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Presence Over Perfection: Creating Meaningful Dad-Daughter Connections

October 5, 2026 by dadofdivas

Building a strong, meaningful relationship with your daughter takes intention, patience, and a genuine commitment to growth—for both parent and child. That’s the heartbeat of “The Dad and Daughter Connection,” a podcast devoted to helping dads nurture confidence and independence in their daughters. In the latest episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with returning guest Arpan Shah to discuss what it really takes to create lasting, positive connections, even in challenging circumstances.

One of the episode’s central themes is being truly present. Arpan Shah opens up about his journey as a dad navigating dual custody, and how—even when parenting comes with logistical and emotional hurdles—intentionally showing up matters more than perfection. He shares the powerful impact of simple, everyday rituals: from regular FaceTime check-ins and nighttime meditation to asking thoughtful questions like, “How did you help someone today?” or “What new thing did you learn?”

Another key takeaway is the importance of leading by example. Children learn more from their parents’ behaviors than their words. Arpan Shah explains how volunteering at school, coaching basketball, and making time for shared hobbies like hiking and music aren’t just fun—they show his daughter that she is valued and supported, while modeling lifelong curiosity and resilience.

Honesty and forgiveness are woven throughout the conversation. Both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Arpan Shah talk about the inevitable mistakes that come with parenting. The real magic, they suggest, happens when we use those moments to communicate openly, learn together, and even let our daughters teach us a thing or two about empathy.

The episode is full of practical advice for fathers who want to build a deep, trusting relationship with their daughters, such as:

Prioritizing quality time over material things or work distractions
Supporting your child’s interests—from robotics and coding to sports and music
Establishing meaningful routines and traditions
Creating space for honest, two-way conversations—even when they’re tough
Focusing on presence instead of perfection

If you’re looking for real stories and actionable insights to help you on your fatherhood journey, this podcast is for you. Tune in for inspiration, support, and a reminder that your heart already knows the way—sometimes, you just need to be still, listen, and be present.

Subscribe today and start strengthening your bond. Listen to the latest episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” now!

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to Work together on these relationships that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]:
And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for coming back every week, for you putting yourself out there, for wanting to continue to keep learning, to keep growing, and to keep being present for your daughters. Because that’s what it’s all about. Each one of us has to put in the work, put in the time to be able to do what we can to be able to help our daughters grow into the women that they’re becoming. But also, we need to put in the time for ourselves to be able to be the fathers that we want to be. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists because I want to provide you with resources that are going to help you, give you some tools for your toolbox that’ll help you to be that dad that you want to be. As you know, I’ve got 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:44]:
I know you’ve got daughters. And I love being able to allow for you every week to learn something new from new people that can provide you with some of the experiences that they’ve had. in their life. Because every one of us as fathers is going to father in a different way. But we can learn from each other and take little pieces here and there to be able to help us be even better dads in the future. That’s why every week I bring you a different guest, a different person with different experiences. And this week we’ve got another great guest. Arpan Shah is with us today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]:
And Arpan is a, actually a past guest of another podcast that I used to do called Dads with Daughters. And I was really excited to be able to ask him to come back to join us and to, and to have us have him back on to talk with us about his own journey as a father. And I’m really excited to introduce him to you. Arpan, thanks so much for being here today.

Arpan Shah [00:02:38]:
Thanks for having me, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:39]:
I’m really excited to be able to have you here today and for you to share some of the experiences that you’ve had. I always start these interviews with an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you as a dad and talk about you and the relationship with your daughter. I guess first and foremost, as you think about the relationship that you have with your daughter, I know she’s 9. So as you think back to that relationship that you have with her, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share together with your daughter? And what made it so special?

Arpan Shah [00:03:07]:
I think the special moments is now that she’s 9. My last podcast was when she was about 4 or 5. And I was in the midst of a really bad custody battle. And so I was going through all kinds of emotions that many fathers go through in the treacherous waters of family court. And so what has changed And what’s meaningful now is those little random hugs and bursts of, I love you, for no absolute reason, where you can see the unconditional love just pouring out of each other’s eyes and souls when you embrace your child. And knowing that you’re doing a good job, knowing that she’s smart, she’s got a good heart, and that she is a kind person, and she helps me out as well. And those are some of the most meaningful little milestones. Just if we can have that connection as the child grows and blooms, to nurture that and to have a hand in that is extremely humbling.

Arpan Shah [00:03:57]:
And something to be very grateful for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:58]:
As you think about what you just said, each one of us is trying to do things to intentionally build those moments and be able to have those opportunities to be able to connect with our daughters. What are some intentional ways that you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times?

Arpan Shah [00:04:16]:
Well, recently, as she’s gotten older, this is much different, as I have not pondered these questions you’ve asked for some time now, is There is a struggle when she goes from home to home. Our parenting schedule is such where she is 7 days with me with a break in the middle where there’s a date night with the other parent and with her mother. And then on 7 days with her mom, I have a date night in the middle of the week as well. So during those times, there are FaceTime calls every day. And then we do a check-in. We meditate or pray every night before going to sleep. And the way I started that was a count to 10, just a breathing to 10 where you clear your mind for those 10 seconds. And I kind of assist her in doing so.

Arpan Shah [00:04:59]:
So, and we’ll take deep breaths, we’ll hold them, we’ll let them out, and we’ll try to clear ourselves of all our thoughts and whatever might be on our minds. We just clear it. And it’s just me and her, her voice and mine. And then we find peace. And then we touch base every day where that grows. I can get into that a little further, but I think that’s something that everybody should do is just unwind with your child and debrief. How was your day today? What were some of your best moments of the day? How have you helped somebody today? What did you learn today? Those kind of questions are very important to ask. And then getting a habit of that, it keeps it in your mind throughout the day.

Arpan Shah [00:05:35]:
It helps you have a more positive impact as a parent. And then the child ponders those questions a lot more than you might think. Children learn more from behaviors than what you tell them to do. So it’s important for you to exhibit that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]:
And following up with that, you talked a little bit about the fact that getting her back onto a routine and moving from routine to routine, and some fathers like yourself have a similar type of a family dynamic that has to happen based on time with mom, time with dad, you know, whatever the situation is. And you said that you’ve tried some different things that have worked, maybe some things that didn’t work. For other fathers that are in dual custody type of situations like that, what’s some advice that you would give them to be able to help the child to be able to maneuver from environment to environment?

Arpan Shah [00:06:21]:
There’s a couple of things that we can do to help the transitions. The most important being Don’t badmouth the other parent when the child is around. That’s very important. You want to love the child more than you might have some grievances with the other parent because that child is half you and half the other. And so it’s important to know that if the child hears that, it’s heartbreaking because the child is part of both and it’s confusing as well. So it’s important not to do that. On the contrary, if you are fortunate enough to have a good relationship, it’s important to maybe just watch the child interact— you both interact politely. respectfully with each other.

Arpan Shah [00:06:57]:
And then maybe do an exchange at a playground where you’re both present for a little while, things like that. In the beginning, attorneys can really make things complicated. So I would have imaginary phone calls with the other parent to show that, hey, you know, we’re laughing, we’re good. And it felt— made her feel really good growing up. I think it’s important for dads to be present, not be on your phone. And you know what, work may come in the future, spend time with your child. When you’re older, you’re not going to look back and wish that you had worked the extra hour to get that overtime pay or whatever it is. If you’re in that situation.

Arpan Shah [00:07:28]:
I know it’s easier for some than others. But I have turned down opportunities, and even relationships and commitments to spend time. And I’ve never regretted that. As far as spending time goes, it’s like, what do I do? I mean, if you look in the marketplace, or the— or even TV shows, it’s changing slowly. But usually, historically, it’s frustrating to me that the dad is more of a sort of like a bumbling idiot, if you will, in these TV shows like Al Bundy and Homer Simpson, and etc., etc. So it’s important for you to find those positive figures or exhibit that yourself. Doing things, learning something together, taking a cooking class with the child, putting together one of those crafts like a mechanical toy or Lego set, building it together. Those things you’re creating together with your creation.

Arpan Shah [00:08:14]:
And that’s one of the reasons I wrote Daddy Goes to Work, my book, because it’s a book that I was looking for when she was young. Because she’ll grab your leg and be like, Dad, where are you going? Dada, no! And then she’ll whine. And you have a schedule, you have to be at work, and the kid has no idea where you’ve abandoned her for 8, 9, 10 hours. So in a good connection with one’s father, especially girls, it’s important for their sense of joy and self-confidence later in life. And more and more research and science is showing this and proving that to be true. A father’s love is no less, especially with a girl, although it’s also prevalent with males too. So anyways, Daddy Goes to Work is what I wrote, and I’m glad I did. Every child that reads it has a better connection and makes the world a better place, in my opinion, one kid at a time.

Arpan Shah [00:09:00]:
It’s a story of a father that goes to work and explains to a young child— it’s more for kids under 7— what happens in the day and how much the father loves her, and that he’ll always come back. And that message is very important, and it’s nonexistent until now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:13]:
You know, and we talk a lot more about that book in the first interview that I mentioned. I’ll put a link in the notes today so you can learn more about the book and kind of the impetus behind that to be able to learn a little bit more. One of the questions that I have, and it goes back to kind of what you were talking about in regard to The work that we all do, many of us are working full-time. We’re trying our best to provide for our families. We’re wearing a lot of hats as we are being fathers, and we have to try to balance all of those different things. Talk to me about how you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the ability and the independence to grow into the person that she’s becoming.

Arpan Shah [00:09:49]:
So I incorporate her with my day. I will take vacation days like many, but instead of sitting around or going on a guys trip, I’ll volunteer at her school. I’m involved. I’m her basketball coach for the 3rd graders last year. As a children’s book author, I’ll do author readings in the school. I’ll help any way I can. So I make myself known. And I’ve always noticed when I was a kid and other parents would volunteer, I always thought it was so cool.

Arpan Shah [00:10:12]:
I thought it was so special. And I could see it in her eyes and heart, how joy she gets seeing me in her classroom. She’s like, whoa, what are you doing here? And then now people have gotten to know me as Mr. Shah. Like, she thinks I work there. So that’s really special. So I’m very involved. And I encourage every father to do that.

Arpan Shah [00:10:29]:
Show up at their appointments, dentist, doctor. It’s important for you to be there. These norms are changing. And especially in the future with AI and stuff, I think fathers are more involved now than ever in the last century, at least, and volunteering, doing activities together, and just being present. Or, and if you can’t, debriefing with her, asking her specific questions on her day. Because young children can be very vague. It’s like, yeah, it was good. It was fine.

Arpan Shah [00:10:53]:
What’d you do? Nothing. You know, like, well, did you play with any friends? And back to those questions that I mentioned earlier, have— how did you help somebody today? What’s something new that you learned today? What is something that you need to work on? How can I help you? What was your favorite part of your day with me if you had spent the day? So those are all very— make things more meaningful. And then when you go putting action to your thoughts, you’ll be surprised how your soul will carry you forward in this relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]:
Now, none of us are infallible. We’re human. We make mistakes. And I guess as you think about yourself as a father in working with your daughter, what’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father And what did you learn from it about fostering better communication with your own daughter?

Arpan Shah [00:11:35]:
Well, I learned something new every day. I just never stopped looking for ways to improve. This is a very common thing. The way my custody battle started, it was my child was removed from the state and we kind of saw it coming and she was held without contact for an extended period. So I think that’s why I’m so intense and present in her life right now, because I was so connected to her. I’m the oldest out of like 9 cousins and we were raised very close together. Like I was in Chicago. They’re in Indiana, and we would visit every weekend.

Arpan Shah [00:12:03]:
So they were like siblings, but I was the oldest. And my best friend in the family has always been the youngest one. Like I said, I’m a big kid. I love goofing around. And I missed that. But I won that pretty quickly. But it was very difficult, very traumatic. And that kind of helped me be extremely present.

Arpan Shah [00:12:18]:
I did some positive parenting classes that were free I found online, just voluntarily. I talked to other dads. I went to some parent mentoring stuff. And I’m just always trying to be a better dad or make other fathers better. I currently help freelance as a divorce coach and a parenting guide for fathers and some mothers too. I’ve helped a lot of people out, so I learned from their experiences. I learned from mine. I’m trying to think.

Arpan Shah [00:12:40]:
We’re human, like you said, so you can get angry sometimes, or you want to make sure that you’re always communicating so that you can grow together. In relationships, you learn when you fall and from when you rise. So you want to make sure you’re there to carry her up, and then you want to empower your child to lift you up when she notices things and to have honest conversations with— because you are not a god.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:00]:
One other question, which is really going to some of the things that you do, because you’re already talking about things that you’re doing to be able to show up for your daughter. What do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Arpan Shah [00:13:12]:
I’m always present. I think presence is what’s important for fathers more than ever. I’m there before she’s awake. I’m there to put her down. When I’m picking her up at school, I’m, I’m on time. I’m there taking her to activities and not just leaving, checking out at the playground. I’m not just leaving her at the playground sitting on the bench on my phone. I’m interacting.

Arpan Shah [00:13:29]:
You know, while I still can, while I have a good back. And it’s the engaging, it’s the wanting to be there, it’s the presence. And I think as long as you’re present, the love that you have for your child will tell you where to go next.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:40]:
And before we started the show today, one of the things that you told me was the story of the conversation that you had with your daughter about teasing. I want you to tell that story because I think that really connects with this question as well.

Arpan Shah [00:13:53]:
I can be immature sometimes, and then we tease each other, but I got to realize that one time she was joking around with me, and then I can’t remember I don’t remember exactly the situation. It was some time ago, but I do remember what she said afterwards. She sat me down like she was my mom and she’s like, hey, if you treat somebody and do blah, blah, blah to them, how would that make you feel? And then I was like, ah, man, I wouldn’t feel very good at all. And she’s like, well, that’s how I feel. And I was just like, oh my God. I apologized. It was just so sweet to see her put me in my place and the maturity. I was just so proud of her.

Arpan Shah [00:14:27]:
Even when she was 3, she had those kind of tendencies. One time we had people over, me and my wife, and And then it was about 9 PM. So what she did— and we had music playing, we had some food on the dining table, and people were kind of scattered throughout the condo. And then she walks up out of her room, turns the music off, slams her door before she says, I’m going to sleep, everybody be quiet. And then the mic just dropped and everybody was like, oh my God, that was so beautiful. It was so awesome. And then, I mean, eventually, you know, people got quiet and they were trailing out anyways. There were other children there.

Arpan Shah [00:15:00]:
So I just thought that was really cool. She’s like 9 going on 90.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:04]:
So, you know, every one of us as fathers also try to support our daughter’s dreams and passions. How are you supporting your daughter’s dreams and passions?

Arpan Shah [00:15:14]:
I’ve exposed her in her earlier years to so many different activities. We’ve tried all kinds of sports. She did love basketball. I didn’t think she would because probably that I was one of the coaches there. So I’m really proud of that. And we play every chance we get. And when we find a park, I keep a ball in my car. Something else is she’s really taken a liking to building and programming and coding.

Arpan Shah [00:15:36]:
Like engineering, whether it be Legos or Roblox, Minecraft. I’m not a big fan of Roblox, but there’s also editing videos and sounds. I play several instruments myself, so that way she’s become somewhat of an audiophile. She has an appreciation for good music and the technology that’s behind it. Her school is a performing arts and fine arts magnet, so they do have a music technology class that they start at a young age, which I thought was cool. I didn’t have that when I was young. I had a recorder, but I found a place called iCode. Where they did like a YouTube Creator Week where you modify sound waves and add text to video and make, make like video editing basically.

Arpan Shah [00:16:15]:
And she just loved it. After school, she pulled up my laptop, downloaded some app, and started finding stock videos and footage, adding text, and then finding music clips, uploading them, and doing that. And she’s just turned 9, and I can’t even do some of this stuff. So I was very impressed, and I felt grateful that, hey, I put in this effort. I got her into this camp over the summer instead of something else or just sitting at home. And she’s learned something new that she’s passionate about. The way I found it was a trial class in robotics where you kind of code a robot to like make a left turn, go straight, because, you know, the future is AI. So we gotta— I don’t know what the future holds, but I do know that you can’t go wrong with this stuff for now at least.

Arpan Shah [00:16:54]:
And it’s good to have a background in it. So I’m looking forward to seeing if I can get her into something else like our Battle of the Bots. That’s the— that’s something coming up in August, which is a week-long course about programming a robot. The other student programs one. And then you fight and then you see who wins and you learn something and you have a fun time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]:
And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Arpan Shah [00:17:13]:
When she confesses something to me or says something serious, she knows that I have her back. Like if there’s some bullying happening or if she gets in trouble, there’s one way to discipline. And then, but in private, you want to give the advice and know that you’re on her side, that you are supported, that she is not alone. Even though there are going to be consequences for her behaviors and actions, you have to explain that to her. You can’t just be like, you’re going timeout, or Like, you know, I’m taking your tablet away for a week or whatever else you do to discipline your child. You want to explain that this was you, this is your choice. You can choose to do this or you can choose to do that. You have to give them the power.

Arpan Shah [00:17:50]:
And then once you give them the choice and they make the wrong choice, they’ll understand that there are specific consequences to making those choices in their little minds. And that’s how they’re gonna learn it. If you just yell at them, they’re just gonna learn to resist slightly and outsmart. But, and kids are smart, so you have to be on top of it and you have to be present and you have to be involved in everything we’ve set up to this point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:10]:
And what’s a tradition or routine that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Arpan Shah [00:18:15]:
It would have to be the evening meditation. And we did jiu-jitsu for 5 years. You know, we need to empower our girls, especially if they’re not bullies. If they are, then don’t empower them. But now she’s recently taken a liking to boxing. She loves it. Actually, as a bachelor, I might— I’m actually shopping for a 40-pound punching bag to put in my living room. Between my living room and dining room.

Arpan Shah [00:18:37]:
So I’m really happy that she loves it so much. And it’s something good, something fitness-oriented. I go to the gym, I make sure I bring her with me. Gyms have daycares with toys and fun stuff. So it’s important, like I said earlier, kids learn more from behaviors. You can tell a kid that it’s important to work out and eat healthy, or you can demonstrate that. And then she enjoys doing push-ups, mountain climbers, bear crawls, and all kinds of stuff just by watching me. And then you break a sweat, you come into the break room or the childcare area sweating, and you’re like, hey, just checking in on you.

Arpan Shah [00:19:07]:
How are you doing? You having fun, great. And then you go back. And I think those are really important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:11]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Arpan Shah [00:19:18]:
I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:18]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Arpan Shah [00:19:22]:
Blissful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:22]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Arpan Shah [00:19:27]:
Always be honest with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:28]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Arpan Shah [00:19:32]:
Hiking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:32]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Arpan Shah [00:19:36]:
Pain is mandatory. Suffering is optional.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:38]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Arpan Shah [00:19:41]:
Resilience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Arpan Shah [00:19:50]:
Your heart already knows what to do. Cut out your programming that you might have had from your parents and the parents before and be present with an open heart and mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:58]:
Well, Arpan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today, for sharing what you shared. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Arpan Shah [00:20:06]:
Well, they can Google Arpan V. Shah, A-R-P-A-N, and my book is Daddy Goes to Work. You can also find me on Facebook as A.V. Shah. It’s just capital letters, A.V. together, space, Shah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]:
Well, again, Arpan, thanks so much for being here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you again, and I wish you all the best.

Arpan Shah [00:20:24]:
Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity. It’s been a long time. Always a pleasure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:28]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:58]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by so fast. I’m gonna go get some sleep. Time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Outro Performer [00:21:51]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Building Stronger Bonds: Matt Haviland and his Daughter Olivia’s Father-Daughter Journey

September 21, 2026 by dadofdivas

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At the heart of The Dad and Daughter Connection, featured in this week’s episode, is the steadfast belief that the strongest father-daughter relationships are built one intentional moment at a time. In a conversation brimming with honesty and warmth, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Matt Haviland and his 20-year-old daughter, Olivia Haviland, to explore what it truly means to connect, support, and empower our daughters to become confident, independent women.

Listening With Intent

One of the most powerful themes from this episode is the importance of truly listening. Olivia Haviland reflects on her high school years, sharing how her dad’s willingness to listen without judgment made her feel seen and valued. Rather than resorting to harsh discipline, Matt Haviland chose to open a dialogue, striving to understand Olivia’s perspective and guide rather than simply correct. This practice, inspired by a national survey in which teens wished their dads would “listen more,” is a reminder for all fathers: be present, and let your daughter’s voice be heard.

Meaningful Moments Big and Small

Connection isn’t always about the grand gestures. Matt Haviland and Olivia share memories ranging from epic squirt gun battles to heartfelt college essays, and even “loud and obnoxious” declarations of love at McDonald’s. Whether it’s a shared joke, a drive together, or simply showing up at a dance recital, these moments accumulate into a reservoir of trust and comfort. As Olivia Haviland puts it, time spent together outweighs any material gift.

Guidance and Independence

Balancing guidance with independence is a recurring theme. Matt Haviland, a former single dad, emphasizes being intentional with the time he shared with Olivia, supporting her dreams while encouraging self-reflection and growth. For Olivia, this support translated into confidence in her career and life decisions—bolstered by her dad’s encouragement to think long-term and his faith-based guidance.

Real Advice for Real Dads

This episode wraps with practical wisdom: prioritize time with your kids, apologize for your mistakes, and let your actions reflect your family values. Both Matt Haviland and Olivia Haviland urge dads everywhere to listen deeply and value presence over presents.

Ready to strengthen your bond with your daughter? Listen to this heartfelt episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection and discover how every day can be an opportunity to connect, grow, and become the dad she needs.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together to build those connections that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. You know, I love it that you come back every week because that shows a lot about who you want to be as a father, but also who you want to be and what type of relationship you want to have, relationship that you want to have with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:
And it takes time, it takes effort, and it takes work. And we have to keep showing up. And it is so important for us to be able to put the work in for ourselves, but also put in the work with our daughters to be able to have that solid relationship that we wanna have. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that allow for you to be able to learn, to grow, to get some tools for your toolbox, and to be able to take those and use them for the future. So I am really excited today to have a, I’m gonna say a return guest. It’s not really a return guest on this show, but Matt Haviland, is with us. And Matt and his daughter are with us today, his daughter Olivia.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]:
And Matt is a past guest of a past podcast that I did called Dads with Daughters about 4 years ago. And I’m really excited to be able to have Matt on, but also this time his daughter Olivia, to be able to talk about the relationship that they’ve been able to build together and also what they’ve learned along the way to share that with you. Matt, Olivia, thanks so much for being here today.

Matt Haviland [00:02:26]:
Yeah, Chris, thanks again for having me back. And this is a really It’s a really special moment to have Olivia with me today. So say hi.

Olivia Haviland [00:02:33]:
Hi.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:
I’m really excited to have you both here. And I want to go back a little bit because I know, Olivia, you’re 20. You know, you’re an adult now. You’re doing the life thing. You’re doing the work thing. You’re out there. And as you think back to the relationship that you’ve been able to build with your dad, what’s one thing that your dad did for you that helped you and made you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Olivia Haviland [00:03:02]:
Um, I would say in high school, I was struggling a lot with my mental health. And then I was getting myself into a little bit of trouble. And he didn’t ground me. Well, there was like boundaries where he grounded me a little bit, but he was more open to like listening as of like why I did the things that I did, instead of just like not hearing me out and just screaming at me, taking my phone, not letting me hang out with my friends and everything. So that meant a lot to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:32]:
And Matt, I guess, take me back to that point for you, because I know you had your own journey as a youth and went through your own stuff. And we talked about, we talked about a lot of that in the first interview that we did. So talk to me about that for you and hearing that from Olivia and how you had to be able to kind of take what you learned to be able to help her?

Matt Haviland [00:03:57]:
Yeah, I was very grateful for a lot of the experiences that I had, not only personally but also professionally or through mentorship as well. I guess where I can go with that, Chris, is Olivia was born when I was 30 years old, so I wasn’t super young. So by the time she’s in high school, you know, I’m in my mid-40s. I would like to say I’ve learned a few things over those 14 or 15 years of parenting her, but I also Just like a lot of people, either parents or— I, I work with fathers also in a professional setting. You know, we learn a lot from our own previous experiences. So the things my own parents did or did not do, so learning how to correct that and apply that as much as possible. Plus working in a fatherhood field for so long, I’ve obviously picked up tips, either again things that I’ve taught guys or other men have taught me as well. But it really becomes a lot different instead of me just telling a dad what to do when I actually have to live this out.

Matt Haviland [00:04:54]:
But I think I could attribute a lot of it to— I was at a conference many years ago, probably 2010, 2012, and they revealed a survey result, a national survey, and they said all these teen kids wish their dad would fill in the blank. And the number one answer was listen more. And that was something that, just like Olivia just said, instead of flying off the handle, telling her how much trouble she’s in, let me hear her out first.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:18]:
Yeah.

Matt Haviland [00:05:19]:
And then we can go from there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:20]:
Now I know that a lot of times, Matt, we as fathers are trying to build those moments, those meaningful moments that connect us with our kids. And what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with Olivia and what made it so special?

Matt Haviland [00:05:35]:
Okay, she said the water fight, so clearly that must have been one. It was April Fool’s Day, probably about 4 or 5 years ago. She pranked me in the house and that turned out to a full-blown squirt gun war in the house, actually Super Soakers in the house.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:49]:
Well, I pranked him once and then he forgot to take the tape off the faucet and pranked himself again.

Matt Haviland [00:05:55]:
Yeah, she did the old, you know, she tied the rubber band around the sprayer on the kitchen sink. So when I turned on the kitchen sink faucet, it hit me, and then I shut it off and hit myself again. And yes, that is a very— we’re gonna remember that forever, having a squirt gun fight in the house. Not recommended. My wife had something to say about it when she got home, but it was very meaningful. Another really meaningful moment on a more emotional level was a couple years ago, Olivia wrote a paper for college, and they were to choose somebody that’s inspired them inspired them, and she wrote the paper about me. And it starts out with the words, I am who I am today because of my dad. And I don’t think, Christopher, I don’t think there’s any greater words that a parent can hear than something like that.

Matt Haviland [00:06:34]:
And she went on to say a lot of like what she just said about me being there and communicating with her mom and just so many other things. So that was a special moment. The fact that of all the times I’ve screwed up as a dad over, at that point, over 18 years, and then just to receive the gift like that that says, no, Dad, you did a lot of screwing up, but you did it right as well. And Really, that meant so much. To this day, there’s no greater gift I’ve ever been given than that paper.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]:
And Olivia, what are some things that you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship?

Olivia Haviland [00:07:05]:
I don’t know. I can’t really think of much because from our situation of like me growing up, it was really hard to make time to see me and everything, but he was doing all that he could. From what I noticed, I would just say maybe less of the dad jokes for sure. On a serious note, I can only flash back to when I was little and I wish he learned to cook more things rather than turkey burger and rice and sometimes mac and cheese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:34]:
That’s fair.

Matt Haviland [00:07:35]:
I was a bachelor for 29 years. Okay, so but just for your audience though, to just kind of backtrack our story, I was a single dad, Olivia’s mom and I never married. So I was a single father for the first 9 years of her life too. So just trying to navigate what that was like raising a child in 2 different homes.

Olivia Haviland [00:07:52]:
Because rules would would be different at my mom’s and then rules would be different here. I would say like not anything that he could do different, but like something I take back is like when we would get in arguments, I would like not talk to him for the rest of the night. But like, he— I’m thankful that you respected my space, but I kind of wish you would have like pushed me a little bit to like talk more. But other than that, I can’t really think of anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]:
Now, Matt, all of us are trying to help our daughters to be able to become the people that they’re becoming. Talk to me about how you you balanced guiding Olivia while also giving her the independence to grow into the person that she has become?

Matt Haviland [00:08:31]:
Yeah, speaking from personal experience, so being a single father— and I’ve often defined single dads especially as it could be a man who has full custody, maybe it’s split custody, maybe it’s minimal custody— I would be what was defined as a non-custodial parent, meaning I had less than 50% of the parenting time. Because of that, I was really intentional about the time I had with her. But I think that’s just a good lesson for any parent, is to be intentional intentional. I have the privilege of working with new first-time fathers in some of the work that I do, and I’ll talk to them about making time for their kids. You know, there’s a great quote that says, you’ll never have the time for your kids, you have to make time. There’s no other way. And really putting that into practice, um, you know, you go to parks— and this isn’t to shame anybody listening, but it’s a good reminder— and you’ll see all the parents looking down at their phones while the kids are playing. And it’s about getting engaged in their life.

Matt Haviland [00:09:24]:
And I think for having Olivia, because I didn’t have her all the time. I did not want to take her time— the time with her for granted. But any— even for parents that are raising their kids together in the same household, I mean, the reminder still goes that there’s no greater gift that we can give our kids than our time. And being present isn’t just being in the same room, it’s being, you know, mentally and emotionally present. And I know there’s probably a lot of people that have heard that before, but I think it’s true. I mean, just to be there, to be involved with raising kids— yes, you’re going to have the serious moments, But then also, it’s just kind of spending time together. Maybe it’s going for a walk, and maybe at first it’s a goofy conversation, or, or it’s, uh, it gets more serious. When I had Olivia, the average drive home to her mom was about 15 or 20 minutes each way.

Matt Haviland [00:10:09]:
So every time I picked her up, I mean, that’s 20 minutes of car time that we can kind of talk a little bit. So I think it was not just anything one specific, but it was just that continual over and over and over for 18 years of trying to be as intentional as I can, listening to her, correcting mistakes when I, I can, and then Everybody will say it, she is a carbon copy of me. She is literally— I mean, she’s cuter than me, but just, I mean, personality-wise, she is a carbon copy.

Olivia Haviland [00:10:36]:
We stand the same.

Matt Haviland [00:10:37]:
Yeah, our mannerisms are all the same. But really understanding that too, that I’m looking in a mirror here. So when I am raising her, disciplining her, engaging with her, how would I react to that as well?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:49]:
And speaking to that, Olivia, how has your relationship with your dad influenced the way in which you navigate life, relationships, or challenges? challenges today?

Olivia Haviland [00:10:59]:
Um, I would say, I mean, definitely he— I obviously wasn’t alive, but he did struggle when he was a teenager and in his 20s. And I feel like when I got into that point, when I was getting in some trouble my sophomore year of high school and everything, just like for him to know exactly what it was like to do the same things helped him guide me out of it instead of, like I said earlier, yelling at me, screaming at me. He would actually like hear me out and be like, hey, I was in your position once and this is how I got through it. But he would also always bring faith into it and keep me strong in my faith. Like he would always end a conversation with a Bible verse or bring in a passage or a verse just to help me through something.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]:
Now, Matt, we talked about— Olivia’s just talking about some challenging times, and all of us go through those challenging times as we’re raising kids. There’s great times and there’s where you might hit rock bottom as well. And what are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Olivia, especially during those challenging times?

Matt Haviland [00:12:05]:
I’ve always had, since I’ve become a dad, and I am one to really— I’m a huge advocate for everyone to have a mentor. You know, I’ve always had a mentor. I wasn’t raised in a two-parent home. My parents were never married. My dad was minimally engaged in my life. So not having that strong father figure in my life, growing up and understanding what that’s like. But when I did become a dad, I’ve always had strong mentor men in my life in various capacities. Some might be in work, some might be in parenting, or whatever it may be.

Matt Haviland [00:12:38]:
So I think being able to talk it through with a mentor who also was a father, and maybe even perhaps depending on who it was, a grandfather— so a mentor just being somebody that’s a little older and has more experience And hearing that out. And Chris, there was a ton of mistakes along the way. I mean, I’m not going to lie. There was— I’ve had some really bad moments as parents, never in a, like, an abusive way or anything, but where I really dropped the ball. And just understand, I don’t ever want to feel like that again. Apologizing to her, admitting that I screwed up and doing my best not to go through that again. But by the time she was really struggling, especially in the late middle school, early high school years, again, by this point, I’m in my mid-40s. I had been parenting her for a long time.

Matt Haviland [00:13:22]:
So, I knew Olivia. I was able to read her cues. And, I understand that might be a little different in every family dynamic, but I was able to read her cues. And, the girl talks all the time. So, when Olivia’s quiet, there’s obviously there’s something going on. And, like she said, I mean, I was in some— my teen and 20s were some pretty dark years in my life and never wanting her to go through that. I struggled with substance abuse and a lot of other I didn’t go that far. No, but I’m just saying I didn’t want you to go that far.

Matt Haviland [00:13:53]:
So being able to kind of curb that beforehand. But there’s always— I think there also was a special bond. And again, this isn’t to take away from anybody in other family dynamics, but because I was a single father, when I had Olivia, it was me and Olivia. So for 9 years, it was just us. We were like a team, you know? And just to be able to read— and I mean, she’s my heart, and I wanted to in so many ways, give her what I was never given from an upbringing even though it wasn’t perfect because she was still being raised in 2 different homes. But nonetheless, giving her the holidays or the Christmases or the love—

Olivia Haviland [00:14:28]:
Dance recitals and games.

Matt Haviland [00:14:29]:
Yeah, attending. My dad made 2 of my baseball games over 12 years. And, I was at almost every game I could make for her or her dance recitals and understanding how important that is for her to look out in the crowd And to see me there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]:
You know, Olivia, earlier I asked your dad about how he worked to be able to provide you with that independence that you needed. Talk to me on your side of how your dad encouraged you to be confident and independent in your life.

Olivia Haviland [00:14:56]:
I would say he’s always been my biggest cheerleader, even if it’s loud and obnoxious at my games. Or there was one time he was saying how much he loved me in the middle of McDonald’s, just screaming it.

Matt Haviland [00:15:09]:
On purpose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:10]:
On purpose.

Matt Haviland [00:15:11]:
To embarrass her on purpose.

Olivia Haviland [00:15:12]:
But I would say, like, he’s always been like, he’ll send me a, hey, good morning, I hope you have an amazing day. It’s not every day, but I think that’s what makes it more special is that it’ll be like out of the blue or it’ll be like a Bible verse or like I’ll tell him, I’m like, hey, I had a really bad day today. And then he’ll send me a Bible verse or be like, hey, I have time to call. I would say that’s really encouraging. And then also just like, you know, I’ll be at work and then he’ll show up and bring Dunkin’ or Subway, just like showing that even like if he can see me for 5 minutes, like it still matters. So that means a lot to me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]:
And Matt, we talked before we started today about what Olivia is doing and she’s working in healthcare right now. And I guess as you have been fathering Olivia, how do you support Olivia in pursuing her passions and her dreams?

Matt Haviland [00:16:04]:
Great question. I, first of all, I’m very impressed because Olivia has a career focus already at 20. And I know that’s not rare, but I, at 20, I mean, I was completely in the opposite direction. So I’m already just so proud of her because, I mean, she is very motivated, she’s very determined, she has an excellent work ethic. I mean, she works hard and she really respects the job that she has, even if she doesn’t like it a lot. So, so to encourage her again— Yeah, she likes her job right now, so that’s good. But to encourage her, I would say again, just listening, kind of maybe as she’s talking, processing, like, okay, what’s this going to look like in your life? Is this going to require more schooling? Sometimes I ask her questions like, how do you see this playing out long-term? If you want to get advanced in your career, what’s that going to look like? How’s that going to affect the other areas of your life? And kind of just helping her think through. You know, she doesn’t have all the weight that, you know, we as adults have right now, you know, carrying a lot of mortgages or payments or, you know, other bigger obligations.

Matt Haviland [00:17:09]:
Not to minimize what she’s doing, but—

Olivia Haviland [00:17:10]:
Right.

Matt Haviland [00:17:11]:
But she has some opportunity and some room right now to really dream, like, hey, what do I want to do for a career? And if I do change my career, that’s okay. But she has tremendous skills. I think that’s one thing, is to let her know what skills she has. She’s definitely a people person. She has a hard work ethic. She’s a great communicator. So just kind of saying, hey, these are the things you’re really good at. So where would that fit for you in your career field?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:35]:
And Olivia, if you could spend an entire day with your dad doing anything, what would it look like?

Olivia Haviland [00:17:39]:
Oh, no. No signs, no dad jokes. That would be—

Matt Haviland [00:17:44]:
You gotta explain the signs.

Olivia Haviland [00:17:46]:
He is obsessed. I will be trying, like, you know, we go to a zoo, I want to see the animals, and he’s like, oh, I want to know where the animals lived, um, where they came from, how old are they, how many, like, claws do they have, how many teeth. Like, it doesn’t matter. Like, I just— I want to see the animals. And it kind of just began as, like, a running joke. Every time he sees a sign, he sends it to me. I reply with, I’m not reading that. But I would say a perfect day, honestly, I love our beach days because he’s very— I mean, we’re like the same person.

Olivia Haviland [00:18:19]:
Like, we don’t want to get out of the water, but we’ve always played stupid games like how many times can we catch the ball in a row throwing trick shots. And then like during COVID we were hitting a ball on our roof with a tennis racket, like, and made that like a whole summer competition. So I would say just like Like little games, like beach day getaway, just the two of us. And then probably Star Wars at the end. Star Wars are an old movie, but something we do like monthly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:48]:
Sounds like a good day. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6, 6 more questions. And I usually ask them just to dads, but I’m gonna ask both of you some different questions or questions for both of you. Uh, first and foremost, Olivia, what’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:04]:
Comforting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:05]:
And Matt, what’s your word?

Matt Haviland [00:19:06]:
I’d say solid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]:
And Matt, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Matt Haviland [00:19:12]:
I think it’s honestly, it’s been in multiple forms and it’s what I’ve already mentioned. It’s just spending time with them. Other things can wait. And I’ve heard a million different quotes in that way, but it all boils down to spending undivided, just they got my attention or she has my attention. Everything else can wait and it’s just our time. So yeah, time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:33]:
And Olivia, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:37]:
I would honestly say, like, like he said earlier, the, like, talking me through it. Where can you see yourself from this? Let’s, you know, visualize what even is it gonna look like in a month versus 5 years. And I would say that’s gotten me a lot of places because before I make decisions now, I always, like, stop and think, like, hey, like, I may like it right now, but in 3 months, am I gonna like what I’m doing? In a year, am I gonna like what I’m doing? Am I gonna wanna be doing this when I’m older?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:06]:
Yeah.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:06]:
I’m 60 or 70 years old kind of thing. So I would say that’s gotten me far in a lot of places.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]:
Matt, what’s one activity that you and Olivia love doing together?

Matt Haviland [00:20:15]:
You’re gonna appreciate this one, Christopher. Going to University of Michigan football games.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:20]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
And I’m gonna throw it back to you too, Olivia. And it doesn’t have to be the same thing. It’d be something different.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:25]:
Daddy-daughter dances or like donuts with dad or anything that’s like one-on-one mini golf, golf, and football games, definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:33]:
Matt, if you could give Olivia one life lesson in a single sentence, What would it be?

Matt Haviland [00:20:37]:
Love God, love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:38]:
And Matt, what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Matt Haviland [00:20:42]:
I think—

Olivia Haviland [00:20:43]:
The girl version of you.

Matt Haviland [00:20:45]:
That too. But I would say since becoming a dad, I think you learn how the word selfish feels strong, but I don’t think it’s out of line of when it’s just us. But when it was just me as a single dad or a single man versus becoming a father, it was all about me. I tell my new guys, I think I think being a parent drives you to a level of commitment to your children that would not be attained any other way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
And Olivia, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Olivia Haviland [00:21:16]:
I would say put aside anything that can wait, and then also listen before either conversating or just listen to the full story instead of, like, interrupting, getting down to the point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:32]:
And Matt?

Matt Haviland [00:21:32]:
Yeah, I think it’s so important to live out your values and what’s important to your family. We have a culture that is in many ways just so antagonistic and assaulting our daughters, and to be able to speak against that, letting our daughters know how beautiful they are, how valued they are, their virtue, their beauty, their tenderness. And this is an appropriate conversation for whether you’re raising a 5-year-old or a 20-year-old as well.

Olivia Haviland [00:21:58]:
I would also always say time over items too, because I know A lot of my friends’ parents will be like at work because they work third shift or something. They’ll be like, here’s money to go get something because I didn’t see you all day, or here’s money because I yelled at you kind of thing, instead of just sitting down, actually talking everything out. It helps grow a relationship too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:20]:
Well, Matt, Olivia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for spending time with me today, for sharing your journey in your own relationship. Matt is an author as well, and I should mention that he did write a book a number of years back called A Father’s Walk, a Christian-based resource for single fathers. And if people want to find out more about you, Matt, and what you’re doing, where should they go?

Matt Haviland [00:22:43]:
I don’t have a website, but you can email me. I’m completely open to that. My email is afatherswalk@gmail.com. That’s a fathers with an S on the end, walk at Gmail.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:54]:
Well, again, I want to say thank you. Thank you to both of you for your time, for sharing your And I wish you both all the best.

Matt Haviland [00:23:01]:
Thanks, Christopher.

Olivia Haviland [00:23:01]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:02]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:23:33]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons. We make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Building Lasting Bonds: Intentional Fatherhood with John Azoni

September 7, 2026 by dadofdivas

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If you’re a dad on a mission to forge a lasting, meaningful bond with your daughter, “The Dad and Daughter Connection” should be your next podcast download. In a recent episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with John Azoni, a father of two daughters (ages 9 and 11), who opens up about the real joys and sometimes messy challenges of raising confident, independent girls.

Intentionality and Presence
From the very start, Dr. Christopher Lewis sets the tone: fatherhood isn’t about achieving perfection, but about truly connecting and learning as you go. Each week, the podcast dives into stories and practical advice to help dads show up with intention. As John Azoni shares, “There’s no one right way to father our daughters,” but we can always add new tools to our toolbox by learning from each other.

Creating Meaningful Memories
A standout theme of this episode is making memories, both big and small. John Azoni recounts an unforgettable trip to Japan with his daughter for her 10th birthday—a tradition inspired by a parenting book. But the heart of the conversation reveals that it’s often the simplest moments, like cooking together or going for wonton soup every Thursday, that mean the most. One-on-one time, even a half hour at bedtime, can become the foundation for lifelong connections.

Honesty, Growth, and Mistakes
Both John Azoni and Dr. Christopher Lewis candidly discuss the challenges—especially during difficult times like COVID or navigating questions around faith. John Azoni is honest about making mistakes, from losing patience to not always having the answers. The key lesson? “I make a lot of mistakes and I’ve learned to be okay with that… I want my kids to grow up and know their dad was crazy about them.”

Encouragement to Other Dads
The episode wraps with powerful advice: Be intentional. Don’t let stress distract you from what really matters. As John Azoni puts it, “The grass is greener where you water it”—the relationships you invest in now will shape the future.

If you’re a dad, or know someone who is, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a heartfelt reminder that showing up, being present, and embracing imperfection are the real keys to building an unbreakable bond with your daughter.

Listen to the full episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection to get inspired and start your journey toward a stronger relationship today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with one another and work on building those that we want with our daughters one day at a time. I love that you come back every week because all of us are on a journey. Whether you have toddlers, whether you have a baby at home, whether you have teenagers at home, whether you have adult kids, we all are on this continuum of being a father to a daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]:
And we can always learn more. We can always learn more to help us to be able to be better in the role that we have. We’re gonna stumble, we’re gonna fall, That’s okay. All of us do it. There’s no one right way to father our daughters. But what we can do is we can learn from other dads what’s working for them, what’s not working for them, and build some tools for our own toolbox, add some tools for our own toolbox, and be able to get just that much better every day because that’s what we need to be doing. to be able to be there for our daughters. That’s what we need to be doing to be able to be present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:59]:
And I am really excited to have another new guest this week. John Azoni is with us today, and John’s a father of 2 daughters who are 9 and 11. And we’re gonna be talking about the journey that he’s been on with his daughters. And I’m really excited to have him here today. John, thanks so much for being here.

John Azoni [00:02:15]:
Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:17]:
You know, it’s really, I’m really excited to be able to have you here today and to be able to talk to you about the journey that you have been on thus far with your daughters. And I guess one of the things that I always think about when it comes to raising our daughters is we’re always running after those moments. We want those moments with our kids. And as you think back to the years that you’ve had with your daughters thus far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with them and what made it so special? And one thing I’ll add is they could be separate moments as well.

John Azoni [00:02:49]:
So I read this book a number of years ago called Love Does. The author is Bob Goff and it’s a faith-based book. And in it, he talks a lot about parenting. parenting. And he told the story of taking his kids when they turned 10 on a trip anywhere in the world they want to go to, really leaning into what is it that they are becoming, what is it that they’re interested in, and, and where can we go in the world to kind of deepen that. And so I always thought that that was a cool idea. And my daughter, when she turned 10 last year, my daughter Ellie, in my mind I was kind of like maybe somewhere in the United States. I don’t remember explicitly saying anywhere in the world.

John Azoni [00:03:25]:
So when my daughter was like, I want to go to Japan, I was like, oh, okay. Well, so after a lot of hemming and hawing, I talked to my wife. She’s like, just do it. It’s like once in a lifetime. We’re like, all right, we’re going to Japan. So, so we went to Tokyo last May and it was so cool just to learn about another culture together, to really press into, you know, the stuff that she likes. She’s really into K-pop. It’s obviously not in Korea, but somewhere over there.

John Azoni [00:03:54]:
She’s into that kind of Asian culture and Hello Kitty. And they have the biggest Hello Kitty store in the world there, uh, video games and arcades where she can and do all the— she loves playing those claw games, which are really popular in Asian countries. So, so it was great. I mean, we just traveled around, we ate good food, we went to Paris Disney, um, and just spent a week together. That— and, and even just like, it was a pretty short trip, but— and people were like, well, you’re just going for like 5 days? Like, aren’t you gonna be— I mean, like, a big part of that is just traveling, you know? By the time you get there, I think we had 3 full days there. And I was just like, you know, it’s, it’s the adventure. It’s like traveling is, is part of it. We’re gonna learn how to do the airport together.

John Azoni [00:04:30]:
So on the way there, I kind of led the charge, but on the way back I was like, All right, where do you think we should turn to get to baggage claim or stuff like that? Or where do you think we should go to get our bags checked? So that was fun. And, you know, I’ve had other special experiences with my youngest daughter, Ryland. Currently though, we’re planning her trip. She wants to go to Paris. So we’re planning on going to Paris next year.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:50]:
Those will be experiences that they will never forget. And definitely you don’t have to do these huge moments. They can be small moments as well. But I had an experience like that last year with my oldest who is in college, but she was out in Colorado and I picked her up from a camp she was working in and we spent a week going to all the national parks all around in that area. So we went to Zion and Bryce and Grand Canyon and Petrified Forest, all kinds of places. And we hiked and we just had an amazing experience. And I think when you have those opportunities, not only are they great opportunities to be able to have to build memories, but you have time one-on-one. And I think that’s even more important.

John Azoni [00:05:32]:
Yeah, one-on-one time is really special. So last weekend, my oldest daughter went to Florida with my wife because she does dance, and her dance group went to go perform at Disney in the parade. And so that was just a life dream of hers. And she got this one-on-one time with my wife. And previously, we were kind of like, all right, we’re Disney’d out. We’ve been to Disney World. We’ve been on a Disney cruise. I took Ellie to Disney in Tokyo.

John Azoni [00:05:58]:
And we’ve been to Disneyland when we went to California last year. And my wife was kind of like, all right, this is the last time I got to go to Disney. And then I get a text from her in the middle of it. She’s like, this is so great. It’s such a different experience being one-on-one with Ellie and we’re just having the best time. And at the same time, I’m home with Ryland and we had our own special weekend. We, you know, wrote on the whiteboard, here’s all the things we wanna do and we wanna schedule all these things out. Anytime you can write a list on a whiteboard for my youngest, she’s all about it.

John Azoni [00:06:27]:
She loves to just like have a checklist, have a plan. So one-on-one time is something completely different that you just cannot replace.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]:
Now you talked a little bit about on that trip to Tokyo, giving your daughter some independence to be able to make some decisions and things like that. And, and as our kids are getting older, we definitely have to do that. How are you finding that you’re balancing not only guiding your daughters, but also giving them the independence to grow into the people that they’re becoming?

John Azoni [00:06:52]:
Oh, that’s a tough question. I try to lean into who are they and what is, what is my role in this? Like one of the things that I learned about Ellie on that Japan trip is how scrappy she is. And it’s so different for me. Like she has no problem going up and asking a stranger where to get directions. Or one time we were on the bus going somewhere in Tokyo and some lady was lost. And for some reason my daughter stepped in and starts trying to tell her where to go as if she knows where to go. I’m like, Ellie, where do you think you’re sending her? She just wants to get in there. And I’m just very like, I don’t like to be embarrassed.

John Azoni [00:07:27]:
I don’t like to ask for help. I’m a lot more shy, but she kind of lifts me up in that way. I really try to get on that level with her and also just try to let her be who she is and go out into the world and just talk to new people like her mom does. But I think it’s always a challenge where to step in. I think the biggest area that we are struggling with that right now is, is in faith. And I don’t know if you’re a person of faith, but when I got married, my wife and I were both devout Christians. And over the last 5 years, I’ve kind of deconstructed and my faith has evolved in a way— I wouldn’t say I’m not a believer, but I would say like I just have so many questions that I’m allowing myself to ask. And I’m engaging in these conversations with what I grew up believing versus what can be verified and things like that.

John Azoni [00:08:13]:
So I’m kind of down this more scientific path. My wife isn’t. How do we let our kids discover things on their own? And what do we teach them about the world? That’s been really hard because when you’re defining your parenthood around an entire ideology, like a religion, and that’s the lens that you’re giving your kids, and that’s the lens you’re told to give your kids, you’re instructed to teach them in this way. Well, now when you throw questions into the mix, mom and dad have different answers for what do you do? So I think we’ve kind of landed on. We want our kids to think independently. And when one of my kids has a tough question, I’ll say, well, here’s what I think. Here’s what I’m not sure about. Like, here’s what I have questions about.

John Azoni [00:08:55]:
Here’s what your mom thinks. And you can kind of make up your own decision. And that was also never more true in, you know, this most recent election. You know, my oldest had a lot of questions about who was running for president, who was the good guy, and who was the bad guy. And it’s easy to want to pick a side and train your kid on that side. But we really tried to just step back and be like, well, Well, here’s what this side says. Here’s what that side says. What do you think? And so that’s kind of where we’ve landed, I think, giving them some scaffolding, but letting them kind of figure it out themselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:26]:
And as you’ve been starting to do that with your daughters, especially around this faith journey, what has their response been?

John Azoni [00:09:33]:
It’s tough because they knew me when we were all praying every night and putting them to bed and going to church all the time and, you know, all this stuff. And so they’ve seen me kind of drift and ask these questions that they look at me as I’m supposed to have the answers To these, you’re supposed to know if if Adam and Eve are real people or not. And so that’s been tough. You know, their response has been honestly one of confusion. I wish I had a glossy answer for you. It’s not gone great. It’s very tough to navigate. And like I said, you know, we just go back to like here’s what two different people can think, and we can hold two different things in tension.

John Azoni [00:10:11]:
And certainly the Bible, there are a lot of instances where the Bible is represented as God holding two. seemingly opposing things in tension together and somehow making it work. So we kind of go with that. But yeah, I wish I could tell you that it’s gone. It’s just been perfect. And they’re— they have all the answers that I don’t have. But anytime you’re trying to sort through something on your own and your kid’s looking to you for the answer, that’s just a tough position to be in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:36]:
It is a tough place to be because, I mean, you try to have that solid front on everything in parenting because when you don’t have the solid front, then things tend to go awry. So I think what you’re hearing here, though, is that John and his wife still have a solid front, but they’re attacking it in different ways. And they’re providing their kids the ability to be able to move in the direction that makes more sense for them. That doesn’t mean that they’re not in alignment on other things in their parenting journey, though.

John Azoni [00:11:07]:
Yeah, I would liken it to, like, giving them— I mentioned the term scaffolding, and I really like that term. And I would just say, So we’ve just really widened the scaffolding around faith to where we’re still in this box. But what that looks like on a day-to-day basis or on an individual beliefs basis can look different. And 2 people can arrive at different conclusions and still have the same heart.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:31]:
So as you think about your daughters and you think about what you’ve been doing with your daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during times that might be more challenging?

John Azoni [00:11:43]:
COVID was a time of obviously being sort of forced into this intentional time. And at first it was very stressful because at the time I had a salaried job and a certain amount of PTO days and I’m a rule follower. So if I say I’m working, but I’m off at the park with the kids, like I don’t, I don’t feel good about that. But like there was all this stuff that you had to do from out of necessity during that time. So it was a stressful time, but it also kind of caused me to be like, let’s really soak this up. And so we did a lot of stuff together as a family, but that actually led me to leave that job. and start my own company, my own video production company. And for a big reason was to be more flexible with them and to be able to be home with them and be there when they need me and not have to worry about PTO.

John Azoni [00:12:28]:
And so that’s opened the doors to a lot of great times where I might be right in the middle of a busy project and I would get a call from the school. And my oldest, Ellie, she was the one that would call home a lot. She would feel a stomachache or something and she’d feel like she needed to go home. And we would have to navigate like a lot of times, like, what is the line that Where Dad will pick you up and where you need to tough it out. But there’s a lot of times where I could have been really stressed about work, but I had to just really be like, you know what, I’m just— I’m gonna go pick her up. I’m gonna be happy about it. I’m gonna have a smile on my face. I’m gonna make her feel like Dad wants to be here.

John Azoni [00:13:01]:
Dad cares about me. He’s not annoyed with me. You know, I think just those small acts have been great. And I remember, you know, other times too, just a lot of our special times revolve around food.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:12]:
Yeah.

John Azoni [00:13:13]:
It seems like every Thursday, a number of years ago when Ellie was in preschool, she would have a half day. And so I’d pick her up and every Thursday we’d go get wonton soup on the way home at this Chinese restaurant. And we learned— Dad stepped out of his comfort zone and learned the owner of the restaurant’s name so that when we called, we can say, hey, Lynn, our usual. She wanted that. Like, that would just be so cool. And so eventually she started calling and being like, hi, Lynn, it’s Ellie, just our usual. And then we’d go pick it up. But we cook a lot together too.

John Azoni [00:13:42]:
My daughters each really enjoy cooking and no matter what we’re making, just spending time together. And that’s where I think one-on-one time is really important because trying to cook with both of them at the same time is just a constant referee of who got to chop what, who got to pour this, who cracked the last egg, you know. So I found just one at a time, we’ll have a great time together, but let’s just, you know. So yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of opportunities, but I think it’s a lot in those small moments where it’s like my natural reaction might be to be stressed or just to be worried about the day-to-day. stuff, but like my daughters are looking to me as like, am I liked? Like, am I loved in this moment? Am I safe in this moment? Does my dad want to be here? And I really try to, to just put on a smile and just be like, you know what, this— because one of the things I say, I started saying since I started my own business was my business is in service of my kids, not in spite of them. And that’s a tough thing to, to stick to because whether or not something gets done has a very real consequences about whether, whether income comes in the door. But, but the reason why I— half the reason I started my own company was to be there for my kids and to not miss this time with them. And so, so yeah, that’s kind of how I think about work and spending time with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:01]:
All of us as dads, we’re not perfect. We make mistakes. And while we try our best to be the best we can, we’re going to make mistakes. We’re fallible. We’re humans. What’s a mistake that you made as a father? And what did What did it do, or what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication and connection with your daughters?

John Azoni [00:15:20]:
I think it’s a pattern of mistakes. And when I get overstimulated, when there’s too many people talking to me at once, I get immediate, like 0 to 100 stressed out. And that’s— I’m so likely to just lash out and like snap and say something, tell them to be quiet, but in a rude way that we’re not allowed to say. So that’s where it’s such a tension of like, because they’re both in the back talking like peak back-talking phase. And honestly, my youngest is the most cutting about it. I mean, she will just go right for the jugular. And they talk back usually as a reaction and not as a response, like not as an intentional response. So when I’m feeling stressed or overwhelmed and I lash out, I’m not doing any service to them.

John Azoni [00:16:06]:
It’s very hypocritical to tell them that’s not how we talk to people. And then just in a, in a different way or a different use of words, I do the same thing. So I think that’s— I think we’re all learning together. How to regulate ourselves. My wife is a therapist, and so we’ve learned a lot about the concept of regulation, and we’ve read a lot of parenting books about when your kids make you mad or something, or they say something completely disrespectful, they’re dysregulated. They’re not really choosing that response. And so your job as a parent is to be the one that regulates, not escalates. And so that’s— that is the toughest thing for me, like— I have to really think I’m feeling myself escalating this situation and I need to be the, I need to be the regulator.

John Azoni [00:16:50]:
So I don’t know if that answers your question, but that’s just a slurry of thoughts of, of communication between me and my kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:58]:
No, I appreciate you sharing that because I think it is important to understand that that happens. I mean, and we’re going to, things are going to adjust and, you know, and all of us get overwhelmed at times. And especially these days, there’s so many things being thrown at every one of us. And whether it’s technology, whether it’s, you know, whatever, there are so many things that are being thrown at each one of us, not only us, but our kids, etc. So it is important to know that. And then finding ways to be able to quiet the noise, not only for ourselves, but quiet the noise for our kids, I think is also important as we think about our— the way in which we’re fathering. Because if we know— if you know that you’re triggered when that happens, you have to figure out for yourself, and you’ve probably already done that, is What can you do to quiet the noise so that you can continue being present and continue, continue being who you want to be with your daughters?

John Azoni [00:17:51]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:52]:
So there’s been a lot of things that you’ve talked about where you’re showing that you’re doing some intentional things to really connect with your daughters. What do you do intentionally to make your daughters feel valued and heard?

John Azoni [00:18:04]:
I think it’s just trying to get on their level and care about the things that they care about. My youngest, it’s always was so funny, and we, my wife and I laugh about this. We would pick her up from daycare when she was younger, you know, 3, 4 years old. And that could be a very stressful moment because we’re also picking up my oldest from daycare and she’s wanting to do something. Can we go out for ice cream? Or when’s mom going to be home? Blah, blah, blah. And again, too many people talking to me at once. And my youngest, all she wants to do in that moment is show me the drawings that she made and show me the little worksheets that she did. And it’s so important to her.

John Azoni [00:18:38]:
And she feels, you can just see the receiving of love when you look at her and you care about what she wrote, that she wrote her name or that she did something, that she wrote, she counted to 10 or whatever it is. And so, I mean, we have stacks and stacks of paper because that behavior has never stopped. She’s almost 9 and she still to this day wants to show us everything. She went to this art camp a couple weeks ago, made all kinds of art. And the first thing she wants to do when we get in the car is like, Dad, let me show you what I made. And it’s so important that I give her my full attention. And I can get on board with that because I’m— my background’s in fine arts. I’m a painter.

John Azoni [00:19:14]:
So I went to art school and all that stuff. So that’s a perfect thing for me to like get on board with. I think just, yeah, finding in those moments, what are they really trying to say right now? What they’re really trying to say is, Dad, I want to connect with you. Not like, not necessarily about the papers or the drawings or whatever. And I find that with my oldest too. She’s starting to outgrow like bedtime, but she still wants me to put her to bed. And, you know, and I’m kind of just like clinging to that for as long as possible. And we just have the best talks.

John Azoni [00:19:43]:
Like, there’s just no greater conversation than when we’re just— I’m just laying in her bed with her next to her and we’re just, just talking about whatever, just laughing about things. I mean, so much laughter happens in those moments. And I listen when I’m putting my other daughter to bed, my wife’s putting Ellie to bed, I hear them cracking up too because they just get into the funniest, you know, they just become a new person. They feel so safe. And so I think just being intentional about those moments, because sometimes I’m like, I’m tired, it’s 9:30, I got to get up at 5 in the morning. I don’t want to spend a half an hour, you know, laying, laying with you and waiting for you to brush your teeth and waiting for you to put your pajamas on. And it’s getting towards 10 o’clock now. And so I try, but I try to really push that aside and say, hey, she’s, she’s not going to ask me to do this for much longer.

John Azoni [00:20:29]:
And in 5 years, I’m going to miss any, any attention she gave me, like her wanting to actually hang out with me, because it’s going to be the other way around. So, so I think it’s just, I think it’s just recognizing in those moments what’s really most important and then just leaning into that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:45]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:52]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:56]:
Humor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:57]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you ever received?

John Azoni [00:21:02]:
It’s probably from when you’re walking around a grocery store and you get like a whole stream of like elderly men that will say, I remember when my daughter was that age and then she started driving the next day. Like, don’t miss it. I really actually took advice to heart, like what I just said. I’m like, there’s gonna be a time when they’re not gonna want to hang out with me, so don’t miss it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:20]:
What’s one activity you and your daughters love doing together?

John Azoni [00:21:24]:
Cooking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:25]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

John Azoni [00:21:30]:
I think just don’t change for other people. Don’t be the person that you’re with. I think like maybe girls especially start dating and things like that, they want to change to be liked and to impress and things like that. And so I think my advice would just be to just be yourself and be What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad? I have learned, I have learned that I make a lot of mistakes and I’ve learned to be okay with that. I just want my kids to grow up and know that their dad was crazy about them. And for all my flaws, I want them to— I watched this video one time. It was my boss’s. We did a story on my boss at the time at my old job, his family.

John Azoni [00:22:11]:
And we interviewed his wife and they were talking about her parents and they asked her, what’s your favorite thing about your dad? And she said, said how much he loves me. And she started crying. And I edited that video. So of course, I’m like, I’m like tearing up and like, you know, you got the music going and stuff like that in the edit, in the video edit. So, but I’ve always kept that with me as like, that’s like my mantra as a dad. Like, I’m gonna mess up, but like, I want my kids to, to really feel and be imprinted with how like crazy I am about them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:39]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

John Azoni [00:22:48]:
I think it’s just being really intentional with them. I think for me, I just think about, it’s like we have 18 years if we’re lucky, and I want to build as many memories with them as possible. And I don’t want to waste this being stressed about stuff that’s just not going to matter in 50 years. And so, and I think about it the same way of like marriage advice. People contrast the saying of the grass is greener on the other side. side with, with saying the grass is greener where you water it. And I like that about marriage. And that’s something that I keep in my mind.

John Azoni [00:23:20]:
But I also think that that applies to kids too. I mean, the type of relationship that you’re going to have with your kids now and when they’re older is determined by how intentional you are in these early years and just watering that grass.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:34]:
Well, John, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing what you shared with the journey that you’ve gone through. If people want to find out more about you, I know you got a podcast. Is there a place that people can go to find out more?

John Azoni [00:23:46]:
Yeah, I’m very active on LinkedIn. My name’s spelled J-O-H-N-A-Z-O-N-I if you’re searching for me. That’s probably where I hang out the most, on LinkedIn. I don’t post a whole lot of family stuff, but once in a while you might get some sort of business advice through the lens of being a dad to 2 girls.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]:
Well, again, John, thank you so much for being here, and I wish you all the best.

John Azoni [00:24:03]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:03]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:24:34]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. So bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

How to Let Go and Let Grow: Encouraging Independence in Daughters

August 24, 2026 by dadofdivas

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Are you a dad searching for practical ways to foster a stronger bond and raise your daughter to be capable, resilient, and self-assured? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Lenore Skenazy, journalist, author, and founder of the Free-Range Kids movement, for a timely, inspiring discussion on balancing love, trust, and independence in parenting.

Challenging the Culture of Fear

One of the episode’s powerful themes is how today’s parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing “what ifs” from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children’s experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

The Power of Trust and Letting Go

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential “trust loop,” where letting children try things on their own—whether it’s walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, “When adults step back, kids step up.” True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

Practical Steps for Parents

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they’re small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own “let grow” experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you’ll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

Join the Movement

This episode isn’t just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today’s anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]:
I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It’s not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that’s okay. That’s why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’m a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we’ve got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I’m really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you’ve ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she’s an author, she’s founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she’s often called America’s worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]:
Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we’ve become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad’s been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things he didn’t do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn’t expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn’t have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn’t have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]:
Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it’s not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn’t have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]:
And that didn’t bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]:
As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]:
Well, here’s the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he’s looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man’s, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don’t say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]:
And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It’s the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he’s very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he’ll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he’s just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he’s— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it’s an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]:
And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you’re putting somebody else’s emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]:
And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it’s the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what’s your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]:
Now, I know you said your dad’s been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]:
Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I’m pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and ’20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we’d get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]:
And God knows how many toothpicks he’d go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]:
Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I’m going to say the world, because you’ve been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let’s go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]:
Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he’d never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we’re always on the subways. We don’t have a car and he’s a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale’s fancy department store where we don’t shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]:
So he’d never been there before. And it’s built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today’s the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]:
He’d finally been let loose and he’d proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, ’cause it didn’t strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I’ll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That’s wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]:
But what if he wasn’t? What if he’d been thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that’s what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you’re not doing that too, if you’re not saying, well, I’d like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who’s, you know, 5’6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I’m not going to let her walk. And that’s a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I’ve been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you’d have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]:
How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]:
Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]:
Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]:
Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]:
Yeah, because it’s an extraordinarily rare crime. It’s not extraordinarily rare on TV. It’s pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn’t happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It’s generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you’re gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn’t let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]:
You know, there’s drunk drivers out there, there’s bad drivers out there, there’s elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn’t let them live in a house with stairs or there’s a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you’ll never see him again. And that’s, that’s as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it’s like, I can’t let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It’s like, I’m really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it’s like, well, you should be. It’s like, but I’m not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]:
Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I’m like, I’m just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don’t care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You know, from everything I’ve seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]:
But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]:
from everything I’ve read, it seems like it’s actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]:
Well, I think you’ve nailed it. The way I’ve started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I’d love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I’d never see him again and I would— couldn’t live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I’d be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won’t let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]:
It’s sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It’s not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend’s house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you’re sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there’s horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]:
First of all, you’re a parent, you’re going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you’re— you, you’ve given birth to a child and now you’re going to worry about them. There’s no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they’re thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they’re a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn’t remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you’re so proud, right? You’re so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you’re a parent. I’ll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]:
You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she’s out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]:
Yeah, it’s not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn’t there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I’ve raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we’re there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we’re there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]:
And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we’re always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that’s because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We’ve really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]:
But look, that’s part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don’t get that. It’s, it’s the fun of— well, it’s the fun of seeing your kid after you haven’t seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you’re so much taller and you’ve filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that’s why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]:
But it’s also about Stepping back, because it’s true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you’re with your kids, you see what they’re doing wrong. Oh, that’s sloppy. That’s a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn’t do it that way. Here, let me help. It’s just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]:
It’s not because you’re a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It’s because when you’re with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don’t want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids’ adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that’s free, free, free, free, um, that’s called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents’ permission. But without your parents. And then each month there’s a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there’s a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]:
You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it’s really just to create that action that I’m talking about, ’cause action breaks the cycle. You’re afraid this’ll be terrible. If you’re really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend’s kid go out together. They don’t have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]:
and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can’t see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we’re there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it’s so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It’s like, yeah, because they haven’t eaten. They haven’t eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]:
And we’ve taken that out and we’ve given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I’d say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there’s, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that’s also just for home use, quote unquote. It’s like a game. It’s like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there’s 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he’s right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]:
And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That’s a very constricted childhood and that’s a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that’s the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it’s, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody’s doing it. You don’t feel weird, you don’t feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn’t do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]:
But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you’re drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger’s and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that’s nice. Or the laundry. That’s good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]:
You know, it doesn’t take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I’ve seen is that it’s just this loosening. It’s just a little loosening. There’s a little bit of pride. There’s a little bit of movement. And then it’s like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What’s a post office, Mom? I’ll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]:
So I’d say any movement is better than no movement, and it’s often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]:
What’s some of your favorite stories of, we’ll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]:
This is the one that I’ve heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it’s worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, ’cause it’s almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She’s sort of the apotheosis of what’s happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who’s 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It’s, it’s like, because someone’s going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don’t know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let’s put it that way, or excessive, right? I won’t say crazy, I’ll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]:
But anyways, he comes home, he’s got the Let Grow experience, He’s a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He’s in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can’t I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she’s like, okay, because she’s been— she’s getting used to it. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s a word in psychology, I think it’s accommodating or whatever it is. She’s getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]:
And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there’s 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]:
And then they’re all over the neighborhood and they’re zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it’s like locusts. They’ll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she’s now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]:
live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she’s also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can’t believe it. I’m gonna call the school. You know, I’m gonna get out there. That’s so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]:
Don’t worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we’re handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can’t keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let’s call him Steve. You can’t keep being mean to Steve. You know, that’s just not fair, or, you know, we won’t ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it’s true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]:
I guess as I think about what you’re saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you’re saying. So you talk about what you’re doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]:
A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They’re not good helpers. They’re terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they’re part of. And so don’t thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]:
And then when they’re older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it’s really good advice. It’ll take longer, but in the end, you’ll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you’re doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children’s museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it’s because they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]:
And they told Group B, they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they’re struggling with a button or a toggle, that’s actually learning? They’re learning every time they try to do something, even if they’re not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]:
And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that’s just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]:
that’s very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can’t show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, ’90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]:
That’s all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they’re going to be online. I would be too. It’s the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]:
So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we’re going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]:
Friday afternoons, I’m gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I’m not gonna be watching them, but there’ll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they’ll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there’s, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]:
Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]:
Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I’ve been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor’s wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you’re trying something in the real world, at first you’re not good at it, whether it’s making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn’t fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I’ve done something like that before, or, I’ve never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you’re wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven’t done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]:
So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that’s all I’m saying. It’s just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]:
First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I’m just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it’s let’s go or let it grow or let’s get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it’s letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it’s actually quite hard, I don’t know. It’s let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]:
So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They’re gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she’d been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That’s a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I’m gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]:
Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]:
Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]:
As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]:
I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there’s a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you’ve heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can’t make them into something. We can’t make a physicist. We can’t make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can’t make a genius. You can’t make a jerk. There’s a lot that’s innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]:
And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can’t make an Einstein and you can’t really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]:
Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you’re doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I’ve fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we’ve done some good things too. But we’ve also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]:
You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that’s just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It’s like, that’s not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We’re all humans and we’re going to make mistakes. And I think that what you’re doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]:
Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

A Change In Our Format

August 17, 2026 by dadofdivas

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Hey everyone, I wanted to take a few minutes to share a little change that’s coming to The Dad & Daughter Connection.

For the past several years, I’ve been bringing you a new episode every single week, and I am incredibly grateful for everyone who listens, shares an episode, recommends the podcast to a friend, or simply takes the time to tune in. This podcast means a lot to me, and getting to have conversations with amazing dads, daughters, authors, experts, and people who have something meaningful to teach us about fatherhood has been an incredible journey.

But I’ve also been reminded of something that I talk about on this podcast all the time: being present matters.

As much as I love doing this podcast, I’m also a dad, a husband, and someone with a lot of other responsibilities and commitments. And I’ve realized that trying to maintain a weekly schedule can sometimes mean I’m stretching myself a little too thin.

So, beginning today, The Dad & Daughter Connection will be moving from a weekly podcast to an every-other-week schedule.

Now, I want to be very clear: this isn’t about slowing down or giving you less. In fact, it’s about making sure I can continue giving you the kind of conversations and content you’ve come to expect from this podcast.

I want to have the time to find great guests, ask thoughtful questions, have meaningful conversations, and produce episodes that are worth your time. And just as importantly, I want to make sure I’m protecting time for the people who matter most to me—my family.

Because if I’m going to spend my time talking about the importance of being present for our daughters, I need to make sure I’m practicing what I preach.

So, you’re still going to hear the stories, the conversations, the laughs, and hopefully a few things that make you think differently about being a dad and raising strong, confident, independent daughters. You’ll just hear them every other week instead of every week.

I hope you’ll stick with me for the journey. And if you’ve been listening all along, thank you. I truly appreciate you being part of The Dad & Daughter Connection community.

Until next time, keep connecting with your daughters, keep having those important conversations, and most importantly, keep showing up.

Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child

August 10, 2026 by dadofdivas

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This week’s episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Empowering Daughters: Alan Mallory on Guiding with Adventure and Trust

August 3, 2026 by dadofdivas

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This week on The Dad and Daughter Connection, Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomed adventurer and performance coach Alan Mallory for an inspiring conversation on what it means to truly connect with your daughters. If you’re a dad seeking real-world advice, heartfelt stories, and strategies to build stronger family ties, this episode is a must-listen.

One of the most impactful themes that emerged is the importance of quality time and shared adventures. Alan Mallory talked passionately about how he’s embraced experiences with his two daughters, from spontaneous ski trips to months traveling across the country in a fifth wheel trailer. These journeys provided special opportunities, not just for fun, but for deep conversations and growth. “When it’s just the two of us, you can connect on a deeper level,” he shared, highlighting the magic of one-on-one time.

But beyond the adventures, Alan Mallory emphasized the vital balance between guidance and independence. He champions a parenting style rooted in mentorship rather than control: “You can’t dictate the direction… you have to give them that latitude”. This philosophy was shaped by his own experiences, like summiting Mount Everest alongside his family—and by seeing how trust and empowerment forge the strongest bonds.

Another powerful thread: fostering communication and emotional growth. Mallory admitted to struggling at times, especially when it comes to connecting on the emotional level, teaching us all that vulnerability makes for better dads: “I could probably think of a few times where I should have been more empathetic… and just listened”. It’s a message that resonates—sometimes the greatest gift we can offer is our presence and our ears.

For dads supporting daughters’ passions or mental health journeys, this episode is rich with wisdom: encourage experimentation, be the gentle guide, and above all, show up—time is fleeting, and investing those hours pays lifelong dividends.

The Dad and Daughter Connection is a source of community and inspiration for fathers everywhere. Whether you’re seeking reassurance or a nudge to start a new adventure, tune in—this conversation with Alan Mallory will remind you that being a great dad is about being present, facing the adventures together, and empowering your daughter to blaze her own trail.

Ready to strengthen your bond? Listen to the episode now and start building those lasting connections!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to talk about, but also work on those relationships that we want to build with our own daughters one step at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:04]:
And I’m so excited that you come back every week because we’re all on a journey. We’re all on a journey of trying to be the best dads that we want to be and the best dads that we can be. But to get there, we’ve got to put in the time. We got to put in the effort. We got to learn from other dads around us and see what they’re doing, see what makes sense and what works for them. But maybe, maybe that will work for you as well, and that’s why this podcast exists. This podcast exists to help you to be able to connect with other dads, but also to learn from some other dads that have different experiences. And I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences every week that can do just that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]:
Today we got another great guest. Alan Mallory is with us. And Alan is a dynamic speaker. He’s an author, he is a performance coach. But I saw him at a recent conference, and he was really talking about some of the things that he’s done in his life to push himself beyond who he thought he was and who he thought he could be. He. In his presentations, he gives kind of a unique blend of psychology, engineering, project management, and some artistic flair to be able to make the presentations really a dynamic one. And in the conversation that he gave to the Rotary group that I was with, I loved the message that he gave because he really rooted his messages in his experiences, both as an adventurer, a mountaineer, but really talking about the things that he’s done with his family, to be able to keep them, to bring them together and seeing that he is a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:
Of two daughters. I wanted to bring him on to talk a little bit about his own experience in being a father to daughters. So, Alan, thanks so much for being here today.

Alan Mallory [00:02:41]:
My pleasure. Looking forward to it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:42]:
Well, I’m really looking forward to talking to you today. And as I said, even before we started, I said this is kind of a topic that’s a little bit different than ones that probably you talk about all the time. And I always start the interviews with an opportunity because I know that you have two daughters yourself, 12 and 8. And all of us as fathers want to create those moments, those meaningful moments, those things that we can share with our daughters that they’ll remember but also will remember and that bring us closer together. What’s one’s, what’s, what is the most meaningful moment that you’ve been able to share with your daughters and what made it so special?

Alan Mallory [00:03:15]:
I don’t know if I could boil it down to one meaningful moment, but I mean, I’ve kind of emulated what my father did with me and my siblings and that spend a lot of quality time, especially out doing adventures with. With my kids. And so in many ways, I’m kind of blessed in the vocation I’ve chosen. I because I’m traveling all over the place, often I’ bring one of my kids along and both my daughters always spent some amazing quality time. Even this past winter, different ski trips, for example, where it’s just kind of a dad daughter ski trip, or when I have events in Hawaii or in kind of tropical locations, often they put their heads up to come along with those. And I found those particularly special when it’s just the two of us and you can kind of connect on a deeper level and just have fun as well. It’s not a chore if you’re doing things that you would normally like to do anyway and that they’ll like to do. And so we go kayaking or stand up paddleboarding or do some sort of adventure.

Alan Mallory [00:04:11]:
And I found those are the most special moments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]:
Now your daughters are getting older and you’ve got that daughter that’s a pre tween now and another daughter following not too far behind. And as they get older, they definitely push to get more independence. How do you balance guiding your daughters while still giving them that independence that they need to be able to grow into the people that they’re bec.

Alan Mallory [00:04:34]:
Yeah, I mean, that’s the balance that’s hard to strike. And we, all of us, that are parents really go through that. One of my programs I share kind of A curve between. It’s a parabolic relationship in that you have a mentor role that you want to kind of nudge your daughters in the right direction or what you believe is the right direction, but you can’t dictate that direction. And that’s what’s almost makes the parenting journey such a roller coaster. They’re their own people and sometimes they make. They need to learn through decisions that are made. And, you know, that’s how we learn.

Alan Mallory [00:05:03]:
If we kind of prevent them from discovering and innovating and all of that, then they just end up with bigger problems down the road. And so it’s through small. Allowing them the independence to make small mistakes in many ways, while providing that father mentor role that I think allows them to develop healthily. And it’s a difficult balance to get. And I would say in many ways it’s a balance that our society has really gone one way on. And that’s this kind of, you know, over controlling, bubble wrapping our children rather than allowing them to make mistakes in life, for example. But if you want them to be strong, independent people, you have to give them that latitude. I’d say that’s another thing that I learned from my father, for good or bad.

Alan Mallory [00:05:46]:
You know, he was always a very empowering person. We climbed Mount Everest in 2008, and this was with my father, brother, sister and I. And so also I was kind of learning from how he treated all of us, especially my sister in this case. There was one instance where basically we were in the death zone above 26,000ft. And he empowered her to kind of make her own decision, whether she wanted to continue on or not. And she was all by herself at that point because she had the altitude weakens your immune system. And so she had these awful sicknesses and she had actually internal bleeding, it was so bad. And.

Alan Mallory [00:06:18]:
But that was, you know, a difficult decision to make because obviously in a scenario like that, mistakes can be fatal, and often they are. But I think he’s always kind of had that mentality and I’ve tried to do that as well. You know, you start small so that when they’re young, allow them to make their own mistakes. You know, don’t always be there to provide. Well, I mean, you’re providing the safety rope kind of from a distance. I would say you don’t want them to get badly hurt or die, but that’s how they’re going to learn. You learn through adversity. And when we take that adversity away, which we do out of kindness in many ways, Certainly in the Western society, we’ve lived pretty, what I say, good lives.

Alan Mallory [00:06:57]:
We don’t have the same types of challenges that let’s say our ancestors had. So we try to make life more comfortable for our kids. Well, that can be detrimental because they just don’t learn. You learn through the adversity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:11]:
Well, I’d be remiss to not push a little bit on the trip that you had on Everest. And, and I guess I’m not going to ask you to retell that story because you have some books that are specifically about that. But one of the things that I guess that I am interested in is having you talk a little bit about what you learned from that trip with your siblings and your f and how that experience has either helped you in being the father that you’re becoming or has made you make some pivots in how you’re fathering your kids in different ways.

Alan Mallory [00:07:45]:
Well, that was the ultimate family adventure, you might say. I mean, the stakes are very high. The need for healthy relationships is extreme because otherwise, 70 plus percent of the teens while we were there, they tore themselves apart from the inside out. And at that point it’s everyone on their own and they have to just pack up and head home. And so being able to resolve conflicts effectively and quickly and say what needs to be said, even though it might inevitably result in a conflict, I think that’s a big problem in a lot of families and father daughter relationships that in order to maintain the harmony in the here and now, you just don’t say what needs to be said. It might cause someone to get upset. Well, the problem is these issues, they bottle up within people over time. And so every one of those said, what would you call them, items in order to preserve the relationship in the here and now, it just compounds and eventually it explodes.

Alan Mallory [00:08:44]:
And that’s what tears apart family familial relationships. Now that’s obviously true in spousal relationships. We see that all the time. But there’s plenty of daughters that don’t hardly talk to their fathers when they get married and they move off. And I see that all the time. And I want to, you know, I don’t want that to be reality in my life. No, there’s lots of, of factors you can’t control. But again, I would say maybe I’m giving my dad too many kudos.

Alan Mallory [00:09:08]:
But when I look at his friend groups and so on and there’s just lots of broken family relationships and he doesn’t sugarcoat things, but more than anything, he just makes sure he creates time for doing things with his siblings. He still does. I mean, he’s in his 70s now and I can kind of see in his eyes how much he really appreciates that, that his kids, they keep coming back. I mean, they kind of want to spend time with him and my mother as well. So I would love to able to create the same type of environment where your kids really want to still enjoy spending time with you. And part of the secret to that is get them involved young in things that you also are going to be interested in doing throughout your life now. So it’s kind of a privilege. We all enjoy swimming and biking and mountain biking and kayaking and things like that.

Alan Mallory [00:09:56]:
And so it’s not so much of chore when we’re trying to get together. And I think if I can preserve that, if you aren’t taking an active role when they’re young, and I know some of our family friends, that this is exactly what happened. I mean, the kids kind of go a different direction. The parents are into hiking, the kids are into skateboarding, something like that. Now it’s really tough. And I see in those family relationships how they can hardly get together for Christmas dinner. There’s just no shared interests anymore. And certainly that tears the family apart, but certainly makes it a suboptimal situation to be in as you age.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:29]:
So how are you incorporating that mentality, that mantra into what you’re doing with your daughters?

Alan Mallory [00:10:36]:
If I’ve maybe taken it to the extreme, you might say in terms of the different adventures, but again, it’s kind of a. It dovetails well into the, the work I’m already doing because I’m traveling around. But we lived, for example, for a year on a fifth wheel trailer traveling around the. The southern United States. And every two days or so we were in some new amazing national park, state park. It was during COVID and so the kids were already doing online school. And so in the morning we would do schooling and then in the afternoon we’d be out biking and hiking and swimming and depending where we were. That was just an incredible trip.

Alan Mallory [00:11:15]:
I almost wanted to just stay on the rig and do a whole nother loop. It was so amazing. But those types of things, I mean, whether you like it or not, you’re in close proximity in those in a fifth wheel trailer, for example. So yeah. And then whenever I can, especially the skiing, they’ve really taken to skiing. Both my daughters are just amazing, amazing skiers. And, and it happened quickly too. My eldest, I take her to Whistler and she goes Right down the double black diamonds through the trees and you know, my heart’s skipping a few beats, but again, I tried it.

Alan Mallory [00:11:46]:
Well, she’s got to learn her own limits here. I don’t want her flying off a cliff and perishing. So I’ll kind of be in watching things, but let her own. Make her own decisions. And I remember when we were there, thinking, it was only a couple years ago when I was taking her down the bunny hill at our local ski resort, going behind her to make sure she didn’t kind of get out of control. But I think, did I teach them skiing? I mean, kind of the basics. But more than anything, I just gave them the latitude and the opportunity to figure out where their limits were and develop the skills themselves with a little bit of guidance here and then there when they wanted it. And so that’s just wonderful going on those ski trips now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:29]:
None of us are infallible. We’re humans. We make mistakes. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering better communication with your daughters?

Alan Mallory [00:12:41]:
What is a mistake? Well, I’m probably always making mistakes of some sort. I probably don’t connect well on the emotional side as well as I should. I’m still a guy. I don’t necessarily understand kind of the emotions and things, especially at that. The age when they’re kind of going through puberty and so on. And so probably I could be better at just listening at times. I’m an engineer as well, and so I kind of like, like engineering our way out of these problems. But when there’s, you know, those emotional challenges that we all go through.

Alan Mallory [00:13:14]:
Yeah, I could probably think of a few times where I thought, well, maybe I should have been a little more empathetic to that and just listened and really tried to see things from. From their perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:24]:
That’s definitely something that you have to do. I’ve heard that numerous times from numerous fathers and others about doing more listening than talking at times and. And being able to not come in trying to answer the question or to solve a problem, but let your daughter do what she can to be able to guide, whether it is either a solving conversation or a listening conversation. And that’s something that I wish that I had learned earlier than not.

Alan Mallory [00:13:52]:
Yeah, no, it’s interesting in some of my psychological background, you know, I remember reading this same type of thing over and over again when it comes to psychotherapy. You know, half the time the therapist is not really saying anything. You’re just kind of there nodding, allowing the other individual to kind of work true in their own mind, in their own life. And surprisingly, that has just tremendous benefit. You just, you kind of need to be this sounding board that the individual can’t do it on their own. They need someone there that’s almost doing, you know, it’s doing very little than listening, but it’s tremendously beneficial. So the engineer in me says that makes no sense at all. But having just read about it again and again now, I realize as humans, you know, the human mind is not something that can be reverse engineered very well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]:
And speaking about your background in psychology and now trying to raise kids and raise daughters, talk to me about that. And the juxtaposition between having the understanding of how the mind works but also being able to be the father and being able to be there for your kids in different ways and not bringing too much psychology into it at the same time.

Alan Mallory [00:15:06]:
I went the psychological direction because I had my own mental health challenges in my younger years. I had quite a severe social phobia, an anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder. And so because I’m an engineer by trade, which is the polar opposite of psychology, but I started studying the human mind as I was trying to work through my own challenges. And I think what got me more and more interested in it is it started to work. I developed these different cognitive strategies that would allow me to quickly bring down elevated baseline stress levels, for example. And you know, I’d play a lot of these mental games that I would read about and, and kind of develop for my own purposes that would change my emotional responses in the here and now. And so now there’s a genetic element to the predisposition to these types of mental health challenges. And I kind of see some of them in my daughters, for example.

Alan Mallory [00:15:57]:
And so I do want to be proactive in providing them the tools that are needed. Now I’m careful to even say that, that there’s a genetic element because so many people just, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for them. You know, my father had this, my mot had this, my grandmother had this. I guess it’s inevitable. I will. And I was actually told that many, many times by the different medical professionals that I thought saw my younger years throughout that journey. Basically you have this chemical imbalance that’s leading to this. And almost all the time they just suggested medication.

Alan Mallory [00:16:28]:
And now I don’t want to be too negative on medication because it obviously has a place, you know, when people are really at low points, sometimes anything that will help is the way to go. But I saw it as something that would kind of hide my symptoms rather than get at the root causes. So I never went down the medical pat. I developed cognitive strategies that would work. And I’ve tried to kind of, you know, when I’ve seen my daughters having, you know, who knows if they’re. I think every kind of preteen has that type of thing. They have to develop their own strategies. So I.

Alan Mallory [00:16:59]:
I’m not saying necessarily are they going to be more predisposed than others to this type of thing, but I also just kind of notice when I was going through a mental health journey, you become hyper sensitized to, you know, noticing little twitches and things like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:14]:
Right.

Alan Mallory [00:17:15]:
Because I’m always so concerned about it in myself, or was at the time. So I’ve kind of tried to share those strategies that I’ve developed. Now. I wouldn’t say I’ve shared them very effectively, or at least they haven’t been adopted. And part of it is because I’m, I guess, the dad. You know, often they’re like, oh, dad, maybe that’ll work for you. But this is a different era and I can kind of relate to that because that’s exactly what I said to most people who tried to share strategies with me, including the different psychologists I saw. Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, it’s easy for you to say that.

Alan Mallory [00:17:47]:
You’re not living through this. And so I would mostly brush off the different things they were trying to tell me. And there was always a bit of truth in each one of them. And I really listened. I didn’t really discover some of those, well, let’s call them things that really helped in my life until I kept reading from people that were going through the same challenges that I’d gone through. And. And we’re able to finally figure it out. And it was a combination of self education, learning how your mind works, but also kind of voluntary exposure therapy, and not getting out of your mind, stop fighting yourself, because it’s a response to those symptoms, really, and the way that leads to this rumination that holds us, that perpetuates the disorder.

Alan Mallory [00:18:31]:
So when I try to share those types of strategies, I have to be careful, mindful of how I do it. And if I’m really kind of rushed in my own work, it’s not effective. I think it’s going to be through many years of just kind of, you know, providing little tools here and there. And this is what you should try, maybe give this a try. It worked in my life. And so hopefully I’m able to, you know, just provide what they need and maybe they won’t. Sometimes this is just a natural stage of growing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:00]:
And speaking of the mental health issues that you were dealing with yourself, how do you talk to your own daughters about that experience in relation to building that connection with them?

Alan Mallory [00:19:11]:
Well, in many ways I haven’t in a lot of detail. I’ve tried to encourage my eldest daughter to read my second book because that’s what it’s all about. She finds it too boring because it’s kind of psychological pace and she’s into, you know, romance and adventure stories and that sort of thing. So I haven’t. Wouldn’t say I have been particularly effective in kind of sharing the whole journey and all the those strategies I’ve tried at times, but there hasn’t been a lot of interest in it. It’s kind of. So I don’t know, maybe they’re still a bit too young. Maybe they won’t need those types of strategies.

Alan Mallory [00:19:44]:
I can certainly relate to how I found it frustrating to try to play the right mental movies in my mind, for example. Your mind almost fights back against it. It says, no, that’s not what you need. I mean, this is futile. I mean, I should just analyze more. Well, the constant analysis of your own symptoms certainly just makes things worse and worse.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:04]:
Worse. You’ve had your own passions, your dreams, your things that you have tried to push yourself to do through your life, and the things that you continue to do. Talk to me about how you support your daughters in pursuing their passions and dreams.

Alan Mallory [00:20:17]:
Well, it’s certainly giving them the opportunity. I guess they are still kind of discovering what their passions and dreams are. And I’ve seen that with my eldest. I would say, if anything, my wife and I are just trying to allow her to try different things because she doesn’t seem to have. Have gravitated to particular sport or dream just yet. There certainly have been things that have captured her interest. We had her learning sign language for a while. Right.

Alan Mallory [00:20:44]:
But it let things wane and as they should. I mean, that’s the whole idea. You want to just try as many things as you can and when you’re young so you can kind of see what tends to excite you, I guess, and ideally align your vocation with. With whatever that is. So got them. I play the violin and so I’ve got them in both playing the violin. And that’s just wonderful to me. And that’s was a little frustrating to me in the early years because like I was when I was a kid, I just didn’t want to do it.

Alan Mallory [00:21:10]:
I didn’t want to practice it where you know, spending the time and energy and money in many cases to pursue that. And I had to keep reminding myself, well I gotta. This really isn’t for them. Even though I’d love to be able to play with violin with my daughters, maybe they’ll go a different direction now. In recent years they seem to have taken it a lot more seriously and I think it says they’ve gotten into the different festivals and started playing some fun songs that they recognize and enjoy and so hopefully that that passion will. Will continue to grow within them. But. And we’ve tried lots of different sports too.

Alan Mallory [00:21:46]:
My parents never got me involved in organized sports and we are trying that a little bit. Like my youngest is playing soccer for example and seems to really have taken to that. I guess the challenges with some of those organized sports is it consumes your life and for a lot of the adventures and travel and so on the that that certainly my wife and I like to do. It’s tough if you’re driving every weekend to different hockey tournaments and so on and so on. Maybe plots could argue. Well, maybe there is a bit of a selfish motivator there and I don’t want to be a non stop taxi driver, but I see how it worked with my dad and he got us into running and biking and things that, you know, they were more like they’re kind of individual sports versus large group sports like that and there’s benefits in both. But they didn’t consume our life. And that can be the challenge with.

Alan Mallory [00:22:32]:
And I don’t want to sound like I’m being negative about organized sports. There’s lots of benefits and you learn camaraderie and teamwork and all of that. But I look at some of my friends and they do nothing but drive around to different sports events.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:46]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. You ready? Sure. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Alan Mallory [00:22:58]:
Empowering.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:59]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Alan Mallory [00:23:03]:
I don’t know if I’ve received very much dad advice, but probably if I had to just choose what I’ve discovered, it would be, you know, spend as much quality time with your daughters as you can before it’s too late, before they move on. Every, you know, every older father basically says the same thing. The time flew by.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:21]:
What’s one Activity that you and your daughters love doing together.

Alan Mallory [00:23:25]:
I would say skiing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:26]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Alan Mallory [00:23:31]:
Probably to align your vocation with something that really you’re passionate about.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:37]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Alan Mallory [00:23:41]:
Maybe I don’t have all the answers. I’ve still got a lot to learn.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:44]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Alan Mallory [00:23:51]:
That one’s easy. You’ve got to carve out the time. You’ve got to be doing adventures all the time. The father daughter relationships that fall apart. I think it’s dads that are just too busy with other things. And it’s a tough balance. I mean, you’ve got to also make a living, provide for your family in all of that. But you can’t go back.

Alan Mallory [00:24:10]:
Once the time is gone and you haven’t invested those important hours and days in the relationship. Then was it all worth it? I mean, there’s so many people that have regrets when they get older.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:24]:
So now, Alan, I know you’ve got a lot of things going on. If people want to find out more about you and your books and everything else that you’re doing, where should they go?

Alan Mallory [00:24:34]:
Well, my website’s pretty comprehensive. It’s just Alan Mallory.com a L a N and have a YouTube channel. And I put various videos on there. My electric violin and my different adventures and so on. And yeah, those are probably the. The two places to start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:48]:
And I will tell you, check out his electric violin. He is an amazing electric violin player. And I was really impressed. I didn’t even know that he was playing at the event that I was playing. And then I looked up and I’m like, oh, this is Alan playing. And it was great. So I really encourage you to check out all of that. We’ll put some links in the notes today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:08]:
And Alan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing some of your journey today. I look forward to hearing more about the adventures not only that you have, but the adventures that you’re having with your kids and being able to live a little vicariously through what you’re doing. And I just want to say thank you and I wish you all the best.

Alan Mallory [00:25:25]:
My pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to be build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Alan Mallory [00:25:57]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them? Be the best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can.

Jared Mees on Fatherhood, Vulnerability, and Connection

July 27, 2026 by dadofdivas

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If you’re a dad searching for practical wisdom and heartfelt inspiration on building stronger connections with your daughter, you won’t want to miss the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Jared Mees, father, creative, and co-founder of Tender Loving Empire, for a candid conversation about the joys, challenges, and real-life lessons of fatherhood.

This episode dives deep into what meaningful connection really looks like between dads and daughters. Jared Mees shares his biggest bonding moments, like the summer road trips he’s taken with his daughters since they were little—unstructured adventures that have become cherished family memories. Whether braving uncomfortable camping trips or hours on the road, these simple, unplugged experiences spark genuine connection, laughter, and character-building for all.

As daughters grow up, the balancing act for dads shifts. Jared Mees opens up about learning to give his daughters independence as they get older—recognizing when to lean in, when to back off, and how to be present even when they aren’t seeking attention. For his younger daughter, it’s about reading and drawing together. For his teen, it’s understanding late-night chats and respecting her space.

One of the most powerful parts of the episode centers on vulnerability. Jared Mees shares honestly about a mental health crisis he faced and how it affected his family. Learning to admit mistakes, say “Daddy was wrong,” and seek real support reshaped his relationship with his daughters. His openness models strength and resilience—and shows that kids benefit deeply from witnessing their parents’ growth and recovery.

Other themes include the importance of encouraging kids’ passions without taking over, calling out the specific things that make them unique, and navigating the emotional transitions as daughters become teens. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Jared Mees also discuss letting go of ego, embracing imperfection, and being consistent in small, everyday ways.

If you’re ready to hear authentic stories and actionable advice about being the dad your daughter needs—through life’s ups, downs, and transitions—be sure to tune in. Head to dadanddaughterconnection.com, catch the latest episode, and start building those lifelong bonds, one day at a time.

Don’t miss this uplifting and honest look at fatherhood—listen now!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together, to work on identifying ways in which we can build those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. It is going to be a journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]:
Having those perfect relationships is going to come in ebbs and flows. It’s not always going to be easy, but there are things that you can do to make it a little bit better one day at a time. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists to be able to give you some tools for your toolbox, for you to be able to learn, to grow and to be able to be that dad that you want to be showing up for your daughter every day. That’s why every week, I love being able to bring you different dance with different experiences to help you to be able to see fatherhood in a little bit of a different way and to be able to see how they are fathering their own daughters, to be able to help you in your journey. Today we got another great guest. Jared Mees is with us today, and Jared is someone I’ve known for a number of years. Jared was on another podcast that I used to have called Dads with Daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]:
And at that time, it was about four years ago, we were chatting about some music that he was making with his daughters, and his daughters keep growing as they always do. So I’m excited to be able to have him back, to be able to talk about how things are going today and be able to check back in. Jared, thanks so much for being here today.

Jared Mees [00:02:20]:
Thanks so much, Chris. Appreciate it. Excited to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here today, and I always loved starting the conversation because this show is all about connection and how you build those meaningful connections with your daughters. And I. I know you have two daughters yourself. What would you say is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made it so special?

Jared Mees [00:02:41]:
Yeah, I have two lovely daughters. Piper is 8 and she’s almost 9. And July is 14 going on 24. So we’re. I’m super blessed to have them in my life. And I always thought I’d be a dad of a son or something before I had kids. But then, now that I have two daughters, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Of course, they’re definitely lights of my life.

Jared Mees [00:03:03]:
They’re both totally individual, different human beings, and they both need completely different things. And I try to provide it every day, whether I feel like it or not. And, you know, some days I succeed better than others, as we all do. But I would say, to answer your question, the biggest things that we do together are these road trips that we take every summer. Ever since COVID when Piper was two or three, two and a half, and July was eight, we’ve taken summer road trips to my hometown in Colorado from Oregon, where I live. So just driving around with them and exploring, mostly the western United States and just seeing things, camping. A lot of the. The funnest times are just when there’s no real plan and we just get into something.

Jared Mees [00:03:53]:
We’re on the beach or we’re having a conversation around a fire, or just all the little things that happen along the way. But the road tr. Definitely, we’ve taken one every summer since 2020, and they’re definitely a way to connect. And when I look back, I’m like, those are precious times. And, you know, they can be challenging. And sometimes the challenges, when you’re away from your home and you’re uncomfortable, you know, camping, they think they don’t like camping, but every time we go camping, they have a great time. They can be, you know, character building. And so I remember those fondly.

Jared Mees [00:04:29]:
We’re going on one this summer. This summer is going to be easy going. We’re just going to go down the Oregon coast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:34]:
Those moments are so important, and they’re going to be things that your daughters are going to think back on, remember fondly as they get older. Whether it’s the. The fun times or the squabbles in the car, the moments where you pull off the road to be able to see something cool, you know, it’s going to be those memories that they’re going to relate to. So it’s. It’s so exciting to hear those things. Now, I know you said your daughters are getting older and, and as your daughters do get older, as all of us that have daughters get older, there is the struggle that we go through as dads, which is allowing for us to be able to help our daughters to find that balance, that balance in having independence while still being who they are. How do you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into her own person?

Jared Mees [00:05:26]:
That’s a great question. And I don’t know that I really think about it as it’s happening, but there’s a lot of connection that I feel like I try to foster every day that just kind of lets them know that I’m there and that I’m around and present for them. I try to be there every day when they get home from school, there when they leave for school. And I think just the presence allows me to be just plugged into what they’re going through on a hour to hour, day to day, week to week basis that I don’t know, there’s. That ends up. It makes it where I don’t really get in their way so much. I would say we have a lot of things going on and so trying to just make space for the small things that they want to do. Like my 8 year old wants to play and you know, you don’t always want to play, but you get down on the floor with them for 20 minutes and it means the world to them.

Jared Mees [00:06:20]:
And then my 14 year old wants space. And so sometimes that’s just like coming in, saying hi and being like, I love you, what are you up to? And then if they don’t want to talk, then just letting them have that moment and then eventually they come around and they want to talk. I noticed that my 14 year old really gets talkative right before bed and right before she goes to sleep, which is kind of like the time you want them to be winding down. And so just being around for the moments that they want you and then being okay when they don’t want you. And I think that’s where I’m not like starved for attention myself. Keeping myself really trying to be my own best friend where I’m not like trying to just go get attention from them keeps me from like being too hovery. That makes sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:05]:
It does make sense. And I think each of us has to find that balance for ourselves and, and also allow for our kids to be able to have that space that they need to be able to be who they are. And that becomes hard as they are transitioning, especially transitioning from that phase where they Always want to be around you to that phase where they’re like, nope, I need my space, I need to be away and I close my door, whatever it may be. But yeah, I completely get it. And I remember times where I’ve gone through that myself. As you think about your daughters and what you’ve done to be able to really work on that bond with them, what are some intentional ways you think that you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters even through challenging times?

Jared Mees [00:07:50]:
Well, I think that I have a. We’ve got things that we focus on together on a day to day basis. My 8 year old is learning to read and so reading with her every day, it’s very basic. But reading, drawing, making art, it’s just day to day easygoing stuff that doesn’t feel like, oh, I’m building a bond with my daughter. But over time it kind of builds this repetition of like, this is what we do together and kind of gives them confidence in that they can, they’re developing skills and you’re watching them develop skills and encouraging them to be better while like really noting the improvement that they’ve made or noting something specific. Even if you don’t, you know, have the time to like look at like something small that they’ve made that they’re excited about, you can like, I always have the time to just be like, oh, that’s cool. I like this thing. And I think that’s like, I like this specific drawing of this the way that you did the cat’s whiskers or something versus just like, oh, that’s nice honey.

Jared Mees [00:08:52]:
And so I’ve really tried to like, because I don’t have all the time to sit down and praise them for everything they do, but there is an element of just calling out specifics of something that they’ve done that makes them feel seen. And that’s specifically my 8 year old. But you know, with my 14 year old I do it as well. And so I think that builds like the bond of like, I’m seen, I’m, I’m noted, I’m known. Even if it’s not a big time investment, just like calling out specifics of something that they’re doing. So that’s just like a little thing I do. I think I learned that from a book too. That said, even if you don’t have time, just noting a specific will make the connection for the kid that you are listening.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:34]:
Let me dig a little bit more on that because you know, showing them that they’re seen is important and I think One of the other things that I’ve noticed is that it’s so important with daughters to be able to let them know that they are both valued and heard. How do you show your daughters that they’re valued and heard?

Jared Mees [00:09:52]:
Well, my daughters are pretty loud and gregarious and like, in your face. And so it’s like, they are definitely heard all the time. I think it comes down to, like, important moments where they’re trying to say. It’s really like during moments of friction. That is probably where it really becomes like, am I being heard or not? Because we listen to them all the time talk about whatever they’re talking about. But it’s like there’s the moments where they need something specific or like, I didn’t. I don’t think that you did this. That you vacuumed even though I asked you to vacuum is like, I did vacuum.

Jared Mees [00:10:29]:
Well, you need to vacuum better. Let me show you how to do it. It’s like, I already know how to do it. You already showed me. And it was like, well, then why didn’t you do it correctly? And like, there’s these moments of altercation that stepping back and not allowing the heat of the moment to get in the way of. Of what they’re trying to tell you. You know, even if they, you think, you know, they did a bad job vacuuming, hearing out that they think that they did a good job and that they’re, you know, they did try and like, acknowledging that while then continuing to offer the input of how to do it better, I think is. Those are like the difficult moments, I think is really where you have to focus on making sure that they’re heard while also not letting them off the hook.

Jared Mees [00:11:16]:
Because I think it’s important to instill that kids know quality is necessary for them to be like a fully fleshed human. They’re going to have to be able to do things in a quality manner. But I don’t know if that makes sense. But it’s ultimately during moments of altercation or friction, allowing some space for them to say what they need to say while also not backing down from the truth that you’re trying to get across. And that can be a fine line. That can be difficult. I think as a man, it’s easy to get angry in those moments. And so you really have to keep your eye on what you want to get accomplished in the conversation versus being right or not being talked to in a sass with sass or anything.

Jared Mees [00:11:58]:
It’s like allowing what they need to say to get said, but Then knowing that the end of it, it’s going to be a. There’s going to be the. Some sort of, like, lesson is going to get taught, and you’re going to feel okay about it. I feel like dads and feel like they need to be heard, too, you know, because I live in a family with three women, and so it’s easy to, like, just have it be a lot of alternating energies and a lot of talking about disparate subjects. And, you know, you can kind of get lost in that sometimes. So it’s important to feel like you’re heard as well, you know, in those

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:31]:
moments that are challenging. I know that there are times as fathers where we’re not going to make all the right choices. We’re going to make mistakes along the way. There’s going to be errors of judgment. What’s a mistake that you made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

Jared Mees [00:12:51]:
Oh, I don’t think I’ve ever made a mistake. No, it’s. There’s mistakes, you know, get made all the time. And I think that the one thing that I’ve. I’ve learned to say is. And this, like, somehow fixes it all the time is just saying daddy was wrong and just saying it plainly and quickly. And it really does just, like, help the whole thing. And you have to swallow your pride a little bit to say it, but once it’s out of your mouth, everything is like, all the tension goes down.

Jared Mees [00:13:21]:
Once you’ve made a mistake, you say, daddy was wrong. And it’s generally the mistakes I make are in, like I said before, probably letting my anger or, like, my agitation get the better of me in a specific situation because I have a certain set of emotions going on that my kids are not privy to. And I decide to snap at one thing and say, oh, you didn’t do this or you didn’t do that. You didn’t do the thing I asked. And then they say, no, we did. And then I’ve just spent all this time yammering on and getting upset about something that I was just wrong about. And so those are the moments, like, think of growth for me really is like, just saying daddy was wrong. And I think it’s hard for men to admit they’re wrong, but it just feels good once you say it, because it just lets the pressure off.

Jared Mees [00:14:13]:
Like, we don’t always have to be right or get it right, but it feels good to kids to, like, understand that, you know, you’re a human who makes mistakes. And I think trying to hold up some sort of standard, gold standard where you never make mistakes or you’re never wrong or even the illusion of that is just too much pressure on a human. And so it’s kind of nice to, to be able to just admit that and admit it up front and quickly. And it just lets a lot of the air out of things. It’s like we think sometimes that if we say we’re wrong that like our life’s going to end or that we’re going to be less of a man or just there’s some worthiness factor that’s going to enter, but you know, that’s just a lie. And so just quickly copying to things that you’re wrong about is really helpful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:00]:
Definitely. And I know that there’s plenty of times where I think being vulnerable will definitely open things up and allow your daughters to be able to see not only you in a different way, but see relationships in a different way and allow for them to feel differently about the way in which they kind of maneuver through life. So I know that you’ve done a lot of really cool things with your, your daughters and pushing them and encouraging them. You have your own passions and dreams. You have a lot of things with music that going on. You’ve done music with your, with your daughters along the way. Talk to me what you have done over your daughter’s lifetimes to be able to support them in pursuing their passions and dreams.

Jared Mees [00:15:41]:
Yeah, I mean, both my kids dance. They’re really into dance and acting. So it’s, it’s a lot of just driving to and from you. Just the work a day, driving, being in the car, taking them to the thing they want to do. And it’s. You don’t always want to do it. But the barometer I use is like, they’re happier when I pick them up than when I drop them off. And that is worth doing it.

Jared Mees [00:16:03]:
And like, I say that to myself and I say it to other people like, oh man, it’s so much work doing this driving for dance. But it’s like the happiness that you see on their faces when you pick them up from the thing they got to do, that you got to provide the money and time and effort and the car and the gas, et cetera. It’s worth it when you see that they are happier and consistently happier and like, that’s what ultimately makes a happy life. And then also, I don’t know, my 8 year old’s working on a play. She really wants to write a play and so she can’t really type or know how to like format a script or anything, but she knows exactly what she wants the play to be about and she has all these big creative dreams. So like we recently got her play from like in her head to. On a first draft and then we went through it and made it better and better and my 14 year old got involved and so she’s gonna be. We got it all printed out recently and we have.

Jared Mees [00:17:02]:
She had, they had picked the kids, they want to be in the play. And so my 8 year old is going to be directing it and my 14 year old is producing it and we’re going to put it on at the warehouse that we have and just kind of staying out of it and letting them. My 14 year old has a phone now, so she’s texting all the parents to get all the kids to show up for the rehearsals and you know, they’re working on all the costumes and stuff. So just like helping out with stuff like that and being involved while also not like taking it on as like my own project and kind of like letting it be whatever quality it’s going to be, it’s been fun. It’s like in a lot of times I would have jumped in and like made it this super extra over the top thing, but then it kind of becomes my project. It’s nice to sit back and have it be completely theirs. But providing the tech expertise to get things printed and to like share numbers with peop, you know, kind of the executive producer role, I suppose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:01]:
You know, one of the things that I know that we talked about at the very beginning was that over the last couple of years you had a bit of a scare, you had a bit of a mental health issue that you were dealing with and you had to maneuver through that period, that period in your life with your kids. Can you talk to me about that? And some of the things that you had to do to be able to not only get yourself in a good place, but also to help your children to understand what was going on and help them to better maneuver through that time.

Jared Mees [00:18:35]:
Yeah, you know, I’m an open book about it, but I, I had a mental health issue basically. Like they used to call them nervous breakdowns, but it’s basically a mental health event where I was not really able to function in the capacity that I normally could function because my nervous system basically was shutting down. And so for about three months I was not really the person that, that I normally was. And while I was recovering and this was a Period of basically getting clean and getting sober. I wasn’t a huge alcoholic or anything, but I definitely, I smoked weed every day for 15 years just to deal with my anxiety issue. And so I, when I stopped doing that because I wanted to have a different modality for dealing with my anxiety, there was a transitional period basically brought on a long term anxiety attack slash nervous breakdown. So the transition to getting clean really was difficult. And you know, with my 14 year old I was able to discuss it a little bit because she knew that I smoked weed and we live in Oregon and it’s a very accepted thing but it was, you know, something I had to tell her.

Jared Mees [00:19:46]:
Like I’m doing this to get better, worse. But in the meantime it’s really difficult for me to just deal with things I normally deal with. Noise was a big problem, really difficult to deal with noise for like nine or 10 weeks. And so just being in a house in a normal volume house was really difficult. And so I was like, I had to just explain that I was going through a difficult time. And they’ve gone through difficult times. They go through difficult times every day, every week. And so they understand difficult times but they didn’t understand, I think that I had to go through a difficult time and they didn’t understand why it was taking so long.

Jared Mees [00:20:24]:
And so I was just having, just having to explain the nature of what I was going through in a way, way that they could understand. It was difficult. It wasn’t easy to. Because you can’t really get too clinical and detailed because they kind of tune out. So it was really just about like I just need things to be simple and you know, I’m getting sick in my brain a little bit but my brain’s gonna get better. That’s kind of what we had to tell our 8 year old. And then my 14 year old, I was a little more upfront with her about the, the way things were working in reality. But by and large they were the North Star in the end of it all.

Jared Mees [00:21:01]:
You know, I was doing this for them to be better, not worse. And I feel like I’m definitely a better dad today than I was. I wasn’t bad before, but it was like I’m a better, I’m more confident person and I like myself better. And I think that shines through to the way I parent now. So it’s been a positive thing for them overall. But the transitional period, it was sad. It was difficult for me to try to note. I couldn’t give them what I normally give them.

Jared Mees [00:21:30]:
And you Know, but knowing that it was the best I could do at that moment and allowing that to be okay, that was what I had to focus on, that this was okay and I wasn’t messing them up. And for them to see someone go through something hard and to be better, because they really noted, oh, you’re better. I just noticed we’re doing all sorts of loud stuff and you don’t have any problem with it. And, like, that was really awesome when that came around for them. And they just, like, noticed that I had gone through something at hard and how I dealt with it. And I don’t know, maybe they’ll remember it. They’ll probably remember it as they grow up, but I don’t think there was hardly any moments that were, like, traumatic. There was a few times where I yelled because I was just, like, overwhelmed by my own emotions and the noise.

Jared Mees [00:22:12]:
And like, those were the times that kind of, like, necessitated conversations afterwards. But I don’t think it was. They were pretty quick and dealt with. And I have a support. My wife was super supportive and my extended family was super supportive. My friends were super supportive. So it was. I was able to get away when I needed to get away and deal with my own stuff, away from the audience of my family when that.

Jared Mees [00:22:39]:
When that needed to happen. So I really am thankful to them for, you know, being the North Star and being the guiding light for, like, this is why I’m doing this and why I’m going through this difficult thing. It’s not just for me. It’s for me first and for them second. But definitely they were, like, a huge important thing for getting me through it. I don’t know. I could talk about this for, like, hours and have. Obviously.

Jared Mees [00:23:00]:
But that’s Cliff Notes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:01]:
And what would you say to other dads that may be struggling with their own mental health issues and maybe they’re not getting the support that they need at this point.

Jared Mees [00:23:10]:
Um, gosh, say like that. Really examining at the bottom of it, like, what you need and whether or not you’re getting what you need and. And knowing that every day doesn’t have to be so hard. You know, often when you’re dealing with a mental health issue, it’s because there’s something underneath it that is basically just not working. And then we string it together and jury rig our lives so that it will work, and it’s often with substances and that really just examining what is it that’s not working and taking, like, a moment and knowing that just like, admitting it doesn’t mean you have to fix it. But admitting it is definitely a first step, and then deciding what you can do to fix it incrementally, if possible. And if you can fix something incrementally with discipline and with small changes, that’s definitely, I think, a better way than trying to go cold turkey like I did, and then, like, having to fall off the rails. But, like, the body keeps the score.

Jared Mees [00:24:17]:
And eventually you will have to reckon with the thing that is not working in your life, whatever it is. And to reckon with it slowly and incrementally over time is much easier than just having it reckon with you one day and having to deal with it all at once, one day. So I would say it’s just being honest with yourself about what you need. And it really takes time. Taking time away from your family and taking time away from the stress of life and examining what it is you’re doing and why you’re doing it and what is important to you and what you want to do better and what you think you’re doing great. And like, that’s probably through a journal or some sort of, like, cataloging of your life in an organized way can be really powerful. But we often don’t take time for ourselves. As fathers, we’re kind of the ox that has to just continually pull.

Jared Mees [00:25:15]:
And we think that to take time or to not to admit that we are not strong is a failure in and of itself. And I think it’s ultimately the opposite. To, like, take time and to admit that we need help, even if it’s just to ourselves, is super powerful and actually makes us twice as strong. And I think that there’s a current in, like, men’s health that is moving that direction, that examining your problems makes you stronger, not weaker. And I’m excited for that because I really think that a lot of men suffer needlessly just because they don’t think that. They think that if they admit they need help or that they aren’t as strong as they put on, that they are, that somehow that’s going to be the end of something. And really, it’s just the end of your ego. And your ego dying or being minimized is actually a really positive thing for your.

Jared Mees [00:26:14]:
For your life, for being a father, for being a provider, for being a man. It’s like, it’s super important that that happens. It feels like the opposite in the moment, but it’s really important that that happens at some point in your life. I think.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:28]:
No, I think that was great. And I guess one of the other things that I was Thinking about is you talked earlier about the fact that your daughter is now transitioned into middle school and she’s moved into this. You know, you were dealing with your own issues. She’s now going into middle school and there’s a lot of things that happen in middle school, a lot of changes that happen in the lives of our daughters. Talk to me about that transition for you and balancing supporting her going through this, but also dealing with the changes that come with that and maybe the interplay with the mental health challenges that you were going through.

Jared Mees [00:27:02]:
Yeah, you know, as my daughter turned 13, I was kind of going through the mental health transition and I just cried and cried like a baby for God, like an hour one night. And it was just like kind of mourning the transition that like my baby was gone, my little girl was gone, and not feeling like I knew the new person that they were. And it’s not so black and white like that, but it felt very black and white at that moment and that it was like a new person had been placed where the old and the old one had been taken away. And I think it was important to have that moment of like acknowledging the transition because I think often the transitions are kind of just glossed over as we go through life and that we don’t get the moments to really acknowledge internally what’s happening for ourselves. Like, of course we have birthday parties and quinceaneras and bat mitzvahs and whatnot. But there’s gotta be an internal reckoning with the transition that’s happening so that you can then treat them in the now and be like communicating with them in the now and not have this constant mourning or sadness that it’s time has passed me by and where did my little girl go? And I think there’s a element of letting that out and acknowledging it. And that’s what these coming of age parties are supposed to be about. But I think often fathers don’t really do the emotional work to truly transition for themselves and the way, and like the way they’re thinking of their daughters.

Jared Mees [00:28:42]:
And I think it’s healthy to have some sort of internal moment with a journal or with yourself, just to like acknowledge that you tried your best for them, you did your best for them when they were little, and now they’re. You’re going to do their best for them as they’re this age and every age after that, you know, and then it’s really. Nothing has changed in terms of your commitment to the person, but it’s like your commitment to them being this and not that I think is important to them, really living in the now, in the present. This can take some pressure off, at least for me. It’s like taking some pressure off just having some sort of like internal transition moment, like emotional acknowledgement, like a ritual or something that is yours, that is specific to you and feels right to you rather than this, you know, these big outward public displays. Those are great and those are gonna happen, but it’s like, did you really get what you needed out of that? Did you really acknowledge it internally to where you can now transition with her and not just continue to think you have a three year old when you have a 13 year old and be frustrated that you don’t and feel like the time where did all the time go and feel sad. There’s so many emotions that come up that we press down, you know, that are nostalgic memories and et cetera. And it’s like those need to be acknowledged.

Jared Mees [00:30:05]:
It’s important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:06]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call Our Dad Connection 6, which are six more questions that delve deeper into you, you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jared Mees [00:30:14]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:14]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Jared Mees [00:30:19]:
Joyful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:19]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Jared Mees [00:30:24]:
Take life one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:26]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Jared Mees [00:30:30]:
Let’s say drawing. We all like to draw together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Jared Mees [00:30:37]:
Let’s say to love yourself and love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:40]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Jared Mees [00:30:45]:
Life is long and there’s lots of transitions and to take time with each period because it will soon be gone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Jared Mees [00:31:02]:
I would say letting your own ego go and letting expectations you may have on yourself go and just being present with your kids as often as you can in small ways is important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]:
Well, Jared, I just want to say thank you. If people want to find out more about you and what you’re doing, where should they go?

Jared Mees [00:31:24]:
They can visit tenderlovingempire.com that’s my business. I run with my wife that we sell the art of 500 different artists and we run a record label here in Portland, Oregon. And or my Instagram is just aradmeese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:38]:
Well, again, Jared, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for being so honest and open. About the the highs, the lows, and everything in between of fatherhood and your own journey and being a father. And I wish you all the best.

Jared Mees [00:31:54]:
Thanks so much, Chris. I appreciate you having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:56]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:32:27]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the want you now Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Building Unbreakable Bonds: Chris Singleton on Fatherhood and Love

July 20, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

In the latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes an extraordinary guest: former professional athlete, best-selling author, and inspirational speaker Chris Singleton. This heartfelt conversation dives deep into fatherhood, resilience, and the profound ways dads can nurture strong, confident daughters, even amidst life’s toughest challenges.

Chris Singleton opens up about the joy and responsibility of raising his young daughter, sharing intimate stories—like their first daddy-daughter dance—that remind us how essential it is to be present and cherish each moment. He emphasizes intentional fathering, recognizing that quality time matters more than quantity and that even simple routines, like reading together or affirming your child’s beauty, play a vital role in building self-esteem and resilience. As Chris Singleton says, “Your presence, it matters. Even when you think they don’t see you there… your presence, it matters” 28:18.

A powerful part of the conversation addresses difficult topics: teaching compassion, navigating conversations about differences, and helping children process a sometimes divided world. Inspired by his personal journey through tragedy and the loss of his mother, Chris Singleton shares how he uses children’s books and open dialogue to foster empathy and curiosity in his children. He encourages dads to model respect for all, even when encountering different beliefs or backgrounds, and to proactively address hard questions rather than shying away from them.

Other highlights include practical advice for approaching conversations about race, mistakes Chris Singleton made early in fatherhood, and strategies for raising compassionate, curious kids in the age of social media. Vulnerability plays a central role; letting children see emotion and grief, he explains, not only builds trust but also reassures them that it’s okay to feel and share openly.

Ultimately, the episode offers a hopeful message: embracing love, forgiveness, and open-mindedness at home can prepare the next generation to lead with unity and understanding.

To every dad looking to grow deeper connections with his daughter—and to anyone seeking inspiration in today’s world—this episode is a must-listen. Hear the full story and practical tools by tuning in to The Dad and Daughter Connection—it may just change the way you parent, and the way you see the world.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:53]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to talk together, to work together to help you to be able to make those meaningful connections with your daughters one step at a time. It’s not always going to be easy. It takes time, it takes effort, and you do have to work at it. But it is so important to put in that work and to know that putting in that work is you are going to be able to build those connections and build those true bonds with your daughters that you want to have every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that are offering you an opportunity, an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow and to put some, I’m going to say, tools in your toolbox that you can take with you. And you may not take everything, but my hope is that you have an opportunity to be able to take something, whether it’s one thing, five things, 10 things that you’re like, ah, that’s something that I’m connecting to. And, and today we got another great guest. Chris Singleton is with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:
And Chris is a former professional athlete who played for the Chicago Cubs. And following the loss of his mother in a racially motivated mass shooting, Chris has now become a nationally renowned inspirational speaker and best selling author. And he travels all over the United States and beyond to be able to spread a message of love, of compassion, and of really helping others to be able to think, think differently about the world around us and how we talk to one another, work with one another. But even beyond that, he’s a father of three and he’s got one daughter. So we’re going to be talking about his own experience in being a father to a daughter. And we’ll also talk about some of the journey that he’s been on and some of the things that he has been doing with his own kids to be able to help them to live in the world that we’re in today. So I’m really excited to have him here. Chris Singh, thank you so much for being here today.

Chris SIngleton [00:02:53]:
Absolutely, man. I’m grateful to be on talking about my baby girl. Girl, love it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:57]:
Well, I’m really excited to be able to be here today and to talk to you. I know we just saw each other at a recent conference that you were speaking at, and this is a topic that you don’t always get to talk a lot about. You mentioned your daughter in your speech, but I love it when we get to delve into fatherhood. And I guess first and foremost, I wanted to ask you about that relationship with your daughter. And I know she’s still young, but in her life so far and in your life with her so far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Chris SIngleton [00:03:28]:
Yeah, I think one of the most meaningful moments thus far is the first daddy daughter dance we did. You know, she’s almost three. And so at two years old, that daddy daughter dance and she was actually dancing. I was like, oh, it’s just going to be just her standing around and no, she was getting after dancing and wiggling and we had a great time. And there was a point where, you know, one of the older girls at their school started dancing with her and I just saw her. I was getting like a little emotional. Like, man, this is what a blessing it is that I get to be her dad and not only protect and provide for, but just be her friend. As she grows older and I’m looking at her, I just started getting emotional.

Chris SIngleton [00:04:06]:
So that was probably a moment where I actually stopped and just felt the moment. Because so frequently you have these experiences with your kids and you’re just like, oh, it’s an experience. You don’t really stop and just take it all in. And that’s one that I know in 20 years I’m going to remember that first daddy daughter dance that we did and how I was getting emotional. Like, man, how cool is that? I get to be her dad. So that was one so far.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:27]:
And like you said, your daughter is still young, but I’m sure that there are some ways in which some intentional things that you’re trying to do to be able to strengthen your bond with your daughter. So talk to me about some of those things that you tried to do intentionally with your daughter to be able to build that Unique bond with her versus what you’re doing with your sons.

Chris SIngleton [00:04:46]:
Yeah. And I think it’s super important because my boys, I coach them in baseball, I coach them in sports. And so she sees me doing this. We know. Even when we do bedtime, sometimes we’ll take the boys to bed first, and they’ll be talking about me coaching them. They’ll be talking about something baseball. And then my dad said. Then my daughter says something about, hey, Daddy, what about me with ballerina? Or what about me with this? And I’m like, you know, daddy loves that too, sweetie.

Chris SIngleton [00:05:09]:
And, you know, I can’t wait for you to go to your ballerina class on Friday. And so we have those same moments where it’s like, yes, I have my time with my boys, and I kind of combine the time with the boys sometimes, but I need to do a little better about splitting them up. Hey, older son get some time. Younger son gets some time. And most of the time, it’s like, hey, Daddy, with the boys. And then it’s like, daddy with baby girl. And whether it’s just reading with her the other night, I noticed it because I didn’t notice this with my boys. How.

Chris SIngleton [00:05:33]:
And I don’t know if you know, the stereotype is girls learn so much quicker. They’re so much smarter than boys when they’re young. But my daughter was literally sitting down in her. In the rocking chair that we usually sit in before bedtime, and she was flipping through this book as if she knew exactly what she was doing at 2 years old, and she’s pretending like she’s reading, and I’m sitting there smiling at her, and it was a beautiful moment. I’ve got this nickname for my daughter, and of course, I told you guys at the conference that I call her Chocolate Chip. And so every time I’ll say, hey, who’s my Chocolate Chip? And she’s like, I am. And I said, do you love dad? She’s like, yes, I love Daddy. And so we have these little small moments.

Chris SIngleton [00:06:07]:
But I know one day when she’s a little older, I might be dropping her off at school. And I’m like, who’s Daddy Chocolate Chip? She’s like, dad, come on. So I got to cherish these moments right now. And I surely, and I truly am

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:17]:
now, no dad is infallible. We all make mistakes. We’re humans. And I guess even this could be with your sons, too. But with your daughter, what’s a mistake that you’ve made? And what did you learn about fostering positive connections? With your daughter?

Chris SIngleton [00:06:33]:
Yeah. I think the biggest mistake so far is just thinking when I’m spending time with all three of my kids, that I’m spending time with every single one of them. And I didn’t do that with my daughter. I’m picking my boys up from school, we’re taking them to the batting cage real quick, Then we’re going back to get baby girl. Or it’s like, hey, my middle child likes to play golf, and so I’ll go play golf with him. I’ll let the oldest stay at home. And I’m spending quality time one on one with my older boys. And I wasn’t doing that with my baby girl.

Chris SIngleton [00:06:57]:
And my excuse, because we have to give ourselves excuses. I used to say, man, she’s so young. Can I do with her? And I realized you can do literally everything with her, too. And so I started to try to be more intentional about saying, hey, maybe this Friday I’m picking baby girl up early, and I’m taking her with me. Whether I’m riding around to the bank or whatever it is, just having her with me, spending that quality time, not just all three kids, but just with her. And I think that was probably a mistake I made early, is just having the excuse. Well, she’s so young, I don’t know if I can do anything with her. And I realized once I started bringing her with me, it doesn’t matter.

Chris SIngleton [00:07:28]:
You can take her just about anywhere. Even if we’re on the golf course, she’d like to just sit in the golf cart drinking juice box by herself and watch Ms. Rachel. So, like, sometimes it’s just bringing her with me and not using the excuse, oh, well, she’s too young. I think that’s a mistake that I made early on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:43]:
Every one of us, as fathers of daughters, are doing what we can to be able to try to help our girls to feel both valued and heard. What have you done thus far to help your daughter feel that in your relationship to date?

Chris SIngleton [00:07:59]:
Yeah. I think every kid, but especially daughters, they find their confidence, they find their beauty, and they’ll ask daddy or mommy, hey, do I look beautiful? And my daughter is obsessed with those words. And so every morning when we get baby girl dressed and we’ll put clothes on her, she doesn’t like it, she’ll let us know immediately if she doesn’t like the clothes. So we already know at a young age she’s going to be some type of fashionista. And so she will put on her clothes. If it’s not a dress, she doesn’t want it. So we have to change her clothes and put on a dress and we finish and we do her hair, whatever it is, she’ll always give a little twirl and say, daddy, do I look beautiful? And I think she’s asking for that recognition. And I tell her every time I say, baby girl, you’re beautiful before, and yes, you’re beautiful right now.

Chris SIngleton [00:08:41]:
And so just hearing those words, I think is so important. Building that self esteem, knowing, hey, in my faith, I’m fearfully and wonderfully made, like God made me the way that I am, and I’m beautiful on the inside and out. And just hearing that from dad, I think it hits deep. Because yes, she asked mom, but she always runs to me and asks me to, hey, daddy, do I look beautiful? And she does a little twirl and I say, baby girl, you look so beautiful. And you see that smile, you see that confidence. And I never want that confidence to waver. And so as kids grow, there’s middle school where kids use mean words for no reason, but it’s just part of the gig. And there will be a time where I’m sure somebody’s going to say something about my daughter that, you know, isn’t the nicest thing.

Chris SIngleton [00:09:19]:
And my hope is that she’s heard from her mom, from her dad, from her family, like, I am beautiful, I am amazing, I am smart, I am courageous, I am all these different things. And so if she hears otherwise, it should be in one ear and out the other, because she knows she is. And that’s what I’m trying to instill at this young age. And hopefully she gets older. I’m sure there’s going to be still be those parts of her where she’s, you know, crying because X, Y and Z happened. But I want her to know deep down inside, hey, I’ve always heard who I am as a person. And so if somebody has something else to say about me, that’s a problem with them and not with me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:52]:
I mentioned at the beginning that you speak all over the world. You have been bringing a message of love, your neighbor, to the world in many different ways. And your message of love, your neighbor really came out of an incredibly personal tragedy. How has becoming a father changed the way you think about that message today?

Chris SIngleton [00:10:14]:
Yeah, well, I think initially the only reason why I started writing children’s books is because I’m thinking, how do I even tell my own kids about my story? It’s very traumatic. It’s very glass half empty type of story. Not message but story, I mean, just losing my mom the way that I did and having to tell your kids that, you know, unfortunately there are some people that hate others because of the chemical in their skin that makes them the color that they are or telling your kids, hey, unfortunately, there’s people that judge others based on their first language and all these different things that they’re hard conversations to have with your kids, especially when there’s tragedy involved. And so writing children’s books is the way that I said I can talk about tough things in a non traumatic way. And so yes, there’s going to be conflict in my children’s book, but it’s not conflict of losing a life. It’s a conflict of maybe a kid gets picked on because the clothes that they wear or maybe their hair is a little different or maybe they wear glasses or whatever it may be and so they feel a little different. But in the end of my stories, they’re always celebrated, no matter where they’re from, what they look like or what makes them different. And sharing this with my kids, sharing it with kids all across the country in the world, kids start to look at each other a little different, like, oh man, okay, so we all have something that makes us different.

Chris SIngleton [00:11:17]:
Maybe my grandma does raise me, that makes me a little different. I don’t have my mom and dad raising me. But you know what, that’s okay. This person’s a little different because maybe they’re on the spectrum or maybe they wear glasses or I’ve even had kids would say, hey, Chris, I’ve got six fingers and I thought I was the weirdest kid in the world until you showed that everybody has something that makes them different. Now, you know what? I’m not ashamed of my difference. It’s what makes me who I am. And so sharing this with my kids, sharing it in children’s books is the easiest way for me to talk about tough things in a non traumatic way. And it’s been a blessing to be able to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]:
As I thought about that, as parents, many of us want to raise our kids who are compassionate and empathetic, but we also know that the world can be divided. What would you say are some practical ways that dads can intentionally model love and respect at home?

Chris SIngleton [00:12:01]:
Yeah, I think first and foremost, I think there needs to be. You have to teach your kids there’s a certain level of respect we have for everyone. In doing so, you say, hey, this is maybe not the way that we do it in our family, but some families out there do it that Way. Now, you don’t compromise on the things that you believe in and things that you hold near and dear to your heart and your morals, but you acknowledge that, hey, to your daughter, like, hey, this is the way that some people do it. Now, we don’t think that way, we don’t believe that way, but we still going to respect them because that’s how they think, and that’s how they believe. I think having that conversation early on and letting them know you don’t have to compromise on who you are to just acknowledge that somebody else does something different is powerful. So doing that, I think it’s been really cool to see that in the progression. And then it also, when your kids ask you questions, you got to be able to answer them, because even at a young age, it’s like, hey, well, dad, what are they saying? It’s like, oh, well, that’s Mandarin, right? That’s not what we speak, but that’s a language out there.

Chris SIngleton [00:12:55]:
Or you see families that look totally different than yours. You’re like, well, dad, what is that? And you’re like, well, hey, that’s not the way that we do it, but that is out there. And so I just want to teach you and let you know that things may be different out there, and maybe that’s not what you believe or what I believe as a family, but that’s out there. And I think sharing that early on helps people, especially our daughters, understand. Okay, just because it’s different doesn’t mean we have to hate or doesn’t mean we have to do that, because that’s not what we do. But we can still acknowledge that that could save some kids and our daughters from. From learning things elsewhere and not talking to us about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:30]:
I mentioned that you speak to organizations and schools and other groups across the country about and connection. What conversations do you think that parents are avoiding right now that they actually need to be having with their kids?

Chris SIngleton [00:13:46]:
Yeah, just the one I just shared, right? Talking to kids about how some families may look different or how, like, I’ll give you a prime example. When my oldest was five years old, he went to school and he told me how one of the. One of his classmates had two moms, and he’s like, well, dad, you know, where’s. Where’s your dad? And I was like, hey, well, this is how they do things, their family, dad. It’s a little different than what mommy and daddy have, but that is out there. And so sometimes as parents, we’re like, man, I don’t want to talk about that, like, they’re shying away from it instead of leaning in and letting their child know, hey, this is out there. But that’s just not what we do in our family, in our household. And as awkward as it is, as nervous as it makes you to talk about certain things, believe it or not, the kids are seeing it, and they’re putting two and two together in their own minds.

Chris SIngleton [00:14:29]:
And so they need Daddy to be there. They need parents to be there to kind of navigate that for them so that they’re not questioning everything else. That’s what I’d say is important. And don’t shy away from it. You gotta lean into it. In one of my books, I say loving everybody, whether their skin is darker or lighter, whether their skin is looser or tighter, their hair is looser or tighter, whether their skin is wrinkled or rough. Why should it matter? Love is enough. And so we’re talking about different people and different things.

Chris SIngleton [00:14:54]:
You know, some people are on the back end of life, and we just share all these different intricacies about being a human being, and we’re talking with kids about that, and I think that’s beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:03]:
So the reality is that difficult events happen. Things do happen. People see it in the news, and some of these do involve race, hate, or violence. How do you think that fathers can approach those conversations with their kids in age appropriate but meaningful ways?

Chris SIngleton [00:15:18]:
I will say one mistake I made as a. As a dad is sometimes I talk to my oldest. Because, you know, you’re your first. Your oldest is like your guinea pig. You’re just. You’re doing everything you can trying to figure it out, right? And I wouldn’t let my son have Nerf guns. I wouldn’t let him play, like, shooting video games. And one day he finally like, why can’t we do this, dad? And I said, because, you know, Daddy lost his mom to a person with a gun, and it was a very hateful guy.

Chris SIngleton [00:15:41]:
And so then my son became very scared of just anything with guns. And I said, man, I probably told him that a little too young. And so what I should have probably said, going back is like, hey, we’re not gonna do that, because Daddy doesn’t like those. And when you get a little older, they’ll tell you why. And so when things happen in our world, maybe explain it in a way that, you know, maybe that’s not teaching love. Maybe that’s not loving people like we should and how Daddy’s gonna teach you. But that is out there, and that’s why I’m. It’s so important that I’m teaching you this because I never want you to feel that same way too.

Chris SIngleton [00:16:10]:
And so explaining it in that way early on is important. And then as kids get older, especially middle school, oh, my goodness. We think because middle school is the age where you want to shelter them, but life is being thrown at them because some kids are growing up a lot earlier than others and so they’re hearing stuff. And so we have to be proactive in saying, hey, this is what we think, this is what we believe. And yes, this is happening in the world and it’s terrible and you know, we hate to see it, but that’s why I’m teaching you the lessons that I’m teaching you, because I want you to know I want us to lead with unity and love the way that I think that we should.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:40]:
You know, your story is rooted so much in forgiveness. How do you teach either your kids or other kids the difference between forgiveness and ignoring wrongdoing?

Chris SIngleton [00:16:51]:
That’s beautiful. I think even when we give consequences to our own kids, it’s like, hey, I was in a small group with parents and one of our themes was I learned it from a dad who was phenomenal. So I use it all the time. And when we discipline our kids, we say, hey, I’m doing this to either keep you safe or make you better. Single time. I’m either doing this to keep you safe or make you better. Well, dad, why can’t I do X, Y and Z? Because I want to keep you safe. Doing that is going to hurt you or hurt somebody else.

Chris SIngleton [00:17:17]:
But dad, why can’t I do X, Y and Z? Well, I want to make you better. You’re not getting better as a person by doing that. So that’s why we have this consequence, right? And so in every scenario, sharing that has been really neat. And so I use it for everything. I mean, literally everything. Daddy, why can’t I have, you know, candy right now? It’s 9:30. You know, eating candy right now. You know, you probably don’t want to brush your teeth like you’re supposed to.

Chris SIngleton [00:17:40]:
That’s not going to keep you safe, right? You’re going to have cavities. You’re going to do X, Y and Z. It’s been a huge tool for me even as my kids get older. Well, dad, why can’t you buy me the nicest car? Well, I don’t think that’s going to make you any better. You got to have some sweat equity in this deal. And so if I give you everything, I’M not making you better. And so I’m going to use that with everything. And I think that’s the tool that all dads should have when they.

Chris SIngleton [00:18:01]:
They had to discipline their kid or have to say no.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:04]:
You know, a lot of dads worry about saying the wrong thing when talking about race or bias with their kids. What kind of encouragement would you give to parents who want to start these conversations but are feeling uncomfortable?

Chris SIngleton [00:18:16]:
Yeah, well, we have to do the work on ourselves first and figure out, make sure we’re in a good space to teach. Because the worst thing you could be is a hypocrite and you’re telling your kid to do something and you’re doing the exact opposite. And so I think that’s the number one thing. You lead by example. I don’t want to touch back on the whole forgiveness piece just really quick, because I don’t want to rush past that. When I think about forgiveness, forgiving doesn’t mean that there’s no consequence. There’s no accountability. Right.

Chris SIngleton [00:18:41]:
So if I forgive my daughter for doing something, I’m still going to say, hey, you still got time out. I still love. You know, I love you, but you still have to sit in time out for a minute because that was not kind to do. That was not smart. You didn’t listen. So it doesn’t mean that I forgive and just pretend like it didn’t happen. No, you’ve got to learn from your mistakes. But I also say my faith, belief, forgiven.

Chris SIngleton [00:19:00]:
And we all are forgiven if we receive that. And so it’s a line where it’s like, hey, there’s accountability, but there’s also grace. And I think you got to have both. And so I want to just touch on that really quickly because I don’t want people to think that forgiveness is letting the person off the on the hook. No, there’s going to be consequences, But I forgive to move forward. And I think that’s big.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:18]:
Some of the things that you’re talking about really are. I’m hearing you, that you’re encouraging your kids to be curious. They really try to see the world in a broader view. What are some simple habits that, that dads can build into their lives that help their kids to grow up with a mindset of curiosity instead of fear toward others?

Chris SIngleton [00:19:38]:
I think a big one is watching sports. You know, I said, we’re gonna talk too much sports. But, you know, you got the World cup coming up. You had the Olympics. You know, when the Olympics are here, learning about different countries. Well, dad, what’s Botswana. I don’t know. Let’s look it up real quick.

Chris SIngleton [00:19:51]:
Let’s look up what they do in Botswana. Let’s look up their culture. So having these. These conversations is really cool. In our household, soccer is big because my wife is from Brazil. And so because my wife’s from Brazil, I’m sure my daughter’s gonna grow up playing soccer because mommy’s gonna want her to play soccer like my wife did. And so, you know, you’re gonna learn about different cultures. You know, the more that you play sports, and if you’re a dad that likes sports, you know this.

Chris SIngleton [00:20:13]:
The longer you play sports, the more that you’ll play with people that are from different places, different cultures, different whatever. And that’s a beautiful thing to teach your daughter. One of my friends, his daughter was actually really, really good in soccer. And then she started playing in college, and she started playing with girls from around the world, and she’s like, whoa, you know, there’s different levels to this. And you realize that once you start playing at a higher level. And so watching sports, learning about different countries, the World cup, the Olympics, and then you dive deep when you watch with your daughter, like, hey, let’s look up Morocco. I always love looking up language, food, and where it is on the map. And so those are three things I love looking up.

Chris SIngleton [00:20:49]:
And so if we’re watching France, because we think France is going to win the World cup, and we’re like, let’s look up France. Let’s see what they got going on over there. And having those conversations, it’s fun, and it’s in a proactive way. And then when something may happen in the world, you’re not, like, circling back, man. I don’t. You’ve never talked about this place before. It’s like, no, we want to be upfront about different places in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
I’ll ask you one other question about sports, and that really comes down to the fact that I’m sure that there are things that have happened in your life through sports that have provided you some lessons and things that have helped you to be the father that you are. So what lessons from sports or teamwork have influenced the way in which you father your kids? Kids?

Chris SIngleton [00:21:27]:
Yeah. Well, I. I’ve read some statistic, and I’m going to butcher it, but I. I saw, like, most women in leadership played sports at a young age, and I don’t know what the percentage was, but it was a high percentage. A high, high percentage. And so, dad, you guys can look that. That percentage up So I think sports are good just to put your daughters in sports. I think it teaches accountability, it teaches leadership.

Chris SIngleton [00:21:46]:
It teaches leading by example, because your teammates won’t buy into anything you’re saying unless you’re doing it too, so you got to do that. It also teaches failure. Failure and realizing, hey, we’re not going to succeed in everything all the time. But how you respond to that failure is everything in life. And so if we turn the ball over in basketball, or we strike out with the bases loaded in softball, or if we miss a free throw when we really needed to in basketball, like, whatever it is, how we respond to that is how we will make up majority of our lives. So those are some things that sports has taught me as an athlete.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:16]:
You know, I think about the world today and how social media has really created a lot of division. How do we help kids hold on to hope and kindness when they’re constantly exposed to negativity online and in the media?

Chris SIngleton [00:22:31]:
Yeah, I actually did some work with our legislators about this because I saw that social media has just become so divisive. And I love the stories where it’s like the kid with a lemonade stand out at the first tee, raising money for his buddy in school that has cancer. I love those stories. We need more of those stories. But it seems like we get pushed and we get fed the beast of the algorithm is anything divisive just gets. Gets pushed to us even more. And so censoring or monitoring what our kids are watching are engaging in is important. And then making sure, because we have to make sure that our kids aren’t the ones that are bullying or on the other side of that.

Chris SIngleton [00:23:07]:
And we all think, especially our daughters, like, oh, our daughter is just. She’s so amazing. She’s the nicest person ever. She would never. Until we started reading some of the stuff that they’re posting, we’re like, hey, we might have to have some conversations. So being proactive and not being blind to that is important as well, because we never think it’d be our kid to be the bully until we find. Find out that it’s our kid that’s the bully. And so just monitoring what they’re watching, what they’re saying.

Chris SIngleton [00:23:28]:
And then I always say there is. It is a blessing and a compliment to have high expectations for your kids. And so with our daughters, I have high expectations that you won’t do this online, you won’t say this online, you won’t be that person online. And so if that’s my expectation for you, it May be high because I’m monitoring your stuff. I’m making sure you don’t say X, Y and Z. I’m doing that at a place of love because I have these expectations for you. You. And making sure that the algorithm that they have isn’t one that’s going to fuel hatred and division.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:
You know, you’ve inspired a lot of audiences through vulnerability and honesty in what you share in front of the groups. How important is it for dads to let their kids see emotion, grief, and healing?

Chris SIngleton [00:24:11]:
Oh, my goodness. It’s so big. Because if our daughters, our kids especially, just grow up thinking that dad doesn’t show any emotion, sometimes they’re gonna think they shouldn’t show emotion or they’re not going to come to us because he won’t understand. Because I’ve never seen him get sad, right? So if they’re sad, you know, I probably can’t tell dad because he won’t understand. I’ve never seen dad sad before. Now, if we’re open and vulnerable, it’s like, you know, I can come to dad with anything because I’ve seen him have the same emotions that I felt and he’s going to feel with me when I share this with him. I think that’s big. And for so long as husbands and fathers, we think, man, we have to be that rock that nothing shakes us.

Chris SIngleton [00:24:46]:
Us, right? We’re the foundation of the family, and nothing should shake us or hurt us. But in doing so, sometimes things won’t get to us because, hey, he’s not going to understand. He won’t get it. Because I’ve never seen him say that he messed up, or I’ve never seen him say that he’s grieving right now. And so I think it’s so important that we’re open and honest with our feelings and our emotions. Even other day, I’m watching a video in the car, and I saw this video. It’s like this kid had his dad at one of his games, and before the game, he got his son a new baseball bat. He hit a home run for his dad on Father’s Day, the dad catches it outside of the fence, and he’s like, I got it.

Chris SIngleton [00:25:23]:
I got your home run ball. And you see the son kind of point to the dad, the outfield. And I’m crying real tears, man. And my daughter, my son, they’re like, dad, are you okay? I said, daddy’s fine. But this made me feel emotional because this is a beautiful moment. And so I have happy tears right now, guys. And so like having those conversations, them, they see that dad has feelings too. And yes, we’re strong, yes, we’re going to protect our baby girls, our daughters.

Chris SIngleton [00:25:48]:
But they need to know, hey, we have feelings too. So anything that they feel they can share with us as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]:
What legacy do you hope to leave not only through your speaking, but through your role as a father?

Chris SIngleton [00:25:58]:
Yeah, one non negotiable that I have as far as my legacy is. I don’t want my kids to ever think daddy made a huge impact on the world, but he didn’t make a huge impact on us. I think that’s a, a huge failure as a man that I could have is if I do that, I want them to say Daddy was an amaz person. Not only to people around the world, but to us. He was dead. He was at our daddy daughter dances, he was at our games where we had our first hit or our first home, whatever it may be, he was there. It’s just being active and knowing that they have somewhere to run to or to talk to is huge. And then all the life lessons that I share with them, you know, I just hope that they keep 10% of them.

Chris SIngleton [00:26:32]:
That’d be my legacy. Right. I’m sharing stuff all the time and make sure you’re saving. We’re gonna do a Roth IRA for you young so you can do X, Y and Z. All these things. I just hope that they remember something of this stuff that I’m instilling in them and in doing so, maybe they run into a problem when they get older and they’ll say, you know, my dad always told me, and then they’ll share something else and that’d be huge legacy for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:52]:
So if every family embraced the idea of loving their neighbor, how do you think the next generation would look different from the one we have today?

Chris SIngleton [00:27:00]:
Man, what a beautiful question. I think that kids will grow up knowing that there’s going to be differences in the world. There’s going to be different faiths, there’s going to be different languages, there’s going to be different. Different Everything doesn’t mean different means bad. My wife is from Brazil and in Brazil the culture is all family. You don’t really move away too much in their culture, right? You don’t go away for college. I know you’ve got daughters that are going to college and all this stuff and they’re kind of moving away. And that’s not really the culture in Brazil.

Chris SIngleton [00:27:26]:
It’s all about family and having dinner together on Sundays. And so sometimes we could say you know what? Maybe I want that culture for me, even though I’m American. When you learn about something different, when you learn that, you know, sometimes times in some cultures they don’t use technology, they just sit around the table and talk and have meals together on certain days. I like that. And so maybe we can put that into our family values as well. And that’s beauty. When you see that when kids growing up, that different doesn’t mean bad. Different just means different.

Chris SIngleton [00:27:54]:
I think our world would be a lot better place now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:56]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. You ready?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:03]:
Let’s do it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:03]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:08]:
I’d say right now it’s just very gentle. Right now, gentle is my word.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:12]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:17]:
Your presence matters. Is the best advice I’ve received. Your presence, it matters. Even when you think they don’t see you there and you’re just there for six hours, or are they really going to care? They’re so young. Your presence, it matters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:34]:
Right now I’d say he’s reading books together. She loves that. So reading is our activity right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:44]:
Hard work is important. Would probably be. My biggest thing is like, hey, working hard is important. In a world where AI makes stuff easy and there’s shortcuts to everything, hard work is still super important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:55]:
And what’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:59]:
I’ve learned that sometimes I need to stop and take in the moment more because I’m young guy and I had to grow up really quick and so I’m always ripping and running and doing that, you know, all these different things. But sometimes stopping and just being present in the moment is the greatest blessing we could ever receive. And so that’s something I’ve learned about myself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:19]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Chris SIngleton [00:29:26]:
I’d say having high expectations for our baby girls is important. And never get so caught up in that you have to provide that you forget that being there matters just as much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]:
Now, if people want to find out more about you, what you’re doing, your books, etc, where should they go?

Chris SIngleton [00:29:43]:
My website’s chrissingleton.com and I got all the social medias. If you just search up C. Singleton underscore two or just search up Chris Singleton, you’ll see all my content and stuff there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:54]:
Well, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for not only sharing about your own journey as a father today, but sharing your message of love thy neighbor and help us think a little bit differently about the way in which we not only talk about this, but treat others. I truly appreciate the message. I truly appreciate the time and I wish you all the best.

Chris SIngleton [00:30:15]:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:17]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being correct perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:30:47]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Embracing Change: Strengthening the Father-Daughter Bond as She Grows

July 13, 2026 by dadofdivas

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In the most recent episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes special guest Colin Gray—podcaster, international speaker, founder of The Podcast Host, and a proud father—to discuss the evolving journey of fatherhood and the unique relationship fathers share with their daughters.

This insightful conversation revolves around the central theme of connection: what it truly means to connect with your daughter as she grows, how that connection changes, and the intentional steps dads can take to foster it. Colin Gray reflects on his experience raising his now eleven-year-old daughter, candidly sharing that as children mature, simple activities like park visits or ice cream trips no longer hold the same power to bond as they once did. Instead, it’s the “little weird normal moments”—joining in on a silly dance or matching her energy in the kitchen—that create genuine connections. He urges dads to let go of preconceived expectations and instead meet their daughters where they are, embracing who they’re becoming.

Another major theme is the balance between guiding and granting independence. Colin Gray shares that encouraging his children to try things for themselves, even if it means letting them fail, has been key to building their confidence and autonomy. It’s about being there with support and constructive feedback, but resisting the urge to always be in control or solve every problem.

Intentionality shines through as a guiding principle: intentionally seeking out your daughter’s interests—even if they’re outside your comfort zone—fosters meaningful conversations and establishes trust. Whether it’s learning about makeup and hair to connect with his daughter, or simply being curious about her favorite YouTube trends, Colin Gray models engagement and the willingness to step into her world.

The conversation is honest about parental imperfection—both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Colin Gray admit to making mistakes, but emphasize the importance of being open to feedback from their kids and growing together. They highlight the value of mutual respect, adaptability, and leading by example.

This episode serves as a warm reminder that strong relationships aren’t built on grand gestures, but on consistent presence, adaptability, and listening. If you’re a dad looking for real advice, encouragement, and stories from the trenches of parenthood, don’t miss this episode. Tune in to the Dad and Daughter Connection and keep building the bond your daughter needs—one moment at a time.

Listen now and join the journey!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, to reach, work together on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters. And I say that it’s learning and growing because every day we have to learn and grow.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]:
We have to be willing to put ourselves out there. We have to be willing to set aside things that we think we know and go with the flow a lot of times with our daughters. And it’s important to be able to talk to other fathers, learn from other fathers, hear what they’re doing, and to gain some perspective, because we don’t have all the answers. Let’s be honest. None of us are infallible. There’s going to be times where we make mistakes, and many of us may not have a lot of examples of what fatherhood is before we become fathers. So that’s why every week, I love being able to have different people with different experiences that can offer you some different perspectives to help you in your own fatherhood journey. And today we got another great guest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]:
Colin Gray is with us, and Colin is known as the podcast host. Colin and I have known each other for a while, and I’ve loved listening to him and what he’s been doing, but he’s a podcaster, he’s an international speaker, a he’s founder of the podcast host and Alitu the podcast maker. But he started out in astrophysics before realizing how much math you had to do. So that being said, he turned to podcasting, and he has made a amazing, amazing life for himself and his family. And we’ll talk a little bit about the journey that he’s gone on, but also we’re going to be talking about his own journey in his journey as a father to two kids and especially his oldest, his daughter. And I’m really excited to have him Here. Colin, thanks so much for being here today.

Colin Gray [00:02:43]:
No worries. Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:45]:
It is my pleasure. I really appreciate you joining me. I know it’s the evening for you, the morning for me, and but I appreciate you taking some time to chat about this relationship with your daughter. And I love being able to start by really thinking about this journey that you’ve been on because every one of us as fathers wants to have those moments, those moments that we connect and we work hard to try to create those moments with our daughters. What would you say is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter and what made it so special?

Colin Gray [00:03:16]:
I’ll maybe avoid the question slightly, but give you a different type of answer perhaps in that. One of the things that I’ve found or I’ve learned, I suppose, over the last five years as my daughter’s become much more grown up. She’s 11 now and it used to be quite easy to make a connection with her when she was like three, four or five. You just go and you do kind of anything and they just become absorbed in what you want to do with them and just love spending the time with you and you know, they’ll often just do whatever you kind of lead them into playing, you know, a game or Lego or go outdoors to the park, whatever that might be. As my daughter’s got older, I found those things harder because obviously she has much more of her own mind, her own preferences, her own things, things that she wants to do. And I found myself even a couple of years ago when she wasn’t getting into 9 or 10, as she was getting much more of those preferences, I would choose to say, let’s go for a wee walk into town, we’ll go and have a wee walk around, we’ll grab like a nice cake or something in the shop and then we’ll walk home again. And because she’s much more her set, her own person now, she’d have preferences and maybe be a bit grumpy or, you know, it wouldn’t be perfect and I would end up getting grumpy because it wasn’t as perfect as I, you know, wanted this kind of connection to be. And I would kind of sabotage it for myself.

Colin Gray [00:04:30]:
These days I’m much more accepting of the fact that actually those connections just come in those little weird normal moments actually and it’s less about planning, like to go in for a three hour walk with her into town and a cake or an ice cream or whatever and it’s more just Actually, I walk into the kitchen and she’s sitting there, whether it’s reading a book or doing a dance or whatever it is she’s doing. And I’ll just walk up behind her and do the same thing. It’s like something about matching her energy much more. And because she’s kind of just learning who she is, I guess as a developing human, I find that’s what actually creates the connection these days. It’s actually just those little silly, messing around things where she’s doing a dance and I just walk in and join in in a super stupid, silly way, and that’s it. And it’s those little bits and it just takes like 30 seconds. But actually, those are the times when we just laugh and smile at each other much more. And there’s much less chance that the kind of budding teenager in her creates some kind of friction that ends up with both of us being angry at each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:31]:
One of the things that I guess that I would ask in response to that is you said that there was a little bit of a journey for yourself in the sense of, you know, getting from where you were to where you are today. What were some intentional steps that you had to take to be able to, I guess, in some sense, let go and just be present and be a part of the energy that she’s giving versus having those. Those, I’m going to say, preconceived feelings of what you wanted to happen and then being let down because you have to be able to grow from where that was to where you are today.

Colin Gray [00:06:04]:
I mean, you know what it’s like when they’re small. You are like the definitive boss, aren’t you? Because they’re liable to do something that could hurt themselves. Or you need to teach them how to be humans, you know, how to be. How to be decent and nice and kind and share and all that kind of stuff. But there’s a point they get where they’re. Suddenly they know those things. If you’ve done your job well enough, then they mostly know those things. And you can kind of let go of that a little bit.

Colin Gray [00:06:29]:
And then actually it comes to the point where you’re trying to do nice things with them and make those connections that you’re talking about. But you can’t be the definitive boss in those. You can’t decide what their fun is. You can’t decide what their preferences are. You can’t say, oh, well, I like, I used to love going for an ice cream with you, and you used to love it as well. So now, because you say you don’t want to do that anymore, I’m going to get annoyed and grumpy. And I went through a point of that. So, yeah, you said the words there, letting go.

Colin Gray [00:06:55]:
And it was definitely a letting go of that. Partly you’re the one that’s always in charge and making the decisions, and there’s still a bit of that, you know, as a parent, no matter what age they are, of course. But you have to let go of a lot of that, I think. And let go as well of the fact that you feel like you know what they enjoy. Because I don’t know what they enjoy these days. Like, both of my kids, especially my daughter, she’ll teach her mind every other week, and that’s fine. She’s just figuring stuff out. But I can be surprised one day when I go and ask her to do something and she’s like, no, don’t like that anymore.

Colin Gray [00:07:27]:
And she doesn’t say it like that, of course, but something’s changed. So there’s something around letting go of predictability as well and kind of thinking that, you know, what will make that connection or please her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:38]:
A lot of the things that you’re talking about really talks to the fact that our kids, as they’re getting into the age that your daughter’s in, is really pushing and stretching that rubber band of independence. We’ll say they want more independence than they’ve had in the past. How, as a father, have you been able to balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence that she needs to be able to become the person that she’s becoming?

Colin Gray [00:08:06]:
I think if there’s many things I’ve got wrong as a dad over the years, one of the things I think I have done reasonably well is the independence side of things. And I think I was. Myself and my brother were really independent kids when we were younger. My mom and dad worked. Both of them, they had to work. And also they were just quite independent themselves. They were both like farm kids, so they grew up on farms, and therefore they were given a lot of responsibility when they were kids as well. And that passed on to us.

Colin Gray [00:08:31]:
And so I come from a family that is kind of from that point of view, from an early age, you get on and you just kind of look after yourself. And I’ve always encouraged my kids reasonably gently, but sometimes forcefully, to do things for themselves. You know, they ask for little simple things done for them, and I’m like, no, you know how to do that. I’ll show you how. I’ll help you do it, but you’ll do it. And so I’ve often done that all the way through. And it’s one of the things where my wife and I differ a fair bit. But she enjoys doing things.

Colin Gray [00:09:00]:
Like she really enjoys looking after the kids and like making sandwiches for them and stuff like that. But then when she’s away for the week, the kids make their own sandwiches for their lunch. And I don’t think it’s. It’s not only because I’m lazy, it’s partly because I want them to know how to do that as well. So I’ve definitely encouraged that from the very start. Like they need to know how to do things and I’ll leave them to do those things and fail at them as well. My daughter was cleaning the car the other day and she volunteered to do the inside and I offered to pay her a bit more for the inside. And I was like, I could go out and I showed her a few things, but I just left her to it for a few hours and she came back and I went back and I told her, oh, no, that’s not right, that’s not right.

Colin Gray [00:09:37]:
And it was just. I think it’s that kind of constructive feedback is something that I do. I tend to treat them a lot more like grownups right from the start and. But then, yeah, alongside that, just play silly games as well. So there’s a bit of a balance there, isn’t there?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:51]:
There definitely is a balance there. And it sounds like there’s some intentional things that you’re trying to do to be able to build that bond, those connections that we have with our daughters, you talked about when she was younger and the things that you like to do and some of the things that you’re doing now, as you think about intention in intentional ways in which you’re trying to build that bond, what are some of the things that you’re doing today that you try to be intentional about as you’re building relationship and building that bond?

Colin Gray [00:10:18]:
I’m constantly trying to find the things that she likes that I can talk to her about. There’s a period she’s going through right now where she’s definitely connecting a lot with her mum because she’s getting into quite girly things like makeup and hair and things like that. And that’s cool, that’s wonderful to see them doing that. And they kind of. They go for little shopping trips in and buy like a little, you know, two pound lip balm that she gets really excited about and all these kind of things and it’s, it’s lovely to see. I can try. I can kind of like learn a bit, a bit about these things, but I’m just like, I’m a guy with no hair, so I can’t get into the hair stuff. I’m a 40 year old man, so I can’t quite get into the makeup stuff.

Colin Gray [00:10:52]:
I’ll try on the lip balm for sure, but can’t get too excited about an extra good lip balm. So I think I’m just constantly trying to ask her things like what she’s into. I think, you know, it might be the same with yourself, Chris, like around the kind of being in this world of podcasting and media and YouTube and all that kind of stuff. That’s one thing that I do find I can connect with her quite well with actually, because I’m really interested in like, you know, trends on YouTube trends and podcasting, trends in media in general. So talking to them about who they’re following and who they like and who they’re becoming fans of and even in music as well, but more so the visual media side of things, I find that a really good conversation. That’s something that I bring up often, actually, because I find that that’s a good way to connect because I probably know more about that stuff than your average mid-40s dad, just through the jobs that we do. So that’s one thing that I do a lot is try and have those conversations. So, yeah, I don’t know.

Colin Gray [00:11:40]:
Do you find that with your set, with your own daughters, you know, a little bit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:43]:
I find I still don’t completely understand TikTok. I still don’t understand it, but. But my youngest loves showing me tiktoks. And I’ll watch them and I’ll be in my mind saying, I don’t get this, but I’ll be here and I’ll be present and I try to figure out what the intrigue is. So. And I think that as podcasters and someone. For me, it’s all about storytelling, right? And it’s about how do we tell these stories or allow other people to tell their stories. And I think you do that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:18]:
And I’ve tried to impart that on my own daughters to try to explain to them the power of story and the power of allowing them to not only tell their story, but allowing for others to tell their story. And I’ve tried to show them that as well. And I’m sure you have too, right?

Colin Gray [00:12:35]:
Yeah, definitely. And you know, it’s interesting, you bring that up because it’s not something that I’d put a label on before, but something that my daughter and I particularly connect around a lot is stories around characters in our house. So something we’ve always played around with, even when she was really small. But it’s grown into. I kind of thought this would fall away, but it hasn’t. Is around, like, soft toys and dolls and that kind of stuff. And she’s not into playing with, you know, dolls and teddies and stuff like that anymore. But we have these stories around them that ends up the two of us play around with them together.

Colin Gray [00:13:07]:
So when I go in to say night to my daughter at night, she’s got a few different soft toys lying around in her bed. And they all have their names, but they also. Big backstories that we’ve made over the last, like, five years. There’s a great one, this big, massive yellow teddy that we have, which we acquired in Japan, actually, when we’re on a holiday there. And there’s a whole backstory around how we acquired it, but equally, it went for the trip around with us, and me and her were just sitting around, like, making this teddy do things all the way around this trip. And ever since then, as well, it’s had that story where it’s from Japan, and it’s. We do things around the house, and it’s got a personality. And I think.

Colin Gray [00:13:40]:
I’m not sure maybe everyone does this, to be fair, but I feel like we go a little overboard in giving all these toys personalities and backstory and making them do things over the years. And that’s definitely something that we connect around a lot. But you’re right, it’s. As you said there. It’s the story. It’s all around the backstory. It’s all around the plot, what their likes and their dislikes are and all those things. Is that kind of like.

Colin Gray [00:14:02]:
Does that make sense?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:03]:
It does. My daughters are at an age that we don’t really have those kind of stories anymore, but I do try to get them involved in what I’m doing. They’re not always interested in it, but I try to show them, explain them. I actually. I just was talking to my oldest the other day about. I said. I said, you’re a storyteller. You like to talk to people you like.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:23]:
I said, you should have a podcast. And she’s, oh, yeah, yeah, whatever, dad. And. But you never know. I mean, they watch, they. They learn, and you never know, they might decide to pick something up along the way.

Colin Gray [00:14:36]:
That’s it isn’t it. It’s all example. I think there’s so much. I fall into this trap as much as anyone. But it’s so much so easy to find yourself telling them something while doing another thing, isn’t it? Whereas if you just do the thing, you don’t need to tell them anymore because they just see that as normal. So yeah, exercise is one of those. Daphne’s a dancer so she does a fair bit of dancing and different formats and stuff. So she does a fair bit of exercise.

Colin Gray [00:15:02]:
But I think some of that has come from the fact that she sees me and my wife like we, we make a big point of, you know, working out four times a week and doing a fair bit of exercise and being active and getting out in the hills and all that kind of stuff. So I think example is so powerful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:16]:
It definitely is. Now every one of us as fathers want our daughters to feel valued, heard and to know that we are there for them. What do you intentionally do to help your daughter to feel valued and heard?

Colin Gray [00:15:31]:
I think the main thing I try and do, rightly or wrongly, is I’ve always tried to be as honest and constructive as possible. And I think I’ve certainly. My wife thinks I go too far with this sometimes to actually criticize a painting. They’ve done a painting or made something and you’re like, don’t criticize that. That’s not the right word. But critical feedback. Oh. So good effort on doing this.

Colin Gray [00:15:57]:
I wonder what do you like about it? Do you like this part and this part? I love this part about it. I wonder that year is not quite right. I wonder if we draw that dog. How would you normally draw a dog ear? So it looks a bit more accurate and I certainly think you don’t. This is probably something that many people would disagree on, but I’ve always done that ever since they were quite small. So I think that has built more trust over the years. So that when I do give my daughter a compliment or I tell her she’s done well at something, I think she trusts it rather than, you know, as a kid you always appreciate the praise from your parents but. But you begin to realize that your mom’s going to tell you you’re great at whatever you do, no matter how good you are at it.

Colin Gray [00:16:35]:
So I think that’s what I’ve always tried to do is to be quite honest and be a little bit critical friend when I can so that trust builds. So is that something to do yourself? Do you find that with more grown up daughters have you had any feedback on that?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:52]:
I do. I try and sometimes I fail. And I think that they’re much more willing to tell me when I’m failing. And I think that that’s okay. I think that all of us, as I said before, none of us are infallible. We all make mistakes. And I think that we have to be willing to learn and grow and not be so set in our ways that we’re not willing to take that feedback ourselves. I try to give feedback to my daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:22]:
But you also come to learn when you can push, when you can pull, and when you just need to be still.

Colin Gray [00:17:28]:
Yes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:29]:
And I think as they get older, that’s definitely something. You have to learn that along the way.

Colin Gray [00:17:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. And you’re absolutely right there around making it mutual. It doesn’t work unless it’s mutual. And we do that quite a lot, actually, me and my wife. We say, like I often say to both of our kids, listen, I know I’m getting you in trouble for something here. I know I’m giving you, like, telling you what to do and all that kind of stuff, but if there’s ever any. I’m always willing to take feedback. If there’s anything you think I’m wrong about, I will always listen to you.

Colin Gray [00:17:56]:
If you say it to me in a reasonable, fair manner, if we can talk in normal tone of voice, and we’re not going to shout at each other. If you ever give me feedback, if you ever want to tell me something if you think I’m wrong, please just tell me and I’ll always listen to you. I might disagree, but I’ll always listen as long as we can talk about it in a civil manner. And I think that’s often built a decent bit of trust as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:15]:
And I think a lot of fathers and parents in general get in trouble when they don’t approach parenting in that way. Because I think when you get into arguments and you’re butting heads, especially during the teenage years, because that tends to happen, that’s when things go sideways. And that’s when you say things you regret in the end or you injure or hurt the relationship in a way that becomes harder to come back from. And I like the word that you said when you said you come at this with a mutual, you know, and it’s. I think there’s a mutual respect. Right. You need to be able to provide respect for your child. You want them to have respect for you, too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:57]:
But ultimately, as they get older, you need to show that mutual respect for the decisions that they’re making as they become adults, while at the same time knowing that you may not be agreeing with the decisions that they’re making.

Colin Gray [00:19:09]:
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:11]:
Because I’ve had that happen.

Colin Gray [00:19:12]:
Yeah. I’m sure that’s one of the areas where I have a big weakness. Like my. Probably my biggest weakness as a parent is I can end up stuck on a road. Stubbornly. My wife will back this up. That I have a stubborn streak whereby if I have started down some kind of path, I say it relates to what we were talking about earlier. Like I’ve decided we’re going to have a good day by walking into town and having an ice cream and then we’re going to have a nice chat and then we’re going to come home.

Colin Gray [00:19:37]:
And that’s in my head. And stubbornly I’ll stick to that. Even though I realize my daughter’s not really into this anymore or she’s actually just had a bit of a bad day because her and her friend just had a little fight or something has happened which means that we should be changing plans. And it’s kind of ironic because I think run my own business. I do a bunch of other stuff that means I need to be flexible. I need to be flexible and adapt to plans. But with my children, sometimes I’m very bad at that. I’m not good at adapting.

Colin Gray [00:20:02]:
So when something starts and I end up on a track and I stubbornly stick to it, that’s when I end up seeing things I’ll regret all the time because I’ll somehow just refuse to be able to change my mind or to be able to go back on something. Even though I realize that I’ve ended up. It’s at least half my fault, if not more, that we’re now shouting at each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
And I think that showing them that adaptability is important because so often in life we have to be resilient and you have to bounce back. I just had an example of that with my oldest daughter up till Monday of this week. She was supposed to be flying out yesterday to go on a month long mission trip to Kenya. It got canceled Monday afternoon.

Colin Gray [00:20:45]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:45]:
Because of the diseases that were happening in and around Kenya.

Colin Gray [00:20:51]:
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:51]:
And of course she’s devastated and you have to understand and you have to try to help her to be resilient. But there’s also that understanding of where your daughter is at the time to be able to be in the mindset of hearing that message while knowing that she may not be able to take that message in at the Right.

Colin Gray [00:21:13]:
Time. Yeah, yeah, totally. That’s a pretty general human thing, isn’t it? There’s certain times when we’ve had bad news or we’re in a bad mood, the last thing you want to hear is, oh, don’t worry, it’s going to be okay. Like, I don’t get. It’s not going to be okay. Yeah, it’s hard to find that empathy, though. That’s. Yeah, it’s difficult, especially with a teenager, I think it is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:33]:
So, you know, I think, though, that showing them that adaptability, though, leads them to be resilient and to be able to see that it’s okay to change plans and it’s okay to move in a different direction. Now, I will say that if you have neurodivergent children, changing plans and being adaptable may be harder. And I’m just going to recognize that because I know that that can be more of an issue. I don’t want to say that all kids are going to be the same in doing that, but I think that it is still important to help them to be able to understand how can we be adaptable based on the life of what’s happening in our life, what’s happening today, what’s happening tomorrow and beyond.

Colin Gray [00:22:14]:
Yeah, definitely. I think. I don’t know. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this as well, Chris. But like, when we were in Japan last year, I found that a really interesting trip in the. We planned a lot less than we usually would. So we were there for a few weeks and there were so many little problems came up on that trip. Like something went wrong, something didn’t turn up on time, and it was all because we didn’t actually plan it that well ahead because we wanted to be quite flexible.

Colin Gray [00:22:37]:
But there was so many, like, great experience moments in there, around that hopefully the kids again, from example, isn’t it like seeing my wife and I say, all right, okay, so we can’t get that train after all. So can’t get to our hotel tonight. Which means pretty unfortunate, but we’ll find something else. So we just start looking for other things and kind of about. And talking to folk. And I think that’s sometimes actually a great way or I found a great way to show them that and to teach them that is actually to take a chance on something that’s a bit less. A bit more unpredictable. Maybe plan a bit less than you would normally or try a type of trip that you wouldn’t normally take or things like that.

Colin Gray [00:23:13]:
And then obviously attempt not to entirely Panic when it goes, goes wrong yourself, which is not always the easiest thing, but give it a go at least. Have you ever tried something like that?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:23]:
I have. You know, and I think I find that I tend to like to be busy when I’m on vacation, like you’re saying. And I tend to like to know what’s around and, and I try to plan things but sometimes the, the best trips that we’ve been on have been ones where we have a general sense of what we’re going to do but then we leave it open to a bit more chance of okay as we’re driving around. You know, it’s not that we have to be there right at 10 o’, clock, but hey, that sign says something’.

Colin Gray [00:23:55]:
Here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:55]:
Maybe we, let’s, let’s take that little side trip and we don’t have to be there right at 10. We could be there at 10:30. Let’s go check that out. Or you know, you’re, you’re walking and you’re headed toward a direction but then you see a, a side shop that looks really interesting. Is it going to matter that you’re 10 minutes late? Maybe it will. And if that’s the case, then you can come back. But if there, if you don’t have the specific things that you have to do at the right time, at the right, you know, in the right order, sometimes it’s fun and it makes it even more memorable.

Colin Gray [00:24:27]:
Yeah, definitely more memorable. I mean some of the most memorable things we’ve done all together as a family were completely unplanned, completely unpredictable or even it’s just a complete mess ups. Like when the car breaks down and you have to walk a mile to the garage and you get stuck somewhere in a bog because you try to take a shortcut. You know, silly things like that, that’s the stories that stick around. It’s never the ones that you, you plan for like the beautifully crafted Christmas dinner or the, or the, you know, the trip that was planned within an inch of its life that was meant to be most memorable. It’ll be, it’ll be the silly, the silly one thing that went wrong on those things every single time that comes up, isn’t it? It’s always the family stories.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:03]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Colin Gray [00:25:10]:
Go for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:10]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Colin Gray [00:25:14]:
Feisty.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:15]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received I that it’s

Colin Gray [00:25:20]:
always just a phase. So if it’s something good that’s happening right now, if they’re in a great mood, if they’re all like, if the relationship’s going well, then appreciate it, because it will probably change. But if it’s all going terribly, if they’re behaving terribly, if there’s something bad happening, you can’t get them toilet trained, whatever it might be, it’s just a phase. It’ll pass. So either way, if it’s good, appreciate it. If it’s bad, it’ll pass.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:42]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Colin Gray [00:25:45]:
Piggybacks still. Even though she’s getting way too heavy and it keeps me strong.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Colin Gray [00:25:55]:
I think it is something around what we were talking about there, around resilience and change. It’s like things will change, but you have the strength and the intelligence and the resilience to adapt it. No matter what goes wrong, you’ll figure out a way that our family is a family of problem solvers. That’s what we all do. So we love to solve problems. So just see it all as an interesting challenge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:17]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Colin Gray [00:26:20]:
That I am a much better person to be around when I can abandon my preconceived expectations and actually just go with the flow more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Colin Gray [00:26:36]:
There’s something around probably the hardest thing which is holding them more loosely than you feel like you should, whether that’s how much you need to protect them, whether it’s how much you need to guide them or whether it’s how much you need to tell them the way to do things. We should probably. I certainly I should. I have learned certainly to do that more loosely than I naturally would otherwise.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Well, Colin, I just want to say thank you. If people want to find out more about you and what you’re doing with podcast host or anything else that you’re doing right now. Where should they go?

Colin Gray [00:27:08]:
Yeah, probably the best place actually is just go over to Colin Gray. So my name, Colin Gray link. That’s kind of links to all the stuff I’m doing. So yeah, just Colin Gray link.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:16]:
And I’ll put a link in the notes today to for you to be able to connect with Colin. Colin, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate the time today. Appreciate you sharing your story. I know it’s continuously evolving and it will continue to evolve as your daughter gets older, but I really appreciate your time today and for you sharing with us and I wish you all the best.

Colin Gray [00:27:39]:
No, thank you very much for having me on. It’s always a pleasure to chat. It was good to catch up. So, yeah, cheers.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:44]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:28:14]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.