Dad of Divas

One Dad's Quest to Regain Control of his Kingdom

How to Let Go and Let Grow: Encouraging Independence in Daughters

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Are you a dad searching for practical ways to foster a stronger bond and raise your daughter to be capable, resilient, and self-assured? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Lenore Skenazy, journalist, author, and founder of the Free-Range Kids movement, for a timely, inspiring discussion on balancing love, trust, and independence in parenting.

Challenging the Culture of Fear

One of the episode’s powerful themes is how today’s parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing “what ifs” from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children’s experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

The Power of Trust and Letting Go

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential “trust loop,” where letting children try things on their own—whether it’s walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, “When adults step back, kids step up.” True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

Practical Steps for Parents

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they’re small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own “let grow” experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you’ll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

Join the Movement

This episode isn’t just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today’s anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]:
I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It’s not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that’s okay. That’s why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’m a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we’ve got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I’m really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you’ve ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she’s an author, she’s founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she’s often called America’s worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]:
Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we’ve become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad’s been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things he didn’t do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn’t expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn’t have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn’t have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]:
Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it’s not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn’t have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]:
And that didn’t bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]:
As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]:
Well, here’s the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he’s looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man’s, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don’t say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]:
And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It’s the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he’s very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he’ll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he’s just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he’s— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it’s an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]:
And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you’re putting somebody else’s emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]:
And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it’s the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what’s your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]:
Now, I know you said your dad’s been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]:
Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I’m pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and ’20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we’d get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]:
And God knows how many toothpicks he’d go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]:
Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I’m going to say the world, because you’ve been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let’s go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]:
Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he’d never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we’re always on the subways. We don’t have a car and he’s a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale’s fancy department store where we don’t shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]:
So he’d never been there before. And it’s built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today’s the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]:
He’d finally been let loose and he’d proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, ’cause it didn’t strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I’ll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That’s wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]:
But what if he wasn’t? What if he’d been thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that’s what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you’re not doing that too, if you’re not saying, well, I’d like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who’s, you know, 5’6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I’m not going to let her walk. And that’s a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I’ve been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you’d have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]:
How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]:
Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]:
Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]:
Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]:
Yeah, because it’s an extraordinarily rare crime. It’s not extraordinarily rare on TV. It’s pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn’t happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It’s generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you’re gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn’t let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]:
You know, there’s drunk drivers out there, there’s bad drivers out there, there’s elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn’t let them live in a house with stairs or there’s a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you’ll never see him again. And that’s, that’s as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it’s like, I can’t let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It’s like, I’m really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it’s like, well, you should be. It’s like, but I’m not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]:
Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I’m like, I’m just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don’t care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You know, from everything I’ve seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]:
But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]:
from everything I’ve read, it seems like it’s actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]:
Well, I think you’ve nailed it. The way I’ve started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I’d love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I’d never see him again and I would— couldn’t live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I’d be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won’t let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]:
It’s sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It’s not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend’s house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you’re sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there’s horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]:
First of all, you’re a parent, you’re going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you’re— you, you’ve given birth to a child and now you’re going to worry about them. There’s no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they’re thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they’re a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn’t remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you’re so proud, right? You’re so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you’re a parent. I’ll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]:
You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she’s out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]:
Yeah, it’s not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn’t there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I’ve raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we’re there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we’re there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]:
And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we’re always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that’s because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We’ve really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]:
But look, that’s part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don’t get that. It’s, it’s the fun of— well, it’s the fun of seeing your kid after you haven’t seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you’re so much taller and you’ve filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that’s why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]:
But it’s also about Stepping back, because it’s true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you’re with your kids, you see what they’re doing wrong. Oh, that’s sloppy. That’s a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn’t do it that way. Here, let me help. It’s just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]:
It’s not because you’re a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It’s because when you’re with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don’t want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids’ adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that’s free, free, free, free, um, that’s called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents’ permission. But without your parents. And then each month there’s a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there’s a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]:
You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it’s really just to create that action that I’m talking about, ’cause action breaks the cycle. You’re afraid this’ll be terrible. If you’re really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend’s kid go out together. They don’t have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]:
and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can’t see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we’re there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it’s so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It’s like, yeah, because they haven’t eaten. They haven’t eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]:
And we’ve taken that out and we’ve given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I’d say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there’s, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that’s also just for home use, quote unquote. It’s like a game. It’s like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there’s 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he’s right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]:
And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That’s a very constricted childhood and that’s a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that’s the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it’s, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody’s doing it. You don’t feel weird, you don’t feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn’t do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]:
But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you’re drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger’s and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that’s nice. Or the laundry. That’s good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]:
You know, it doesn’t take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I’ve seen is that it’s just this loosening. It’s just a little loosening. There’s a little bit of pride. There’s a little bit of movement. And then it’s like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What’s a post office, Mom? I’ll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]:
So I’d say any movement is better than no movement, and it’s often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]:
What’s some of your favorite stories of, we’ll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]:
This is the one that I’ve heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it’s worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, ’cause it’s almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She’s sort of the apotheosis of what’s happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who’s 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It’s, it’s like, because someone’s going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don’t know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let’s put it that way, or excessive, right? I won’t say crazy, I’ll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]:
But anyways, he comes home, he’s got the Let Grow experience, He’s a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He’s in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can’t I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she’s like, okay, because she’s been— she’s getting used to it. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s a word in psychology, I think it’s accommodating or whatever it is. She’s getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]:
And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there’s 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]:
And then they’re all over the neighborhood and they’re zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it’s like locusts. They’ll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she’s now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]:
live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she’s also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can’t believe it. I’m gonna call the school. You know, I’m gonna get out there. That’s so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]:
Don’t worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we’re handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can’t keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let’s call him Steve. You can’t keep being mean to Steve. You know, that’s just not fair, or, you know, we won’t ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it’s true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]:
I guess as I think about what you’re saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you’re saying. So you talk about what you’re doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]:
A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They’re not good helpers. They’re terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they’re part of. And so don’t thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]:
And then when they’re older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it’s really good advice. It’ll take longer, but in the end, you’ll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you’re doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children’s museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it’s because they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]:
And they told Group B, they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they’re struggling with a button or a toggle, that’s actually learning? They’re learning every time they try to do something, even if they’re not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]:
And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that’s just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]:
that’s very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can’t show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, ’90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]:
That’s all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they’re going to be online. I would be too. It’s the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]:
So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we’re going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]:
Friday afternoons, I’m gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I’m not gonna be watching them, but there’ll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they’ll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there’s, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]:
Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]:
Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I’ve been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor’s wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you’re trying something in the real world, at first you’re not good at it, whether it’s making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn’t fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I’ve done something like that before, or, I’ve never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you’re wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven’t done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]:
So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that’s all I’m saying. It’s just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]:
First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I’m just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it’s let’s go or let it grow or let’s get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it’s letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it’s actually quite hard, I don’t know. It’s let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]:
So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They’re gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she’d been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That’s a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I’m gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]:
Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]:
Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]:
As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]:
I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there’s a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you’ve heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can’t make them into something. We can’t make a physicist. We can’t make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can’t make a genius. You can’t make a jerk. There’s a lot that’s innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]:
And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can’t make an Einstein and you can’t really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]:
Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you’re doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I’ve fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we’ve done some good things too. But we’ve also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]:
You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that’s just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It’s like, that’s not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We’re all humans and we’re going to make mistakes. And I think that what you’re doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]:
Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Why Teaching Your Daughter Financial Literacy Starts Early

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Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, where in just five minutes, we give you simple, powerful ways to connect with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, capable young woman. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we’re talking about a life skill that often gets overlooked but has a lifelong impact: financial literacy.

Here’s the truth: money habits start young. And as a dad, you have a huge opportunity to shape how your daughter thinks about money—how she earns it, saves it, spends it, and shares it. And no, she doesn’t need to wait until high school economics or her first paycheck to start learning. She can start right now—and so can you.

Why Financial Literacy Matters (Especially for Girls)

We teach our daughters how to read, how to tie their shoes, how to be kind—but too often, we skip over how to handle money.

And yet, money touches nearly every part of adult life:

  • Making choices
  • Building independence
  • Planning for the future
  • Setting goals

Girls who learn early are more likely to feel confident, empowered, and in control of their futures.

And let’s be honest—you want her to know how to manage her money before someone else tries to manage it for her.

Three Simple Ways to Start Teaching Money Skills Early

1. Give Her Real-World Practice

Even young kids can understand the basics of spending, saving, and giving—if we give them opportunities to practice.

  • Use a jar system or a simple app: one jar for saving, one for spending, and one for giving.
  • When she earns or receives money, help her decide where each dollar goes.
  • Take her shopping and talk about prices, choices, and value.

Let her make small decisions now so she can make better big decisions later.

2. Talk About Money Out Loud

Most of us were raised to treat money like a private, sometimes awkward topic. But if we want our daughters to grow up confident, we need to normalize the conversation.

  • Say things like: “This is why we’re saving for vacation instead of eating out tonight.”
  • Talk through your budget: “We’re choosing this item because it fits our budget.”
  • Let her help plan: “We’ve got $20 for this birthday gift—how can we make it special?”

The more she hears you think out loud, the more she learns that money isn’t scary—it’s something she can handle.

3. Teach the Difference Between Needs and Wants

It sounds basic, but it’s huge. Especially in a world where ads, influencers, and social media blur the line.

  • At the store, ask: “Do we need this, or do we just want it?”
  • Involve her in choices: “We could buy this now, or save for something bigger later—what do you think?”
  • Celebrate when she makes thoughtful decisions, not just thrifty ones.

This builds decision-making, discipline, and delayed gratification—which are key financial life skills.

Quick Takeaway: Try This Today

Here’s your challenge:
Today, include your daughter in one small money decision.

  • Let her help compare prices at the store.
  • Ask how she’d split $10 between saving, spending, and giving.
  • Talk about a financial goal you’re working toward—and ask if she has one too.

Even a two-minute conversation can plant a seed. And over time, those seeds grow into financial confidence, independence, and strength.

That’s it for today’s Dad Connections in 5. If this helped you see money as more than math—if it reminded you that raising a strong daughter means teaching her how to manage her own future—send it to another dad who’s ready to do the same. Until next time—keep showing up, keep talking openly, and keep raising a girl who knows her worth and how to manage it.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Teaching your daughter to set boundaries and speak up for herself.

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Here’s the deal: The world won’t always respect your daughter’s space, time, or feelings. But if she learns from you that her voice matters—if she knows how to say no, ask for what she needs, and stand her ground—she’s going to be stronger in school, friendships, future relationships, and the workplace.

Let’s break down how to model, teach, and encourage this vital life skill in your everyday parenting.

Why This Matters

Boundaries are about self-respect, not selfishness. When your daughter can set healthy boundaries, she’s better able to:

  • Avoid peer pressure
  • Communicate her needs clearly
  • Build safe, respectful relationships
  • Stand up when something feels wrong

And here’s the key: The way you respond to her boundaries will shape how confidently she sets them elsewhere.

3 Practical Ways to Teach Boundary-Setting

1. Model It Yourself—Out Loud

Let your daughter see and hear you set boundaries in respectful, healthy ways.

  • “I need a little quiet time right now, and then I’d love to play.”
  • “I’m not okay with being spoken to like that. Let’s take a break and try again.”
  • “I have too much on my plate today, so I’ll have to say no to that request.”

When you name your own limits clearly and calmly, you show her that it’s okay to prioritize her own emotional and physical space—and that boundaries don’t require anger or guilt.

2. Celebrate Her Voice When She Uses It

When she speaks up—even in small ways—acknowledge it and reinforce it.

  • “I’m proud of you for telling your friend how you felt.”
  • “You did a great job saying no politely but firmly.”
  • “You asked for what you needed—that takes confidence.”

When she knows you won’t dismiss or shame her for expressing herself, she’ll be more likely to keep doing it.

And when she says “no” to you? Practice the pause. Stay calm. Show her that boundaries in a healthy relationship go both ways.

3. Role-Play Real-Life Scenarios

One of the best teaching tools? Practice. Take a few minutes and act out everyday situations together.

Try these:

  • A friend wants to copy her homework
  • Someone makes her uncomfortable at school
  • She’s asked to do something she doesn’t want to do
  • She needs to ask for space, help, or privacy

Let her practice saying:

  • “No, thank you.”
  • “That doesn’t feel right to me.”
  • “I need some space right now.”
  • “Please don’t do that.”

Then talk it through: How did that feel? What was hard? What helped you feel strong?

These mini rehearsals build real-world confidence.

Quick Takeaway: Try This Today

Here’s your challenge:
Today, pay attention to moments when your daughter expresses a need, says no, or sets a limit—and support her.

  • Say, “Thanks for telling me how you feel.”
  • Ask, “What do you need from me right now?”
  • Or tell her, “It’s okay to say no. I’ll always respect your voice.”

And then—live that out. Because when your daughter knows she can speak up with you, she’ll know she can speak up anywhere.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Teaching Life Skills in a Fun and Engaging Way

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We want our daughters to grow into confident, capable, and independent young women—and that starts with giving them the tools to thrive in everyday life.

But teaching life skills doesn’t have to feel like a chore, for you or for her. It can be:

  • A bonding activity
  • A confidence builder
  • A memory maker

And when it’s fun, she’ll want to keep learning more.

3 Ways to Make Life Skills Fun and Engaging

1. Turn It Into a Mini-Challenge

Take something simple—like cooking dinner, pumping gas, or sorting laundry—and turn it into a challenge.

  • “Let’s see who can fold the most shirts in two minutes.”
  • “You’re in charge of dinner tonight—but I’ll be your assistant chef!”
  • “Let’s create a $20 grocery list together and see what healthy meals we can make.”

This makes her feel empowered. She’s not just helping—she’s leading. And when you bring some friendly competition or creativity, she’ll lean in instead of zoning out.

2. Use Real Life as a Classroom

Life skills don’t have to be “taught” in a sit-down lesson—they’re everywhere.

  • Grocery store trip? Talk about comparing prices, reading labels, or budgeting.
  • Car ride? Teach her how to check the oil or change a tire.
  • Paying bills? Explain how to track expenses or save up for something important.

The key is to involve her—not just tell her. Ask questions. Invite her to try. Let her mess up and learn from it. That’s real growth.

3. Make It a Shared Project

Want to teach organization, planning, or teamwork? Start a project together.

  • Build a birdhouse
  • Plan a weekend getaway
  • Start a garden
  • Set a savings goal for something fun

Projects are a great way to sneak in multiple life skills while building something meaningful side-by-side. It becomes less about the lesson and more about the journey you take together.

Quick Takeaway: Try This Today

Here’s your challenge:
Pick one life skill your daughter hasn’t mastered yet—and teach it in a way that’s fun.

Maybe it’s:

  • Cooking a meal while listening to her favorite playlist
  • Creating a savings goal for something she wants
  • Turning laundry into a timed “level-up” game
  • Make it memorable. Make it fun. And make sure she knows:
    “I’m not just teaching you this because you need to know it. I’m teaching you because I believe in you.”

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Humor, Heart & Hard Truths: Dads Guiding Daughters Toward Adulthood

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If you’re a dad who wants to create a lasting, meaningful bond with your daughter, you won’t want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rob Finlay—bestselling author, accomplished entrepreneur, and dad of four (including three daughters)—for an honest, heartwarming discussion about the joys and challenges of fatherhood.

From the start, Dr. Lewis emphasizes that being a great dad is less about perfection and more about presence and intentional connection. There’s no universal playbook for fatherhood, especially when it comes to raising girls who are confident and independent. That’s why he brings in guests like Rob, who candidly shares both his successes and the lessons learned through mistakes.

One standout theme is the importance of vulnerability and authenticity. Rob talks about never hiding his emotions from his daughters, showing them by example that strength and sensitivity aren’t mutually exclusive. He wanted his girls to see a father who could be both a gentleman and deeply caring—teaching by doing rather than merely telling.

Throughout the conversation, both Dr. Lewis and Rob stress the value of teaching resilience and self-reliance. Rob encouraged his daughters to try new things, pushed them to stick with commitments, and allowed them to experience failure—knowing these moments are key to personal growth. He highlights the importance of letting daughters step into adulthood on their terms, supporting them with guidance rather than control.

Another powerful insight is Rob’s approach to life skills. Prompted by a late-night call from his daughter (“Can I put the green gas in my Jeep?”), Rob realized the value of giving kids the foundational tools they need to navigate adulthood—from financial conversations to problem-solving. His new book, Hey Dad, Everything You Should Have Learned About Life But Didn’t, is packed with practical, real-world advice and a healthy dose of humor to make learning approachable.

Fatherhood isn’t static, and the parent-child relationship evolves—what matters is open, honest communication and the willingness to keep learning together. Whether you’re helping your daughter make big life decisions or just sharing a favorite meal, every interaction counts.

Ready to be inspired? Listen to this heartfelt episode and take away actionable tips to deepen your connection with your daughter. Tune in at Dad and Daughter Connection—and start building those strong, confident relationships, one day at a time.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on this journey that we’re on. Learning more, doing more, and trying to be the dads that we want to be, to be able to build those connections that we want with our daughters one day at a time. And I first and foremost want to say thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:13]:
Thank you for always coming back every week and putting yourself out there to learn more. Because all of us are a work in progress and to be honest, none of us know everything that we need to know to be able to be the dads that we want to be. Becoming a dad does not have a playbook. It does. There’s no right way to father. But there’s a lot of things that you can learn along the way to help you to be that engaged, more present dad that you want to become. And especially in raising daughters, there are so many things that we can do to be able to build those positive relationships through positive communication. And that’s why every week I love being able to bring you different people, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to add some tools to your own toolbox that you can then take into the day to day experiences that you’re having with your daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]:
Today we got another great guest. Rob Findlay is with us today. And Rob’s not only a best selling author and accomplished entrepreneur, but also a dad of four. And as a part of those four, he has three daughters. His personal stories of late night calls for help paired with his professional expertise make him unique, uniquely qualified to speak to parents about raising capable, confident young adults. Plus, his engaging, no nonsense delivery resonates with anyone who ever who has ever googled how to reset a circuit breaker at 2:00am I love that. And we’re going to be talking about a brand new book that he has called hey, dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn’t. And it is definitely a humorous and practical guide to the real world lessons that every young adult needs to know, but that are not always taught.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
So we’re going to be talking about his book as well as, first and foremost, learning more about him as a dad. But, Rob, thank you so much for being here today.

Rob Finlay [00:03:04]:
Oh, thank you so much for having me on the show. I’ll tell you, I Wish you existed 20 plus years ago when I had daughters, because I’ll tell you, I grew up in a family with a brother, dad and mom, but. But maybe a little bit more traditional where it was very much a man’s household. And in fact, I go so far as my mom wouldn’t even put pantyhose that she would buy from the grocery store in the same bag. My brother and I could see it. So I grew up without any real understanding of what it was like to have a sister or anything until Lord blessed me one day with three beautiful daughters and I had no idea what I was doing. So I wish you were there years ago for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]:
Well, you can still learn and you never stop being a father to a daughter. So there’s always going to be more things to learn along the way. So that being said, I want to learn a little bit more about you as a dad, seeing that you come from that background. I guess as you think back to your daughters and raising your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Rob Finlay [00:04:07]:
I think one of the things is I was never afraid to show emotions in front of my daughters. I think that was a very different departure from maybe where I was, but they would know. And now it’s almost the joke of they see a movie with a dog dying or something sad in the movie that dad will cry. And I think it was important for them to see that emotion. At the same point, I also wanted them to see what I wanted to portray as a male to them, which is I’m polite, I’m respectful, I have manners, I have etiquette. Right? These are the things that were important. So I wanted to be a gentleman and maybe a little bit on the macho side, but also showing that I had enough sensitivity and tenderness that I could support them at either direction.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:49]:
As you just said that. I mean, you said you weren’t afraid to show that vulnerability, but at the same time, you also had that macho side as well. And so there’s A balance between both sides of that personality. And as you’re raising daughters, you’re trying to balance, also guiding them to give them the independence to grow into their own person. And so how did you do that?

Rob Finlay [00:05:15]:
I think it was about pushing them. I actually believe that I wanted to see them fail. I wanted to see. And I know that’s very hard. I mean, parents can’t. And probably back at the time, I probably didn’t. But in hindsight, I was much more open to them exploring their own paths and pushing them, but not being overbearing. I wanted them to have interest and do things on their own, keep them focused.

Rob Finlay [00:05:37]:
If they made a commitment to do cello, well, you’re going to take Chiello. You’re not going to try it for two days and then quit. You’re going to do it and you’re going to try it. But if you don’t like it after that, or if you. If you’re really horrible at it, doesn’t really matter, but at least you’ve tried it. And so those were some of the things that I did. One of the important things that I feel that for young adults and for young kids is to have a broader experience with other adults and other people outside their friend groups. And this was critical for me, that I wanted to make sure that my girls and my son, too, were comfortable networking, having adult conversations, and being exposed to things other than just mom and dad in their friend group.

Rob Finlay [00:06:19]:
And so since they were young, you had them in farming groups. I would have them come to business meals with me just so they could see what it was like to be exposed to something other than just the sort of the family unit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]:
As I said at the very beginning, going through this process of raising daughters is a learning process for all of us as fathers. And there are specific things that we all can do to be able to strengthen that bond with our daughters. For you, with three daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have done, have worked in the past or are currently working to strengthen your bonds with your daughters, and especially during challenging times?

Rob Finlay [00:07:00]:
I think, first of all, the young women that I see today, the young women that are my. My daughters, those are my daughters, we said, like, when they’re in their 20s, are very different than the young women that I knew 25 years ago when I was a young man. And the young ladies today that I’ve created and I’ve seen are much more independent. And therefore, the needs that they have tend to be more of financial understanding and business understanding and things like that. And my Daughters typically will come to me with questions that are much more about their financial independence than it is about navigating their own personal life or personal relationships. There I think there was a stage not, you know, all fathers, I think, go through this where your daughter is the apple in your eye and she’s there and she’s with you all the time and she’ll tell you everything. Then she goes to this different stage where maybe she’s not as comfortable talking to you about boyfriends and things that they’re doing. But then it comes back around where now these boyfriends are becoming, okay, this is not just a boyfriend, this is actually a serious relationship and we want to move in together.

Rob Finlay [00:08:06]:
So we start having those dialogues of that where it’s a very different situation. It’s not dad being emotional saying, okay, I’m bringing a boy to the house for the first time, it’s dad, this could be my life partner for life. And what are the things that I have to think about from a practical or even a, I don’t want to say business, but a financial standpoint. And that’s where these conversations have started. And these are very difficult conversations because at 20 some odd years old, these are adult conversations. When you’re talking about, one of my daughters has a very good job, her boyfriend does not, they’re sharing expenses, they’re living together. So now it becomes a different thing of, okay, well how do you protect these things that are yours and yet still have these relationships? And it’s almost equivalent to what a prenup agreement is to an adult. You’re now having these conversations with people who are in their early stage of adulting, just launching.

Rob Finlay [00:08:56]:
And they have so much to do anyways with just launching. They’re on this what I call magic carpet ride of life where from the day they’re born, basically until they have this big life moment which is graduation, and get thrown into the real world, everything is coming at them all at once. And now you have to compound it with some pretty difficult grown up conversations.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]:
So talk to me about that because you are having those conversations. And as I’m listening to that, I know I have a daughter in college right now, she’s not at that point yet. How do you approach that without stepping over the line and stepping into a lane that, that they don’t want you in? In that regard, I think at this.

Rob Finlay [00:09:36]:
Point is this is where you let your child fail to a level where it’s acceptable. But there are times where father knows best, even though they don’t like it and sometimes. But I’ve been around the block. I’ve experienced this myself. And so coming to them with this conversation, I think it’s more of the approach where I want them to come to their own conclusions, but the questions that I lead will prompt them. It’s not that I’m trying to show influence over my daughter, but rather use my influence to let them come and make the right decisions themselves. And they are hard. The first move in boyfriend is.

Rob Finlay [00:10:12]:
Is the big one, and we live together, and it’s gonna be wonderful. Oh, okay. But let me ask you, what would happen if, first things first, you get a pet together? Who gets the pet if something happens? Just think about. You make your own decisions. I think I’m very quick to do that with my girls. I want them to make the decisions, but let them know the consequences, the things that they don’t think about. Because you’re like, you’re at a. At an all you can eat buffet.

Rob Finlay [00:10:35]:
You want to eat as much as you possib you can without the consequences of, oh, geez, I just ate way too much later that night. And so it is about having the mind. And I think the important part of all of this is the demeanor that I have to provide to my daughters is one of very calm. And my wife is usually very good to maybe give me a little pinch. Right. If we’re on the call and I might get a little excited, they can hear it in my voice. I have to detune it a little bit because I think. And at least with my own experience, and it’s also a little skewed for me, because my day job is my business, just like yours.

Rob Finlay [00:11:08]:
You’re at the university. My day job is at a business, and I hire a lot of young analysts right out of college. And predominantly, they are young men. And so my management style with them is different. And just like with my son, my conversation, my tone with my son is very different. With my daughters, including each individual daughter, there’s a different approach to talk to each one. And so it just comes back to the demeanor has to be set, and the conversation, the tone has to be set commensurate with the child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:
You know, I know that there have been plenty of times that I’ve made mistakes, and none of us are infallible. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it in regards to fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:11:50]:
Well, I’ll tell you, there’s a lot of things. I mean, the whole Purpose of the book that I wrote was because of a late night phone call just on a certain instance. And I realized, have I taught my kids everything that they should know to go be an adult? And not that you have to know everything because you learn as an adult, you learn every day. But, but have I given them the foundation? Go out, get out on their own, get a job, get an apartment, make friends, become a good healthy adult. All of these things have I built them the foundation? And then it starts to do the. Where it spirals as a father, like, well, geez, you know what? I spent all my younger years when they were around trying to build a business thinking that it was important for me to provide for them. And maybe the providing that I should have given was maybe more emotional and less financial. So it starts to come around as what did I do wrong as a father? Now, fortunately I have a good relationship with all of my kids and but this book has really sort of opened up my eyes where I look back at all these things that I don’t know that I taught them.

Rob Finlay [00:12:49]:
Was it because I wasn’t there? Was I an absent father? Or was it maybe in many cases I told them and they didn’t listen, or was it because I wanted to take care of them? And I’m very guilty of that with my girls. My girls, if they know if there was a light that went on in their car, all they had to do is go up and say, hey dad, Daddy, there’s a light on in my car. And I would go run fix it it, I wouldn’t make them do it. Now in hindsight would have been better for me to push them back to solve their own problems.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
So let’s talk about your book. And as I mentioned, you do have this brand new book called hey dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn’t. And one of the things that I noticed when looking at the book, you talk about that green handle moment in your book and it’s a powerful moment. So it was that call that you got. And so tell me more about that call. But what did that call from your daughter teach you about the importance of dad and daughter communications in the transition to adulthood?

Rob Finlay [00:13:46]:
So the call to put give your listeners sort of the perspective, it’s the middle of the night, probably one or two o’clock in the morning, which for me that’s, that’s bedtime. I’m already asleep for hours here. And every parent fears this call in the middle of the night. And I got it and I look over and it’s one of my daughters calling. And I knew she was on a road trip. She was traveling from Wisconsin to go down to Austin, Texas. They were looking for a job. She was a college senior at the time.

Rob Finlay [00:14:12]:
And I’m panicked because my kids know that a call this late doesn’t. That has to be an emergency. She picked up, and I was like, what’s wrong? Because that’s my first instinct. What is wrong? Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? Nope. Hey, dad. Sorry to bother you. No, nothing. It’s just a very quick.

Rob Finlay [00:14:27]:
Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? And my heart rate has to come down, comes down. I’m starting to pain. I’m like, starting to think, okay, I’m woken up. Like, I finally realized, are you talking about diesel? Are you thinking about putting diesel in your Jeep? And she was almost hostile with me. Like, how dare I even. Yes, can I do it? Like, she was frustrated with me asking questions. And at that point I realized, like, you know, obviously, maybe I didn’t teach her this. This is shame on me.

Rob Finlay [00:14:52]:
But also at the same point, I felt like, was it because it was easier to call me than to go and look at it on her own? Right. Could she have done research? Could she have gone on Google? Right. I mean, we’re in the Internet society. There’s. There’s ways to get answers. And so I think it was more about that she wanted to reach out to me, to look for advice, to maybe in a reassuring moment, because there were some factors there that were going on, such as there was not to spoil this section of the book. It was. We had a fuel crisis on the east coast at that time, and none of the gas stations had gas.

Rob Finlay [00:15:25]:
And, you know, even while dad said, it’s probably not a great time to do a trip, how can I stop her from going? But it was more of like, is she just trying to get some reassurance? And I think that comes down to one of the things that I feel, and this is that moment, is I think my kids and my girls in particular know what to do. But sometimes it’s nice to have a little bit of reassurance. It’s reassurance from dad that, yeah, I am doing the right thing. Yes, I’m going to be okay, or maybe I’m not doing the right thing and maybe I should do this or think differently about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]:
So that kind of leads into another part in your book where you talk about letting your kids call you or as a father, into the playing field. Only when they’re ready. So how has that approach shaped your relationship with your daughters over time?

Rob Finlay [00:16:10]:
Look, I’m a businessman. I have no medical credentials, no nothing. It’s me as a dad trying to do the best I can. I think I probably pushed my kids out into situations probably faster than I should have. Now, it’s also siblings, right? So, I mean, the easiest way to go get a sibling to swim is to watch their other siblings swim. Of course, they want to do that naturally. And so while it’s probably more sheltering and sheltered with my son and then my next daughter, and then by the time the fourth one comes around, you’re a little bit more like, go ahead, go do these things. Go take responsibilities, having jobs, having chores, the girls grew up on a farm, about opening up and seeing things that are really, you’re not going to see on TV and you’re not going to see on social media.

Rob Finlay [00:16:54]:
And I think that was a big thing. And I think when I was writing this book, one of the things that I really wanted to do was go out and seek experts in the field of everything from finding an apartment to maintaining a car to what to do in emergencies, banking, insurance, taxes, all the things that I think are of core foundational purpose for young adults to become adults. And I think what I really did with this was I tried to mirror it, it to what my girls were learning and what I want them to learn going forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:26]:
Is there a story that you can share where that strategy for you either built more trust or even backfired?

Rob Finlay [00:17:33]:
The first thing I’ve learned, and I’m sure a lot of fathers know this, especially if their daughters are in. In dating age, if you say you don’t like the boy, he’s staying. I’ve learned very quickly that there are things that I do now that have backfired. When I try to say, you know what? A young man who’s coming to date, you should have a firm handshake. He should look at me in the eye. He should be polite. He should be polite to you. He should give attention to you, right? He should.

Rob Finlay [00:17:55]:
And when I realized that there’s a different way, once again, it comes back to the conversation. Letting them know, if I don’t like this guy, he doesn’t shake my hand, right? All that’s going to do is say, oh, that’s going to be my new boyfriend. But if I talk about how I’ve noticed these young men at my office, how great they are by being polite, or how important it is, and even this comes down to how I am as a father in particular. This is just a purely on relationship side, but my wife requires us to do once a week, date night, to spend time together. Not on our phone, not with everything. And I think the kids and, and my girls see that. It’s like it’s important that somebody give you attention, focus on you and make you feel special, because that is what you are to me. But dad’s blue in the face until I tell you how special you are.

Rob Finlay [00:18:41]:
I hear you, dad. I hear you. I hear you. But somebody else has to do that. And making them expect that is part of that learning of being an adult is getting the respect of yourself first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:52]:
A lot of times in my experience as a father, I have noticed that a lot of the life lessons that you see out in memes, in writing, a lot of that is focused on sons. Especially when you look at things like self reliance or money management or dealing with failure, There’s a lot of that out in the world. How did writing this book change or reinforce the kind of life lessons you think daughters specifically need from their dads today?

Rob Finlay [00:19:22]:
Personally, I don’t differentiate the two. I think there’s a couple things. One is I think the skills that I’m trying to talk about, the foundational skills that I talk about in my book are truly just what every adult. It doesn’t matter what you are, every adult needs to know how to do these basic things. This isn’t like one plus one. This is actually just more foundational. Right? It’s not about. About how to tie a tie, but rather when you should wear a tie or obviously daughter something different.

Rob Finlay [00:19:47]:
But to me, when I wrote the book, I wanted everybody to have these foundations because I think no matter what it is, if even it’s about life, it’s all the same. I can tell you though, what I have learned in all of this is that doing the research and talking to other parents, and talking to other parents in particular, it seems like the young ladies are actually more confident and are doing better and are at a very, very different path than young men. And I know that it’s not as popular of a conversation because I personally think everybody should be lifted. You should never have one group of people below the other. Everybody should be lifted. Everybody should. Being successful and having a good life. So after I wrote this book and talked to my girls and my son about it, it really became more of I think I’ve done okay, but not by me.

Rob Finlay [00:20:31]:
It’s probably because they’re smart, they’re independent, and they Take it upon themselves. And yes, they’ll ask crazy questions, questions, but it’s also a matter of time. Young adults today have not just their parents talking to them or their relationship with their dad, but they also have their relationship with social media. And so the influence that social media has, especially on some of these life lessons, is huge. A lot bigger than when I was growing up. As what mom and dad said, that was pretty much it. And yeah, my buddies, they’d be influences, but I don’t have a screen showing me what I should be making for a job. I don’t have a screen showing me how, at any moment, being compared to something.

Rob Finlay [00:21:05]:
And so I really do believe that it comes down to as parents. And the best thing that we can do with our sons and daughters is to encourage them to have confidence in themselves, give them the tools to be confident adults, because it comes quick and it comes pretty fast. And I know our first instinct is to protect them from it and keep them all. Let them save more money, let them stay at home, let them stay under the nest. I don’t know if that’s necessarily the best thing for young adults to get out into this world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:31]:
Your book has a lot of humor in it. And what role do you think humor plays in building deeper connections between fathers and daughters, especially when navigating those adulting fails?

Rob Finlay [00:21:43]:
Look, life is too stressful as it is. We have to, at some point, lighten up and make sure that we focus on what is really important. I look back in the fall we have when. When college acceptance come around, and the stress of these young adults and their parents is criminal. It’s absolutely criminal. The pressure that we put on for something. And this goes back to when I noticed the same thing. My first chapter on the book is probably one of the most profound and probably one of the hardest ones for me to.

Rob Finlay [00:22:10]:
To write because it was about emotion. It was like all of a sudden you’re on this, what I call that magic carpet ride, and it stops. And you as a young adult, are now faced with where to live, what to do for a job, all these other factors, and it might be too much for you, and it becomes overwhelming. And one of my daughters just recently went through this where she didn’t know where she was going to live. She didn’t know what she was going to do for a job. Her career path through college had changed because the market had changed. And this poor thing, the stress consumed her. And at some point I just had to laugh and just say, listen, this just life, it’s Important, but relax.

Rob Finlay [00:22:44]:
And so one of the first things I do when I talk to young adults, just take a deep breath. The decision you make today on your first job or where you’re going to live is not going to be your last decision. You are going to make these decisions. So having humor and putting that in sort of lightens the load a little bit. It’s also sort of my style, too. I don’t want to stress them out even more. Oh, my gosh, yes, you need to have the right job. Because if you don’t have the right job first, well, you’ll never get your second job.

Rob Finlay [00:23:08]:
The second job won’t be great. I don’t think that is beneficial. Letting him relax, going into a situation. It was actually probably the Navy SEAL who I interviewed in the book was probably on emergencies, probably tied it all back to me, which was he’s like, look, when people get anxious, they make mistakes. And so relax. Understand the situation. If you can relax, then you can find your way out of it. So in that same tune.

Rob Finlay [00:23:31]:
So it’s sort of fitting that that last part of the book is what to do in Emergencies, written by a Navy SEAL and an emergency parameter medic. What ties back into the first part, which is my people that I interviewed were clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and how to tie it back, which is just relax. You can make good decisions if you relax and think clearly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
Now, your book also emphasizes getting a plan and visualizing a life. How can dads help daughters develop a life direction without overwhelming them with their own expectations?

Rob Finlay [00:24:02]:
For me, one of the stories I put in there is actually one of my daughters loves hiking. Hiking loves being in the outdoors. And we sort of talk about that hiking path, right? And so I asked her, I’m like, well, what do you like in hiking? Like, how do you pick what you want to go? And she would say, well, if I want to hike on the beach, I go pick a hike towards the beach. If I want to hike in the mountains, I want to go pick a hike in the mountains. And we use that as an analogy to sort of talk about life. Well, where do you want to go? Do you want to be in science or what? So trying to take their interests and tie it back into a story, more of a narrative, into helping them. Them pick what they want. And if you can equate it back to things that are simple like a hike, she’s like, oh, wait, hike.

Rob Finlay [00:24:43]:
Yeah, I really like science. And you know what the best part about a hike is? If you don’t like it, you can turn left, right, or go back. You can do different things. And so using those kind of stories and those kind of tools will help them write the narrative of their own. I also believe in a lot in visualization. Describe to me. I love movies, I love television shows. And so I’m always like, let’s create a scene for me.

Rob Finlay [00:25:06]:
Where do you work? Give me a picture of that. Talk to me. Are you driving into the office or are you walking knowing would you live in a city or would you be in the suburbs? And letting them build their own story in their brain. And that helps them get the sort of the, the, the destination and the direction started. It’s not going to be everything, but it’s going to give them the start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]:
Now, if people want to find out more about the book, about you, where should they go?

Rob Finlay [00:25:30]:
So they can go to heydadbook.com which is all about the book. If they want to learn more about me and the, the other stuff I’ve done, they can go to rob finlay.com that’s f I n l a y.com also on all the social media stuff. So I try to show things from work, things from the book, things from the farm, try to make it as interesting as I can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]:
Now I always finish our interviews with what I call our dad Connection 6, which asks you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you and your relationship with your daughters. Are you ready?

Rob Finlay [00:26:04]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:05]:
What’s one word that describes your relationships with your daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:26:08]:
Strong.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:09]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Rob Finlay [00:26:13]:
Don’t give up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:14]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Rob Finlay [00:26:18]:
Eating. They’re going to hate me, by the way, when they get this. They’re going to, they’re going to like, follow me. I’m going to hear all about this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Rob Finlay [00:26:28]:
Be happy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Rob Finlay [00:26:34]:
That I actually have it in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:36]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:26:43]:
Be open and honest and communicate well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:46]:
Rob, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for your willingness to share your own journey with your daughters. Thank you for putting this book out into the world. I’ll definitely put links in the notes today for everyone to be able to find you and find the book. But I truly appreciate all that you’re doing to be able to help fathers to connect with their kids in different ways, help young adults to make that transition into adulthood and more. And I wish you all the best.

Rob Finlay [00:27:15]:
Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:27:48]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.