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Parenting is a continual journey, one that evolves as our children grow and as we, too, learn new ways to connect with them. This week on the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Eran Magen—father, relationship expert, and creator of the Parenting for Humans and Divorcing Dads resources—for a heartfelt and refreshingly honest conversation about fatherhood, connection, and resilience.

Presence Over Perfection

One of the central themes of the episode is the power of presence. Eran shares that being fully present—and putting away distractions, especially digital ones—lays the groundwork for genuine connection. Whether through playful activities like acro yoga or watching a favorite show together, the focus isn’t on orchestrating perfect moments, but on truly showing up for our kids, time and time again.

Respect and Emotional Safety

Eran emphasizes treating children with deep respect, validating their feelings, and giving them true space to express themselves. Instead of rushing to fix problems or dismissing their emotions, he advocates for really listening—even paraphrasing back what they’ve shared—to make sure they feel heard and understood. This builds not only trust but helps children develop a positive, self-compassionate inner voice that stays with them for life.

Connection Before Correction

Drawing from his work at ParentingForHumans.com, Eran introduces the concept of prioritizing connection over correction. When the bond between parent and child is strong, discipline becomes less about control and more about collaboration. It’s about building relational habits—like kindness, presence, and respect—into everyday life, so that challenges are easier to navigate when they arise.

Navigating Divorce and Co-Parenting

For fathers navigating separation or divorce, Eran offers wisdom and hope. He urges dads not to let shame or fear of disconnection hold them back from seeking support, or from fighting for meaningful time with their children. Even in limited circumstances, quality of presence trumps quantity—being truly engaged makes all the difference.

If you’re finding yourself in this position, then don’t agree to any schedule immediately. Instead, go to a divorce lawyer to learn more about what’s reasonable in your specific situation. In many cases, they’ll be able to provide in-depth guidance and even negotiate with other parties on your behalf. Understanding where you stand early on and your co-parenting situation keeps the focus where you want it: on spending time with your kids instead of arguing with your ex.

Whether you’re a dad seeking fresh ideas, a parent amid big transitions, or simply someone passionate about fostering strong family relationships, this episode is an inspiring listen. Tune in for practical tips, honest stories, and compassionate advice that will help you nurture lasting bonds—one present moment at a time.

Ready to be inspired? Listen now to the full conversation on the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast!

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love being able to talk to you about this connection that you want to build with your daughters. And we do that every week because it is a process. This journey that you’re on is going to be one where you’re going to have to learn, you’re going to have to grow, you’re going to have to be willing to be open to finding new ways to build that relationship day by day. Because as your daughter grows, you can’t just think that one way of doing things is going to happen and stay the same. You got to keep adjusting and being there, being engaged and helping your daughter one step at a time and being engaged and connected to your daughter in so many ways throughout their life. That being said, that’s why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences to help you along this journey, to give you some tools for your toolbox and to allow for you the opportunity to learn and grow, to be able to find new ways to build those stronger connections and to leave every episode with an opportunity to be able to start something new from the end of that episode on. This week we got another great guest. Dr.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]:
Aran McGinn is with us today. And Aron is someone that, as he says, he believes in relationships, believes in people and helps people to have better relationships. Perfect fit for you as a dad with a daughter. He’s also a father of a son, so we’re going to be talking about his own journey being a father. He’s been working with individuals for quite a few years and most recently he’s been created two new resources that are definitely going to help you as a dad. He has a site by the name of Parenting for Humans as well as divorcingdads.org we’re going to talk about both of these resources and some things that may help you along the way, depending on your own situation and where you’re at. And I’m really excited to have him here today. Aron, thanks so much for being here.

Eran Magen [00:02:18]:
My great pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]:
Well, it is my pleasure having you here. And as I said, you are a father of a son and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit into you as a dad to get to know you and your own journey. I guess as you think back to the time that you’ve had with your son thus far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with him and what made it so special?

Eran Magen [00:02:41]:
I’m glad you want to talk about my son, because it’s my favorite topic. And, you know, if we don’t watch ourselves, we’re going to have the podcast equivalent of me showing you every photo of my son except an audio version that I have. I’m. I’m one of those people. There are a lot of good moments. The most recent, I’ll go with the most recent that, like, stood out to me, which was really fun. And then I’m happy to scan backwards, if you want, and come up with even better ones. I do a thing called acro yoga, and Acroyoga has very little to do with yoga and more to do.

Eran Magen [00:03:04]:
Like, sometimes people call it partner acrobatics. It’s when. When people balance on each other. And a lot of parents do this with their kids, right? The parent lies down on his or her back, and the kid is on the parent’s feet, sort of belly down, arms forward, Superman, right? Like, we. We all do this with our kids, but it gets much more sophisticated, and you can do many more interesting things. People can sit on other people or stand on other people or flip around on other people and so on. And you can do it with grownups, and you can do it with kids, obviously. And it’s easier with kids because they’re little, alert.

Eran Magen [00:03:31]:
And so this is something that I’ve been doing with my son since he was little, and we do it a little bit. I kind of wish he was super into it and he’s kind of into it, but he’s the most into it when he can show off to other people, when it’s just the two of us. He’s like, I don’t know if I need to do it right now. But we were playing soccer in his school after I picked him up, and we’re playing with another kid that often plays with us there. And then my son went off and did something else. And in the meantime, I was doing some acro yoga with this other kid, introducing him to it, and his mom, who was there and consented to the whole thing. And my son ran back and really wanted to do some acro to show the other kid that he knows more. That was very motivating for him.

Eran Magen [00:04:06]:
And then we did, and it was fun. But then the next day we came out, and it was sort of the first day of spring here in Connecticut, and we. We just stepped out to the yard, and out of nowhere, my son says, dad, do you want to do some acro yoga? Do you want to practice? And my heart just Expanded. It was just so nice because he, he, you know, I didn’t suggest it, I never mentioned it, but it was sort of back on his mind. And it’s just so nice to feel like our kids are into things that we’re into and they want to spend time together doing those things. That was a really fun moment, but they’re just thousands of these stories. This is the most recent. I keep a spreadsheet that I made when he was born.

Eran Magen [00:04:36]:
When he was born, I did two things. I created an email inbox for him, which I occasionally write to things that I can’t say now that he wouldn’t understand. So I write stuff that I want to tell him, letters for later, and I’ll give him the login credentials when he’s. Or 18 or something. And the other thing I did is start this spreadsheet called Milestones and Memories and First Times. And I just sit down and write stuff that happened every once in a while. So I have like this long list that I can go through and see the things that were exciting for me. When he was 2, when he was 4, when he was 6.

Eran Magen [00:05:04]:
It’s really fun. And this is one of those moments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:06]:
As your son is getting older and you are trying to guide him and work to be able to mold and meld him into the adult that he is becoming, how do you balance guiding your son while also giving him the independence to grow into his own person?

Eran Magen [00:05:23]:
I think my job is mostly to provide kind of safety and nourishment and let him grow where he grows. I’m not trying too hard to move him one way or another. I’m vegan, for example. I don’t insist on him being vegan. Not my job, not his problem. I keep my home vegan because it’s more comfortable for me. But if he really wants to bring something into that, we’re in the supermarket and we’ll buy stuff and he really wants to get something that isn’t, that’s fine. Then we will.

Eran Magen [00:05:47]:
Certainly, if we’re out in the world and he wants to get something or word a party and he wants to eat a thing, everybody eating totally fine. And so I’m not trying exactly to mold him into anything. I’m trying to provide good supports for him as he grows into things. There’s a little bit of a gray line, right? Because if I see him kind of starting to spin out about something, be really anxious about something in a way that I think is not necessary, I’ll try to help him figure out ways to not be upset about it. And so is that molding? I sometimes ask myself. Yeah, but it feels very kind of benevolent and not coercive. You know, this. This feels more like me removing roadblocks than forcing him to go down a specific path.

Eran Magen [00:06:24]:
And so I really think there are many ways to describe the job of parent, and many people have lots of ideas about what those jobs are. I think they’re probably all true. I think one of the most important parts of being a parent, one of the most important jobs, is creating the voice that kids have inside their head, how they talk to themselves, because that voice will stay on for many, many years. And changing that voice requires a huge amount of therapy. And so that, to me, is a very, very important part of what I think about as a parent. How I hear him talking to himself and helping him adjust that voice. I’m not trying to tell that voice what to tell him to do. Right.

Eran Magen [00:06:56]:
It’s more how he relates to himself. So in a real sense, one of my primary jobs is making sure he has a good relationship with himself. What he grows up to be is up to him.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:04]:
What are some intentional ways you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your son, especially during challenging times?

Eran Magen [00:07:11]:
I would divide the ways into two big categories. I think one is just helpful habits, and the other is maybe specific events or specific things in time. The most important habit by far is bringing my full presence. Right. My phone is away. My phone is often on do not disturb. It’s 100% focus on him when I’m with him. And I think that makes an enormous difference.

Eran Magen [00:07:31]:
He’s not orbiting. We do stuff together. And when we’re not doing stuff together, then we’re not. Then we’re doing stuff separately. But if we are connecting, I’m fully there. I’m not splitting my attention. And I think that’s enormously important. The other thing that I do, I don’t want to make it sound like I am the first person to do this or the first to have thought about it, but I just think it’s so important, is I communicate with him with great respect.

Eran Magen [00:07:55]:
I treat him as a person, not as a soldier or a servant or an ignorant person or any of those things. If he has a question or if he has a thought, we really discuss it for as long as he wants to, basically. And when I see that he’s starting to look in different directions and is getting antsy, then we’ll go do something else. Like, we don’t have to belabor the point, but really taking Very seriously. His thoughts, his questions, his ideas, his opinions, they really count. So these are all things that I would put in the relational habits bucket in terms of the, like, more specific things that I do to strengthen the bond. We really do a lot of this stuff together. So for example, videos, YouTube, you know, or shows on Netflix or whatever, we watch those things together and we’ll talk about them.

Eran Magen [00:08:37]:
It’s a big part of what we talk about later. And I think it’s helpful to help him process and understand what he saw and what his opinion is and whatever. But I don’t just like send him off to watch a thing and then we do our next thing. A lot of this kind of activity is something that, that we’ll do together and it creates a huge amount of shared language and shared jokes and shared things. We also do just a lot of activities together. I’m into a lot of stuff and I’ll offer these things to him and if it’s of interest to him, then we’ll do it and we’ll go, you know, ice skating or practice proto jiu jitsu on the carpet or cook together or whatever, whatever it is. But a lot of time and a lot of shared activities. So I think this combination of doing lots of stuff that we both enjoy together and being very respectful of his preferences and opinions and thoughts and questions and ideas, and interacting him as though he’s an actual person and not less of a person than I am.

Eran Magen [00:09:26]:
These are probably the main columns supporting the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:29]:
What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection?

Eran Magen [00:09:37]:
There are a couple of things. I remember where I noticed my son having difficulties with some things. And I thought, ah, the world will correct this. I don’t need to step in. And that’s sort of a, I don’t know, call it like a general tendency that I have. I guess in some contexts it’s good, in some contexts it’s bad but. Or helpful and unhelpful rather. I guess.

Eran Magen [00:09:53]:
But I tend to wait until stepping in and intervening with something and often that’s a good thing. Like, you know, a lot of parents are really worried about their kids still using a pacifier when they’re X months old or. And I’ve never seen a kid in college with a pacifier in his mouth. You know, like these things tend to work themselves out, but people can get super worried. And so I’m usually of the opinion that like the world will fix this. We just give it time and this will work out. But there are some things where he really had difficulty, and I waited too long to step in and do what I would consider a more significant intervention. Right.

Eran Magen [00:10:27]:
Like some kinds of. I want to be mindful of my son’s privacy as well, because in 60 years, when he chooses to do something, or in 40 years or 20 years, you know, somebody digs up, the podcast says, oh, you used to do this thing. So I’m actually. I’m very mindful of the privacy of kids in sessions that I do, including, I guess, when I’m interviewed. This is the first time that I’m talking about this. But he had some social challenges that he was going through and were noticeable to me. And I thought, oh, the world will polish this off. This will be okay.

Eran Magen [00:10:53]:
And I think it was like, it. It required some sort of a more thoughtful, intentional intervention that eventually the school recommended, and then we did. And I think it’s been very helpful and not. Not too hard. We didn’t catch it super late. Like, no crisis resulted, but I could have done it earlier. I felt sad for not doing it, because it just would have made, I think, life a little easier for him during those, I don’t know, two, three years. And now there’s something that there’s a pathway that got laid down that was not the most helpful.

Eran Magen [00:11:20]:
And changing something and undoing something is always harder than it is just correcting course earlier on. So I don’t know if this is exactly answering your question in terms of, like, a relational mistake, but this is a parenting mistake that I feel that I made and learned from.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:33]:
No, it definitely does. And I think that, I mean, learning that is definitely something that all of us have to do along the way as well. Is there anything that you intentionally do to make your son feel valued and heard?

Eran Magen [00:11:45]:
There are a few things that I do. And really, a lot of how I relate to my son is in service of making him feel valued and heard. And so I’m trying to pick out the more specific things that I do because a lot of this is on my mind, kind of ongoing. How do I make sure that he feels like he has a voice? And so a few things that I can say when he’s upset about something. I remember this when he was two, and I remember this two weeks ago when he was seven and a half. I don’t shut down the upset. I spend some time, a good deal of time, letting him express the upset, and I’m still comforting him during the process. But I don’t say it’s not a problem.

Eran Magen [00:12:19]:
I don’t say, you know, stop crying. I don’t say, you know, I ask him to explain what happened and what was so upsetting. And I’ll kind of sit in it with him and I’ll paraphrase and say it back and so on. But I’m not trying to shut it down or fix it too quickly. And I think that’s really important because I’ve seen him develop this habit of as a result, I believe, of when something upsetting or surprising or scary happens, he’ll have the reaction, but then he’ll narrate the process back to me and sort of calm himself down as he more or less immediately gains an understanding of this story and what made him upset. I think that’s been really useful. But I think just in general, it’s a nice thing for people to do with one another, right? Not shut down the upset, but rather sit with it for a little bit and sit in it together. His opinions really matter.

Eran Magen [00:12:57]:
If he suggests things that didn’t occur to me, I’ll consider them really seriously. He’s at this point, he’s suggested some ideas for not just ways to spend a day, but like a vacation destination or a totally new activity that we’ve never done that he just heard about from a friend, and that becomes a real thing. We’ll research it together a little bit, and if it seems appealing, we’ll go and give it a try. So he really gets to to lead when he wants to, or at least suggest directions, and then I’ll operationalize it. But he has a real voice and a real say in how we spend time individually and as a family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:30]:
Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you have a few different resources that are available. You have your parentingforhumans.com website as well as divorcingdads.org and both of those were created not only to help others like yourself that were going through similar things, but also in your work and your engagement with people and seeing the need. You expanded that. And there are a couple of questions that came up when I looked at both of these sites. And I think first and foremost, when I was looking@parentingforhumans.com, your site emphasizes connection before correction. Can you explain what that means and why it’s so crucial for parents, especially fathers?

Eran Magen [00:14:12]:
It’s my strong belief and also my consistent observation that when the relationship between a parent and a child is good, everything is easy. There’s just not the constant conflict. There’s not the badgering. Do this now, like I told you a thousand times, things are just easy and smooth. And when people have a stronger relationship, then there’s more trust and there’s more willingness to be vulnerable and honest on both sides. And there’s more forgiveness and there’s more cooperation. And so spending time just laying the foundations and having a good relationship just preempts and prevents all these negative things that then need to get corrected. It’s sort of like living a life and eating well and doing a reasonable amount of exercise and sleeping enough, socializing and having enough fun, and then you just have to deal with a lot less, fixing medical problems.

Eran Magen [00:14:57]:
Right. They just tend to happen. And I think it’s very much like that in relationships too. Just spending time building a strong relationship rather than relying on occasional forceful corrections which leave everybody, I think, unhappy, basically. And for a lot of people growing up, the role of the dad is often as the disciplinarian. At least that’s the caricature. I’m not totally sure that that’s always true or even true the majority of the time. I know a lot of soft dads, and I know a lot of harsh moms, and I know a lot of harsh dads and a lot of soft moms.

Eran Magen [00:15:26]:
But I do think that a lot of men, certainly from the past three generations, grew up not being taught how to show affection in a soft way and how to connect in a way that feels warm and comfortable and consistent, as opposed to occasionally dropping in and doing some big gesture, but in the meantime being sort of cold or reserved or stoic. And when you don’t have a strong relationship, inevitably things start, start sliding and then you need big corrections to happen, which I think damage the relationship further. So I’m a big, big believer of creating that foundation of just a strong relationship through good daily, call it relational hygiene, just developing good relational habits. Things that we do without thinking over the course of the day as, as a habit that we, we adopt. And through that, strengthening the relationship constantly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:13]:
Now, many parents want to be more supportive, but fall into that problem solving mode. How can dads become better listeners and emotionally attuned to their kids?

Eran Magen [00:16:23]:
There’s one technique that I think is magic and keeps us safe. It keeps us from making these kinds of relational mistakes. And the technique is not only magic, but also super simple, which is what’s so nice about it, which is paraphrasing. Learn to say back what the other person said to you. And the, the thought behind it is the thought we want to have behind it when we’re paraphrasing. Is, am I understanding your experience correctly? Just that, right? So our kids come in, our kid comes in and looking, you know, unhappy. And we say, what’s going on? And kid is in a sharing mood that day. And she says, oh, my friend Jessica is being a pain at school.

Eran Magen [00:16:59]:
And so to be able to say in our heads, huh, let’s see if I understand correctly my kid’s experience and saying, so Jessica is being mean to you because that’s what we understood. And then our kid might say, no, no, she’s not being mean to me. She’s being super nice to me. But I know that behind my back she, blah, blah, whether we get it right or we get it wrong, it doesn’t matter. Just putting herself in a position and in kind of a mental stance of trying to understand our child, child. And all we need to do is say back what we heard. We don’t need to interrogate, we certainly don’t need to diagnose, definitely not give advice. Just getting in the habit of when our kid looks upset to just once, just for one turn, try to paraphrase, try to say back what we understood.

Eran Magen [00:17:40]:
And seeing what happens. And very often they will share more and more. And it’s kind of amazing because parents often feel like their kids, once they hit a certain age, will not share with them anymore. But if we’re not trying to shape their experience, they want to be heard, right? And as we build trust with them, they share more and more. So if I could suggest one single thing, which I think is what you, you were asking me to do, I would say try paraphrasing once as the first thing you do in a conversation and see what happens. And then if you can, keep on paraphrasing as they continue talking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:07]:
Now, you also talk about emotional safety and parent child relationships. What are some simple everyday ways fathers can do that?

Eran Magen [00:18:15]:
So I’ll continue a little bit from my previous answer and then I’ll give a couple of other things. The huge power of paraphrasing comes not just from having the child correct you yes or no, but we’re showing so much when we’re trying to check if we understand the child’s experience right. We’re showing that we want to know. We’re showing that we’re not judging and we’re not taking charge of the conversation. We’re letting the child lead. We’re showing that we’re curious about the child’s experience and validated. There’s just so much power there. And we do all this pretty Implicitly, through the process of paraphrasing.

Eran Magen [00:18:44]:
I think also doing it explicitly is very, very important. So a lot of us grew up not seeing examples of. Well, some of us just grew up without having people around us saying, I love you or I care about you or any of those things. And then we feel awkward saying them ourselves to other people. And likewise, maybe we never saw examples of people saying something like, your happiness is the most important thing for me, or I really care about how you feel, and I want to know what. What could make things better for you, in your opinion or any. Any of those things. And I think that the assumption of telepathy, or the hope of telepathy, silent relationship killer, including between parents and kids.

Eran Magen [00:19:22]:
Right? Because we know parents occasionally will say in anger, everything I do, I do for you. How could you possibly think that I don’t care? And usually when it’s done in anger, it happens because it’s. It’s too late into the process. And the kid really didn’t understand. The kid really didn’t see it. And being able to verbalize it earlier is so important. So I think getting into the habit of telling our kids, not in anger, but in great warmth and happiness to say, I’m so happy to see you happy. Let’s say something good happened.

Eran Magen [00:19:48]:
Our kid, you know, did something that our kid feels good about. And to say, this is awesome. I’m so glad to see you so happy. You know, I love seeing you happy like this. Like, just remembering to say these things rather than just say, good job, you know, punch in the shoulder, move on with our day. It’s so important to verbalize it. And when our kid is upset to say, I can see you’re upset, you know, and I really want to help you solve it. Or if our kid says, I really want to get into band at school.

Eran Magen [00:20:11]:
And then two days later, we realized that it would be a good idea for a kid to spend more time practicing the oboe or. Or whatever it is using to get into band. And to say, not just, I think you should be practicing your oboe. Like, if you want to get into band, I think you should just. But to lead with. I remember a couple days ago, we were talking about how much you want to get into band. And their kid goes, yeah. And we say, you know, I.

Eran Magen [00:20:31]:
I want to see you achieving your goals, right? I want to see you happy and doing things you want to do. And it looks like band is one of those things. And. And I was thinking about ways, you know, things you could do or we could do to help you get into band. Do you want to talk about this? Do you want to hear what I’m thinking? Right. But just being explicit about our goodwill toward our child, ridiculous as it sounds to many parents, is so important because the kids don’t know. How would they know this is their first time around. Right.

Eran Magen [00:20:54]:
We’re just. We’re expl. Expecting them to know all these things that they. They might not. And so being explicit about our goodwill toward our kids is enormously important. So that’s one thing. And the second thing I’ll say much more briefly is remembering to be present is number one, to be nice is number two, and to be respectful is number three. So being present, I talked about this already.

Eran Magen [00:21:13]:
Just actually having times when are dedicated to our kids and everything else on the side. Being nice. By being nice, I mean remembering to actually say thank you, remembering to praise, remembering to tell them how good we feel when we’re around them or we see that they did certain things. These are all so important and don’t happen often. And then number three, in terms of being respectful, I touched on this before. Treating them like we would treat people who are farther from us, like we would treat colleagues in terms of the level of respect. So not just kind of waving your hand at them when it’s time for them to leave or do a thing, but actually turning our body and looking at them and saying, why don’t you? Blah, blah, blah, or would you please? Or things like that, instead of shouting instructions from a distance, coming over and speaking with them and saying about the things that we want them to do. So being present, being kind, being respectful goes an extremely long way in just developing habits around that into our daily behavioral, relational repertoire.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:05]:
Now, I mentioned that you have another resource called divorcing dads.org and I know that you created that not only for yourself, but for others that are going, that went through or are going through divorce and what they can do to be able to not only stay connected to their child, but be advocates for their child, etcetera, etcetera. And I know that divorce can bring a sense of failure or shame. When I’ve talked to dads that have gone through this in the past, that’s definitely the case. What’s the first mindset shift that you encourage fathers to make when they go through a separation?

Eran Magen [00:22:39]:
I think the very first act to do when going through a separation is to connect with support. Like you said, a lot of people are blocked because they feel ashamed of what’s happening, whether or not they Feel it’s their fault. They feel like this is a shameful thing and not to discuss or they don’t want to talk about it with other people. It’s very common. I agree. But to connect with support is step one. Step one is not to eliminate the shame or remove the shame. That can take a long time.

Eran Magen [00:23:01]:
Connect with support anyway, right? Just going to deal with the shame. You don’t have to change it right away. We do want to change it later on. But step one, by far the most important thing, connect with support. Friends, family, people who care about you, counseling, faith leaders, you know, a hotline, whatever it is. But just connect with somebody. Start getting support. Don’t, you know, sit alone in your dark home despairing.

Eran Magen [00:23:23]:
That road leads to very bad places. Just immediately reach out and connect with support.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:27]:
Now I know that in looking at your site you’ve said that co parenting is more like being co workers than ex lovers. How can dads adopt a more businesslike approach to parenting with an ex without sacrificing empathy or communication?

Eran Magen [00:23:44]:
There are many flavors of co parenting, you know, depending on how the separation and divorce happen. I know co parents who used to be be romantic partners. They have a very good relationship and it’s very easy and fluid and supportive and friendly and that’s wonderful. And I think that’s ideal. And sometimes that doesn’t happen, right? Sometimes there’s neutral at best relationships or sometimes there’s a lot of bitterness and hostility and stress. And still things need to happen, right? Decisions need to happen about the kids. Logistics do need to be coordinated one, one way or another. So what I’m going to say now, I’m referring to these more high tension in or more conflict ridden relationships.

Eran Magen [00:24:19]:
Not the super friendly. If it’s super friendly then, then great, be super friendly. You don’t need to force collegial relationship on a friendship. If there’s a friendship there, that’s ideal, that’s wonderful. But if there isn’t, how do we still communicate? So tension will rise as conflict rises. Anything we can do to reduce conflict, I think is worth doing. And you know what, I’ll take another little detour here. There’s this, I think myth floating around that kids are hurt by divorce.

Eran Magen [00:24:40]:
The divorce is bad for kids. That’s not the case. What’s bad for kids is being exposed to parental conflict whether or not the parents are married or divorced. And you can see this easily in very bad relationships where people stay together. The kids have a very difficult time and will carry that difficult time for a long time and divorces that are friendly and cooperative and work well, the kids are doing fine later on, it’s so important to insulate the kids from parental conflict. So ideally reduce conflict and at any rate insulate the kids from the conflict. And so first principle is whatever we can do to reduce conflict, we should. And if we’re able to discuss it with the other parent in advance, things that we disagree on but can agree on, on solutions that work for everybody, great.

Eran Magen [00:25:18]:
If we can’t do it on our own, go to a mediator, work on that, go to a co parenting coach or counseling or something like that. These things exist and work and are well worth it in terms of treating the parent as a colleague. Create boundaries, Create boundaries that work for you and ideally work for the other parent as well. But certainly they have to work for you. Whatever makes you feel safe physically, emotionally, relationally is fair game. You can ask, please don’t contact me during these and these hours unless it’s an emergency or you can say, let’s limit our communication to email. Email, I’d rather not talk on phone or it’s too spontaneous or make up a reason or whatever you need. Right? But if it’s too activating for you to talk with the other parent or you get kind of sucked into conflict this way, then find communication methods that do work for you and respect the wishes of the other parent about this.

Eran Magen [00:26:02]:
Right. Because the goal is to reduce tension. There’s so much stuff that can easily activate either parent and so find ways to communicate that cause the least amount of activation for the other parent. And the other is like in a work setting, just have very clear delineation. Here are the to do on items. Here’s what you’re going to do. Here’s what I’m going to do. Is this correct? Just assume nothing, make it super, super clear what’s going to happen.

Eran Magen [00:26:26]:
And lastly, if the other parent is acting in ways that are upsetting to you or uncomfortable to you as you’re trying to do something for your child, just do your best to put aside, ignore the emotional layer of the communication. Focus on the logistical so you can do that. Just like if you had an annoying co worker and there was nothing you could do about it because you tried fixing it and the language didn’t change and you went to HR and they don’t care and they’re like, well, well they’re technically within the balance of whatever and so you can’t change their behavior. But focus on the actual specifics that need to happen in Order to make sure you’re taking care of your kid. And remember that this person is no longer your anything other than the parent of your children. Right. I think it’s a very helpful semantic switch to go from my ex to my kid’s mom because it’s actually true. That is the function of the person in your life right now.

Eran Magen [00:27:12]:
And I think it helps us remember also that this person is actually very important. Important. And we need to treat that person with the right level of respect and consideration because our kids need their mom. It’s like they need their dad. And it reminds us to just tread a little more lightly because we don’t want to actually hurt our kid’s mom or distance our kid’s mom. The kids need their mom. We just need to figure out how to coordinate.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
Some fathers worry about becoming less present or connected after a divorce. What can they do to maintain a strong bond with their kids, even if custody time is limited?

Eran Magen [00:27:45]:
Feminine There are a few things to do and I’ll say them in no particular order. One is work to have more time with the kids. It can happen through discussion and agreement or it can happen through legal action. But don’t give up on having more time with your kids. That’s really important because it’s very easy to perceive a societal message that says there’s no reason for you to have more time with your kids or of course they should be spending more time with their mom. It’s kind of a societal default at this point and you don’t have to accept the default default. And it’s okay for you to want to and act to have more time. So again, first and foremost, express your wishes clearly.

Eran Magen [00:28:19]:
And if your wishes can’t be met, if you’re not able to see them as much as you would like, consider pursuing them possibly through legal action. That’s a possibility. Consult with a lawyer and see what can happen. Or at least I mean start with mediation and then ideally go to non adversary legal representation, which is a whole thing that I wasn’t aware of before, where it’s a lawyer who, who signs an agreement with you in advance to never represent you in court. And so they’re incentivized to keep you out of court because if you go to court, you stop working with that lawyer. So the incentives become aligned through that kind of practice. So if you and your kid’s mom can get with a non adversarial practice, that’s a huge win. And if necessary, yes, go to court, of course.

Eran Magen [00:28:54]:
But step one, make your wishes known. Step two, argue and work to actualize your wishes. Having said this, in the meantime, what do you do in terms of connecting with your kids? One really important thing to remember is that, that it’s extremely hard for kids to become disconnected from their parents. There are many kids, I’m sure that all of us know, and maybe some of us have been, who see their dad once a week, twice a month, once a month, three times a year. And still as kids had this sense of like, this is my dad and it’s exciting, I’m going to go see my dad. Where, you know, as the dad in the story, you’re like, this is horrible. I’m never seeing my kids and I don’t know what’s going on with them. But the kids remain very connected to their parents.

Eran Magen [00:29:31]:
It takes a lot to disconnect, connect the kid from the parent. And so fear less, have less fear about your kids becoming estranged from you. Again, do what you can to have more time. But, but it’s unlikely your kids will stop thinking about you as their dad or as their parent and want to connect with you. So that’s, number one, just kind of reduce intensity internally. Number two, during the times that you do have together, be a hundred percent present, especially if you don’t have a lot of time together, 100% present, zero distractions, block everything off. It’s, it’s amazing what the impact of this kind of quality time is. And if you look around at friends who have access to their kids all the time, you may discover that they have a lot less quality time with their kids than you do because they’re not as focused, they kind of take it for granted.

Eran Magen [00:30:12]:
And you can build an amazing relationship off of a handful of times a week for a relatively short amount of time. If you’re 100% focused and present on the relationship, you don’t need to do crazy stuff. You don’t need to constantly bombard them with gifts. You do not need to play catch up with the things that they do with the other parent or compete on gifts and excitingness and whatnot. Just focus on being the best father you can be while you’re with them. It’ll take you such a long way and they will stay connected to you. Just be present, Just use that time that you have well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
You also provide scripts and guidance for difficult conversations. What’s a good way for a dad to explain the divorce to his child in an age appropriate, supportive way?

Eran Magen [00:30:57]:
So back to first principles. It’s really important to insulate kids from parental conflict. Exposing Kids to parental conflict and parental animosity is just very bad for the kids. The kids are strongly connected to both parents. They can’t help it. Asking them to acknowledge that you’re upset or hurt or, you know, what have you, it is tearing them apart. It’s just so damaging. And so leaving that part out, I think is very important.

Eran Magen [00:31:23]:
Maybe that’s something you talk about with them when they’re 30. It’ll still hurt when they’re 30, but by then they will have figured some of it out. But leave out the hurt and the nastiness. And I would say talk in terms of friendship. Talk in terms of, we were such good friends for a long time, you know, and we lived together and we had you and we had your sister, and we were so happy in doing this. And at some point, and then whatever the actual story is, I think it’s fair to say maybe it was your decision, maybe it was Mom’s decision, maybe it was a mutual decision. But you could say, like, you know, at some point we realized that we don’t want to live together anymore. We want to live separately.

Eran Magen [00:31:53]:
And we, of course, continue to be our parents. And that’s a point to keep emphasizing. Right? We both love you so much, and you. You are so important to us. But we didn’t want to continue living together. We decided to go more or less our separate ways, but to continue to be your parents and make sure that we’re taking care of you and all of this and kind of present it fairly lightly. I wouldn’t say nonchalantly. It’s not like, I mean, unless that’s the model of relationships you want your kid to have in their head, if that’s how you’re thinking about it.

Eran Magen [00:32:18]:
But for me, personally, I don’t want to present it as, oh, yeah, you know, we were super committed to each other and lived together and then decided not to. And, you know, we’ll see what happens, happens next. Like, it’s a big thing. Maybe it’s a big, important decision, and it’s okay to say it was. It was sad for us or it was hard to figure out how to continue from there. But, you know, we knew all the time that the most important thing is to take care of you, blah, blah, blah. And I think that about covers it. So just kind of sanitize it a little bit in terms of conflict.

Eran Magen [00:32:41]:
Sanitize the conflict out of it. Explain that you reached a decision that was ultimately mutual. Right. Even if, let’s say it was. It was Mom’s idea And you really didn’t like it. Eventually you agreed to the separation, obviously. Right. You’re not camping out under mom’s bed against her wishes.

Eran Magen [00:32:55]:
Like you agreed at some point that this needs to happen. Sanitize the conflict. Emphasize that was a mutual decision. Emphasize repeatedly that you are committed to your kids, that they’re important to you, that you love them, that you want to do the right thing for them always. And that’s about it. You don’t need to dwell on it an enormous amount. Kids, especially when they’re younger, up until, I don’t know, maybe nine or so, are so amazingly self centered. They don’t dwell too much on like your experience of things.

Eran Magen [00:33:20]:
It doesn’t really matter to them. They just need a story that makes sense to them, to them. And I think that version of the story is reasonable that you tell them later on as they get older. If they want more detail, maybe you can share. But I would encourage everybody to not disparage the other parent ever again and not start kind of hearing the kid in both directions or say things that are can be upsetting about the other parent. And if you hit a point where the kid asks a question, which they will at some point about the other parents motivation or about the other parent’s thinking or about why would the parent do this thing? The answer is, you know, I really don’t totally understand it myself, but I respect your mom’s wishes or you know, her choices. And I don’t have a better answer that sometimes people do things that we don’t understand completely, but they still get to make the choices that they make and leave it at that. If the kid wants to go talk to the other parent about it, fine.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]:
We always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection six where six more questions to delve into you a little bit deeper as a dad. Are you ready?

Eran Magen [00:34:16]:
I am ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:17]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your son?

Eran Magen [00:34:20]:
Joyful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:20]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Eran Magen [00:34:24]:
I’ll give you a twofer actually. As I was going through the separation process and I was very worried about my son becoming essentially estranged from me because I didn’t see him a lot the first few years and a friend taught me to ask two questions whenever I start kind of spinning out. One is how’s my son doing? And the other is how’s my connection with my son? And as long as the answer is good and good, then there’s nothing to worry about. Sure. I might want to See him more. Sure, I might worry about what will happen in the future, but right now, he’s well, he’s taken care of. He’s fine. And my connection with him is great.

Eran Magen [00:34:50]:
And so the problem is more in my head than in the world. So learning to ask these two questions, specifically, going through a divorce or separation, how’s my son doing? How’s my connection with my son?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:59]:
What’s one activity you and your son love doing together?

Eran Magen [00:35:02]:
There’s so many. I’m gonna have to go with wrestling. I’ve been doing jiu jitsu for many years now, and I love it. And I’m very careful not to sort of impose it on my son, but I would say at least every other day, he’ll sort of tackle me to the ground and then start climbing on me and kind of shriek and enjoy himself. And it’s just super fun. It’s so physical. It’s not violent. Like, we’re very gentle with each other.

Eran Magen [00:35:21]:
There’s so much physical contact that happens that’s really fun. Sometimes it’ll stop and ask a technical question, and then I feel good about being able to explain something, but it’s. We’re just messing around most of the time, so just kind of rolling around on the carpet or the beanbag. It’s just super fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]:
If you could give your son one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Eran Magen [00:35:38]:
I think about this a lot. One life lesson, one advice for life that I would give my son. Son feels so momentous. A message that I often convey to him is, you can learn anything. You can become great at anything if you’re willing to put in the work.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]:
Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their kids?

Eran Magen [00:36:02]:
Have focused, present fun with your kids, starting now, and never stop. It’s not a later thing. Just right now, start having the relationship you want to have all the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:11]:
Well, Aran, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey as a father, but also the resources that you have created. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Eran Magen [00:36:22]:
Well, first of all, thank you for your very thoughtful questions and responses. I really appreciate it. Like, it’s clear that you’re so connected and interested and thoughtful about it. It’s really. It’s such a pleasure to get to think about my own parenting this way to learn about me. I. Yeah, the two places would be either parenting for humans.com that you mentioned or divorcing dads.com that you mentioned then I’m very easy to find and contact through these places.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]:
Well, again, Aran, thank you. Thank you for being here today and for sharing this and I wish you all the best.

Eran Magen [00:36:53]:
Likewise. Thank you so much.