it.

Eran Magen [00:32:18]:
But for me, personally, I don’t want to present it as, oh, yeah, you know, we were super committed to each other and lived together and then decided not to. And, you know, we’ll see what happens, happens next. Like, it’s a big thing. Maybe it’s a big, important decision, and it’s okay to say it was. It was sad for us or it was hard to figure out how to continue from there. But, you know, we knew all the time that the most important thing is to take care of you, blah, blah, blah. And I think that about covers it. So just kind of sanitize it a little bit in terms of conflict.

Eran Magen [00:32:41]:
Sanitize the conflict out of it. Explain that you reached a decision that was ultimately mutual. Right. Even if, let’s say it was. It was Mom’s idea And you really didn’t like it. Eventually you agreed to the separation, obviously. Right. You’re not camping out under mom’s bed against her wishes.

Eran Magen [00:32:55]:
Like you agreed at some point that this needs to happen. Sanitize the conflict. Emphasize that was a mutual decision. Emphasize repeatedly that you are committed to your kids, that they’re important to you, that you love them, that you want to do the right thing for them always. And that’s about it. You don’t need to dwell on it an enormous amount. Kids, especially when they’re younger, up until, I don’t know, maybe nine or so, are so amazingly self centered. They don’t dwell too much on like your experience of things.

Eran Magen [00:33:20]:
It doesn’t really matter to them. They just need a story that makes sense to them, to them. And I think that version of the story is reasonable that you tell them later on as they get older. If they want more detail, maybe you can share. But I would encourage everybody to not disparage the other parent ever again and not start kind of hearing the kid in both directions or say things that are can be upsetting about the other parent. And if you hit a point where the kid asks a question, which they will at some point about the other parents motivation or about the other parent’s thinking or about why would the parent do this thing? The answer is, you know, I really don’t totally understand it myself, but I respect your mom’s wishes or you know, her choices. And I don’t have a better answer that sometimes people do things that we don’t understand completely, but they still get to make the choices that they make and leave it at that. If the kid wants to go talk to the other parent about it, fine.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]:
We always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection six where six more questions to delve into you a little bit deeper as a dad. Are you ready?

Eran Magen [00:34:16]:
I am ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:17]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your son?

Eran Magen [00:34:20]:
Joyful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:20]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Eran Magen [00:34:24]:
I’ll give you a twofer actually. As I was going through the separation process and I was very worried about my son becoming essentially estranged from me because I didn’t see him a lot the first few years and a friend taught me to ask two questions whenever I start kind of spinning out. One is how’s my son doing? And the other is how’s my connection with my son? And as long as the answer is good and good, then there’s nothing to worry about. Sure. I might want to See him more. Sure, I might worry about what will happen in the future, but right now, he’s well, he’s taken care of. He’s fine. And my connection with him is great.

Eran Magen [00:34:50]:
And so the problem is more in my head than in the world. So learning to ask these two questions, specifically, going through a divorce or separation, how’s my son doing? How’s my connection with my son?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:59]:
What’s one activity you and your son love doing together?

Eran Magen [00:35:02]:
There’s so many. I’m gonna have to go with wrestling. I’ve been doing jiu jitsu for many years now, and I love it. And I’m very careful not to sort of impose it on my son, but I would say at least every other day, he’ll sort of tackle me to the ground and then start climbing on me and kind of shriek and enjoy himself. And it’s just super fun. It’s so physical. It’s not violent. Like, we’re very gentle with each other.

Eran Magen [00:35:21]:
There’s so much physical contact that happens that’s really fun. Sometimes it’ll stop and ask a technical question, and then I feel good about being able to explain something, but it’s. We’re just messing around most of the time, so just kind of rolling around on the carpet or the beanbag. It’s just super fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]:
If you could give your son one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Eran Magen [00:35:38]:
I think about this a lot. One life lesson, one advice for life that I would give my son. Son feels so momentous. A message that I often convey to him is, you can learn anything. You can become great at anything if you’re willing to put in the work.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]:
Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their kids?

Eran Magen [00:36:02]:
Have focused, present fun with your kids, starting now, and never stop. It’s not a later thing. Just right now, start having the relationship you want to have all the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:11]:
Well, Aran, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey as a father, but also the resources that you have created. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Eran Magen [00:36:22]:
Well, first of all, thank you for your very thoughtful questions and responses. I really appreciate it. Like, it’s clear that you’re so connected and interested and thoughtful about it. It’s really. It’s such a pleasure to get to think about my own parenting this way to learn about me. I. Yeah, the two places would be either parenting for humans.com that you mentioned or divorcing dads.com that you mentioned then I’m very easy to find and contact through these places.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]:
Well, again, Aran, thank you. Thank you for being here today and for sharing this and I wish you all the best.

Eran Magen [00:36:53]:
Likewise. Thank you so much.

Harmony at Home: Dustin Lolli on Fatherhood, Faith, and Family

July 7, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

On the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dustin Lolli, lead singer of the band Sanctus Real, for a candid conversation about what it really means to be a present, engaged dad—especially to daughters at two very different life stages. Throughout the episode, listeners are treated to heartfelt stories, honest admissions of “mistakes,” and practical wisdom on raising confident, independent daughters.

Fatherhood Across Generations

Dustin shares the unique experience of being a father to both a 21-year-old and a 5-year-old daughter. He reflects on the surprises and joys of meeting each child exactly where they are—from encouraging an early love of art and animals in his oldest, to discovering what makes his youngest “tick.” The message is clear: there’s no manual, and every child truly is unique. What matters most is the willingness to stay curious, adaptable, and humble.

Fostering Independence & Stability

One powerful theme is the delicate balance between guidance and independence. As Dustin describes, the journey is a “push and pull”—supporting his daughters as they take chances, make mistakes, and hone their passions, while also providing a secure foundation they can always come home to. He espouses the importance of loving consistency over quick fixes, and of letting kids know that stability and support are always present, even as they navigate their own paths.

Music, Family, and Finding Passion

Music runs deep in the Lolli family, but Dustin is quick to note that he and his wife encourage their children to find their own unique passions, not simply follow in their footsteps. An especially touching moment is Dustin’s retelling of recording “Confidence” as a duet with his daughter Arden—not because she wanted the spotlight, but because it was a special moment to connect and create together.

Faith, Hope, and Real-World Parenting

With faith at the center of his message, Dustin brings a sense of hopefulness to the challenges of raising kids today, especially when it comes to social media and comparison culture. He emphasizes leading with love, authenticity, and an understanding that parenting is about the child’s needs, not the parent’s expectations.

Why You Should Listen

This episode isn’t just for dads; it’s for anyone who values deep family connections, honest conversations, and real-life stories about learning, loving, and growing together. Tune in to hear Dustin’s thoughtful insights and be inspired to show up as the parent your children need—flaws, questions, and all.

Ready to be inspired? Listen to the full episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection—you’ll come away with wisdom to last a lifetime.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]:
I am so excited that you’re back with us again this week. As always, every week, I love being on this journey with you and I call it a journey because the connections that we want to build with our daughters happen daily. But we have to do what we can to learn, to grow, to build stronger connections. And it’s not always going to be easy. There’s going to be some bumps in the road. You got to be willing to go for the long run, go in for the long haul and make sure that you know that you can ask for help, you can learn from others, and that’s what this podcast is all about. Every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that are fathering in different ways, are building those connections in different ways, but they are learning along with their daughters as well, and that is so important. This week we got another great guest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:50]:
Dustin Lally is with us and Dustin is the lead singer of Sanctus Real, a band. If you’ve never heard of it, I’m going to say Google it, but I’ll have a link in the notes today. But definitely it is a band that’s been around for over 30 years. Amazing music. We’re going to talk a little bit about his music as well, but he’s a father of four and he’s got two daughters. He’s got a 21 year old daughter and a five year old daughter. So we got both ends of the spectrum and we’re going to talk about that journey that he’s been on to be able to build those strong connections with his own daughter. And I’m really excited to have him here today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
Dustin, thanks so much for being here.

Dustin Lolli [00:02:24]:
Well, thanks for having me. This is great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:27]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here. And as I said, building those relationships takes time. It takes effort. And you know, I think as you think about both your daughters and as I said, they’re at two ends of the spectrum in regards to where they are in life. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughters and what made it so special?

Dustin Lolli [00:02:51]:
I think I’ve always had, you know, our oldest daughter is a firstborn. So the first four years she was just with us. And so there’s, there was a lot of connecting time there, right? Like, and I was young, I mean, I was 21 when we got married. My wife got pregnant three months after we got married. So her birthday is two days from our first year anniversary. So I was a kid, right? Like having a child and not only having a child, having a girl child for a 21 year old boy, you know that you have these, these moments and I, I just, I just fell in love immediately. But you have so much, Obviously when you’re 21, you really have so much to learn. And I think what I noticed first off, like one of the first meaningful moments where I was like, okay, this is a unique child, like a unique person, right? This isn’t, I don’t know what it is.

Dustin Lolli [00:03:40]:
When you’re young, you’re like, everything is going to fit into almost like a movie. You’re right, like you, you’re making the steps of your life and then the first plot twist happens and it’s like, oh, I gotta deal with this. But my daughter, from an early age, she loved to go out and draw. And it was like amazing at an early age. And she had a great vocabulary. She’d be talking early and one day she’s drawing and she drew a shark and a seal and the shark was eating the seal and she drew blood everywhere. This is a girl, a little baby girl. She’s like 4 years old and I’m 5 years old maybe and, and I’m like, what is that? And she said she was watching the Discovery Channel and saw Shark Week, right? I remember this feeling of like, this is a sweet baby girl, but she also loves, loves this other nature and animals and art.

Dustin Lolli [00:04:31]:
And it was, I know it doesn’t sound like much, but for me I was sitting there going, I’ve got a lot to learn about this and helping her see these things. And I loved it. But you’re looking at it from a perspective of, I thought it was going to be this sweet, dainty little thing. And here she’s drawing blood coming out of a seal, right? Like, oh. And she still Works with animals, right? This is. She’s had this love for animals, and she was like, just real little, and she. Now she works with dogs, and she works and she draws, and it’s amazing. So that little moment with just me and we’re looking at this thing, I was like, okay, this.

Dustin Lolli [00:05:04]:
I got a lot to learn about my own daughter. And so we started doing things more with animals. And, like, she started learning about animals, and we took her to. She has a really great picture where they had a live wolf. She got to take pictures, like, actual pictures with the wolf. And so just those moments to start with her were just. I found her loves, right? Her interests and her mom. We just found what she loved, and we really are.

Dustin Lolli [00:05:29]:
What we really wanted to do from the beginning was. Was encourage her to do the things that she loved. And part of our. Even our schooling that we gave her was art, and we wanted her to learn with passion. That moment, though, stands out because it was like a turning point for me, right? Like, I was like, okay, I gotta change my thinking to, this is a real human being. This isn’t. This isn’t just out of a movie. This is a girl who’ to develop and develop her own passions and develop her own things.

Dustin Lolli [00:05:55]:
And I’m a guy, and I have no idea what any of that looks like.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:58]:
So now you also have a daughter that’s five and two other kids along with your other daughter. So I guess now with having a daughter at the other end of the spectrum, and you have an adult daughter now, how are you taking what you learned from your firstborn in building that relationship with your youngest as well?

Dustin Lolli [00:06:23]:
It’s funny because I think it’s two things psychologically. It’s not just, hey, I get to learn from her. It’s that I’m older anyway. Like, I see the world differently. There’s a lot of experience with having four, and they’re all very distinct personalities and different people. And so I think for me, it’s. It’s not just, hey, thinking back to how my oldest name is Arden. It’s not just thinking back to that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:45]:
It’s.

Dustin Lolli [00:06:45]:
It’s kind of taking the sum of all of this experience and going, what this girl? And of course, she’s in a different place again because my youngest, her next closest sibling, is 14, so she’s kind of an only child at this age, too. So we’re looking at it from a perspective again of we want her to be healthy emotionally, we want her to be healthy mentally. And there are so many things now in Life that will from screens and to all of this stuff that are going to try to take some of that away from her that we’re learning and we’re doing our best to have a balanced, balanced life. And we learned that with Arden. The problem with Arden was, you know, you have these kids who are easy. And I thought I was a great parent with her because she was intelligent early on, she was emotionally very chill. And of course there was always something she wasn’t perfect. But I always thought, man, I must be a good parent.

Dustin Lolli [00:07:39]:
And then the next ones come along and it’s, you know, they’re boys, so they’re different. But even so, you’re like, okay, maybe every kid is unique and different. And I think that kind of experience or now it’s like we’re looking at our, our youngest and she is full of life, the baby to a T. She is loud and fun and dramatic and all of these things. And I think for us, in a lot of ways it’s like every child of ours has been different and unique and our job is to love them the best way that we know how. And we’ve learned that with our other kids. There’s no formula to it. There’s no point A to point B.

Dustin Lolli [00:08:14]:
If you do this, this, this and this, it’s going to be perfect. Because all our kids have different genetic makeup. And I don’t mean like mother, dad, I just mean like they were born different, they think differently, they feel differently. And so as a parent, especially with this one, we’re just trying to find, okay, what makes her tick and what makes her thrive. And she is the most fun little five year old you’ll ever come across. It’s incredible.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:37]:
You mentioned the fact that some of the things that you did with Arden to help her to real of the passions that she had. And I guess as you think about in raising her to where she is today, how did you balance guiding her while also giving her the independence to becoming her own person?

Dustin Lolli [00:08:58]:
I think probably a lot of mistakes, you know. No, it’s a great question. I think it’s still a question that’s in process for us. I mean, she’s 21. Even now you’re like, you still want to protect, but then you also know you can’t, you have to let go in a lot of ways. She just came to us and she wants to go to Ireland with a group and she’d have to fly by herself. And the dad and me is like, oh, I don’t know. And then you go, but she’s 21, and we’ve never really tried to keep her from anything.

Dustin Lolli [00:09:27]:
But as a dad, there’s this safety thing, which there’s all of these things that you’re like, I’m supposed to protect her. I’m supposed to do all this. So as they get older, that with a girl is so much harder to let go of. Like my boys, I’m like, whatever, just go, man up, do the thing. Which good or not, it’s just a natural process. I don’t even think of it other than it’s a natural thing. I would have wanted my dad to do that when I was 18, like, go mess up a few times. But the girl, that’s hard because however, genetically we’re inclined to be this way.

Dustin Lolli [00:09:56]:
So my wife helps a lot with that. You know, we have a very balanced relationship. She is a girl, and I know this is dad. Daughter is hard because you don’t understand, like, what they feel, what she’s going through. And so I rely on her a lot for a lot of the emotional things. And I hope we’ve always tried to make a good team with it, but I think you have to over. Over the. From the time she’s been 16 and on, it has been a tug of war and a push and pull of Arden, you have to prepare for the future.

Dustin Lolli [00:10:25]:
You have to do the things it takes to be a successful person without mom and dad, while at the same time saying, arden, we are your safety net right now. You can make mistakes. You have a stable home, you have a stable place. And if you go out there and fail, even now, we tell her this all the time. This is your time to take chances. This is your time to go seek out this art, go do this thing and build your future. But just know that if it doesn’t work out, you have a stable landing ground right now. And so it is.

Dustin Lolli [00:10:56]:
It’s a push and pull of like, we’re here, stability’s here. But because you have a foundation, you can go take risks, you can go do those things, and we’re all for it, and we’ll support you in anything. Obviously, I’m in music. My daughter has a great voice. She’s beautiful voice, but she doesn’t want to sing. And so it’s like those balancing moments where you’re like, I can offer you these opportunities because of what I do. And she’s saying, but that’s not my heart. Those are the things we work through, and those are the things, okay, so what is your passion? What do you want to do.

Dustin Lolli [00:11:24]:
And it’s a tug of war always inside of me now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:26]:
You talked about, and you kind of joked about it, that you probably made some mistakes. And all of us make mistakes. I mean, we are not perfect. There’s no manual to how you raise a kid. And I guess as you think about those mistakes, what’s a mistake that you made as a father and what did it. What did you learn from it about fostering positive communication?

Dustin Lolli [00:11:49]:
I use the word mistake. I kind of did say it as a joke. I think sometimes I look at people and say, you only know when you made a mistake because we know what the right thing was. And so it’s our weight, it’s our judge. So the truth is, I don’t know how many mistakes I’ve made because I don’t know always what the right thing was. So you’re just doing your best. And so you look back and go, maybe if I had done it this way, it would have gone better. But hindsight’s 20 20.

Dustin Lolli [00:12:13]:
It’s hard to deal with that. You just learn to grow from it. With my daughter, you think of girls and you think of emotions. You think of it. My daughter is a very stable, quiet, emotional person. She feels things strongly, but she doesn’t always show them. And as a guy, you have these stereotypical wrong things. This is part of.

Dustin Lolli [00:12:31]:
As a young man, you have a daughter and you realize, okay, she’s not a stereotype. She’s a person. And she has her feelings, but she also has strong here. And I think without taking the time and having the humility to learn what it is that makes her tick, you can just jump the gun on stuff, and you can just plow right into things and go, oh, well, honey, let me tell you how to do this. And I think there were a lot of times where I thought I knew what was right for her, and I thought I knew if I gave her this advice and she did it, but. But after the fact, I go, if she were me, that might have worked, but she’s not me. And so in a lot of ways, parenting to me is. There’s a checklist for parenting, and I think it’s good, but for me, it doesn’t work.

Dustin Lolli [00:13:11]:
Parenting to me is loving your kids the best way possible. And that might be being tough on one at some point and being less tough on another at some point, but it’s knowing them, and if you know them well enough, you know how to love them well. And I think the biggest mistakes that I made, I think, were a lot of Times where I was more interested in giving them advice based on my opinion than based on where they were or what her needs were in the time I, like, wanted to be right rather than I wanted to help her. And so I don’t think my motive early on as a dad, sometimes I was just doing the best I could. If I had a chance to talk to me, then I would say, you’re doing the best you can, but you’re doing the best you can for yourself instead of the best you can for your family or for your daughter. There’s a lot in there. I could nuance that all day long. I could unpack that all day long.

Dustin Lolli [00:13:56]:
But I don’t always love the word mistakes because I think we create the baseline to judge on now, obviously, for breaking the law or something, but we’re creating this baseline of like, well, this is the right thing and if we didn’t do it, then you’re a failure or it’s a mistake. And parenting, I mean, everything might be a mistake because you could probably do everything better at some point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:14]:
You hit the nail on the head there. I think that everybody will second guess, and we are innately programmed to second guess and say, have I done that right? And as men, I’ve talked about this before, so many men are programmed to be fixers. We walk into a situation, we don’t always listen, we don’t always hear what our daughters are telling us, but we come in and think, oh, I can fix this. And that’s not always what they need. And so one of the best things that someone ever told me, and it was kind of too late for me at the time, but was when you go into a conversation with your daughters, you should let them have the ability to say whether the conversation is a listening or a fixing conversation. Because if it is a listening conversation, you need to turn that part of your brain off that says, I’m trying to fix this for you, and you need to let them struggle with it and just talk through it. But if they say, no, this is a fixing conversation, then you can turn that right back on and truly give them the advice that you’re prone to give for your daughters. What’s one way that you show your daughters that they can always count on you?

Dustin Lolli [00:15:21]:
I think that’s an earned thing over time. I don’t know if there’s one action. I think being there over the years, you know, I would say my 21 year old, it’s just consistency. I think there’s no one action when she’s been through hard times, you just, you’re there. When she’s having her great times, you’re there. I love to be able to just tell people, hey, if you do this, it’s going to be great. The thing is, your listeners don’t even know my family life. I could be the worst dad in the world, pretending here.

Dustin Lolli [00:15:48]:
And that’s okay. To me, life in and of itself is this flow thing where a lot of people love to have step by step things. And I think trust is earned over time, even with your kids. I think love is a daily thing where you’re choosing somebody above yourself, especially your kids. And I think you can’t be a good parent unless you go into parenting thinking, I’m going to give something up for my children. And I’ve learned that over the years. And I think I do have a wonderful family life and I do have great kids and. But I think they would even tell you that there’s never been a moment.

Dustin Lolli [00:16:21]:
It’s just, it’s earned. Over the years, from when she was little, she learned that mom and dad were going to be there and they were going to be our priority. Now, I will say this. One of our early things we decided as a couple was we weren’t going to change our lives for our kids. We were going to include our kids in our lives. And so our kids have always had a semblance of this is what mom and dad do and we’re a part of it. I’ve seen a lot of families, they have a child and suddenly their entire life changes. They don’t see friends anym, they don’t go out anymore.

Dustin Lolli [00:16:52]:
The kids on a 7pm bedtime. And that can’t be deviated from. We didn’t do any of that. Now whether that’s psychologically right or wrong, we didn’t do any of that. We said, okay, we’re going to include our baby girl in everything that we do. And so she would come out to eat with us and we were involved in a lot of ministry stuff. So she would go to all of this stuff and sometimes she’d stay up late. And so.

Dustin Lolli [00:17:14]:
And the reason why I say that is because in a lot of ways our kids, instead of just being the center of attention, they were a part of a family. Arden wasn’t a only child. And when she thought, oh, I get everything, she knew she was going to go with mom and dad to everything. She was a part of it. And that was a healthy thing. So answering your question, I think the lifestyle choices and the day to Day. Consistency, love, consistency is what really for, I think, developed our relationship. So it kept it strong when she went to teenage years.

Dustin Lolli [00:17:46]:
And here’s the other thing. My daughter was such a good child. I would have these people say to me all the time, I mean, this became a just wait till she’s a teenage. You think you got it good now, but just wait till she’s a teenager. They all fall off the road. She’s a girl. And you know what? I. My wife and I used to look at each other and be like, that doesn’t mean that’s going to happen to Arda.

Dustin Lolli [00:18:05]:
And you know what? It never did. She’s always been a consistent. I mean, it’s been amazing. She’s been the easiest child and, you know, a lot of that’s her own thing. But I like to think some of that’s just the stability and the fact that she’s gone every day knowing how loved she really is. So one moment I couldn’t tell you. I think it’s a collection and an earning of trust over the years and just the stability and a consistency that it takes unselfish love to get there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:32]:
Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you are the lead singer with Sanctus Real. And one of the questions that I had for you because I know that a little while back you. There is a song called Confidence, and it’s a powerful song that definitely resonated with many of your fans. More recently, you released an acoustic version of it with your daughter Arden. And what inspired you to create that rendition? And how did involving Arden deepen your connection to the song and the message?

Dustin Lolli [00:19:03]:
Well, it’s crazy because my daughter was 14 years old when we first had her sing on it. And it went something like this. We were doing a radio event and we were making a video and we wanted kids to sing originally instead of me on this video that we were making for this radio event. And the only kid in the room was arden. She was 14. We said, hey, Arden, can you come sing? I had never heard her sing for real. She did not sing out loud. I didn’t know if she could sing.

Dustin Lolli [00:19:29]:
It’s kind of crazy. My wife will tell you, like, she just would shy away from singing. But my baby boy, Ian, who was little at the time, he would have been. He would have been like five, would tell us that he wanted Arden to sing him to sleep at night because she had a voice like an angel, which we never heard. So I said, arden, can you sing this? She so didn’t want to sing it. We have this video of her singing it. She’s got a hoodie on and her, she’s like slouched over, over. But when she’s saying this sound came out.

Dustin Lolli [00:19:58]:
And I remember our guitar player Chris looking at me like, whoa, what is happening? So instead of having kids, we just had her voice on it. 14 year old Arden, and we play this radio event, and there’s 70 of the biggest radio stations in the country for Christian music in this room. And this video comes on, right? And this voice. And after it was over, I get people coming to us asking who the girl was that sang our song. And they’re handing me business cards. And she got record offers at 14, like, hey, when she’s ready, let me know. And I’m like, she doesn’t even sing. Like, she’s never sang in front of people or anything.

Dustin Lolli [00:20:36]:
And so that’s where it started at this thing. That’s not what you heard. That was like the first time she’s saying this in front of people. But she doesn’t love the stage. She doesn’t love what she sees as. I don’t think that’s what I want to do. But there was always this connection to this song through that. And then when we were deciding to do this acoustic version and I was like, baby girl, people love that.

Dustin Lolli [00:20:57]:
And I would love to do a duet. Like, so could this just be the one time you do it right? And she agreed to it and we did a video of it and it, you know, it’s funny because we put that out and we still get people in comments who are like, who’s this Arden artist? Where do I find her music? How do I listen to her? I’m like, that’s it? That’s all you got? But I love, you know, she still sings around the. I mean, her voice is special. And this is one of those things as a dad where you’re like, I’m hoping that at some point she goes, I love to sing. I want to do this. And then I could bring her into so much more. But until then, I just got this one special moment with her, and it is special. And I, you know, again, I’m always like, your first time singing on video and you might have a half a million views, it’s your only video you’ve ever done, you’re pretty successful, you should probably do it again.

Dustin Lolli [00:21:48]:
So we’re still working on it. I’m gonna get her back on there. My other daughter, by the way, you won’t have a problem. She’ll probably want to sing on. So she’s five and she has no fear and no, she wants the stage. So that should be fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:00]:
I know that you as being the lead singer of this band, your band is definitely touring. You’re spending a lot of time on the road. How do you navigate the balance between touring with Sanctus Real and being present in your children’s daily lives?

Dustin Lolli [00:22:17]:
I have four our guitar players for there’s three of us that, that are the band and we have 11 kids between us and we’ve all been married a good amount of time. Healthy, healthy marriages, healthy relationships. You don’t do this, you don’t do what we do in a healthy way unless your family are your partners in it. And one of the things about being around for as long as we are, we can control our touring. And so there are seasons where we’re gone quite a bit. But I always tell people this, I always say we’re actually home more than most people. Most people have have nine to five jobs, they’re gone or more. They’re gone eight, 10 hours a day and then they come home and they’re tired and they’re worn out and you know, it’s hard.

Dustin Lolli [00:22:57]:
That’s hard. And I don’t ever want anyone ever. People ask us how we do it and I’m always like, I watch my dad get up at 4 in the morning for 30 years and work and be exhausted. I have a great life and a great job. And yes, it’s, it’s challenging sometimes it is, but every job is. So when I come home, here’s why I say that is when we’re home or home, I write songs for people. So I might go for a couple hours a day here and there. But when I come home, unlike most jobs, I’m home.

Dustin Lolli [00:23:23]:
I don’t have anything else to do, I’m home. And what we normally try to do is play three days a week and be home for. And some seasons we’ll have a bigger tour and we’ll be gone more but then we have a lot of time off so I might be home for a month straight. So it’s really just navigating these seasons and, and my wife gets used to it, she has a rhythm. When I’m gone, my older kids, it’s normal life. But dad’s here all the time. Time dad’s home, it gets to do stuff like I’ve helped coach my kids baseball team. It’s a little harder on the five year old and sometimes being home a lot is even harder for her because I’ll be home for a month and then I’m gone for two weeks.

Dustin Lolli [00:24:00]:
And she doesn’t know what to do with that because she got into a routine. But we work through all of that and she’s, you know, she’s actually been on the road now that we’re older too. My wife will come on the road sometimes and take her with like she’s been on the road with us a few times. So we try to include. We’re such a family based band now, now that our goal is to include our family. My son works for us, our drummer son works for us. So we do our best and our families are partners in what we do. They get it.

Dustin Lolli [00:24:27]:
It’s our jobs too. So dad has to have a job and we just try to include him as much as we can, like we did with Arden in that video. I mean, that’s part of that. We’re going to include our families. I think one of the coolest parts about what I do for a living is not just what I do, but talking about this thing is it’s actually had open doors for my kids in the future too. Like my one son plays guitar, loves it. I get to offer my kids something that I never had. And that’s an avenue in music if they want to.

Dustin Lolli [00:24:54]:
It’s connections in music if they want to. And so far they, they have, they want to jump in and so it’s great. So it works well for us because we’re very, very aware of it. Like our families are our number one priorities and we all know that. And so if you know that, then you’re going to build your tour around it, you’re going to build your career around it. And so we maintain that balance. We work really hard to keep that balance.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:17]:
You know, I know that a lot of your music touches on themes of faith and perseverance. How do you incorporate those themes into your parenting? And do your kids influence the messages you choose to convey through your songs?

Dustin Lolli [00:25:32]:
I think so. I think I am a big believer in hope. We are a Christian band in the sense of like, that’s our message of hope. And I look at the world today and just see a lot of people lacking, honestly, just hope. Regardless of what the situations, regardless of all the other stuff. It’s just we travel and we talk to people and you’re talking about our songs. And we hear so many stories about how our songs impact people because we try to put these messages of hope into them. But we also hear over and over again just the hopelessness that People deal with on a day to day basis.

Dustin Lolli [00:26:04]:
And that’s the world that we’re raising our kids in. Social media, this is comparison. And it’s all of these things that your kids are dealing with that I never had. This generation is dealing with things that even I never had to deal with, which is really, it’s like the first time that we are going to have to study something that’s never really been done, like kids and their screens and their social media. The influence of all of this information coming at us all the time. I tell my kids all the time, just turn your screens off for a week and you won’t even know what’s happening. And your world is so good and it feels so bad because you are being inundated with information constantly. And we need to know what’s going on out there.

Dustin Lolli [00:26:43]:
Again, this, this balance, but it does, it impacts a lot of what I write about, a lot of what I’m passionate about. I believe in doing the right thing in every situation as best as we can. I believe in love. I believe that, you know, I don’t think anybody’s a robot. And so therefore we come into situations with people and we prescribe methods of healing, but we’re also different. And so for me, even with my kids, it’s. I don’t ever want to get into the know it all way of saying, hey, this is how you fix it. Right? I think we’re all created differently.

Dustin Lolli [00:27:20]:
Different likes, different tastes, different intelligences, different things. And until we know what those things look like, it’s hard to even give advice to people to say, hey, do this thing. Because that advice could be dangerous for somebody who doesn’t think or feel the same way that you do. And so I take all that into account, you know, with my kids. And then even with our message, like how do we give a message to people that is, is hopeful and a blessing rather than painful and a curse, basically, right? And I think it’s my worldview. Like my worldview doesn’t change whether it’s looking at my kids or whether it’s looking at my career or whether it’s looking at our music, right? It’s, it’s my worldview. And for me, I’m a Christian, so my worldview comes from that. So it impacts every part of what I do and what I think.

Dustin Lolli [00:28:05]:
And if it didn’t, then I, it’d be hard to say this is who I am or this is what I believe. So I don’t separate those things. I don’t separate family from music or music from career. All of those things are made up from the worldview of that I believe love and loving people. Well, and you win. I think I’m a good dad, not because I know what I’m doing, but because I love my kids enough to try to steer them to what is healthy and whole and balanced and find that. And I think that that’s always worked for me through my whole life. I’ve always felt like the best things that have ever happened in my life are because I chose to do the right thing in the hardest moments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:40]:
Now, I know you just mentioned a few minutes ago that your BO are interested in the music industry and they’ve shown interest in music and kind of the business side and playing as well. Sometimes, you know, with artists and families, sometimes people would say, stay away from it. I’ve dealt with this. I’ve been this don’t do what I’ve done. You kind of said, you know, I’m going to help them. I’m going to do what I can to be able to do that. So how do you nurture their creativity while guiding them through the challenges that you’ve had in your own life in the industry?

Dustin Lolli [00:29:10]:
Industry awareness. I always say there’s two types of people in the music business. There’s the artist and there’s the people who make money from the artist. And you have to understand that. And I’m not even saying that’s necessarily a bad thing, that’s why it’s a music business. But when you are healthy and aware that this is what’s happening around you, you can create and do things and love what you do. But you also aren’t going to get heartbroken because somebody betrayed you. Even though what they really did was they chased the money.

Dustin Lolli [00:29:37]:
Money. Artists are just creative and ethereal and raw that we tend to take everything. Now, I’m not really that way, as you probably tell, but they tend to take everything personally or it just is a blow to their self esteem. But the reality is they’re not turning their back on you. They’re turning their face toward money. That’s usually what it is. If you can’t make them money, they’re going to go somewhere that can because that’s the business. Which is funny because I say that it sounds so bad, but I actually don’t think it’s that bad.

Dustin Lolli [00:30:04]:
I just think it’s the reality that we have to to deal with. And most people aren’t aware enough of it to do it in a healthy way. But my kids, that’s one of the beauties is that they’ve got somebody who’s going before them that can help them see and walk through that, because it is about staying in a healthy place. All we do is put sounds in the air and hope people like them. There’s nothing too artsy fartsy about me, and you probably never had anybody say that on your podcast, but to me, it’s like, this is what I do. This is what I’ve been blessed with, the gift to do, to be able to sing. And I try to instill that with my kids. Don’t get too, too arrogant about anything.

Dustin Lolli [00:30:35]:
This just happens to be the thing that you’re good at. And if you’re good enough at it, people will pay you to do it. And if you’re good enough to have people pay you to do it, then you’re good enough to have people try to take money from you to do it. And so you have to understand the way the world works around you and be healthy and whole. And just knowing that I’m there to help guide them through that is why I’m like, hey, if you love music and you want to do this for a living, it’s a great job. You just have to be aware of the pitfalls, that’s all.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:58]:
Now, I know that, that you and your wife Sarah perform together as a folk duo as well, and the group name is this Way Home. How has collaborating musically with Sarah impacted your family dynamics and your approach to parenting?

Dustin Lolli [00:31:12]:
It’s the best. It’s awesome. If you listen to those songs, those songs probably reflect our family life. These songs, let’s Get Old Together, they’re cute. Not trying to be cheesy, they’re just cute. These are how we treat each other and how we love each other and all that kind of stuff. And our kids have seen that, and they know our family life. And my daughter says, I love it because it’s real, it’s you, and it’s our way of kind of expressing.

Dustin Lolli [00:31:33]:
And Sarah’s great singer. We did it before the band, and we’re just now starting it back up again. And our kids love it because I think they see mom and dad at their most happy. But it is us. It’s how we are at home, our banter. And I think in a lot of ways, when people see that, they get an actual view of how we are at home, which everyone wonders. How people are at home. Well, that’s kind of how we are at home.

Dustin Lolli [00:31:55]:
I mean, our kids are. And, you know, our son played with us the last time we went out. So it’s again, more family based thing. So it’s my favorite thing. It’s folk music, it’s easy to write. It’s my side project that’s just my release. And it reflects, I mean, you hear the songs, it reflects our worldview, it reflects kind of our family and what our core is. So yeah, go check that out.

Dustin Lolli [00:32:16]:
I’d actually love when people check that out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:18]:
We’ll definitely put a link over to it. And reflecting on your journey, what lessons from your own upbringing did you. You strive to pass on to your kids, both in life and through your music?

Dustin Lolli [00:32:31]:
A lot. My parents divorced when I was 3. My mom remarried, so I’ve had a stepdad and then my dad remarried. So my family is very scattered. It was hard, but it was probably the most healthy thing it could be in an unhealthy situation. But there was a lot of other things, so it wasn’t optimal. And I think part of that for me has always been I would never want my kids to go through that. So I wanted to break those chains of consistent.

Dustin Lolli [00:32:52]:
And so my kids, kids see even now in talking to me, they see, wow, Dad’s life was a lot different. They talked to me about my family life growing up. I love it. I have so many good memories, but it was very different. There was a lot of times where I’d be waiting, hoping my dad showed up to pick me up and whether or he just couldn’t do it. And I still remember the sadness. I had stepbrothers who went through a lot of hard stuff. And I watched it all and.

Dustin Lolli [00:33:16]:
And I think for me it was like. More than anything else in my life, I want to know that I gave my kids a chance, a stable chance. I want them to know that they can try to do crazy things. If they want to be musicians or they want to be artists, they can do it because they know that there’s a baseline of foundation that they can fall back into, take risks, do crazy things. That’s okay because you have a mom and dad who care enough and we’re there to support you through it all. And they’ve been healthy. I mean, it’s been good. But I think more than anything for me, I wanted my kids to have a stability that I never really had, that I never felt a dad, honestly.

Dustin Lolli [00:33:50]:
And I have a great dad. If he hears this, he’s great dad. But it’s different, right? It’s different. I didn’t ever want my kids to go through that kind of separation and that kind of fear that we went through when we were little. And even now, like I said, they see the difference. They see the dynamics. They see stories that I tell. And they’re old enough now to understand that it’s meaningful to have a mom and dad who have stayed together for 22 years and who show that they love each other every day.

Dustin Lolli [00:34:14]:
I mean, that’s meaningful. That’s something that is driven with my family life a lot. I just want my kids to see stability.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:20]:
We always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connect section. 6. So six more questions that delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Dustin Lolli [00:34:28]:
Okay. Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:29]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Dustin Lolli [00:34:34]:
Eclectic. I wanted to say something easy, like healthy or stable, but I think my daughters love that we do creative things a lot and our conversations are eclectic on purpose and just. I think my oldest daughter would love that. I think she’d love that I just said the word eclectic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:49]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Dustin Lolli [00:34:54]:
Love your wife. Well, you’ll be a good dad if you love your wife. I think that was something that you don’t correlate when you’re young and getting, you know, you’re about to enter dadhood. But the stronger your relationship with your wife is, the stronger your relationship with your daughters is. That’s what I feel like. And I love that advice. And that may not work for everybody. You might have hard hardships, but that was for me.

Dustin Lolli [00:35:15]:
That was a big thing for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:16]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters like doing together?

Dustin Lolli [00:35:20]:
My oldest one’s watching movies. Movies. We both love kung fu and we love just action movies, which is interesting. Again, she’s great, and so that’s something she always wants. If there’s a new martial arts movie out, she’ll just be like, dad, we got a new one. And we’ll sit down and watch and make jokes about it the whole movie. We talk all the time about various things. She loves video, and so she’s always.

Dustin Lolli [00:35:42]:
She wants to be a voice actor, which is great. She’s a cool voice. And so she’s always talking about arts. And since I’m in music, you know, I have some unique perspectives on what she loves the little one right now. I get to be the male doll in whatever game she’s formulating. Come, dad, let’s play. Here. I’ve got a boy doll here.

Dustin Lolli [00:35:59]:
It’s yours. Okay, thanks, baby. Then I just Watch her play. Basically, it’s great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:03]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Dustin Lolli [00:36:08]:
Oh, man. I would say take chances. Not security chances. As a dad, like, I don’t, but don’t be afraid to fail. Don’t be afraid to fail. And don’t. That’s always been the one thing I’ve said to my oldest daughter. A lot is just, just life is meant to be lived.

Dustin Lolli [00:36:22]:
So if you, the more balanced you are, the less fearful you are of taking a chance. So do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:27]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Dustin Lolli [00:36:31]:
That I don’t know anything. And if I did, it’s not for the right reasons. And I think just as I’m getting older, motivation’s everything. Our motives and what, why we do what we do is more important than what we do in the first place. And I think early on it was like everything was I was doing was trying to prove that I was a good dad instead of actually trying to be a good dad dad. And so I, I think for that it’s just open. Have an open mind with your kids. They’re all different and they all respond differently.

Dustin Lolli [00:36:59]:
And as I’ve gotten older, I just realized the less I know, sometimes the better off I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:03]:
Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build the lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Dustin Lolli [00:37:10]:
Love them. Well, I could come up with something like, real deep and be like, hey, do this checklist. But I just don’t think that works. Your daughters are your daughters and they are their own own unique people and personalities. And you have to know what makes. You have to know that. You have to get to know them well enough to know how to love them well. There has to be a connecting point on a human level.

Dustin Lolli [00:37:30]:
And it’s not just a dad daughter relationship. It’s you showing that you’re going to be there forever regardless. And that’s earned again, I think that’s earned over the course of years where you love them well, you treat them well, you support them well, you learn about them, you show interest in their interest, interests, and ultimately you just be the stable force that they need. And because ultimately it’s not about us. It’s not about us dads. I think the healthiest thing we can think about is it’s not about us in the relationship. It’s they’re the child. It’s about us supporting them.

Dustin Lolli [00:38:04]:
And so I think there has to be an unselfishness to it that A lot of us don’t want to give up. We don’t want to give up us. And you don’t have to give up all of you. But trust me when I say day, you’ll be happier when you start making it about your kid rather than about you. And you’ll find freedom in that. And so I would say to them, if you find yourself doing it because you want something, you need to change that. That’s. That’s where it needs a change.

Dustin Lolli [00:38:27]:
It can’t be about you. It has to be about her and has to be about her future and her relationship and her stability. And I promise you, when you do that, you’ll be rewarded as well. Like, not all sacrifice, you’ll be rewarded as well. Well, it’s the way it’s supposed to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:42]:
Well, Dustin, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your time today, for sharing your own journey. If people want to find out more about you, about the band, where should they go?

Dustin Lolli [00:38:51]:
They can go to sanctusreal.com any of the social media things. We’re kind of everywhere. If you Google it, you’ll see all the links. Music’s on YouTube. It’s kind of everywhere. All you gotta do is look it up. This way home. Same thing.

Dustin Lolli [00:39:02]:
I mean, we’re on Spotify primarily. We don’t treat that as like this big thing that we’re promoting and all that kind of stuff. That’s kind of our own little thing. Thing. So, yeah, I just google it this way home and sanct this real well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]:
Dustin, I truly appreciate your time today. Thank you for sharing everything that you’ve shared and I wish you all the best.

Dustin Lolli [00:39:20]:
I thank you. Appreciate it. You guys are great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:22]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and daughter connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:39:53]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny, screaming past messengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Embracing Change and Fatherhood: Insights with Nick Tasler

March 10, 2025 by dadofdivas

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In this powerful episode of Dad & Daughter Connection, we sit down with author and father of four, Nick Tasler. Best known for his insights into navigating change, Nick shares his unexpected journey of raising a daughter after initially planning for a smaller family, and the myriad challenges and joys that come with it.

Discovering the Joy of a Daughter

Nick Tasler and his wife were taken by surprise when their fourth child turned out to be a girl, breaking the streak of boys. From the moment of her birth, Gwendolyn brought a unique dynamic to the Tasler household. As she enters fourth grade, Nick reflects on the emotional roller coaster of discovering they had a daughter and the nuanced differences in parenting her compared to his sons. Tasler candidly admits to his fears about raising a daughter, particularly the anticipated complexities of her teenage years. This transition emphasizes the different challenges fathers face emotionally and practically when raising daughters.

Creating Intentional Relationships

A recurring theme in the discussion is the importance of intentional engagement. Nick underscores the significance of aligning with his children’s interests to foster a deeper connection. Though he might prefer different activities, he makes a concerted effort to be present in his daughter’s space, whether it means watching her favorite movies or participating in her hobbies. This practice strengthens their relationship and sets the stage for meaningful interactions.

Balancing Discipline and Leniency

Nick highlights the delicate balance required in parenting, where he often finds himself adopting the disciplinarian role for his daughter to balance his wife’s more lenient approach. This dynamic, while challenging, ensures that Gwendolyn receives a well-rounded upbringing. Such balanced parenting enables fathers to instill values and discipline while remaining approachable and involved.

Incorporating Work and Family

Tasler implements a unique tradition of taking each child on work trips when they turn 10. These trips serve as valuable bonding experiences and provide practical life lessons. Balancing work and family, Tasler stresses the importance of being intentional about making time for his children, despite professional obligations. This conscious effort helps in aligning interests and preventing excuses that could lead to absenteeism in crucial moments of their lives.

Agile Optimism: Embracing Change

Dr. Lewis and Nick also delve into the thematic core of Nick’s latest book, “Your Years of Wonder, Embrace Change, Grow Faster, Win Bigger.” Tasler’s personal connection to change, driven by numerous relocations throughout his life, makes him an advocate for agile optimism. This mindset promotes continuous learning and resilience, which he aims to instill in his children. Facing setbacks with a growth-oriented outlook not only aids personal development but also prepares his children to navigate life’s inevitable challenges.

Lasting Reflections

The episode concludes with Nick sharing a touching moment he experienced with Gwendolyn at SeaWorld, highlighting the profound satisfaction and success he feels as a father during shared experiences. His parting advice for fathers is to focus on the present moment, dispelling distractions and aiming to create memories worth cherishing. This perspective can lead to more intentional and loving fatherhood practices, ultimately raising empowered and resilient daughters.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to The Dad & Daughter Connection podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter’s lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week, I love being on this journey with you. I call it a journey because it truly is because every day there’s going to be ups. There’s going to be downs and you’re going to be learning every day that you have your daughter in your life, whether you’re at a point where they are a toddler and just moving around the house to they’re in college and they’re calling you because they need your help. Or if they’re adults and you’re checking in on them every once in a while, you’re always gonna be their dad. And that being said, there’s always something that you can learn about being a better father. And that’s why this podcast exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]: This podcast exists to help you to be able to be that engaged dad that you wanna be, but also gives you the tips and tools to help you to raise your daughters, to be those strong, independent women that all of us want our daughters to be. That’s why every week I bring you different guests from people with different experiences that can help you to think about fatherhood in a little bit different way, share some of their own experiences to help you to be able to broaden your own thoughts and broaden your own perspectives about fatherhood as well. And today we got another great guest. Nick Tasler is with us today. And I learned first about Nick because he’s got a brand new book out called Your Year of Wonders, Embrace Change, Grow Faster, Win Bigger. And I read this book as a part of my dad of divas blog and being able to I love reading about organizational change and leadership and things like that. But as the more and more that I read about it, the more I saw parallels with fatherhood. Nick is a father of 4 and he’s got one daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]: So we’re gonna be talking about that journey that he’s been on as well. And I’m really excited to be able to not only talk about fatherhood, but talk about the interplay between what he wrote in this book and fatherhood. Nate, thanks so much for being here today.

Nick Tasler [00:02:17]: My pleasure, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: It is my pleasure having you here today. Love being able to chat with you. And first and foremost, I wanna learn a little bit more about you as a dad. So I wanna turn the clock back in time because I know you’ve got 4 kids, 3 boys and a girl. So your youngest, your 4th grader is your daughter. So I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Nick Tasler [00:02:44]: Well, that is a story, Chris. So you are in luck. We were actually planning on stopping after 2. And well, I was planning on stopping after 2 because sort of selfishly, but also selflessly because my wife had those pregnancies with the first two where she is got morning sickness 24 hours a day for 9 straight months. And so we had our first two and I thought, okay, we’ve got our couple of kids. We’ve got a family, like, let’s call it good. Right? And she was okay with that for a little bit. And then about a, you know, after the second one was maybe a year old, a year and a half, she starts saying that she wants another.

Nick Tasler [00:03:31]: And I’m saying, don’t you remember how miserable you are during these pregnancies? Like, why do you wanna do this to yourself again? And then the selfish part, why do you wanna do this to me again? All right. Because I have to live with you for 9 months. Right? So we kinda had this debate and it raged on. There’s about 18 months between our first two and three and a half years between number 2 and number 3, because we had this debate going on for about 2 years before our 3rd one came along. So naturally, like usual, she won. We had 3 boys and then it was good. Then at this point, she says, you know what? I’m good. We’ve got our 3 happy.

Nick Tasler [00:04:15]: Let’s be done. Why don’t you go make sure we don’t have another? And I said, I will do that. And then I proceeded to procrastinate. And then we realized we are not done at 3. And surprise, you’ve got a 4th one on the way. Now, we didn’t find out the sex of the baby with any of our 4 kids. So we were surprised when they were born with all 3 of them. And we thought, why change it with the 4th? And we’re looking on the ultrasounds, and we get these nice four d ultrasounds.

Nick Tasler [00:04:47]: And this one looks exactly like the first three, and we’re thinking all we do is have boys. So we’ve got a 4th boy on the way. And that’s what we were thinking the entire time. Not even giving it a second. We almost didn’t even have a girl’s name. And then the day comes, we get there, and this baby comes out. And the doctor gives it to me, and I look at it. And I’m like, wait a second.

Nick Tasler [00:05:13]: There’s something wrong with this one. It’s missing an appendage, doc. And lo and behold, there came our our little girl. So I will say, this is she was the only one that I actually cried at the birth of. So that is my story on how little Gwendolyn arrived into our life.

Nick Tasler [00:05:31]: So she’s in 4th grade now, and I talk to dads all the time about this story of their daughters coming into their life, and and as their daughters age and the experiences that they’ve had. And many of dads talk about a little bit of fear as it comes to raising a daughter. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Nick Tasler [00:05:53]: I think my biggest fear is still yet to come just because I hear all the stories. I think it’s a cliche or a stereotype, maybe just a sweeping generalization that boys are harder when they’re younger, easier when they’re older. Girls are easier when they’re younger, harder when they’re older. So in other words, my daughter is only 10 right now. And so everyone says the teenage years are trickier with girls than with boys. So my fear is is what’s yet to come. And will I have the wherewithal and knowledge and wisdom and emotional intelligence to deal with the things that my daughter is going to go through that maybe my sons didn’t go through. And I’m still only, like, 50% convinced that, it’s going to be significantly different, but that’s what everyone tells me.

Nick Tasler [00:06:55]: So at the moment, I have not been afraid. I will say the one thing more so than the fact that it’s a girl versus a boy is the 4th rather than 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I do have this fear that as parents get older, as I’ve noticed with my wife and I, we get older, you become more lax with your kids. And I don’t mean like we were super disciplinarians, but we had fairly strict rules with the, say, our first. And I worry that as we kinda get older and lazier, that we’re not necessarily going to impart all the lessons on our daughter that maybe we did with our oldest. And so that’s something that I’m afraid of a little bit, if that makes sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:38]: It completely does. And I will say that it can be challenging. I don’t have boys, so I’ve only had girls. And both of my girls are very different from one another. Probably like your kids are not the same as one another as well. Different temperaments, different ways of processing, different emotional quotients. And that being said, you have to understand that they’re gonna bring something different to the table and that they’re going to need different things. So just like what you said, you know, your boys have needed different things as they’ve gotten older.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:12]: Your daughter is gonna need different things. And, you know, leaning on your wife for the experiences that she’s had is always is always something that I know that has helped me, but also the same extent that you have to be open to listening and learning, and know that at least for me, I had to learn a lot about my daughter’s not looking for me to solve things half the time. And as they get into those teenage years, a lot of times they just need you to listen. And if you’ve built that foundation for you and your daughter to have those type of conversations and she knows that you’re there, there’s a good chance that she will take advantage of that.

Nick Tasler [00:08:47]: And I will say that is something my wife has tried to teach me over the years that I don’t have to solve. Sometimes she just wants to talk about something. I mean, I don’t have to solve it. And to be perfectly candid, I struggle with that a lot. I chalk it up to part of the fact that, like, I make my living giving people advice and solving their problems. So it’s challenging for me to just listen and not try and solve a problem. But I I think I’ve gotten a little bit better at it, and I do believe that is going to be something that my daughter will want. And I hope and I have confidence in my ability to develop that muscle, but it’s going to be something that needs to be developed for sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:29]: So talking about not only the fear, but I guess as you think about the years that your daughter’s been in your life, talk to me about what’s been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter.

Nick Tasler [00:09:37]: For the most part, I think I’ve gotten lucky and that my daughter has been pretty easy to parent. She tends to be pretty fun loving, and I don’t know whether this is the just her personality or whether the fact that she has older brothers or whatever the case is, but she tends to not take things too seriously and to be maybe overly dramatic. Again, this is sort of stereotype. So it’s actually been pretty easy to be her dad so far. I will say probably one of the biggest things that’s been a challenge for me is my wife has, like, looked at this as an opportunity to she’s finally got her girl. And so she tends to be fairly lenient with her in a lot of ways, in ways that she was not lenient with our sons. So it’s kind of we almost have, like, switched the stereotypical roles of daddy’s little girl, so I just spoil her all the time. I’m actually the disciplinarian more with my daughter than maybe I was with my sons in part because I feel like my wife is so lenient that somebody has to put some guidelines in.

Nick Tasler [00:10:48]: And it’s not like my wife doesn’t have any guidelines, but it’s been a different role for me. And my wife has said, like, well, this is your girl. Don’t you wanna spoil her a little bit? And I do. And I’ve said, but I don’t want her to grow up being spoiled. And if you’re spoiling her, and if I spoil her, we’re gonna have a spoiled kid that has a hard time making her way in the world. And I don’t want that to happen with her. So that’s sort of unexpectedly been a challenge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:17]: Now, with anybody that has multiple kids, you have to understand who they are, but you also have to find time to be able to build those unique relationships with each one of them. And you’re a busy guy. You are doing a lot of things with your family, but also things outside of your family to be able to continue your own business, public speaking and working with clients and so on and so forth. So talk to me about balance and how do you balance work as well as being a father to each of your kids?

Nick Tasler [00:11:51]: It’s not easy. And I’ll tell you with my daughter, again, whether this is a function of age or gender, I’m not sure, but probably a little bit of both. I do have to be much more intentional about spending time with her. And the reason why is because my sons, you know, they’re involved in sports and they’re in things that it’s like a little bit easier for me to, well, frankly, to take active interest in. And they’re older now too. So our interests are becoming more aligned. And so it’s a bit more natural for me to spend time with my sons. With my daughter, again, largely because of her age as much as anything, I have to be more intentional.

Nick Tasler [00:12:34]: It doesn’t kinda come as naturally. But on the flip side, I will say, my wife will tell you and so will probably many people that know us, that of all my 4 kids, my daughter is the most like me personality wise. She is sort of like my clone as a 10 year old, except she used a girl and I was boy. And so that helps a little bit. I mean, it makes it hard in some ways, but we share a similar sense of humor. So, it’s like finding the things that because you don’t want spending time with your kids. You wanna be intentional about it, but you don’t want it to be like pushing a boulder up a hill. So, I think it’s really about this balance piece is about finding things where your interest kind of overlap in a line, finding things that they’re into, that you also have somewhat of an interest in so that it’s not just this complete act of self sacrifice.

Nick Tasler [00:13:24]: Because if it is, then I feel like there’s always gonna be an excuse on why you can’t do it today and why this doesn’t work and why this work thing that you’re working on is actually urgent and important and that has to take precedence. So I’ve really tried to like figure out with each of my kids, what are the things that they’re into that I can be also interested in? So it’s something I’m looking forward to as well as being intentional about. And for me in particular, I speak and I travel kinda all over the the country, the world speaking. And so what I started doing with each of my kids when they turn 10 is once a quarter, I will try and take one of them with me to a speaking event. And it’s become this thing that they really look forward to because they get to go and they get to stay in a hotel and they get to fly on an airplane and they get to do these exciting things. Now, my daughter, so in March, she will be 10. And in May, she’ll get to take her first trip with me. And so that’s one of the ways that I’ve I’ve really tried to, like, incorporate my kids into what I do rather than just me trying to insert myself into what they’re doing.

Nick Tasler [00:14:37]: And I think it’s just continuing to find these ways. If I’m home, I will try and take them to school once a week. Little things like that that again, it’s just being intentional about being a part of what they’re already doing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:49]: That intentionality is so important in finding those ways to connect is as well. And I wanna latch on to something that you said, which was that you wanna find things that you’re interested in to share with her, but at the same time, be interested in what she is interested in as well. And it may be something that you have no interest in. But that being said, even if she just wants to play Barbies and you really have no interest in playing Barbies, take the time to play Barbies because that time is important to her. And she will remember that more so than probably the time that you spent doing things that you wanted to do because eventually she’s gonna know that you probably aren’t the biggest fan of playing Barbies, but you’re still doing it, and you’re taking the time and effort.

Nick Tasler [00:15:39]: It’s a good point, Chris. And a couple of examples of that. So for one thing, she likes watching movies. All kids kinda do, but she really like she draws pictures of what she’s seen. She writes little stories. And and so she’s really into it on like a like a fully immersive experience. And, again, that was very much like me when I was her age. So we have found that my wife, on the other hand, doesn’t really like watching TV that much or movies.

Nick Tasler [00:16:03]: She doesn’t have the same level of interest. And so I, whenever possible, I will try and do that, do things like that with her. And then there’s another part of it too that okay. So if you’re so in the corporate world, so, like, when Google built their new headquarters, I don’t know, 10, 15 years ago, And I think Apple did the same thing. Like there was this big emphasis on creating these forced intersections where people from disparate parts of the business had to kind of like walk through the same foyer to use like all the bathrooms in the entire campus were in the same place simply because they wanted people from different parts of the business, having these random encounters with one another. Okay. So they couldn’t be in these separate silos. And I think there’s a similar thing that applies to us in our homes, in our families.

Nick Tasler [00:16:51]: So last night, for example, my daughter is in her room, she’s drawing and I’m out in the living room. I had to look at something on my phone, kind of for work. And I was just looking on my phone, but I’m like in the living room by myself. And I thought I can go into her room and do this exact same thing, and we’ll just be in proximity to each other. So, she’s sitting at this little desk in her room. I go in and just lay on her bed, and I’m still kinda like looking through my phone. I’m not advocating a great way to spend time with your kids is to scroll through your phone. It’s not what I’m saying, but I was just sort of doing this sort of mindless thing.

Nick Tasler [00:17:28]: It didn’t require deep concentration. So we were in the same proximity with each other. And when that happens, we just start having a conversation. She shows me what she’s drawing, and she goes back to drawing, and I make some comments about what she’s drawing. And so it was just kind of this like organic way to just be together even though we were sort of working on adjacent things. And I find that those little connections, they lead into conversations that you weren’t planning on having. They just invite each other into each other’s world. I’m inviting her a little bit into my world.

Nick Tasler [00:18:03]: She’s inviting me a little bit into her world, and you never know like what kind of connections that has. And that breeds conversations that we’re gonna have later on today or later this week or something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:15]: Now I mentioned at the very beginning of the episode that you recently put out a new book called Your Years of Wonder, Embrace Change, Grow Faster, Win bigger. And it truly is it’s a practical guide that allows for people to really think about where you are today, where you see yourself in the future, and how you can embrace that change and turn that change into action. And it’s it’s a very small book. So I’m gonna tell tell the people, you can get through that book in one sitting very easily, and it’s full of practical advice and stories that you can really relate to. And as I was reading it, I really felt connected to it, not only in the work that I do professionally, but also in the work that I do as a father myself. And I guess I’d like to go back to the beginning. And can you tell me the story of why you decided you wanted to put this book out into the world? You’ve written other books. And as I said, this is a very small book.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:15]: I mean, it’s not a it’s not a tome. It’s not a 300 page book. I mean, this book is less than probably a 100 pages and very practical, but tell me the story. Why did you decide to write this book now?

Nick Tasler [00:19:25]: So we call that an airplane read. It’s designed when the wheels leave the ground, you can read the book and be done before the wheels touch the ground again. That’s the whole point of it. But so why I wrote this book? Well, I had been writing books about change, leading change, dealing with change, and it’s a topic that’s sort of near and dear to my heart because my life has been filled with change, not traumatic changes for the most part. My family moved a lot when I was growing up, and my parents have continued moving a lot after all of us kids left the house. And so change has just been like a natural part of my life. And I myself now now with my own family, we have moved a lot. My kids have been to multiple different schools, and I feel like that’s given me a unique perspective on change as something that we don’t have to fear in the way that most of us quite often do here.

Nick Tasler [00:20:15]: And that actually, if you think back of every great achievement that you’ve ever had in your life, it almost certainly began during a season of change, which is exactly what inspired you to develop new skills, to think a little differently about the the perspective that you had on this person or that situation, which may help you grow, which then help you win later on. Change happens, you grow, then you win. This is sort of the pattern of our lives and the pattern of all of our greatest achievements. And I feel like that message had sort of been getting lost. So my last book prior to this one, it was called ricochet what to do when change happens to you. And that one was really more about kind of resilience. So you have this bad thing happen to you. You have this difficult change that you’re going through.

Nick Tasler [00:21:05]: How do you survive it? And that is an important thing. But what occurred to me is it was short changing the value of change, which is it’s not just something that we have to survive. It can actually be the springboard quite often is the springboard to something even better. And I make that case for business, and it’s when, you know, I see this in my clients all the time. And I think the same thing is true. Parenting is a phenomenal example of this phenomenon. You have this change. And for me, you know, when we went from 0 kids to 1 kid, it was a seismic shift in my life, in my marriage.

Nick Tasler [00:21:46]: And I would be lying if I said it was beautiful and fantastic from day 1. It was not. The first year that we were parents was the hardest year, still to this day, the hardest year of our marriage, hands down, hands down. And side note, I feel like nobody told me that before we started having kids. And it’s because and I think it’s a common experience that lots of parents have, but you almost feel ashamed of yourself to admit that because bringing this new life into this world, finally having a family is supposed to be this beautiful, glorious experience, this blessing from God. And it is, but it’s not easy. It requires some a serious adjustment from a life with no kids to a life with kids. And I was not ready for that adjustment, to be honest with you. And but I can say now I grew so much in that year. I mean, in very practical ways, my productivity, my time management, I feel like I discovered 20 new hours in the day, things that I never could have imagined that I would be able to do as, say, a bachelor. All of a sudden, I find a way to squeeze these into a very tight time frame because I was forced to because of that change. And so that’s kinda the idea of your year of wonders is that we all go through these seasons of change that feel very difficult in the beginning. But when we look back on it, we realize we had so many insights, so many wonders, so many growth moments that we didn’t quite recognize in that time. But we look back on and say, I’m a different person because of that.

Nick Tasler [00:23:26]: And I’m a better person because of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:29]: So talk to me about how you personally have taken what you’ve written here, taken it beyond the organizational context, and are sharing it not only with others, but working with your own kids to help them to understand these concepts.

Nick Tasler [00:23:44]: So one example that I use with my kids all the time is this idea of agile optimism. Okay? And so I like to say there’s two kinds of optimism. There is fragile optimism, which is sort of where we believe We convince ourselves that we have this outcome, this desired outcome, and we are going to achieve it. Things are going to work out. We are going to achieve this outcome, and we feel empowered, and we feel confident, and we feel excited for a time. We feel excited and empowered right up until things don’t go according to our plan. And now all of a sudden, this sense of confident optimism, this fragile optimism shatters into a 1,000 little pieces, hence the term fragile. Agile optimism is we go into some new venture.

Nick Tasler [00:24:28]: Okay? So with my kids, maybe it’s starting a new school. Maybe it’s starting a new sport. Maybe it’s starting a new activity and or just developing a different skill set within one of these activities that they’re already doing and already interested in. And to go in and understanding that you might not get the outcomes you’re looking for every day of practice or every game, but you’re going to have insights that are going to lead to better outcomes shortly down the road. So it’s this notion of continuous learning to understand that the process of growth is almost always 2 steps forward, 1 step back. K? And so to properly calibrate their expectations and to help them notice and recognize that growth is still happening even though there was this setback, even though you had this short term failure, even though you had this disappointment. In the long term, when you zoom out, growth is still happening. You’re still getting better.

Nick Tasler [00:25:24]: You’re still improving. These big exciting outcomes are still on the horizon, but there’s gonna be these insights and setbacks along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:33]: I love that. And, I mean, it definitely is tangible and something that I think all of us should be trying to teach our own kids. And I appreciate that you’ve put that out there and put this book out into the world in that regard as well. If people wanna find out more about the book and also more about you, where should they go?

Nick Tasler [00:25:52]: The best place square one is nicktassler.com. So I would say start there. If you’re on Instagram or LinkedIn, you can find me there. Facebook as well, but nicktassler.com is ground 0.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:03]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Nick Tasler [00:26:09]: Yes, sir.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:10]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Nick Tasler

Love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis

Now when was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Nick Tasler [00:26:19]: I’m gonna need to come back on that one later. No. I could say I’ll say there was a trip that I took her on about 2 or 3 years ago when it was just me and her. I took her to SeaWorld in Orlando again for a trip that I was already planning to go on. And we just had this moment where I’m I remember she was sitting there eating one of these giant pretzels, and I don’t know. There was just something in that moment when she just kinda looking at me, and I could see that, like, we had just reached the new level of connection. And I wasn’t trying to teach her anything in the moment. I wasn’t trying to solve any problems of hers.

Nick Tasler [00:26:53]: We were just being together, and that felt like a success to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:57]: Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Nick Tasler [00:27:00]: I think they would describe me as a teacher who makes lame jokes and takes an interest in what they’re doing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:09]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Nick Tasler [00:27:11]: I think both my dad and my father-in-law, both. And they have, interestingly enough, 2 very different personalities and styles of bothering, but I learn incredibly valuable lessons from both of them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:27]: Now you’ve given a lot of piece of advice today, things that I think every father should think about and consider for their own style of fatherhood, their own way of fathering. As you think about all dads out there, what’s one piece of advice you’d want to give to every father?

Nick Tasler [00:27:42]: I think the thing that’s been most helpful for me on a regular basis is to look into the future and say, in 10 years from now, I’m going to be this old. So take your age plus 10 years. My child is going to be this old and or children. And I go through each of them, all 4 of mine. They’re gonna be this old. This one’s gonna be 25. This one’s gonna be 23. This one’s gonna be 19.

Nick Tasler [00:28:03]: This one’s gonna be 17. And then say, thinking from that perspective, what do I want to remember doing or not doing in this moment, this day, this week? And I find that quite often totally reshuffles my priorities in that moment, and I make a much better parenting decisions with just asking myself that one question.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:25]: Well, Nick, I just wanna say thank you for sharing what you have done as a father thus far, And thank you for writing this book that definitely makes you think outside the box and think about things that you may be able to incorporate into your own fatherhood, own work journey. And I truly wish you all the best.

Nick Tasler [00:28:45]: Thank you, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:45]: We’re all in the same boat, And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:38]: Be the best dad you can be.

Social Media and Fatherhood: Dr. Stuart Ablon’s Approach to Successful Parenting

February 10, 2025 by dadofdivas

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In the latest episode of the Dad & Daughter Connection podcast, we talk with Dr. Stuart Ablon, a psychologist and director at Think Kids at Massachusetts General Hospital. This episode is packed with vital insights on effective communication, the challenges of social media, and the importance of empathy in parenting. In this blog post, we delve into some of the key topics covered in their discussion and explore how fathers can better connect with their daughters through listening and understanding.

The Power of Listening

Dr. Ablon emphasizes a listening approach that includes asking questions, making educated guesses, reflecting back, and providing reassurance. Listening is a fundamental tool that fosters empathy and understanding. Rather than focusing on trying to motivate children to behave in specific ways, Ablon suggests that listening and collaborating on solutions can lead to more meaningful and lasting outcomes.

Balancing Work and Family Life

One of the challenges highlighted by Dr. Ablon is maintaining a balance between work and family life. In today’s fast-paced world, the boundaries between work and home are increasingly blurred. Ablon advocates for the importance of being organized and efficient to preserve family time. This balance is crucial in ensuring fathers can be present and engaged in their daughters’ lives.

Navigating Social Media

Social media’s impact on children’s brain development and mental health is a significant concern for today’s parents. Dr. Ablon explains that while social media apps are designed to be addictive, leading to mental health risks, the introduction of social media should be based on individual child’s skills, such as impulse control, rather than a specific age. He advises parents to start conversations about social media early, focusing on listening rather than immediately solving problems. Resources like “YourBrainOnSocialMedia.org” and the Shaw Family Foundation provide valuable guidance for parents.

Empathy as an Essential Skill

Ablon’s philosophy, “kids do well if they can,” underscores the idea that individuals, including dads, perform to the best of their current abilities. Building empathy involves understanding another person’s experiences and perspectives without necessarily having personal experience or agreement. This understanding is crucial in shaping healthy relationships and solving behavioral issues collaboratively with children.

Consistency and Role Modeling

Dr. Ablon emphasizes the importance of consistency and modeling the behavior parents wish to see in their children. Children are quick to detect hypocrisy, making it essential for parents to recognize and own their mistakes honestly. He suggests that dads unsure of how to start conversations about challenging topics like social media should focus on easier aspects and choose optimal settings for discussions.

This episode offers indispensable advice for fathers aiming to build strong connections with their daughters. By prioritizing listening, balancing work and family, navigating the complexities of social media thoughtfully, and fostering empathy, dads can create an environment where their daughters feel understood and supported. Want to be a part of our new community? Fill out this short survey to tell us more!

Remember, effective communication and empathy are cornerstones of successful parenting. As Dr. Ablon reminds us, listening is not just hearing words but truly understanding the feelings and perspectives behind them.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to The Dad & Daughter Connection podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters’ lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you know, we have a conversation together to be able to help you walk on this path that you’re walking on, to help your daughters to become those strong, independent women that you want them to become. None of us walk into fatherhood knowing exactly what we’re doing. There is no one right way to be a father. There’s no one right manual. So it is so important for us to be able to be on this journey together, to be open to listening, to learning, and to hearing what others have to say, and to be able to find things that we can take and put into action with our own kids. That’s what this podcast is all about.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]: Every week, I love being able to be on this journey with you, but also to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that are bothering in their own way, but also that have resources that you can draw from to help you on this journey that you’re on. Today, we got another great guest with us today. Dr. Stuart Ablon is with us today, and Stuart is the founder and director of Think Kids in Think Kids in the department of psychiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital. He’s an award winning psychologist. He is the Thomas Stenberg Endowed Chair in Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School, the author of 3 books, changeable, handpicked by Malcolm Gladwell, Adam Grant, Dan Pink, and Susan Cain for their Next Big Idea Club, The School Discipline Fix, and Treating The Collaborative Problem Solving Approach. I’m really excited to have him on today. We’re gonna be having a conversation about him as a father himself, but also we’re gonna be talking about social media and the impact of social media on our kids and some of the things that he’s been delving a little bit deeper in, into looking at this, into identifying ways in which we might be able to work with our own kids on this as they’re getting older and starting to utilize social media for themselves. So that being said, I am so excited to have Stuart here today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:42]: Stuart, thanks so much for being here today.

Stuart Ablon [00:02:44]: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. It’s, an honor to be here. I’m looking forward to the discussion.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:49]: Well, it’s my pleasure having you here today. And the first and foremost thing that I love doing is getting to know you more as a father. So I wanna turn the clock back in time. I know you you have 3 kids, and I’m gonna focus on your daughter. I mean, that this is the the Dad & Daughter Connection podcast. And I know you’ve got an 18 year old daughter that’s about to be grown and flown and out of the house and head into college, but I wanna go all the way back, all the way back to that first moment that you found out that you’re gonna be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Stuart Ablon [00:03:15]: Oh, gosh. Wow. You’re taking me by surprise here, and I have to say just your question alone gives me goosebumps because I I do remember sitting there and watching the ultrasound and we actually had 2 older sons. And with our 3rd child, we decided that preparation trumped surprise. And so no longer were we gonna be surprised by boy or girl. Preparation with the 3rd was a good idea. So and when they said you’re having a baby girl, I remember just being sort of overcome, frankly, with emotion and so excited. Daunting a little bit because I felt like I got this boy thing down a little bit and it’s a experience near, but but so excited to have a girl join our family as well.

Stuart Ablon [00:03:52]: And I have to say it’s a little tough imagining and extending her off to college and that chapter of my life being done. But, yeah, it’s been my greatest pleasure in my life really is raising these children and having a daughter as the baby, the last one, incredibly special, and she’s a special kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:10]: Well, one chapter closes, but another chapter opens. So you’re definitely never done being a father. And fatherhood is not always an easy thing. There’s gonna be ups. There’s gonna be downs. And I talk to a lot of dads about being a father to a daughter, and many of the dads say that they walk into fatherhood being a little fearful. But especially when they have a daughter, there’s some fear that goes into that. What would you what would you say was your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Stuart Ablon [00:04:38]: Well, and honestly, I I have to say, I did feel fear, but I also felt, like, equal measure, just excitement and just being thrilled for the experience of having a daughter. And, you know, I I don’t wanna try to call it fear, but I felt maybe you could call it pressure, a little bit of anxiety to really be the kind of role model for her that would set the stage for, honestly, the kind of relationship she would wanna have in her life and potentially with men and partners in her life in the future as well, depending on how, you know, everything panned out for her. So I felt some some, you know, I think, inherent pressure, in that regard. And just to protect her and take care of her because the world can be a scary complicated place, period, and particularly for young girls and women. And so there was that feeling as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:27]: So you talk about fear. And as you go through you talked about phases of fatherhood, and you go through a number of phases of fatherhood as your children are getting older. As you think back to those different phases with your own daughter, what was the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Stuart Ablon [00:05:44]: When I think about all the sort of joys of fatherhood when it comes to a daughter, I think the hardest part for me is trying to find a way to be close to her and involved with her in areas that typically fall into the this is mom’s territory. And, you know, I’m the kind of parent who I wanna be involved in everything. And the boys, there were no limitations. And then along comes some issues especially around puberty and beyond that it’s like, oh, that’s not typically something that dad’s involved in. And wanting to normalize that actually dads can be involved in those things as well. And and, you know, so but how to walk that line respectfully, carefully, and be able to be a part of things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:28]: I think that’s so important, and so many dads with daughters have to walk that road and figure out how they can be a part of it, be there for their child even though and empathize with their child and try to understand what they’re going through even though they’re never gonna truly understand.

Stuart Ablon [00:06:44]: Well, and this is where, you know, I think sometimes people misunderstand. They think empathy means you have to have walked in somebody’s shoes when actually the the word empathy, it really means to understand, and you can work really hard to try to understand somebody else’s experience, perspective, concerns, etcetera, even if you don’t share them. And in my work, I’m always reminding people empathy also doesn’t mean agreeing or disagreeing. It just means trying to understand, which is something that I try to work really hard to do as a dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:12]: Now you’ve been busy. I talked about all the different accolades, all the things that you’re doing, working at Mass General, working at Harvard, being an author, doing a lot of different things. And as you were doing all of those different things, you’re also balancing and trying to find that balance between profession and home life and whatever hats you’re wearing. Talk to me about balance and what you had to do to be able to balance work and raising your kids.

Stuart Ablon [00:07:42]: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s the it’s one of the biggest challenge for working parents. And, you know, for me, I I have to say, I I really have felt strongly all along that I wasn’t gonna be somebody who was working all the time on the weekends and in evenings and things like that. And I really wanted to preserve a lot of family time and be present for my kids and show up at all their games and all their events and recitals and everything. And to me, that meant really having to be super efficient, to be honest, and make sure that I was, like, highly organized and efficient and effective. And I have traveled a lot for my work. So when I have to travel, making the absolute most of those times, so that when I know I come back, I’m ready to be there with the kids, which is why, you know, historically, you wouldn’t see me watching many movies on an airplane. You’d see me cranking away, getting my work done so that I could arrive back and be present.

Stuart Ablon [00:08:34]: But it’s really hard, especially in this new reality where the sort of boundary between work and home life is eroded. You have to be really diligent about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: Now I mentioned at the beginning of this that you have been working very closely, with Mass General, but also with some of the work that you’re doing with some other nonprofit organizations on looking at social media and understanding the impact of social media and on kids today. I would love to delve a little bit deeper on some of the work that you’re doing. If you can give my give me a little bit more context and what you’re learning in regards to how social media and electronics use in general is impacting maybe the brain development of our kids, but also the interactions, the relationship building, the social skills, etcetera, that kids are trying to maneuver through in this time and age.

Stuart Ablon [00:09:32]: Sure. I’d be happy to. You know, I think this is, in my mind, the biggest parenting challenge of our generation as parents, because there’s been, frankly, a massive social experiment that’s been going on with our children’s brains and mental health as they’ve been exposed to social media and have smartphones in their hands and at their side at every moment. And I’ve seen this in my eldest is 25. My My youngest that we were talking about is 18. Just in those 7 years, remarkable differences in sort of the influence and the impact of smartphones and and social media in particular on our kids. And there’s no doubt there’s an incredibly strong correlation between the amount of, for instance, social media use and risk for mental health issues. And we don’t have the kind of research that can tell whether this is correlational, whether it’s the more time you spend on them, the the worse your mental health is, or could go in the opposite direction.

Stuart Ablon [00:10:24]: But we do know that these apps that kids are spending most of their time on are sort of built algorithmically to addict. They are built to just have the kids want more and more and more and more and attach themselves to them. And there are a number of consequences to that and not particularly healthy for when we look at how human brains develop in the best of cases, sort of healthy human neurotypical brain development. Those are not the ideal circumstances for our brains to develop in this social world that we live in. There’s a ton of reasons to be really worried about the impact of social media on our kids’ mental health. Not to say that it’s all evil and terrible because particularly for some kids from historically, marginalized communities, those kids can find incredible connection on social media and belonging, but it’s complicated for them as well. And for most kids, it’s a big risk. Now the work that I’ve historically done over the last few decades, I’ve specialized in helping parents and other adults work together collaboratively with kids to try to solve really tough problems that are involved in very concerning behavior.

Stuart Ablon [00:11:29]: And I’ve done work in homes, schools, treatment centers, hospitals, prisons, all kinds of places over the years. And we’ve developed an approach that’s been shown to help adults problem solve together with kids, decrease concerning behaviors, solve problems, help build or restore our relationships with kids and help kids build the skills they need to handle things more independently in the future. So why do I say that? Well, because a partner, the Shaw family foundation here in Boston approached us because they’ve been doing a lot of work on the impact of social media on our kids and their mental health. And one of the things that kept coming up all the time from parents is parents were saying, okay. It’s great to hear about all these parental controls that we may be able to use. It’s great to hear that legislation is coming down, you know, down the pike soon to try to protect our kids. But what do we do in the meantime? And what most parents, most of us are told is you need to be talking to your kids about social media. So for me, as a dad, I need to talk to my daughter about social media.

Stuart Ablon [00:12:26]: Well, Chris, I don’t know if you’ve had these conversations, but in my experience, I’m working with tons of parents. Most parents try to have these conversations, and the experience is easier said than done. And it either, like, goes nowhere or gets, like, conflictual. And either case, it ends up with us dads being, like, okay. I’m out. Forget it. Like, I don’t you know, this is that’s it. I tried.

Stuart Ablon [00:12:49]: As opposed to an ongoing conversation, which is really what we need to be having with our kids. So that’s the work we’ve been doing is trying to equip parents with the skills to have these conversations with our kid, and we have sort of a pretty clear formula for how to do that, honestly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:05]: So talk to me about that strategy. And as you said, it’s not a one time conversation that you have to have. But I guess a lot of times, parents are getting mixed information when they look online or they talk to others about when did you introduce your kids to social media? And maybe that’s not the right question to ask is when, but maybe it’s what skills your kids really need to have to be able to manage the responsibility of being on social media. So I guess in you hearing both of those pieces, is there a right age? Or are there specific skills that we need to be teaching our kids first to allow for them to be prepared enough to manage the responsibility of being on social media in general.

Stuart Ablon [00:14:00]: Yes. To manage the responsibility and to protect and safeguard themselves, their their mental health, etcetera. So the answer to your question, you know, is there a right age or is it about the sort of skills that a kid has? The answer is yes. It it you know, it’s both. The reality is the longer you can hold out, the better. There’s a lot of good research that shows if you can hold out till somewhere at least in the 10 to 13 range, it’s gonna be a lot better for a kid’s mental health. 15 might be ideal, but that’s hard to do these days with everybody else on social media. So the longer you can in that window, the better.

Stuart Ablon [00:14:34]: But it depends. It really depends on your kid’s skills. How socially skilled are they? How much impulse control do they have? These things vary. Not all 10 year olds have the same level of impulse control. Some 13 year olds have 10 year old level of impulse control, for instance. So, you know, that really has to be taken into account. But, you know, we have a lot of resources. The website that, we created together, the Shaw Family Foundation, sponsored all this work and has organized this all.

Stuart Ablon [00:14:59]: The website is called your brain on social media. Your brain on social media dot org. Ton of resources that can guide parents in making these kinds of decisions. You know, regardless of whether your kid’s on social media now, we’re thinking about it, what age, etcetera, ton of resources there. And one of the big resources you’ll see is the part that I’ve been heavily involved in, which is how how to talk to your kids about social media. Although I was joking the other day, I think it’s a little bit of a misleading title because what we really ought to call it is how to listen to your kids when it comes to social media. Because the most effective collaborations with our children, the sort of foundation of them is listening to our kids first and foremost.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:40]: And sometimes dads are not always the best at listening. So we have to keep that in mind is that sometimes we try to fix way more than we try to hear what’s being told to us, especially from our daughters. And I think that it’s so important, like you said, that we do have to be able to listen and and really hear what they’re saying. And you have to start early to be able to set that relationship up.

Stuart Ablon [00:16:05]: Absolutely. We have a bit of a philosophy that guides our work when it’s applied to kids. It it sounds like this. It it goes, kids do well if they can. Not kids do well if they want to. And if they’re not doing well, we just gotta make them want to. But kids do well if they can. We we think that all kids are doing the best they can with the skills they have to handle what the world’s thrown at them, but we apply this to adults as well.

Stuart Ablon [00:16:24]: And we should most certainly apply it to dads, which is to say dads do well if they can. So we dads may not always be great at listening, but we’re doing the best we can with the skills we have. And here’s the good thing, we can build those skills. And to your point, Chris, the earlier we build them, the better for us getting better at it and for building a relationship with our daughters that really emphasizes listening, understanding and collaborating. And it’s one of the things I spend a lot of time doing is actually teaching people how to listen because we tend to jump to solutions very quickly. And, you know, I think if we’re really being honest with ourselves, when we’re talking to somebody, somebody’s saying something to us, we tend to spend more time thinking about how am I going to respond to what I’m hearing than let me make sure I really understand what I’m hearing. But that can be taught. You can learn how to do that.

Stuart Ablon [00:17:14]: It’s one of the things that we we show when it comes to these conversations around social media is there are some very clear guideposts you can follow to make sure you’re really focusing on listening. It’s

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:23]: so important to do, and it’s not always the easiest thing, and you’re gonna have you’re probably gonna stumble more times than not, and you’re gonna have to pick yourself up and just try again. And the nice thing is is that your kids will your kids tend to forgive you a lot more than others will, and they will give you a lot more grace in regards to the amount of times they’ll forgive you. So especially when they’re young. So keep that in mind. As you’re trying to have these conversations, don’t be afraid of them. Jump in. Talk about the things that you’ve had problems with and that you’ve been kind of drawn into yourself because even adults can be drawn in to the addictiveness of social media. And if we can get drawn in, that means our kids are gonna be drawn in even quicker.

Stuart Ablon [00:18:07]: Absolutely. The thing is that listening is so hard, frankly. I often recommend to parents when they’re approaching trying to do some problem solving around social media to not even try to problem solve in the first conversation. To have your first conversation simply be listening. The process of empathizing, gathering information from your child, trying to understand their perspective, their point of view, asking a lot of questions, taking guesses if you need. Anytime you hear something from your child, reflecting back to them what you’ve heard to make sure you’ve got it correctly. Those kinds of things to really understand whatever aspect of social media you’re trying to talk about. And, you know, that’s one thing, Chris, we haven’t really covered, but I think another mistake that we dads and parents in general tend to make is trying to have a conversation about social media at large.

Stuart Ablon [00:18:52]: Way too big. I always tell people bite off some piece that you can chew, whether that’s like use of social media after school that’s getting in the way of homework time or it’s keeping kids up at night or you’re worried about a particular aspect of social media, like being stuck on tracking where your friends are at all times that makes you feel like you’re left out of different things to being on in the, on social media or your phone in the car when you ordinarily could be connecting with other people or, your phone finding its way to the dinner table or things like pick a thing to start and ideally low hanging fruit. That’s something you can get some traction on, pick an aspect, one piece first and start there and start with the listening.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:32]: Now one of the other questions that I guess that I ask is about consistency. And what comes to mind is, as I was talking about your kids giving you grace, I think they also are very much watching you. And how do you talk to parents about dealing with inconsistency when it comes to what you may be doing versus what you’re telling them that they should be doing and how you have some parity there?

Stuart Ablon [00:20:01]: We just hosted an event focused on this topic, and we were joking that one of my fellow panelists was saying that kids are like heat seeking missiles, I think she said, for, hypocrisy, and this is a great example of that. Like, if you try to set some boundaries, some expectations, rules around social media use, and then you violate them yourselves, Oh, look out. You are going to be called out. But honestly, rightfully so in most cases. I mean, it’s like any other behavior that we’re concerned about with our kids. We have to model as parents the way we want them to go about this. And as you said earlier, Chris, that’s hard. It is really easy for us to get caught up in the addictive algorithms of things we’re scrolling on and 20 minutes later feel like I just wasted 20 minutes of my life when I could have been connecting with my daughter being out doing something active, like all kinds of things.

Stuart Ablon [00:20:47]: So it’s okay to mess up. We’re not gonna be perfect models all the time, but what’s important is to own it when you mess up. And to be able to recognize and point out to your daughter that, you know, you struggle with this as well. And I’ve actually had instances where my daughter who’s holding me accountable to the things that I’ve suggested we ought to be practicing as a family. Now having said that, it is also okay for us parents to have different set of expectations for, for instance, social media use than kids because our brains are much more fully developed, and we hopefully have more impulse control and perspective taking skills and things like that so that we can navigate this world a bit more successfully. So it’s okay. Just like it’s okay in a family to have different expectations for different kids because they’re at different developmental levels. That’s okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:41]: So for the Dad that’s listening right now that is at his wit’s end, he doesn’t know how to start this conversation or really broach the topic to get things moving. Where would you have him start?

Stuart Ablon [00:21:53]: Well, first thing I would say to him is, like I said a few moments ago, pick an aspect of this conversation you wanna focus on. And what are the easier ones than one of the harder ones? So pick any aspect of it. If it’s, like I said, that your your daughter wants to be on her phone when she’s going to bed and you’re worried that, you know, it’s keeping her up way too late and making her tired the next morning, etcetera, etcetera. Make that the focus. Just that piece. And then I would say to him, give some thought to when and where and while doing what it’s gonna be best to have this conversation. Because oftentimes, the worst thing we can do, Chris, is, like, call the family meeting and sit down looking at each other, and it’s, like, very disregulating for kids. So pick a time when you know your daughter is more accessible.

Stuart Ablon [00:22:36]: Like, when my daughter was younger, she loved to go out in the street in front of our house and have me throw a football back and forth with her. It’s this sort of patterned, repetitive, rhythmic, regulating experience, and we can have great conversations. Other times, it’s when we’re in the car and she’s captive and we don’t have to look at each other or, you know, it it just pick your spots, I think is the first thing to say. But then I would say to him, kick it off with a neutral observation. Say something that about the problem that that doesn’t put your daughter on the defensive immediately. Say something like, hey, I’ve noticed that, or it looks like, or it seems as if, and fill in the blank with the situation. Hey. It seems as if you’ve been on your phone a bunch or you’ve wanted to be on your phone a bunch right before you go to bed and I’m just sort of curious about that.

Stuart Ablon [00:23:21]: Fill me in. What what’s up with that? So you’re just trying to launch a conversation with as neutral an observation as possible and just ask for information and then you hop right into listening mode. And I tell people I I’ve studied this. I studied this for about 5 years and I found when we are listening to our kids we should be doing 4 things and 4 things only. Asking questions, taking educated guesses if need be because they’re having a hard time filling us in, reflecting back to them in our own words, anything we’re hearing from them to make sure we’re getting it correctly. And the 4th thing is if they start to get upset or shut down or anything, reassure them that this is not about you imposing your will upon them, that you’re really wanting to understand their experience, their concerns, their perspective. So for me, that looks like saying things like, hey, you’re not in trouble, Or I’m not saying you can’t. I just wanna understand what’s going on here.

Stuart Ablon [00:24:09]: I know there must be an important reason that, for example, you’re on your phone a lot before bed, and I just wanna understand that. So help phone me in. Questions, guesses, reflect anything you heard, provide reassurance, and just do that. That would be my guidance to this hypothetical dad we’re talking about is just do that piece first. Don’t worry about your concerns, your perspective, your point of view, your proposed solutions. Hold on to those. We’ll get to those later. Listen first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:33]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Stuart Ablon [00:24:40]: I think so. I hope so.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:42]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Stuart Ablon [00:24:43]: Joy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:44]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded in being a father to a daughter?

Stuart Ablon [00:24:48]: Watching my daughter interact with adults at school and getting a chance to sort of see her in action in her school felt like I’ve done my job here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:00]: If I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Stuart Ablon [00:25:04]: Probably silly, not taking myself too seriously. But since we’re coming off of a bladed Father’s Day with my daughter and she wrote me the sweetest of cards, she also described me as interested and always interested in what she’s up to and supportive. And so even just getting I get choked up just thinking about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:22]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Stuart Ablon [00:25:25]: I mean, that’s an easy one. You know, my dad, same thing. You know, my dad is the ultimate support. You know, he’s like in your corner at all times. And the other thing about my dad is my dad, if you ask my dad to do anything, anything, his answer is, yep. Let’s go do it. Always up for everything. So tremendous role model and mentor as a dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:47]: Now you’ve given a lot of piece of advice. You’ve shared your own journey and definitely given a lot of advice as it comes to social media. But in thinking about all dads out there, what’s one piece of advice you’d wanna give to every dad?

Stuart Ablon [00:26:01]: A piece of advice I would give to every dad is resist the temptation to think that our role as dads is to motivate our children to behave in the ways that we want them to behave and sort of incentivize them. And instead, embrace that notion that I said before, which is kids do well if they can, but all our kids are trying to do the best they can. It’s it’s infrequently a lack of motivation that’s getting in any kid’s way. Listen hard, empathize, try and understand where they’re coming from, and then collaborate and invite our kids to be co authors of solutions because it’s not only great practice for our kids, but my goodness, the kids come up with some great ideas too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:39]: They sure do. Now I know that you mentioned the foundation that you’re working with, but if people wanna find out more about you, the work that you’re doing, where should they go?

Stuart Ablon [00:26:48]: Thanks. Sure. So the program that that I have the pleasure of directing at at Mass General Hospital is called Think Kids. And if people go to think kids, the word think and the word kids put together dot org, they’ll find all about the resources we offer there. People can find me, personally at, stewartablon.com. That’s stewartab l0n.com. And the partnership with the Shaw Family Foundation, that’s spelled shah, Family Foundation, around social media. A tremendous resource is your brain on social media.org.

Stuart Ablon [00:27:24]: I really encourage people to check it out. There’s so much rich information there and really easy resource guides to walk us parents, us dads through how to have these collaborative conversations. Really helpful. So I encourage people to use those resources.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:39]: Well, Stuart, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for being here and the work that you’re doing to help parents to maneuver through this challenging time that we’re in, and I truly wish you all the best.

Stuart Ablon [00:27:52]: Well, it was great to meet you. Thank you for your work supporting dads on this difficult but incredibly fulfilling journey. I mean, that’s right. That’s fatherhood is is the most fulfilling and the most challenging thing, you know, you’ll do. So So thank you for supporting people. Thank you for having me on. I hope it’s helpful for people. And remember, dads do well if they can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:09]: We’re all in the same boat And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your a game. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:56]: Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Maniverse #18 – Being a “Yes” Man

July 30, 2024 by dadofdivas

Are you the type of person that will say “Yes” at the drop of the hat? Do you tend to over-commit yourself to things outside of your family? If so, you probably are a “Yes” man, and welcome to the club.

J-Mom and I have had many conversations about being over-committed, not only with work, but with outside activities. I fill my time outside of work not only with kids and family, but also with Rotary and church activities (I said yes to being on the church council).

So why do I have such a hard time saying no? I don’t exactly know why this is a problem. I think much of it goes down to being an experience junky. I love meeting new people and making a difference in the world around me. Now you may say that having my family and making a difference in their lives should be enough, and I know this, but I still find myself at times falling into this trap.

It also is not just in my out of work life where I do this. I also tend to over-commit in my work life as well. Now don’t get me wrong, I do accomplish my commitments, but I do tend to say yes more than I probably should!

So is there help for an over-commitment addict (as J-Mom would probably call me)? I did some research and found some great resources that I thought I would share with all of you (as I am not going to provide a top ten list of things you should do as I currently do not do them).

http://blogs.payscale.com/job_mom/2007/07/working-moms-an.html

http://www.mommd.com/avoidovercommitting.shtml

So do I think that I can change overnight? Not even slightly. Do I think that with hard work I could make this change? You bet I can. The biggest thing that I know I have to do is to actually do it… this will be the hardest thing for me. It is not that I do not want to be with my family…far from it. My family is my life, but also in my life as I have already mentioned, I crave interaction. I do not have a lot of friends that I do things with here where I live and these are ways for me to connect with people.

I also though understand that I need to be fair to J-Mom to allow her to also have these opportunities and to do things for her as well so that she has an identity outside of being a mom. I think at times my over-commitment gets in the way of her ability to separate herself from her role as mom…which is not fair in the least.

So today I am looking for your advice.

How do I get past this over-committed lifestyle with work and within my personal life?

How have you done it in your own life?

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Project 365 (34/365) – Ride ‘Em Cowgirl

July 26, 2024 by dadofdivas

100_6609, originally uploaded by dadofdivas.

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