vulnerability Archives - Dad of Divas

Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child

August 10, 2026 by dadofdivas

This week’s episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Jared Mees on Fatherhood, Vulnerability, and Connection

July 27, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad searching for practical wisdom and heartfelt inspiration on building stronger connections with your daughter, you won’t want to miss the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Jared Mees, father, creative, and co-founder of Tender Loving Empire, for a candid conversation about the joys, challenges, and real-life lessons of fatherhood.

This episode dives deep into what meaningful connection really looks like between dads and daughters. Jared Mees shares his biggest bonding moments, like the summer road trips he’s taken with his daughters since they were little—unstructured adventures that have become cherished family memories. Whether braving uncomfortable camping trips or hours on the road, these simple, unplugged experiences spark genuine connection, laughter, and character-building for all.

As daughters grow up, the balancing act for dads shifts. Jared Mees opens up about learning to give his daughters independence as they get older—recognizing when to lean in, when to back off, and how to be present even when they aren’t seeking attention. For his younger daughter, it’s about reading and drawing together. For his teen, it’s understanding late-night chats and respecting her space.

One of the most powerful parts of the episode centers on vulnerability. Jared Mees shares honestly about a mental health crisis he faced and how it affected his family. Learning to admit mistakes, say “Daddy was wrong,” and seek real support reshaped his relationship with his daughters. His openness models strength and resilience—and shows that kids benefit deeply from witnessing their parents’ growth and recovery.

Other themes include the importance of encouraging kids’ passions without taking over, calling out the specific things that make them unique, and navigating the emotional transitions as daughters become teens. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Jared Mees also discuss letting go of ego, embracing imperfection, and being consistent in small, everyday ways.

If you’re ready to hear authentic stories and actionable advice about being the dad your daughter needs—through life’s ups, downs, and transitions—be sure to tune in. Head to dadanddaughterconnection.com, catch the latest episode, and start building those lifelong bonds, one day at a time.

Don’t miss this uplifting and honest look at fatherhood—listen now!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together, to work on identifying ways in which we can build those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. It is going to be a journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]:
Having those perfect relationships is going to come in ebbs and flows. It’s not always going to be easy, but there are things that you can do to make it a little bit better one day at a time. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists to be able to give you some tools for your toolbox, for you to be able to learn, to grow and to be able to be that dad that you want to be showing up for your daughter every day. That’s why every week, I love being able to bring you different dance with different experiences to help you to be able to see fatherhood in a little bit of a different way and to be able to see how they are fathering their own daughters, to be able to help you in your journey. Today we got another great guest. Jared Mees is with us today, and Jared is someone I’ve known for a number of years. Jared was on another podcast that I used to have called Dads with Daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]:
And at that time, it was about four years ago, we were chatting about some music that he was making with his daughters, and his daughters keep growing as they always do. So I’m excited to be able to have him back, to be able to talk about how things are going today and be able to check back in. Jared, thanks so much for being here today.

Jared Mees [00:02:20]:
Thanks so much, Chris. Appreciate it. Excited to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here today, and I always loved starting the conversation because this show is all about connection and how you build those meaningful connections with your daughters. And I. I know you have two daughters yourself. What would you say is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made it so special?

Jared Mees [00:02:41]:
Yeah, I have two lovely daughters. Piper is 8 and she’s almost 9. And July is 14 going on 24. So we’re. I’m super blessed to have them in my life. And I always thought I’d be a dad of a son or something before I had kids. But then, now that I have two daughters, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Of course, they’re definitely lights of my life.

Jared Mees [00:03:03]:
They’re both totally individual, different human beings, and they both need completely different things. And I try to provide it every day, whether I feel like it or not. And, you know, some days I succeed better than others, as we all do. But I would say, to answer your question, the biggest things that we do together are these road trips that we take every summer. Ever since COVID when Piper was two or three, two and a half, and July was eight, we’ve taken summer road trips to my hometown in Colorado from Oregon, where I live. So just driving around with them and exploring, mostly the western United States and just seeing things, camping. A lot of the. The funnest times are just when there’s no real plan and we just get into something.

Jared Mees [00:03:53]:
We’re on the beach or we’re having a conversation around a fire, or just all the little things that happen along the way. But the road tr. Definitely, we’ve taken one every summer since 2020, and they’re definitely a way to connect. And when I look back, I’m like, those are precious times. And, you know, they can be challenging. And sometimes the challenges, when you’re away from your home and you’re uncomfortable, you know, camping, they think they don’t like camping, but every time we go camping, they have a great time. They can be, you know, character building. And so I remember those fondly.

Jared Mees [00:04:29]:
We’re going on one this summer. This summer is going to be easy going. We’re just going to go down the Oregon coast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:34]:
Those moments are so important, and they’re going to be things that your daughters are going to think back on, remember fondly as they get older. Whether it’s the. The fun times or the squabbles in the car, the moments where you pull off the road to be able to see something cool, you know, it’s going to be those memories that they’re going to relate to. So it’s. It’s so exciting to hear those things. Now, I know you said your daughters are getting older and, and as your daughters do get older, as all of us that have daughters get older, there is the struggle that we go through as dads, which is allowing for us to be able to help our daughters to find that balance, that balance in having independence while still being who they are. How do you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into her own person?

Jared Mees [00:05:26]:
That’s a great question. And I don’t know that I really think about it as it’s happening, but there’s a lot of connection that I feel like I try to foster every day that just kind of lets them know that I’m there and that I’m around and present for them. I try to be there every day when they get home from school, there when they leave for school. And I think just the presence allows me to be just plugged into what they’re going through on a hour to hour, day to day, week to week basis that I don’t know, there’s. That ends up. It makes it where I don’t really get in their way so much. I would say we have a lot of things going on and so trying to just make space for the small things that they want to do. Like my 8 year old wants to play and you know, you don’t always want to play, but you get down on the floor with them for 20 minutes and it means the world to them.

Jared Mees [00:06:20]:
And then my 14 year old wants space. And so sometimes that’s just like coming in, saying hi and being like, I love you, what are you up to? And then if they don’t want to talk, then just letting them have that moment and then eventually they come around and they want to talk. I noticed that my 14 year old really gets talkative right before bed and right before she goes to sleep, which is kind of like the time you want them to be winding down. And so just being around for the moments that they want you and then being okay when they don’t want you. And I think that’s where I’m not like starved for attention myself. Keeping myself really trying to be my own best friend where I’m not like trying to just go get attention from them keeps me from like being too hovery. That makes sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:05]:
It does make sense. And I think each of us has to find that balance for ourselves and, and also allow for our kids to be able to have that space that they need to be able to be who they are. And that becomes hard as they are transitioning, especially transitioning from that phase where they Always want to be around you to that phase where they’re like, nope, I need my space, I need to be away and I close my door, whatever it may be. But yeah, I completely get it. And I remember times where I’ve gone through that myself. As you think about your daughters and what you’ve done to be able to really work on that bond with them, what are some intentional ways you think that you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters even through challenging times?

Jared Mees [00:07:50]:
Well, I think that I have a. We’ve got things that we focus on together on a day to day basis. My 8 year old is learning to read and so reading with her every day, it’s very basic. But reading, drawing, making art, it’s just day to day easygoing stuff that doesn’t feel like, oh, I’m building a bond with my daughter. But over time it kind of builds this repetition of like, this is what we do together and kind of gives them confidence in that they can, they’re developing skills and you’re watching them develop skills and encouraging them to be better while like really noting the improvement that they’ve made or noting something specific. Even if you don’t, you know, have the time to like look at like something small that they’ve made that they’re excited about, you can like, I always have the time to just be like, oh, that’s cool. I like this thing. And I think that’s like, I like this specific drawing of this the way that you did the cat’s whiskers or something versus just like, oh, that’s nice honey.

Jared Mees [00:08:52]:
And so I’ve really tried to like, because I don’t have all the time to sit down and praise them for everything they do, but there is an element of just calling out specifics of something that they’ve done that makes them feel seen. And that’s specifically my 8 year old. But you know, with my 14 year old I do it as well. And so I think that builds like the bond of like, I’m seen, I’m, I’m noted, I’m known. Even if it’s not a big time investment, just like calling out specifics of something that they’re doing. So that’s just like a little thing I do. I think I learned that from a book too. That said, even if you don’t have time, just noting a specific will make the connection for the kid that you are listening.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:34]:
Let me dig a little bit more on that because you know, showing them that they’re seen is important and I think One of the other things that I’ve noticed is that it’s so important with daughters to be able to let them know that they are both valued and heard. How do you show your daughters that they’re valued and heard?

Jared Mees [00:09:52]:
Well, my daughters are pretty loud and gregarious and like, in your face. And so it’s like, they are definitely heard all the time. I think it comes down to, like, important moments where they’re trying to say. It’s really like during moments of friction. That is probably where it really becomes like, am I being heard or not? Because we listen to them all the time talk about whatever they’re talking about. But it’s like there’s the moments where they need something specific or like, I didn’t. I don’t think that you did this. That you vacuumed even though I asked you to vacuum is like, I did vacuum.

Jared Mees [00:10:29]:
Well, you need to vacuum better. Let me show you how to do it. It’s like, I already know how to do it. You already showed me. And it was like, well, then why didn’t you do it correctly? And like, there’s these moments of altercation that stepping back and not allowing the heat of the moment to get in the way of. Of what they’re trying to tell you. You know, even if they, you think, you know, they did a bad job vacuuming, hearing out that they think that they did a good job and that they’re, you know, they did try and like, acknowledging that while then continuing to offer the input of how to do it better, I think is. Those are like the difficult moments, I think is really where you have to focus on making sure that they’re heard while also not letting them off the hook.

Jared Mees [00:11:16]:
Because I think it’s important to instill that kids know quality is necessary for them to be like a fully fleshed human. They’re going to have to be able to do things in a quality manner. But I don’t know if that makes sense. But it’s ultimately during moments of altercation or friction, allowing some space for them to say what they need to say while also not backing down from the truth that you’re trying to get across. And that can be a fine line. That can be difficult. I think as a man, it’s easy to get angry in those moments. And so you really have to keep your eye on what you want to get accomplished in the conversation versus being right or not being talked to in a sass with sass or anything.

Jared Mees [00:11:58]:
It’s like allowing what they need to say to get said, but Then knowing that the end of it, it’s going to be a. There’s going to be the. Some sort of, like, lesson is going to get taught, and you’re going to feel okay about it. I feel like dads and feel like they need to be heard, too, you know, because I live in a family with three women, and so it’s easy to, like, just have it be a lot of alternating energies and a lot of talking about disparate subjects. And, you know, you can kind of get lost in that sometimes. So it’s important to feel like you’re heard as well, you know, in those

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:31]:
moments that are challenging. I know that there are times as fathers where we’re not going to make all the right choices. We’re going to make mistakes along the way. There’s going to be errors of judgment. What’s a mistake that you made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

Jared Mees [00:12:51]:
Oh, I don’t think I’ve ever made a mistake. No, it’s. There’s mistakes, you know, get made all the time. And I think that the one thing that I’ve. I’ve learned to say is. And this, like, somehow fixes it all the time is just saying daddy was wrong and just saying it plainly and quickly. And it really does just, like, help the whole thing. And you have to swallow your pride a little bit to say it, but once it’s out of your mouth, everything is like, all the tension goes down.

Jared Mees [00:13:21]:
Once you’ve made a mistake, you say, daddy was wrong. And it’s generally the mistakes I make are in, like I said before, probably letting my anger or, like, my agitation get the better of me in a specific situation because I have a certain set of emotions going on that my kids are not privy to. And I decide to snap at one thing and say, oh, you didn’t do this or you didn’t do that. You didn’t do the thing I asked. And then they say, no, we did. And then I’ve just spent all this time yammering on and getting upset about something that I was just wrong about. And so those are the moments, like, think of growth for me really is like, just saying daddy was wrong. And I think it’s hard for men to admit they’re wrong, but it just feels good once you say it, because it just lets the pressure off.

Jared Mees [00:14:13]:
Like, we don’t always have to be right or get it right, but it feels good to kids to, like, understand that, you know, you’re a human who makes mistakes. And I think trying to hold up some sort of standard, gold standard where you never make mistakes or you’re never wrong or even the illusion of that is just too much pressure on a human. And so it’s kind of nice to, to be able to just admit that and admit it up front and quickly. And it just lets a lot of the air out of things. It’s like we think sometimes that if we say we’re wrong that like our life’s going to end or that we’re going to be less of a man or just there’s some worthiness factor that’s going to enter, but you know, that’s just a lie. And so just quickly copying to things that you’re wrong about is really helpful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:00]:
Definitely. And I know that there’s plenty of times where I think being vulnerable will definitely open things up and allow your daughters to be able to see not only you in a different way, but see relationships in a different way and allow for them to feel differently about the way in which they kind of maneuver through life. So I know that you’ve done a lot of really cool things with your, your daughters and pushing them and encouraging them. You have your own passions and dreams. You have a lot of things with music that going on. You’ve done music with your, with your daughters along the way. Talk to me what you have done over your daughter’s lifetimes to be able to support them in pursuing their passions and dreams.

Jared Mees [00:15:41]:
Yeah, I mean, both my kids dance. They’re really into dance and acting. So it’s, it’s a lot of just driving to and from you. Just the work a day, driving, being in the car, taking them to the thing they want to do. And it’s. You don’t always want to do it. But the barometer I use is like, they’re happier when I pick them up than when I drop them off. And that is worth doing it.

Jared Mees [00:16:03]:
And like, I say that to myself and I say it to other people like, oh man, it’s so much work doing this driving for dance. But it’s like the happiness that you see on their faces when you pick them up from the thing they got to do, that you got to provide the money and time and effort and the car and the gas, et cetera. It’s worth it when you see that they are happier and consistently happier and like, that’s what ultimately makes a happy life. And then also, I don’t know, my 8 year old’s working on a play. She really wants to write a play and so she can’t really type or know how to like format a script or anything, but she knows exactly what she wants the play to be about and she has all these big creative dreams. So like we recently got her play from like in her head to. On a first draft and then we went through it and made it better and better and my 14 year old got involved and so she’s gonna be. We got it all printed out recently and we have.

Jared Mees [00:17:02]:
She had, they had picked the kids, they want to be in the play. And so my 8 year old is going to be directing it and my 14 year old is producing it and we’re going to put it on at the warehouse that we have and just kind of staying out of it and letting them. My 14 year old has a phone now, so she’s texting all the parents to get all the kids to show up for the rehearsals and you know, they’re working on all the costumes and stuff. So just like helping out with stuff like that and being involved while also not like taking it on as like my own project and kind of like letting it be whatever quality it’s going to be, it’s been fun. It’s like in a lot of times I would have jumped in and like made it this super extra over the top thing, but then it kind of becomes my project. It’s nice to sit back and have it be completely theirs. But providing the tech expertise to get things printed and to like share numbers with peop, you know, kind of the executive producer role, I suppose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:01]:
You know, one of the things that I know that we talked about at the very beginning was that over the last couple of years you had a bit of a scare, you had a bit of a mental health issue that you were dealing with and you had to maneuver through that period, that period in your life with your kids. Can you talk to me about that? And some of the things that you had to do to be able to not only get yourself in a good place, but also to help your children to understand what was going on and help them to better maneuver through that time.

Jared Mees [00:18:35]:
Yeah, you know, I’m an open book about it, but I, I had a mental health issue basically. Like they used to call them nervous breakdowns, but it’s basically a mental health event where I was not really able to function in the capacity that I normally could function because my nervous system basically was shutting down. And so for about three months I was not really the person that, that I normally was. And while I was recovering and this was a Period of basically getting clean and getting sober. I wasn’t a huge alcoholic or anything, but I definitely, I smoked weed every day for 15 years just to deal with my anxiety issue. And so I, when I stopped doing that because I wanted to have a different modality for dealing with my anxiety, there was a transitional period basically brought on a long term anxiety attack slash nervous breakdown. So the transition to getting clean really was difficult. And you know, with my 14 year old I was able to discuss it a little bit because she knew that I smoked weed and we live in Oregon and it’s a very accepted thing but it was, you know, something I had to tell her.

Jared Mees [00:19:46]:
Like I’m doing this to get better, worse. But in the meantime it’s really difficult for me to just deal with things I normally deal with. Noise was a big problem, really difficult to deal with noise for like nine or 10 weeks. And so just being in a house in a normal volume house was really difficult. And so I was like, I had to just explain that I was going through a difficult time. And they’ve gone through difficult times. They go through difficult times every day, every week. And so they understand difficult times but they didn’t understand, I think that I had to go through a difficult time and they didn’t understand why it was taking so long.

Jared Mees [00:20:24]:
And so I was just having, just having to explain the nature of what I was going through in a way, way that they could understand. It was difficult. It wasn’t easy to. Because you can’t really get too clinical and detailed because they kind of tune out. So it was really just about like I just need things to be simple and you know, I’m getting sick in my brain a little bit but my brain’s gonna get better. That’s kind of what we had to tell our 8 year old. And then my 14 year old, I was a little more upfront with her about the, the way things were working in reality. But by and large they were the North Star in the end of it all.

Jared Mees [00:21:01]:
You know, I was doing this for them to be better, not worse. And I feel like I’m definitely a better dad today than I was. I wasn’t bad before, but it was like I’m a better, I’m more confident person and I like myself better. And I think that shines through to the way I parent now. So it’s been a positive thing for them overall. But the transitional period, it was sad. It was difficult for me to try to note. I couldn’t give them what I normally give them.

Jared Mees [00:21:30]:
And you Know, but knowing that it was the best I could do at that moment and allowing that to be okay, that was what I had to focus on, that this was okay and I wasn’t messing them up. And for them to see someone go through something hard and to be better, because they really noted, oh, you’re better. I just noticed we’re doing all sorts of loud stuff and you don’t have any problem with it. And, like, that was really awesome when that came around for them. And they just, like, noticed that I had gone through something at hard and how I dealt with it. And I don’t know, maybe they’ll remember it. They’ll probably remember it as they grow up, but I don’t think there was hardly any moments that were, like, traumatic. There was a few times where I yelled because I was just, like, overwhelmed by my own emotions and the noise.

Jared Mees [00:22:12]:
And like, those were the times that kind of, like, necessitated conversations afterwards. But I don’t think it was. They were pretty quick and dealt with. And I have a support. My wife was super supportive and my extended family was super supportive. My friends were super supportive. So it was. I was able to get away when I needed to get away and deal with my own stuff, away from the audience of my family when that.

Jared Mees [00:22:39]:
When that needed to happen. So I really am thankful to them for, you know, being the North Star and being the guiding light for, like, this is why I’m doing this and why I’m going through this difficult thing. It’s not just for me. It’s for me first and for them second. But definitely they were, like, a huge important thing for getting me through it. I don’t know. I could talk about this for, like, hours and have. Obviously.

Jared Mees [00:23:00]:
But that’s Cliff Notes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:01]:
And what would you say to other dads that may be struggling with their own mental health issues and maybe they’re not getting the support that they need at this point.

Jared Mees [00:23:10]:
Um, gosh, say like that. Really examining at the bottom of it, like, what you need and whether or not you’re getting what you need and. And knowing that every day doesn’t have to be so hard. You know, often when you’re dealing with a mental health issue, it’s because there’s something underneath it that is basically just not working. And then we string it together and jury rig our lives so that it will work, and it’s often with substances and that really just examining what is it that’s not working and taking, like, a moment and knowing that just like, admitting it doesn’t mean you have to fix it. But admitting it is definitely a first step, and then deciding what you can do to fix it incrementally, if possible. And if you can fix something incrementally with discipline and with small changes, that’s definitely, I think, a better way than trying to go cold turkey like I did, and then, like, having to fall off the rails. But, like, the body keeps the score.

Jared Mees [00:24:17]:
And eventually you will have to reckon with the thing that is not working in your life, whatever it is. And to reckon with it slowly and incrementally over time is much easier than just having it reckon with you one day and having to deal with it all at once, one day. So I would say it’s just being honest with yourself about what you need. And it really takes time. Taking time away from your family and taking time away from the stress of life and examining what it is you’re doing and why you’re doing it and what is important to you and what you want to do better and what you think you’re doing great. And like, that’s probably through a journal or some sort of, like, cataloging of your life in an organized way can be really powerful. But we often don’t take time for ourselves. As fathers, we’re kind of the ox that has to just continually pull.

Jared Mees [00:25:15]:
And we think that to take time or to not to admit that we are not strong is a failure in and of itself. And I think it’s ultimately the opposite. To, like, take time and to admit that we need help, even if it’s just to ourselves, is super powerful and actually makes us twice as strong. And I think that there’s a current in, like, men’s health that is moving that direction, that examining your problems makes you stronger, not weaker. And I’m excited for that because I really think that a lot of men suffer needlessly just because they don’t think that. They think that if they admit they need help or that they aren’t as strong as they put on, that they are, that somehow that’s going to be the end of something. And really, it’s just the end of your ego. And your ego dying or being minimized is actually a really positive thing for your.

Jared Mees [00:26:14]:
For your life, for being a father, for being a provider, for being a man. It’s like, it’s super important that that happens. It feels like the opposite in the moment, but it’s really important that that happens at some point in your life. I think.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:28]:
No, I think that was great. And I guess one of the other things that I was Thinking about is you talked earlier about the fact that your daughter is now transitioned into middle school and she’s moved into this. You know, you were dealing with your own issues. She’s now going into middle school and there’s a lot of things that happen in middle school, a lot of changes that happen in the lives of our daughters. Talk to me about that transition for you and balancing supporting her going through this, but also dealing with the changes that come with that and maybe the interplay with the mental health challenges that you were going through.

Jared Mees [00:27:02]:
Yeah, you know, as my daughter turned 13, I was kind of going through the mental health transition and I just cried and cried like a baby for God, like an hour one night. And it was just like kind of mourning the transition that like my baby was gone, my little girl was gone, and not feeling like I knew the new person that they were. And it’s not so black and white like that, but it felt very black and white at that moment and that it was like a new person had been placed where the old and the old one had been taken away. And I think it was important to have that moment of like acknowledging the transition because I think often the transitions are kind of just glossed over as we go through life and that we don’t get the moments to really acknowledge internally what’s happening for ourselves. Like, of course we have birthday parties and quinceaneras and bat mitzvahs and whatnot. But there’s gotta be an internal reckoning with the transition that’s happening so that you can then treat them in the now and be like communicating with them in the now and not have this constant mourning or sadness that it’s time has passed me by and where did my little girl go? And I think there’s a element of letting that out and acknowledging it. And that’s what these coming of age parties are supposed to be about. But I think often fathers don’t really do the emotional work to truly transition for themselves and the way, and like the way they’re thinking of their daughters.

Jared Mees [00:28:42]:
And I think it’s healthy to have some sort of internal moment with a journal or with yourself, just to like acknowledge that you tried your best for them, you did your best for them when they were little, and now they’re. You’re going to do their best for them as they’re this age and every age after that, you know, and then it’s really. Nothing has changed in terms of your commitment to the person, but it’s like your commitment to them being this and not that I think is important to them, really living in the now, in the present. This can take some pressure off, at least for me. It’s like taking some pressure off just having some sort of like internal transition moment, like emotional acknowledgement, like a ritual or something that is yours, that is specific to you and feels right to you rather than this, you know, these big outward public displays. Those are great and those are gonna happen, but it’s like, did you really get what you needed out of that? Did you really acknowledge it internally to where you can now transition with her and not just continue to think you have a three year old when you have a 13 year old and be frustrated that you don’t and feel like the time where did all the time go and feel sad. There’s so many emotions that come up that we press down, you know, that are nostalgic memories and et cetera. And it’s like those need to be acknowledged.

Jared Mees [00:30:05]:
It’s important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:06]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call Our Dad Connection 6, which are six more questions that delve deeper into you, you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jared Mees [00:30:14]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:14]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Jared Mees [00:30:19]:
Joyful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:19]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Jared Mees [00:30:24]:
Take life one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:26]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Jared Mees [00:30:30]:
Let’s say drawing. We all like to draw together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Jared Mees [00:30:37]:
Let’s say to love yourself and love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:40]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Jared Mees [00:30:45]:
Life is long and there’s lots of transitions and to take time with each period because it will soon be gone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Jared Mees [00:31:02]:
I would say letting your own ego go and letting expectations you may have on yourself go and just being present with your kids as often as you can in small ways is important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]:
Well, Jared, I just want to say thank you. If people want to find out more about you and what you’re doing, where should they go?

Jared Mees [00:31:24]:
They can visit tenderlovingempire.com that’s my business. I run with my wife that we sell the art of 500 different artists and we run a record label here in Portland, Oregon. And or my Instagram is just aradmeese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:38]:
Well, again, Jared, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for being so honest and open. About the the highs, the lows, and everything in between of fatherhood and your own journey and being a father. And I wish you all the best.

Jared Mees [00:31:54]:
Thanks so much, Chris. I appreciate you having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:56]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:32:27]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the want you now Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Building Unbreakable Bonds: Chris Singleton on Fatherhood and Love

July 20, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

In the latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes an extraordinary guest: former professional athlete, best-selling author, and inspirational speaker Chris Singleton. This heartfelt conversation dives deep into fatherhood, resilience, and the profound ways dads can nurture strong, confident daughters, even amidst life’s toughest challenges.

Chris Singleton opens up about the joy and responsibility of raising his young daughter, sharing intimate stories—like their first daddy-daughter dance—that remind us how essential it is to be present and cherish each moment. He emphasizes intentional fathering, recognizing that quality time matters more than quantity and that even simple routines, like reading together or affirming your child’s beauty, play a vital role in building self-esteem and resilience. As Chris Singleton says, “Your presence, it matters. Even when you think they don’t see you there… your presence, it matters” 28:18.

A powerful part of the conversation addresses difficult topics: teaching compassion, navigating conversations about differences, and helping children process a sometimes divided world. Inspired by his personal journey through tragedy and the loss of his mother, Chris Singleton shares how he uses children’s books and open dialogue to foster empathy and curiosity in his children. He encourages dads to model respect for all, even when encountering different beliefs or backgrounds, and to proactively address hard questions rather than shying away from them.

Other highlights include practical advice for approaching conversations about race, mistakes Chris Singleton made early in fatherhood, and strategies for raising compassionate, curious kids in the age of social media. Vulnerability plays a central role; letting children see emotion and grief, he explains, not only builds trust but also reassures them that it’s okay to feel and share openly.

Ultimately, the episode offers a hopeful message: embracing love, forgiveness, and open-mindedness at home can prepare the next generation to lead with unity and understanding.

To every dad looking to grow deeper connections with his daughter—and to anyone seeking inspiration in today’s world—this episode is a must-listen. Hear the full story and practical tools by tuning in to The Dad and Daughter Connection—it may just change the way you parent, and the way you see the world.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:53]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to talk together, to work together to help you to be able to make those meaningful connections with your daughters one step at a time. It’s not always going to be easy. It takes time, it takes effort, and you do have to work at it. But it is so important to put in that work and to know that putting in that work is you are going to be able to build those connections and build those true bonds with your daughters that you want to have every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that are offering you an opportunity, an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow and to put some, I’m going to say, tools in your toolbox that you can take with you. And you may not take everything, but my hope is that you have an opportunity to be able to take something, whether it’s one thing, five things, 10 things that you’re like, ah, that’s something that I’m connecting to. And, and today we got another great guest. Chris Singleton is with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:
And Chris is a former professional athlete who played for the Chicago Cubs. And following the loss of his mother in a racially motivated mass shooting, Chris has now become a nationally renowned inspirational speaker and best selling author. And he travels all over the United States and beyond to be able to spread a message of love, of compassion, and of really helping others to be able to think, think differently about the world around us and how we talk to one another, work with one another. But even beyond that, he’s a father of three and he’s got one daughter. So we’re going to be talking about his own experience in being a father to a daughter. And we’ll also talk about some of the journey that he’s been on and some of the things that he has been doing with his own kids to be able to help them to live in the world that we’re in today. So I’m really excited to have him here. Chris Singh, thank you so much for being here today.

Chris SIngleton [00:02:53]:
Absolutely, man. I’m grateful to be on talking about my baby girl. Girl, love it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:57]:
Well, I’m really excited to be able to be here today and to talk to you. I know we just saw each other at a recent conference that you were speaking at, and this is a topic that you don’t always get to talk a lot about. You mentioned your daughter in your speech, but I love it when we get to delve into fatherhood. And I guess first and foremost, I wanted to ask you about that relationship with your daughter. And I know she’s still young, but in her life so far and in your life with her so far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Chris SIngleton [00:03:28]:
Yeah, I think one of the most meaningful moments thus far is the first daddy daughter dance we did. You know, she’s almost three. And so at two years old, that daddy daughter dance and she was actually dancing. I was like, oh, it’s just going to be just her standing around and no, she was getting after dancing and wiggling and we had a great time. And there was a point where, you know, one of the older girls at their school started dancing with her and I just saw her. I was getting like a little emotional. Like, man, this is what a blessing it is that I get to be her dad and not only protect and provide for, but just be her friend. As she grows older and I’m looking at her, I just started getting emotional.

Chris SIngleton [00:04:06]:
So that was probably a moment where I actually stopped and just felt the moment. Because so frequently you have these experiences with your kids and you’re just like, oh, it’s an experience. You don’t really stop and just take it all in. And that’s one that I know in 20 years I’m going to remember that first daddy daughter dance that we did and how I was getting emotional. Like, man, how cool is that? I get to be her dad. So that was one so far.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:27]:
And like you said, your daughter is still young, but I’m sure that there are some ways in which some intentional things that you’re trying to do to be able to strengthen your bond with your daughter. So talk to me about some of those things that you tried to do intentionally with your daughter to be able to build that Unique bond with her versus what you’re doing with your sons.

Chris SIngleton [00:04:46]:
Yeah. And I think it’s super important because my boys, I coach them in baseball, I coach them in sports. And so she sees me doing this. We know. Even when we do bedtime, sometimes we’ll take the boys to bed first, and they’ll be talking about me coaching them. They’ll be talking about something baseball. And then my dad said. Then my daughter says something about, hey, Daddy, what about me with ballerina? Or what about me with this? And I’m like, you know, daddy loves that too, sweetie.

Chris SIngleton [00:05:09]:
And, you know, I can’t wait for you to go to your ballerina class on Friday. And so we have those same moments where it’s like, yes, I have my time with my boys, and I kind of combine the time with the boys sometimes, but I need to do a little better about splitting them up. Hey, older son get some time. Younger son gets some time. And most of the time, it’s like, hey, Daddy, with the boys. And then it’s like, daddy with baby girl. And whether it’s just reading with her the other night, I noticed it because I didn’t notice this with my boys. How.

Chris SIngleton [00:05:33]:
And I don’t know if you know, the stereotype is girls learn so much quicker. They’re so much smarter than boys when they’re young. But my daughter was literally sitting down in her. In the rocking chair that we usually sit in before bedtime, and she was flipping through this book as if she knew exactly what she was doing at 2 years old, and she’s pretending like she’s reading, and I’m sitting there smiling at her, and it was a beautiful moment. I’ve got this nickname for my daughter, and of course, I told you guys at the conference that I call her Chocolate Chip. And so every time I’ll say, hey, who’s my Chocolate Chip? And she’s like, I am. And I said, do you love dad? She’s like, yes, I love Daddy. And so we have these little small moments.

Chris SIngleton [00:06:07]:
But I know one day when she’s a little older, I might be dropping her off at school. And I’m like, who’s Daddy Chocolate Chip? She’s like, dad, come on. So I got to cherish these moments right now. And I surely, and I truly am

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:17]:
now, no dad is infallible. We all make mistakes. We’re humans. And I guess even this could be with your sons, too. But with your daughter, what’s a mistake that you’ve made? And what did you learn about fostering positive connections? With your daughter?

Chris SIngleton [00:06:33]:
Yeah. I think the biggest mistake so far is just thinking when I’m spending time with all three of my kids, that I’m spending time with every single one of them. And I didn’t do that with my daughter. I’m picking my boys up from school, we’re taking them to the batting cage real quick, Then we’re going back to get baby girl. Or it’s like, hey, my middle child likes to play golf, and so I’ll go play golf with him. I’ll let the oldest stay at home. And I’m spending quality time one on one with my older boys. And I wasn’t doing that with my baby girl.

Chris SIngleton [00:06:57]:
And my excuse, because we have to give ourselves excuses. I used to say, man, she’s so young. Can I do with her? And I realized you can do literally everything with her, too. And so I started to try to be more intentional about saying, hey, maybe this Friday I’m picking baby girl up early, and I’m taking her with me. Whether I’m riding around to the bank or whatever it is, just having her with me, spending that quality time, not just all three kids, but just with her. And I think that was probably a mistake I made early, is just having the excuse. Well, she’s so young, I don’t know if I can do anything with her. And I realized once I started bringing her with me, it doesn’t matter.

Chris SIngleton [00:07:28]:
You can take her just about anywhere. Even if we’re on the golf course, she’d like to just sit in the golf cart drinking juice box by herself and watch Ms. Rachel. So, like, sometimes it’s just bringing her with me and not using the excuse, oh, well, she’s too young. I think that’s a mistake that I made early on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:43]:
Every one of us, as fathers of daughters, are doing what we can to be able to try to help our girls to feel both valued and heard. What have you done thus far to help your daughter feel that in your relationship to date?

Chris SIngleton [00:07:59]:
Yeah. I think every kid, but especially daughters, they find their confidence, they find their beauty, and they’ll ask daddy or mommy, hey, do I look beautiful? And my daughter is obsessed with those words. And so every morning when we get baby girl dressed and we’ll put clothes on her, she doesn’t like it, she’ll let us know immediately if she doesn’t like the clothes. So we already know at a young age she’s going to be some type of fashionista. And so she will put on her clothes. If it’s not a dress, she doesn’t want it. So we have to change her clothes and put on a dress and we finish and we do her hair, whatever it is, she’ll always give a little twirl and say, daddy, do I look beautiful? And I think she’s asking for that recognition. And I tell her every time I say, baby girl, you’re beautiful before, and yes, you’re beautiful right now.

Chris SIngleton [00:08:41]:
And so just hearing those words, I think is so important. Building that self esteem, knowing, hey, in my faith, I’m fearfully and wonderfully made, like God made me the way that I am, and I’m beautiful on the inside and out. And just hearing that from dad, I think it hits deep. Because yes, she asked mom, but she always runs to me and asks me to, hey, daddy, do I look beautiful? And she does a little twirl and I say, baby girl, you look so beautiful. And you see that smile, you see that confidence. And I never want that confidence to waver. And so as kids grow, there’s middle school where kids use mean words for no reason, but it’s just part of the gig. And there will be a time where I’m sure somebody’s going to say something about my daughter that, you know, isn’t the nicest thing.

Chris SIngleton [00:09:19]:
And my hope is that she’s heard from her mom, from her dad, from her family, like, I am beautiful, I am amazing, I am smart, I am courageous, I am all these different things. And so if she hears otherwise, it should be in one ear and out the other, because she knows she is. And that’s what I’m trying to instill at this young age. And hopefully she gets older. I’m sure there’s going to be still be those parts of her where she’s, you know, crying because X, Y and Z happened. But I want her to know deep down inside, hey, I’ve always heard who I am as a person. And so if somebody has something else to say about me, that’s a problem with them and not with me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:52]:
I mentioned at the beginning that you speak all over the world. You have been bringing a message of love, your neighbor, to the world in many different ways. And your message of love, your neighbor really came out of an incredibly personal tragedy. How has becoming a father changed the way you think about that message today?

Chris SIngleton [00:10:14]:
Yeah, well, I think initially the only reason why I started writing children’s books is because I’m thinking, how do I even tell my own kids about my story? It’s very traumatic. It’s very glass half empty type of story. Not message but story, I mean, just losing my mom the way that I did and having to tell your kids that, you know, unfortunately there are some people that hate others because of the chemical in their skin that makes them the color that they are or telling your kids, hey, unfortunately, there’s people that judge others based on their first language and all these different things that they’re hard conversations to have with your kids, especially when there’s tragedy involved. And so writing children’s books is the way that I said I can talk about tough things in a non traumatic way. And so yes, there’s going to be conflict in my children’s book, but it’s not conflict of losing a life. It’s a conflict of maybe a kid gets picked on because the clothes that they wear or maybe their hair is a little different or maybe they wear glasses or whatever it may be and so they feel a little different. But in the end of my stories, they’re always celebrated, no matter where they’re from, what they look like or what makes them different. And sharing this with my kids, sharing it with kids all across the country in the world, kids start to look at each other a little different, like, oh man, okay, so we all have something that makes us different.

Chris SIngleton [00:11:17]:
Maybe my grandma does raise me, that makes me a little different. I don’t have my mom and dad raising me. But you know what, that’s okay. This person’s a little different because maybe they’re on the spectrum or maybe they wear glasses or I’ve even had kids would say, hey, Chris, I’ve got six fingers and I thought I was the weirdest kid in the world until you showed that everybody has something that makes them different. Now, you know what? I’m not ashamed of my difference. It’s what makes me who I am. And so sharing this with my kids, sharing it in children’s books is the easiest way for me to talk about tough things in a non traumatic way. And it’s been a blessing to be able to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]:
As I thought about that, as parents, many of us want to raise our kids who are compassionate and empathetic, but we also know that the world can be divided. What would you say are some practical ways that dads can intentionally model love and respect at home?

Chris SIngleton [00:12:01]:
Yeah, I think first and foremost, I think there needs to be. You have to teach your kids there’s a certain level of respect we have for everyone. In doing so, you say, hey, this is maybe not the way that we do it in our family, but some families out there do it that Way. Now, you don’t compromise on the things that you believe in and things that you hold near and dear to your heart and your morals, but you acknowledge that, hey, to your daughter, like, hey, this is the way that some people do it. Now, we don’t think that way, we don’t believe that way, but we still going to respect them because that’s how they think, and that’s how they believe. I think having that conversation early on and letting them know you don’t have to compromise on who you are to just acknowledge that somebody else does something different is powerful. So doing that, I think it’s been really cool to see that in the progression. And then it also, when your kids ask you questions, you got to be able to answer them, because even at a young age, it’s like, hey, well, dad, what are they saying? It’s like, oh, well, that’s Mandarin, right? That’s not what we speak, but that’s a language out there.

Chris SIngleton [00:12:55]:
Or you see families that look totally different than yours. You’re like, well, dad, what is that? And you’re like, well, hey, that’s not the way that we do it, but that is out there. And so I just want to teach you and let you know that things may be different out there, and maybe that’s not what you believe or what I believe as a family, but that’s out there. And I think sharing that early on helps people, especially our daughters, understand. Okay, just because it’s different doesn’t mean we have to hate or doesn’t mean we have to do that, because that’s not what we do. But we can still acknowledge that that could save some kids and our daughters from. From learning things elsewhere and not talking to us about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:30]:
I mentioned that you speak to organizations and schools and other groups across the country about and connection. What conversations do you think that parents are avoiding right now that they actually need to be having with their kids?

Chris SIngleton [00:13:46]:
Yeah, just the one I just shared, right? Talking to kids about how some families may look different or how, like, I’ll give you a prime example. When my oldest was five years old, he went to school and he told me how one of the. One of his classmates had two moms, and he’s like, well, dad, you know, where’s. Where’s your dad? And I was like, hey, well, this is how they do things, their family, dad. It’s a little different than what mommy and daddy have, but that is out there. And so sometimes as parents, we’re like, man, I don’t want to talk about that, like, they’re shying away from it instead of leaning in and letting their child know, hey, this is out there. But that’s just not what we do in our family, in our household. And as awkward as it is, as nervous as it makes you to talk about certain things, believe it or not, the kids are seeing it, and they’re putting two and two together in their own minds.

Chris SIngleton [00:14:29]:
And so they need Daddy to be there. They need parents to be there to kind of navigate that for them so that they’re not questioning everything else. That’s what I’d say is important. And don’t shy away from it. You gotta lean into it. In one of my books, I say loving everybody, whether their skin is darker or lighter, whether their skin is looser or tighter, their hair is looser or tighter, whether their skin is wrinkled or rough. Why should it matter? Love is enough. And so we’re talking about different people and different things.

Chris SIngleton [00:14:54]:
You know, some people are on the back end of life, and we just share all these different intricacies about being a human being, and we’re talking with kids about that, and I think that’s beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:03]:
So the reality is that difficult events happen. Things do happen. People see it in the news, and some of these do involve race, hate, or violence. How do you think that fathers can approach those conversations with their kids in age appropriate but meaningful ways?

Chris SIngleton [00:15:18]:
I will say one mistake I made as a. As a dad is sometimes I talk to my oldest. Because, you know, you’re your first. Your oldest is like your guinea pig. You’re just. You’re doing everything you can trying to figure it out, right? And I wouldn’t let my son have Nerf guns. I wouldn’t let him play, like, shooting video games. And one day he finally like, why can’t we do this, dad? And I said, because, you know, Daddy lost his mom to a person with a gun, and it was a very hateful guy.

Chris SIngleton [00:15:41]:
And so then my son became very scared of just anything with guns. And I said, man, I probably told him that a little too young. And so what I should have probably said, going back is like, hey, we’re not gonna do that, because Daddy doesn’t like those. And when you get a little older, they’ll tell you why. And so when things happen in our world, maybe explain it in a way that, you know, maybe that’s not teaching love. Maybe that’s not loving people like we should and how Daddy’s gonna teach you. But that is out there, and that’s why I’m. It’s so important that I’m teaching you this because I never want you to feel that same way too.

Chris SIngleton [00:16:10]:
And so explaining it in that way early on is important. And then as kids get older, especially middle school, oh, my goodness. We think because middle school is the age where you want to shelter them, but life is being thrown at them because some kids are growing up a lot earlier than others and so they’re hearing stuff. And so we have to be proactive in saying, hey, this is what we think, this is what we believe. And yes, this is happening in the world and it’s terrible and you know, we hate to see it, but that’s why I’m teaching you the lessons that I’m teaching you, because I want you to know I want us to lead with unity and love the way that I think that we should.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:40]:
You know, your story is rooted so much in forgiveness. How do you teach either your kids or other kids the difference between forgiveness and ignoring wrongdoing?

Chris SIngleton [00:16:51]:
That’s beautiful. I think even when we give consequences to our own kids, it’s like, hey, I was in a small group with parents and one of our themes was I learned it from a dad who was phenomenal. So I use it all the time. And when we discipline our kids, we say, hey, I’m doing this to either keep you safe or make you better. Single time. I’m either doing this to keep you safe or make you better. Well, dad, why can’t I do X, Y and Z? Because I want to keep you safe. Doing that is going to hurt you or hurt somebody else.

Chris SIngleton [00:17:17]:
But dad, why can’t I do X, Y and Z? Well, I want to make you better. You’re not getting better as a person by doing that. So that’s why we have this consequence, right? And so in every scenario, sharing that has been really neat. And so I use it for everything. I mean, literally everything. Daddy, why can’t I have, you know, candy right now? It’s 9:30. You know, eating candy right now. You know, you probably don’t want to brush your teeth like you’re supposed to.

Chris SIngleton [00:17:40]:
That’s not going to keep you safe, right? You’re going to have cavities. You’re going to do X, Y and Z. It’s been a huge tool for me even as my kids get older. Well, dad, why can’t you buy me the nicest car? Well, I don’t think that’s going to make you any better. You got to have some sweat equity in this deal. And so if I give you everything, I’M not making you better. And so I’m going to use that with everything. And I think that’s the tool that all dads should have when they.

Chris SIngleton [00:18:01]:
They had to discipline their kid or have to say no.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:04]:
You know, a lot of dads worry about saying the wrong thing when talking about race or bias with their kids. What kind of encouragement would you give to parents who want to start these conversations but are feeling uncomfortable?

Chris SIngleton [00:18:16]:
Yeah, well, we have to do the work on ourselves first and figure out, make sure we’re in a good space to teach. Because the worst thing you could be is a hypocrite and you’re telling your kid to do something and you’re doing the exact opposite. And so I think that’s the number one thing. You lead by example. I don’t want to touch back on the whole forgiveness piece just really quick, because I don’t want to rush past that. When I think about forgiveness, forgiving doesn’t mean that there’s no consequence. There’s no accountability. Right.

Chris SIngleton [00:18:41]:
So if I forgive my daughter for doing something, I’m still going to say, hey, you still got time out. I still love. You know, I love you, but you still have to sit in time out for a minute because that was not kind to do. That was not smart. You didn’t listen. So it doesn’t mean that I forgive and just pretend like it didn’t happen. No, you’ve got to learn from your mistakes. But I also say my faith, belief, forgiven.

Chris SIngleton [00:19:00]:
And we all are forgiven if we receive that. And so it’s a line where it’s like, hey, there’s accountability, but there’s also grace. And I think you got to have both. And so I want to just touch on that really quickly because I don’t want people to think that forgiveness is letting the person off the on the hook. No, there’s going to be consequences, But I forgive to move forward. And I think that’s big.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:18]:
Some of the things that you’re talking about really are. I’m hearing you, that you’re encouraging your kids to be curious. They really try to see the world in a broader view. What are some simple habits that, that dads can build into their lives that help their kids to grow up with a mindset of curiosity instead of fear toward others?

Chris SIngleton [00:19:38]:
I think a big one is watching sports. You know, I said, we’re gonna talk too much sports. But, you know, you got the World cup coming up. You had the Olympics. You know, when the Olympics are here, learning about different countries. Well, dad, what’s Botswana. I don’t know. Let’s look it up real quick.

Chris SIngleton [00:19:51]:
Let’s look up what they do in Botswana. Let’s look up their culture. So having these. These conversations is really cool. In our household, soccer is big because my wife is from Brazil. And so because my wife’s from Brazil, I’m sure my daughter’s gonna grow up playing soccer because mommy’s gonna want her to play soccer like my wife did. And so, you know, you’re gonna learn about different cultures. You know, the more that you play sports, and if you’re a dad that likes sports, you know this.

Chris SIngleton [00:20:13]:
The longer you play sports, the more that you’ll play with people that are from different places, different cultures, different whatever. And that’s a beautiful thing to teach your daughter. One of my friends, his daughter was actually really, really good in soccer. And then she started playing in college, and she started playing with girls from around the world, and she’s like, whoa, you know, there’s different levels to this. And you realize that once you start playing at a higher level. And so watching sports, learning about different countries, the World cup, the Olympics, and then you dive deep when you watch with your daughter, like, hey, let’s look up Morocco. I always love looking up language, food, and where it is on the map. And so those are three things I love looking up.

Chris SIngleton [00:20:49]:
And so if we’re watching France, because we think France is going to win the World cup, and we’re like, let’s look up France. Let’s see what they got going on over there. And having those conversations, it’s fun, and it’s in a proactive way. And then when something may happen in the world, you’re not, like, circling back, man. I don’t. You’ve never talked about this place before. It’s like, no, we want to be upfront about different places in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
I’ll ask you one other question about sports, and that really comes down to the fact that I’m sure that there are things that have happened in your life through sports that have provided you some lessons and things that have helped you to be the father that you are. So what lessons from sports or teamwork have influenced the way in which you father your kids? Kids?

Chris SIngleton [00:21:27]:
Yeah. Well, I. I’ve read some statistic, and I’m going to butcher it, but I. I saw, like, most women in leadership played sports at a young age, and I don’t know what the percentage was, but it was a high percentage. A high, high percentage. And so, dad, you guys can look that. That percentage up So I think sports are good just to put your daughters in sports. I think it teaches accountability, it teaches leadership.

Chris SIngleton [00:21:46]:
It teaches leading by example, because your teammates won’t buy into anything you’re saying unless you’re doing it too, so you got to do that. It also teaches failure. Failure and realizing, hey, we’re not going to succeed in everything all the time. But how you respond to that failure is everything in life. And so if we turn the ball over in basketball, or we strike out with the bases loaded in softball, or if we miss a free throw when we really needed to in basketball, like, whatever it is, how we respond to that is how we will make up majority of our lives. So those are some things that sports has taught me as an athlete.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:16]:
You know, I think about the world today and how social media has really created a lot of division. How do we help kids hold on to hope and kindness when they’re constantly exposed to negativity online and in the media?

Chris SIngleton [00:22:31]:
Yeah, I actually did some work with our legislators about this because I saw that social media has just become so divisive. And I love the stories where it’s like the kid with a lemonade stand out at the first tee, raising money for his buddy in school that has cancer. I love those stories. We need more of those stories. But it seems like we get pushed and we get fed the beast of the algorithm is anything divisive just gets. Gets pushed to us even more. And so censoring or monitoring what our kids are watching are engaging in is important. And then making sure, because we have to make sure that our kids aren’t the ones that are bullying or on the other side of that.

Chris SIngleton [00:23:07]:
And we all think, especially our daughters, like, oh, our daughter is just. She’s so amazing. She’s the nicest person ever. She would never. Until we started reading some of the stuff that they’re posting, we’re like, hey, we might have to have some conversations. So being proactive and not being blind to that is important as well, because we never think it’d be our kid to be the bully until we find. Find out that it’s our kid that’s the bully. And so just monitoring what they’re watching, what they’re saying.

Chris SIngleton [00:23:28]:
And then I always say there is. It is a blessing and a compliment to have high expectations for your kids. And so with our daughters, I have high expectations that you won’t do this online, you won’t say this online, you won’t be that person online. And so if that’s my expectation for you, it May be high because I’m monitoring your stuff. I’m making sure you don’t say X, Y and Z. I’m doing that at a place of love because I have these expectations for you. You. And making sure that the algorithm that they have isn’t one that’s going to fuel hatred and division.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:
You know, you’ve inspired a lot of audiences through vulnerability and honesty in what you share in front of the groups. How important is it for dads to let their kids see emotion, grief, and healing?

Chris SIngleton [00:24:11]:
Oh, my goodness. It’s so big. Because if our daughters, our kids especially, just grow up thinking that dad doesn’t show any emotion, sometimes they’re gonna think they shouldn’t show emotion or they’re not going to come to us because he won’t understand. Because I’ve never seen him get sad, right? So if they’re sad, you know, I probably can’t tell dad because he won’t understand. I’ve never seen dad sad before. Now, if we’re open and vulnerable, it’s like, you know, I can come to dad with anything because I’ve seen him have the same emotions that I felt and he’s going to feel with me when I share this with him. I think that’s big. And for so long as husbands and fathers, we think, man, we have to be that rock that nothing shakes us.

Chris SIngleton [00:24:46]:
Us, right? We’re the foundation of the family, and nothing should shake us or hurt us. But in doing so, sometimes things won’t get to us because, hey, he’s not going to understand. He won’t get it. Because I’ve never seen him say that he messed up, or I’ve never seen him say that he’s grieving right now. And so I think it’s so important that we’re open and honest with our feelings and our emotions. Even other day, I’m watching a video in the car, and I saw this video. It’s like this kid had his dad at one of his games, and before the game, he got his son a new baseball bat. He hit a home run for his dad on Father’s Day, the dad catches it outside of the fence, and he’s like, I got it.

Chris SIngleton [00:25:23]:
I got your home run ball. And you see the son kind of point to the dad, the outfield. And I’m crying real tears, man. And my daughter, my son, they’re like, dad, are you okay? I said, daddy’s fine. But this made me feel emotional because this is a beautiful moment. And so I have happy tears right now, guys. And so like having those conversations, them, they see that dad has feelings too. And yes, we’re strong, yes, we’re going to protect our baby girls, our daughters.

Chris SIngleton [00:25:48]:
But they need to know, hey, we have feelings too. So anything that they feel they can share with us as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]:
What legacy do you hope to leave not only through your speaking, but through your role as a father?

Chris SIngleton [00:25:58]:
Yeah, one non negotiable that I have as far as my legacy is. I don’t want my kids to ever think daddy made a huge impact on the world, but he didn’t make a huge impact on us. I think that’s a, a huge failure as a man that I could have is if I do that, I want them to say Daddy was an amaz person. Not only to people around the world, but to us. He was dead. He was at our daddy daughter dances, he was at our games where we had our first hit or our first home, whatever it may be, he was there. It’s just being active and knowing that they have somewhere to run to or to talk to is huge. And then all the life lessons that I share with them, you know, I just hope that they keep 10% of them.

Chris SIngleton [00:26:32]:
That’d be my legacy. Right. I’m sharing stuff all the time and make sure you’re saving. We’re gonna do a Roth IRA for you young so you can do X, Y and Z. All these things. I just hope that they remember something of this stuff that I’m instilling in them and in doing so, maybe they run into a problem when they get older and they’ll say, you know, my dad always told me, and then they’ll share something else and that’d be huge legacy for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:52]:
So if every family embraced the idea of loving their neighbor, how do you think the next generation would look different from the one we have today?

Chris SIngleton [00:27:00]:
Man, what a beautiful question. I think that kids will grow up knowing that there’s going to be differences in the world. There’s going to be different faiths, there’s going to be different languages, there’s going to be different. Different Everything doesn’t mean different means bad. My wife is from Brazil and in Brazil the culture is all family. You don’t really move away too much in their culture, right? You don’t go away for college. I know you’ve got daughters that are going to college and all this stuff and they’re kind of moving away. And that’s not really the culture in Brazil.

Chris SIngleton [00:27:26]:
It’s all about family and having dinner together on Sundays. And so sometimes we could say you know what? Maybe I want that culture for me, even though I’m American. When you learn about something different, when you learn that, you know, sometimes times in some cultures they don’t use technology, they just sit around the table and talk and have meals together on certain days. I like that. And so maybe we can put that into our family values as well. And that’s beauty. When you see that when kids growing up, that different doesn’t mean bad. Different just means different.

Chris SIngleton [00:27:54]:
I think our world would be a lot better place now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:56]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. You ready?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:03]:
Let’s do it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:03]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:08]:
I’d say right now it’s just very gentle. Right now, gentle is my word.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:12]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:17]:
Your presence matters. Is the best advice I’ve received. Your presence, it matters. Even when you think they don’t see you there and you’re just there for six hours, or are they really going to care? They’re so young. Your presence, it matters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:34]:
Right now I’d say he’s reading books together. She loves that. So reading is our activity right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:44]:
Hard work is important. Would probably be. My biggest thing is like, hey, working hard is important. In a world where AI makes stuff easy and there’s shortcuts to everything, hard work is still super important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:55]:
And what’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:59]:
I’ve learned that sometimes I need to stop and take in the moment more because I’m young guy and I had to grow up really quick and so I’m always ripping and running and doing that, you know, all these different things. But sometimes stopping and just being present in the moment is the greatest blessing we could ever receive. And so that’s something I’ve learned about myself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:19]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Chris SIngleton [00:29:26]:
I’d say having high expectations for our baby girls is important. And never get so caught up in that you have to provide that you forget that being there matters just as much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]:
Now, if people want to find out more about you, what you’re doing, your books, etc, where should they go?

Chris SIngleton [00:29:43]:
My website’s chrissingleton.com and I got all the social medias. If you just search up C. Singleton underscore two or just search up Chris Singleton, you’ll see all my content and stuff there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:54]:
Well, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for not only sharing about your own journey as a father today, but sharing your message of love thy neighbor and help us think a little bit differently about the way in which we not only talk about this, but treat others. I truly appreciate the message. I truly appreciate the time and I wish you all the best.

Chris SIngleton [00:30:15]:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:17]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being correct perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:30:47]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

The Power of Presence: Building Strong Bonds Between Dads and Daughters

June 22, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

What does it mean to truly connect with your daughter? That’s the central question explored in the latest episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, where Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes guest Brandon Smith for an honest, insightful and at times emotional conversation about fatherhood, mistakes, and building resilient, confident daughters.

From the start, Brandon Smith distinguishes between “intended” and “unintended” moments in parenting, emphasizing that the unscripted, everyday experiences often make the deepest impact. Whether it’s a trip for just the two of them or sitting quietly in support during a crisis, simply showing up consistently is the anchor of a strong bond. As Brandon Smith shares, “the small moments mattered the most” — a lesson he learned not only in his journey as a dad but also through the advice of other fathers.

The episode dives deep into the challenges dads face: resisting the urge to “fix” everything, sitting with difficult emotions, and learning to ask open-ended questions that give daughters the space to vent, reflect, and find their own solutions. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Brandon Smith steer the conversation toward agency, urging fathers to build their daughters’ confidence and resilience by empowering them to make decisions — even allowing for failure as an important part of growth.

It’s not about being perfect. It’s about being truly present — listening, apologizing when you get it wrong, and making your child a priority. Brandon Smith reminds listeners that kids are far more forgiving than we think, as long as we’re willing to acknowledge our mistakes and keep trying. Traditions, whether as simple as a regular dinner or a unique holiday ritual, also play a role in creating a safe foundation daughters can count on, even as they gain independence.

Fathers of daughters — whether your relationship is close or still growing, this episode of “Dad and Daughter Connection” is packed with real advice, vulnerable stories, and practical tips to help you show up as the dad your daughter needs.

Ready to deepen your connection? Tune in to the full episode and join Dr. Christopher Lewis and Brandon Smith on the journey to raising strong, independent women.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love that you come back. You come back to learn, to grow and to find new ways to be able to build those intentional connections with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]:
And it’s so important because we have to show up. We’ve got to show up every day. We’ve got to learn from the things we do well. We got to learn from the things that we mess up on as well, because there’s going to be times that are going to go perfectly and then other times where we’ll. They may be an epic fail. And that’s okay. That the fact that you do show up, the fact that you do come back and you’re willing to, to learn and to hear others stories about their journeys says a lot about you and it says a lot about where you want to be as a father. This podcast is here to give you some help, some perspective, some thoughts on fatherhood.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]:
Every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone through their own fatherhood journey and they’re still going through their fatherhood journey. And today we got another great guest. Brandon Smith is with us today and Brandon is a return guest, I’m going to say, in some aspects, not he wasn’t a return guest from this podcast, but for those of you that have been listening to me for a while, you know that I had another podcast called Dads with Daughters, and Brandon’s a past guest from that show. So if you want to find that episode, go over to fathering together, you can check that out. It’s still out there. And he’ll add some hot sauce to your fatherhood as well. And I’ll leave it at that because and tease that out. But I’m really excited to be able to have Brandon on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
We’re going to be talking about his own journey with his daughter. And I look forward for you to get to know him as well. Brandon, thanks so much for being here today.

Brandon Smith [00:02:33]:
Chris. I’m thrilled to be on and I love, I love what we’re going to be talking about here today. I’m very, very passionate about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:38]:
You know, one of the things that I love starting off with when I think about fatherhood is all of us as dads want to create those meaningful moments where we, we truly are able to, to connect with our daughters. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Brandon Smith [00:02:58]:
So I’m going to answer that in two ways. So there was the intended moments where you get to plan them, but then there’s the unintended moments that you, that you don’t get to plan them. I would argue the unintended moments are probably more impactful. But let’s talk about the intended moments. So I’ve got three kids. My daughter Abby is my oldest. She’s 24. She’s graduated, working a full time job.

Brandon Smith [00:03:18]:
She’s doing great. We’ll talk more about that then. I have a son who’s Noah, who’s 21, and then a son Aaron, who’s 18. Well, whenever my kids were 12, I would always take them, just me and that kiddo, to Disney World, just me and that one kid. So we could just do whatever they want to do. They didn’t have to negotiate rides and restaurants with their siblings. And we just get that time together. And I kind of kept that tradition going with Abby.

Brandon Smith [00:03:38]:
So when she went off to University of Georgia, she was in a sorority. The nice thing about sororities is they have a lot of planned events. So they’ve got like parent weekends, but then they have mommy daughter weekend and then they have a daddy daughter weekend. So I did that with her every year. So there was always times I was going there, just me and her for weekends and time together. And then even during her summers when she was doing internships and things, you know, she would, we would find time for just she and I to meet up in the city some where and just kind of explore together. So there was those schedule times which I think were really, really important. I would argue that the most important times were the times when she was in crisis.

Brandon Smith [00:04:11]:
And I just sat with her. I was just with her, just being present, not trying to solve it, not trying to offer advice, just sit and listen. And that’s really hard now to be fair. We haven’t Talked much about my background. I have a slightly unfair advantage. I was trained as a clinical therapist, so I do bring that to bear. So I know how to ask questions and listen and do kind of reflective, which does help. But I think those moments were probably the most important, and there were several.

Brandon Smith [00:04:38]:
There was one where when she was graduating from college and there had been a death in her sorority, it really rattled my daughter. And on top of that, she had broken her leg, and she was a big runner, so she couldn’t run. That was her stress relief. Let me tell you, Chris, I’m not sure if I’d want to go relive that weekend with her, but it was an impactful one because I just got to sit there with her while she just kind of raged and vented and just had all those emotions just kind of flood. I once heard somewhere that part of the role of the difference between kind of dads and daughters, or men and women, husbands and wives, and in those dynamics, women are often like the waves of the ocean. They kind of come and go. And sometimes when two. When a wife and a daughter kind of come together, sometimes those waves can create some storms.

Brandon Smith [00:05:18]:
Men are kind of like the rock wall on the side of the coast, and the water’s supposed to kind of hit it, but not move it. So we’re kind of almost supposed to be there kind of that steady, steady, consistent force. I don’t know why that image has always stood out for me, but I know that there’s been moments when I’ve been that kind of that. That rock wall and just allowed her to just kind of vent and rage and not be overwhelmed by that. The most impactful. So a long answer to your question, my friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]:
Not a problem at all. You know, I have heard what you said earlier about being willing to just sit and listen from many people and not to solve. And that’s not an easy thing for dads to always do. It tends to take a little bit of reprogramming in our brains to be able to get to that point. Talk to me about that for yourself. And I know you said you have a unfair advantage, so maybe you can give some advice for dads that are struggling with that in regards to what either you had to do or what you might recommend that dads do, to be able to reprogram their brains, to be able to be more of those quiet listeners versus the solvers.

Brandon Smith [00:06:20]:
I think the first thing is to recognize that those emotions don’t mean that something’s broken or something’s wrong. So the Things that we want to not do is either jump in and say, no, you must not feel this way. You must feel this way. Trying to change what they’re feeling. Not a good idea. That’s really bad. Dads and daughters, moms and daughters, not good. You don’t want to do that.

Brandon Smith [00:06:38]:
Second, it’s okay to sit in that discomfort. I know it was my own case of. With my father, he was very different. He could not handle any kind of uncomfortable emotion at all. There was if I. If you just got excited and passionate about a topic at dinner, he’d get up and leave the dinner table. He’s gonna handle it. And my entire life, if I talked to my dad, he’d stick his hand out in my face, wave it back and forth, and he’d say, stop talking.

Brandon Smith [00:06:57]:
None of my business. He really just couldn’t handle that. So I would encourage dads first to just be okay with sitting there. You don’t have to fix it. And. And that negative energy isn’t going to hurt you or hurt them. We need to give them a safe space to let it out. So that’s first.

Brandon Smith [00:07:14]:
Second step. How do you help them let it out? It’s by asking a lot of questions and just reflecting back. Just. Just by saying things like that sounds really hard. How are you doing with that? And just letting them go or say, wow, that is just. That’s a lot. Or one of the great therapist lines, which you can always use in your playbook, works really well in life. Say more about that.

Brandon Smith [00:07:32]:
You can never go wrong with. Just say more about that. And you can start off by saying that. That guys, that sounds really hard. Say more about that. What’s the hardest part? So really sit in it now. Where dads are going to go wrong. Another part where they’re going to go wrong is they’re going to go, so how do you think we need to fix it? You don’t need to do that.

Brandon Smith [00:07:46]:
You don’t need to jump to fixing it. Just let them go. Let them go until that energy really starts to wane. Now, to be fair, my daughter’s grown up with me, and she has very good skills like this. So there’s times I was doing that with her on that moment, I told you, and she said to me, I know what you’re doing. Stop it. So I had to pivot. And one of the ways for my daughter that works really well is when I then get vulnerable, talk about something I’m struggling with in my life, or I get really kind of authentic.

Brandon Smith [00:08:12]:
She connects really well to that my daughter has never done, she came out this way. She’s never done well with people being not performative but, but, but not being real, not really saying what’s really going on. She cannot handle that. So she actually does really well with me just kind of being open and honest and just calling things the way they are. That actually settles her down. So just having some more of that honest dialog and just being present and not trying to change it. I think those are, those are the moments. And she’ll say today, she’ll say, you know, one of the things I’m most proud of, she’ll say if Brandon Smith me says he’s going to be there, he’s going to be there.

Brandon Smith [00:08:42]:
And as a dad that’s really meaningful. I’m feel myself even getting tearing up a little bit just saying that because what dad doesn’t want to hear their kiddo say that? So I would say those are probably two good tips. Just learning to be comfortable in that and then learning how to just ask questions to help it release. By helping it release, you’re fixing it. So I think that’s probably the last thing I’d say. For dads, you don’t have to have a plan of action with three steps or five steps or a phone call you’re going to make today. It doesn’t have to be that clear cut. Just by helping that emotion go, it’ll make a difference.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:08]:
As our daughters are born, for many years they, they rely so much on us and as they get old they become more and more independent. How did you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence that she needed to be able to grow into the person that she has become?

Brandon Smith [00:09:28]:
It’s a really good question. And this is where we often. So in my professional world, I take a lot of my coaching background and my counseling background and bring it into the workplace and helping leaders get better and those sorts of things. Do a lot of executive coaching kind of work and, and what I think makes this so challenging, it’s kind of like leadership is an art and a science. Parenting is an art and a science. I mean every, every K is a little different. Every situation’s a little different. There’s no one size fits all.

Brandon Smith [00:09:51]:
Sometimes you got to pivot with your recipe. And so where it’s tricky is I’m always trying as a parent, I’m always trying to instill agency. It’s my favorite word. If you ask me, my favorite word on this planet is it’s agency. And for those of you that don’t kind of know the word agency. What we’re talking about when we’re talking about agency for a person, when you have a sense of agency, it’s almost like you tell yourself, I’m enough in the world. I’m not perfect. No one’s perfect.

Brandon Smith [00:10:13]:
But I’m enough. I can get through it. And we have high levels of agency. We have competence and confidence, and we have resilient, and we handle change well. Change doesn’t overwhelm us. What we don’t have when we have high levels of agency is heightened anxiety. Anxiety is the absence of agency. So if you got a really anxious kiddo, just really fearful, kind of struggling with dealing with life, agency is a great antidote.

Brandon Smith [00:10:35]:
I’m always trying to instill that. So the way you instill that is you ask a lot of questions. So, wow, that sounds really hard. Well, what do you think you can do about that? What do you. What do you think you need to do? How do you think you can solve that? How can I help you with that? But you’re. But you’re putting the answers, you’re putting the solutioning, you’re putting the authorship on that, kiddo. So book I published in 2022 is called the author versus editor dilemma. That’s a lot to do with workplaces and leadership and management.

Brandon Smith [00:10:57]:
But I always do a chapter in every one of my books on parenting, and there’s even a chapter in Author editor about that. Like, when should I sit in the author seat and tell them what to do? When should I sit in the editor seat and they tell me what they’re going to do and then I can respond to that. So you want them to have that agency, all solutions to problems. That sometimes means they’re going to fail, and that is okay. Where we need to kind of watch closely is we don’t want the failure to be catastrophic. Failures are good. That’s when you learn. We learn the most in times of failure.

Brandon Smith [00:11:22]:
My midd kiddo, he just went through the college internship process this year. It’s been really tough on college students and interns to find internships this year. It’s a tougher cycle. He had a couple lined up. He waited too long. The offers exploded on him and he had to scramble. And my wife and I were thinking how we could help him. Well, he ended up coming up with an internship on his own.

Brandon Smith [00:11:40]:
He found one, and he’s loving it. And I think the fact he recovered on his own, I mean, that’s really what you want. You Want that level of agency. So all that to say, you know, you’re trying to equip them to solve problems on their own. You’re going to support them. And even when my kids were little, they come home and say, oh, the teacher’s being me. The teacher’s bullying me. It triggers that inner parenting instinct.

Brandon Smith [00:11:58]:
You want to jump in and say, talk to that teacher. I always stopped myself and said, I’m not going to do that. And I would say, what conversation do you think you need to have? I know you can do it. I believe in you. And I said, I’ve got your back. I’ve got air cover for you. It doesn’t go well, you can call dad. Dad will jump in.

Brandon Smith [00:12:12]:
Dad will fix it, but why don’t you take the first crack? I did it with all my kids. I never had to have a conversation with the teacher. They would go back and they had it on their own because I was trying to again equip them to the agency. And also, those are great skills. You’re gonna have to have a conversation with your boss one day. Why don’t you learn that now? So then when you have to neg negotiate your salary or say you can’t work on the weekend, you learn how to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:30]:
Those are great examples. And I think, you know, I’ve. I feel like I’m going through a lot of those myself with my daughter that’s in college right now and figuring out, okay, where do I push, where do I pull, where do I just sit back? And that as you kind of talked about the author role or not. And so that’s always a challenge. And I think it always continues to be a challenge as you sit back and you’re like, I’ve been there. I’ve done that. You can learn from me, but you may need to make these mistakes yourself. And I get that too now, talking about intentional things and thinking in my head of what you just said.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]:
Some of the things that we do are very intentional. What are some intentional ways that you’ve worked throughout your daughter’s life to be able to strengthen that bond that you had with her, especially during those challenging times.

Brandon Smith [00:13:16]:
So my daughter’s a lot like a cat. You have to let her come to you. If you try and go to her too quickly, it’s not going to go very well. So being intentional, I think, is really important. I will say this. I think going back to the word agency, I often joke with my wife. My daughter kind of came out of the womb just frustrated because she didn’t have any agency because she’s 4 and she wants to do stuff. She’s 8 and she wants to do stuff.

Brandon Smith [00:13:36]:
She’s 12 and she wants to do stuff, and she can’t. And it got frustrated. Well, now she’s 24 and she works for a consulting firm, and she can do all the stuff. So I think that’s helped a lot. But I will say the hardest time for us was probably those high school years where it was the most pressure. And every year she went off to college, her feelings towards us improved, her connection towards us improved on her own, she made those things happen because I think she was just seeing her friends and some of their dynamics with their parents, and she realized we’re not so bad. And every time she called, we always made that time for her. So she calls my wife every day.

Brandon Smith [00:14:10]:
She talks to my wife every day. But she knows she can call me and I will drop whatever I’m doing if she calls me. So I think part of it is just being present with her, not being too pushy, but, you know, letting her come to me. The other thing was I always schedule time with her, and I always tell her, you are one of the most important people and most important relationships in my life. I really want to make sure we get to spend time together. And I find things that my kids like. My daughter likes to go to nice restaurants. She likes to try new food.

Brandon Smith [00:14:32]:
So we’ll go try the local Portuguese restaurant, or we’ll try the Persian restaurant or whatever happens to be. And so now that she’s on her own and she’s figuring out career stuff and life stuff, we try to do quarterly dinners. So we’ll do quarterly dinner. She’s still in Atlanta. I live in Atlanta. So we’ll meet up for dinner somewhere and just have a nice dinner and just talk about life, Talk about her career, her boyfriend, all the other things. I think it’s a little bit of both. It’s always kind of being there when they want to come to you.

Brandon Smith [00:14:57]:
That’s an intention and making them a priority. So that’s kind of more of a firefighter on call kind of intention. When the phone rings, I answer it. But there’s also keeping that connected. And I think when you plan something with someone, you’re signaling to them that they’re a priority. So when I tell my daughter, you mean a lot to me, and our relationship is very meaningful. I want to spend time with you. I’d love to take you out to dinner.

Brandon Smith [00:15:15]:
She never turns me down. So those are Some examples.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]:
I love those examples. And I try to have similar things with my own daughters. And I know that it makes a difference. Sometimes they say it, sometimes they don’t. And you have to know that. That you just have to realize that even if they don’t say it, it still matters. Now, none of us are perfect. We all make m mistakes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:37]:
What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughter?

Brandon Smith [00:15:44]:
Oh, goodness. I’m going through my very large inventory of mistakes, Chris. So if I’m pausing, it’s because, wow, kind of a lot. Well, I would say I’ve done the opposite of a lot of things I’ve said. Like, I pushed on her too hard, pushed on solutions, pushed, pushed on answers, pushed for answers. That doesn’t go well with her. So that’s not good. But on the flip side, sometimes I don’t come to her when she’s upset.

Brandon Smith [00:16:06]:
That gets her really mad. So if she’s upset, upset, and she’s sending all the signals that she’s upset, and I’m not going to her saying, hey, you seem upset. And maybe I just don’t want to deal with it. I’m going to be honest. Maybe it’s just one of those times where I’m really tired. I don’t have much in the tank. Like, I can’t deal with her just, you know, her upsetness today, that makes her more angry because I’m not coming to her and acknowledging how she’s feeling. So I think there’s a lot around those things.

Brandon Smith [00:16:27]:
Yeah, it’s tricky. Parenting is such a startup experience. Fail fast or fail forward. You’re always trying to adjust. So, you know, I can tell you another great example, like when she was in high school and applying to colleges and she wasn’t getting the SAT score she wanted and she had one last shot, I mean, take the sat and like, I think it was October of your junior year last time. She could really take it and have it count. And she was procrastinating on studying for that, studying for that, studying for that. And whether this was good or bad to me, I’m not sure.

Brandon Smith [00:16:52]:
But I finally told her, I said, look, you don’t have to study for it. You can keep your same SAT scores, and then you’re going to go to this slate of colleges and they’re all perfectly fine. But if you want to go to this slate of colleges, you’re going to need to get that SAT score up. So you’re going to make a choice. And I said, if you want to go here, you’re going to have to do some studying, which means you can’t go off doing brunches on the weekend with your friends. You can’t do that. You got studying to do. You’re running out of time.

Brandon Smith [00:17:12]:
Time. Well, she went off. She said she wanted to do that. She wanted the other schools. She wanted a better score, but she kept doing the brunches. So finally, I had to go in one day and say, I’m sorry, Abby. I hate to do this. I’m your dad.

Brandon Smith [00:17:22]:
I want to honor your request of what you want. I’m grounding you for the next two weeks. You’re going nowhere. You can study. That’s what you can do. Now, I don’t know if that was the right decision or not. She did end up getting the score that she needed at the end of the day, so just barely by the skin of her teeth, but she got that score. But that was an example where I had to step in and ground her on something that she said she wanted, but she wasn’t living up to her own expectations of herself.

Brandon Smith [00:17:45]:
So. I don’t know. Plenty of times I’ve lost my temper with my kids. But I will say this. One of the big things I did learn in life is your kids really want to have a relationship with you. They are actually way more forgiving than we give them credit for. But they will not be forgiving if you don’t apologize. You have to be the first one to go say, I’m sorry.

Brandon Smith [00:18:02]:
Dad screwed up. I shouldn’t have handled it the way I did. I promise I’m not going to do that again going forward. And she. And she had a moment with me a few years ago. It was Christmas, and my wife and I were kind of in a little bit of a spat. And it was happening on Christmas Day, and my daughter was not happy about that. And so she came over to me and she pulled me aside, and she’s like, what’s going on? She was really upset, and I committed to her.

Brandon Smith [00:18:20]:
I said, I’m sorry. You’re right. This shouldn’t be happening on Christmas Day. I’m going to fix it. It’s not going to happen again. And that’s what I did. But you got to be willing to say you’re sorry, and you’re got to be willing to adjust. And if you do that, our kids aren’t expecting perfect from us.

Brandon Smith [00:18:31]:
They’re expecting, like, that effort that we’re trying so when you say you’re going to make a change, you make the change. But they don’t expect perfect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:37]:
And what do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Brandon Smith [00:18:43]:
I saw an interview with Reese Wither Witherspoon at some point and she, she made a comment and dad, the words that a dad says to their daughter, it’s like permanent marker on their brain. And so I always want to feed her in that way. My daughter, you know, she doesn’t have a lot of money, but she likes to kind of get good fashion. So there’s like you could all these services, you rent clothes and she’ll run clothes, she’ll come downstairs and she’ll be wearing a new dress. And I’ll say, oh Abby, that dress is beautiful on you. You look absolutely just beautiful. And she’s like, oh, thanks dad. But I know that’s, I know that’s feeding into her self conscious and her level of confidence about herself or self talk.

Brandon Smith [00:19:15]:
I always tell her, you’ve got great skills, you’ve got great intuition on people. So I really look, lift up and reinforce her strengths. So not only does she feel kind of seen, but I’m also trying to tell her, you’ve got some great things, don’t lose those. So those are things I really try to be intentional about in my talk with her and also trying to give her support and guidance. Now sometimes it also means not answering her questions. So the recent one she was doing was she’s got a boyfriend who she really likes and we really like. And she’s asking me, she’s saying, dad, I mean, what do you think? I mean really, what do you think? I mean, do you think he’s a good fit for me? I mean, and we like him. And she had a particular thing she was asking about.

Brandon Smith [00:19:49]:
I said, you know, Abby, that’s not my answer. That’s not for me to answer. It’s a question for you to answer. And I laid out some scenarios and things for her. I said, but it’s not for me. She kept pushing on me, pushing on, trying to get me. I wouldn’t answer. I wouldn’t, wouldn’t answer.

Brandon Smith [00:20:00]:
A few days later she came to my wife and she said, tell dad I’m sorry for pushing him so hard. I was having a, it’s one of the phrases that you probably heard your daughter say recently. She’s like, I was having a crash out and I was pushing dad a little too hard and I, I shouldn’t have been telling actually everything’s okay. I’m fine with my boyfriend. So I think knowing sometimes when not to insert your opinions is also important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
You don’t want to have those insert foot in mouth moments as you’re talking to your daughters and, or having to backpedal. So sometimes being silent or as you said, kind of pushing back and allowing for them to work it through probably makes a lot of sense.

Brandon Smith [00:20:36]:
It reminds me there was a Seinfeld episode where, you know, I think, I can’t remember, maybe Kramer had a girlfriend that no one liked. And so they all told him he broke up and we’re like, oh, we don’t like your girlfriend. And then they got back together. Then now it was awkward because they told Kramer we don’t like your girlfriend. But now he’s back with her girlfriend. So I think there’s times when you just have to some things or for them to figure out. And frankly, if she’s happy, that’s, I mean, that’s one of the things we’re going for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:00]:
And how did you support your daughter in pursuing her passion and dreams?

Brandon Smith [00:21:04]:
It’s a challenging one. So in high school, she would come at my wife and me and she’d say, you guys put high expectations on me. You hold me an unfair standard. And it’s funny, Chris, we never did. We never did. We never did. My wife and I are little, a little Gen X in how we raise our kids. We’re a little, wouldn’t say feral, but a little more.

Brandon Smith [00:21:23]:
More like that in this way. We Never had life, 360 on any of our kids. We didn’t track them where they go. We never, once they got into high school, we never looked at the report cards again. Now I’ve never seen a report card for my kids in high school or college because what I told them was I said, your grades are your grades. And my expectation is you work hard and own and be proud of whatever grade you get. If you got a C and you didn’t work hard, then decide to make an adjustment. But if you got a C and you gave it everything you got, that’s great.

Brandon Smith [00:21:47]:
So I think part of it is setting that, pushing kind of that ownership and agency properly on them. It’s your life. Your grades are the beginning of that, but it’s just going to evolve into more decisions that are yours. I think the second thing is I’m always trying to remind her and reinforce to her what her natural gifts are, what her natural gifts and talents. I think so hard she’s trying to fit herself into a box. Like when she was in high school, she took a lot of computer science classes because she thought, oh, I’m a girl, I should take computer science classes because it’ll round me out. It was not her love language. It’s not her love language and she would tell you that.

Brandon Smith [00:22:17]:
But she has a lot of great love languages that she’s really passionate about. And I’m always trying to remind her of that because she’s in this early part of her career where she’s trying to figure out what does she want her career to look like. And so I’m trying to encourage her to pursue those areas where she says more natural strengths and passions because it will. It’ll play out in a much, much more fulfilling way for her. So I think it’s just lifting those things up. That doesn’t always mean that she hears it in the moment. I think that’s another important thing too. Like, if dads are looking for kind of, I do this and I get an immediate kind of response.

Brandon Smith [00:22:47]:
It’s not, it’s not like that. I often, I’ll chat in my author editor book and you want to talk to my clients when they’re like, doing too much for their teams. I’ll say to them, are you trying to win an mvp? Are you trying to win a world championship? Because are two very different muscles. And I think sometimes as dads, we’re trying to win MVPs, like, we want the immediate hug and the gratification in the moment, like we just scored a touchdown. And really we should probably be thinking about more like winning a world championship because, like, those are lag indicators. You don’t really know how well you’re doing until you start to get further into the season. Then you got to get in the playoffs. So touchdowns don’t.

Brandon Smith [00:23:18]:
The touchdown itself doesn’t really matter. So I’m getting more of the payoff way after the fact from her. Not in the moment. And sometimes she’ll dismiss my comments in the moment. But I know I’m planting seeds.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:27]:
What’s one way you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Brandon Smith [00:23:31]:
I would say the simple answer is if she knows. And she’s very respectful of this. She knows if she calls me during the day, I’m going to answer as quickly as I can. If I have to call her back, I will. And I will then clear my calendar to whenever she wants to talk. I will cancel other business calls that I have to make that time for her. Now she does, she does not abuse that. She’s very, very respectful of that and sometimes I’ll tell her I’m tied up, I can’t have a public, let’s talk tonight.

Brandon Smith [00:23:55]:
But I always try and make her a priority when she needs to talk. And so I think that’s the number one way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]:
And when you think back to relationship with your daughter in the past now, what’s a tradition or routine that you’ve created together that really strengthens your bond?

Brandon Smith [00:24:12]:
I think there’s a couple, one for sure is are just going out to dinner together. We love to do that and traveling together. When my daughter and I did our 12 year old trip to Disney, we stayed at a different kind of Disney hotel. And we just walked around all the hotels one night and she picked out what she’s like, oh, I love this one. We should stay here from now on as a family. And sure enough, that’s what we started doing. So I think finding things that your daughter likes that you can share with her is really good. And that can be a variety of things.

Brandon Smith [00:24:36]:
My daughter, she likes sporting events because she likes to sit with people that she cares about and have conversations, but she doesn’t actually care about the event itself. But she’ll go because she likes to have that time together. I think finding those things that we can do, I think are definitely one. And then we have other traditions that we’ve always done as a family, which she actually appreciates. We always try to have dinner together as a family as much as we could. We thought this was normal. Apparently it’s weird. We live in Atlanta, so we live in the Southeast, but every Christmas Eve after church we go to Waffle House.

Brandon Smith [00:25:02]:
Waffle Houses are Christmas Eve tradition. And just things like that that she really likes, I think it provides a lot of that stability. I’ll also say, like as I mentioned to you before, my daughter was never very touchy feely. Like she was never like daddy’s little girl in the sense that she just worshiped me and always wanted to spend time with me. But that has gotten more and more as she’s gotten older. Last time she was over to her house, she gave me probably three hugs before she left the house. And so I do think that, you know, it’s definitely a marathon and a long race, more like trying to win a world championship than it is winning an mvp.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:31]:
Now we always finish our interview with what I like to call our dad connection. Six, six more questions that delve into you as a dad. Are you ready? What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Brandon Smith [00:25:42]:
And this isn’t Meant to be creepy, but I really like this word. It’s intimate. We cover the can. I’m open and honest and things I’m kind of working through. She’s open and honest with things she’s working through. So there’s just a commitment, openness with sharing. Kind of our. We’re very authentic.

Brandon Smith [00:25:54]:
We’re vulnerable. We share needs and wants. We just, we’re just have a very open relationship. So I would say that what’s the

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:59]:
best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Brandon Smith [00:26:04]:
I would say the best piece of d. Bad advice I ever received actually came from a client of mine. And it was because he had worked a very long career with a big company. It’s a privately held company. He wasn’t going to get the CEO job. He was right below it. So he decided to retire and he traveled all the time. And one day his kids told him and he made it a point.

Brandon Smith [00:26:22]:
He was like, I was always going to be there for the big events. I’m always going to be there for the soccer matches and the award ceremonies. And he would fly back in town, he’d go to those events and he thought like, ah, being a great dad. And then his son one day said to him, he said, dad, you were always there for the big moments, but you were never there for the small ones. And the small ones mattered the most. O so I do think the soccer matches really don’t matter. They really don’t. The dining room table, that matters more.

Brandon Smith [00:26:45]:
The being able to like go in your kids room when they’re sad and crying and just sit with them. That matters way more than seeing their baseball tournament or their dance recital. I’m not saying those things are bad. I’m not saying you should dismiss them. But it’s not the same thing because frankly we over index on that stuff. We’re like, ah, I was with them. Dance recital. You were sitting in an Auditorium.

Brandon Smith [00:27:03]:
Auditorium 20ft away from your kid. You weren’t talking to them, they weren’t talking to you. They were doing something and you were watching. It’s not much different than watching your kid play video games. It’s really not any different. It’s not connected. But we tend to think it’s some kind of connection. So I think those small moments are the key.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Brandon Smith [00:27:21]:
Definitely restaurants. That’s an easy one to plug in. Travel. She’s always game for travel. So if I said let’s go to a city and then I’ll and I let her plan it, and we go around and do things. Things, that’s great. So I think those are things that she loves to do that I like to do, too. So those are the two big ones.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Brandon Smith [00:27:39]:
Be true to yourself. It’s probably cliche, but what that really means is understand how you’re hardwired and find a swim lane that honors that. Life’s much easier and more fulfilling. If you go in the direction of the current, you’re already wired to go down. If you try and force it and fake it and go down another path, you’re not going to be happy. If you try and chase other things, you’re also not going to be happy. So I think just finding, really get a good understanding of who you are, figure out, plug that into the world, you’re going to feel a lot, a lot better. And I think that’s hard for daughters today because there’s a lot of pressure.

Brandon Smith [00:28:06]:
You should be a career woman, and you should put off having kids. And that is a choice for some women. They can do that. But some women might decide, I want to have a family. And there’s not as, maybe as much discussion and balanced conversation on different options for women. So I think today, ironically, it’s kind of like almost gone the other way. It’s like, you got to have a career, you got to make as much money as possible. And I know she’s felt pressured to do that, and she’s adjusting what she wants, so being able to help in that process.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Brandon Smith [00:28:38]:
Two quick ones. So first I would say tell them that. Tell them that I want to build a relationship with you. You are one of the most important people in my life. I would love to explore what that might look like or how we could do that. So I think that’s one second that I mentioned earlier. The secret sauce to all this is being able to apologize. That’s the equivalent of fail fast in the entrepreneurial world or fail forward.

Brandon Smith [00:28:56]:
Apologize dies quickly. When you make a mistake, go in quickly and be like, I screwed up. Dad screwed up. I’m sorry. Here’s why it happened. But it’s not going to happen again. They will quickly forgive you. But if you don’t do that, that emotion will see them fester.

Brandon Smith [00:29:08]:
And then that’s when you get World War iii. And daughters are good at waging World War iii. If necessary so you can avoid that with a quick apology.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:16]:
Now, if people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Brandon Smith [00:29:20]:
Yeah, the simplest place is just Google the workplace therapist. That’s my handle. So you can Google the workplace therapist. I’m the only one. Well, there’s one other person in Australia now, but I’m the only other one. So you’ll look for the guy not in Australia and you’ll find me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]:
Well, Brandon, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for sharing this journey that you’ve been on with your daughter. I know it’s not over, it’s definitely going to just continue. But I truly want to say thank you for sharing this and I wish you all the best.

Brandon Smith [00:29:49]:
Thank you. Thank you for all the great work you do for dads out there trying to be better. So thank you for having me. That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:06]:
It’s about being present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]:
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer

We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents? Bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them Be the best, best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can be.

Building Lasting Bonds: Intentional Fatherhood with Adam Angel

June 15, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

In this powerful episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Adam Angel, father, therapist, and founder of the Dads with Wisdom community. Together, they explore what it really means to show up for your daughter—not just as a parent but as a vulnerable, intentional human being.

A recurring theme in their conversation is intentionality. Adam Angel shares touching stories about helping his daughter face challenges, like her anxiety before a swim test and building confidence in new activities like basketball and jiu jitsu. Instead of forcing outcomes, he strives to give her the safety and encouragement to try, fail, and choose for herself. As Adam Angel reveals, “I want you to see what it could look like…I’ll show you, and you can tell me if you want to do it after you try.”

The episode delves deeply into supporting your child through difficult moments, embracing open conversations about emotions, and being honest with your kids about your own struggles. Adam Angel reflects on the need for dads to be “open-hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but to be able to learn from her, and also grieve or struggle through something with her.” These moments of honesty, he suggests, build trust and teach kids about resilience and empathy.

Another core lesson: connection isn’t always about grand gestures; it’s often found in the consistent, day-to-day presence—whether it’s attending basketball games, settling in for bedtime, or making one-on-one smoothie dates. Adam Angel emphasizes that just “showing up and being there” in both small and big ways tells your daughter she can count on you.

This episode doesn’t shy away from tough realities, either—like how admitting mistakes and apologizing as a parent strengthens bonds, or the challenges of allowing your child independence in a world that sometimes feels unsafe.

Lastly, the conversation highlights the importance of community and vulnerability for dads. Through his Dads with Wisdom groups, Adam Angel sees firsthand the transformative impact of men supporting each other, breaking cycles of isolation, and learning together.

If you’re a dad—or anyone invested in raising confident, emotionally healthy daughters—this episode offers a wealth of practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement. Listen now and be inspired to connect more deeply, both with your child and yourself.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:
I love being able to have you here every week because it is an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for you and I to be able to learn and grow together. You know, I’ve got two daughters, you have daughters, and you’re here. And I applaud you for that. Because by showing up, that’s saying something. Because that means that you do want to create a stronger, more lasting relationship with your daughter. And that’s why this podcast is here. This podcast is here to help you, to give you some tips, some tricks, some tools for your toolbox to help you to be that dad that you want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]:
I love being able to introduce you to different people, different people with different experiences that can give you some help along the way, give you some perspective about things that might have worked, maybe they didn’t work, but it will help you to be able to frame how do you want to show up for your daughter. So I am really excited because we are having a brand new guest here today. Adam angel is with us. And Adam is a father of two. He’s got a. He’s got a son and a daughter, and we’re going to be talking about his daughter, of course, but we’re also going to be talking about a community that he has been building over a number of years called Dads With Wisdom. And it’s an. It’s a community that you might want to check out yourself, so we’ll learn a little bit more about that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:22]:
Adam, thanks so much for being here today.

Adam Angel [00:02:24]:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]:
I’m really excited to be able to have you. And for full transparency to everyone. Adam has been on a previous podcast with me. So my old in my past podcast, the Dads with Daughters podcast, Adam was on four years ago, so we’re moving forward in time. And now his daughter is nine years old. And I’m really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper into what’s happened over those years and what’s happened up till now. And I guess to start off today, one question that I, Adam, is, as you think about the relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughter and what made it so special?

Adam Angel [00:03:02]:
One of the most meaningful moments was when she was trying to pass the swim test right before the swim team. This was after we last talked. And I think in terms of being more active and trying to find a thing that she could do physically, that wasn’t something that came automatically to her. There was a lot of anxiety around sort of that or idea that it wasn’t good for her, meaning, like, didn’t fit her. And so really what I was navigating on my end was trying to figure out how much to push and how much to support and sort of leave it to her. And this was like a moment I’ll never forget, because as we had been doing swimming classes, I could see that she was, you know, getting some confidence, and she had. We ended up with this wonderful teacher who I started the training, and then I could see that she needed something from someone else and that had been really good and progressed. And then there was this moment where she wanted to pass a swim test and was really afraid.

Adam Angel [00:03:56]:
And we had set up the swim tester. You know, there was like, some date to do it, and if you passed that, then you had a chance at the swim team, which she could. I could definitely tell she was interested in, she expressed interest in. So anyway, so we’re driving there, and she started to get nervous, and she said, I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to do a swim test. And I said, you don’t have to do it. We’re already in the car. We’re already halfway there.

Adam Angel [00:04:21]:
You’re in your swimsuit. Let’s go there. We’ll be there. We’ll stand there. And if. If you don’t want to do it when you get there, we don’t have to do it, but I want to just go. And she said she agreed. She didn’t really say much, but she didn’t protest.

Adam Angel [00:04:32]:
And she can protest. She doesn’t have a problem with that. So we get there, and at the pool, we’re Standing there and she. They call for kids her age and she looks over and she’s about to say something to me. I see her shed one or two tears and I said, I just looked at her, I’m like, you good? And she just kind of nodded and she would just jump right in. And then she passed the test, which was just awesome. And honestly, right after she passed the test, she just jumped in, like with her friends, and then she started playing the rest of the afternoon in the pool. It was just like a lot of relief on both sides, I think, for both of us.

Adam Angel [00:05:09]:
And I was just appreciating what I took from that. And by the way, she. So she joined the swim team, and then the next summer she was on the swim team as well. And then she did during the year. So just seeing how this progressed. And I’m happy to share more about that, but that moment for me was a lesson for myself on how much to push, to not want it for anything, but for her, but also to not let her sort of go in the house, you know what I mean? And just not see what she might be missing. So, like, you know, here’s what it could be. I don’t need to push you any further than this.

Adam Angel [00:05:39]:
And it was a, it was a great moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]:
Now you just talked about the fact about pushing and trying to help your daughter to be able to achieve kind of those, those passions, those dreams that she has for herself, the things that she wants to accomplish. Talk to me about how you go about that support and what do you do to be able to support your daughter in pursuing those passions and dreams.

Adam Angel [00:06:02]:
What I’ve come to understand is like, I can help her through some low level skill building, meaning, like, you know, she wants to join something more serious. We’re going to give her that opportunity, structure. But first I need to support her in understanding that everyone has fear, everyone has these barriers. And then I show her how this has happened to me and I support her in getting her in front of these situations. Like, like an example was the pool. But later she. She ended up trying basketball and she ended up loving it. But the reason she loved it is she ended up doing a summer camp for a week, which was really high intensity, which I was a little worried that could send her the other way.

Adam Angel [00:06:44]:
But I always give her the opportunity to say, like, hey, like, you can try this and you could step away from it, but I want to just show you what it looks like, you know, what it could look like. My dad used to say to me, better to Be the tail of the lion than the head of the wolves. And I’ve shared that with my kids and they both like it. They enjoy that. They notice that. And last week was the first week that she. And I’ll tell you how that came about, but she decided she wanted to try jiu jitsu and so she did it and she enjoyed it. Whether she stayed with it or not, I’m not sure.

Adam Angel [00:07:12]:
But she stayed with basketball and she loves her neighborhood basketball team now too. So just to think of her last time we talked when she was 5, doing these different activities and just building this kind of confidence in ourself is just quite a progression. And I think ultimately it was, this is what it looks like. I’m here to support you through it. This is what it could look like at the very basic level. I’ll show you and you could tell me if you want to do it after you try it or even in the middle. If you want to give up, that’s okay. But I want you to see.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]:
I love the intention that you’re giving to that. And I guess one of the things that comes to mind are thinking about the intentional ways in which you’re working with your daughter and helping her to be able to not only see you as a real person and understand your background and what made you who you are, but also helping her through those, those fears, those anxieties and more. Talk to me more about some of those intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times. Because we all know that it’s not always easy, but there are challenging times too.

Adam Angel [00:08:17]:
So right around Covid hit, this was a really hard obviously for so many people. And we. She was four and she was three and a half and. Or three and a few months. And my son was just being born, which was crazy, 10 days in. And that was really hard moment. And I think of it as maybe the hardest moment for her and having to not let her go back to her pre K which was such a great place and so like everything from there and before that. But I’ve just like understood that, you know, there is just when you can’t do something, you have to grieve with your kids sometimes.

Adam Angel [00:08:51]:
And at that time I think I was just not equipped with the level of connection to myself and open heartedness for my own grief of what was happening. And I remember she held for a little bit a lot of shame at that time because I was like, you can’t go to school. And she was like basically telling Me, oh, I’m going to school. I mean, she fought me like it was the. I was the worst thing in the world and I was breaking my heart. I remember she, I think she bit me like that. She had never bitten me before, but she felt like that was very bad about that. But I told her, like, that’s what, first of all, that’s what, you know, she.

Adam Angel [00:09:23]:
Even years later, that’s what kids do and we work through it. And I wasn’t shaming her for that. And at some point, you know, sort of as she got older, she and many kids, you know, can hold shame around what they do or how they feel and so on, and just making it more and more open by having these conversations, especially while driving at night in these moments of like, intimacy and just being honest about how it was hard for me and what was hard for me and how I’m open to whatever is going on for her. And so it’s been wonderful to sort of be able to be that person for her. And I’ve grown and learned so much from her about my necessity of being open hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but just like be able to learn from her, but also to grieve, as I said, with her or struggle through something with her. And I think that honesty, you know, doesn’t mean that I’m giving up my authority and my, you know, being able to tell her, hey, this is what we need to do. Sometimes it just means that there’s a softness that’s available to her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]:
And your daughter’s getting older, not yet a preteen. We’re getting close into those tween years. How have you found that you are balancing guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence to grow into the person that she’s becoming?

Adam Angel [00:10:39]:
I had a moment where my wife and I keep having this conversation over and over. Like, there’s some friends that have phones and then I’ve told her she’s not having a phone and I’m not giving her any data when she will. Like, it’s just not on the table and I’ve told her why. And then at one point she was really, you know, pushing and I said, okay, I’m gonna explain again. And I gave her like in depth about how this either essentially she’s could be connected to many things that actually might scare her that people that I don’t know, there’s no checks and so on. And you know, that’s a bit high, high level for a nine year old. But she understood to some degree and Then that same day I said, you know, I wanted me and my wife and I talking about it, but I just decided to go for it because I wasn’t necessarily comfortable with it. But I was thinking this is the opposite way, to provide some opportunity for her to have freedom.

Adam Angel [00:11:32]:
And I sent her out with her brother without us on bikes. So he’s six, she’s nine. And I feel that she’s much more, even much more responsible, more than she already is, especially when he’s around and she’s in charge. I think that’s useful. Then it’s just like, guys go. And she like looked at me like, are you serious? And I’m like, I was like, this is the way that you can go and explore as opposed to on the phone. And I’m not going to come with you. I’ll be, I’ll be out there in 30 minutes or something.

Adam Angel [00:11:58]:
And I told her the perimeter, which was about a mile, we have like a park not too far from us, like a, both a school park and a community park. It’s a good amount of green, plus sidewalks. You know, she doesn’t have to cross many streets at all. And I said, told her she knows the route. Go, that’s where you can go. And I went out there 30 minutes later when my wife was like, can you go right? And I’m like, okay. And when I went out there and they were fine, they were fine. But I just like trying to juxtapose those two for her and for me, because it was hard, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s worrisome, but it was fine.

Adam Angel [00:12:31]:
It was totally fine. And I hope that it will continue to be fine when I send her out every day. So to kind of trust the people that we put her in hands, including

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:39]:
her own, you know, that brings up so much. I mean, and I think back to my own childhood and the way in which I was really a free range child in the sense that in my generation, I think our parents were like, yeah, go outside, go and come back. You need to be back by this time and we’ll see you later. We didn’t have phones, we didn’t have any of that. But, but I think that there definitely is a difference in the way in which we are. There’s a fear in a lot of parents to do that in the safety of our kids and, and whether we should be doing that. And there’s some reality to that as well. And I guess one thing that comes to mind as I hear you say that is that you’re providing your daughter with the ability for her to see that you trust her and that you are listening to her and that you want her to feel valued, heard, and also that you trust her to make good decisions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:32]:
And I guess as you think about that, what are some of the things that you’re doing intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Adam Angel [00:13:40]:
These are day to day things as opposed to like the big story. It’s like I thinking about having conversations about her friendships, little things, these conflicts that seemingly we would might say like what’s really this about this is not important or whatever but. But they’re very important. These are conversations about being enough, knowing that you’re, you’re okay to be different, to set it something as simple as she likes fashion set a trend as opposed to having to follow other people rebutting people or the boys in her class are like characterizing all girls in one way or mistreating her another classmate is so just hearing the story and being like, you know, that’s asking her how she feels about it, what maybe her frustration with it or and so on and then, and then pushing her to know that she’s okay regardless of others view of her, that it’s most important, it’s her own view. And that can seem trite, but it really is so central to her experience because that’s a lot of our hours of her day are with peers. And we make a point, my wife and I make a point of when we’re together, we’re together and like being connected, connected to them and like we do a lot of camping. So now she wears that and I bring that into the situation because I think that gives us space to be connected in a different way and have like her voice heard around different topics and just being with it and not so peer oriented because so much of her life can be because of school. And so like you know, it doesn’t mean they don’t do play dates.

Adam Angel [00:15:06]:
There’d be plenty of that and so on, but just kind of coming back to it and helping her understand herself and how she really feels and so she can rebut other people’s ideas around her with her own.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]:
I love that now none of us as dads are infallible. We’re humans, we make mistakes. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication?

Adam Angel [00:15:31]:
Maybe it’s good to use the day to day so that it feels more normal for people that are hearing it. Because I think when there’s moments where I move to anger, you know, with either one of the kids and sometimes or misunderstand because I made a judgment and about what they were doing and so on, or how they were speaking or so and so forth, it’s like, essentially what I’m doing is the opposite of what I just talked about, which is that I’m not waiting to listen. I’m not seeing my daughter as. There’s an idea in, like, the psychotherapy world that we. That I, like, trained in, this is my. As my profession, that we can see others at times and different moments as objects in our life as opposed to subjects in our shared life. And I think essentially objectify her. I see her as like, okay, she’s just someone in my life, and I can just say or do what I please.

Adam Angel [00:16:19]:
And like, it doesn’t. Again, doesn’t mean that I can’t have my authority of being okay, like, I’m the adult here. But it does mean that in those moments when I made mistakes and I think that they’re frequent enough and I can say, like, these moments, I just sort of like, this is how I. What I want to happen, and it’s not happening the way I want it to happen. And so how I characterize this, essentially, many times we have a parallel process between our kids and us. And like, in these moments, I’m like, I don’t want this. I want this to work this way. And she’s like, well, I want us to have this.

Adam Angel [00:16:49]:
And essentially we’re both having an experience of wanting something and then not be able to get what we want and then having a tantrum of, like, loss around it. Right? Like, I want this. And really what we both need to do on some level, and us first being the adult, is to accept that this is. May not going to work the way we wanted it to. And that sucks maybe for us, depending on situation. And then we can be with their grief if it’s not working out for them either. Or maybe we’re able to accommodate a certain situation. But the point is, is that there are a number of these mistakes.

Adam Angel [00:17:21]:
I don’t think it’s useful just say one big one. I think those happen frequent enough where I just like, oh, yeah, right. I just may not get what I want here. So. And then I maybe act out on my. My daughter by saying, you need to do this or you this. And maybe it comes out in anger. So.

Adam Angel [00:17:35]:
And I have to come back and apologize and then say, like, I didn’t see you in that moment. Or that was hard for me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]:
And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Adam Angel [00:17:44]:
This is a do not say type of thing. Just showing up and being there. Basketball games, those are the more regular big moments. And then the other ones are like putting her to bed, getting her up in the morning, taking her to school. I think just like the regularity, the frequency, the explanations when you can’t, showing that you’ve been thinking about them, willingness to listen to them first, I think knowing when I’m going to be there for you, and so on. I think also, like, maybe moments with others where other people are objectifying your kids and you’re like, no, I’m on your side. And it doesn’t mean that. Again, like, I’m like, you need to be respectful of your teachers, for example.

Adam Angel [00:18:19]:
But if the teacher is acting out on your kid in the sense that they’re not seeing them as a whole person and they’re just kind of treating them, again, like just whoever there will step in and have a conversation with them. But again, I’m also talking like a student conversation today. She may struggle with a particular class. And I ask her, like, is this. Is there anything in this that you could do for yourself to improve the situation? Because, like, it seems like maybe you could have done something here, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not wrong if you’re in your protest. And I got you, I’m on your side here, but, like, look at your side a little bit too. So I’m holding both lenses and. But I think she knows that I’m coming from a place ultimately that I have her back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]:
And what’s the tradition or routine that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Adam Angel [00:19:07]:
There was a period of time that was quite hard when she was younger, where it was she. She went to a different school first. And I like, my funny story was that she’s like, went to a school and then she went into like, the public school. And it was really. She really struggled with it. And I said, I told her, like, if you want to go somewhere else, she said, what she said is, they don’t know how to teach. She’s like five telling me this, like, six weeks into her school. I’m like, oh, my God, this is crazy.

Adam Angel [00:19:39]:
So then I’m like, but I think there’s. What she’s saying was, I don’t want to sit and do worksheets. That’s what she’s saying. I don’t blame her. So Anyway, we ended up trying a different school. But I told her, if you really want to do that, you have to go and do these like tours and stuff. And she did it. So we ended up going somewhere else.

Adam Angel [00:19:55]:
But during that period of time, you know, at the other school, I started this tradition. I took off work on a particular day early. And so when I picked her up on Mondays, we would go just one on one and pick a place and have a smoothie or something. And then we don’t do that every week now like we did, but we do do something else now. For example, right now we’re Wednesdays, we go to Jiu Jitsu. Right? That’s what we’re going to do now. But before was did a practice a day that we did practice basketball one on one. And I do that with my son too.

Adam Angel [00:20:24]:
Like just making that one on one time. And like, this is just for you, me and you connect. But especially when you realize it’s like a season for challenge. Like, more like this month has been really struggling. The intervention is almost always best. Intervention is one on one time and making sure they know that you’re putting them first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:40]:
So I mentioned the fact that you have a site called Dads with Wisdom. And one of the things that I wanted to kind of first start with is that not everybody knows what that is. They may never have heard of it. So bring me back to the beginning and talk to me about the inception of Dads with Wisdom and why did you decide that you needed something like Dads with Wisdom and that other dads needed something like Dads with Wisdom?

Adam Angel [00:21:07]:
Yeah. So my son was born 10 days after Covid. We went home. The doctor said nobody can come and visit for like 60 days. We happen to live near our family on both sides. We were like, why did we do this? Now it’s like, this sucks. So we’re just all alone and just really struggling. I was in the nonprofit world before I went to private practice.

Adam Angel [00:21:25]:
And that was a lot to. And it was there I kind of like decided that just like I’m gonna go and go leave my job and took some time to do it. But then I had more time with my son and that process. I was thinking, oh man, this has got to be a really hard time for fathers. And what came next is I reached out to a few people in my area, Washington, D.C. area, just like practitioners that are also private practice. Like anyone running a group for dads. And nobody was.

Adam Angel [00:21:51]:
There was one person who was a woman who’s who ran at one time and, and I had a nice conversation with her about how she did that. Then I put out emails around it and I got like a ton of responses, but all of them from women, mostly practitioners and many wives asking for this to work. And I was like, okay, I’m not messaging this well or to the right audiences. So I spent some time, created this website and I got in touch with a local called the Breastfeeding center of Greater Washington. And it’s basically like they do classes for mostly moms and couples, but nothing for dads. And so I, you know, we had a good conversation about it. I essentially became like a partner affiliation and we started running them and then it filled up very quickly and I don’t charge that much for these group. And it’s 10 sessions.

Adam Angel [00:22:40]:
I just read all I could read in terms of books and et cetera. And then I just created like this semi structured group where I like, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was like, I think this is like a little bit after this. I was talking to you about this not too much longer after. And what I was doing when I knew enough, what I didn’t know was like, what do men really want? Because I think they were telling me one thing and maybe they wanted something slightly different. But I was like, maybe more emphasizing the topics and such and like kind of like the educational sort of aspect. And then I, I think what really they wanted was a space to discuss this stuff. And it was good to have those topics and structure, but also really important to stay attuned to what they really were wanting that day.

Adam Angel [00:23:20]:
And so what I’ve come to do is like those 10 sessions still exist. I still have those about three times a year. So that’s 30 weeks of the year. And these guys are basically getting more space before at the beginning and the end of these sessions to kind of just say what’s going on for them, but also getting some topic based discussion and also like if they want resources, different topics of new parenthood. These are all for fathers that are first time fathers and new kids. And maybe we meet one time in person now as well. The rest are virtual because I have guys coming from Baltimore all the way to like Virginia Beach. So those are the three areas of my licensing.

Adam Angel [00:23:58]:
But you know, I even have guys sometimes come from outside of the area because this is not really therapy. This is not therapy. It’s like peer based support. So that’s what propelled me to do it and how it started. And now it’s like what surprised me with all These groups that are now actually what would be called psychotherapy groups. And I have multiple of these running and there’s six or so guys in each one and they love it. And I’m better at it than I was five years by a lot. I think a lot of it is my own internal growth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]:
And then sometimes there’s a stigma to being in a group of individuals talking about things that make you vulnerable in that way. So for a dad who’s hesitant to join something that’s like this, what would you say to help him take that first step?

Adam Angel [00:24:41]:
Well, first of all, I usually send them a podcast. Sometimes it’s the best way to get and just to receive it as opposed to having to read. I think normalization obviously is the biggest one. Right. It’s like we all go through this. It’s. And I think when having somebody else that’s going through the exact same thing or very similar at the exact same time is just worth so much. And that’s even before I add anything.

Adam Angel [00:25:04]:
Right. It’s just that. And so just I always tell people like, hey, the kind of person that would be in this group is someone like you, who also is thinking, I don’t know if this works out for me. But I think this person’s committed to being a better father and a better partner maybe and a better. And so on. So that’s who’s going to be there. And when you go there, it’s got its own process. So you don’t have to jump right in.

Adam Angel [00:25:25]:
You may. And many times these people do. And so it really depends on the kind of group. But I think that’s why I like talk to people for like 15 minutes before trying to maybe longer, 20 minutes, 30 minutes just to see like, what do you really want here? And people have come and gone in the groups and actually gone to different groups. So like I do like an hour for right before birth for free for people if they want to just like think about how they’re feeling and like prepare for what will happen at the birth and then like the first days of postpartum experience. So like that’s like a free hour. Then people then tend to sign up for the 10 week new dads and then many times a little later, these, they’re men that just like, hey, I just want a more depth oriented conversation with other guys. And that’s the sort of dads 2.0 groups that we’re doing.

Adam Angel [00:26:07]:
I’ve been creating some other groups as well, dads that have lost in like, you know, early infancy or in late pregnancy. I have group for them and also for them if they’re parenting after that loss and like, you know, so they can have a space for being which, which has its own unique thing things to it. So I would say to them like, they’re like you. And there’s, there’s this huge value in having that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
There truly is value in that. And I think it is important to be able to put yourself out there and be able to. And I’ve said this before, to be vulnerable not only with other men, but with your kids in many different ways. I guess as you look at the groups that you’ve created, the ability for people to come together, what’s one story, and I’m not asking you to break confidentiality, that really captures the impact that you’ve seen for dads that have taken part in these groups.

Adam Angel [00:26:58]:
This happened yesterday, I’m not kidding in this sweet group. This like conversation was just very. This is a dad’s 2.0 group and the dad was talking about one dad was basically struggling as newer to the group. I am not the preferred parent. It’s really hard for me. I’m not sure, you know, sort of essentially the level of I’m not at the level of connection I would like with my kids. And other guys were like, first of all, this is a normal pattern that goes up and down. Sometimes times you preferred, sometimes you’re not.

Adam Angel [00:27:25]:
And this guy basically said like. I don’t think he was trying to speak about his, the impact, but I think it was obvious to me. He was like, basically in the last six months that he’s been in the group for about a year and some. And he said I’m the preferred person parent. And I used to get, you know, essentially like overwhelmed and dealing with my kids. And I would essentially, I don’t know his reactions to that, but ultimately now they come to me. They’re all over me all the time. And that’s hard, but it’s a lot better, it’s a lot different than it was where they didn’t know that I was kind of like that connection and depth of relationship just wasn’t where it is now.

Adam Angel [00:28:02]:
So that’s one that just came to me off the top of my head. But I was just like, just appreciating how much he cares, how much he’s worked to be that for his kids. And that took a lot of reflection and self determination.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]:
So one of the other things that comes to mind when I was thinking about this was when we’re talking about Vulnerability and men being willing to connect with other men. Why do you think it’s so hard for men to build authentic community and, and how does that impact their parenting or their ability to be the father that they want to be.

Adam Angel [00:28:39]:
Yeah, actually that. To bring this up when in previous answer. So I appreciate you asking it because I think that’s also how I sometimes. So the group I said like, I mean, people tell me and you can tell me if it’s true. For years I’ll say to someone that they have close friends, but they still don’t have these kind of conversations they need to have where they can actually say what they’re really feeling around life, parenting and their experience as a husband after kids and so on and so forth. And usually the guys will not be like, yeah, I have close friends, or I don’t really have this kind of relationship with friends, but I still can’t have this conversation. And the guys will say like, especially when they’re leaving. And like, I have them like, kind of like just people like say really kind things to them as if someone’s leading a group or something and the dad’s 2.0.

Adam Angel [00:29:20]:
And they’ll say something like that, like, like this has been a different place where I can actually say like, hey, you know, today I didn’t feel like wanting to be a parent. I just, I was mad about being a dad and I didn’t like it. I don’t want to be like. And that’s a really hard thing to say. If I say that somewhere else, someone’s going to judge me. And all the other guys in the group, like, not usually we know what you’re talking about. Because they also know that they’re committed. Just because they’re having a protest has nothing to do with their love.

Adam Angel [00:29:42]:
Those two are not incongruent. And so just naming the frustration and difficulty has nothing to do with the level of care and knowing that the people around you are not going to judge you and know that that is what vulnerability is. I had this wonderful quote from my. One of my mentors in my training institute that I do on a regular basis. And he says there’s a difference between transparency and vulnerability, but only you will know it because it’s an internal experience. I can be transparent with you, Chris, and I can also, I can tell you about my life, but if I don’t feel the vulnerability, then it’s not vulnerable. And usually the vulnerability requires a little bit of worry that this could be harmful to me if you use this against. And that Fear that around that is like, that’s actually.

Adam Angel [00:30:29]:
Well, we of course can explore it. But the bottom line is that’s a risk and you’re taking it. And you’re taking it. Your willingness to take it is its own bond between the guys. And everyone knows it when you’re doing it. You know it first and they know it usually second. And so that’s been something that I’ve actually said as a part of our conversations and times with the guys. And there’s a good response to that.

Adam Angel [00:30:51]:
And they’re able to engage in another level of vulnerability. So I don’t know if I answered all the question if it was like why it’s hard. I think is like. I think the answer is that it’s scary and that we’ve been hurt in a lot of ways to taught not to do that. That’s the real world. Like. And you shouldn’t be vulnerable to every single person because it can be. There are people that have unfortunately not the best intentions but.

Adam Angel [00:31:12]:
But there are plenty that you can. And you can navigate that by just by figuring it out as you go through the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]:
When I think some of that goes back to trauma in regards to what individuals have experienced in their own life. And there’s many men that have generational trauma or patterns that they experienced growing up. And I’m sure you’ve seen that in groups in different ways. How would you say that dads can begin to break those cycles for themselves?

Adam Angel [00:31:40]:
Yeah, I mean this is my work. So like when I’m not doing groups, I’m doing individual therapy. And my focus of training has been in complex trauma. And what that really means essentially is we adjust ourselves as all people do. And even when we’re wonderful dads that we are, Chris, our kids, we’re not going to be perfect for them and therefore they will have to adjust. And there’s. It just is part of life. And that adjustment means that we’re going to create strategies to protect ourselves.

Adam Angel [00:32:03]:
And we had to do that as kids. And so when I work with people individually and in the group, we notice what they’re really wanting for themselves, which is this intention that we’re going to state together. So for example, I would like to have greater self confidence or some state or experience in myself or maybe I want to have more capacity to be vulnerable. But that is where we’re coming from, from the adult side of what we want. Now when we are engaged in relationships, it’s very easy to fall into the strategies that worked for us at one point. Or at least attempted to work for us as a young person in a life where we don’t have any agency as a child, you don’t. Ultimately you’re worried about your, the people that care for you, caregivers and the culture around you. And it has rules.

Adam Angel [00:32:47]:
And you realize those rules. You’re very quick to learn that as a kid until you keep yourself safe through this process. And those strategies, they need to be confronted and addressed. And the way that you do that is by sitting with someone else who cares and has, can support you. And when you do that, working out, for example, in therapy, you get something where you can notice with the person, deepen into the emotions of what has happened, but more importantly, what’s coming up for you now and how you might be allowing in these same things. And I see that allowing with a lot of compassion doesn’t mean we’re intentionally doing it, but allowing in old strategies which are determining things in your life you no longer want. And when you can be that with that, with that, in this kind of process, we can interrupt generational, cultural, all the things trauma that you’ve been through. And again, I’m using that word lightly because I know sometimes people talk about trauma, but it’s, it’s just your experiences or you were limited to what you could do and be and who you could be.

Adam Angel [00:33:47]:
And we’re trying to just say if you want to be something else, you can, but you gotta address it and be with it. And you have to do it with someone who also has this and other people and in the group, other people that are committed to doing the same. So that that’s where the growth can happen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]:
Now if people want to find out more about dads with wisdom, where should they go?

Adam Angel [00:34:05]:
Yeah, so website is dadswithwisdom.com and that’s where the groups are mostly. And if there’s anyone who’s experienced loss in parenting, you know, early life, you know, early pregnancy or late pregnancy loss, I do those groups too. But I keep that off the website and go to Adamodulotherapy.com for. That’s for the individual work and also therapy group. Because I just, it can be really intense for someone who’s lost to see those pictures of babies that are sort of on the Dads of Wisdom website. I also am doing a retreat in the fall. It’s the first time I’ve ever done that. And this is sort of listening.

Adam Angel [00:34:38]:
I went to a men’s retreat myself, was profound and very thoughtful, pushed me further. And so I was like you know, I could do this. So I’m going to be doing something in the Shenandoah area and it’s going to be exciting. So that’s also happening now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:52]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? I don’t know. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Adam Angel [00:35:04]:
Maybe an easy one. Loving, caring, Something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:07]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Adam Angel [00:35:11]:
I’m not sure if it’s the best, but it’s true. This too shall pass. It’ll change again. It’s okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:17]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Adam Angel [00:35:20]:
Sometimes it’s just sitting and having a nice snack at this, like, particular place that we like, have like good little drinks and we just kind of like look out the window. We have a good conversation. So I think that’s one of the big ones. I think I mentioned other, other ones earlier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Adam Angel [00:35:38]:
You’re enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:39]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Adam Angel [00:35:42]:
I want to be silly with it and say I’m enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Adam Angel [00:35:54]:
I think what we’re talking about here is obviously don’t give up stuff. You’re going to be okay. All these things that we’re just mentioning. But you need, you need. If you want to be a rock, you need a mountain, you need and to sit on. And I think that’s. That’s the men that can support you. And so you doing it alone is.

Adam Angel [00:36:10]:
It’s the start to do not really possible in the same way or it’s going to be really detrimental to do it. So you need to be the person that you want to be, the dad that you want to be. You need other men to support you. You’ll get where you want to be that way much easier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:24]:
Well, Adam, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today for the work that you’re doing with dads with wisdom and for sharing the journey that you’ve been on with your daughter up till now. It’s still keep going to keep going, and you’re going to keep learning and it’s going to be an amazing journey along the way. But I truly want to say thank you for being here and I wish you all the best.

Adam Angel [00:36:44]:
Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged, engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:37:17]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Redefining Fatherhood: Building Strong Bonds With Your Daughter

June 8, 2026 by dadofdivas

Fatherhood comes with its own set of joys, challenges, and constant learning curves—especially when raising daughters. If you’re a dad looking to deepen your connection with your daughter and help her become a confident, independent woman, the latest episode of Dad and Daughter Connection is an absolute must-listen.

Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the podcast’s mission is clear: to provide real stories, expert advice, and practical tips so fathers can show up as the dads their daughters need. In this episode, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Michael Mirza, a father of two, to revisit his parenting journey since he last appeared on the show four years ago. As both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Michael Mirza share, the parenting landscape is always shifting, and what worked yesterday may need to be reimagined for the children we love today.

The Power of Presence and Pause

A central theme is the importance of being present. Michael Mirza recounts a recent moment with his daughter at a quiet park, where they simply paused to enjoy nature and each other’s company. He shares how his daughter’s insight—“it’s really nice to just pause and be quiet sometimes”—reminded him of the value in stepping back from the busyness of life and savoring stillness and connection. These simple acts, often unplanned, create the foundation for deep and lasting bonds.

Embracing Neurodiversity

The episode dives deeply into Michael Mirza‘s and his daughter’s shared experience with ADHD. He discusses how receiving a diagnosis became an opportunity to empower his daughter, framing ADHD as a unique superpower rather than a setback. The family’s approach—open conversations, focusing on strengths, and using creative analogies (like referencing Elsa’s powers from Frozen)—drives home the message that differences can be celebrated, not shamed.

Nurturing Independence and Repairing Connection

Another important discussion centers on balancing guidance with independence. Michael Mirza talks about giving his daughter room to grow, whether it’s letting her walk to a friend’s house or manage her own routines. He stresses that letting go of control so children can rise to the occasion fosters confidence and trust.

Crucially, the practice of apologizing and intentionally repairing after conflict is highlighted. Michael Mirza emphasizes humility, admitting when he’s made mistakes, and always reaffirming his love—no matter the frustrations or tantrums.

Final Takeaways

From outdoor “treasure hunts” to creative home projects, this episode is filled with real-life examples of building strong, resilient relationships. Michael Mirza’s core advice to dads? Meet your daughter fully in her world, free of self-consciousness and stereotypes—paint her nails, dance, and never be afraid that vulnerability will compromise your strength as a father.

Whether you’re a new dad or have years of parenting under your belt, this episode of Dad and Daughter Connection offers wisdom, encouragement, and the firm reminder that being present and authentic is what matters most.

Tune in and let these stories inspire you to build an even stronger bond with your own daughter.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]:
Christopher Lewis, and I’m really excited that you’re back again this week, because every week I love the opportunities that we have to be able to learn and grow together. I’ve said this many times, but you know that I’ve got two daughters myself, and this podcast came out of the fact that I wanted to be able to talk to other dads about what they were learning along the way. And I knew that dads are not always the best at asking questions. They’re not always the best at reaching out. And when you have a daughter, that relationship is an important one, and we’ve got to show up. We’ve gotta be willing to do what we have to do to be able to be the dads that our daughters need, and that’s why this podcast exists. The conversations that we have lead to deeper connections with our daughters, and it’s an opportunity for you to be able to roll up your sleeves, to be able to learn, to grow and to take some things out of every episode. My hope is that at the end of every episode, you’ve got something, whether it’s one thing, whether it’s 10 things that you have taken away from the episode, some tools for your toolbox that will allow for you to be able to be just that little bit better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]:
And every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have been doing this fatherhood thing in their own way, and they’re bringing some perspectives to you. Doesn’t mean that it’s going to work for you. It could. It might not, but you’re going to still learn something new. Today we got another great guest. Michael Mirza is with us today, and Michael is a father of two. He’s got both a son and a daughter. His daughter is 8, and we’re going to be talking about his relationship with his daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:36]:
And for full transparency, Michael was a guest on my past podcast called Dads with Daughters about four years ago. And so this is a great opportunity for me to be able to reconnect with him and an opportunity for you to get to meet him and to learn from him today. Michael, thanks so much for being here today.

Michael Mirza [00:02:54]:
Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be back, Christopher, and I am really grateful for the ways you have kept this conversation going and the depth and wisdom you bring to it and the intentionality. So thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:05]:
You know, I really appreciate you being back. And as we were talking before we started, things have changed a lot in four years, and not only in the sense of your daughter being where she’s at today, and you’re in a very different point in your own fatherhood and parenting. And I guess my first question for you is, as you look back at the eight years that you’ve had with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Michael Mirza [00:03:33]:
Mm, I love that. Well, first of all, I just thought, wow, eight years. And we chatted four years ago, so it has literally been double her lifetime since we last talked. Like, in the scheme of things, like, she is truly a completely different person, and I am in a lot of ways as well. The first thing that came to mind when you asked that was actually a fairly recent moment. So I don’t know if it’s the most meaningful of all, but it’s one that is. Just came to mind right away with all the craziness of life. We were recently at a park, and it was a pretty quiet day at the park, and there was, like, almost nobody else around, so I was there with my two kids.

Michael Mirza [00:04:13]:
We played on the playground a little bit. Then we were just kind of strolling around the park. At one point, we ended over by the baseball diamond, and my son was drawing with a stick in the dirt, and my daughter and I were just sitting on the bleachers watching him. And there was sort of a natural pause, and she. In. In an unprovoked way, she was just noticing, like, the birds and the clouds gently passing over just in a totally, like, unsolicited way was just like, it’s really nice to just pause and be quiet sometimes and just listen. And that meant a lot to me because I think it’s a good reminder to me and a good word for me and we’ve been talking a lot lately about the importance of nature, as in taking care of nature and learning from nature and also trying to get out and spend time in nature where in the area we live in. We’re grateful to have a lot of forest preserves close by where we live.

Michael Mirza [00:05:03]:
But to have her sort of reflect that without me sort of prompting like, hey, isn’t this nice? And she was just like, wow, sitting and listening to the birds. Pretty cool. That was a really special moment for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]:
I love that. And you’re right, I mean, sometimes those quiet moments, those opportunities to be able to just be, are so important because so many times in our lives, life gets in the way. The busyness of life gets in the way. And you don’t sit down and just reflect or you don’t sit down and just allow for the world around you to be able to just be.

Michael Mirza [00:05:42]:
It’s something that for me, I have adhd. And that’s another thing my daughter and I now share is we both share diagnosed adhd. But so for me, like just with the noise and you know, so much of my life is on screens, those moments of pause, I haven’t fully dabbled into meditation, probably as much as I should, and yet sometimes it’s my daughter is the one reminding me was a real gift.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]:
So talk to me about that diagnosis that you both share and what that has meant not only for her, but for you. And sharing that, but also what have you been able to do to be able to help her, to be able to better understand what she is going through and what you’ve gone through.

Michael Mirza [00:06:21]:
And it’s actually pretty recent for her. So I was diagnosed with ADHD in middle school. I tried a bunch of different medications and didn’t like the side effects for various reasons. And so my parents and I decided together. I honestly don’t fully remember the details of the conversation, but actually decided to forego medication. And I made it through my life okay. My academic career and in my professional career. However, I look back at my career and I can think, I can see a lot of places where I probably struggled a lot more than I needed to.

Michael Mirza [00:06:53]:
So actually just for myself, just about two years ago, I went and got formally assessed again as an adult and got my own ADHD diagnosis again. This is. That means I had gone roughly 30 years ish, without medication and not on any sort of high horse, like good reason. I just like for whatever reason didn’t want to. And then I quickly saw the difference it made in my life. Meanwhile, with my Daughter. We were seeing some. A lot of the signs that there may have been adhd.

Michael Mirza [00:07:22]:
And it is a. You know, it has genetic components to it, and my mom has it as well. So she’s incredibly creative, brilliant, and also can struggle with regulating her emotions and slowing down to make decisions, but so creative and capable of leaning into, like, the hyper focus that is characteristic of adhd. So we just got her assessed and we finally got the results from the therapist who worked with her just a week ago. So this is super, super fresh. So the next step is actually to go meet with a psychiatrist and work with the psychiatrist and pediatrician to get medication. And so it’s all. We haven’t even gone that far.

Michael Mirza [00:08:01]:
But simply having the diagnosis has been so helpful. I can already see so much of myself in her and the strengths she has, the challenges she has. So much of it I can relate to on a very personal level. And now to have the diagnosis and the language about her experience has already created opportunities, even before we start her on medication, to start talking about her in a way that builds her up and, but also helps her understand. This is your unique body and the way you’ve been built. So the way we’ve been talking about it with her is you have this brain that has this superpower where you can make amazing things and you can really, really focus on the things that excite you. And kind of like we referenced, you remember in the movie Frozen, Elsa has these amazing ice powers, but when her emotions are dysregulated, her powers can do damage and her powers can get out of control and do things that she doesn’t actually want them to do. And so we referenced that and kind of explaining like, you have these amazing powers in your brain and sometimes you need a little bit of help to be able to know how to use your powers to do amazing things and make beautiful things.

Michael Mirza [00:09:05]:
And she really resonated with that and found it to be a very edifying way of talking. And she feels excited about it. And she’s been telling her friends and telling her teachers, like, I have adhd. It’s a superpower. And I think that’s the language that I’m trying to impart from her and learning from my own experiences of shame at times of feeling shame when I felt that I didn’t create work or perform in a way that I knew I was capable of. And it is a mental brain diagnosis. It is a medical thing in that sense. It just is a unique makeup of the body.

Michael Mirza [00:09:40]:
But to not treat it as so much as being. I’m hesitant to call it a disability, and I’m not as well versed as I should be in making sure that I’m avoiding ableist language. And so I’m cautious to say that I’m not wanting to use the term disability in any disparaging way. And yet, just the way we’re framing this diagnosis for my daughter, we’re really trying to build it as a superpower and not focus on the negative aspects.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:04]:
As now, you know, one of the things that I’d be interested in hearing a little bit about is your daughter is getting older. As I. As I said at the beginning, we talked about four years ago, and a lot changes in four years. How do you find yourself balancing guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into the person she’s becoming?

Michael Mirza [00:10:24]:
You know, honestly, I mean, that goes hand in hand with the diagnosis as well, is that there have been places where I believe my wife and I have asserted a lot of control more than we needed to. Being like, well, we should probably still keep brushing her teeth for her, even though she’s not, because she doesn’t always do well at the dentist. So if we brush her teeth for her, well, then therefore, then she’ll have less trouble at the dentist. And we’ve realized over the years of seeing that, like, you have to let go, because otherwise, if the goal is to raise a healthy, functioning adult, I have to trust her more. And what we have found is that when we release control and trust her more, she will rise to the occasion. And it is scary and vulnerable to release control. But, for example, taking a bath, taking a shower. It used to be like we’re kind of hovering and giving instructions on next step by step, and trying to guide her through it.

Michael Mirza [00:11:18]:
Well, she’s heard the instructions enough times that now we give the instructions and we leave the room and we let her do her thing. And then we’ll check in. We’ll open the door, check in. Hey, did you do this step? Did you do the next step? Great. You did it. Awesome. Here’s the next step, and then we just leave. And the more we’ve been doing that, where we just give the instructions and leave, sometimes we still have to do reminders, of course, but she has been really rising to the occasion and demonstrating without even saying it, I can handle this.

Michael Mirza [00:11:42]:
I can do this. And it’s honestly been more my work and my wife’s work for us to release control. And I think the other area with the independence that we’re just starting to get into is. I think a lot of folks that I talk to, my age and older, have a memory of childhood in which there was this freedom in roaming the neighborhood and, you know, the. The quintessential staying out till the lights till dark and then coming. And I think over time, there’s been a shift in that there’s a lot less independence giving to kids in the way that they play. And that’s another area where we’re trying to give more independence. So one of my daughter’s best friends lives right down the block, Just has to cross one not very busy street, and she can walk there.

Michael Mirza [00:12:25]:
So just in the last month, as it’s been getting warmer, we have been saying, like, we’ll kind of text with the parents just to make sure, but we’ve been saying, like, go ahead, walk down the street. Knock on the door. Can you play? And she was really nervous at first, but getting her to the point where she’s getting more comfortable walking out the house, down. Down the street by herself. And again, the parents are still doing a little bit of coordinating to know, like, this is going to relatively work, but we want to do more and more of that, too. And we see in our neighborhood, like, kids who are 10, 11, 12, riding their bikes by themselves or in little groups. And so we’re trying to get. Get her moving in that way as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]:
What are some intentional ways that you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during those challenging times?

Michael Mirza [00:13:11]:
We try very hard when there’s an argument or a disagreement about what needs to be done next to validate what she may be experiencing and to say, hey, I understand you want to do this. I understand that you’re really focused on this thing right now. We have to pivot and get ready for the next thing for this reason. And there are times in there where validating it isn’t enough. And there’s still frustration and emotions that will. That will come. I’ve had to be really intentional also about apologizing when I am feeling frustrated myself. And I add a lot of hurry sometimes, and sometimes that, I mean, she doesn’t respond well to being rushed and hurried.

Michael Mirza [00:13:51]:
And I have had to apologize a lot, not only sometimes for the ways I’m getting frustrated and my own emotions are coming up, but that I’ve also recognizing. Hmm. A lot of the reason we’re rushing is because I wasn’t managing my time well, and now I’m not. I’m kind of rushing at the last minute and imposing that rush and urgency onto you. And that’s why there’s a tantrum and a breakdown that’s happening when in reality, if I had managed my time better and started the get ready to leave process 20 minutes earlier, then we could be in a more relaxed and flexible space. So I’ve had to do a lot of recognizing and apologizing for my own ways in which I am adding to the stress of the environment that has taken an ongoing effort of humility that some. Sometimes I’m able to recognize in the moment, sometimes it takes a little while longer to recognize. But I think that that’s, I would say, as a baseline, I know I’m going to make mistakes, but it’s a hard and fast rule for me to always apologize.

Michael Mirza [00:14:50]:
Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone apologizes for their mistakes. And I think the apology, as almost a discipline has been important for us and building trust. And I think it has created the opportunity that even when we have a tantrum that ends with, you know, some frustration and big emotions, that we are always able to come back to an embrace and. And reconnection moment. And me being able to articulate I love you no matter what, there’s nothing that will ever cause me to stop loving you. And even when we have disagreements, even when we have fights, I will always love you no matter what. And I have to manage my emotions and not let my anger get in the way of.

Michael Mirza [00:15:27]:
Of my love for you as well. So I think that at a. Really, that that’s been one of the ways that we have done that. And then other than that, I think we connecting over nature and art and lately music as well have all been ways that we are able to strengthen our connection in those more peaceful times.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:42]:
How do you support your daughter as you identify those passions, those dreams that she has? What are you doing to support her in those?

Michael Mirza [00:15:51]:
So I’ve noticed that she’s really. She’s quite creative. She specifically has a real knack for organizing and arranging things. So one of her favorite ways to play is she has lots of little trinkets, and it’s a mix of, like, Barbie things and other things from all sorts of, like, mishmash of a bunch of different types of toys. She really likes to arrange them. And so first of all, just verbally affirming her and saying, like, oh, you have a real eye for design. That’s really cool. She doesn’t think of herself as a designer yet, but the way that she likes to arrange, it’s sort of an editorial form of creativity.

Michael Mirza [00:16:25]:
But that has also meant sometimes that sometimes the arrangements that she’s created in the little museum displays she’s building around the house. Some of that means allowing those things to stay where they are, perhaps longer than I or my wife might like them to stay put, because we want to honor the creativity that she and the hard work she put into these little displays that she has created. And sometimes I’m just like, oh, yeah, this is so amazing. We actually need to use the kitchen table to eat. However, this is so beautiful. Beautiful. And it’s not always at the kitchen table, but maybe it’s like, in the middle of the living room and other places. And my wife’s preference, and mine too, but I think my wife is particularly values having a serenity in the home, especially at the end of the night.

Michael Mirza [00:17:07]:
So kind of our nightly rhythm is as soon as bedtime goes, is done, we kind of, like, clean the house, do just a little tidying so that we feel like we can kind of rest and breathe the rest of the night. But sometimes that means honoring my daughter’s creativity by saying, we’re going to intentionally choose to leave this display that she has created, even if it might mean the house feels a little less tidy than we might like. And so we’ll let that go. And then after a couple days being like, all right, are you okay with taking this down? Usually she’s more okay with it at that point. And then we’ll often take a picture of what she has created before we clean it all up. That way, it’s like, okay, we’ve got a record of this cool display that you made. The real fun of it, at least for me, as a creative. And I think my daughter, she wouldn’t admit this, but I would.

Michael Mirza [00:17:51]:
I think it’s true for her, too. The joy is actually more in the creating than it is in the leaving it out once it’s created. The joy. She got her money’s worth from that experience, figuratively speaking. So trying to guide her and be. Yes, it’s sad to take down this thing that you worked hard on, but it actually just means you get to make a new arrangement next. So just like, little ways of trying to nuance and support her creativity in that way. I think she is a very talented designer and artist, and who knows what she’ll.

Michael Mirza [00:18:17]:
How she may choose to use that in her life and what the creative landscape will look like by time. She’s an adult, which I guess is only like 10 years away, but still, who knows? But we want to continue to affirm and nuance her creativity and her hard work, while also recognizing that the context of her creations may be fluid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:34]:
One of the things that I think that all of us try to do is we try to show our daughters that they can count on us, that we’re here for them, that we show up for them. What’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Michael Mirza [00:18:47]:
I’m thinking of relevant to some of when she has had really big emotions and whether it’s been that there’s a change of plans or asking her to stop something she’s working on so that we can move on to getting ready for the day or getting ready for bed or whatever it is. And in those moments when she has a kind of a meltdown of sorts or, and as she gets older, this gets less common. But I think it’s still something that plays into the ADHD thing. One of the ways that I think we try really hard to show up for her is this posture of always being willing to embrace and not hold bitterness towards. Even when sometimes like her dysregulation may cause her to say things we know she doesn’t mean or lash out. Trying really, really hard to not take that personally. And it’s amazing how the words of an 8 year old can still hurt. But trying really hard to demonstrate that we’re still here, that talking in that way is not kind and it’s not something we’re okay with.

Michael Mirza [00:19:45]:
But we’re still here and we will be here with you. We’re going to guide you and help you and understand that it’s not okay to talk to people that way. And we’re not going to leave you. We’re not going to punish you with isolation or shame in those moments. But I think that that’s part of the reason why we are always able to reconcile in the way that we are is because of this posture of showing that even when sometimes it’s like, I need you to take a. I need you to take a few minutes to just calm down in your room and then when you play with your fidgets, do a little drawing when you’re calm, I’m going to go take some time for me to be calm. Let’s come back together in a couple minutes and let’s talk about that. Even in those moments, making sure that she is understanding that I’m not like shutting the door and walking away and we’re done with this.

Michael Mirza [00:20:32]:
We’re moving on to making it clear like, I’m still here, but we both need a little space right now. Let’s take some space. Let’s come back and demonstrating that consistently that she is never going to be abandoned as part of her any sort of consequence for anything that might happen. Maybe that’s still a little too abstract, but that’s sort of her high level. But that’s where my mind went.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]:
Completely understand. And it’s definitely a journey. We talked about it being a journey, but it’s going to evolve, it’s going to change. And you have to change with it as your daughter changes as well, and as you get to better understand how you need to be there for and be able to allow for her, as we talked about earlier, become the person that she’s becoming. What’s a tradition that or a routine that you and your daughter do together, that you either create together or do together that strengthens the bond that you have together.

Michael Mirza [00:21:24]:
When we were talking about nature earlier, one of our ways that we like to do is we try to get out in the forest preserve once a month, which might not sound that hard, but you’d be surprised with the way schedules fill up just to like carve out a day. And we like to carry little buckets when we go into the woods and look for treasures. And I’ve been using some kind of found objects in nature for my own artwork as well. I’ve been exploring pattern design as a. As a medium lately. And so my daughter already liked this process of finding treasures, which may be anything from a pine cone to a mushroom to, you name it, just found objects in nature. We try to. Our rule is that you’ve got to either find it on the ground or got to be able to pluck it in a way that’s not going to damage the rest of the plants or the organism, whatever it is.

Michael Mirza [00:22:12]:
But as I have been exploring my art medium and using found objects in that the focus of our treasure hunting has changed a little bit, in which now she is ecstatic about the idea of finding treasures that I can use in my art. And it’s fun because she has also been like, taking these things beyond just the fun of finding and starting to do some kind of creativity of her own with nature. So she’s been doing like little sketches of mushrooms and pinecones that she’ll find. And then she likes to kind of put like little faces and turn them into little characters. That’s been a really kind of a fun thing we’ve been doing for a long time of trying to being intentional about going outside and going in the woods and treasure hunting. And it’s fun that now it sort of has this added layer of making art and sort of practicality to it in a way that is really, really fun. So I think that that’s something that I would, I hope, you know, as we get older that our exploration of nature and treasure hunting evolves and we’re able to do more in depth hiking. And I, I am hopeful about the idea of growing older and that even as my daughter is living on her own someday, that getting back together to go into nature together is something I hope we will continue to do for as long as we can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:25]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions that delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Michael Mirza [00:23:33]:
Let’s do it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:33]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Michael Mirza [00:23:38]:
Mirroring.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:39]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Michael Mirza [00:23:43]:
Go to therapy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:44]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Michael Mirza [00:23:47]:
In addition to what? Everything else that I would say is dancing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Michael Mirza [00:23:55]:
Slow down and appreciate all the goodness around you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Michael Mirza [00:24:01]:
It’s good to do less.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:02]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Michael Mirza [00:24:10]:
There is nothing that you could do with your daughter that compromises your masculinity in any way. And you will have a more fulfilled and enriched relationship with your daughter by entering fully into her world and not caring what anyone else thinks about whether or not what you’re doing is fatherly in any sort of way. So do her hair, paint her nails, paint your nails. Meet her there. And you are actually more fulfilled as a father and as a man when you meet her fully there and aren’t concerned about how that might come off, about how you are perceived.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:41]:
Well, Michael, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing the journey that you’re on with your daughter and it’s going to continue, it’s going to evolve, it’s going to change. But I truly appreciate you being here for sharing and for coming back into this conversation. And I look forward to hearing more about how things evolve as time goes by. And I wish you all the best.

Michael Mirza [00:25:04]:
Thank you so much, Dr. Lewis. It’s been a delight.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoy enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:25:36]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to now Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Building Stronger Father-Daughter Bonds: Insights from John Francis

May 11, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

This week on the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with John Francis, founder of Fathers Eve and proud dad of two daughters, for a heartfelt conversation on what it truly takes to connect with our daughters and nurture their growth into confident, independent women. Whether you’re a first-time dad or a seasoned parent looking for fresh inspiration, this episode is packed with wisdom, real-life stories, and actionable advice that will resonate long after you listen.

One of the central themes of this episode is vulnerability. John Francis recounts a powerful moment when he allowed his daughters to see him grieve and express emotion about the loss of his own father—a memory that not only brought the family closer but gave his daughters permission to be honest about their feelings as well. As Dr. Christopher Lewis highlights, modeling vulnerability to our daughters breaks down barriers, opens up deeper connections, and provides a living example that it’s okay to be real and open as men.

The show also explores the importance of intentional parenting. John Francis emphasizes being truly present, stepping away from the “helicopter” parenting style, and letting kids learn through natural consequences. By designing his work and life to allow for more time with his children, he’s witnessed the value of being available and engaged throughout their childhood—something he encourages all dads to strive for.

Perhaps most touching are the actionable ideas shared: from creating regular one-on-one time with each daughter, to writing handwritten letters at major milestones, John Francis offers practical ways to strengthen bonds during both the joyful and challenging times. He’s candid about his own parenting mistakes, revealing how seeking family therapy and learning patience have helped him foster a healthier, happier home environment.

Finally, don’t miss the inspiring story behind Fathers Eve—a growing movement that gives dads a special night to connect, share, and celebrate each other just before Father’s Day. John Francis invites all fathers to get involved (“It’s fun, it’s free, it’s everywhere!”) and reminds us that being a great dad is about showing up, listening, and always striving to grow.

If you’re looking for encouragement or practical tips for your own fatherhood journey, tune in to this episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection”—and start building the relationship your daughter will cherish for years to come. Listen now!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on these relationships, relationships that you want to build with your daughter. And it is a journey because each one of us is on a journey to be able to become the best dad that we want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]:
But on top of that, we have to put in the time, the effort to be able to build those solid relationships, because the relationship between a father and a daughter is a really important one, and you and I both know that. But we have to be present, we have to be in it to win it, and we have to be willing to learn and to grow to be able to become the dads that we want to be. And that’s why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences to be able to have them share some of their own journey in being a dad to a daughter. And today we got another great guest. John Francis is with us, and John is the founder of Father’s Eve, or we’re going to be talking about Father’s Eve, because Father’s Eve is coming up here in not too long. And. But even more important, he is a father of two daughters, so we’re going to be talking about his own relationship and experiences with his daughters, as well as what he’s done with Father’s Eve, and I’m really excited to have him here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]:
Thanks so much for being here, John.

John Francis [00:02:06]:
Thank you. I appreciate it, Christopher. I’m glad to be here and be on your podcast. I love it. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]:
Well, I’m really excited to be able to have you here today, and I appreciate you being here. To be honest, John has been on podcasts with me for many years. We. I’ve had him on a couple of other podcasts along the way, so I always love being able to reconnect with John. And this time we’re going to be talking about a few different things in regards to your relationship with your daughters. I guess the first. First question that I love to start these conversations with is, as you think about the relationship that you’ve had with your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with each of your daughters and what made it so special?

John Francis [00:02:47]:
Wow, that’s a really good question. Hard to think about just one or the most. I’ll think about something. I guess what’s coming to my mind is they’ve seen me be vulnerable in a personal way, and I just remember the look on their face. I was having a memory about my dad. I lost my dad when I was 26, and I lost my brother just a few years later when I was 29, before I ever got married and well, before I ever had kids. And we were at home one day and I don’t know what we were talking about. It might have been my dad’s birthday or a holiday or something.

John Francis [00:03:19]:
And I was telling stories about my dad and how much I missed him and the sadness and the grief. And I can feel it now just thinking about it. I teared up and I was. Let it out, you know, just let it. I didn’t stifle it. I just said, you know, I gotta let this out. And. And it was fine.

John Francis [00:03:35]:
It was natural and appropriate. And I think I’ve learned how to. That’s living experience, let that happen. And. And they weren’t little, but they were young. But they were old enough to see that, gee, that dad doesn’t do that very often. And we talked about it kind of in the moment and then a little bit after, and I felt good about it because I think they realized that, oh, wow, it’s okay, look, here’s our dad. And we have typical kind of household environment here.

John Francis [00:04:00]:
But anyway, it was a moment where they saw me as regular, real human who has emotion and can express them. And it’s not always just, rah, rah, let’s go crazy. Was here’s dad really dealing with grief over his father? And anyway, it was a meaningful moment. And I remember in the moment thinking, I’m gonna just do this and let it happen and talk about it because I want them to see it. So it was intentional, but I was intentionally natural. I don’t know if that makes any sense. I didn’t stifle it. I think a lot of guys, or a lot of maybe in the past I would have Said, well, you know what, we’re going to talk about something else or move on or I wouldn’t hold it.

John Francis [00:04:35]:
But I. Anyway, I feel like that was a meaningful moment and I. We all kind of grew together and an understanding that it’s okay to be real and be emotional and express that, especially when you’re together with your family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:47]:
It is really important because so many times men have a tendency to compartmentalize and we don’t always share things. And I’ve said over and over again on this podcast the importance of being vulnerable and showing our daughters that men can be vulnerable and pushing ourselves out of our comfort zones in that way. Because ultimately, as you found as well, you’re going to find that that vulnerability opens you up and your daughters up to more connection and that becomes even more important in the end.

John Francis [00:05:20]:
Yeah, I agree 100%. I can think of a few other moments that we’ve had that were meaningful, but maybe not in the same sense. But I’m a lucky guy that I’ve been able to. I designed my lifestyle, frankly, to be able to work from home when my kids were little and when they were old enough to start paying attention, I was really able to be full present as a dad, engaged at their schools and involved in their lives. Not helicopter snowplow parents, but fully available and to the point where it was like, well, that’s just normal. Doesn’t everyone have mom and dad who kind of do this? And then when they were old enough to realize that, boy, that’s not common. Not every mom and dad have this kind of availability, I’ll call it. So it was intentional for me and I’m just so grateful because we’ve got that kind of connection and relationship and I think it was good for all of us.

John Francis [00:06:09]:
And I’m just grateful to be able to make the choice and. And conscious enough to make the choice, you know, because a lot of guys just aren’t, aren’t, aren’t thinking about it that way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:22]:
You know, now every one of us as fathers want to be able to do what we can to be able to help our daughters to become who they’re becoming. How did you balance guiding your daughters while still giving them the independence to grow into the people that they inevitably becoming?

John Francis [00:06:43]:
Well, that’s another great question. I don’t know that a lot of it was really conscious, but I think that what’s coming through my mind is there were moments where I let them learn a lesson where I didn’t just solve the problem or I didn’t make Them see the problem. I let them just experience what I’ll call natural consequences to different situations, good and bad, not to shield them or protect them from reality. And I think, honestly, my girls have learned to handle themselves and handle situations. They’ve got tremendous confidence and. And they are interesting. You know, they know who they are and what they want, and they’re not afraid. And I think a lot of that confidence came from letting them just be who they are and solve their, whatever problems in life.

John Francis [00:07:26]:
I mean, not that I wasn’t. I was there, but it was more or less an approach of just letting them experience life on their own terms. And they’re very different. Of course. Every child is different. Even though they’re siblings and they grew up in the same era, in the same house and, you know, at the same time, but they’re both very different and different situations with each daughter. I can think of a few moments where it’s like they get it, you know, you can see kind of the connection made or the light bulb goes off. And then I might talk about it the next day or a couple days later and say, you know, what happened there? Here’s what I saw.

John Francis [00:07:57]:
And then let them recognize there was a lesson and they pick that up. One more opportunity to learn. We’re all learning, and I’m still learning, that’s for sure. But I think it was having the ability to just stay calm. That’s something I learned too. For me as a dad, early on, patience was not a strength, it was a weakness. And someone pointed it out, a friend of mine and my wife, frankly. And I’m like, oh, man, you’re right.

John Francis [00:08:20]:
I didn’t see it. But once I had the feedback, I recognized, wow, I need to develop more patience. This is nuts. Why would I react the way I, you know, and so that became a practice and I got much better at it. And. And I think that made a huge impact in the environment and just the stress level, because I didn’t want to be that. That angry or overreactive or snap temper kind of thing. That’s not who I am.

John Francis [00:08:42]:
It’s not who I want to be. And that’s not the dad I want. Because I believe daughters, they grow up, and if you’re dad, I mean, you become the example that they look for in their lives. And so I wanted to be the best version of myself to whatever degree I’m capable of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:58]:
I think that what you’re saying is we have to be intentional about the things that we do, and we need to be able to Think about that as we’re working with our daughters and, and some of it is intentional and it’s conscious and some of it’s intentional but unconscious as well. And I guess as you think about intentional things that you’ve done, what are some intentional ways you’ve worked? Strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during those challenging times as they were growing up. And you know, because it’s not always easy.

John Francis [00:09:26]:
No, nothing’s easy, man. I know that something someone suggested to me two things that come to my mind. One is create some one on one time with each child separately. And so I would take them maybe on an overnight, on a short trip somewhere, or even to our family shares a lake home, which is fabulous. We go and do things just together, just the two of us, either one or the other, but not all of us at the same time. And that one on one time was very valuable. And getting them away from home, away from the family, away from their friends and just where they kind of have to have a conversation because you’re together in the car. We didn’t go anywhere.

John Francis [00:10:03]:
I mean it wasn’t like a real big deal. But creating those one on one opportunities at different moments. And I’ve seen guys that do like an annual father daughter trip, which I think could be a really cool idea. I never got that far, but I think that’s kind of a neat routine to build if you can. But for me it was having those one on one intentional, short, I would say departure from home. We weren’t like an ordinary environment where you have all the usual distractions and I work from home. So that was primarily for me because if I’m home, that’s where I’m going to be. That’s one thing.

John Francis [00:10:35]:
The other thing someone recommended or I read somewhere, you know, I try to read and learn everywhere I go. And one of the other recommendations was write your daughter a letter at certain milestones in life and handwrite it, you know, not typed, but you might organize your thoughts and talk about what do you feel, how do you see them, what are you proud of, what do you hope for them, what are your dreams or whatever. I know it’s not a novel, it’s a few pages, but I’ve written them. My girls are older now, so the first milestone I figured that out was when they graduated high school because that’s clearly a big milestone. So I wrote each daughter a letter just from me to them saying, you know, as you’re graduating high school, I want to just share with you my thoughts about you and all the things you want to share. And so I put some thought into what to say and all the way back from the moment you were born, and some of the highlights or low lights or some of the lessons learned, and it’s not a recap of their whole life or anything, but it’s more about how I feel about them. And the idea is that there’s something you can give to them that they can hold on to. And everybody knows in the, you know, years from now, when you’re long gone, they might have that letter to go back and reflect and say, well, you know, I remember my dad this way because he was able to share with me these thoughts or these perspectives.

John Francis [00:11:46]:
So I’ve done that, and I intend to keep doing that at those milestone moments. And I just think I wish my dad wrote letters to all of us. I’m one of five kids, so he wrote letters to us before he died, but sadly, he knew he was dying. I mean, he had cancer for a long time. It was slow. So as he was fighting and fighting and fighting. And then finally, at the end, about the last three or four months, he started writing. And my mom, they were together, and she’s like, what are you writing? And he says, I’m writing letters.

John Francis [00:12:14]:
You’ll read them later. So he wrote a letter to the whole family, and then he wrote a letter to each of us. And that’s quite a gift, so I’m grateful for that. And then, like I said, reading, the suggestion was, hey, hey, dad. You know, your daughter, she’s only this age for a little while, and in the long life that she’s got, how do you want her to remember you? You can create some of these milestones that could be real meaningful. So, anyway, that’s something I’ve learned and I’ve tried to do, and it’s certainly simple and costs almost nothing, but it takes some time and effort, and that’s probably the hardest part, but it’s so worth it. And then they read it, and then we talk about it if they want, but they’ve got it. And so I feel like that’s.

John Francis [00:12:53]:
I can’t give them everything, but I can give them that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]:
Now, none of us as dads are perfect. We’re fallible. You know, we are humans, and we do make mistakes. And for you, as you’re thinking about your daughters and helping to raise your daughters, what’s a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it? About fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

John Francis [00:13:16]:
Which one? Yes. I gotta Think of one that’s maybe relevant. I’m thinking about each girl. They’re so different. So with my older daughter, probably a mistake that I made early on when she was probably early teens, preteen maybe, and things were going crazy. Her relationship with her mother, my lovely wife, they had some challenges, and they didn’t see things the same way in a lot of ways. And my attitude was, I’m going to defend my wife first. So that’s what I thought was the right thing to do.

John Francis [00:13:47]:
And so that’s what I did. And it created a bit of a gap, I would say, with my daughter, because she recognized that, oh, okay, you’re siding with mom every time. And so she responded her own way. And that, you know, I mean, that’s the dynamic. Later, years later, our family. I insisted that we go together as a family to family counseling, family therapist. I said, we’re happy, we’re not miserable, but I know we can be more happy. And when I was a kid, my family went through some family therapy.

John Francis [00:14:15]:
One of my sisters, I have three sisters. One of my sisters went through chemical dependency, rehab treatment and pushed. Our whole family went through therapy because of that, and which was fantastic. It was sad for a lot of reasons, but it was really helpful for a lot of reasons because that therapy cleared up a lot of things that we were all unconscious to. So I had an appreciation for a good therapist. Years later, we went through some family therapy. Again, nothing really dramatic, but useful stuff. And some of this came out, and I started seeing how that really wasn’t maybe the best option all the time.

John Francis [00:14:46]:
And so I learned a lesson from that. And we talked about it, and we talked through it and. And kind of resolved it. And it’s like, well, okay, I can see why you did what you did, and I can see what you’ve learned. And it was me, her learning as much as I was learning, and same as my wife was learning. We’re all in this room together, and so it’s fascinating, I think, to just experience that. And we never had a bad relationship, but the relationship became much more clear and better after that because we all understood things just more clearly. And I think that’s where a good therapist is really valuable.

John Francis [00:15:21]:
And I’m glad we did that. And I expect we’ll do it again if we feel the need. Right? Because why wouldn’t you, if you can live a happier, better, calm, more healthy environment and relationships that we all want that. So that’s one thing I learned. I’m thinking about my other daughter with her, there are several. I can think of plenty of times where she was really mad at me, things I said or did that were not helpful. I think probably there I learned patience and understanding where her behavior was frustrating to me, and I might say something that was trying to provoke a response that really wasn’t useful, wasn’t healthy, and really just made her more mad. And then probably in that same therapy, kind of talk about those things and realize that, okay, that’s not smart.

John Francis [00:16:03]:
That’s not what I was trying to do, and that’s not what I want to do going forward. So learning more patience and then being a little more tolerant, I guess, of letting her do what she needs to do, even if it’s not what I think she should do or what I want her to do. But it’s not risky or dangerous. So just support her and let her do her thing. So I think I’ve learned that. Again, my girls, they’re not. Well, they’re both adults, so they’re not young ladies, but they got plenty of life ahead of them. And God willing, so do I.

John Francis [00:16:31]:
I’m sure we’ll have more lessons along the way is what I’m trying to say.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:34]:
It definitely happens throughout I their life and our life. We’re going to have to kind of ebb and flow in that regard. Now, I mentioned that you are the founder of Father’s Eve, and Father’s Eve is coming up. And I guess, first and foremost, why don’t you tell me a little bit about Father’s Eve and why you chose to start this event for dads in conjunction with Father’s Day.

John Francis [00:16:57]:
Well, thank you. Father’s Eve, of course, is the day really, the night before Father’s Day, we’ve got Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve. And so I invented Father’s Eve Eve because I love Father’s Day. I love being a dad. It’s the most important thing I’ll ever do is raise some children. And so Father’s Day is for the dads and families to celebrate, but Father’s Eve is just for the dads. So we call it like a national Dad’s Night Out. And this year it’ll be June 20, 2026.

John Francis [00:17:25]:
Of course, it’s Saturday because Father’s Day Sunday. And honestly, it started as an accident of the calendar. When the Great Recession came through in 2009 and 10, we had an opportunity to move to a different house. So we did. And the house was nice, but the garage was terrible. So I had a new garage built at that House. And I wanted to show off my garage, basically to invite my buddies over and say, check out this garage, because it was pretty nice. And it turned out the only night available was that Saturday.

John Francis [00:17:56]:
And I didn’t have really a lot of free time. It must have been a busy summer. And so I said, well, we’ll just have a little get together in the garage and I’m going to call it Father’s Eve. Because that’s just kind of funny, right? It was sort of a joke. Well, a bunch of guys showed up and it turned out we had a great time, right? No children, no women, really nothing to it. Music was just a little too loud. It was perfect. I mean, it was just guys hanging out in a garage, kind of an inauguration or a christening of a new garage.

John Francis [00:18:24]:
And we had so much fun. We said, well, we got to do this again. And so we did it again and it had to be Father’s Eve now. We said, well, that’s. This worked out great, so let’s do it again. So we did it the second year, but doubled, right? More guys showed up and more friends of mine. And just different people were coming together back in the same garage. And this time we added food and some games and we were a little more prepared and organized.

John Francis [00:18:46]:
Well, the third year we did Father’s Eve, there were guys coming that I didn’t know, which I thought was great. This means my buddies are bringing their buddies, more friends are bringing more friends because they’re having so much fun. And it was still just all guys, very low key, no program, no speech, no nothing. Just show up and hang out and let’s get together. And celebrating fatherhood is kind of the tagline. So someone challenged me to say, what are you going to do with this Father’s Eve? Why don’t you do some good? So the third year, I guess the fourth year, we outgrew the garage. We moved it to a bar and we made it a fundraiser for two charities. We split the money as a fundraiser and we raised $10,000 and got some publicity, got some media, had some friends, some.

John Francis [00:19:26]:
Some of my good, smart friends who were able to help me with the food and events. And we ran an auction. We got some media attention. We put in a cornhole tournament to have some fun with it. And it turned into something a little more I ever expected. And so the next year, that was 2015, was sort of the first official organized. We had a logo, we sold T shirts. We were having some fun with it.

John Francis [00:19:49]:
The next year, I went to the DAD 2.0 conference, which was sort of a media influencer thing, which I had no clue what I was doing, but I thought, well, see what we can do. And I met the guys from City Dad’s group and I met the guys from the national At Home Dad Network network. And I’m like, where have you guys been my whole life I’ve been out here doing my thing all alone, on my own, figuring it out. And now I realize there’s groups all around the country. Well, I had no idea. So started the City Dads chapter here in Minnesota, the Twin Cities Dads group, as an affiliate or whatever their thing was. And great guys, great, lot of fun. And so it kind of took off from there.

John Francis [00:20:26]:
We license it, I trademarked it and we license it for free. So Father’s Eve is fun, it’s free and it’s, we say it’s everywhere. So we kept doing it. Cities and volunteers pop up all over the country and host Father’s Eve events at their, in their backyard and their, their local bar or restaurant or a church or school or a club or. We’ve done it all over the place and had quite a bit of fun with it. Some guys do fundraisers, guys have done golf tournaments. One guy did a poker tournament that seemed like a lot of fun. Some do fundraisers for local charities.

John Francis [00:20:57]:
We’re not a charity, so we don’t want the money. We want. If you’re going to do it, raise the money and give it to someone else, someone who can do some good. Local nonprofit profit is usually what we recommend. Or for the At Home Dad Network is a good group. We collaborated with, really anybody, anyone who we thought was in alignment of let’s help dads be better dads. I mean that’s really the common denominator. Trying to help each other figure this out.

John Francis [00:21:20]:
So Father’s Eve now, this year we’ll probably have it in 30 or 40 cities around the country. We do a virtual toast. We learned something from COVID when, when that came around and, and it pushed us online. So we do an online zoom. And the fun part, Chris, you know this Father’s Eve, we do a countdown toast at 8 o’ clock. So people know on New Year’s Eve you gotta wait till midnight to do the countdown. 10, 9, 8. The whole thing at midnight on Father’s Eve, we back that up to 8 o’.

John Francis [00:21:49]:
Clock. Because I want to go home by 9:30. Man, I don’t want to see midnight. It’s Father’s Day the next day. I want to be well rested. So we do a 8 o’ clock countdown toast in East Coast, Central time, Mountain time and Pacific time, the four continental US Time zones. We go online and we get guys zooming in from all over the country, up and down the different time zones. It’s really kind of fun.

John Francis [00:22:12]:
And they, they click, they connect. So it’s like, you might be like, where I am in Minnesota, we’re Central time. So we’ll see guys from Minnesota, Chicago, Dallas, Kansas City, you know, up and down our time zone. But we of course start early for the east coast guys. We want to see them and all way from New York to Carolinas and Florida and whatever. Anyway, we do it four times online, so guys can join us anywhere and zoom in. And there’s no fee, there’s no credit card number, there’s nothing. You just show up and if you want to say something, say something.

John Francis [00:22:42]:
If you don’t, you don’t. Nobody really minds it. The expectations are pretty low. It’s. It’s just show up and maybe you’ll learn something, maybe you share something. You have some games and activities and anyway, it’s loosely organized. I’ll say a bunch of volunteers having a good time. My strategy, there’s not a lot to it, but the goal is to have dads connect.

John Francis [00:23:01]:
And we say we connect, share and celebrate fatherhood. And I tell you what I’ve learned over the years is if I can help somebody, just be a little more intentional or a little more conscious of how important fatherhood is and being that dad, you know, being the father is biological. Being the dad is much more. So we focus on trying to do whatever we can to help each other be a better husband, be a better father, be a better partner. And we welcome every dad, all the dads, really anyone. We’re very inclusive and there’s really no agenda. We’re not selling anything, we’re not promoting anything. We’re not saving anyone.

John Francis [00:23:36]:
We’re not solving any problems. We’re just there to get together and try to help each other and support each other. And what I’m learning now is really what I would say, alleviating isolation. I think a lot of guys, especially older guys, forget how to make friends and they don’t get out in circulation. I’m a lucky guy. I’ve got friends. We go snowmobiling and fishing and work. And I get around the country and do my thing, but a lot of guys don’t.

John Francis [00:24:01]:
And so this is a real easy open door. Come on out and celebrate Father’s Eve. Whether it’s in real life at a local event nearby, or whether you join us online and maybe you make connections somewhere or learn something about one of these groups or organizations that I didn’t know about, but I sure wish I did when my kids were little. And there’s always something new and interesting. And so it’s just kind of that sort of a connection point, I guess, is really the goal. I’m trying to be that the, the common denominator for all the dads. You know, we can all celebrate Father’s Eve and really have no agenda. But anyway, thanks for letting me bring it up.

John Francis [00:24:36]:
Obviously I can talk about this for hours, but we’re glad to do it and it’s been a lot of fun and we’re still learning, we’re still growing, but it is, it’s been meaningful and I think it’s a lot more room to improve always.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:47]:
Now, if people are interested, they’re hearing this, they’re saying to themselves, hey, I’d like to have a get together in my area for, for dads like this.

John Francis [00:24:56]:
This.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:56]:
Talk to me about what they would need to do to be able to do that, to get signed up and to be able to be a part of the fun.

John Francis [00:25:02]:
Well, Father’s Eve is the website. There’s no apostrophe, right? Because it’s not possessive, it’s. It’s plural, right? It’s for everybody. So some grammar teacher told me that. Where’s the apostrophe? I’m like, well, I didn’t trademark it with an apostrophe. So it’s Father’s Eve.com and we’re on all the whatever socials. I don’t know how to do tick tock, so I don’t think we’re there. But anyway, not hard to find.

John Francis [00:25:24]:
And there’s five rules for Father’s Eve. This is super easy. Number one, keep it clean. This is not a bachelor party. This is not a frat party. This is not let’s go crazy, right? It’s have a good time. I would say it’s PG13, whatever, but keep it clean. That’s rule number one.

John Francis [00:25:39]:
Number two, it’s for the dads, and that means all the dad. It’s not really a family event, although you can do it that way if you want. We’re not rigid, really, but it’s inclusive. So dads, divorced dads, single dads, granddads, gay dads, kids, trans dads. We’ll welcome anybody, whoever. If you want to celebrate fathers, we want you to be with us. So number two is all the dads. Number three is you got to have something to do, some kind of an activity or engagement.

John Francis [00:26:06]:
A lot of guys just have a barbecue and sit around a table and just talk. That’s fine. We do a bags tournament with the cornhole because I can hold a beer in one hand and throw the bags with the other hand. So that’s pretty fun. Something to do. And so you gotta Anything, anything, Something interesting to do. That’s number three. Number four is work together.

John Francis [00:26:25]:
We do a Facebook page for the hosts. We call them event hosts. There is a private page. I want to talk to you and share with you what I’ve learned and what. We have some tools and some simple stuff for guys who want to organize a little more and promote themselves a little bit, but work together. We want to know what you’re doing, and we want to help you do it better and have better results. And then rule number five is don’t screw it up. Don’t be that guy that does something stupid and wrecks it for all of us.

John Francis [00:26:50]:
So none of this involves any. Any fee. It’s really all just common sense. And we’re trying to build a movement, we’re trying to build a group. We’ve got social media, we’ve got an email, we send a newsletter. It’s not complicated. The goal is to get this thing big enough that maybe someday we’ll get a sponsor. Someone wants to be the official fill in the blank of Father’s Eve.

John Francis [00:27:11]:
I could think of a lot of things. I’d like to be affiliated with a lot of organizations. And if we get big enough where it’s attractive and we have enough. Enough activity or engagement, then there’s some economic value that I think if we made any real money, we. All we would do is promote ourselves even more and have bigger events and even more fun and try to reach more people, which is really the goal. If we can reach more of the dads out there, and there’s new dads, there’s old dads, there’s about to be dads, There’s. We can learn from each other and share ideas. And that’s really the goal.

John Francis [00:27:43]:
So Father’s Eve is fun. It’s free. It’s everywhere. There. Hit the website, click the link. There’s an agreement there. There’s a trademark, a license agreement, but it’s free. There’s no fees, no nothing there.

John Francis [00:27:54]:
We. I guess we do sell a T shirt. If you want a T shirt or coffee mug, you can buy that. But we’re not big on the merch, but someone said, why wouldn’t you sell a coffee cup or whatever? So. But it’s pretty simple, Chris. Part of the fun is I get to talk to these guys. I want to know who you are and what you’re up to and what your plans are, and then I want to help you and see if I can make your event even more fun and more successful so I get to know these people. And over the years, I’ve made some great guys that are doing Father’s Eve, and some guys have been doing it year after year after year.

John Francis [00:28:22]:
I think Chicago, I think they’re on, like, I want to say, 10 plus years. I think they’ve been doing it. Some of the other cities around the country, it’s same guys, same groups, and they have quite large events. It’s fascinating to see what they’re doing. And that’s really what it’s all about, is just keep it simple and have some fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]:
Well, we always finish our interviews what I like to call our dad connections. Six. Six more questions. The devil. A little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready?

John Francis [00:28:47]:
I’ll try. I’ll do my best.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

John Francis [00:28:53]:
Loving.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:53]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

John Francis [00:28:57]:
Parent the child you have, not the child you wish you had.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:02]:
What’s one activity that you and each of your daughters love doing together?

John Francis [00:29:06]:
We love being on the water, on the lake, at the cabin.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:09]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

John Francis [00:29:15]:
Be very careful of who you choose as a life partner because it’s 80% of your happiness or misery in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:24]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

John Francis [00:29:28]:
Life is so much more interesting as a parent. It’s a whole new dimension of possibilities and growth and meaningful life. I love it. I can’t imagine not being a dad. Dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:40]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

John Francis [00:29:48]:
Learn how to be patient and really learn how to listen. Those things are easy to say, but they’re really hard to do consistently. But I’ve tried and I’ve gotten better, and there’s always room for more. But patience and what do they say? Active listening, really being present. There’s no other way. I think that’s the starter for any kind of meaningful relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]:
Well, John, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being on the show today. Thank you for sharing about your own journey with your daughters as well as all the amazing things that you’re doing with Father’s Eve. I wish you all the best as you get ready for the next Father’s Eve. And as always, I really appreciate your time and everything that you’ve shared today. I wish you the best.

John Francis [00:30:30]:
Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to be build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:31:04]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

The Power of Being Present: Fatherhood Lessons with Mitesh Khatri

April 27, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

What does it really mean to be a great dad to a daughter? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection digs deep into this all-important question. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis, joined by guest Mitesh Khatri—Melbourne father, writer, and corporate strategist—explores the daily challenges, triumphs, and small yet powerful moments that shape our relationships with our daughters.

A central theme of the conversation is the importance of being truly present. As Mitesh Khatri candidly shares, simply being in the room is not enough; it’s about showing up emotionally and giving your attention, especially during routines like bedtime or unstructured play. One meaningful moment he describes is when his young daughter told him to “stop rushing me.” This wake-up call led him to rethink how often stress and distraction rob us of precious connection—and how even “routine” moments can become the foundation of trust and closeness.

The episode also explores the challenge of balancing professional ambitions with family life. Mitesh Khatri discusses how corporate careers often offer clear metrics of success—promotions, projects, and accolades—whereas fatherhood can feel less measurable. The takeaway? We must create our own scorecards within our families: counting moments of connection, presence, and patience as real victories.

Perhaps most powerfully, the episode underscores the need for vulnerability. Mitesh Khatri opens up about his struggles with stress, his journey to calm his nervous system, and his realization that anger often masks deeper feelings like disappointment or sadness. He introduces practical strategies—like pausing before reacting and honest journaling—to help break generational cycles and model healthier emotional regulation for our daughters.

For dads who worry about not getting it right, Mitesh Khatri says it’s not about perfection, but about trying. He advocates for intentionality, ongoing learning, and talking openly with other dads. As host Dr. Christopher Lewis reminds listeners, “being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present.”

If you’re searching for practical insight and heartfelt stories on building meaningful father-daughter relationships, this is one episode you shouldn’t miss. Tune in to The Dad and Daughter Connection for real conversations that will leave you inspired to show up, connect, and be the dad she needs.

Listen now and start building your own toolkit for intentional, loving fatherhood.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to delve a little bit deeper and into the relationships that you want to build with your kids. And I love that you’re here. Every week you’re here, you’ve rolled up your sleeves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]:
You are doing what you can to be able to show up for your daughters in so many different ways. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists to help you to be that dad that you want to be. And I try to bring you different people, different people with different experiences every week to allow for you to be able to learn something new, to gain some tools for your toolbox that can help you to be able to be that dad. Today we’ve got another great guest. Mitesh Khatri is with us today. And Mitesh is a father from Melbourne, Australia. He’s got two kids himself and we’re going to focus on his daughter, but he also has a son and we’re going to learn a little bit more about him and I’m really excited to have him here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]:
Mitesh, thanks so much for being here today.

Mitesh Khatri [00:01:53]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And really appreciate all the work you do for fatherhood and dads and daughter in this connection. This podcast is fantastic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]:
Well, I really appreciate that you’re here today and we’re going to talk about a new book that you have out to help fathers in many different ways as well. But. But we always start our interviews talking a little bit about you as a dad and especially as a dad to a daughter. And I know you’ve got a six year old daughter and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper. And I guess as you’re thinking about your relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful mom that you’ve been able to share with your daughter, what made it so special?

Mitesh Khatri [00:02:28]:
Yeah, I think one of my most meaningful moments has definitely been the bedtime routine. I think it’s been really. Because it’s come from a moment where it wasn’t the best moment for me. So, you know, there was a time when I was completely stressed out. Two young kids, and my daughter was four. My son was five and a half. And I remember my son is quite direct. But my daughter, she is more subtle in her ways of expressing her emotions.

Mitesh Khatri [00:02:54]:
And she said to me one night, and as I was putting her to bed, four years old, looked up to me and said, you know, stop rushing me. Those three words, I just froze. And she wasn’t being difficult. I was trying to get through the routine. Please put on your pajamas, brush your teeth, go to the bathroom, read a book or two, or cut it short. I was stressed, I was depleted, and I didn’t want to be there in the room mentally, even though, you know, my beautiful daughter was just asking me to be there and to actually be present with her. And we talk about present all the time. I hear it on your podcast.

Mitesh Khatri [00:03:23]:
It’s all be present. It’s so difficult to do. You can’t think yourself to be present in the moment. You physically can sometimes not be able to be present, and your mind is rushing and your body is not allowing you to do that. So it was quite a low moment. But today, when I look at it, it’s one of the most beautiful times I have, is to put her to sleep every day, read her books, that routine, the cuddle she gives. And I look at her now, she’s six years old, just turned in April. We take time with that routine, and I really cherish that time.

Mitesh Khatri [00:03:51]:
Is she’s so sweet and she has the cutest smile and the cuddles and kisses you get at that time, you think, well, you know, I’m never going to get this back. And she’s only going to be this age, like this, this moment. So we have to make the most of it, because they do fade. I hear it from people with older children. You have clearly girls that have grown up. You have to appreciate that. And so I think my best moments, they’re around the bedtime routine because you get to talk about the day. You get to talk about what they really enjoyed, what they liked in the day, what they didn’t and might do differently.

Mitesh Khatri [00:04:21]:
And it’s really sort of deep, meaningful connections which you might not get it. Sort of school pickup. How was your day?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:26]:
So talk to me a little bit about that transition that you had to go through because just hearing those three words, you can’t switch on a dime. You definitely have to go through a process for yourself to, I’m going to say, reinvent yourself in many different ways to be able to change that paradigm for yourself. So talk to me a little bit about that and what you had to do to be able to make that shift. I’m guessing failing a few times along the way and then getting to the point where you are now.

Mitesh Khatri [00:04:55]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, what I found was I thought I could think myself to be present and calm. And actually I found at that point my, my body was tense. It was stressed out from work, stressed out from home work, life management, all things that new dads or sort of dads at least, I mean all dads, but especially with the young children, you have a lot of competing priorities. And I didn’t think to look there, but actually looked to my body and I was tense in the shoulders, my back was hurting, I felt I was short of breath. Deadlines and emails and what’s next for the kids in terms of what we need to take care of. And I had to go through a bit of journey to really understand how to relax my nervous system. Right.

Mitesh Khatri [00:05:38]:
Ultimately our. If we think back to sort of hunter gatherer times and we think about the threats we had, right? We always talk about the lion and we sort of have to run away from the lion, the threat, and then our sort of nervous system can calm down. In today’s day and age, we all know with technology and the pace of life, there’s almost this ambient stress and therefore our automatic nervous system actually never sort of calms down. So we need to be sort of this safe and secure place. Polyvagal theory sort of talks about this where you need to be safe and secure. The next stage is survival mode and then complete shutdown. And I think many of us, at least me at the time, I was at least in survival mode every day, if not shut down on every other day. And I had to get my body back and I had to sort of calm my body.

Mitesh Khatri [00:06:25]:
And I have a sort of framework in the book around how we can discharge that stress. And there’s techniques and things you can learn to do. And I sort of had to learn how to do that and how to bring my body back to its irregular state.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:38]:
And that’s never easy. And I guess one thing that comes to mind is you and I talked at the very beginning that you’re a busy guy, you have Your professional work, you’re balancing that. You’re balancing being a dad, you’re balancing other things in your life. So talk to me about balance and how you’ve been able to find that optimal balance for yourself to be able to be the professional you want to be, the person you want to be, the father you want to be as you are today.

Mitesh Khatri [00:07:04]:
Yeah, I think balance is a very interesting word. Right. I think you have to really dig deep. If I sort of bring a parallel to corporate life, and I’ve been in corporate Life for like 20 years, helping organizations with complex jobs, blue chip organizations. I’m a sort of marketing corporate strategist, working in research and consulting. And, you know, we’re helping brands launch new products and services and ensure they meet consumer needs and doing some complex work around that. And I was sort of succeeding in that sort of arena because I had the metrics to sort of measure and perhaps in the most important area of my life, my family and my children, I didn’t have the metrics, I didn’t have the measure, and I felt like I was failing. It always came sort of second.

Mitesh Khatri [00:07:44]:
And I think myself, and when I talk to other dads in the community and friends and colleagues, I find it’s an easier thing to measure. So men sort of go towards things we can measure and we get that affirmation we’re seeking from work. We get praised with it. And it’s this scoreboard, I think, that we can easily track and see. When I think fatherhood’s not so easy, it’s in feelings, it’s in moments, it’s in those relationships where you can feel them. But you sort of. No one sort of celebrates the dad that comes home at 5pm on time to put his kids to sleep. But you do get the accolades and success at work when you succeed in your career.

Mitesh Khatri [00:08:19]:
And I’m not saying that we should sort of give up and forego our careers. I think it’s. It’s finding ways to measure things that matter. Those moments at home. So it might be the time that you don’t actually have your phone on you and just. Just have unstructured play with your children. You’re just getting on the floor. You’re not in any structured piece of work or structured time is taking them to dance, taking to music, taking him to soccer practice.

Mitesh Khatri [00:08:42]:
You know, that’s very structured. And kids need. Kids need that structure. But I think almost equally important or more important, they need that unstructured time. So I think when you can have those moments, you can say I’ve had 1, 2, 3, 4 moments this week where I’ve had really had unstructured time and play with my daughter. Whether we’re doing teacups or playing with Barbie dolls or kicking the ball outside. Those are the measures of success that I just didn’t have. I had all the traditional stuff, the KPIs that you get in your corporate life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:10]:
And there’s always this push and pull when it comes to raising daughters. And as you are trying to raise your daughters, you’re balancing, trying to guide your daughter while also giving her the independence to become the person that she’s becoming. And I know she’s still young, but I guess as she has been growing up. How do you balance that? How do you balance guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence?

Mitesh Khatri [00:09:32]:
Yeah, I think it’s a really interesting one. I think kids in general, but daughters especially you are the model they’re looking to when it comes to men right from a very young age age. So there’s, there’s that scanning they do of the environment to see how do you react to situations, how do you carry yourself when things get tough, how do you treat your partner, her mum, you know, how are you treating different women, how do you sort of interact, how do you talk to friends that are female, how do you just treat people in general? So I think they’re modeling and learning of what a man should be. So I think you want to sort of help them with that. And in terms of independence, I think it really comes down to having honest, open conversations as much as you can for that age where you can really help them distinguish between right and wrong. What is the right kind thing to do and what is not so kind, what are the sort of right behaviors to be following? I guess. And one of the things I’m always mindful of is no one’s a perfect father, but not moving straight from a stimulus like some sort of stressor, straight to anger. And I think we as men tend to do that, perhaps more when especially I was doing that quite a bit where I’d find myself, kids are running late to school, we need to go.

Mitesh Khatri [00:10:41]:
And I actually get really angry. It’d come out in the force in my voice. And then you sort of how it is, you tell your kids not to shout at the other one and that’s what you’re doing and that’s the behavior and modeling. So I think modeling the right behavior is pretty critical. And that sort of journey of really understanding myself, modeling the right behaviors was pretty critical for Me for the last sort of two years. And, you know, recognizing that actually underneath that anger, it’s actually not anger that we’re feeling often. Maybe we’re hurt because actually we really wanted to spend that hour playing with our daughters before they go to school. Maybe we’re sad because.

Mitesh Khatri [00:11:14]:
Or disappointed because we wanted the morning to go a particular way and on time and not be late for something else. And we sort of go straight. We almost skip that emotion in between. Sadness, disappointment, hurt. Because I think we just weren’t taught that. And therefore our daughters are learning that. They’re modeling that as well. You know, when I get angry, I’ll just.

Mitesh Khatri [00:11:33]:
I’ll just go straight to voice, you know, raise my voice and actually not express my emotions. So I’m trying to say I’m hurt. I’m sorry I didn’t do the right thing there. And I apologize. I felt really sad that we couldn’t be on time because of these reasons. So it’s trying to label the emotion and model that. But I think the independence thing is hard. I think you’re always scanning the environment to go, how much do I let her go? How much do I pull her back in? Whether it’s at parties, whether it’s devices, whether it’s certain foods she might be eating or whatever it is.

Mitesh Khatri [00:12:02]:
That’s a tricky one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:03]:
Completely understand. And we never have all the right answers. I mean, we definitely do our best and we try our best to be the best people we can be, but we’re flawed. Everybody is flawed in talking about that, I guess. What’s the mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it, about fostering a positive connection with your daughter?

Mitesh Khatri [00:12:22]:
I think I’ve made lots of mistakes. Probably like many dads, we all make lots of mistakes. I think one potential mistake I’ve made my daughter, and it probably comes from being that almost pushy parent when it comes to activities in sports. So sports or music or whatever it is really pushing them, maybe pushing them too much as well. We’re often projecting our own childhoods onto our kids. And they can lose the fun, you know, in what they’re doing, whether it’s dance or they’re playing some sport or whatever it is, and I think you want them to do well. But I think it’s also recognizing that they’re just kids, you know, we’re not sort of in the professional leagues. So I think I’ve really learned from that.

Mitesh Khatri [00:13:02]:
To not be the parent on the sideline shouting. I think it’s encouraging your kids, but not in a way that’s perhaps disrupting their sort of natural way to enjoy what they’re doing, whether it’s. Yeah. Dance or sport or whatever it is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:16]:
Now, as I mentioned, you’ve got a new book that’s out there called the Fight or Father Using Calm to Stop Reacting and Start Connecting. As a author myself, I know that many times when you’ve got this idea in your head and you got this passion to be able to get these words out and trying to connect with your people that, that you go all in. But you definitely have to have a passion for it to get to that finish line. So give me the story of the book and tell. Talk to me about why. Why you decided to write it, why you decided to put the time, the effort and the passion into it to get it out into the world.

Mitesh Khatri [00:13:52]:
I never thought I’d be a writer myself, but I’ve always sort of been research and really, as I was saying to you earlier before we started, always very interested in why people do what they do and what drives our behavior, what motivates us. Right. So I mean, I’m the sort of tragic in the self help section looking at the next book and going, how can I learn from this? I wrote this book because I think modern fatherhood is really breaking men and the expectations have changed and you’re supposed to be a provider and present with your kids. You’re meant to be the breadwinner and also emotionally available. And no one really taught us. If we think about our father’s generation, they didn’t really teach us how to do that. Our fathers really had a role which was sacrifice, commit yourself and be the breadwinner and be respected at home and very traditional household. I guess I’m talking to.

Mitesh Khatri [00:14:40]:
And I think I see a lot of modern parents for really my sort of discoveries on this journey started about five years ago. Kids very young. I see a lot of dads just grinding through it, myself included, exhausted, distracted. We’re snapping at our kids. We sort of promise ourselves we’re going to do better tomorrow and. But deep down we know something’s wrong, something’s not working. We need better tools, we need better ways to parent and we know that it’s a learning process at all. So I wrote this in almost a way to sort of say we can choose to fight and react and be in that sort of survival mode or shutdown mode when stresses hit with our kids, or we can choose a almost new way to father modern fatherhood.

Mitesh Khatri [00:15:19]:
I think it takes the best of what our fathers taught us. And it builds on that. And I think it builds on, you know, a lot of what you talk about, Christopher, is, is showing vulnerability. We need to show vulnerability to our children. We need to show not just the masculine side, but actually it’s okay to get things wrong. And this is what you do to repair that. And I think, I’m sure there’s lots of books that sort of talk to various things around that out there. I didn’t see something targeted specifically at that aspect.

Mitesh Khatri [00:15:45]:
And therefore, yeah, really focused in my own journey of switching from a dad that was reacting all the time at his kids, didn’t have the patience. As I said, my body was chronically stressed at the time. I put on weight and wasn’t eating well. I was numbing pain through alcohol, etc. And it’s not enough to just think yourself to a better version of yourself. You need tools, you need techniques. So I wrote the book and have got some practical techniques on what dads can do. You know, simple things like just having clear boundaries between work and home.

Mitesh Khatri [00:16:18]:
It’s so difficult, particularly post Covid. Many of us are working home in hybrid sort of environments and it blurs. You have your kids next to you in the school holidays. We’ve got school holidays going on now. My son or daughter will work almost in the same room in a work mode. I might close the laptop, but still mentally be processing the emails that I haven’t sent, the tasks I haven’t done. So I think it’s having those practices to say, you know, simple things, five seconds, where you might go, I’m home now, I’ve closed the laptop, let me show up. Or you might go wash your face or you might go change your clothes.

Mitesh Khatri [00:16:48]:
It’s just physically doing something. You might do 20 star jumps. But you need that transition process and just one example from work to home. So that calm framework is really around that. So you clear your body of the stress. Firstly, you anchor yourself between work and home. So have a ritual around that. You lead with calm because kids follow your regulations.

Mitesh Khatri [00:17:09]:
You need to be calm and have techniques for that and model and repair is probably the most important part where when you get it wrong and you will like myself every day, there’ll be something I do wrong, I need to admit to it and I need to label what that emotion is, which is then going into my vulnerable side, you know, it’s going into really understanding what that emotion is, not just anger and then coming up with a repair, you know. So yeah, I just remember I Actually had an argument with my daughter. I was stressed this A couple of days ago. She wanted to play. She can we play. She likes doing tea parties and cafes in her room. And I didn’t have the patient. And I just said to her, I’m really tired.

Mitesh Khatri [00:17:47]:
I’m stressed. I’ve had a long day and a hard day. And I shouted at you, is it okay if we start again? And she just looked at me and she said, okay, dad. And I think previously I would have just shouted and said, I’m not doing this, and it’s time for bed. So I think. I think it’s having those skills. It’s. Firstly, I’ve been quite vulnerable in the book myself.

Mitesh Khatri [00:18:04]:
So, you know, I’ve had sort of beta readers say it’s been quite difficult to read at times because they’ve seen themselves in it as well. So I think it’ll. It’ll definitely make you turn the mirror on yourself and analyze your own life, your own behaviors, and perhaps you’ll pick a couple of techniques and tools that you can use to just be that modern father and not fight all the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]:
And one of the things you write about in the book is being there, but not there. And many dads believe simply being physically present is enough. What helped you recognize the difference between proximity and true presence? And how can dads begin to see that difference in their own lives?

Mitesh Khatri [00:18:42]:
I like the bedtime routine with my daughter. It was actually that really broke me when she said, stop rushing me. And you really, you know, reflect on those things and try to make a change. And you don’t always get it right. But my son said to me one day, he was on the, I think, kitchen table, dining table. I was scrolling on Instagram, you know, usual blur posts that we would normally go, just mindless, scrolling, doom scrolling. And Taj was nearby and he. I don’t know what he was doing exactly.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:08]:
And that was part of the problem. And without looking up, he said, you’re always on your phone, dad. Not angry. He wasn’t whining, just like matter of the fact. Like, he was describing the weather. And I looked at him and, you know, his face was soft. He was disappointed. He wasn’t trying to start a fight with me about it, that he was just telling me the facts for what he saw.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:26]:
And I said automatically, almost automatically, I’m not quite defensive. I just need to do this one thing. And clearly I was lying to him, right? I wasn’t being honest. I was lying to him. I wasn’t being honest to myself. I put the phone down in that moment and I felt my chest get tight and I had a little shake in my hands and I felt enormous guilt that he had just seen me more clearly than I had seen myself. And I think we’ve all been there and I think researchers, you know, we’ve heard this all the time, we hear about phones all the time. But technically interference.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:57]:
Dr. Brandon Michael actually coined the term where seemingly sort of normal amounts of phone use during parent child time. It’s actually linked to increased behavioral problems in children. So the screen time, not because of the screen time itself, but what it communicates like. You’re not important to me. Right. Right now, in this moment, this is most important to me. We’ve all heard that before.

Mitesh Khatri [00:20:18]:
So that’s what I mean by you’re there, but you’re not really there. You’re in the room physically, but in your mind you’re somewhere else. You’re in another place, you’re thinking about something else. You’re not actually aware of your surroundings. You’re not actually picking up the cues or the people in the room. So I think that in itself because it increases the behavioral problems and we see how much time we spend on our phones and screens. It’s something which I’ve been much more conscious with. Now the phone goes on the charger.

Mitesh Khatri [00:20:44]:
Leave it there at 6pm in the evening. Sometimes I’ll throw it upstairs in the bedroom in a drawer. Because when it’s there we’re just so automatic. We’re so addicted to these devices that are in our pockets that are so powerful. So I think that’s really what I mean. We’re not there. And that can be a physical device, but it can also be actually we haven’t decompressed from the day and we’ve got all the stress from work or so we’re thinking about something else. We’re actually not there with our family.

Mitesh Khatri [00:21:08]:
We’re just unavailable and we’re not in tuned with not engaging with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:12]:
Now one of the other things that I read in the book was you talk about how many fathers suddenly hear their own dad’s voice coming out of their mouths during those stressful moments that you kind of talked about. When that realization happens, what practical steps help a father pause long enough to break that generational pat?

Mitesh Khatri [00:21:32]:
Yeah, that is a real difficult one. I think. I think what I’ve done is pause for five seconds. So when you see your voice coming, and you might even hear, you might even see in your children yourself, then your father talking to you In a particular way, that is really difficult. And I think we have to appreciate everything they did for us in terms of sacrificing, building a life and opportunities for us, and appreciate all those things. But at the same time, they maybe didn’t know how to deal with that stress or anxiety, anger. And when I say anger, it could be hurt, it could be disappointment, it could be sadness around something. So I think, you know, pausing, reflecting.

Mitesh Khatri [00:22:10]:
It’s a lot of journaling. So the last five years, on and off, journaling, I haven’t been as regular. But journaling on those moments where you know that you’ve almost automatically reacted in a way, and you can hear your father’s voice, whether it’s the harshness, whether it’s the criticism, whether it was the absence of. Of a father. I think we tend to overcompensate from what we had or didn’t have. And I think it’s a lot of deep reflection that needs to be done. But I just encourage everyone to just pause, pause. You don’t have to respond straight away to your kids.

Mitesh Khatri [00:22:41]:
You can pause for a couple of seconds, reflect, and actually sit with those thoughts. I think you got to do quite a bit of deep work and journal and plenty of services out there where you can talk to psychiatrists and psychologists and so forth to really understand the relationships with our parents. I think I’d also encourage if. If you can and your father’s around, have a conversation with him, Talk to him about things that you really have a lot of gratitude for and the things you wish that he could have done better. I think those things, and it’s not sort of pointing the finger or blaming anyone, it’s just having those honest conversations. And I think you’d be surprised where that might take you as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:17]:
It definitely is a journey. And a lot of times we’re constantly trying to find new ways to be able to measure up as a dad. And we look around us and we think, oh, all these dads are doing better than we are. And there’s almost that. As you talk in the book about that scorecard that we have in our book, about how we are grading ourself, how we’re scoring ourselves, and you talk about rethinking that internal scorecard that we use to measure success. What are the most common invisible scorecards that you’re seeing that fathers are running, and how do they quietly pull dads away from connection with their kids? But also, how can we change the script on those scorecards and allow for us to be able to look at that in a different way.

Mitesh Khatri [00:24:03]:
Yeah, I think that there’s a powerful primary story here. We almost have this deep obligation we have to build, we have to secure, we have to work long hours. We have to sacrifice. Sacrifice is love. And love looks like a mortgage paid off, a fridge that’s full, a future that’s funded for the kids. And that is important, you know, and elements of that are really important. And it’s a powerful story, and it has deep roots in human history, and male identity has been shaped by that. And I sort of talked about this a little bit earlier, earlier in the sense that fathers of men that do that, you know, they keep reinforcing that scorecard that exists.

Mitesh Khatri [00:24:37]:
So, you know, status follows the achievement. Respect comes with that success. The man is getting the promotion or close the deal or starting a new business and is an entrepreneur. They get admired. But we’re not throwing the awards and accolades for the dad who’s performing really well at home with his kids and actually teaching them about vulnerability, teaching them about how to regulate themselves, teaching them about how to show kindness and how to introduce themselves and respect others and be part of the community and. And, you know, have strong values and those sort of things. So I think men chase the thing that’s being rewarded, and we pour ourselves into that, you know, into our careers and into our work, and then we don’t have much left for the family. So.

Mitesh Khatri [00:25:16]:
And I think what fathers can do is have that sort of scorecard for themselves. So I have read sort of James Clear Atomic Habits, and, you know, we’re all sort of creatures of habits. So in my diary that I physically write, I write time with my wife, specific things I want to do, time with my kids, specific activities, time for my exercise. And I tick those things off, right? So I’m not just my career ticks and successes, but actually, what are my goals for my relationship with my son, my relationship with my daughter, my wife? What are my goals? How am I working towards that and am I sharing those goals, what I’m trying to do? So I think almost like we have KPIs for work, if you have a team and you have some employees and you sort of evaluate them, you can’t evaluate them on something you haven’t actually given clear KPIs on. And I think it’s hard to evaluate yourself on your family life if you’re not clear on those KPIs as well, and your children as well. If you want them to respect other people and talk with kindness, then you need to Teach them that. So you need to sit down, maybe it’s 10 minutes, maybe it’s a couple of hours where you need to show them what kindness looks like. How do you actually talk to someone? How do you greet someone? You know, how do you leave a social situation in a respectful way? I think those things we don’t measure and therefore we just think they just happen and get done.

Mitesh Khatri [00:26:34]:
I think, you know, the adult, the age old sort of saying what gets measured gets done in corporate life also matters in our personal life. And so we need to create those measures at home. And I don’t really know what the perfect measures are. It might just be that I had a beautiful moment with my kid today, you know, have a box for that and it’s a tick. So there were three nice things that my child said to somebody else as a measure around that. I think we need to create our own measures of success and have some KPI guys similar to what we would do in our career, because that’s how you get to the next level. You sort of can’t do that in your relationships if you don’t know what those measures of success are. So I think we all need to sort of create those.

Mitesh Khatri [00:27:12]:
And they’re going to be different for different, you know, whether it’s a girl or a boy or different ages, you sort of need to come up with those and your kids can be part of it, your wife can be part of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:20]:
The one thing I really liked about your book, and I think we could spend the next few hours talking about different aspects of your book, but one of the things that I really liked was the fact that your book, as you said, wasn’t written from the perspective of someone that’s figured everything out. You talk about where you are now, what you’ve learned along the way, but at the same time that you’re still failing, that you’re still flawed, and that there’s still things to learn. So as you are continuing your journey, what are you still learning about fatherhood that is surprising you?

Mitesh Khatri [00:27:52]:
So there’s just everyday surprises, I guess, with kids. You know, they sort of surprise you in different ways. But I’m just trying to think of more sort of themes that surprise you. Me, I think their maturity surprises me. You sort of sometimes underestimate how much your kids are learning as they grow up and where they’re at. They’re 7 and 6 and my daughter’s 6 years old, but you know, she knows a lot about the world and she is very mature when she needs to be And I sort of sometimes don’t want that to go away. Like her being very young, that small little girl, that beautiful girl that I put to bed at bedtime, I don’t want her to grow up to too quick. So, I mean, coming back to your question, what, what am I still learning is I think our kids are becoming independent and learning more than sometimes we appreciate or sort of take notice of.

Mitesh Khatri [00:28:38]:
And I mean, that’s come back, comes back to your independence. You know how, you know, you want them to have that independence and learn and grow and not slow them down in those settings. But I think my natural instincts is maybe to slow them down at the age they’re at and make sure they don’t grow up too quickly. So I think that’s a tough sort of battle I’m sort of facing. That’s what sort of comes to mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:58]:
And I guess finally, as I think about your book and for you, as you think about the legacy that you’re leaving behind in the book, you ask fathers to consider what their children are going to remember about them. If your kids were adults today, in reflecting on your parenting journey, what do you hope that they would say, say most about you?

Mitesh Khatri [00:29:21]:
I hope my children at the start of my book, this book is for every that that’s trying and I hope they see that I really tried. I, I got it right a lot of the time and probably got it wrong a lot of the time as well. So I think if I can have them growing up seeing a man that really tried to improve themselves, really tried to improve himself around his relationship with them and worked hard at the that and didn’t take my situation and where I was, as you know, that’s how it is. And I improved on who I was and knowing that those I was never going to be perfect and that I tried, that I love them, that I wanted the best for them and wanted to support them in everything that they did. So particularly with Alia, if I think about her, she has a lot of strength and it’s through sensitivity. She feels our feelings much more than my son will. She’ll notice things in others. She’ll carry emotions that’s probably bigger than a small little body.

Mitesh Khatri [00:30:18]:
I want her to know that she really has a superpower there in terms of that emotional intelligence and she can sort of really sense the situation. I hope that I give them the foundations of what being a good person is, what a kind person is, that vulnerability is strength. Whether you’re, whether it’s my daughter or my son being vulnerable, being Self aware, being calm when things get tough, showing emotional strength. They’re going to be the backbone of everything that sort of helps you in your life, whether it’s career or family or social. I want them to get rid of emotional sort of just thinking about it, but I just want them to remember myself and my wife really loved and cared and, and did everything for them to ensure that they got the right values in life, that they got all the opportunities they wanted to have, and that we really tried, that we always loved them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:06]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:16]:
All right, let’s try it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:17]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:20]:
Beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:21]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:26]:
Work on you first. Start with yourself. Then you can serve the people you love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:31]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:35]:
There’s many, but. Bedtimes, tea parties, playing with her dolls. I’m definitely a dad that has not done that until my daughter came along. So really getting down on the floor and playing those games. Games. Originally I felt quite ridiculous doing it, but then I thought I found joy in it because I’ve just never done it before. Just freeing into my sports and, you know, all the manly activities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:55]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:00]:
You know, always, always speak your mind and stand up for yourself. You have a lot of potential.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:06]:
Now, you’ve mentioned a number of these, but what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:12]:
So much. Yeah. Um, that you really need a lot of patience. We hear it all the time. But I think more importantly, everything you do has to be quite intentional and intentional. And I’ve heard you talk about it. Chris. Christopher as well.

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:23]:
Intentionality is probably one of those cornerstones of everything you’re doing in fatherhood, especially with your daughters. You’ve got to be quite intentional, but not, obviously, taking away from unstructured play time. But by being intentional, you can be present, you can be there, not outside the room.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:39]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful, meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:46]:
Treat vulnerability as strength. And I think if you were to journal or you talk to some close mates and dads and actually really get into the deep and meaningful and get vulnerable. And in my book, I have A lot of stories from other dads I run with and friends and we start to realize that we’re living parallel lives and when we get vulnerable, something unlocks, we learn something. And I think men don’t talk enough. So I’m a big advocate of dads talking about talking. And podcasts like this bring different topics and things dads are going through to, to life because we tend to bottle everything up right. We’re not very good at that. So I just encourage everyone to talk to someone and around things you’re going through and it might surprise you that actually somebody else might be going through very something very similar and can you can relate and you can bond over that.

Mitesh Khatri [00:33:35]:
So make sure you join these sort of podcasts or some sort of dad group or have a set of friends you can can have those conversations with.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:45]:
Well, Mitesh, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for putting this book out into the world, for sharing your journey with us today. And it’s not over, but I know that it’ll keep continuing and you’ll keep learning. But I truly want to say thank you and I wish you all the best.

Mitesh Khatri [00:33:59]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. Really appreciate it. And yeah, the book comes out on 28th of July, so it’ll be available Amazon, all sort of good book stores.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]:
We’ll definitely put a link in the notes today and I congratulate you on getting this out into the world and look forward to others reading it and learning from what you’ve learned along the way.

Mitesh Khatri [00:34:17]:
Thank you so much, Christopho.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:18]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at the end dad and daughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:34:49]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the miracle we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to now Be the best dad you can be the best that you can be.

Why Admitting When You’re Wrong Strengthens Your Relationship

December 8, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Hey dads! Welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, your quick, practical guide to building a stronger bond with your daughter—one honest, intentional moment at a time. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we’re talking about a powerful but often uncomfortable truth: why admitting when you’re wrong actually strengthens your relationship with your daughter.

We’re dads. We want to protect, guide, and lead. And sometimes—whether out of pride, stress, or habit—we act like we always need to have it all together. But here’s the thing: your daughter doesn’t need you to be perfect. She needs you to be real.

So in the next five minutes, I’ll share why admitting your mistakes builds trust, how to do it without undermining your role as a parent, and what it teaches your daughter about confidence, humility, and respect.

Why Owning Your Mistakes Matters

When you admit you were wrong, you’re showing your daughter that:

It’s okay to be human.
You value honesty over ego.
Respect is a two-way street.

And most importantly, you’re teaching her that accountability is a strength—not a weakness.

Because one day, she’ll make a mistake. And what you’ve modeled will shape how she responds to it.

What Happens When We Pretend We’re Always Right?

It creates distance.
It teaches her that making a mistake means losing worth.
It can leave her feeling dismissed, unheard, or frustrated.

But when we say something as simple as, “I was wrong, and I’m sorry,” something amazing happens—walls come down, and trust goes up.

3 Practical Ways to Own Your Mistakes as a Dad

1. Call It Out Clearly

Don’t bury your apology in excuses. Keep it simple and direct.

“I was wrong to raise my voice earlier. That wasn’t fair to you.”
“I misunderstood what you were saying, and I jumped to conclusions. I’m sorry.”

The more direct and sincere you are, the more powerful your words become.

2. Share What You Learned from the Mistake

Your apology becomes even more valuable when it shows growth.

“I’ve been really stressed, but that’s no excuse for snapping. I need to manage that better.”
“Next time, I’ll make sure I listen before I react.”

You’re not just saying sorry—you’re showing her what it looks like to learn from failure.

3. Invite Openness in Return

By being vulnerable first, you create a space where your daughter feels safe doing the same.

You can say:

“Have you ever felt like that too?”
“What do you think I could’ve done better?”

It shifts the dynamic from “dad talking at daughter” to “dad growing with daughter.”

Quick Takeaways: Start Today!

Here’s your challenge:
The next time you realize you overreacted, misjudged, or made a mistake—say it. Clearly. Out loud. And mean it.

Own your part.
Keep it simple and sincere.]
Use it to model growth, not guilt.

Your daughter doesn’t need a perfect dad. She needs one who’s willing to grow, to own his missteps, and to treat her with the same respect he expects in return.

Because when you admit you’re wrong, you’re not losing authority—you’re gaining something far more powerful: trust.

That’s it for today’s Dad Connections in 5. If this spoke to you, share it with another dad who wants to lead with humility and strength. Until next time—keep showing up, keep growing, and keep leading with love.

Building Brotherhood: How WeBus Connects Dads for Support and Growth

October 27, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Fatherhood doesn’t come with a manual—but the journey is deeply rewarding, especially when you’re intentional about connecting with your daughters. In a recent episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Wes Piatt and Chris Roness—two dedicated dads and founders of WeBus International—to dig deep into the realities, challenges, and incredible rewards of raising daughters.

One of the main themes woven throughout this heartfelt episode is intentional presence. Both Wes and Chris reflect on their own meaningful moments with their daughters, highlighting how vital it is to be truly present. As Chris shares, “It’s those moments where they come to me because dad’s got the answer… it’s all about being present with my kids.” Wes echoes this commitment by intentionally setting aside daily time to let his daughters choose activities, stressing that, “Whatever they want to do, I’m going to be a part of it.”

The episode doesn’t shy away from the hard parts either. Both guests open up about mistakes and moments of failure, offering reassurance that vulnerability and honest communication are essential. Chris tells a story about miscommunicating with his daughter about their schedule and how owning the mistake, genuinely apologizing, and learning from it turned it into a powerful teaching moment. Wes reinforces that failure is not only inevitable but also an opportunity for growth, both as a father and for teaching his daughters resilience.

Another profound theme is connection among fathers. Wes shares his personal struggles during a challenging time and how reaching out to other dads led to the creation of WeBus—a supportive community where men can share experiences (not unsolicited advice) and lift each other up. Through this network, fathers form bonds, share practical solutions, and most importantly, realize they’re not alone on this path.

The episode wraps up with actionable wisdom: be present, cherish powerful moments, communicate openly, and seek connection—both with your children and other dads. As Wes and Chris emphasize, it’s about being the man and the example you want your daughters to look up to.

Whether you’re looking for inspiration, a reminder that imperfection is part of the journey, or simply some practical dad-to-dad guidance, this episode is packed with genuine stories and strategies. Tune in to the “Dad and Daughter Connection” for insights that will help you become the dad your daughter needs—and maybe find a brotherhood along the way.

Ready to listen? Find the episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com and take the next step on your fatherhood journey.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week. I love being able to reconnect with you, to talk with you, to be on this journey that we’re both on together in raising our daughters and building those strong connections that we want to have with our daughters. One step at a time. Because none of us are thrown into fatherhood with that manual, per se. We have to learn it along the way. And it is so important to have strong connections with our daughters, and especially our daughters, because of that bond that happens between a father and a daughter and all of the research that shows the power of the relationship between the father and the daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:36]:
So every week, I love being able to talk with you, to walk with you on this path that you’re on, but also introduce you to other dads that are doing their best to be the best dads they can be. And we got two great guests today. We’ve got Wes Pyatta and Chris Ronas are here. And we’re gonna be talking to them not only about being fathers of daughters. Cause Wes has two daughters himself and Chris has three daughters. And we’re also, though, going to talk about their new venture, their new business that they’ve been working on for a bit now that is called Webus International. And we’re gonna be talking about that as well. So we’ll learn a little bit more about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]:
So, Wes, Chris, thanks so much for joining us today.

Wes Piatt [00:02:23]:
Heck, yeah. Thanks for having us on.

Chris Roness [00:02:25]:
Yeah, man, thanks for having us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
This is the dad and Daughter Connection. And I think one of the things that I’d love to ask you first is as you think about the relationships with your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Wes Piatt [00:02:39]:
Man, I had some pretty amazing moments with both of My daughters, they were born early and both in the NICU for a few months. And I remember there was specifically one moment with my daughter Joey where we had a rough time in the parking lot right before we went in and just kind of soaking in the extreme nature of everything we were dealing with and our first child and all this stuff. And I’ve got my hands in the little incubator and I’m trying to change her diaper on this little tiny, tiny human. I mean, she was the size of my hand. And the nurse walks over and goes, oh, let me show you how to do that with one hand. In that moment, I was so grateful for all the time that we had in the nicu, all the time that we were going to get in the nicu, because I felt like I got like a. You said we don’t have a manual for being a. I felt like they gave me a manual on so many things.

Wes Piatt [00:03:26]:
I was in the NICU both with Joey and with June because June was also born early. And having that time going into the nicu, June and being actually excited about it, knowing she was going to be fine, and then knowing I was going to learn even more from these amazing nurses that were there for 20, 30, 40 years teaching me how to do all these little things that most dads don’t get. It was an amazing, not necessarily like moment in time, but I guess like per se, but, but amazing time within their lives where I learned like, man, bad things can really lead to some pretty awesome stuff.

Chris Roness [00:03:58]:
Wow, dude, that’s powerful, man. Dude, Chris, that’s hard. You want me to just pick one? I’ve been blessed to have millions of them. And I think if there’s a theme about any one of them, it started just like Wes was talking about. From the day they were born until even today, Even with my 12 year old who’s doing the pre teen thing, it’s those moments where they come to me because dad’s got the answer, you know, they’re coming to me as a sign of strength and all the things and. And to me it’s feedback. To me, the second that I got my first daughter, the doctor handed her to me. He goes, $150 a month.

Chris Roness [00:04:30]:
And I was like, what is this? My bill? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, $150 a month. That’s how much you need to put in the bank every month for this child. So that someday down the road, whether it’s education or a wedding or something meaningful to them, you’ve got that Money set aside to give them a good quality life. But it was the awe of having this kid in my hand and still realizing it’s so much more than that. It’s so much more than that. And, and for the kids, like this 12 year old now who doesn’t even know that I’ve been putting $150 a month towards her. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not about some sort of material thing. It’s those moments where, like we talked about that bond that we’ve had through all those little moments where they’ve come to dad because Dad’s the answer.

Chris Roness [00:05:12]:
Even at 12, it’s not exactly the same conversation. It’s not a hug, it’s not. Whatever. She loves Benson Boone now, man. Like, she just loves this dude. She loves to sing. She loves to sing his songs. And so at nighttime we connect around his videos.

Chris Roness [00:05:27]:
And that’s my moment to just give her space so that she can say whatever she wants to say. And every single time that I provide that opportunity, she capitalizes on it and she’ll say, hey, Dada, let’s talk about this or let’s talk about that. And she’ll just start going and it’s awesome. So to me, it’s those special moments where they just, they need me. And for me, that same moment was recognizing that I had to be the best human, best man I could be because I’ve got three daughters and at the time, no sons, and now I have a son. But regardless, my thought was I need to be the best example of a man I can be for them so that someday they’ll bring me home three awesome sons.

Wes Piatt [00:06:01]:
Word. That’s it right there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]:
So what I’m hearing both of you say, I mean outside of those first moments, is being intentional being intentional with your time, being intentional with the moments that you do have with your daughters. So talk to me about what are some intentional ways that now you’ve worked to or you’re working on strengthening that bond with your daughters. Even during challenging times, man, I make.

Wes Piatt [00:06:27]:
Sure that every day we do something intentional together. I literally just posted this on my Instagram this morning about how I make sure every single day my phone is away and we’re doing something that they want to do. What do you guys want to do? And Dad’s coming along for the ride. Let’s go do it. And it’s not something I had pre planned or something I want to do or are going to lead to even a goal at the end of it. It’s just Whatever they want to do, and I’m going to be a part of it.

Chris Roness [00:06:51]:
Yeah, that’s good, Chris. One thing I didn’t disclose that I should have is we actually had four daughters, but one of them, at 37 weeks, didn’t make it. And that was a really hard time as a parent and as a husband. But also, at the time, I was a senior leader in the Air Force running a unit, and I had a lot going on. But what that child taught me in that moment was the power of a moment. And I realized I was constantly like, in a minute, kid, I got to finish this thing first, or I got to finish that thing, or, I’ll be right there. Just give me one second. I got to finish up this thing.

Chris Roness [00:07:22]:
And it was always a thing that I always had to finish up because I was doing important work, right. As a dad, not realizing that the important work was right in front of me. And so now, as a result of that powerful lesson that I got from my daughter, Ava, was her name is. Her name was the power of a moment. So now, to me, being intentional is remembering that once this moment’s gone, it’s fleeting. Like I’m never going to get it back. So when my child comes to me with a picture that they’ve drawn, and I’m in the middle of 500 things that I feel are super important that have got to be done right now, I can catch myself and go, this is what’s important. Show me this picture.

Chris Roness [00:07:58]:
Let’s be intentional about this moment. Because once the moment’s gone, you can’t get it back. And I’ve been able to do that with everything. It totally has changed my perspective on everything, and I feel has made me a much better father because I’m much more present with my kids, with everything. I mean, now I’m involved in everything they do, and I don’t want to miss moment for that only reason. And life has actually been so much better and more forward. And guess what? All those things that I thought were important, they weren’t, and they still got done.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]:
They definitely do get done. Even though at times in our minds we’re like, oh, oh, no. You know, we gotta get it done. But I. I completely hear you there. And there’s been many moments in my own life that that’s definitely happened, and moments where, as you kind of said, you make the wrong decision and you look back later and you’re like, ah, dang. You know, I shouldn’t have done that. So I.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]:
I guess one question that I would have is none always right. And then we’re always going to make mistakes. We’re not infallible. So what’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communications with your daughters?

Chris Roness [00:08:59]:
That’s good. I got one just yesterday, a simple one. But we have a very busy schedule with all the kids activities. They’re all, of course, doing something different. And I communicated to one of my daughters that today was going to be a day that she was going to ride the bus to go home with her brother while I took another kid to an appointment. And yesterday she thought was the day, not today. And so as I was picking them all up yesterday, she went and got on the bus instead of getting in the vehicle. And I had to send one of her sisters to get her.

Chris Roness [00:09:31]:
And her sister was a little fiery.

Wes Piatt [00:09:32]:
She’s like, come on, you gotta go.

Chris Roness [00:09:33]:
Get off the bus. And she was. She’s a very. She has a very big heart and wears her heart on her sleeve. And she just got to the vehicle just completely upset. Dad, you told me today was the day I had the option to go home. And on that I was like, okay, guess what? I confused you. I miscommunicated.

Chris Roness [00:09:50]:
And I just took the time to explain to her how I made the mistake and that I was going to own it and that we were going to move forward though, you know, hey, so this is on me. I told you about something, but the something that I told you about doesn’t actually happen until tomorrow. And I wasn’t strong enough in my communication about what we were doing today. And so I gave her genuine apology by saying the three things that go into a genuine apology. Hey, what I did wrong, right? That I’m genuinely sorry about it, and what I’m going to do about it in the future to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Hey, I’m going to communicate better about what we’re doing today. Then I’ll go into what we’re doing tomorrow, but I’ll follow it back up with what we’re doing today just so we don’t make this mistake again. And the power of that conversation was she went from completely upset and hurt and emotionally distraught to just, okay, I’m good.

Wes Piatt [00:10:35]:
I can’t come up with a single one. But I think for me, the biggest takeaway is what I do after I mess up. It’s that I go back and I tell them I’m sorry. I explain what I did. I go through exactly what switch has talked About Chris just talked about that. It’s. I’m not perfect and it’s okay not to be perfect as long as you do these few things after you’re not perfect and you learn from it and you get better from it and you move on from it and we grow from it. It’s like, I want them when you talk about failure, they’re super into gymnastics.

Wes Piatt [00:11:07]:
That’s like their sport now. And. And we talk about failure constantly, how much we look forward to it and we can’t wait for it. And when it does, it’s opportunity to get better. And it’s like there is no such thing as bad failure. And even when dad messes up, like, look, I’ve been around this earth for almost 40 years now, like, I’m still screwing up the most basic things and that’s going to happen forever. And that’s totally okay. I think that that’s the most important thing.

Wes Piatt [00:11:29]:
And they know that failure is good and failure is okay as long as we learn from it and do it. What Chris was talking about in recovery, I guess you could say from the failure or whatever you want to call.

Chris Roness [00:11:37]:
It, we call it debrief in our family. Debrief what we learned.

Wes Piatt [00:11:41]:
Let’s go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]:
I mentioned that the two of you a organization called webus International. So talk to me about webus. What is it? And talk to me about those origin stories. What inspired you to start the organization and how did your role as dads influence the vision?

Wes Piatt [00:12:00]:
I’ve told this story now probably a dozen times and I’ve cried every single time. I’m going to do my best to hold it together because it is we bus is what has kept me alive. And there was a moment. I own a CrossFit gym, small business owner, my wife as a teacher and for context, I used to be a firefighter. So I was a full time firefighter before I opened up the CrossFit gym. And I was doing both for a little bit where I was traveling down, doing my shifts, coming back up, coaching all the classes, traveling down and doing the thing. And I had a call, I went on that made me decide like, oh, I’m actually going to follow this path instead of this one. And I really regretted that during COVID because my business was getting shut down, all my members were leaving and everything seemed like it was like, man, I just made so many bad choices up to this point.

Wes Piatt [00:12:49]:
Like, why? Also for context, me and my sister grew up with just a mom and she happened just so happened to be bipolar and have schizophrenic episodes. So we had quite the upbringing. And during COVID I was having a really hard time controlling my reactions, controlling just the simplest things would set me off. And I. And I was just so upset with all the choices I had made and where I put my family, kind of, in a sense. And I started to get nervous. And maybe, actually this was a bipolar beginning to show itself in me. And maybe I had what my mom had.

Wes Piatt [00:13:24]:
And at the time, we just had. We had one child, and we were about to have our other one. And I was thinking to myself, you know, if you off yourself, these kids won’t remember you, and your wife can remarry. Find somebody who’s not in the financial situation you’re in. Find somebody who doesn’t have these triggers that you do and doesn’t have all of this background. And you can actually, actually, really, maybe your job was really just to bring these kids here and to peace out. And I was really considering it. And I was considering it so much so that I actually created a list of things that I had to do before I did the thing, because me and Switch were in the military.

Wes Piatt [00:14:01]:
I was in the Air Force as well for four years. And I was along with Switch, but I had quite a few friends who had committed suicide after getting out of the military. And that’s what Switch does, is his other. This is where I usually start to get choked up a little bit with his other company that he has called. You Matter, and you Matter focuses on ending veteran suicide, which is obviously an epidemic that’s happening around the world, and something that we need to work on and we are working on. But I digress. I was mad at every single one of them that did that because they didn’t call me first and they didn’t just go, hey, I’m struggling. I just wanted to let you know maybe you could help.

Wes Piatt [00:14:36]:
And so one of the things on my list that I had to do is I had to reach out to people and let them know I’m not doing good. This is where I’m at, just letting you know. And I was too nervous to do that with the people that were closest to me because I didn’t want my life to feel different. I wanted to be able to go to my family and my staff and everybody else and for things to be like, hey, we’re doing our best. Like, keep it going. You know, like, we rock and roll. And not for them to be like, oh, poor you, and how can I help you? And all that. I didn’t want that.

Wes Piatt [00:15:03]:
So I reached out to a bunch of strangers on Instagram, a bunch of people that I kind of know, but don’t really know in the CrossFit space, and just told them, like, hey, I’m struggling. I don’t know if you’re feeling the same, too, owning a CrossFit gym or being a CrossFit coach or any of that kind of stuff. And I just got back nothing. But, yes, I am struggling. This is tough. I’ve actually thought about doing that as well. And, like, I’m, like, I had multiple people go, thank you for reaching out to me, because I’m actually thinking about doing that. And this is just serendipitous.

Wes Piatt [00:15:30]:
This is amazing. This is happening. And we just started meeting on this app called Marco Polo that my wife was using, actually, with her college roommate friends to stay in touch. And it’s a really cool app that you can send a FaceTime video to any, anybody, and they can respond with another FaceTime video whenever they have time. And there’s a bunch of other cool stuff you can do with it. But I was like, hey, would you guys want a battle buddy check? Let’s just check in on each other, like, once a week and just keep the momentum going. And that slowly turned into over a hundred dudes around the world that call themselves We Bus Dudes and talk vulnerably on this app called Marco Polo about their struggles. And.

Wes Piatt [00:16:05]:
And it’s become an amazing thing, because right when we started it, we had one rule, and that rule was that you could not give advice. And when we say advice, objectively, what we mean that is something that you actually haven’t experienced or been through yourself, but you feel you could maybe help somebody else out with. And this is what we call the bro advice. You call your buddy up. You’re struggling with this thing. They’ve never been through it. They have no idea what you’re going through, but they’re like, oh, bro, here’s what you’re going to do. My cousin went through this thing, and here’s the best way to fix it, and blah, blah, blah.

Wes Piatt [00:16:32]:
And you’re just like, that’s not what I want from you right now. What I want from you is just to listen and to hear me and to sympathize and empathize with me, and that’s all I really need. And so we made one rule. We said you can only share experiences. So you, come on, share your experience you’re going through. For example, I’m going nuts. I can’t get my Girls to get dressed and eat breakfast and out of the house in time and to school in time without it being just an absolute nightmare. Anybody else experiencing this as well, and you’ll have like 50 dudes that will come on there, all varying ages, all kids of all ages, all been through the gamut and all coming with experiences of how they solved it in completely different ways.

Wes Piatt [00:17:12]:
Ways. So now you have this experience where these people are getting to go, hey, yeah, here’s how I did it. Here’s how I did it. Here’s how I did it. And then this guy just gets to go like, oh, maybe I’ll use that. Maybe I’ll use that. Maybe I’ll use none of it. Maybe I’ll use some of it.

Wes Piatt [00:17:24]:
And the idea is that they’re going, checking in to see, like, hey, I remember going through that. Where are you at now? Because I remember where I was at. And they check in. And so we both started in my garage on the floor, literally thinking about killing myself to where it’s at now where I. We just did our last we bus camp in South Dakota and just looking around at all the guys there and all the things we were doing to Mount Rushmore, it was just. How do you go from being at that point to being at that point and within a relatively short amount of time? And the answer to that is with the brotherhood. We bus is just straight dudes that want to be better humans to make this world a better place. And the only way that they’re doing that is by just sharing their traumas and their experiences with each other and being vulnerable and being open.

Wes Piatt [00:18:10]:
And I’m very proud of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:12]:
Can definitely tell, I guess in thinking about that and thinking about what you went from, from where you were to where you are today, and you think about the business that you’ve created. I know that webus emphasizes collaboration, connection. And I guess as you think about that and what you’re learning from other dads in relation to your own fatherhood journey itself, how does that collaboration and connection that you’re do, that you’re building in the organization, align with the way that you’re either raising your daughters to interact with you or interact with others.

Wes Piatt [00:18:45]:
It goes back to what Chris said earlier. We’re trying to get dads to be the people they want their girls to marry.

Chris Roness [00:18:51]:
Yeah. We have a kind of a little mantra on the webus. We. We tell folks, get off the struggle bus and get on the we bus because we’re helping the world be a better place. One dad at A time and the power of the shared experience concept organically. Like, it’s not like we designed it to do what it’s doing beyond that, but the secondary and tertiary effects of what’s happened is you don’t see any really heavy discuss about beliefs regarding faith or politics or anything like that. But that’s not to say that those things don’t come up. They come up through a shared experience.

Chris Roness [00:19:22]:
Hey, I’m going through something. I’m struggling with this thing I just saw, or I’m struggling with this direction I want to go with my faith. Does anybody have an experience with this? And then those folks will either break off and have a separate conversation on what we call a solo polo, or we even have topic rooms now, where, for example, we’ve got one called the workshop. And in the workshop, this is where dads have unique skills of handyman skills, whatever those might be. You can go in and go, hey, guys, I’m working on this today. Let me show you how I’m doing it in case you ever come across this, and vice versa. Maybe somebody is a dad now that didn’t have a dad to show them how to fix a flat tire on a bicycle. Well, you could go to YouTube and look up that stuff.

Chris Roness [00:20:00]:
But the difference is on webus, you go to the workshop, you can go, hey, guys, I’m gonna fix this flat tire. And you’ve already got a group of guys that you’re connected to that will not only walk you through that, but they’ll walk you through how that connects to a life experience or a connection that you can have with your child by maybe walking your child through how you’re doing that at the exact same time, things like that. And it’s just really powerful because the other organic thing that we’ve discovered with this is that men are coming out of the woodwork to join us on we bus because of this shared experience. And one of the interesting things that happens right off the bat is a new dad. Well, he’s just going through it and he’ll listen to what the other dads are saying for a while first before he even says anything. And then that dude will come on and just let it all out. And you can watch them. You can watch them just as they’re letting it out.

Chris Roness [00:20:44]:
And that becomes the beginning of the first step to how they’re going to be a better dad. Because now they’re open to gathering all this shared experience from everybody else and learning in a whole nuanced way that is not deliberate. It’s not constructed, it’s not academic. It is just life as it’s happening in everybody’s lives as we learn from each other. It’s powerful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:05]:
You know, in thinking about those experiences where you’ve seen dads unburden themselves and be able to share the things that they’re going through, can you share a moment for each of you where your connection with another dad through webus had an impact on your own fatherhood journey?

Wes Piatt [00:21:23]:
Oh, my gosh, dude. So many. Every day there’s something in there that we connect with with somebody. Like just the other day, I was connecting with Nick on CrossFit stuff and he tried his first CrossFit class and he was so nervous, and I was giving him all the ins and outs on how to do it and where to go and who to talk to and where not to stand and where to stand. And it’s like a little like, insiders, insider. And that’s what, you know, Chris was talking about with the. These groups that we have in these, like, breakout rooms. So you have like the main we bus and then all these breakout rooms that people can find their little niche in.

Wes Piatt [00:21:53]:
And when they get in that niche, they really get to work through whatever that little thing is that they’re struggling with, with people that are more connected to that little thing too. Nick was really struggling just with wanting to improve his fitness a little bit more. And he just like, you know, I’m stuck at a wall. I don’t know where to go from here. And there’s like five dudes that came rushing in with, like, experience up the wazoo to be like, like, well, here’s like 15 different things that you can do and choose what you want. We’re here to support whatever way you need. That’s rock and roll.

Chris Roness [00:22:20]:
Yeah. I’m telling you, there’s like this deeper level. I can’t point to one exactly, like, one particular thing because there’s so many things that I’ve learned from all these guys across the gamut. I mean, when I started on Webus, I wasn’t doing CrossFit, although I was familiar with the sport because we would do it when I was deployed in the military and I just retired from the military, had landed myself in a small town and was trying to find, like, we got spoiled in the military. Here’s the gym, here’s the everything you need right there on the base. And now I’m in this small town trying to find those same resources, and I couldn’t find them anywhere. And I was able to go on here and talk to these guys that did CrossFit and go, hey, tell me some more. Now, I do it regularly, and I’ve learned that for me, that particular sport isn’t something I do for the fitness.

Chris Roness [00:22:59]:
To me, fitness is the byproduct. I go to the gym for the community. But in that vein, like, one of the things that happens through these dialogues, as you start to learn more about these guys at a deeper level. And so Wes, we’ve known each other what, three years maybe?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:12]:
Yeah, right.

Chris Roness [00:23:13]:
Well, check this out. I just learned. I was yesterday years old when I learned that Wes plays the drum. And it’s all because we started a recent topic group called the Bandwagon, where guys that play musical instruments or just want to talk about the songs that they enjoy can get in that chat room and play music together or talk about music or whatever. And Wes is like, yeah, here’s my trap set. I’m like, what, dude? You play the drums?

Wes Piatt [00:23:33]:
Like.

Chris Roness [00:23:33]:
Like, we’ve been very close. We’ve had very deep conversations, and I never knew this. Here’s another example. One of the guys on weboss is a good friend of mine that I went through basic training with over 20, like almost 30 years ago. And me and this guy have talked regularly for 30 years. And it was not until he joined Webus that I learned he was a Batman fanatic. Had no idea. 30 years I knew the guy, had no idea.

Chris Roness [00:23:55]:
He loved Batman. And that’s kind of what happens. You get into this level of understanding somebody just through shared experience on a different perspective or scale. And there’s all these resources right there for you. If you just. One of the things we do is what we call rfi. Request for information. Hey, guys, I’m getting ready to make a decision.

Chris Roness [00:24:11]:
Has anybody dealt with this? And it’s powerful.

Wes Piatt [00:24:13]:
Yeah, that’s how I got my financial planner, actually.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]:
As interacting with dads in this way and as you’re listening and you’re taking in all that they’re experiencing, I know that you’ve got dads and non dads that are in the community that. But in talking with the dads, what are some of the challenges, the unique challenges that you’re seeing that these dads are collectively having? And how is your organization working to either connect those dads together or help them to be able to work through those in different ways? What have you learned through this venture that you’ve been on?

Chris Roness [00:24:49]:
And I’ll offer one right now. The number one thing that we see consistent is that dads feel like, they’re doing it alone. They feel like they’re in it alone, that they’ve got to be the strong horse for the family. They’ve got to push through. They’ve got to do all the things, and they can’t just. Like what Wes was saying, like, they can’t let those people know that they’re going through a moment, or at least they think that, because they have to be the strong horse. And. And when they come into the we bus, we see that every single time.

Chris Roness [00:25:17]:
And I would offer that there’s a byproduct of using the app that we use with Marco Polo that everybody has benefited from because they mention it. And that is, as dads, we want to be problem solvers right off the bat. That’s our job. Hey, you got a problem? I heard my wife talk about this. I’m gonna go fix this. I heard my kid talk about this thing. I’m gonna go fix this thing. But especially as dads of daughters, you leave the video.

Chris Roness [00:25:38]:
Guess what? In order to listen to that video, you’ve got to literally sit there and watch it and listen. And the byproduct is we’ve all become much better listeners, and we’re all present as a result of that. And I think that’s one of the things that we all struggle with as dads is how not to just be problem solvers, but to be present and listening and to realize that we’re not in it alone, that there are other dads going through it too.

Wes Piatt [00:25:59]:
Do.

Chris Roness [00:25:59]:
And. And we can all connect around nothing but just that singular thing of fatherhood. And it’s just amazing.

Wes Piatt [00:26:05]:
Yeah. I mean, there’s so many things. And I think this is why we created. We call them dojos, and they’re these little breakout groups that we have. And we have dads that are going through divorces. We have dads that are thinking about getting a divorce and trying not to. We’ve got dads that are losing their job and trying to find a new job. We’ve got dads that are trying to get in shape.

Wes Piatt [00:26:23]:
We’ve got dads that have. Were in shape and now are trying to get back in shape. We’ve got dads that are trying to do everything. And so by creating these smaller group, one of the things that Chris really hammered on was Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and the amount of people you can actually have in your life and actually communicate well with and make sure you’re creating actual deep connections with. It’s got to be small. So we Keep those groups relatively small, eight to 10 people max. And we keep the people that are in there experts. Like, we gotta have somebody in that group that’s an expert in this thing in some way and can give you sound advice and help you out with where you really need it the most.

Chris Roness [00:26:56]:
And to piggyback on that a little bit, it’s not just about the dad that’s struggling. It’s about the dad that’s achieving high goals like Wes talked about. I mean, one of our dads started out as an alcoholic three years ago and weighed, like, almost 300 pounds. The dude has lost, like, 150 pounds, and now he’s an Ironman athlete.

Wes Piatt [00:27:11]:
We call him 75 heart because he’s gone through that so many times, and he’s become such a different human being. It’s insane. It’s literally. It’s like biggest loser transformation, but, like, in a healthy way now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:25]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I give you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as dads. You ready?

Wes Piatt [00:27:33]:
Yeah. Good.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Chris Roness [00:27:39]:
Love.

Wes Piatt [00:27:39]:
I was going to ask if I could use loving kindness as one word, but yes, love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Wes Piatt [00:27:48]:
That it goes really fast and so be present. That’s the only thing I found universally true.

Chris Roness [00:27:53]:
Yeah. It’s the same as, hey, 18 years. Goes really quick. Capitalize on the moment. The power of that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:00]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love to do together?

Wes Piatt [00:28:05]:
Oh, my gosh. Going to the beach or going skateboarding. Anything that has to do with activity, like just being. We got a big trampoline out back. It’s like 10 times a day. Can we go jump on the trampoline? You know, like, yeah, let’s go. But anything physical activity wise, they just want to go do it.

Chris Roness [00:28:18]:
Yeah, it’s the same with my daughters. They. They are all very active and. And very musically talented. One of the things that we all do together is we. We sing and play music together on our church youth group, and it’s a blast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]:
If you could give your daughters one lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Wes Piatt [00:28:34]:
You’re not perfect. Life’s not perfect, and that’s okay.

Chris Roness [00:28:37]:
I would say choose the person that you want to be with and the life you want to have very carefully. Those will be the two most important choices you ever make in your life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:46]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad.

Wes Piatt [00:28:51]:
Oh, man. I would say that failure is okay. I’ve learned honestly that because, like, I’ve said that my whole life. Yeah, failure is great. You learn from it. You grew from it. Let’s go. Hoorah.

Wes Piatt [00:29:00]:
You know, and then. But when you fail, you’re really upset about it. You don’t really learn from it. You don’t really take it. But I’ve really learned that. No, guess what, bro? You’re gonna fail hard no matter how much you prepare. And that’s good as long as, like what we talked about before, you come back and repair it and do what you need to do.

Chris Roness [00:29:16]:
The greatest growth and connection happens when you step out of your comfort zone. Man, changing diapers, the way I grew up was a mom’s job, but I got all into that. And the same thing with braiding hair and all the things is that big tough guy stuff. No, but man, the magic that happens with that. And that’s where the connections are at and that’s where the growth occurred.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Wes Piatt [00:29:46]:
I wouldn’t. I would just share experiences.

Chris Roness [00:29:48]:
The advice I’m going to give comes from a good friend of mine, Lindsay Ko, who lost his daughter to suicide. And I asked him what would he have done differently and he said, I would have been present more often. I would have just been present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]:
Well, Wes, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing what you are doing with your own daughters, but also what you’re doing with Webus. And if people want to find out more about Webus, where should they go?

Wes Piatt [00:30:11]:
Www.webusint.com and fill out the interest interest form. You’ll see it on the menu bar up top. And then our buddy Jeremy or Alan will reach out to you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:23]:
Well, again, I just want to say thank you. Thank you both for all that you’re doing to be able to connect dads with other dads, men with other men. It’s so important. It’s so important for men to have those connections in their life. And I really appreciate all the work that you’re doing with that and thank you for sharing your own journeys with your daughters. And I wish you all the best.

Wes Piatt [00:30:42]:
Same to you, Chris. Thanks for doing what you do in this space and keeping it going for so long. I really appreciate it.

Chris Roness [00:30:48]:
Absolutely, dude. Keep staying awesome. Chris, we really appreciate this, man. And we look forward to seeing all the other videos that are coming after this one and the ones before for sure. That’s a wrap for this episode of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:58]:
The dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:31:28]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents Bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes.

Musical Performer [00:31:58]:
By just like a dynamite blast Calling.

Musical Performer [00:32:03]:
Astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to.

Musical Performer [00:32:11]:
Them.

Musical Performer [00:32:15]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Performer [00:32:20]:
Be the best that you can be.