raising girls Archives - Dad of Divas

How to Let Go and Let Grow: Encouraging Independence in Daughters

August 24, 2026 by dadofdivas

Are you a dad searching for practical ways to foster a stronger bond and raise your daughter to be capable, resilient, and self-assured? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Lenore Skenazy, journalist, author, and founder of the Free-Range Kids movement, for a timely, inspiring discussion on balancing love, trust, and independence in parenting.

Challenging the Culture of Fear

One of the episode’s powerful themes is how today’s parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing “what ifs” from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children’s experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

The Power of Trust and Letting Go

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential “trust loop,” where letting children try things on their own—whether it’s walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, “When adults step back, kids step up.” True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

Practical Steps for Parents

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they’re small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own “let grow” experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you’ll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

Join the Movement

This episode isn’t just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today’s anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]:
I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It’s not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that’s okay. That’s why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’m a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we’ve got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I’m really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you’ve ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she’s an author, she’s founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she’s often called America’s worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]:
Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we’ve become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad’s been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things he didn’t do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn’t expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn’t have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn’t have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]:
Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it’s not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn’t have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]:
And that didn’t bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]:
As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]:
Well, here’s the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he’s looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man’s, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don’t say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]:
And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It’s the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he’s very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he’ll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he’s just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he’s— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it’s an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]:
And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you’re putting somebody else’s emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]:
And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it’s the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what’s your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]:
Now, I know you said your dad’s been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]:
Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I’m pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and ’20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we’d get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]:
And God knows how many toothpicks he’d go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]:
Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I’m going to say the world, because you’ve been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let’s go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]:
Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he’d never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we’re always on the subways. We don’t have a car and he’s a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale’s fancy department store where we don’t shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]:
So he’d never been there before. And it’s built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today’s the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]:
He’d finally been let loose and he’d proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, ’cause it didn’t strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I’ll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That’s wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]:
But what if he wasn’t? What if he’d been thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that’s what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you’re not doing that too, if you’re not saying, well, I’d like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who’s, you know, 5’6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I’m not going to let her walk. And that’s a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I’ve been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you’d have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]:
How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]:
Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]:
Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]:
Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]:
Yeah, because it’s an extraordinarily rare crime. It’s not extraordinarily rare on TV. It’s pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn’t happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It’s generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you’re gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn’t let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]:
You know, there’s drunk drivers out there, there’s bad drivers out there, there’s elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn’t let them live in a house with stairs or there’s a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you’ll never see him again. And that’s, that’s as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it’s like, I can’t let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It’s like, I’m really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it’s like, well, you should be. It’s like, but I’m not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]:
Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I’m like, I’m just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don’t care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You know, from everything I’ve seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]:
But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]:
from everything I’ve read, it seems like it’s actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]:
Well, I think you’ve nailed it. The way I’ve started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I’d love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I’d never see him again and I would— couldn’t live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I’d be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won’t let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]:
It’s sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It’s not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend’s house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you’re sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there’s horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]:
First of all, you’re a parent, you’re going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you’re— you, you’ve given birth to a child and now you’re going to worry about them. There’s no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they’re thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they’re a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn’t remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you’re so proud, right? You’re so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you’re a parent. I’ll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]:
You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she’s out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]:
Yeah, it’s not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn’t there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I’ve raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we’re there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we’re there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]:
And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we’re always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that’s because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We’ve really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]:
But look, that’s part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don’t get that. It’s, it’s the fun of— well, it’s the fun of seeing your kid after you haven’t seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you’re so much taller and you’ve filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that’s why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]:
But it’s also about Stepping back, because it’s true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you’re with your kids, you see what they’re doing wrong. Oh, that’s sloppy. That’s a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn’t do it that way. Here, let me help. It’s just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]:
It’s not because you’re a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It’s because when you’re with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don’t want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids’ adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that’s free, free, free, free, um, that’s called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents’ permission. But without your parents. And then each month there’s a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there’s a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]:
You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it’s really just to create that action that I’m talking about, ’cause action breaks the cycle. You’re afraid this’ll be terrible. If you’re really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend’s kid go out together. They don’t have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]:
and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can’t see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we’re there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it’s so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It’s like, yeah, because they haven’t eaten. They haven’t eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]:
And we’ve taken that out and we’ve given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I’d say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there’s, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that’s also just for home use, quote unquote. It’s like a game. It’s like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there’s 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he’s right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]:
And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That’s a very constricted childhood and that’s a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that’s the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it’s, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody’s doing it. You don’t feel weird, you don’t feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn’t do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]:
But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you’re drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger’s and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that’s nice. Or the laundry. That’s good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]:
You know, it doesn’t take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I’ve seen is that it’s just this loosening. It’s just a little loosening. There’s a little bit of pride. There’s a little bit of movement. And then it’s like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What’s a post office, Mom? I’ll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]:
So I’d say any movement is better than no movement, and it’s often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]:
What’s some of your favorite stories of, we’ll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]:
This is the one that I’ve heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it’s worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, ’cause it’s almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She’s sort of the apotheosis of what’s happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who’s 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It’s, it’s like, because someone’s going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don’t know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let’s put it that way, or excessive, right? I won’t say crazy, I’ll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]:
But anyways, he comes home, he’s got the Let Grow experience, He’s a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He’s in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can’t I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she’s like, okay, because she’s been— she’s getting used to it. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s a word in psychology, I think it’s accommodating or whatever it is. She’s getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]:
And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there’s 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]:
And then they’re all over the neighborhood and they’re zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it’s like locusts. They’ll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she’s now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]:
live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she’s also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can’t believe it. I’m gonna call the school. You know, I’m gonna get out there. That’s so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]:
Don’t worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we’re handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can’t keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let’s call him Steve. You can’t keep being mean to Steve. You know, that’s just not fair, or, you know, we won’t ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it’s true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]:
I guess as I think about what you’re saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you’re saying. So you talk about what you’re doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]:
A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They’re not good helpers. They’re terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they’re part of. And so don’t thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]:
And then when they’re older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it’s really good advice. It’ll take longer, but in the end, you’ll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you’re doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children’s museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it’s because they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]:
And they told Group B, they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they’re struggling with a button or a toggle, that’s actually learning? They’re learning every time they try to do something, even if they’re not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]:
And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that’s just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]:
that’s very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can’t show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, ’90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]:
That’s all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they’re going to be online. I would be too. It’s the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]:
So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we’re going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]:
Friday afternoons, I’m gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I’m not gonna be watching them, but there’ll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they’ll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there’s, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]:
Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]:
Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I’ve been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor’s wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you’re trying something in the real world, at first you’re not good at it, whether it’s making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn’t fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I’ve done something like that before, or, I’ve never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you’re wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven’t done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]:
So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that’s all I’m saying. It’s just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]:
First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I’m just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it’s let’s go or let it grow or let’s get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it’s letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it’s actually quite hard, I don’t know. It’s let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]:
So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They’re gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she’d been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That’s a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I’m gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]:
Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]:
Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]:
As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]:
I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there’s a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you’ve heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can’t make them into something. We can’t make a physicist. We can’t make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can’t make a genius. You can’t make a jerk. There’s a lot that’s innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]:
And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can’t make an Einstein and you can’t really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]:
Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you’re doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I’ve fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we’ve done some good things too. But we’ve also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]:
You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that’s just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It’s like, that’s not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We’re all humans and we’re going to make mistakes. And I think that what you’re doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]:
Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Building Lasting Bonds: Intentional Fatherhood with Adam Angel

June 15, 2026 by dadofdivas

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In this powerful episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Adam Angel, father, therapist, and founder of the Dads with Wisdom community. Together, they explore what it really means to show up for your daughter—not just as a parent but as a vulnerable, intentional human being.

A recurring theme in their conversation is intentionality. Adam Angel shares touching stories about helping his daughter face challenges, like her anxiety before a swim test and building confidence in new activities like basketball and jiu jitsu. Instead of forcing outcomes, he strives to give her the safety and encouragement to try, fail, and choose for herself. As Adam Angel reveals, “I want you to see what it could look like…I’ll show you, and you can tell me if you want to do it after you try.”

The episode delves deeply into supporting your child through difficult moments, embracing open conversations about emotions, and being honest with your kids about your own struggles. Adam Angel reflects on the need for dads to be “open-hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but to be able to learn from her, and also grieve or struggle through something with her.” These moments of honesty, he suggests, build trust and teach kids about resilience and empathy.

Another core lesson: connection isn’t always about grand gestures; it’s often found in the consistent, day-to-day presence—whether it’s attending basketball games, settling in for bedtime, or making one-on-one smoothie dates. Adam Angel emphasizes that just “showing up and being there” in both small and big ways tells your daughter she can count on you.

This episode doesn’t shy away from tough realities, either—like how admitting mistakes and apologizing as a parent strengthens bonds, or the challenges of allowing your child independence in a world that sometimes feels unsafe.

Lastly, the conversation highlights the importance of community and vulnerability for dads. Through his Dads with Wisdom groups, Adam Angel sees firsthand the transformative impact of men supporting each other, breaking cycles of isolation, and learning together.

If you’re a dad—or anyone invested in raising confident, emotionally healthy daughters—this episode offers a wealth of practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement. Listen now and be inspired to connect more deeply, both with your child and yourself.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:
I love being able to have you here every week because it is an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for you and I to be able to learn and grow together. You know, I’ve got two daughters, you have daughters, and you’re here. And I applaud you for that. Because by showing up, that’s saying something. Because that means that you do want to create a stronger, more lasting relationship with your daughter. And that’s why this podcast is here. This podcast is here to help you, to give you some tips, some tricks, some tools for your toolbox to help you to be that dad that you want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]:
I love being able to introduce you to different people, different people with different experiences that can give you some help along the way, give you some perspective about things that might have worked, maybe they didn’t work, but it will help you to be able to frame how do you want to show up for your daughter. So I am really excited because we are having a brand new guest here today. Adam angel is with us. And Adam is a father of two. He’s got a. He’s got a son and a daughter, and we’re going to be talking about his daughter, of course, but we’re also going to be talking about a community that he has been building over a number of years called Dads With Wisdom. And it’s an. It’s a community that you might want to check out yourself, so we’ll learn a little bit more about that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:22]:
Adam, thanks so much for being here today.

Adam Angel [00:02:24]:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]:
I’m really excited to be able to have you. And for full transparency to everyone. Adam has been on a previous podcast with me. So my old in my past podcast, the Dads with Daughters podcast, Adam was on four years ago, so we’re moving forward in time. And now his daughter is nine years old. And I’m really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper into what’s happened over those years and what’s happened up till now. And I guess to start off today, one question that I, Adam, is, as you think about the relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughter and what made it so special?

Adam Angel [00:03:02]:
One of the most meaningful moments was when she was trying to pass the swim test right before the swim team. This was after we last talked. And I think in terms of being more active and trying to find a thing that she could do physically, that wasn’t something that came automatically to her. There was a lot of anxiety around sort of that or idea that it wasn’t good for her, meaning, like, didn’t fit her. And so really what I was navigating on my end was trying to figure out how much to push and how much to support and sort of leave it to her. And this was like a moment I’ll never forget, because as we had been doing swimming classes, I could see that she was, you know, getting some confidence, and she had. We ended up with this wonderful teacher who I started the training, and then I could see that she needed something from someone else and that had been really good and progressed. And then there was this moment where she wanted to pass a swim test and was really afraid.

Adam Angel [00:03:56]:
And we had set up the swim tester. You know, there was like, some date to do it, and if you passed that, then you had a chance at the swim team, which she could. I could definitely tell she was interested in, she expressed interest in. So anyway, so we’re driving there, and she started to get nervous, and she said, I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to do a swim test. And I said, you don’t have to do it. We’re already in the car. We’re already halfway there.

Adam Angel [00:04:21]:
You’re in your swimsuit. Let’s go there. We’ll be there. We’ll stand there. And if. If you don’t want to do it when you get there, we don’t have to do it, but I want to just go. And she said she agreed. She didn’t really say much, but she didn’t protest.

Adam Angel [00:04:32]:
And she can protest. She doesn’t have a problem with that. So we get there, and at the pool, we’re Standing there and she. They call for kids her age and she looks over and she’s about to say something to me. I see her shed one or two tears and I said, I just looked at her, I’m like, you good? And she just kind of nodded and she would just jump right in. And then she passed the test, which was just awesome. And honestly, right after she passed the test, she just jumped in, like with her friends, and then she started playing the rest of the afternoon in the pool. It was just like a lot of relief on both sides, I think, for both of us.

Adam Angel [00:05:09]:
And I was just appreciating what I took from that. And by the way, she. So she joined the swim team, and then the next summer she was on the swim team as well. And then she did during the year. So just seeing how this progressed. And I’m happy to share more about that, but that moment for me was a lesson for myself on how much to push, to not want it for anything, but for her, but also to not let her sort of go in the house, you know what I mean? And just not see what she might be missing. So, like, you know, here’s what it could be. I don’t need to push you any further than this.

Adam Angel [00:05:39]:
And it was a, it was a great moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]:
Now you just talked about the fact about pushing and trying to help your daughter to be able to achieve kind of those, those passions, those dreams that she has for herself, the things that she wants to accomplish. Talk to me about how you go about that support and what do you do to be able to support your daughter in pursuing those passions and dreams.

Adam Angel [00:06:02]:
What I’ve come to understand is like, I can help her through some low level skill building, meaning, like, you know, she wants to join something more serious. We’re going to give her that opportunity, structure. But first I need to support her in understanding that everyone has fear, everyone has these barriers. And then I show her how this has happened to me and I support her in getting her in front of these situations. Like, like an example was the pool. But later she. She ended up trying basketball and she ended up loving it. But the reason she loved it is she ended up doing a summer camp for a week, which was really high intensity, which I was a little worried that could send her the other way.

Adam Angel [00:06:44]:
But I always give her the opportunity to say, like, hey, like, you can try this and you could step away from it, but I want to just show you what it looks like, you know, what it could look like. My dad used to say to me, better to Be the tail of the lion than the head of the wolves. And I’ve shared that with my kids and they both like it. They enjoy that. They notice that. And last week was the first week that she. And I’ll tell you how that came about, but she decided she wanted to try jiu jitsu and so she did it and she enjoyed it. Whether she stayed with it or not, I’m not sure.

Adam Angel [00:07:12]:
But she stayed with basketball and she loves her neighborhood basketball team now too. So just to think of her last time we talked when she was 5, doing these different activities and just building this kind of confidence in ourself is just quite a progression. And I think ultimately it was, this is what it looks like. I’m here to support you through it. This is what it could look like at the very basic level. I’ll show you and you could tell me if you want to do it after you try it or even in the middle. If you want to give up, that’s okay. But I want you to see.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]:
I love the intention that you’re giving to that. And I guess one of the things that comes to mind are thinking about the intentional ways in which you’re working with your daughter and helping her to be able to not only see you as a real person and understand your background and what made you who you are, but also helping her through those, those fears, those anxieties and more. Talk to me more about some of those intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times. Because we all know that it’s not always easy, but there are challenging times too.

Adam Angel [00:08:17]:
So right around Covid hit, this was a really hard obviously for so many people. And we. She was four and she was three and a half and. Or three and a few months. And my son was just being born, which was crazy, 10 days in. And that was really hard moment. And I think of it as maybe the hardest moment for her and having to not let her go back to her pre K which was such a great place and so like everything from there and before that. But I’ve just like understood that, you know, there is just when you can’t do something, you have to grieve with your kids sometimes.

Adam Angel [00:08:51]:
And at that time I think I was just not equipped with the level of connection to myself and open heartedness for my own grief of what was happening. And I remember she held for a little bit a lot of shame at that time because I was like, you can’t go to school. And she was like basically telling Me, oh, I’m going to school. I mean, she fought me like it was the. I was the worst thing in the world and I was breaking my heart. I remember she, I think she bit me like that. She had never bitten me before, but she felt like that was very bad about that. But I told her, like, that’s what, first of all, that’s what, you know, she.

Adam Angel [00:09:23]:
Even years later, that’s what kids do and we work through it. And I wasn’t shaming her for that. And at some point, you know, sort of as she got older, she and many kids, you know, can hold shame around what they do or how they feel and so on, and just making it more and more open by having these conversations, especially while driving at night in these moments of like, intimacy and just being honest about how it was hard for me and what was hard for me and how I’m open to whatever is going on for her. And so it’s been wonderful to sort of be able to be that person for her. And I’ve grown and learned so much from her about my necessity of being open hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but just like be able to learn from her, but also to grieve, as I said, with her or struggle through something with her. And I think that honesty, you know, doesn’t mean that I’m giving up my authority and my, you know, being able to tell her, hey, this is what we need to do. Sometimes it just means that there’s a softness that’s available to her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]:
And your daughter’s getting older, not yet a preteen. We’re getting close into those tween years. How have you found that you are balancing guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence to grow into the person that she’s becoming?

Adam Angel [00:10:39]:
I had a moment where my wife and I keep having this conversation over and over. Like, there’s some friends that have phones and then I’ve told her she’s not having a phone and I’m not giving her any data when she will. Like, it’s just not on the table and I’ve told her why. And then at one point she was really, you know, pushing and I said, okay, I’m gonna explain again. And I gave her like in depth about how this either essentially she’s could be connected to many things that actually might scare her that people that I don’t know, there’s no checks and so on. And you know, that’s a bit high, high level for a nine year old. But she understood to some degree and Then that same day I said, you know, I wanted me and my wife and I talking about it, but I just decided to go for it because I wasn’t necessarily comfortable with it. But I was thinking this is the opposite way, to provide some opportunity for her to have freedom.

Adam Angel [00:11:32]:
And I sent her out with her brother without us on bikes. So he’s six, she’s nine. And I feel that she’s much more, even much more responsible, more than she already is, especially when he’s around and she’s in charge. I think that’s useful. Then it’s just like, guys go. And she like looked at me like, are you serious? And I’m like, I was like, this is the way that you can go and explore as opposed to on the phone. And I’m not going to come with you. I’ll be, I’ll be out there in 30 minutes or something.

Adam Angel [00:11:58]:
And I told her the perimeter, which was about a mile, we have like a park not too far from us, like a, both a school park and a community park. It’s a good amount of green, plus sidewalks. You know, she doesn’t have to cross many streets at all. And I said, told her she knows the route. Go, that’s where you can go. And I went out there 30 minutes later when my wife was like, can you go right? And I’m like, okay. And when I went out there and they were fine, they were fine. But I just like trying to juxtapose those two for her and for me, because it was hard, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s worrisome, but it was fine.

Adam Angel [00:12:31]:
It was totally fine. And I hope that it will continue to be fine when I send her out every day. So to kind of trust the people that we put her in hands, including

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:39]:
her own, you know, that brings up so much. I mean, and I think back to my own childhood and the way in which I was really a free range child in the sense that in my generation, I think our parents were like, yeah, go outside, go and come back. You need to be back by this time and we’ll see you later. We didn’t have phones, we didn’t have any of that. But, but I think that there definitely is a difference in the way in which we are. There’s a fear in a lot of parents to do that in the safety of our kids and, and whether we should be doing that. And there’s some reality to that as well. And I guess one thing that comes to mind as I hear you say that is that you’re providing your daughter with the ability for her to see that you trust her and that you are listening to her and that you want her to feel valued, heard, and also that you trust her to make good decisions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:32]:
And I guess as you think about that, what are some of the things that you’re doing intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Adam Angel [00:13:40]:
These are day to day things as opposed to like the big story. It’s like I thinking about having conversations about her friendships, little things, these conflicts that seemingly we would might say like what’s really this about this is not important or whatever but. But they’re very important. These are conversations about being enough, knowing that you’re, you’re okay to be different, to set it something as simple as she likes fashion set a trend as opposed to having to follow other people rebutting people or the boys in her class are like characterizing all girls in one way or mistreating her another classmate is so just hearing the story and being like, you know, that’s asking her how she feels about it, what maybe her frustration with it or and so on and then, and then pushing her to know that she’s okay regardless of others view of her, that it’s most important, it’s her own view. And that can seem trite, but it really is so central to her experience because that’s a lot of our hours of her day are with peers. And we make a point, my wife and I make a point of when we’re together, we’re together and like being connected, connected to them and like we do a lot of camping. So now she wears that and I bring that into the situation because I think that gives us space to be connected in a different way and have like her voice heard around different topics and just being with it and not so peer oriented because so much of her life can be because of school. And so like you know, it doesn’t mean they don’t do play dates.

Adam Angel [00:15:06]:
There’d be plenty of that and so on, but just kind of coming back to it and helping her understand herself and how she really feels and so she can rebut other people’s ideas around her with her own.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]:
I love that now none of us as dads are infallible. We’re humans, we make mistakes. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication?

Adam Angel [00:15:31]:
Maybe it’s good to use the day to day so that it feels more normal for people that are hearing it. Because I think when there’s moments where I move to anger, you know, with either one of the kids and sometimes or misunderstand because I made a judgment and about what they were doing and so on, or how they were speaking or so and so forth, it’s like, essentially what I’m doing is the opposite of what I just talked about, which is that I’m not waiting to listen. I’m not seeing my daughter as. There’s an idea in, like, the psychotherapy world that we. That I, like, trained in, this is my. As my profession, that we can see others at times and different moments as objects in our life as opposed to subjects in our shared life. And I think essentially objectify her. I see her as like, okay, she’s just someone in my life, and I can just say or do what I please.

Adam Angel [00:16:19]:
And like, it doesn’t. Again, doesn’t mean that I can’t have my authority of being okay, like, I’m the adult here. But it does mean that in those moments when I made mistakes and I think that they’re frequent enough and I can say, like, these moments, I just sort of like, this is how I. What I want to happen, and it’s not happening the way I want it to happen. And so how I characterize this, essentially, many times we have a parallel process between our kids and us. And like, in these moments, I’m like, I don’t want this. I want this to work this way. And she’s like, well, I want us to have this.

Adam Angel [00:16:49]:
And essentially we’re both having an experience of wanting something and then not be able to get what we want and then having a tantrum of, like, loss around it. Right? Like, I want this. And really what we both need to do on some level, and us first being the adult, is to accept that this is. May not going to work the way we wanted it to. And that sucks maybe for us, depending on situation. And then we can be with their grief if it’s not working out for them either. Or maybe we’re able to accommodate a certain situation. But the point is, is that there are a number of these mistakes.

Adam Angel [00:17:21]:
I don’t think it’s useful just say one big one. I think those happen frequent enough where I just like, oh, yeah, right. I just may not get what I want here. So. And then I maybe act out on my. My daughter by saying, you need to do this or you this. And maybe it comes out in anger. So.

Adam Angel [00:17:35]:
And I have to come back and apologize and then say, like, I didn’t see you in that moment. Or that was hard for me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]:
And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Adam Angel [00:17:44]:
This is a do not say type of thing. Just showing up and being there. Basketball games, those are the more regular big moments. And then the other ones are like putting her to bed, getting her up in the morning, taking her to school. I think just like the regularity, the frequency, the explanations when you can’t, showing that you’ve been thinking about them, willingness to listen to them first, I think knowing when I’m going to be there for you, and so on. I think also, like, maybe moments with others where other people are objectifying your kids and you’re like, no, I’m on your side. And it doesn’t mean that. Again, like, I’m like, you need to be respectful of your teachers, for example.

Adam Angel [00:18:19]:
But if the teacher is acting out on your kid in the sense that they’re not seeing them as a whole person and they’re just kind of treating them, again, like just whoever there will step in and have a conversation with them. But again, I’m also talking like a student conversation today. She may struggle with a particular class. And I ask her, like, is this. Is there anything in this that you could do for yourself to improve the situation? Because, like, it seems like maybe you could have done something here, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not wrong if you’re in your protest. And I got you, I’m on your side here, but, like, look at your side a little bit too. So I’m holding both lenses and. But I think she knows that I’m coming from a place ultimately that I have her back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]:
And what’s the tradition or routine that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Adam Angel [00:19:07]:
There was a period of time that was quite hard when she was younger, where it was she. She went to a different school first. And I like, my funny story was that she’s like, went to a school and then she went into like, the public school. And it was really. She really struggled with it. And I said, I told her, like, if you want to go somewhere else, she said, what she said is, they don’t know how to teach. She’s like five telling me this, like, six weeks into her school. I’m like, oh, my God, this is crazy.

Adam Angel [00:19:39]:
So then I’m like, but I think there’s. What she’s saying was, I don’t want to sit and do worksheets. That’s what she’s saying. I don’t blame her. So Anyway, we ended up trying a different school. But I told her, if you really want to do that, you have to go and do these like tours and stuff. And she did it. So we ended up going somewhere else.

Adam Angel [00:19:55]:
But during that period of time, you know, at the other school, I started this tradition. I took off work on a particular day early. And so when I picked her up on Mondays, we would go just one on one and pick a place and have a smoothie or something. And then we don’t do that every week now like we did, but we do do something else now. For example, right now we’re Wednesdays, we go to Jiu Jitsu. Right? That’s what we’re going to do now. But before was did a practice a day that we did practice basketball one on one. And I do that with my son too.

Adam Angel [00:20:24]:
Like just making that one on one time. And like, this is just for you, me and you connect. But especially when you realize it’s like a season for challenge. Like, more like this month has been really struggling. The intervention is almost always best. Intervention is one on one time and making sure they know that you’re putting them first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:40]:
So I mentioned the fact that you have a site called Dads with Wisdom. And one of the things that I wanted to kind of first start with is that not everybody knows what that is. They may never have heard of it. So bring me back to the beginning and talk to me about the inception of Dads with Wisdom and why did you decide that you needed something like Dads with Wisdom and that other dads needed something like Dads with Wisdom?

Adam Angel [00:21:07]:
Yeah. So my son was born 10 days after Covid. We went home. The doctor said nobody can come and visit for like 60 days. We happen to live near our family on both sides. We were like, why did we do this? Now it’s like, this sucks. So we’re just all alone and just really struggling. I was in the nonprofit world before I went to private practice.

Adam Angel [00:21:25]:
And that was a lot to. And it was there I kind of like decided that just like I’m gonna go and go leave my job and took some time to do it. But then I had more time with my son and that process. I was thinking, oh man, this has got to be a really hard time for fathers. And what came next is I reached out to a few people in my area, Washington, D.C. area, just like practitioners that are also private practice. Like anyone running a group for dads. And nobody was.

Adam Angel [00:21:51]:
There was one person who was a woman who’s who ran at one time and, and I had a nice conversation with her about how she did that. Then I put out emails around it and I got like a ton of responses, but all of them from women, mostly practitioners and many wives asking for this to work. And I was like, okay, I’m not messaging this well or to the right audiences. So I spent some time, created this website and I got in touch with a local called the Breastfeeding center of Greater Washington. And it’s basically like they do classes for mostly moms and couples, but nothing for dads. And so I, you know, we had a good conversation about it. I essentially became like a partner affiliation and we started running them and then it filled up very quickly and I don’t charge that much for these group. And it’s 10 sessions.

Adam Angel [00:22:40]:
I just read all I could read in terms of books and et cetera. And then I just created like this semi structured group where I like, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was like, I think this is like a little bit after this. I was talking to you about this not too much longer after. And what I was doing when I knew enough, what I didn’t know was like, what do men really want? Because I think they were telling me one thing and maybe they wanted something slightly different. But I was like, maybe more emphasizing the topics and such and like kind of like the educational sort of aspect. And then I, I think what really they wanted was a space to discuss this stuff. And it was good to have those topics and structure, but also really important to stay attuned to what they really were wanting that day.

Adam Angel [00:23:20]:
And so what I’ve come to do is like those 10 sessions still exist. I still have those about three times a year. So that’s 30 weeks of the year. And these guys are basically getting more space before at the beginning and the end of these sessions to kind of just say what’s going on for them, but also getting some topic based discussion and also like if they want resources, different topics of new parenthood. These are all for fathers that are first time fathers and new kids. And maybe we meet one time in person now as well. The rest are virtual because I have guys coming from Baltimore all the way to like Virginia Beach. So those are the three areas of my licensing.

Adam Angel [00:23:58]:
But you know, I even have guys sometimes come from outside of the area because this is not really therapy. This is not therapy. It’s like peer based support. So that’s what propelled me to do it and how it started. And now it’s like what surprised me with all These groups that are now actually what would be called psychotherapy groups. And I have multiple of these running and there’s six or so guys in each one and they love it. And I’m better at it than I was five years by a lot. I think a lot of it is my own internal growth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]:
And then sometimes there’s a stigma to being in a group of individuals talking about things that make you vulnerable in that way. So for a dad who’s hesitant to join something that’s like this, what would you say to help him take that first step?

Adam Angel [00:24:41]:
Well, first of all, I usually send them a podcast. Sometimes it’s the best way to get and just to receive it as opposed to having to read. I think normalization obviously is the biggest one. Right. It’s like we all go through this. It’s. And I think when having somebody else that’s going through the exact same thing or very similar at the exact same time is just worth so much. And that’s even before I add anything.

Adam Angel [00:25:04]:
Right. It’s just that. And so just I always tell people like, hey, the kind of person that would be in this group is someone like you, who also is thinking, I don’t know if this works out for me. But I think this person’s committed to being a better father and a better partner maybe and a better. And so on. So that’s who’s going to be there. And when you go there, it’s got its own process. So you don’t have to jump right in.

Adam Angel [00:25:25]:
You may. And many times these people do. And so it really depends on the kind of group. But I think that’s why I like talk to people for like 15 minutes before trying to maybe longer, 20 minutes, 30 minutes just to see like, what do you really want here? And people have come and gone in the groups and actually gone to different groups. So like I do like an hour for right before birth for free for people if they want to just like think about how they’re feeling and like prepare for what will happen at the birth and then like the first days of postpartum experience. So like that’s like a free hour. Then people then tend to sign up for the 10 week new dads and then many times a little later, these, they’re men that just like, hey, I just want a more depth oriented conversation with other guys. And that’s the sort of dads 2.0 groups that we’re doing.

Adam Angel [00:26:07]:
I’ve been creating some other groups as well, dads that have lost in like, you know, early infancy or in late pregnancy. I have group for them and also for them if they’re parenting after that loss and like, you know, so they can have a space for being which, which has its own unique thing things to it. So I would say to them like, they’re like you. And there’s, there’s this huge value in having that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
There truly is value in that. And I think it is important to be able to put yourself out there and be able to. And I’ve said this before, to be vulnerable not only with other men, but with your kids in many different ways. I guess as you look at the groups that you’ve created, the ability for people to come together, what’s one story, and I’m not asking you to break confidentiality, that really captures the impact that you’ve seen for dads that have taken part in these groups.

Adam Angel [00:26:58]:
This happened yesterday, I’m not kidding in this sweet group. This like conversation was just very. This is a dad’s 2.0 group and the dad was talking about one dad was basically struggling as newer to the group. I am not the preferred parent. It’s really hard for me. I’m not sure, you know, sort of essentially the level of I’m not at the level of connection I would like with my kids. And other guys were like, first of all, this is a normal pattern that goes up and down. Sometimes times you preferred, sometimes you’re not.

Adam Angel [00:27:25]:
And this guy basically said like. I don’t think he was trying to speak about his, the impact, but I think it was obvious to me. He was like, basically in the last six months that he’s been in the group for about a year and some. And he said I’m the preferred person parent. And I used to get, you know, essentially like overwhelmed and dealing with my kids. And I would essentially, I don’t know his reactions to that, but ultimately now they come to me. They’re all over me all the time. And that’s hard, but it’s a lot better, it’s a lot different than it was where they didn’t know that I was kind of like that connection and depth of relationship just wasn’t where it is now.

Adam Angel [00:28:02]:
So that’s one that just came to me off the top of my head. But I was just like, just appreciating how much he cares, how much he’s worked to be that for his kids. And that took a lot of reflection and self determination.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]:
So one of the other things that comes to mind when I was thinking about this was when we’re talking about Vulnerability and men being willing to connect with other men. Why do you think it’s so hard for men to build authentic community and, and how does that impact their parenting or their ability to be the father that they want to be.

Adam Angel [00:28:39]:
Yeah, actually that. To bring this up when in previous answer. So I appreciate you asking it because I think that’s also how I sometimes. So the group I said like, I mean, people tell me and you can tell me if it’s true. For years I’ll say to someone that they have close friends, but they still don’t have these kind of conversations they need to have where they can actually say what they’re really feeling around life, parenting and their experience as a husband after kids and so on and so forth. And usually the guys will not be like, yeah, I have close friends, or I don’t really have this kind of relationship with friends, but I still can’t have this conversation. And the guys will say like, especially when they’re leaving. And like, I have them like, kind of like just people like say really kind things to them as if someone’s leading a group or something and the dad’s 2.0.

Adam Angel [00:29:20]:
And they’ll say something like that, like, like this has been a different place where I can actually say like, hey, you know, today I didn’t feel like wanting to be a parent. I just, I was mad about being a dad and I didn’t like it. I don’t want to be like. And that’s a really hard thing to say. If I say that somewhere else, someone’s going to judge me. And all the other guys in the group, like, not usually we know what you’re talking about. Because they also know that they’re committed. Just because they’re having a protest has nothing to do with their love.

Adam Angel [00:29:42]:
Those two are not incongruent. And so just naming the frustration and difficulty has nothing to do with the level of care and knowing that the people around you are not going to judge you and know that that is what vulnerability is. I had this wonderful quote from my. One of my mentors in my training institute that I do on a regular basis. And he says there’s a difference between transparency and vulnerability, but only you will know it because it’s an internal experience. I can be transparent with you, Chris, and I can also, I can tell you about my life, but if I don’t feel the vulnerability, then it’s not vulnerable. And usually the vulnerability requires a little bit of worry that this could be harmful to me if you use this against. And that Fear that around that is like, that’s actually.

Adam Angel [00:30:29]:
Well, we of course can explore it. But the bottom line is that’s a risk and you’re taking it. And you’re taking it. Your willingness to take it is its own bond between the guys. And everyone knows it when you’re doing it. You know it first and they know it usually second. And so that’s been something that I’ve actually said as a part of our conversations and times with the guys. And there’s a good response to that.

Adam Angel [00:30:51]:
And they’re able to engage in another level of vulnerability. So I don’t know if I answered all the question if it was like why it’s hard. I think is like. I think the answer is that it’s scary and that we’ve been hurt in a lot of ways to taught not to do that. That’s the real world. Like. And you shouldn’t be vulnerable to every single person because it can be. There are people that have unfortunately not the best intentions but.

Adam Angel [00:31:12]:
But there are plenty that you can. And you can navigate that by just by figuring it out as you go through the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]:
When I think some of that goes back to trauma in regards to what individuals have experienced in their own life. And there’s many men that have generational trauma or patterns that they experienced growing up. And I’m sure you’ve seen that in groups in different ways. How would you say that dads can begin to break those cycles for themselves?

Adam Angel [00:31:40]:
Yeah, I mean this is my work. So like when I’m not doing groups, I’m doing individual therapy. And my focus of training has been in complex trauma. And what that really means essentially is we adjust ourselves as all people do. And even when we’re wonderful dads that we are, Chris, our kids, we’re not going to be perfect for them and therefore they will have to adjust. And there’s. It just is part of life. And that adjustment means that we’re going to create strategies to protect ourselves.

Adam Angel [00:32:03]:
And we had to do that as kids. And so when I work with people individually and in the group, we notice what they’re really wanting for themselves, which is this intention that we’re going to state together. So for example, I would like to have greater self confidence or some state or experience in myself or maybe I want to have more capacity to be vulnerable. But that is where we’re coming from, from the adult side of what we want. Now when we are engaged in relationships, it’s very easy to fall into the strategies that worked for us at one point. Or at least attempted to work for us as a young person in a life where we don’t have any agency as a child, you don’t. Ultimately you’re worried about your, the people that care for you, caregivers and the culture around you. And it has rules.

Adam Angel [00:32:47]:
And you realize those rules. You’re very quick to learn that as a kid until you keep yourself safe through this process. And those strategies, they need to be confronted and addressed. And the way that you do that is by sitting with someone else who cares and has, can support you. And when you do that, working out, for example, in therapy, you get something where you can notice with the person, deepen into the emotions of what has happened, but more importantly, what’s coming up for you now and how you might be allowing in these same things. And I see that allowing with a lot of compassion doesn’t mean we’re intentionally doing it, but allowing in old strategies which are determining things in your life you no longer want. And when you can be that with that, with that, in this kind of process, we can interrupt generational, cultural, all the things trauma that you’ve been through. And again, I’m using that word lightly because I know sometimes people talk about trauma, but it’s, it’s just your experiences or you were limited to what you could do and be and who you could be.

Adam Angel [00:33:47]:
And we’re trying to just say if you want to be something else, you can, but you gotta address it and be with it. And you have to do it with someone who also has this and other people and in the group, other people that are committed to doing the same. So that that’s where the growth can happen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]:
Now if people want to find out more about dads with wisdom, where should they go?

Adam Angel [00:34:05]:
Yeah, so website is dadswithwisdom.com and that’s where the groups are mostly. And if there’s anyone who’s experienced loss in parenting, you know, early life, you know, early pregnancy or late pregnancy loss, I do those groups too. But I keep that off the website and go to Adamodulotherapy.com for. That’s for the individual work and also therapy group. Because I just, it can be really intense for someone who’s lost to see those pictures of babies that are sort of on the Dads of Wisdom website. I also am doing a retreat in the fall. It’s the first time I’ve ever done that. And this is sort of listening.

Adam Angel [00:34:38]:
I went to a men’s retreat myself, was profound and very thoughtful, pushed me further. And so I was like you know, I could do this. So I’m going to be doing something in the Shenandoah area and it’s going to be exciting. So that’s also happening now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:52]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? I don’t know. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Adam Angel [00:35:04]:
Maybe an easy one. Loving, caring, Something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:07]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Adam Angel [00:35:11]:
I’m not sure if it’s the best, but it’s true. This too shall pass. It’ll change again. It’s okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:17]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Adam Angel [00:35:20]:
Sometimes it’s just sitting and having a nice snack at this, like, particular place that we like, have like good little drinks and we just kind of like look out the window. We have a good conversation. So I think that’s one of the big ones. I think I mentioned other, other ones earlier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Adam Angel [00:35:38]:
You’re enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:39]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Adam Angel [00:35:42]:
I want to be silly with it and say I’m enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Adam Angel [00:35:54]:
I think what we’re talking about here is obviously don’t give up stuff. You’re going to be okay. All these things that we’re just mentioning. But you need, you need. If you want to be a rock, you need a mountain, you need and to sit on. And I think that’s. That’s the men that can support you. And so you doing it alone is.

Adam Angel [00:36:10]:
It’s the start to do not really possible in the same way or it’s going to be really detrimental to do it. So you need to be the person that you want to be, the dad that you want to be. You need other men to support you. You’ll get where you want to be that way much easier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:24]:
Well, Adam, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today for the work that you’re doing with dads with wisdom and for sharing the journey that you’ve been on with your daughter up till now. It’s still keep going to keep going, and you’re going to keep learning and it’s going to be an amazing journey along the way. But I truly want to say thank you for being here and I wish you all the best.

Adam Angel [00:36:44]:
Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged, engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:37:17]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Building Lasting Bonds: Practical Tips for Dads Raising Confident Daughters

May 4, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad seeking to build a deeper relationship with your daughter and empower her to grow into a confident, independent woman, the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast is the resource you’ve been looking for. In the latest episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rob Donovan, a devoted father of two, to explore the ups and downs of modern fatherhood, sharing both practical tips and heartfelt stories that will resonate with any parent.

From the start, Dr. Christopher Lewis sets the tone: fatherhood isn’t about perfection—it’s about presence. This central message weaves through the episode as Rob Donovan recounts his own parenting journey, including the surprises he encountered as his daughters’ personalities took shape. He shares how one daughter, contrary to his expectations, turned out to be more artistically inclined, while the other took after him in her love of sports. Rob Donovan emphasizes the significance of meeting each child where they are—celebrating their uniqueness and supporting their preferred interests, whether that means roller hockey in the driveway or karaoke in the living room.

A recurring theme in the conversation is the importance of letting children develop their independence, even as we instinctively want to protect them. Rob Donovan candidly discusses the balancing act of giving his daughters space to solve their own problems—from playground squabbles to learning how to handle disappointment and frustration—while always remaining a supportive presence in their lives.

The episode also dives into how dads can intentionally foster strong bonds during challenging moments. Rob Donovan opens up about overcoming his own discomfort around childhood injuries, a legacy of his military experiences, and learning to comfort his daughters with patience and understanding. He shares the family routines that keep them connected, like special breakfast traditions and shared musical moments, underscoring that it’s often the simplest rituals that leave the deepest impact.

One of the most inspiring messages from the episode comes when Rob Donovan advises fellow dads to “just go for it” and always get involved—no matter how different your children’s passions may be from your own. As he says, “Dive right in… you never know, you might enjoy it with them.”

The “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast reminds us that fatherhood is a journey of growth—for both father and child. Each episode offers encouragement, wisdom, and a sense of camaraderie for dads everywhere. Listen in, get inspired, and start building the lasting connections that shape your daughter’s future—and your own.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:05]:
Every one of us is on a different journey as we are working to be able to be the fathers that we want to be, but also to make those meaningful connections with our daughters as they are getting older. And that’s why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to have the opportunity to introduce you to new dads that you might. That you’ve never met before, that. That are going through this process themselves. Maybe they’re succeeding, maybe they’re failing. Maybe they’re somewhere in between. No matter where they are and where you are, you showing up gives you the opportunity to learn, to grow, and to be able to continue to build those tools for your own toolbox that’ll help you to be the best dad that you want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]:
So today, I am really excited we have another great guest on the show. Rob Donovan is with us. And Rob’s a father of two daughters, and they are age 5 and 4. I remember those days. It was a while back, but I do remember those days, and it was a fun time. And I am really excited to have him here today and for him to tell some of his story with you. Rob, thanks so much for joining us today.

Rob Donovan [00:02:17]:
Great to be here, Dr. Lewis.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:18]:
Well, it’s my pleasure having you here today. And I guess, first and foremost, one of the things that I love being able to start with and talk about is each one of us are going through this journey as we’re working to be that dad that we want to be. And part of that is to create those meaningful moments, moments that each of us wants to have with our daughters. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with each of your daughters and what made each of them so special.

Rob Donovan [00:02:44]:
I’m gonna have to say since they’re 5 and 4, their identities now are starting to come to fruition. I thought at first my firstborn daughter was gonna be all sports. She’s more arts, she’s more music and film. My second born is all sports. So it kind of flip flopped on that end. But what I love is that I can connect with them on two different levels. So obviously for my second born daughter, she loves to go outside. Roller hockey, soccer, anything outside, biking.

Rob Donovan [00:03:07]:
And then my firstborn, you know, we love to listen to music. Obviously the kids show hunt tricks is a big one for her. And then going to movies, she loves movies. So I believe we just saw the new Mario movie and we’re gonna go back again probably next week. So she just love recreate movie scenes and sometimes I’m the bad guy, sometimes I’m the animal. I don’t know. But it’s fun to create those moments with my daughters on a separate level. Sometimes they play with each other, but I can obviously tell now that they’re kind of going off in their own separate ways a little bit here.

Rob Donovan [00:03:34]:
And it’s fun to connect on each level of them on those.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:36]:
Now what the things I didn’t mention was that you also work with the hockey team at the University of Michigan Flint. And so sports is really important to you. So with your youngest having that connection and having that interest in sports, I’m sure that there’s sometimes an ability to be able to make that connection and be able to understand her a little bit more because of that. So talk to me about that connection to sports with your youngest daughter. What have you done to hone that and what have you done to work to hone your other abilities with your oldest daughter who has other interests than your own?

Rob Donovan [00:04:15]:
So I think for my youngest daughter starting out is that she became a lot like me. More than I could have ever imagined. It’s kind of like staring in the mirror. And now I know what my parents kind of saw when I was a kid. She’s very competitive. We bond over the fact that I obviously love Michigan, I love hockey, I love all sports. But I think whenever she sees the, the block em or anything, she yells go blue. She loves watching hockey, especially Michigan hockey.

Rob Donovan [00:04:34]:
And I think this year the football will be fun for her because I think she’s gonna understand that a little bit more. But she kind of laug on anything. I kind of do So I mean, if I’m out playing hockey by myself rollerblading, she wants to do that. I think at this point right now we’re just kind of working on it’s okay to have fun, it’s okay just to shoot. And if you miss the net or if you do something, it’s not the end of the world. She’s very competitive, so if she doesn’t hit the net on a soccer goal or hockey goal, she gets a little upset. So we’re kind of going through the motions of it’s okay just to play and have fun. For my firstborn daughter, she does like to jump in a few times with the athletics, but she goes off on her own quests after a while and that’s totally fine.

Rob Donovan [00:05:09]:
I kind of noticed that. And I’ll give Tilly. Tilly’s my second born and Tegan is my firstborn. And I will give Tegan, you know, the same amount of just kind of play time. So after I’m done playing hockey and kind of getting Tilly on a roll, I’ll go over to Teegan and we’ll kind of have our little side quests. Whether we’re playing Mario or some other make believe movie with sticks or going on an adventure with her outside is pretty much what she likes to do. So I just kind of got to switch switches there and kind of go from a coach to almost like a drama teacher in a way. So it’s kind of fun.

Rob Donovan [00:05:38]:
I never had that as a kid as being so playful. Like my firstborn, my parents were very athletic mindset and so it’s kind of fun going back and having that experience with my firstborn.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]:
Now. Earlier you talked about the fact that your daughters are starting to show some of that independence and wanting that independence for themselves. And part of the role of a father is to find that balance. Some of that balance comes down to how we guide our daughters while still giving them the independence that they need to grow into their own person. Talk to me about, how are you doing that?

Rob Donovan [00:06:11]:
For me, it’s just going to be kind of just releasing the grip a bit, lessening, lessening the rope on them. I’m very protective as a father, so if we’re biking, I like to keep them close even though our neighborhood’s really safe. So I kind of now I’m kind of, you know, watching them from a distance and they know better with cars and such like that. Kind of letting them figure out when they have arguments instead of stepping in right away and like putting the kibosh on it. As soon as they start arguing now, I kind of let them try to figure it out a bit. Normally they do, but sometimes, you know, I still got to step in and referee a bit. But yeah, it’s just kind of stepping back a bit and kind of letting them learn how to live a bit. And it’s.

Rob Donovan [00:06:43]:
It’s definitely a little bit difficult for me just because I’m so protective of them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:46]:
And, you know, it’s not always easy to be able to find ways to be able to work on those bonds, especially when times are challenging, because being a father is not always roses. There’s going to be challenging times, and you have to figure out where you stand as a parent, as a father in those times. What would you say are some intentional ways that you’ve worked to strengthen your bonds with your daughters, especially during those challenging times?

Rob Donovan [00:07:12]:
For me, one of my biggest difficulties as a dad is going to have to be maybe injuries. And that just goes back to. For me, my, my girls, they play extremely hard, and so there’s going to be injuries. I mean, they’re filled with bruises and cuts and stuff like that. But, you know, big injuries. Such as, like, I know one time one of them went over the handlebars. Handlebars once scraped up her face, things like that. And kind of takes me back is I was in the military about eight years ago.

Rob Donovan [00:07:35]:
I came across during my time of service, some things with kids that made difficult. I always thought when having children, when they get to that age, around five to eight, I was going to have a little difficulties because I had past experiences with kids that are being injured. So for me, I know as they were growing up, whenever they got hurt or fell or anything like that, or started crying really hard, for me it was very difficult. It was very, I’d say in the new words, triggering, I guess, where I’d kind of a normal dad kneel down, you know, kiss the boo boo, and you know, stuff like that. For me, it was very difficult. It was almost like I had to step away. But now I’ve learned in the past few years, I’ve learned to slow things down and explain to them, okay, it’s just a little cut or just a little bruise. We can get up things like that.

Rob Donovan [00:08:10]:
And I think if I would have said that three years ago, for me, that would have been very difficult. So we’re both growing together, my daughters and I, so I know there’s more bumps and bruises to go on as they grow up, especially in sports. So I think for me, it’s just going to be something I’m going to continue to grow and continue to get better at.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]:
And as you said, we’re not perfect individuals. There are mistakes that we make, flaws that we have. What would you say is a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering more positive communications with your daughters?

Rob Donovan [00:08:40]:
I think my biggest mistake is going to have to be I’m just a very competitive, aggressive kind of person. Just comes with. I played hockey my whole life. I did the military. I’m. I’m a deputy now, sheriff deputy. And so I kind of live a life where I’m very go getter is I’m very aggressive in life. And so when the girls play and stuff, I.

Rob Donovan [00:08:57]:
I kind of let it go like I said. But then on the flip side, I got to teach them, you know, to be kind, courteous, nice with strangers and other kids when they play. They can’t be as rough as they are with their sisters. So I think that’s just one thing I kind of needed to tone down start, which I didn’t do. And now I’m kind of backtracking a bit, trying to teach them, you know, how to play a little nicer and how to include everybody and not immediately when you get mad at someone, you’re not gonna, you know, just throw them down on the ground, something like that. So something I’m backtracking now on being a little nicer. I just being an older person, an adult, you’ve kind of already grown up not knowing that’s, you know, not, not the right thing to do. But when you’re a child, you can need your parents to kind of help you along those ropes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:33]:
And I can tell that you are in there, you’re engaged. And for all of us that are engaged dads, there are things that we have to do to be validate our kids. So I guess what do you do to intentionally allow for your daughters to feel both valued and heard?

Rob Donovan [00:09:51]:
For me, I just give them the time. I know I work overnight, so I work from 7pm to 7am so I could easily go to bed and wake up at 4 and go right to work, pretty much get have a meal and go to work. But I come home every day and I feed my dogs first of all because they’re the first ones up and whining. I have two little mini dachshunds, so little wiener dogs so they need to go out and get fed. But as soon as I do that, the girls come running downstairs because they Know that as soon as I get home, I make a gourmet kind of, you know, breakfast for them. They have eggs, Belgian waffles, sausage, orange juice right before school. So it’s kind of like a little system we have where almost now, if I don’t come home, if I get delayed by something that morning, I feel bad because I know that that’s something they look forward to, is me coming home and making them nice meals. And then on the flip side, I try to go to bed as soon as they go to school, I go to bed right away.

Rob Donovan [00:10:37]:
And then I get up around, you know, 1:32. So now I have the whole back end of the afternoon when they get back from school and they have lunch, Dad’s waking up and now they know dad’s going to come out and play with, be involved. And so I may be tired, I may be 3 day work week of 12 hour shifts or something like that. But I always try to make time for them and try to, you know, play with them and give them a good meal. And I think they really appreciate that. It’s kind of something they look forward to every week now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
And you talked about some of the interests that your daughters have, and I don’t know if you, if you have an answer for this or not, but as your daughters have been getting older and starting to show you more of their, their passions, their dreams, their things, the things that they are most interested in and most wanting to do. How do you support your daughters in pursuing those passions and dreams?

Rob Donovan [00:11:23]:
I believe that when you’re young, you’re figuring out what you like. A lot of times that’s like, if you talk to people, you know, in their older years, they grow up, be like, oh, I used to love playing saxophone as a kid, or I used to, you know, I love singing as a child, but I kind of lost doing that because I had other things or other things are more important or, you know, I got older and I realized it was never going to happen, things like that. But like I said, my first daughter loves music. She loves singing, she loves anything to do with music, film, things like that. And so I encourage you. I got her a little, little microphone to sing into and a little karaoke set on. Play her favorite songs and just kind of encourage her. No matter, you know, no matter what she likes, sports, music, dance, anything.

Rob Donovan [00:12:00]:
I’m going to be there supporting her all the way because I know that’s going to be a passion of hers. I can just tell in their eyes that she loves it on the Flip side of my youngest daughter, I mean, she’s just like me and she looks just like me. So sports, she gravitated right towards sports. I mean, I have a little knee hockey set I’ve had since sixth grade or so like for 30 years. And I brought it out and she, she loved it immediately. She loves kicking the soccer ball. Any do with movement. And for her, I always told my wife I had a son it’d be a little more difficult because like I said before, I, I push really hard.

Rob Donovan [00:12:27]:
So having a daughter was kind of a godsend for me because it allows me to step back and kind of be a little softer as a parent, I believe. So with her being sports wise, I can work on, you know, being more passionate instead of, you know, let’s get out there and run drills. When they get it like 6 or when I get 8 years old to like 15, I’m gonna say, hey, let’s go play out in the field together. Instead of, let’s hit the, let’s hit the sprints and stuff like that. If I had a boy. So I think just being with both of them and being, and what they like to do and having as their dad and a friend enjoying what they do, instead of just saying, hey, go out and do this and I’m going to sit back and watch or I’m going to go inside and do my own thing. I’m going to actively, as I get older, I’m going to still be along as long as they let me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:06]:
And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Rob Donovan [00:13:10]:
That’s going to be through honestly just being active in what they’re doing. So I said the music wise, you just got to be there for them. You got to be right next to them, you got to be engaged with them. And so if they have any questions or they want you to be along, sing along with them or show them the ropes. They’re not gonna be afraid to ask you because you’re always there helping out for their age. If they get frustrated, I know about a year ago, if I said this a year ago, they’d sit there and cry, maybe they’d get frustrated, they throw down their toy, they throw down whatever they’re doing and kind of run into the house. But now there’s like, dad, can you help me? Dad, can you come play with me? Dad this and dad that. And I love that.

Rob Donovan [00:13:43]:
I love being included with it. And now I feel like they trust me enough to, if they need help, they can just Ask instead of just running away.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:49]:
It’s so important to be able to stay open, allowing for our daughters to really dictate where the conversation’s going. And that’s not always something that is at the forefront of our brain in the sense of what we would do right away. So I appreciate that you shared that. Now all of us have those routines, and you talked about the breakfast routine and traditions that are meaningful to our families. You mentioned the breakfast one, but I’m going to ask and see if there’s any other ones. What’s another tradition or routine that you’ve created together with your daughters that really strengthens your bonds?

Rob Donovan [00:14:24]:
I think one of them would be obviously the breakfast one. But for me, I love. For my second daughter and sometimes my first, I love watching anything Michigan so that they. Hockey, football, anything like that. As soon as I turn it on the past two years, they know. So they. They hear the fight song, Hail to the Victors and stuff, and they go. They come in, they yell, go blue.

Rob Donovan [00:14:41]:
And they sit down for a bit. At least my second daughter still sit for almost the whole game and watch and they cheer whenever anyone scores a touchdown. For my firstborn daughter, I used to play guitar. So when she gets feels a little artsy or she wants her favorite song, she’ll come up to me and she’ll ask me, can you play this or can you? I’ve done it a couple times with Moana and stuff like that, where I found out the chords and I’d play. But now it’s like whenever she finds a new song, she’s like, dad, can you play this? Can you figure out how to play this? So it’s kind of a tradition with her now is now that whenever she finds a new song or something, we go try to play it. And we have a drum set too, so she loves playing that. It’s like one of those electric ones. So we’ll put a return on her favorite song and she’ll so drum to it, in a way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:15]:
Is your backup singer. She can become your backup singer and backup drummer.

Rob Donovan [00:15:19]:
Exactly. Like I said, I go from coach to music teacher each day. Flip flop.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:23]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection 6, which asks you six more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Rob Donovan [00:15:30]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:30]:
Go for it. What’s one word that describes the relationship that you have with your daughters?

Rob Donovan [00:15:37]:
I’d say devoted.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Rob Donovan [00:15:43]:
Be goofy. As much for my dad, always make your kids laugh. You have to be tough with them. But at the same time, you know, they’re. They’re looking for. They’re looking for a laugh, they’re looking for a good time. They’re. Kids can’t always just be so strict.

Rob Donovan [00:15:52]:
Even though you want them to listen to you got to spend the time to make them laugh. So got to be goofy. But you gotta teach them to laugh at yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:59]:
Now, you’ve already answered this question in a few different ways, but if there’s a different one, you can, you can answer this. What’s one activity that you and. And each of your daughters love doing together?

Rob Donovan [00:16:10]:
My second daughter loves to eat. So I cook a ton of things. I like to cook and she eats anything. And it’s amazing. Like, I would never have eaten that as a kid. And she just, she just pounds it down like it just extravagant food. So she has, she’s not picky. And so whenever I’m cooking food or whatever, she always wants to try a bite.

Rob Donovan [00:16:27]:
So that’s awesome. With her firstborn daughter, yes, I’ve already tapped on the artsy part and stuff like that, but trying to think of one other thing that she. The music, art, stuff like that. Drawing. I’d say she loves to draw, so I’ll join her in drawing. And I’m not the greatest artist, so she laughs at if I draw. Tell them to draw the dogs or something. She wants me to draw the dog as well.

Rob Donovan [00:16:47]:
Or chalk outside and I’ll make a picture and she’ll be laughing. That’s not a dog or something like that. So I think that’s two things that we’d like to do together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:54]:
If you can give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Rob Donovan [00:16:59]:
For me, I would say just go for it. Honestly, just that. Just go for it. Just because you never know. You never know what’s going to happen. If you have a passion and you truly believe it, just go for it. For me, I’ve done a lot in my life, a million different careers, and so I think I set a good example for my daughters, especially when they get older and they ask, well, what have you done in your life? I can say, you know, I just went for it. And I hope you do too, because there’s so many experiences you can go on with your life.

Rob Donovan [00:17:23]:
After high school, I played junior hockey, pro hockey in Canada for a while. I played college hockey and then took a break from hockey. Actually, where I got music from is my wife now was my girlfriend in College, and we went to Nashville and we did music for two years out there. And once I was done with that, and I was good with that, I went to the military. Once I was on the military, I did police work. And now I’m on to hockey again. I’m onto my passion again. So just a million different avenues.

Rob Donovan [00:17:46]:
And I hope they find excitement in life like I did and they don’t get stuck on one thing and have to feel like they only have one thing in life that they could do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:54]:
And what’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Rob Donovan [00:17:59]:
For me, especially with two girls, I’ve learned a lot. Like I said before, I was really nervous being a dad just because I felt like. Like if I had boys or I didn’t even know if I had girls, if I had girls, I’d be expecting too much. You always come into being a dad, think, or at least for me, I can’t wait to see what they’re gonna do. I can’t wait to see what their passions are. And, you know, I’m gonna push them to be good at something. You kind of want to, like, not live your life through them, but at least try to give them as much passion, as much as much direction as you possibly can. But I’ve learned now that you just kind of gotta let them go and have fun for right now, and all the chips will fall where they may.

Rob Donovan [00:18:33]:
This is time where you just enjoy your life, enjoy the times that you have with your daughters and your. And things will fall where they are. They always do. Just be there to support them and be a good, devoted father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:43]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Rob Donovan [00:18:50]:
I would say no matter what their passion is to try to get involved, you don’t have to extremely love what they’re doing. Just get involved. And you never know, you might enjoy it as well. They’re looking for someone to enjoy their passion with. And being a dad and being there with them, being supportive. That’s all my girls ever ask for, is just me being around and being present. So I think just dive right in. No matter what it is, you never know, you might enjoy it with them.

Rob Donovan [00:19:14]:
Might be a lasting hobby for you guys. So to try it out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:17]:
Great advice, and I really appreciate you sharing that and sharing the journey that you’ve been on with your own daughters. And it’s still a journey. You’re going to continue to go through many of the different phases of life. As they continue to get older. But I want to say thank you. Thank you for your time, and I truly wish you all the best.

Rob Donovan [00:19:34]:
Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:20:06]:
We’re all in the same boat

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]:
and

Musical Performer [00:20:13]:
it’s full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them? Be the best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can be.

Lead with Love: How Dads Shape Strong, Compassionate Young Women

February 2, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad hoping to build a closer, more meaningful relationship with your daughter, you won’t want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis invites educator, coach, mentor, and author Chad Mitchell to share stories and insights from his life as a father of two daughters (and six children total), as well as lessons from his new book, “Change Your Game.”

The Power of the Everyday Moment

One of the central themes Chad Mitchell brings to the conversation is the importance of the “little things.” As a father and now a grandfather, he reflects that the most meaningful moments with his daughters weren’t grand gestures or planned events, but simple time spent together—talking, listening, and just being present. It’s a reminder for all dads: you don’t have to be perfect or extraordinary for your daughter. What matters most is showing up authentically, creating spaces for laughter, listening, and sharing life’s ups and downs.

Balancing Guidance and Independence

Chad Mitchell is candid about his own journey learning how to guide his daughters while also giving them the independence to grow. He admits he was stricter with his first daughter, loosening up with experience. His key realization? Letting your children choose their own paths—whether in sports, music, or academics—helps them build confidence and resilience. He encourages dads to support their daughters’ unique interests, learn from mistakes (their own and their kids’), and “choose your battles wisely.”

Raising Leaders, Not Just Followers

A recurring lesson from Chad’s book and the episode is that leadership isn’t defined by age, popularity, or formal titles but by influence, kindness, integrity, and everyday choices. Dads play a unique role in helping daughters see themselves as leaders—right now, not just in the future—by labeling them as such and recognizing the ways they impact those around them.

Connection Through Listening and Vulnerability

Perhaps most powerful is the call for empathetic listening. Chad Mitchell believes that being fully present—with eye contact, without distractions—opens the door to trust and deeper connection. Sharing your own struggles and vulnerabilities, as appropriate, helps daughters realize they’re not alone in facing life’s challenges.

If you want real stories, practical wisdom, and encouragement for your journey as a dad, listen to this episode. You’ll leave inspired to engage more deeply, support your daughter’s dreams, and grow together, one honest conversation at a time.

Tune in and discover how you can truly connect with your daughter today!

If you enjoyed this episode, we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships, those connections that we have with our own daughters, working to help to make them be the strongest that we want them to be, the strongest that they can be. And we do that by learning, by growing, by continuing to look beyond ourselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:
And that’s why every week, I love being able to have you here and being on this journey with me. Today on the dad and Daughter Connection, we’re joined by someone who has dedicated his life to empowering young people to lead, to serve, and to believe that they matter. Chad Mitchell is a educator, a coach, an author, and mentor, and has a new book called Change youe Game. And it in this book, it really reminds us that leadership isn’t about age or status or titles. It’s about influence, kindness, integrity, and the everyday choices that we make. Chad has spent many years helping young people discover their voice and. And their courage. And today we’re going to talk to him about being a dad himself, a father of six, but we’re also going to talk to him about being a father of two daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]:
But we’re going to talk to him about this book, too, and gain a little bit more perspective about his own journey, but also some of the things that he’s learned along the way in working with youth in this way. So really excited to have him here. Chad, thanks so much for being here today.

Chad Mitchell [00:02:21]:
Chris, thanks for having me. I’m super excited. The intro just gives me goosebumps. I’m great. I love. I love this subject matter. I love my daughters. I love young women, and it’s going to be exciting time.

Chad Mitchell [00:02:32]:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here and to chat with you today and having two daughters, I know that your kids range in age from 17 to 35, so every child is a little bit different and your daughters came interspersed between the sons that you have as well. And I guess as you think about your two daughters, what are some of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made them so special?

Chad Mitchell [00:03:01]:
What are the most meaningful moments with my daughters? You know, it’s interesting that I would think they’re not if you. In the moment, they were just little things, Chris. They’re not. I mean, there’s probably a couple things like a daddy daughter dance that I would have taken my girls to when we lived in, in Chicago area, but I think a lot of them are just time together, listening, talking, smiling, and just doing really simple, seemingly mundane things. But as I get older and we have five grandchildren, all of them daughters, and I get to spend time with my daughters, being mothers now, it is the simple things. It’s holding a baby, it’s, you know, going to the store with them. It’s just really just that relationship. And there are so many little things that go into having a good relationship.

Chad Mitchell [00:03:51]:
And I would say just those moments of us together not doing anything fancy or crazy, but just enjoying each other and being each other’s company and sharing hard things, sharing sad things, sharing fun times and sharing silly dad jokes which they grown at still. But that’s all right. That comes with the territory.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:08]:
It does come with the territory. I’m not good at telling dad jokes. And when I say something that I probably didn’t mean to be a dad joke, I do get the groans too. So I completely understand that now. I know both of your daughters are grown and they’re adults, but as you think back to them growing up and you think back to the things that you did to help them become the women that they are today, how did you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into the women that they did become?

Chad Mitchell [00:04:39]:
So I think of Taylor Swift’s recent song Eldest Daughter, and I love the phrase that she talks about. Eldest daughter was the first lamb to the slaughter. And so I will, I’ll be the first to say, Chris, I’m a much better dad today than I was when our first daughter was born. So I don’t know how good a job I did back then, you know, as a first time parent. And you know, you have two daughters and that first one you probably handle differently than you’re handling the second one. And I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but you just learn a lot. And so I think I was much better with Chloe second daughter in terms of not trying to protect her from everything and trying to keep her from dealing with hard things. And so one great way to give them independence and let them create their own path is to try what they want to try.

Chad Mitchell [00:05:26]:
And whether that’s sports, whether that’s acting, whether that’s music, whether that’s cooking. I mean, giving your kids freedom to do and choose how they want to spend some of their time is a huge thing. And I’m a football guy, and so I wanted my kids to try football, except for my daughters. And that’s a whole nother story that Caitlin would love to tell you about how she was the one shot at letting having a football player, and I told her she couldn’t because she was a girl. Forgive me, Caitlin, but, you know, the kids didn’t gravitate to football, and so we needed to let them do lacrosse and let them do soccer and let them do music. And so I think just giving the kids the ability to choose their own way as early as we can in a safe way, is a huge part of helping them be independent and also learn from mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:13]:
Speaking about mistakes, all of us do make mistakes. We’re human. And as our children are born, there is no manual to tell us how to be a dad. And hopefully we’ve had some good role models along the way, but not every father does. So, as you think back to raising your daughters and having them be coming up through their ages into adulthood, what’s a mistake that you know that you did make as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering either a better positive connection or something else?

Chad Mitchell [00:06:45]:
So I will say that my dad was fairly strict. He was in the army as drill sergeant. And so you talk about role models and mentors, and we have those for good and ill. And my dad taught me a lot of great things. But like every parent, right, There are some things that I observed and saw that were not the best thing to do as a parent. And so I think being strict, as I already mentioned, with my eldest daughter and even with with Chloe, our fourth child, I wish I would not have been so strict. And it’s okay to be strict sometimes, but as my wife says, choose your battles wisely. Right? Is it really important to be strict about this thing that doesn’t matter at all? Because that was my experience growing up.

Chad Mitchell [00:07:29]:
Probably not. Do we need to be strict about, hey, you do your homework first, and then you go and play, and that’s the rule. And sure, there’s little exceptions because of unique circumstances, but, you know, the exceptions can’t swallow the rule. So I was too strict with my kids. I got better, and I’m even much better today, but it’s still a challenge, and I wish I wasn’t so strict. And so dad’s out there listening, you know, find those. Find those things that don’t matter as much and let things go. So we’re not constantly harping on or, you know, talking to our kids about little things as opposed to the things that matter most, which is them feeling loved by us and getting a lot of positive feedback from us, as opposed to, hey, did you do this? Why haven’t you done that? You missed this spot on the lawn.

Chad Mitchell [00:08:21]:
I mean, very practical things that some you follow up on, but a lot of them I’ve found out, they’re not important enough to degrade the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:29]:
Every one of us as fathers have to balance that. Like you were talking about the support and the challenge as we are working with our daughters, thinking about how you supported your daughters, how did you support your daughters in pursuing their dreams and their passions that they had for themselves?

Chad Mitchell [00:08:50]:
I would show up. Sometimes it was just a supportive parent in the stands or in the audience. Sometimes it was stepping up to be the coach because they didn’t have a coach. Sometimes it was, you know, taking off work and going to see them do a presentation at school. I think showing up, Kris, is one of the most important things we can do and make sure you show up in the right role that you have. Because when I’m not a coach, I don’t need to show up for my kids at their soccer game and coach them. I’m there to cheer them on. I’m there to be supportive of them and their team.

Chad Mitchell [00:09:23]:
And they have a coach. Let that coach do their job. Chad’s not coaching. Chad doesn’t need to coach. My kid at soccer, I’m there to cheer and support. So I think showing up and showing up in a way that’s going to be supportive and listening and just enjoying the moment and enjoying whatever the result is. If it’s a loss, there’s an opportunity to learn something from that. Right? If it’s a game that doesn’t go well, there’s an opportunity to learn something from that.

Chad Mitchell [00:09:50]:
And if it’s an awesome game and your daughter hustles and maybe doesn’t score a basket but plays super hard, oh, that’s so much to celebrate, right? Just showing up and giving it great effort, man. There’s a lot of success in that little simple recipe right there. So reward that. Be excited about that when that happens, point that out in our daughter’s lives. When we see that that can change maybe a bad or a situation that they’re not excited about, to see the good in it and see the way that they put forth effort which we can all control and turn it into a positive. Everything can be a positive if we look at it from the right perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:28]:
Now I mentioned that you have a new book called Change youe Game and it is a leadership book. It has has a lot of leadership principles within it, but it’s more than just that. It, as I looked through it and, and read through parts of it, it’s a, it’s a guide that really helps young people understand their value, their influence and the power that they have to change the world around them. I love the fact that you use stories and science and use some reflection prompts through with, along with real life examples. And you invited all of us as readers to see that leadership isn’t about age or popularity. It’s about, as I said at the beginning, integrity, kindness, courage, and the choices that we make every day. So as an author myself, I know how much time, passion, effort goes into putting something out into the world. So I guess before we dive too deep into some questions about the book itself, talk to me about the genesis story of why this book, why this topic, and why you wanted to put it out into the world.

Chad Mitchell [00:11:32]:
So why this book? So it was October 17, 2020 that I started writing this book. I went back once I got it published. It’s not available yet. It’ll be available in January. But I went back to say how long have I been working on this? When did I actually start? So I went back and looked at my files and it’s been five years and it was in Covid I was coaching, I coached spring lacrosse in Washington State, boys high school sport. And so that got cut off right before we had a game. I think the Thursday before we had a game on, on our first game of the season on everything got turned topsy turvy and we up here in Washington State, we did not have a season. So there’s a lot of extra time that I had on my hands and a lot of reflection, as I’m sure all of us did or most of us did during the unexpected Covid that shut down many parts of our lives about what matters, what’s important to me.

Chad Mitchell [00:12:24]:
And as I saw young people struggling with the reality of COVID and what it did to daily life. I was just trying to figure out a way that I could help beyond just the kids who I have influence over through church, through our neighborhood, through our community. And I felt like I should start writing this book. And so I started writing it, and it really. I don’t know that, Chris. I don’t know. That’s a book I could have written five years ago. As you said, I’ve been working with you since I was 18.

Chad Mitchell [00:12:53]:
The first time I coached youth sports was when I was still in high school. Someone asked me to help with a soccer team. So I have a lot of the experience, but I think the nuance and the perspective, you know, I’ve gone through some counseling, some therapy, and I just felt like I was finally at a point where I was comfortable enough with myself and really was trying to do it for the right reason, just to help youth and help us as adults figure out a way to tap the potential that our youth have, that the time was right. And so, yeah, a lot of time, a lot of energy. I asked myself, I’d be curious if you did this when you’ve written your books, Chris, is anyone going to read this? Is it going to make a difference? Am I wasting my time? Because so much time and a couple points along the way, I felt like this is worth doing. And lo and behold, here we are five years later, and it’s coming out into the world, which is super exciting. But I really would love to hear the answer to my question from you, Chris. Did you have imposter syndrome and doubts about whether this was the best use of your time as you slog through what a really hard thing to do in writing a book.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:55]:
Imposter syndrome is definitely real, and you will always feel that way. And you’ll have your people that you know will always say something nice. If your parents are still around, they’re going to say nice things. Your family’s going to say nice things. But it comes down to, okay, what are other people saying? People that you don’t know. And you have to always just kind of turn a blind eye to naysayers because you’re. There are always trolls out there, but there are people that will come out of the woodwork, and inevitably you’re going to find that people do really like it and that people will resonate with it. So keep moving forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:29]:
That’s all I can say at this point.

Chad Mitchell [00:14:30]:
Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate the encouragement, and it sounds like we had a very similar experience. But one more question. Doesn’t anyone go through Imposter syndrome before they make it. Because at some point, aren’t we all imposters?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:43]:
Yes, we always are. You always fake it till you make it and you hear that mantra. But it’s very true. And I think a lot of our kids do feel that they have to be perfect, especially kids these days. And that’s a challenge right now. I think as parents, we have to work with our daughters to be able to help them to see that they just need to be who they are, they don’t have to be perfect and that nobody’s expecting them to be perfect in any way.

Chad Mitchell [00:15:10]:
Social media makes that so hard, makes it so hard for our young men and young women to not feel like they have to live up and measure up to the artificiality they see on a constant basis through their phones.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:22]:
Well, and so many filters. And seeing the non reality of what life really looks like when you look at people through the lens of an iPhone and through the filter filters that are provided there, it can make anybody look great and make the reality of a person’s life look very different than what the reality really is now. You know, your book mentions and emphasizes that young people are not too young to lead and that their influence on peers is far greater than adults often realize. How can dads empower their daughters to see themselves as leaders right now, not someday in the future?

Chad Mitchell [00:15:58]:
Yeah, great question. And so one of the things I talk about in the book is labeling a leader, and I’m not sure exactly why, but calling our daughters leaders as opposed to saying they’re leading or they have leadership. But using the noun calling them a leader actually is more effective than labeling it something else. And so one of the things I’ve done with my kids in my learning journey, Chris, is will tell me how you are a leader today at school. And he may, or Chloe or, you know, it doesn’t matter if you’re a son or a daughter. And they may say, you know, Chloe may say, well, I don’t know that I was dad. I said, well, did you have a discussion with any of your friends? Tell me about that. And you ask questions in the appropriate setting.

Chad Mitchell [00:16:44]:
Right. Depending on your age of your daughter, she may not be interested in having that discussion with you. My experience is daughters are more open to having these discussions than a certain age of boys are. But I think you can point out little things to them that they don’t think of as being a leader and label that a leader and talk to them about them being a leader and help them connect that, yes, this Little thing I do, saying hi to my friend in the hallway and asking them what they’re excited about and then actually listening to their answer and remembering their answer. That’s a great leader, right? That’s connection with their peer. That’s helping somebody else feel seen and cared about and respected. And it’s so our kids don’t think about it that way generally. And so our role as dads is point that out to our daughters and help them explore that and see that and how that can have such a positive impact on their peers.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]:
One of the other things that I really liked in the book was throughout the book, you draw a line between integrity and inner peace. When, as you said, our shoes fit our feet, life feels right. How can dads help their daughters choose integrity, especially when fitting in or pleasing others, feels easier?

Chad Mitchell [00:18:00]:
I think the foundation that we need to try and give our daughters, Chris, is what I do in the book is explore principles. Right? If we have a foundation of principles that we try and use to guide our lives, then it’s going to be easier for our kids to understand why it’s important to be consistent with our principles. I mean, what principles are there? On just a random day on social media, there are no principles. Or if there are principles, the overarching principles are throw shade at other people. Look at me, I’m so cool. I have all these material things. And it’s so easy to get caught up in as we talk about in the book. But when we have principles that help govern our lives, such as I care about other people more than I care about material things, as a dad, I tell my daughters I love them and I love them more than anything else in the world.

Chad Mitchell [00:18:53]:
Right? And if they know that love is one of the principles that I care about and I show that to them, guess what they’re going to care about? They’re going to care about love. And that’s going to be an aspect of a principle, that they determine how it fits into their world. And so when we teach them principles about love, doing the right thing, even when it’s hard, being kind to others, being honest with others and yourself, it’s those principles rising to the surface in difficult situations. They’re going to help them make the right choice. And when they don’t make a right choice, we should have taught our daughters about making mistakes is part of the process, Right? Some of the greatest growth I’ve had is mistakes. Do my kids know that? Do my daughters know that? Absolutely. And I think that helps with. That’s got to Be one of the principles is mistakes are a part of life.

Chad Mitchell [00:19:42]:
We’re going to make them. The real question is, what do we do when we make them? It’s not are we going to make them? It’s how do we react when we make a mistake? And so that’s a great question, Kris. I don’t know that I did your question justice with my answer, but that’s what I got right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:55]:
A number of your stories that you share talk about those that are Natural Helpers and Hope Squad, and you talk about that in your book. And it also relates to moments where young people saved lives simply by being trusted peers. What do you believe that dads can do to help their daughters become this type of friend that others feel safe talking to?

Chad Mitchell [00:20:16]:
The most important thing that a dad may be able to instill in his daughter’s, his daughter or daughters, I think is empathetic listening. And I talk about that in the book, Chris. And what I mean by that is whole self listening. You know, if someone is sharing with me a problem, so think about this as having a discussion with your daughter or she trying to have a discussion with you. The, the optimal way to do that is to put your phone away, is to sit and look at the person. It’s to not be distracted by other things. It’s actually not to think about what am I going to say in response to what Caitlin and Chloe are telling me. It’s I need to listen to what Caitlin and Chloe are telling me.

Chad Mitchell [00:20:56]:
I need to give them eye contact. I need to give them positive feedback that yes, I hear you. Keep going, keep telling me more. And it’s through that listening that we’re actually going to figure out things that we won’t know unless we can have that empathetic listening and the discipline to be in the moment, to care more about what that person is saying than what we feel or what we want to do. And that is life changing. And you’re right, Chris, in the story we talk about, you know, Hope Squad, they have had great success in reducing the number of suicides in the schools that they’re at by helping our young people understand how important it is for these trusted peers to listen to their peers and then to be trained so that if someone is showing suicide ideation, they know what to do. And so I think listening and being in the moment and mirroring and practicing that with our daughters. And I don’t mean practicing it in a way that is artificial, but I mean, dads step up, figure out how to do this because Anyone can do it.

Chad Mitchell [00:22:02]:
Step up how to listen effectively to our daughters. And, you know, if you’re doing it already, great, fabulous. If you’re not, watch that relationship improve immensely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:11]:
You have a lot of examples in the book also, such as Malala, Martin Luther King Jr. Huck Finn, people that were struggling or wrestling with courage, convictions, and choosing purpose over fear. How can dads invite their daughters into conversations about purpose, values, and doing the right thing, even when it might be hard?

Chad Mitchell [00:22:35]:
Being a dad is hard. It’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. And so we signed up for hard things when we decided to be a dad. Right, Chris? I think being appropriately vulnerable with our daughters is a good thing. When we struggle with things, I think it’s appropriate and good to share that with our daughters so that they understand that dad is just not this guy who bites down on his mouthpiece, grits his teeth and does things that are hard without feeling that they’re hard. You know, he’s just built that way. No, our daughters need to understand we struggle with those things. And sometimes we make mistakes, and sometimes we’re scared, and sometimes we don’t know what to do because guess what? They’re having all those same experiences.

Chad Mitchell [00:23:17]:
But so often kids look at adults and they don’t understand the struggles that adults are going through. And so I think as dads, really connecting our appropriate experience that are hard for us, that are challenging for us, where we make mistakes that are appropriate to share with our daughters based on their age, based on their circumstances, based on what we’re going through, I think that’s a great way for our kids to see the reality of what it means to live a life. It’s hard. There’ll be challenges, we’ll make mistakes, but hey, dad can do it. He’s not as funny as he thinks he is, and he can do it. I can do it, too. And I’m going to take confidence and examples from my dad, both his positive things and his negative things and the times he screwed up and use those to get through life when I do those same things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]:
Now, Chad, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions, they delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? You bet.

Chad Mitchell [00:24:09]:
Let’s do it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:10]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Chad Mitchell [00:24:14]:
Love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:14]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Chad Mitchell [00:24:18]:
I don’t know who to attribute this to, but it’s dads Love your mother. Let your daughter see how you love their mother. Because we want our girls to choose that type of relationship for their spouses. And I know some of our listeners probably divorced. I haven’t had that experience. I’m. I’m sensitive to it. And I would say, again, not having had that experience, if you can still love your wife at some level, your ex wife, I mean, that’s going to help everyone in that relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:47]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Chad Mitchell [00:24:50]:
Going for walks, especially walks on the. On the Oregon coast. One of my favorite things. I love it. Hikes. Well, I love going hiking with the girls. I’m not sure they always like to go on the hikes, but we always had a good time, the way I remember it, at least.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:02]:
Chris, if you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:08]:
Follow Jesus Christ.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:09]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:14]:
I got a lot to work on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:15]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:22]:
Be authentic. Don’t hide the hard parts of life from your daughters. You know, as appropriate, invite them into that. Let them see that there are things that you’re great at, but there are also things that you struggle with, things that you’re unsure about, because they’re going to have all those experiences. And I think you equip them better to deal with them if you can have those discussions about your experiences when you’re a father and their experiences as they go through teenagehood, which we know is a huge challenge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:50]:
Well, Chad, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today and for sharing everything that you’ve shared. If people want to find out more about you or the book, where should they go?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:57]:
Well, I appreciate you having me on, Chris. This has been really fun. You ask really good questions. So hopefully these help the dads. If you want to find more out about me or my book, you can go to my website, jchadmitchell.com and the book will be available in January. And it’s change your game. Empowering young leaders to ditch doubt, find their voice, and impact the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:21]:
Well, that wraps up today’s conversation with Chad Mitchell and what a powerful reminder it was that our daughters matter. Their voices matter, their choices matter, and their leadership matters. As dads, we have the privilege of walking alongside them as they discover who they are and the impact they can have. Thank you for being a part of this community of fathers committed to raising strong, confident, compassionate young women. And if this episode encouraged you in any way, share it with another dad. We’ll see you next week on the dad and Daughter Connection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:57]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:07]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting.

Building Brotherhood: How WeBus Connects Dads for Support and Growth

October 27, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Fatherhood doesn’t come with a manual—but the journey is deeply rewarding, especially when you’re intentional about connecting with your daughters. In a recent episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Wes Piatt and Chris Roness—two dedicated dads and founders of WeBus International—to dig deep into the realities, challenges, and incredible rewards of raising daughters.

One of the main themes woven throughout this heartfelt episode is intentional presence. Both Wes and Chris reflect on their own meaningful moments with their daughters, highlighting how vital it is to be truly present. As Chris shares, “It’s those moments where they come to me because dad’s got the answer… it’s all about being present with my kids.” Wes echoes this commitment by intentionally setting aside daily time to let his daughters choose activities, stressing that, “Whatever they want to do, I’m going to be a part of it.”

The episode doesn’t shy away from the hard parts either. Both guests open up about mistakes and moments of failure, offering reassurance that vulnerability and honest communication are essential. Chris tells a story about miscommunicating with his daughter about their schedule and how owning the mistake, genuinely apologizing, and learning from it turned it into a powerful teaching moment. Wes reinforces that failure is not only inevitable but also an opportunity for growth, both as a father and for teaching his daughters resilience.

Another profound theme is connection among fathers. Wes shares his personal struggles during a challenging time and how reaching out to other dads led to the creation of WeBus—a supportive community where men can share experiences (not unsolicited advice) and lift each other up. Through this network, fathers form bonds, share practical solutions, and most importantly, realize they’re not alone on this path.

The episode wraps up with actionable wisdom: be present, cherish powerful moments, communicate openly, and seek connection—both with your children and other dads. As Wes and Chris emphasize, it’s about being the man and the example you want your daughters to look up to.

Whether you’re looking for inspiration, a reminder that imperfection is part of the journey, or simply some practical dad-to-dad guidance, this episode is packed with genuine stories and strategies. Tune in to the “Dad and Daughter Connection” for insights that will help you become the dad your daughter needs—and maybe find a brotherhood along the way.

Ready to listen? Find the episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com and take the next step on your fatherhood journey.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week. I love being able to reconnect with you, to talk with you, to be on this journey that we’re both on together in raising our daughters and building those strong connections that we want to have with our daughters. One step at a time. Because none of us are thrown into fatherhood with that manual, per se. We have to learn it along the way. And it is so important to have strong connections with our daughters, and especially our daughters, because of that bond that happens between a father and a daughter and all of the research that shows the power of the relationship between the father and the daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:36]:
So every week, I love being able to talk with you, to walk with you on this path that you’re on, but also introduce you to other dads that are doing their best to be the best dads they can be. And we got two great guests today. We’ve got Wes Pyatta and Chris Ronas are here. And we’re gonna be talking to them not only about being fathers of daughters. Cause Wes has two daughters himself and Chris has three daughters. And we’re also, though, going to talk about their new venture, their new business that they’ve been working on for a bit now that is called Webus International. And we’re gonna be talking about that as well. So we’ll learn a little bit more about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]:
So, Wes, Chris, thanks so much for joining us today.

Wes Piatt [00:02:23]:
Heck, yeah. Thanks for having us on.

Chris Roness [00:02:25]:
Yeah, man, thanks for having us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
This is the dad and Daughter Connection. And I think one of the things that I’d love to ask you first is as you think about the relationships with your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Wes Piatt [00:02:39]:
Man, I had some pretty amazing moments with both of My daughters, they were born early and both in the NICU for a few months. And I remember there was specifically one moment with my daughter Joey where we had a rough time in the parking lot right before we went in and just kind of soaking in the extreme nature of everything we were dealing with and our first child and all this stuff. And I’ve got my hands in the little incubator and I’m trying to change her diaper on this little tiny, tiny human. I mean, she was the size of my hand. And the nurse walks over and goes, oh, let me show you how to do that with one hand. In that moment, I was so grateful for all the time that we had in the nicu, all the time that we were going to get in the nicu, because I felt like I got like a. You said we don’t have a manual for being a. I felt like they gave me a manual on so many things.

Wes Piatt [00:03:26]:
I was in the NICU both with Joey and with June because June was also born early. And having that time going into the nicu, June and being actually excited about it, knowing she was going to be fine, and then knowing I was going to learn even more from these amazing nurses that were there for 20, 30, 40 years teaching me how to do all these little things that most dads don’t get. It was an amazing, not necessarily like moment in time, but I guess like per se, but, but amazing time within their lives where I learned like, man, bad things can really lead to some pretty awesome stuff.

Chris Roness [00:03:58]:
Wow, dude, that’s powerful, man. Dude, Chris, that’s hard. You want me to just pick one? I’ve been blessed to have millions of them. And I think if there’s a theme about any one of them, it started just like Wes was talking about. From the day they were born until even today, Even with my 12 year old who’s doing the pre teen thing, it’s those moments where they come to me because dad’s got the answer, you know, they’re coming to me as a sign of strength and all the things and. And to me it’s feedback. To me, the second that I got my first daughter, the doctor handed her to me. He goes, $150 a month.

Chris Roness [00:04:30]:
And I was like, what is this? My bill? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, $150 a month. That’s how much you need to put in the bank every month for this child. So that someday down the road, whether it’s education or a wedding or something meaningful to them, you’ve got that Money set aside to give them a good quality life. But it was the awe of having this kid in my hand and still realizing it’s so much more than that. It’s so much more than that. And, and for the kids, like this 12 year old now who doesn’t even know that I’ve been putting $150 a month towards her. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not about some sort of material thing. It’s those moments where, like we talked about that bond that we’ve had through all those little moments where they’ve come to dad because Dad’s the answer.

Chris Roness [00:05:12]:
Even at 12, it’s not exactly the same conversation. It’s not a hug, it’s not. Whatever. She loves Benson Boone now, man. Like, she just loves this dude. She loves to sing. She loves to sing his songs. And so at nighttime we connect around his videos.

Chris Roness [00:05:27]:
And that’s my moment to just give her space so that she can say whatever she wants to say. And every single time that I provide that opportunity, she capitalizes on it and she’ll say, hey, Dada, let’s talk about this or let’s talk about that. And she’ll just start going and it’s awesome. So to me, it’s those special moments where they just, they need me. And for me, that same moment was recognizing that I had to be the best human, best man I could be because I’ve got three daughters and at the time, no sons, and now I have a son. But regardless, my thought was I need to be the best example of a man I can be for them so that someday they’ll bring me home three awesome sons.

Wes Piatt [00:06:01]:
Word. That’s it right there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]:
So what I’m hearing both of you say, I mean outside of those first moments, is being intentional being intentional with your time, being intentional with the moments that you do have with your daughters. So talk to me about what are some intentional ways that now you’ve worked to or you’re working on strengthening that bond with your daughters. Even during challenging times, man, I make.

Wes Piatt [00:06:27]:
Sure that every day we do something intentional together. I literally just posted this on my Instagram this morning about how I make sure every single day my phone is away and we’re doing something that they want to do. What do you guys want to do? And Dad’s coming along for the ride. Let’s go do it. And it’s not something I had pre planned or something I want to do or are going to lead to even a goal at the end of it. It’s just Whatever they want to do, and I’m going to be a part of it.

Chris Roness [00:06:51]:
Yeah, that’s good, Chris. One thing I didn’t disclose that I should have is we actually had four daughters, but one of them, at 37 weeks, didn’t make it. And that was a really hard time as a parent and as a husband. But also, at the time, I was a senior leader in the Air Force running a unit, and I had a lot going on. But what that child taught me in that moment was the power of a moment. And I realized I was constantly like, in a minute, kid, I got to finish this thing first, or I got to finish that thing, or, I’ll be right there. Just give me one second. I got to finish up this thing.

Chris Roness [00:07:22]:
And it was always a thing that I always had to finish up because I was doing important work, right. As a dad, not realizing that the important work was right in front of me. And so now, as a result of that powerful lesson that I got from my daughter, Ava, was her name is. Her name was the power of a moment. So now, to me, being intentional is remembering that once this moment’s gone, it’s fleeting. Like I’m never going to get it back. So when my child comes to me with a picture that they’ve drawn, and I’m in the middle of 500 things that I feel are super important that have got to be done right now, I can catch myself and go, this is what’s important. Show me this picture.

Chris Roness [00:07:58]:
Let’s be intentional about this moment. Because once the moment’s gone, you can’t get it back. And I’ve been able to do that with everything. It totally has changed my perspective on everything, and I feel has made me a much better father because I’m much more present with my kids, with everything. I mean, now I’m involved in everything they do, and I don’t want to miss moment for that only reason. And life has actually been so much better and more forward. And guess what? All those things that I thought were important, they weren’t, and they still got done.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]:
They definitely do get done. Even though at times in our minds we’re like, oh, oh, no. You know, we gotta get it done. But I. I completely hear you there. And there’s been many moments in my own life that that’s definitely happened, and moments where, as you kind of said, you make the wrong decision and you look back later and you’re like, ah, dang. You know, I shouldn’t have done that. So I.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]:
I guess one question that I would have is none always right. And then we’re always going to make mistakes. We’re not infallible. So what’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communications with your daughters?

Chris Roness [00:08:59]:
That’s good. I got one just yesterday, a simple one. But we have a very busy schedule with all the kids activities. They’re all, of course, doing something different. And I communicated to one of my daughters that today was going to be a day that she was going to ride the bus to go home with her brother while I took another kid to an appointment. And yesterday she thought was the day, not today. And so as I was picking them all up yesterday, she went and got on the bus instead of getting in the vehicle. And I had to send one of her sisters to get her.

Chris Roness [00:09:31]:
And her sister was a little fiery.

Wes Piatt [00:09:32]:
She’s like, come on, you gotta go.

Chris Roness [00:09:33]:
Get off the bus. And she was. She’s a very. She has a very big heart and wears her heart on her sleeve. And she just got to the vehicle just completely upset. Dad, you told me today was the day I had the option to go home. And on that I was like, okay, guess what? I confused you. I miscommunicated.

Chris Roness [00:09:50]:
And I just took the time to explain to her how I made the mistake and that I was going to own it and that we were going to move forward though, you know, hey, so this is on me. I told you about something, but the something that I told you about doesn’t actually happen until tomorrow. And I wasn’t strong enough in my communication about what we were doing today. And so I gave her genuine apology by saying the three things that go into a genuine apology. Hey, what I did wrong, right? That I’m genuinely sorry about it, and what I’m going to do about it in the future to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Hey, I’m going to communicate better about what we’re doing today. Then I’ll go into what we’re doing tomorrow, but I’ll follow it back up with what we’re doing today just so we don’t make this mistake again. And the power of that conversation was she went from completely upset and hurt and emotionally distraught to just, okay, I’m good.

Wes Piatt [00:10:35]:
I can’t come up with a single one. But I think for me, the biggest takeaway is what I do after I mess up. It’s that I go back and I tell them I’m sorry. I explain what I did. I go through exactly what switch has talked About Chris just talked about that. It’s. I’m not perfect and it’s okay not to be perfect as long as you do these few things after you’re not perfect and you learn from it and you get better from it and you move on from it and we grow from it. It’s like, I want them when you talk about failure, they’re super into gymnastics.

Wes Piatt [00:11:07]:
That’s like their sport now. And. And we talk about failure constantly, how much we look forward to it and we can’t wait for it. And when it does, it’s opportunity to get better. And it’s like there is no such thing as bad failure. And even when dad messes up, like, look, I’ve been around this earth for almost 40 years now, like, I’m still screwing up the most basic things and that’s going to happen forever. And that’s totally okay. I think that that’s the most important thing.

Wes Piatt [00:11:29]:
And they know that failure is good and failure is okay as long as we learn from it and do it. What Chris was talking about in recovery, I guess you could say from the failure or whatever you want to call.

Chris Roness [00:11:37]:
It, we call it debrief in our family. Debrief what we learned.

Wes Piatt [00:11:41]:
Let’s go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]:
I mentioned that the two of you a organization called webus International. So talk to me about webus. What is it? And talk to me about those origin stories. What inspired you to start the organization and how did your role as dads influence the vision?

Wes Piatt [00:12:00]:
I’ve told this story now probably a dozen times and I’ve cried every single time. I’m going to do my best to hold it together because it is we bus is what has kept me alive. And there was a moment. I own a CrossFit gym, small business owner, my wife as a teacher and for context, I used to be a firefighter. So I was a full time firefighter before I opened up the CrossFit gym. And I was doing both for a little bit where I was traveling down, doing my shifts, coming back up, coaching all the classes, traveling down and doing the thing. And I had a call, I went on that made me decide like, oh, I’m actually going to follow this path instead of this one. And I really regretted that during COVID because my business was getting shut down, all my members were leaving and everything seemed like it was like, man, I just made so many bad choices up to this point.

Wes Piatt [00:12:49]:
Like, why? Also for context, me and my sister grew up with just a mom and she happened just so happened to be bipolar and have schizophrenic episodes. So we had quite the upbringing. And during COVID I was having a really hard time controlling my reactions, controlling just the simplest things would set me off. And I. And I was just so upset with all the choices I had made and where I put my family, kind of, in a sense. And I started to get nervous. And maybe, actually this was a bipolar beginning to show itself in me. And maybe I had what my mom had.

Wes Piatt [00:13:24]:
And at the time, we just had. We had one child, and we were about to have our other one. And I was thinking to myself, you know, if you off yourself, these kids won’t remember you, and your wife can remarry. Find somebody who’s not in the financial situation you’re in. Find somebody who doesn’t have these triggers that you do and doesn’t have all of this background. And you can actually, actually, really, maybe your job was really just to bring these kids here and to peace out. And I was really considering it. And I was considering it so much so that I actually created a list of things that I had to do before I did the thing, because me and Switch were in the military.

Wes Piatt [00:14:01]:
I was in the Air Force as well for four years. And I was along with Switch, but I had quite a few friends who had committed suicide after getting out of the military. And that’s what Switch does, is his other. This is where I usually start to get choked up a little bit with his other company that he has called. You Matter, and you Matter focuses on ending veteran suicide, which is obviously an epidemic that’s happening around the world, and something that we need to work on and we are working on. But I digress. I was mad at every single one of them that did that because they didn’t call me first and they didn’t just go, hey, I’m struggling. I just wanted to let you know maybe you could help.

Wes Piatt [00:14:36]:
And so one of the things on my list that I had to do is I had to reach out to people and let them know I’m not doing good. This is where I’m at, just letting you know. And I was too nervous to do that with the people that were closest to me because I didn’t want my life to feel different. I wanted to be able to go to my family and my staff and everybody else and for things to be like, hey, we’re doing our best. Like, keep it going. You know, like, we rock and roll. And not for them to be like, oh, poor you, and how can I help you? And all that. I didn’t want that.

Wes Piatt [00:15:03]:
So I reached out to a bunch of strangers on Instagram, a bunch of people that I kind of know, but don’t really know in the CrossFit space, and just told them, like, hey, I’m struggling. I don’t know if you’re feeling the same, too, owning a CrossFit gym or being a CrossFit coach or any of that kind of stuff. And I just got back nothing. But, yes, I am struggling. This is tough. I’ve actually thought about doing that as well. And, like, I’m, like, I had multiple people go, thank you for reaching out to me, because I’m actually thinking about doing that. And this is just serendipitous.

Wes Piatt [00:15:30]:
This is amazing. This is happening. And we just started meeting on this app called Marco Polo that my wife was using, actually, with her college roommate friends to stay in touch. And it’s a really cool app that you can send a FaceTime video to any, anybody, and they can respond with another FaceTime video whenever they have time. And there’s a bunch of other cool stuff you can do with it. But I was like, hey, would you guys want a battle buddy check? Let’s just check in on each other, like, once a week and just keep the momentum going. And that slowly turned into over a hundred dudes around the world that call themselves We Bus Dudes and talk vulnerably on this app called Marco Polo about their struggles. And.

Wes Piatt [00:16:05]:
And it’s become an amazing thing, because right when we started it, we had one rule, and that rule was that you could not give advice. And when we say advice, objectively, what we mean that is something that you actually haven’t experienced or been through yourself, but you feel you could maybe help somebody else out with. And this is what we call the bro advice. You call your buddy up. You’re struggling with this thing. They’ve never been through it. They have no idea what you’re going through, but they’re like, oh, bro, here’s what you’re going to do. My cousin went through this thing, and here’s the best way to fix it, and blah, blah, blah.

Wes Piatt [00:16:32]:
And you’re just like, that’s not what I want from you right now. What I want from you is just to listen and to hear me and to sympathize and empathize with me, and that’s all I really need. And so we made one rule. We said you can only share experiences. So you, come on, share your experience you’re going through. For example, I’m going nuts. I can’t get my Girls to get dressed and eat breakfast and out of the house in time and to school in time without it being just an absolute nightmare. Anybody else experiencing this as well, and you’ll have like 50 dudes that will come on there, all varying ages, all kids of all ages, all been through the gamut and all coming with experiences of how they solved it in completely different ways.

Wes Piatt [00:17:12]:
Ways. So now you have this experience where these people are getting to go, hey, yeah, here’s how I did it. Here’s how I did it. Here’s how I did it. And then this guy just gets to go like, oh, maybe I’ll use that. Maybe I’ll use that. Maybe I’ll use none of it. Maybe I’ll use some of it.

Wes Piatt [00:17:24]:
And the idea is that they’re going, checking in to see, like, hey, I remember going through that. Where are you at now? Because I remember where I was at. And they check in. And so we both started in my garage on the floor, literally thinking about killing myself to where it’s at now where I. We just did our last we bus camp in South Dakota and just looking around at all the guys there and all the things we were doing to Mount Rushmore, it was just. How do you go from being at that point to being at that point and within a relatively short amount of time? And the answer to that is with the brotherhood. We bus is just straight dudes that want to be better humans to make this world a better place. And the only way that they’re doing that is by just sharing their traumas and their experiences with each other and being vulnerable and being open.

Wes Piatt [00:18:10]:
And I’m very proud of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:12]:
Can definitely tell, I guess in thinking about that and thinking about what you went from, from where you were to where you are today, and you think about the business that you’ve created. I know that webus emphasizes collaboration, connection. And I guess as you think about that and what you’re learning from other dads in relation to your own fatherhood journey itself, how does that collaboration and connection that you’re do, that you’re building in the organization, align with the way that you’re either raising your daughters to interact with you or interact with others.

Wes Piatt [00:18:45]:
It goes back to what Chris said earlier. We’re trying to get dads to be the people they want their girls to marry.

Chris Roness [00:18:51]:
Yeah. We have a kind of a little mantra on the webus. We. We tell folks, get off the struggle bus and get on the we bus because we’re helping the world be a better place. One dad at A time and the power of the shared experience concept organically. Like, it’s not like we designed it to do what it’s doing beyond that, but the secondary and tertiary effects of what’s happened is you don’t see any really heavy discuss about beliefs regarding faith or politics or anything like that. But that’s not to say that those things don’t come up. They come up through a shared experience.

Chris Roness [00:19:22]:
Hey, I’m going through something. I’m struggling with this thing I just saw, or I’m struggling with this direction I want to go with my faith. Does anybody have an experience with this? And then those folks will either break off and have a separate conversation on what we call a solo polo, or we even have topic rooms now, where, for example, we’ve got one called the workshop. And in the workshop, this is where dads have unique skills of handyman skills, whatever those might be. You can go in and go, hey, guys, I’m working on this today. Let me show you how I’m doing it in case you ever come across this, and vice versa. Maybe somebody is a dad now that didn’t have a dad to show them how to fix a flat tire on a bicycle. Well, you could go to YouTube and look up that stuff.

Chris Roness [00:20:00]:
But the difference is on webus, you go to the workshop, you can go, hey, guys, I’m gonna fix this flat tire. And you’ve already got a group of guys that you’re connected to that will not only walk you through that, but they’ll walk you through how that connects to a life experience or a connection that you can have with your child by maybe walking your child through how you’re doing that at the exact same time, things like that. And it’s just really powerful because the other organic thing that we’ve discovered with this is that men are coming out of the woodwork to join us on we bus because of this shared experience. And one of the interesting things that happens right off the bat is a new dad. Well, he’s just going through it and he’ll listen to what the other dads are saying for a while first before he even says anything. And then that dude will come on and just let it all out. And you can watch them. You can watch them just as they’re letting it out.

Chris Roness [00:20:44]:
And that becomes the beginning of the first step to how they’re going to be a better dad. Because now they’re open to gathering all this shared experience from everybody else and learning in a whole nuanced way that is not deliberate. It’s not constructed, it’s not academic. It is just life as it’s happening in everybody’s lives as we learn from each other. It’s powerful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:05]:
You know, in thinking about those experiences where you’ve seen dads unburden themselves and be able to share the things that they’re going through, can you share a moment for each of you where your connection with another dad through webus had an impact on your own fatherhood journey?

Wes Piatt [00:21:23]:
Oh, my gosh, dude. So many. Every day there’s something in there that we connect with with somebody. Like just the other day, I was connecting with Nick on CrossFit stuff and he tried his first CrossFit class and he was so nervous, and I was giving him all the ins and outs on how to do it and where to go and who to talk to and where not to stand and where to stand. And it’s like a little like, insiders, insider. And that’s what, you know, Chris was talking about with the. These groups that we have in these, like, breakout rooms. So you have like the main we bus and then all these breakout rooms that people can find their little niche in.

Wes Piatt [00:21:53]:
And when they get in that niche, they really get to work through whatever that little thing is that they’re struggling with, with people that are more connected to that little thing too. Nick was really struggling just with wanting to improve his fitness a little bit more. And he just like, you know, I’m stuck at a wall. I don’t know where to go from here. And there’s like five dudes that came rushing in with, like, experience up the wazoo to be like, like, well, here’s like 15 different things that you can do and choose what you want. We’re here to support whatever way you need. That’s rock and roll.

Chris Roness [00:22:20]:
Yeah. I’m telling you, there’s like this deeper level. I can’t point to one exactly, like, one particular thing because there’s so many things that I’ve learned from all these guys across the gamut. I mean, when I started on Webus, I wasn’t doing CrossFit, although I was familiar with the sport because we would do it when I was deployed in the military and I just retired from the military, had landed myself in a small town and was trying to find, like, we got spoiled in the military. Here’s the gym, here’s the everything you need right there on the base. And now I’m in this small town trying to find those same resources, and I couldn’t find them anywhere. And I was able to go on here and talk to these guys that did CrossFit and go, hey, tell me some more. Now, I do it regularly, and I’ve learned that for me, that particular sport isn’t something I do for the fitness.

Chris Roness [00:22:59]:
To me, fitness is the byproduct. I go to the gym for the community. But in that vein, like, one of the things that happens through these dialogues, as you start to learn more about these guys at a deeper level. And so Wes, we’ve known each other what, three years maybe?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:12]:
Yeah, right.

Chris Roness [00:23:13]:
Well, check this out. I just learned. I was yesterday years old when I learned that Wes plays the drum. And it’s all because we started a recent topic group called the Bandwagon, where guys that play musical instruments or just want to talk about the songs that they enjoy can get in that chat room and play music together or talk about music or whatever. And Wes is like, yeah, here’s my trap set. I’m like, what, dude? You play the drums?

Wes Piatt [00:23:33]:
Like.

Chris Roness [00:23:33]:
Like, we’ve been very close. We’ve had very deep conversations, and I never knew this. Here’s another example. One of the guys on weboss is a good friend of mine that I went through basic training with over 20, like almost 30 years ago. And me and this guy have talked regularly for 30 years. And it was not until he joined Webus that I learned he was a Batman fanatic. Had no idea. 30 years I knew the guy, had no idea.

Chris Roness [00:23:55]:
He loved Batman. And that’s kind of what happens. You get into this level of understanding somebody just through shared experience on a different perspective or scale. And there’s all these resources right there for you. If you just. One of the things we do is what we call rfi. Request for information. Hey, guys, I’m getting ready to make a decision.

Chris Roness [00:24:11]:
Has anybody dealt with this? And it’s powerful.

Wes Piatt [00:24:13]:
Yeah, that’s how I got my financial planner, actually.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]:
As interacting with dads in this way and as you’re listening and you’re taking in all that they’re experiencing, I know that you’ve got dads and non dads that are in the community that. But in talking with the dads, what are some of the challenges, the unique challenges that you’re seeing that these dads are collectively having? And how is your organization working to either connect those dads together or help them to be able to work through those in different ways? What have you learned through this venture that you’ve been on?

Chris Roness [00:24:49]:
And I’ll offer one right now. The number one thing that we see consistent is that dads feel like, they’re doing it alone. They feel like they’re in it alone, that they’ve got to be the strong horse for the family. They’ve got to push through. They’ve got to do all the things, and they can’t just. Like what Wes was saying, like, they can’t let those people know that they’re going through a moment, or at least they think that, because they have to be the strong horse. And. And when they come into the we bus, we see that every single time.

Chris Roness [00:25:17]:
And I would offer that there’s a byproduct of using the app that we use with Marco Polo that everybody has benefited from because they mention it. And that is, as dads, we want to be problem solvers right off the bat. That’s our job. Hey, you got a problem? I heard my wife talk about this. I’m gonna go fix this. I heard my kid talk about this thing. I’m gonna go fix this thing. But especially as dads of daughters, you leave the video.

Chris Roness [00:25:38]:
Guess what? In order to listen to that video, you’ve got to literally sit there and watch it and listen. And the byproduct is we’ve all become much better listeners, and we’re all present as a result of that. And I think that’s one of the things that we all struggle with as dads is how not to just be problem solvers, but to be present and listening and to realize that we’re not in it alone, that there are other dads going through it too.

Wes Piatt [00:25:59]:
Do.

Chris Roness [00:25:59]:
And. And we can all connect around nothing but just that singular thing of fatherhood. And it’s just amazing.

Wes Piatt [00:26:05]:
Yeah. I mean, there’s so many things. And I think this is why we created. We call them dojos, and they’re these little breakout groups that we have. And we have dads that are going through divorces. We have dads that are thinking about getting a divorce and trying not to. We’ve got dads that are losing their job and trying to find a new job. We’ve got dads that are trying to get in shape.

Wes Piatt [00:26:23]:
We’ve got dads that have. Were in shape and now are trying to get back in shape. We’ve got dads that are trying to do everything. And so by creating these smaller group, one of the things that Chris really hammered on was Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and the amount of people you can actually have in your life and actually communicate well with and make sure you’re creating actual deep connections with. It’s got to be small. So we Keep those groups relatively small, eight to 10 people max. And we keep the people that are in there experts. Like, we gotta have somebody in that group that’s an expert in this thing in some way and can give you sound advice and help you out with where you really need it the most.

Chris Roness [00:26:56]:
And to piggyback on that a little bit, it’s not just about the dad that’s struggling. It’s about the dad that’s achieving high goals like Wes talked about. I mean, one of our dads started out as an alcoholic three years ago and weighed, like, almost 300 pounds. The dude has lost, like, 150 pounds, and now he’s an Ironman athlete.

Wes Piatt [00:27:11]:
We call him 75 heart because he’s gone through that so many times, and he’s become such a different human being. It’s insane. It’s literally. It’s like biggest loser transformation, but, like, in a healthy way now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:25]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I give you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as dads. You ready?

Wes Piatt [00:27:33]:
Yeah. Good.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Chris Roness [00:27:39]:
Love.

Wes Piatt [00:27:39]:
I was going to ask if I could use loving kindness as one word, but yes, love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Wes Piatt [00:27:48]:
That it goes really fast and so be present. That’s the only thing I found universally true.

Chris Roness [00:27:53]:
Yeah. It’s the same as, hey, 18 years. Goes really quick. Capitalize on the moment. The power of that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:00]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love to do together?

Wes Piatt [00:28:05]:
Oh, my gosh. Going to the beach or going skateboarding. Anything that has to do with activity, like just being. We got a big trampoline out back. It’s like 10 times a day. Can we go jump on the trampoline? You know, like, yeah, let’s go. But anything physical activity wise, they just want to go do it.

Chris Roness [00:28:18]:
Yeah, it’s the same with my daughters. They. They are all very active and. And very musically talented. One of the things that we all do together is we. We sing and play music together on our church youth group, and it’s a blast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]:
If you could give your daughters one lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Wes Piatt [00:28:34]:
You’re not perfect. Life’s not perfect, and that’s okay.

Chris Roness [00:28:37]:
I would say choose the person that you want to be with and the life you want to have very carefully. Those will be the two most important choices you ever make in your life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:46]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad.

Wes Piatt [00:28:51]:
Oh, man. I would say that failure is okay. I’ve learned honestly that because, like, I’ve said that my whole life. Yeah, failure is great. You learn from it. You grew from it. Let’s go. Hoorah.

Wes Piatt [00:29:00]:
You know, and then. But when you fail, you’re really upset about it. You don’t really learn from it. You don’t really take it. But I’ve really learned that. No, guess what, bro? You’re gonna fail hard no matter how much you prepare. And that’s good as long as, like what we talked about before, you come back and repair it and do what you need to do.

Chris Roness [00:29:16]:
The greatest growth and connection happens when you step out of your comfort zone. Man, changing diapers, the way I grew up was a mom’s job, but I got all into that. And the same thing with braiding hair and all the things is that big tough guy stuff. No, but man, the magic that happens with that. And that’s where the connections are at and that’s where the growth occurred.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Wes Piatt [00:29:46]:
I wouldn’t. I would just share experiences.

Chris Roness [00:29:48]:
The advice I’m going to give comes from a good friend of mine, Lindsay Ko, who lost his daughter to suicide. And I asked him what would he have done differently and he said, I would have been present more often. I would have just been present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]:
Well, Wes, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing what you are doing with your own daughters, but also what you’re doing with Webus. And if people want to find out more about Webus, where should they go?

Wes Piatt [00:30:11]:
Www.webusint.com and fill out the interest interest form. You’ll see it on the menu bar up top. And then our buddy Jeremy or Alan will reach out to you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:23]:
Well, again, I just want to say thank you. Thank you both for all that you’re doing to be able to connect dads with other dads, men with other men. It’s so important. It’s so important for men to have those connections in their life. And I really appreciate all the work that you’re doing with that and thank you for sharing your own journeys with your daughters. And I wish you all the best.

Wes Piatt [00:30:42]:
Same to you, Chris. Thanks for doing what you do in this space and keeping it going for so long. I really appreciate it.

Chris Roness [00:30:48]:
Absolutely, dude. Keep staying awesome. Chris, we really appreciate this, man. And we look forward to seeing all the other videos that are coming after this one and the ones before for sure. That’s a wrap for this episode of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:58]:
The dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:31:28]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents Bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes.

Musical Performer [00:31:58]:
By just like a dynamite blast Calling.

Musical Performer [00:32:03]:
Astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to.

Musical Performer [00:32:11]:
Them.

Musical Performer [00:32:15]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Performer [00:32:20]:
Be the best that you can be.

Toddler Wisdom: Parenting Lessons from Dr. Hasan Merali

August 4, 2025 by dadofdivas

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If you’re a father looking to deepen your relationship with your daughter and embrace all the wonder (and chaos) of parenthood, the latest episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” is a must-listen. This week, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Hasan Merali, a pediatric emergency medicine doctor, researcher, and author, for an insightful conversation that flips the script on how we view toddlers—and offers practical ways dads can cultivate meaningful bonds with their daughters.

Beneath the Tantrums: What Toddlers Can Teach Us

Toddlerhood is too often painted as a stormy sea of tantrums and “why” questions, but Dr. Merali’s experience—as both a physician and a dad—reveals something different: young children are bursting with curiosity, resilience, empathy, and joy. Drawing from his new book, Sleep Well, Take Risks, Squish the Peas: Secrets from the Science of Toddlers for a Happier, More Successful Way of Life, Dr. Merali explores how toddlers’ natural enthusiasm and openness hold powerful lessons for adults.

He urges parents to recognize that tantrums are fleeting (just a few minutes a day!)—what really fills children’s time is laughing, learning, loving, and connecting. By tuning into these moments, dads can nurture strong, joyful relationships with their daughters.

Building Bonds Through Presence and Play

One standout theme from the episode is the value of intentional time together. Dr. Merali shares how his paternity leave—six months spent at home during the pandemic—allowed him and his daughter to connect without distractions. He also discusses family traditions, like a soothing bedtime routine and regular father-daughter hikes, that help anchor their relationship even during life’s busy or challenging seasons.

Crucially, Dr. Merali encourages dads to embrace play—rediscover what you loved as a child and share that joy with your daughter, whether it’s music, sports, or just being silly together. Kids thrive off connection and fun, and those experiences build trust that lasts.

Raising Confident, Curious Daughters

The conversation delves into giving children space to struggle, fail, and try again—because confidence is built through doing, not just succeeding. Dr. Merali reminds dads to maintain a sense of curiosity, to model positive self-talk, and to let their daughters take (safe) risks, developing independence one small step at a time.

If you want both encouragement and actionable strategies for being the dad your daughter needs, tune into this episode. It’s a heartfelt reminder that the best parenting wisdom might come from the littlest voices in our lives.

Listen to the full episode at Dad and Daughter Connection and start building an even stronger bond today.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on those connections that we want to have with our daughters. I love being able to talk to you every week and coming back every week to talk about this important relationship that we have with our daughters and the important journey that we all have to be on to be able to build an even stronger relationship, building stronger connections with our daughters. That’s why every week I try to bring you different people, people with different experiences, different journeys that can talk to you about their own journey, but also some tools for your own toolbox and help you along the path.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:35]:
This week we got another great guest. Dr. Hasan Merali is with us and Dr. Merali is an Associate professor in the Department of pediatric at McMaster University and a pediatric emergency medicine physician at McMaster Children’s Hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. He received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School and a Master of Public Health degree from Johns Hopkins. And his research from focuses on child injury prevention in low and middle income countries. He’s published more than 25 peer reviewed journal articles. He has a brand new book that we’re going to be also talking about today called Sleep well, Take Risks, Squish the Peas, Secrets from the Science of Toddlers for a happier, more successful way of life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
I’m really excited to have him here and to welcome him to the show. Hasan, thanks so much for being here today.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:02:29]:
Yeah, thanks for having me. Great to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:31]:
It is my pleasure. Love having you here. And first and foremost, I want to talk to you a little bit about your own journey as a dad and especially a dad to a daughter. And I guess as you think about the time that you’ve been able to spend with your daughter thus far, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with Your daughter thus Far.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:02:49]:
You know, there are so many that come to mind. We had a very special bonding experience. Kind of unique. Number one, because I live in Canada and I’m very fortunate, I was able to take a paternity leave and I took six months off with her. So I was off when she was six months to one year. And that was also the first year of the pandemic. And so everything was pretty much shut down. My wife and I are both essential workers.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:03:10]:
So she was back at work, and Aria and I just had that time alone for six months and we didn’t have anywhere to go. And it was just the two of us @ home. So we had a very, very special bonding experience. And I think what really came out of that is the fun that we can have day to day. And one of the things I talk about and write about is how much young children love to laugh. And I think that’s just this special moment in time that we had those six months kind of continue daily where she is making me laugh every day. And I’m trying to make her laugh just as much, but she certainly is a funnier person. And I think that’s the special moment that continues on each day for us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:46]:
Now, I know your daughter’s still young and she’s still becoming her own person, but as she’s getting older, she’s probably asking more questions, starting to get into that why phase of things. How do you balance the idea that you want to guide your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into her own person?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:04:05]:
I really encourage that why question. And it’s just an important part of early childhood development and how little kids can learn at actually a much faster rate than most of us. And so. And I often don’t know the answer, and that’s okay. And I want her to teach her that. It’s an important question to ask, but it’s also okay if we don’t know the answer. And my job, I think, as a dad, is to instill that in her and maintain that curiosity, but also give her the tools of how we’re going to look things up. And so, you know, for example, one of the ways, a really great way is the library.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:04:37]:
And so we try to make it every week, but I’ll say every two weeks for sure, to the library, where we’re getting books on topics that she’s interested in or that she just becomes interested as she’s walking around and go through that. And so I really want to instill that curiosity, learning how do we get the answer Reading as part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:52]:
You talked about the fact that you got to spend that quality time with your daughter at an early age during COVID And I guess as you think about either those times or where you are today, what are some intentional ways you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during times that might not be the easiest, maybe those challenging times?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:05:14]:
Yeah, I think one of the ways that I’ve done that, you know, I live in a larger city. There’s just a large mass of people who live between Toronto and Hamilton, and I’m a part of that. But I didn’t grow up in. In a large city. I grew up in a very small town, a lot of wilderness in Northern Ontario. So one of the things that I tried to do more with her is take her out into nature. And we know all the health benefits for young kids as they’re developing, but also for adults as well. And so we try to go on hikes, which we can get to about 30 minutes away.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:05:42]:
And then at least two, three times a year, just her and I, without mom will go away out into cabins without electricity or running water, and we go canoeing and do a little bit of fishing. We use propane stoves. And that’s really nice because there’s no technology either. And I think that’s, yeah, for me, the best times of the year.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:02]:
Now, every one of us has to learn along the way. We’re not always going to be perfect. There’s going to be mistakes. There’s going to be things that we do that we look back on and say, why did I do that? What’s a mistake you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:06:20]:
I think one of the biggest mistakes certainly that I’ve made and I. And I see this in a lot of parents now that I’ve gone through the data, is jumping in when they’re struggling with something. I mean, there are certain things that she’s for right now, so she’s just not going to be able to do, and that’s fine. But there are a lot of other things where she needs to have that struggle and get to a point where she wants to ask for help or try to learn and figure out new ways to do things. And that point of where you jump in is sometimes far too early as a parent, when you’re trying to help them along, when you see them struggling or trying to work something out. And so that is something that I’ve really had to just watch and Observe her. She knows that I’m there. She knows that I’m there to support her.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:07:04]:
But I’m not actually going to do the thing for her until she’s given that a good shot or asked specifically for help.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:10]:
Now, you just mentioned the fact that you show her that you are there. What’s one way that you tangibly show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:07:20]:
Yeah. So one of the things, and she’s very. She asks about this is about schedule. And so, you know, she’s at the age where schedules become very important to her. And she has a little calendar. And so we can map out not too far in the future, but maybe a week or so. And so I am going to show her for that week and for that day of when we’re going to be together. And so she kind of has her school routine.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:07:43]:
You know, I work in the er, so I’m not always there in the evenings. Like this evening, I won’t be there. So I just make it very clear to her that, you know, today I won’t be there. It’ll be mom, but then tomorrow I will be picking you up. And we will do X, Y, Z. We have her in a few activities and that we’re going to do those things together. And I think that schedule and understanding on what day, at least today and tomorrow, what’s happening, where I’m going to be and where I’m going to be for her is important. And that really works well for her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:10]:
Talking about schedule, that leads to really traditions. Right. And routines, as you said, beyond what you just said in regard to that daily schedule, what’s a tradition that you’ve created thus far that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:08:27]:
Yeah, I think the most important one. And I actually wrote an article about this now. I’ll put it in the. In the show notes. I’ll send it to you because I think it’s really important and adaptable for adults, too. And that’s the sleep routine. It’s this toddler preschooler sleep routine that we do together every night. Takes about 45 minutes, an hour total.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:08:46]:
But it really helps us down and connect together at the end of each night that I’m there. And so what that means is about an hour before bedtime, we take a bath. After the bath time, we do some type of hygiene activity. Usually for her, it’s flossing and brushing. And then always before bed, we go through a book. And it doesn’t have to be any particular book. It can be one of her favorites. It can be one of the new ones that we’ve got from the library.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:09:11]:
But that time spent reading and that daily tradition of this is the bedtime routine before and mom is involved as well, I think really helps us bond and helps her get to sleep better and helps me get to sleep better because I do something similar a few hours later when I go to bed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:28]:
Now, I mentioned the fact that you have a new book called Sleep well, Take Risks, Squish the Peas, Secrets from the Science of Toddlers for a Happier, More Successful Way of Life. And I also, in your bio, I talk about all the different hats. You’re wearing many hats as a pediatric ER doctor, a researcher, and now an author, as well as a dad, husband, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So talk to me about the journey and what inspired you to write this book.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:09:58]:
Yeah, so I’m very fortunate that I day to day get to work with children. And I’ve been in pediatrics for about 15 years. And these young children in particular, and I focus on this magical age between 1 and 5 toddlers and preschoolers, they just think in such a different way and they do things so differently. And I’ve had such so many positive experiences with them. And then I look at kind of the media and what’s portrayed about toddlers, and I just see Tantrum, tantrum, Tantrum, and then something else, and then Tantrum. And that just doesn’t do them justice, and it’s just not who they are. And so this book really came out of what do I want to show the world about who these people really are? You know, tantrums last. We know this from the data, and if we look at the data, a median time of one to three minutes.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:10:43]:
So that means, you know, half of them are less than that time, half of them are more. It’d be very rare to get to 10 minutes and very rare to get to 15. But let’s say that’s true. 15 minutes. They’re awake for 12 to 13 hours a day. So what are they doing all of the other times? You know, they’re making connections, they’re learning, they’re laughing, they’re doing all these wonderful things. And when I dove deeper into the data on this, the way they live their lives actually maps perfectly well onto a lot of the adult wellness literature. And people just focus on toddler tantrums and what we need to do for them.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:11:14]:
I wanted to flip the script completely. And so my book doesn’t have anything to do with parenting. It is Wonderful for parents because they’ll get it, I think. But it is all the lessons that young children can teach us. And I really wanted to make sure that people know that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:29]:
We’ve already talked about the fact that your daughter Aria is between 4 and 5 right now. And so she’s right in the middle of the toddler and preschool years and getting toward the school years. So talk to me about that interplay of being a dad and how that. And also a doctor, and working with all these other kids in your professional practice, and how that influenced your research and writing.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:11:57]:
So she actually pops up quite a bit in the book because I started this book during the pandemic as well. The book proposal and my actual writing was between when she was between one and two, two and a half. So it actually occurred when she was at that age. And so I was able to pull in a lot of stories from her at that time, as well as a lot of my experience working with children in the ER as well. You know, one of my favorite stories and I and I write about this is the number of times I’ve been with young children who have had to fast because of me. I’ve told them to because they have belly pain and we have to do blood work, ultrasound, all of these things to them. And it’s been several hours that they haven’t eaten. And most of the time, good, they’re okay, they can eat.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:12:39]:
I tell the parents that the parents are ready with their favorite snack. It’s always some type of cracker, usually goldfish, something else. And they give this child these crackers. And they look at me, they’re able to tell just by my face somehow that I haven’t eaten. Also in six or seven hours. And, you know, multiple times it’s happened where they’ll just give me a cracker. I don’t even have to ask for it. Or they’ll take a couple and then offer it to me, or they’ll lick one and give it to me.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:13:02]:
And they’re just so kind and generous that these types of interactions really, really helped me put this all together. And I’ll say, just on kindness, hands down with the 20 years, I’d say of research I kind of dug through to write this. I don’t think there’s anyone kinder than young children.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:18]:
Let’s go a little bit deeper on that, because you do talk in the book about the fact that toddlers do show that pure empathy and kindness toward others. How can parents nurture and maintain those qualities as their kids grow older?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:13:34]:
Yeah. So I think one of the main ways, because kids naturally have this, as I mentioned, finding ways to give back or to helping them maintain that. So I think the easiest in some ways, but hard because it requires time, is some type of volunteer work. You know, every one of us and every little child has some cause that is very meaningful to them, whether that’s taking care of pets, whether that’s taking care of elderly people, something. So I think if that can be made into a family activity where there is some type of volunteer work and maybe it can be a structured thing where you’re going every week and that’s amazing, or maybe it can just be an informal thing where that’s happening once a month when you’re able to, is I think one of the ways that we can maintain their need and want to always be kind to others and make themselves feel happy from doing those activities.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:14:26]:
You know, earlier you talked about the importance of connection for toddlers and building those deep connections with others around them, whether it be parents or other kids or things like that. What do you think that fathers can learn from their about strengthening the father daughter bond?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:14:46]:
I think one of the ways that we can do that, and my daughter reminds me about how I can do this all the time, is with play. And you know, it requires no data to know that kids love to play more than adults do. And it’s something they inject into their lives all the time. And the older, the older we get, it kind of drops away. But there’s a lot of good research with adults that it actually helps us feel more relaxed, it makes us more fun to be around and more fun for the other person and all these wonderful benefits. So I would just encourage people to have that play in their lives. And one of the things I found that has helped me is to think about what are the things that I used to like to do when I was younger and kind of bring that to my daughter. So when I was really thinking back, one of the things I did when I was maybe in elementary school was play drums.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:15:38]:
And that was something a lot of fun for me. And so modified that and found a hand drumming class recently and started learning how to do play hand drums. And I’m fortunate that my parents are from East Africa and they have a large collection of hand drums that they don’t use, they’re just on display. But we picked these up, I gave one to my daughter and after I’ve learned a few beats, I’ve come home and kind of showed her a little bit. And this is one way where something fun for me that was meaningful for me as a childhood I can bring to my daughter. And I think that would be a great way for dads to introduce something new, but also to remember what it was like to be a child as well yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:12]:
I love that. And I know earlier I talked about that your daughter was at that age where I’m sure you’re getting a lot of the why, why, why. And they ask ton. Toddlers ask hundreds of questions a day. But the interesting piece is as you look at kids as they grow older, as you look at adults, so many adults hesitate to even ask one question in a meeting. So how do you feel that dads can encourage their kids to keep that natural curiosity alive as they get older and as they grow?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:16:43]:
Yeah, it’s such an important question and I’m glad you asked it. I have a whole chapter in my book dedicated to this about asking because it’s such an incredible thing that they’re able to do. And as you said, over time we just go over this like XY graph cliff of how many questions we ask. You know, if toddlers are left to themselves and they’re recorded, this is in studies, they can ask 107 per hour. It’s really incredible how many questions they’re just able to ask. And interestingly that they’re getting to the answer faster what they need to know. And that’s something important for us. But the other reason that they ask questions and that we should be asking questions, especially follow up questions, is that it is an incredible relationship building tool and that’s really born out in the data with adults as well.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:17:28]:
And so I think both ways, like encouraging your child to keep asking those questions and just doing everything you can to not get annoyed with those and realizing that they are doing it for a couple of different reasons. And then you yourself being inspired by them, because I think they’re inspiring people to ask more questions of not just them, but other people around you, especially at work or in other types of two adult relationships. Because that’s what actually has shown to make us more likable as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:55]:
I know that in the book you also highlight the way toddlers take risks without overthinking it. How can parents balance risk taking while still ensuring safety?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:18:08]:
Yeah, it’s a tough one and it’s a really, really good question because as a pediatric ER doctor, I see both ends of the spectrum. I see the absolute worst of it and I see all the minor injuries. And so most importantly, we have to make sure car Safety and pool safety and safety around ingestions, pills is there people they have to be in the correct car seat, there have to be four walls around pools and medications have to be locked up. But you know, most injuries around kids happen on the playground because they’re just out there, they’re enjoying themselves, they’re trying to do new things, they’re developing gross motor skills and they’re going to have falls and they have falls and they have cuts. And a lot of what I do with young children is fixing fractures and fixing cuts that they have and suturing them up. And I think it’s really, really important that we let kids on the playground scenario really just play and we don’t have to hover around them. We know from years and years of data that the vast majority of injuries that kids get in the playground setting are minor injuries. And we can fix almost all of them.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:19:10]:
And then we’ve gotten to the point where we’re just hovering over them and making sure that nothing else happens to them and it’s too much for them. They need that space, they need the room to grow. And I realizing this more and more that we’ve gone a little bit too extreme with the safety and we need to pull back. And it’s not like this in other countries. A lot of European countries will let their kindergarten grade one, grade two Asia just go into the forest and they’re watching them, but they’re not hovering over them. And they’re learning to discover those new natural obstacles that they need to engage with.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]:
Now some of what you just talked about really talks about resiliency in kids and the fact that children are resilient when they break a limb or they fall. And I guess as you have seen that and observed that in kids, not only what have you observed from children’s resiliency, but what from that resiliency can parents learn from?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:20:02]:
It’s a difficult issue. So many things come to mind and so many difficult diagnoses I’ve had to give over the years and more recently too. And it’s incredible the resilience of kids that I’ve seen who have to come to the hospital for so many different appointments with long term illnesses like cancer. I think one of the things we can learn from children is just that they’re able to maintain a positive attitude. They don’t get down on life as quickly and they don’t get down on themselves. And one of the things that they’re able to do much better than adults too is actually self talk and a Lot of their self talk, and it’s funny because they talk to themselves out loud. It’s so cute. Is very positive and it’s very encouraging.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:20:40]:
And a lot of our self talk that happens in our minds is very negative and we get down on ourselves a lot. And so to be able to learn from them and flip that script and get our minds in a more positive space, the way we talk to ourselves, I think is a. An easy but incredibly powerful strategy. One of the things just to give your listeners a practical takeaway is when you’re in that negative talk cycle, think of yourself talking to a close friend instead of yourself actually. And you’ll just notice the language completely changes of how you’re talking. And that can be one way to get out of that, that cycle.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:14]:
Following up on that self talk. I know that as you talk about that, it is a powerful tool for success with your kids and especially raising daughters. That self talk is really important because they will hear things outside of themselves. They will see things and hear things, and society will add things into the mix. So how do you believe that fathers can teach their kids to develop positive inner dialogue from that early age that continues as they get older?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:21:46]:
One of the ways, and multiple studies have shown this with older kids and adults and we can start to teach them this. And I think something that adults need to learn is substituting I for second and third person. So when we’re thinking about how we’re feeling, we have to use you and we have to use our third person name. So for example, when we’re in a very stressful situation and they put people in FMRI machines where they can measure the brain waves and they give them very aversive images and they say, what am I feeling? And then they measure the brainwaves and then the person again just says their name. So what is Hasan feeling? And when they do that, that the emotional reactivity centers in our brain are far tuned down. And so as kids get older, not at the age my daughter is at, but at maybe the age that your daughters are at, start to teach them the strategy of talking to themselves in second and third person. And it’s a very hard thing to get your head around. But once you start to do that, it starts to make a difference.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:22:38]:
And I think that’s one of the longer term things that we can definitely leave for our kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:42]:
One question that comes to mind after what you talked about in regards to resiliency in the way that kids process things is that, you know, I’ve seen so many Toddlers that just live in the moment and they embrace joy. How do you believe that parents can live more of that toddler mindset and add that into their daily lives?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:23:03]:
Yeah, I’m so glad you brought that up because, you know, we talk about living in the moment as an adult wellness thing, and there’s no one that actually is able to do that as good as toddlers are. And we can’t exactly get there because their brains are completely structurally different and they don’t have a developed prefrontal cortex. And so they’re not thinking about the future and, you know, what’s going to happen in next week or maybe even in a few days. And so they’re, they’re naturally in tune to that, and you can see that all the time because they’re looking at different objects and they’re noticing things that we would never notice. So it is an incredible skill. I wish we were able to do that more. One of the ways, and this I know has probably been repeated to your listeners so many times, is getting rid of that phone. And when I come home, I’m not perfect and I mess up a lot, but I try when I come home to put it in my nightstand drawer on airplane brain mode.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:23:50]:
And it’s there until my daughter goes to bed. And so that’s between 4 and 7:30pm at least those three, four hours when I’m with her. Not having the phone is, I think, the single best thing we can do to be more present with our kids. And I wish I was better about it. And I’m still working on it. And it’s a really good strategy to help this because they’re not interested in that as much and they just want to engage with you. And so if you’re with them and nobody has their screens, then I think that’s a wonderful way to be more in the moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:20]:
And I know you also talk in the book about how adults need to be more toddler. Can you share any specific examples that you might be able to offer where adults like us can be more toddler in our own lives and that may have shown positive results or that could show positive results in our lives?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:24:42]:
Yeah. And this is an incredible toddler superpower that is very obvious. And it’s their ability to say no. There is nothing more powerful than a toddler. No. When they say no, they really, really mean it. And it’s, it’s, it’s amazing. And I don’t mean to be too simplistic or that we should be rude about it, but it’s actually incredibly useful if we’re able to say no like they are, or as many times as they are.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:25:06]:
You know, we want to default to yes and we want to make sure that we don’t make the other person feel bad if we’re saying no when all these requests are coming towards us. But what that does over time, if we keep saying yes, it leads to overwhelm and an over scheduled calendar. And that’s not good for us either, especially when we have children and we need to be around them. And so I want to empower dads and I’ve had to learn to do this too because I just don’t have as much time anymore because I have a daughter is that I need to be better at saying no. And she’s taught me that really well. And so really evaluating the requests that are coming and one good strategy that can sometimes be helpful if it’s a bigger ask, is actually mapping that out on a calendar about the parts of the ask. If you have some type of report, for example, then you could break the report down into different subcategories and then actually getting a better estimate of the time before you say yes. Because we’re notoriously terrible at estimating also the time something will take.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:26:01]:
But the toddler no is something we should all be using more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:04]:
Now, you’ve given a lot of pieces of advice today. If there was one other key lesson that you’d want every person to take out of the book, what would it be?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:26:12]:
I think the other part is the toddler level of confidence is also incredible. They just think they’re able to do anything, including flying and things they’re not clearly able to do. And you know, we don’t have to be that extreme, but we also get to the other extreme where we don’t have the confidence to try these new things. And that’s really what helps us grow the fastest, is is trying these new things and having the confidence to do that. So I really admire them for that and I hope that everyone can see them for what they’re able to do with confidence to bring a little bit of more of that into our own lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:46]:
Now, if people want to find the book or follow your work, where should they go?

Dr. Hasan Meralis [00:26:50]:
So the easiest place is my website because it has everything in one place. Hasan Meraliy.com and that will have links to the book. And I’m very active mostly on LinkedIn as well as X. And you can find me there. I’m happy to connect and I post lessons we can learn from children multiple times per week.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:05]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our. Our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:13]:
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:17]:
Fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:22]:
I think it’s to go back to living in the moment and dropping the cell phone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]:
What’s one activity you and your daughter love doing together?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:31]:
Canoeing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:32]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:37]:
It’s to keep up her curiosity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:40]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Dr. Hasan Meralis [00:27:44]:
That I absolutely love being a dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:46]:
Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:55]:
Find the activities that you really love to do and bring those to your daughter. We talked about my example of the hand drumming, but there are things, and this is what kids need, is new experiences. And so there’s. There’s things that from your childhood that you can bring to your daughter and that will be incredibly meaningful for both of you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:14]:
Well, Hasan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for writing this book to encourage all of us to be more childlike, to be more like a toddler, and to start thinking about things differently and acting differently, but also being able to keep young no matter what age we are. And I truly wish you all the best.

Dr. Hasan Merali [00:28:36]:
Thank you very much. It was nice to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis

That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build strong, stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our dadanddaughterconnection@gmail.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:29:08]:
We’re all in the same boat is full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.