modern parenting Archives

Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child

August 10, 2026 by dadofdivas

This week’s episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

The Power of Being Present: Fatherhood Lessons with Mitesh Khatri

April 27, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

What does it really mean to be a great dad to a daughter? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection digs deep into this all-important question. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis, joined by guest Mitesh Khatri—Melbourne father, writer, and corporate strategist—explores the daily challenges, triumphs, and small yet powerful moments that shape our relationships with our daughters.

A central theme of the conversation is the importance of being truly present. As Mitesh Khatri candidly shares, simply being in the room is not enough; it’s about showing up emotionally and giving your attention, especially during routines like bedtime or unstructured play. One meaningful moment he describes is when his young daughter told him to “stop rushing me.” This wake-up call led him to rethink how often stress and distraction rob us of precious connection—and how even “routine” moments can become the foundation of trust and closeness.

The episode also explores the challenge of balancing professional ambitions with family life. Mitesh Khatri discusses how corporate careers often offer clear metrics of success—promotions, projects, and accolades—whereas fatherhood can feel less measurable. The takeaway? We must create our own scorecards within our families: counting moments of connection, presence, and patience as real victories.

Perhaps most powerfully, the episode underscores the need for vulnerability. Mitesh Khatri opens up about his struggles with stress, his journey to calm his nervous system, and his realization that anger often masks deeper feelings like disappointment or sadness. He introduces practical strategies—like pausing before reacting and honest journaling—to help break generational cycles and model healthier emotional regulation for our daughters.

For dads who worry about not getting it right, Mitesh Khatri says it’s not about perfection, but about trying. He advocates for intentionality, ongoing learning, and talking openly with other dads. As host Dr. Christopher Lewis reminds listeners, “being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present.”

If you’re searching for practical insight and heartfelt stories on building meaningful father-daughter relationships, this is one episode you shouldn’t miss. Tune in to The Dad and Daughter Connection for real conversations that will leave you inspired to show up, connect, and be the dad she needs.

Listen now and start building your own toolkit for intentional, loving fatherhood.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to delve a little bit deeper and into the relationships that you want to build with your kids. And I love that you’re here. Every week you’re here, you’ve rolled up your sleeves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]:
You are doing what you can to be able to show up for your daughters in so many different ways. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists to help you to be that dad that you want to be. And I try to bring you different people, different people with different experiences every week to allow for you to be able to learn something new, to gain some tools for your toolbox that can help you to be able to be that dad. Today we’ve got another great guest. Mitesh Khatri is with us today. And Mitesh is a father from Melbourne, Australia. He’s got two kids himself and we’re going to focus on his daughter, but he also has a son and we’re going to learn a little bit more about him and I’m really excited to have him here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]:
Mitesh, thanks so much for being here today.

Mitesh Khatri [00:01:53]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And really appreciate all the work you do for fatherhood and dads and daughter in this connection. This podcast is fantastic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]:
Well, I really appreciate that you’re here today and we’re going to talk about a new book that you have out to help fathers in many different ways as well. But. But we always start our interviews talking a little bit about you as a dad and especially as a dad to a daughter. And I know you’ve got a six year old daughter and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper. And I guess as you’re thinking about your relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful mom that you’ve been able to share with your daughter, what made it so special?

Mitesh Khatri [00:02:28]:
Yeah, I think one of my most meaningful moments has definitely been the bedtime routine. I think it’s been really. Because it’s come from a moment where it wasn’t the best moment for me. So, you know, there was a time when I was completely stressed out. Two young kids, and my daughter was four. My son was five and a half. And I remember my son is quite direct. But my daughter, she is more subtle in her ways of expressing her emotions.

Mitesh Khatri [00:02:54]:
And she said to me one night, and as I was putting her to bed, four years old, looked up to me and said, you know, stop rushing me. Those three words, I just froze. And she wasn’t being difficult. I was trying to get through the routine. Please put on your pajamas, brush your teeth, go to the bathroom, read a book or two, or cut it short. I was stressed, I was depleted, and I didn’t want to be there in the room mentally, even though, you know, my beautiful daughter was just asking me to be there and to actually be present with her. And we talk about present all the time. I hear it on your podcast.

Mitesh Khatri [00:03:23]:
It’s all be present. It’s so difficult to do. You can’t think yourself to be present in the moment. You physically can sometimes not be able to be present, and your mind is rushing and your body is not allowing you to do that. So it was quite a low moment. But today, when I look at it, it’s one of the most beautiful times I have, is to put her to sleep every day, read her books, that routine, the cuddle she gives. And I look at her now, she’s six years old, just turned in April. We take time with that routine, and I really cherish that time.

Mitesh Khatri [00:03:51]:
Is she’s so sweet and she has the cutest smile and the cuddles and kisses you get at that time, you think, well, you know, I’m never going to get this back. And she’s only going to be this age, like this, this moment. So we have to make the most of it, because they do fade. I hear it from people with older children. You have clearly girls that have grown up. You have to appreciate that. And so I think my best moments, they’re around the bedtime routine because you get to talk about the day. You get to talk about what they really enjoyed, what they liked in the day, what they didn’t and might do differently.

Mitesh Khatri [00:04:21]:
And it’s really sort of deep, meaningful connections which you might not get it. Sort of school pickup. How was your day?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:26]:
So talk to me a little bit about that transition that you had to go through because just hearing those three words, you can’t switch on a dime. You definitely have to go through a process for yourself to, I’m going to say, reinvent yourself in many different ways to be able to change that paradigm for yourself. So talk to me a little bit about that and what you had to do to be able to make that shift. I’m guessing failing a few times along the way and then getting to the point where you are now.

Mitesh Khatri [00:04:55]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, what I found was I thought I could think myself to be present and calm. And actually I found at that point my, my body was tense. It was stressed out from work, stressed out from home work, life management, all things that new dads or sort of dads at least, I mean all dads, but especially with the young children, you have a lot of competing priorities. And I didn’t think to look there, but actually looked to my body and I was tense in the shoulders, my back was hurting, I felt I was short of breath. Deadlines and emails and what’s next for the kids in terms of what we need to take care of. And I had to go through a bit of journey to really understand how to relax my nervous system. Right.

Mitesh Khatri [00:05:38]:
Ultimately our. If we think back to sort of hunter gatherer times and we think about the threats we had, right? We always talk about the lion and we sort of have to run away from the lion, the threat, and then our sort of nervous system can calm down. In today’s day and age, we all know with technology and the pace of life, there’s almost this ambient stress and therefore our automatic nervous system actually never sort of calms down. So we need to be sort of this safe and secure place. Polyvagal theory sort of talks about this where you need to be safe and secure. The next stage is survival mode and then complete shutdown. And I think many of us, at least me at the time, I was at least in survival mode every day, if not shut down on every other day. And I had to get my body back and I had to sort of calm my body.

Mitesh Khatri [00:06:25]:
And I have a sort of framework in the book around how we can discharge that stress. And there’s techniques and things you can learn to do. And I sort of had to learn how to do that and how to bring my body back to its irregular state.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:38]:
And that’s never easy. And I guess one thing that comes to mind is you and I talked at the very beginning that you’re a busy guy, you have Your professional work, you’re balancing that. You’re balancing being a dad, you’re balancing other things in your life. So talk to me about balance and how you’ve been able to find that optimal balance for yourself to be able to be the professional you want to be, the person you want to be, the father you want to be as you are today.

Mitesh Khatri [00:07:04]:
Yeah, I think balance is a very interesting word. Right. I think you have to really dig deep. If I sort of bring a parallel to corporate life, and I’ve been in corporate Life for like 20 years, helping organizations with complex jobs, blue chip organizations. I’m a sort of marketing corporate strategist, working in research and consulting. And, you know, we’re helping brands launch new products and services and ensure they meet consumer needs and doing some complex work around that. And I was sort of succeeding in that sort of arena because I had the metrics to sort of measure and perhaps in the most important area of my life, my family and my children, I didn’t have the metrics, I didn’t have the measure, and I felt like I was failing. It always came sort of second.

Mitesh Khatri [00:07:44]:
And I think myself, and when I talk to other dads in the community and friends and colleagues, I find it’s an easier thing to measure. So men sort of go towards things we can measure and we get that affirmation we’re seeking from work. We get praised with it. And it’s this scoreboard, I think, that we can easily track and see. When I think fatherhood’s not so easy, it’s in feelings, it’s in moments, it’s in those relationships where you can feel them. But you sort of. No one sort of celebrates the dad that comes home at 5pm on time to put his kids to sleep. But you do get the accolades and success at work when you succeed in your career.

Mitesh Khatri [00:08:19]:
And I’m not saying that we should sort of give up and forego our careers. I think it’s. It’s finding ways to measure things that matter. Those moments at home. So it might be the time that you don’t actually have your phone on you and just. Just have unstructured play with your children. You’re just getting on the floor. You’re not in any structured piece of work or structured time is taking them to dance, taking to music, taking him to soccer practice.

Mitesh Khatri [00:08:42]:
You know, that’s very structured. And kids need. Kids need that structure. But I think almost equally important or more important, they need that unstructured time. So I think when you can have those moments, you can say I’ve had 1, 2, 3, 4 moments this week where I’ve had really had unstructured time and play with my daughter. Whether we’re doing teacups or playing with Barbie dolls or kicking the ball outside. Those are the measures of success that I just didn’t have. I had all the traditional stuff, the KPIs that you get in your corporate life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:10]:
And there’s always this push and pull when it comes to raising daughters. And as you are trying to raise your daughters, you’re balancing, trying to guide your daughter while also giving her the independence to become the person that she’s becoming. And I know she’s still young, but I guess as she has been growing up. How do you balance that? How do you balance guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence?

Mitesh Khatri [00:09:32]:
Yeah, I think it’s a really interesting one. I think kids in general, but daughters especially you are the model they’re looking to when it comes to men right from a very young age age. So there’s, there’s that scanning they do of the environment to see how do you react to situations, how do you carry yourself when things get tough, how do you treat your partner, her mum, you know, how are you treating different women, how do you sort of interact, how do you talk to friends that are female, how do you just treat people in general? So I think they’re modeling and learning of what a man should be. So I think you want to sort of help them with that. And in terms of independence, I think it really comes down to having honest, open conversations as much as you can for that age where you can really help them distinguish between right and wrong. What is the right kind thing to do and what is not so kind, what are the sort of right behaviors to be following? I guess. And one of the things I’m always mindful of is no one’s a perfect father, but not moving straight from a stimulus like some sort of stressor, straight to anger. And I think we as men tend to do that, perhaps more when especially I was doing that quite a bit where I’d find myself, kids are running late to school, we need to go.

Mitesh Khatri [00:10:41]:
And I actually get really angry. It’d come out in the force in my voice. And then you sort of how it is, you tell your kids not to shout at the other one and that’s what you’re doing and that’s the behavior and modeling. So I think modeling the right behavior is pretty critical. And that sort of journey of really understanding myself, modeling the right behaviors was pretty critical for Me for the last sort of two years. And, you know, recognizing that actually underneath that anger, it’s actually not anger that we’re feeling often. Maybe we’re hurt because actually we really wanted to spend that hour playing with our daughters before they go to school. Maybe we’re sad because.

Mitesh Khatri [00:11:14]:
Or disappointed because we wanted the morning to go a particular way and on time and not be late for something else. And we sort of go straight. We almost skip that emotion in between. Sadness, disappointment, hurt. Because I think we just weren’t taught that. And therefore our daughters are learning that. They’re modeling that as well. You know, when I get angry, I’ll just.

Mitesh Khatri [00:11:33]:
I’ll just go straight to voice, you know, raise my voice and actually not express my emotions. So I’m trying to say I’m hurt. I’m sorry I didn’t do the right thing there. And I apologize. I felt really sad that we couldn’t be on time because of these reasons. So it’s trying to label the emotion and model that. But I think the independence thing is hard. I think you’re always scanning the environment to go, how much do I let her go? How much do I pull her back in? Whether it’s at parties, whether it’s devices, whether it’s certain foods she might be eating or whatever it is.

Mitesh Khatri [00:12:02]:
That’s a tricky one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:03]:
Completely understand. And we never have all the right answers. I mean, we definitely do our best and we try our best to be the best people we can be, but we’re flawed. Everybody is flawed in talking about that, I guess. What’s the mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it, about fostering a positive connection with your daughter?

Mitesh Khatri [00:12:22]:
I think I’ve made lots of mistakes. Probably like many dads, we all make lots of mistakes. I think one potential mistake I’ve made my daughter, and it probably comes from being that almost pushy parent when it comes to activities in sports. So sports or music or whatever it is really pushing them, maybe pushing them too much as well. We’re often projecting our own childhoods onto our kids. And they can lose the fun, you know, in what they’re doing, whether it’s dance or they’re playing some sport or whatever it is, and I think you want them to do well. But I think it’s also recognizing that they’re just kids, you know, we’re not sort of in the professional leagues. So I think I’ve really learned from that.

Mitesh Khatri [00:13:02]:
To not be the parent on the sideline shouting. I think it’s encouraging your kids, but not in a way that’s perhaps disrupting their sort of natural way to enjoy what they’re doing, whether it’s. Yeah. Dance or sport or whatever it is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:16]:
Now, as I mentioned, you’ve got a new book that’s out there called the Fight or Father Using Calm to Stop Reacting and Start Connecting. As a author myself, I know that many times when you’ve got this idea in your head and you got this passion to be able to get these words out and trying to connect with your people that, that you go all in. But you definitely have to have a passion for it to get to that finish line. So give me the story of the book and tell. Talk to me about why. Why you decided to write it, why you decided to put the time, the effort and the passion into it to get it out into the world.

Mitesh Khatri [00:13:52]:
I never thought I’d be a writer myself, but I’ve always sort of been research and really, as I was saying to you earlier before we started, always very interested in why people do what they do and what drives our behavior, what motivates us. Right. So I mean, I’m the sort of tragic in the self help section looking at the next book and going, how can I learn from this? I wrote this book because I think modern fatherhood is really breaking men and the expectations have changed and you’re supposed to be a provider and present with your kids. You’re meant to be the breadwinner and also emotionally available. And no one really taught us. If we think about our father’s generation, they didn’t really teach us how to do that. Our fathers really had a role which was sacrifice, commit yourself and be the breadwinner and be respected at home and very traditional household. I guess I’m talking to.

Mitesh Khatri [00:14:40]:
And I think I see a lot of modern parents for really my sort of discoveries on this journey started about five years ago. Kids very young. I see a lot of dads just grinding through it, myself included, exhausted, distracted. We’re snapping at our kids. We sort of promise ourselves we’re going to do better tomorrow and. But deep down we know something’s wrong, something’s not working. We need better tools, we need better ways to parent and we know that it’s a learning process at all. So I wrote this in almost a way to sort of say we can choose to fight and react and be in that sort of survival mode or shutdown mode when stresses hit with our kids, or we can choose a almost new way to father modern fatherhood.

Mitesh Khatri [00:15:19]:
I think it takes the best of what our fathers taught us. And it builds on that. And I think it builds on, you know, a lot of what you talk about, Christopher, is, is showing vulnerability. We need to show vulnerability to our children. We need to show not just the masculine side, but actually it’s okay to get things wrong. And this is what you do to repair that. And I think, I’m sure there’s lots of books that sort of talk to various things around that out there. I didn’t see something targeted specifically at that aspect.

Mitesh Khatri [00:15:45]:
And therefore, yeah, really focused in my own journey of switching from a dad that was reacting all the time at his kids, didn’t have the patience. As I said, my body was chronically stressed at the time. I put on weight and wasn’t eating well. I was numbing pain through alcohol, etc. And it’s not enough to just think yourself to a better version of yourself. You need tools, you need techniques. So I wrote the book and have got some practical techniques on what dads can do. You know, simple things like just having clear boundaries between work and home.

Mitesh Khatri [00:16:18]:
It’s so difficult, particularly post Covid. Many of us are working home in hybrid sort of environments and it blurs. You have your kids next to you in the school holidays. We’ve got school holidays going on now. My son or daughter will work almost in the same room in a work mode. I might close the laptop, but still mentally be processing the emails that I haven’t sent, the tasks I haven’t done. So I think it’s having those practices to say, you know, simple things, five seconds, where you might go, I’m home now, I’ve closed the laptop, let me show up. Or you might go wash your face or you might go change your clothes.

Mitesh Khatri [00:16:48]:
It’s just physically doing something. You might do 20 star jumps. But you need that transition process and just one example from work to home. So that calm framework is really around that. So you clear your body of the stress. Firstly, you anchor yourself between work and home. So have a ritual around that. You lead with calm because kids follow your regulations.

Mitesh Khatri [00:17:09]:
You need to be calm and have techniques for that and model and repair is probably the most important part where when you get it wrong and you will like myself every day, there’ll be something I do wrong, I need to admit to it and I need to label what that emotion is, which is then going into my vulnerable side, you know, it’s going into really understanding what that emotion is, not just anger and then coming up with a repair, you know. So yeah, I just remember I Actually had an argument with my daughter. I was stressed this A couple of days ago. She wanted to play. She can we play. She likes doing tea parties and cafes in her room. And I didn’t have the patient. And I just said to her, I’m really tired.

Mitesh Khatri [00:17:47]:
I’m stressed. I’ve had a long day and a hard day. And I shouted at you, is it okay if we start again? And she just looked at me and she said, okay, dad. And I think previously I would have just shouted and said, I’m not doing this, and it’s time for bed. So I think. I think it’s having those skills. It’s. Firstly, I’ve been quite vulnerable in the book myself.

Mitesh Khatri [00:18:04]:
So, you know, I’ve had sort of beta readers say it’s been quite difficult to read at times because they’ve seen themselves in it as well. So I think it’ll. It’ll definitely make you turn the mirror on yourself and analyze your own life, your own behaviors, and perhaps you’ll pick a couple of techniques and tools that you can use to just be that modern father and not fight all the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]:
And one of the things you write about in the book is being there, but not there. And many dads believe simply being physically present is enough. What helped you recognize the difference between proximity and true presence? And how can dads begin to see that difference in their own lives?

Mitesh Khatri [00:18:42]:
I like the bedtime routine with my daughter. It was actually that really broke me when she said, stop rushing me. And you really, you know, reflect on those things and try to make a change. And you don’t always get it right. But my son said to me one day, he was on the, I think, kitchen table, dining table. I was scrolling on Instagram, you know, usual blur posts that we would normally go, just mindless, scrolling, doom scrolling. And Taj was nearby and he. I don’t know what he was doing exactly.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:08]:
And that was part of the problem. And without looking up, he said, you’re always on your phone, dad. Not angry. He wasn’t whining, just like matter of the fact. Like, he was describing the weather. And I looked at him and, you know, his face was soft. He was disappointed. He wasn’t trying to start a fight with me about it, that he was just telling me the facts for what he saw.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:26]:
And I said automatically, almost automatically, I’m not quite defensive. I just need to do this one thing. And clearly I was lying to him, right? I wasn’t being honest. I was lying to him. I wasn’t being honest to myself. I put the phone down in that moment and I felt my chest get tight and I had a little shake in my hands and I felt enormous guilt that he had just seen me more clearly than I had seen myself. And I think we’ve all been there and I think researchers, you know, we’ve heard this all the time, we hear about phones all the time. But technically interference.

Mitesh Khatri [00:19:57]:
Dr. Brandon Michael actually coined the term where seemingly sort of normal amounts of phone use during parent child time. It’s actually linked to increased behavioral problems in children. So the screen time, not because of the screen time itself, but what it communicates like. You’re not important to me. Right. Right now, in this moment, this is most important to me. We’ve all heard that before.

Mitesh Khatri [00:20:18]:
So that’s what I mean by you’re there, but you’re not really there. You’re in the room physically, but in your mind you’re somewhere else. You’re in another place, you’re thinking about something else. You’re not actually aware of your surroundings. You’re not actually picking up the cues or the people in the room. So I think that in itself because it increases the behavioral problems and we see how much time we spend on our phones and screens. It’s something which I’ve been much more conscious with. Now the phone goes on the charger.

Mitesh Khatri [00:20:44]:
Leave it there at 6pm in the evening. Sometimes I’ll throw it upstairs in the bedroom in a drawer. Because when it’s there we’re just so automatic. We’re so addicted to these devices that are in our pockets that are so powerful. So I think that’s really what I mean. We’re not there. And that can be a physical device, but it can also be actually we haven’t decompressed from the day and we’ve got all the stress from work or so we’re thinking about something else. We’re actually not there with our family.

Mitesh Khatri [00:21:08]:
We’re just unavailable and we’re not in tuned with not engaging with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:12]:
Now one of the other things that I read in the book was you talk about how many fathers suddenly hear their own dad’s voice coming out of their mouths during those stressful moments that you kind of talked about. When that realization happens, what practical steps help a father pause long enough to break that generational pat?

Mitesh Khatri [00:21:32]:
Yeah, that is a real difficult one. I think. I think what I’ve done is pause for five seconds. So when you see your voice coming, and you might even hear, you might even see in your children yourself, then your father talking to you In a particular way, that is really difficult. And I think we have to appreciate everything they did for us in terms of sacrificing, building a life and opportunities for us, and appreciate all those things. But at the same time, they maybe didn’t know how to deal with that stress or anxiety, anger. And when I say anger, it could be hurt, it could be disappointment, it could be sadness around something. So I think, you know, pausing, reflecting.

Mitesh Khatri [00:22:10]:
It’s a lot of journaling. So the last five years, on and off, journaling, I haven’t been as regular. But journaling on those moments where you know that you’ve almost automatically reacted in a way, and you can hear your father’s voice, whether it’s the harshness, whether it’s the criticism, whether it was the absence of. Of a father. I think we tend to overcompensate from what we had or didn’t have. And I think it’s a lot of deep reflection that needs to be done. But I just encourage everyone to just pause, pause. You don’t have to respond straight away to your kids.

Mitesh Khatri [00:22:41]:
You can pause for a couple of seconds, reflect, and actually sit with those thoughts. I think you got to do quite a bit of deep work and journal and plenty of services out there where you can talk to psychiatrists and psychologists and so forth to really understand the relationships with our parents. I think I’d also encourage if. If you can and your father’s around, have a conversation with him, Talk to him about things that you really have a lot of gratitude for and the things you wish that he could have done better. I think those things, and it’s not sort of pointing the finger or blaming anyone, it’s just having those honest conversations. And I think you’d be surprised where that might take you as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:17]:
It definitely is a journey. And a lot of times we’re constantly trying to find new ways to be able to measure up as a dad. And we look around us and we think, oh, all these dads are doing better than we are. And there’s almost that. As you talk in the book about that scorecard that we have in our book, about how we are grading ourself, how we’re scoring ourselves, and you talk about rethinking that internal scorecard that we use to measure success. What are the most common invisible scorecards that you’re seeing that fathers are running, and how do they quietly pull dads away from connection with their kids? But also, how can we change the script on those scorecards and allow for us to be able to look at that in a different way.

Mitesh Khatri [00:24:03]:
Yeah, I think that there’s a powerful primary story here. We almost have this deep obligation we have to build, we have to secure, we have to work long hours. We have to sacrifice. Sacrifice is love. And love looks like a mortgage paid off, a fridge that’s full, a future that’s funded for the kids. And that is important, you know, and elements of that are really important. And it’s a powerful story, and it has deep roots in human history, and male identity has been shaped by that. And I sort of talked about this a little bit earlier, earlier in the sense that fathers of men that do that, you know, they keep reinforcing that scorecard that exists.

Mitesh Khatri [00:24:37]:
So, you know, status follows the achievement. Respect comes with that success. The man is getting the promotion or close the deal or starting a new business and is an entrepreneur. They get admired. But we’re not throwing the awards and accolades for the dad who’s performing really well at home with his kids and actually teaching them about vulnerability, teaching them about how to regulate themselves, teaching them about how to show kindness and how to introduce themselves and respect others and be part of the community and. And, you know, have strong values and those sort of things. So I think men chase the thing that’s being rewarded, and we pour ourselves into that, you know, into our careers and into our work, and then we don’t have much left for the family. So.

Mitesh Khatri [00:25:16]:
And I think what fathers can do is have that sort of scorecard for themselves. So I have read sort of James Clear Atomic Habits, and, you know, we’re all sort of creatures of habits. So in my diary that I physically write, I write time with my wife, specific things I want to do, time with my kids, specific activities, time for my exercise. And I tick those things off, right? So I’m not just my career ticks and successes, but actually, what are my goals for my relationship with my son, my relationship with my daughter, my wife? What are my goals? How am I working towards that and am I sharing those goals, what I’m trying to do? So I think almost like we have KPIs for work, if you have a team and you have some employees and you sort of evaluate them, you can’t evaluate them on something you haven’t actually given clear KPIs on. And I think it’s hard to evaluate yourself on your family life if you’re not clear on those KPIs as well, and your children as well. If you want them to respect other people and talk with kindness, then you need to Teach them that. So you need to sit down, maybe it’s 10 minutes, maybe it’s a couple of hours where you need to show them what kindness looks like. How do you actually talk to someone? How do you greet someone? You know, how do you leave a social situation in a respectful way? I think those things we don’t measure and therefore we just think they just happen and get done.

Mitesh Khatri [00:26:34]:
I think, you know, the adult, the age old sort of saying what gets measured gets done in corporate life also matters in our personal life. And so we need to create those measures at home. And I don’t really know what the perfect measures are. It might just be that I had a beautiful moment with my kid today, you know, have a box for that and it’s a tick. So there were three nice things that my child said to somebody else as a measure around that. I think we need to create our own measures of success and have some KPI guys similar to what we would do in our career, because that’s how you get to the next level. You sort of can’t do that in your relationships if you don’t know what those measures of success are. So I think we all need to sort of create those.

Mitesh Khatri [00:27:12]:
And they’re going to be different for different, you know, whether it’s a girl or a boy or different ages, you sort of need to come up with those and your kids can be part of it, your wife can be part of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:20]:
The one thing I really liked about your book, and I think we could spend the next few hours talking about different aspects of your book, but one of the things that I really liked was the fact that your book, as you said, wasn’t written from the perspective of someone that’s figured everything out. You talk about where you are now, what you’ve learned along the way, but at the same time that you’re still failing, that you’re still flawed, and that there’s still things to learn. So as you are continuing your journey, what are you still learning about fatherhood that is surprising you?

Mitesh Khatri [00:27:52]:
So there’s just everyday surprises, I guess, with kids. You know, they sort of surprise you in different ways. But I’m just trying to think of more sort of themes that surprise you. Me, I think their maturity surprises me. You sort of sometimes underestimate how much your kids are learning as they grow up and where they’re at. They’re 7 and 6 and my daughter’s 6 years old, but you know, she knows a lot about the world and she is very mature when she needs to be And I sort of sometimes don’t want that to go away. Like her being very young, that small little girl, that beautiful girl that I put to bed at bedtime, I don’t want her to grow up to too quick. So, I mean, coming back to your question, what, what am I still learning is I think our kids are becoming independent and learning more than sometimes we appreciate or sort of take notice of.

Mitesh Khatri [00:28:38]:
And I mean, that’s come back, comes back to your independence. You know how, you know, you want them to have that independence and learn and grow and not slow them down in those settings. But I think my natural instincts is maybe to slow them down at the age they’re at and make sure they don’t grow up too quickly. So I think that’s a tough sort of battle I’m sort of facing. That’s what sort of comes to mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:58]:
And I guess finally, as I think about your book and for you, as you think about the legacy that you’re leaving behind in the book, you ask fathers to consider what their children are going to remember about them. If your kids were adults today, in reflecting on your parenting journey, what do you hope that they would say, say most about you?

Mitesh Khatri [00:29:21]:
I hope my children at the start of my book, this book is for every that that’s trying and I hope they see that I really tried. I, I got it right a lot of the time and probably got it wrong a lot of the time as well. So I think if I can have them growing up seeing a man that really tried to improve themselves, really tried to improve himself around his relationship with them and worked hard at the that and didn’t take my situation and where I was, as you know, that’s how it is. And I improved on who I was and knowing that those I was never going to be perfect and that I tried, that I love them, that I wanted the best for them and wanted to support them in everything that they did. So particularly with Alia, if I think about her, she has a lot of strength and it’s through sensitivity. She feels our feelings much more than my son will. She’ll notice things in others. She’ll carry emotions that’s probably bigger than a small little body.

Mitesh Khatri [00:30:18]:
I want her to know that she really has a superpower there in terms of that emotional intelligence and she can sort of really sense the situation. I hope that I give them the foundations of what being a good person is, what a kind person is, that vulnerability is strength. Whether you’re, whether it’s my daughter or my son being vulnerable, being Self aware, being calm when things get tough, showing emotional strength. They’re going to be the backbone of everything that sort of helps you in your life, whether it’s career or family or social. I want them to get rid of emotional sort of just thinking about it, but I just want them to remember myself and my wife really loved and cared and, and did everything for them to ensure that they got the right values in life, that they got all the opportunities they wanted to have, and that we really tried, that we always loved them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:06]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:16]:
All right, let’s try it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:17]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:20]:
Beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:21]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:26]:
Work on you first. Start with yourself. Then you can serve the people you love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:31]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Mitesh Khatri [00:31:35]:
There’s many, but. Bedtimes, tea parties, playing with her dolls. I’m definitely a dad that has not done that until my daughter came along. So really getting down on the floor and playing those games. Games. Originally I felt quite ridiculous doing it, but then I thought I found joy in it because I’ve just never done it before. Just freeing into my sports and, you know, all the manly activities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:55]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:00]:
You know, always, always speak your mind and stand up for yourself. You have a lot of potential.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:06]:
Now, you’ve mentioned a number of these, but what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:12]:
So much. Yeah. Um, that you really need a lot of patience. We hear it all the time. But I think more importantly, everything you do has to be quite intentional and intentional. And I’ve heard you talk about it. Chris. Christopher as well.

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:23]:
Intentionality is probably one of those cornerstones of everything you’re doing in fatherhood, especially with your daughters. You’ve got to be quite intentional, but not, obviously, taking away from unstructured play time. But by being intentional, you can be present, you can be there, not outside the room.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:39]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful, meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Mitesh Khatri [00:32:46]:
Treat vulnerability as strength. And I think if you were to journal or you talk to some close mates and dads and actually really get into the deep and meaningful and get vulnerable. And in my book, I have A lot of stories from other dads I run with and friends and we start to realize that we’re living parallel lives and when we get vulnerable, something unlocks, we learn something. And I think men don’t talk enough. So I’m a big advocate of dads talking about talking. And podcasts like this bring different topics and things dads are going through to, to life because we tend to bottle everything up right. We’re not very good at that. So I just encourage everyone to talk to someone and around things you’re going through and it might surprise you that actually somebody else might be going through very something very similar and can you can relate and you can bond over that.

Mitesh Khatri [00:33:35]:
So make sure you join these sort of podcasts or some sort of dad group or have a set of friends you can can have those conversations with.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:45]:
Well, Mitesh, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for putting this book out into the world, for sharing your journey with us today. And it’s not over, but I know that it’ll keep continuing and you’ll keep learning. But I truly want to say thank you and I wish you all the best.

Mitesh Khatri [00:33:59]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. Really appreciate it. And yeah, the book comes out on 28th of July, so it’ll be available Amazon, all sort of good book stores.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]:
We’ll definitely put a link in the notes today and I congratulate you on getting this out into the world and look forward to others reading it and learning from what you’ve learned along the way.

Mitesh Khatri [00:34:17]:
Thank you so much, Christopho.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:18]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at the end dad and daughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:34:49]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the miracle we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to now Be the best dad you can be the best that you can be.

Humor, Heart & Hard Truths: Dads Guiding Daughters Toward Adulthood

September 1, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad who wants to create a lasting, meaningful bond with your daughter, you won’t want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rob Finlay—bestselling author, accomplished entrepreneur, and dad of four (including three daughters)—for an honest, heartwarming discussion about the joys and challenges of fatherhood.

From the start, Dr. Lewis emphasizes that being a great dad is less about perfection and more about presence and intentional connection. There’s no universal playbook for fatherhood, especially when it comes to raising girls who are confident and independent. That’s why he brings in guests like Rob, who candidly shares both his successes and the lessons learned through mistakes.

One standout theme is the importance of vulnerability and authenticity. Rob talks about never hiding his emotions from his daughters, showing them by example that strength and sensitivity aren’t mutually exclusive. He wanted his girls to see a father who could be both a gentleman and deeply caring—teaching by doing rather than merely telling.

Throughout the conversation, both Dr. Lewis and Rob stress the value of teaching resilience and self-reliance. Rob encouraged his daughters to try new things, pushed them to stick with commitments, and allowed them to experience failure—knowing these moments are key to personal growth. He highlights the importance of letting daughters step into adulthood on their terms, supporting them with guidance rather than control.

Another powerful insight is Rob’s approach to life skills. Prompted by a late-night call from his daughter (“Can I put the green gas in my Jeep?”), Rob realized the value of giving kids the foundational tools they need to navigate adulthood—from financial conversations to problem-solving. His new book, Hey Dad, Everything You Should Have Learned About Life But Didn’t, is packed with practical, real-world advice and a healthy dose of humor to make learning approachable.

Fatherhood isn’t static, and the parent-child relationship evolves—what matters is open, honest communication and the willingness to keep learning together. Whether you’re helping your daughter make big life decisions or just sharing a favorite meal, every interaction counts.

Ready to be inspired? Listen to this heartfelt episode and take away actionable tips to deepen your connection with your daughter. Tune in at Dad and Daughter Connection—and start building those strong, confident relationships, one day at a time.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on this journey that we’re on. Learning more, doing more, and trying to be the dads that we want to be, to be able to build those connections that we want with our daughters one day at a time. And I first and foremost want to say thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:13]:
Thank you for always coming back every week and putting yourself out there to learn more. Because all of us are a work in progress and to be honest, none of us know everything that we need to know to be able to be the dads that we want to be. Becoming a dad does not have a playbook. It does. There’s no right way to father. But there’s a lot of things that you can learn along the way to help you to be that engaged, more present dad that you want to become. And especially in raising daughters, there are so many things that we can do to be able to build those positive relationships through positive communication. And that’s why every week I love being able to bring you different people, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to add some tools to your own toolbox that you can then take into the day to day experiences that you’re having with your daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]:
Today we got another great guest. Rob Findlay is with us today. And Rob’s not only a best selling author and accomplished entrepreneur, but also a dad of four. And as a part of those four, he has three daughters. His personal stories of late night calls for help paired with his professional expertise make him unique, uniquely qualified to speak to parents about raising capable, confident young adults. Plus, his engaging, no nonsense delivery resonates with anyone who ever who has ever googled how to reset a circuit breaker at 2:00am I love that. And we’re going to be talking about a brand new book that he has called hey, dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn’t. And it is definitely a humorous and practical guide to the real world lessons that every young adult needs to know, but that are not always taught.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
So we’re going to be talking about his book as well as, first and foremost, learning more about him as a dad. But, Rob, thank you so much for being here today.

Rob Finlay [00:03:04]:
Oh, thank you so much for having me on the show. I’ll tell you, I Wish you existed 20 plus years ago when I had daughters, because I’ll tell you, I grew up in a family with a brother, dad and mom, but. But maybe a little bit more traditional where it was very much a man’s household. And in fact, I go so far as my mom wouldn’t even put pantyhose that she would buy from the grocery store in the same bag. My brother and I could see it. So I grew up without any real understanding of what it was like to have a sister or anything until Lord blessed me one day with three beautiful daughters and I had no idea what I was doing. So I wish you were there years ago for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]:
Well, you can still learn and you never stop being a father to a daughter. So there’s always going to be more things to learn along the way. So that being said, I want to learn a little bit more about you as a dad, seeing that you come from that background. I guess as you think back to your daughters and raising your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Rob Finlay [00:04:07]:
I think one of the things is I was never afraid to show emotions in front of my daughters. I think that was a very different departure from maybe where I was, but they would know. And now it’s almost the joke of they see a movie with a dog dying or something sad in the movie that dad will cry. And I think it was important for them to see that emotion. At the same point, I also wanted them to see what I wanted to portray as a male to them, which is I’m polite, I’m respectful, I have manners, I have etiquette. Right? These are the things that were important. So I wanted to be a gentleman and maybe a little bit on the macho side, but also showing that I had enough sensitivity and tenderness that I could support them at either direction.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:49]:
As you just said that. I mean, you said you weren’t afraid to show that vulnerability, but at the same time, you also had that macho side as well. And so there’s A balance between both sides of that personality. And as you’re raising daughters, you’re trying to balance, also guiding them to give them the independence to grow into their own person. And so how did you do that?

Rob Finlay [00:05:15]:
I think it was about pushing them. I actually believe that I wanted to see them fail. I wanted to see. And I know that’s very hard. I mean, parents can’t. And probably back at the time, I probably didn’t. But in hindsight, I was much more open to them exploring their own paths and pushing them, but not being overbearing. I wanted them to have interest and do things on their own, keep them focused.

Rob Finlay [00:05:37]:
If they made a commitment to do cello, well, you’re going to take Chiello. You’re not going to try it for two days and then quit. You’re going to do it and you’re going to try it. But if you don’t like it after that, or if you. If you’re really horrible at it, doesn’t really matter, but at least you’ve tried it. And so those were some of the things that I did. One of the important things that I feel that for young adults and for young kids is to have a broader experience with other adults and other people outside their friend groups. And this was critical for me, that I wanted to make sure that my girls and my son, too, were comfortable networking, having adult conversations, and being exposed to things other than just mom and dad in their friend group.

Rob Finlay [00:06:19]:
And so since they were young, you had them in farming groups. I would have them come to business meals with me just so they could see what it was like to be exposed to something other than just the sort of the family unit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]:
As I said at the very beginning, going through this process of raising daughters is a learning process for all of us as fathers. And there are specific things that we all can do to be able to strengthen that bond with our daughters. For you, with three daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have done, have worked in the past or are currently working to strengthen your bonds with your daughters, and especially during challenging times?

Rob Finlay [00:07:00]:
I think, first of all, the young women that I see today, the young women that are my. My daughters, those are my daughters, we said, like, when they’re in their 20s, are very different than the young women that I knew 25 years ago when I was a young man. And the young ladies today that I’ve created and I’ve seen are much more independent. And therefore, the needs that they have tend to be more of financial understanding and business understanding and things like that. And my Daughters typically will come to me with questions that are much more about their financial independence than it is about navigating their own personal life or personal relationships. There I think there was a stage not, you know, all fathers, I think, go through this where your daughter is the apple in your eye and she’s there and she’s with you all the time and she’ll tell you everything. Then she goes to this different stage where maybe she’s not as comfortable talking to you about boyfriends and things that they’re doing. But then it comes back around where now these boyfriends are becoming, okay, this is not just a boyfriend, this is actually a serious relationship and we want to move in together.

Rob Finlay [00:08:06]:
So we start having those dialogues of that where it’s a very different situation. It’s not dad being emotional saying, okay, I’m bringing a boy to the house for the first time, it’s dad, this could be my life partner for life. And what are the things that I have to think about from a practical or even a, I don’t want to say business, but a financial standpoint. And that’s where these conversations have started. And these are very difficult conversations because at 20 some odd years old, these are adult conversations. When you’re talking about, one of my daughters has a very good job, her boyfriend does not, they’re sharing expenses, they’re living together. So now it becomes a different thing of, okay, well how do you protect these things that are yours and yet still have these relationships? And it’s almost equivalent to what a prenup agreement is to an adult. You’re now having these conversations with people who are in their early stage of adulting, just launching.

Rob Finlay [00:08:56]:
And they have so much to do anyways with just launching. They’re on this what I call magic carpet ride of life where from the day they’re born, basically until they have this big life moment which is graduation, and get thrown into the real world, everything is coming at them all at once. And now you have to compound it with some pretty difficult grown up conversations.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]:
So talk to me about that because you are having those conversations. And as I’m listening to that, I know I have a daughter in college right now, she’s not at that point yet. How do you approach that without stepping over the line and stepping into a lane that, that they don’t want you in? In that regard, I think at this.

Rob Finlay [00:09:36]:
Point is this is where you let your child fail to a level where it’s acceptable. But there are times where father knows best, even though they don’t like it and sometimes. But I’ve been around the block. I’ve experienced this myself. And so coming to them with this conversation, I think it’s more of the approach where I want them to come to their own conclusions, but the questions that I lead will prompt them. It’s not that I’m trying to show influence over my daughter, but rather use my influence to let them come and make the right decisions themselves. And they are hard. The first move in boyfriend is.

Rob Finlay [00:10:12]:
Is the big one, and we live together, and it’s gonna be wonderful. Oh, okay. But let me ask you, what would happen if, first things first, you get a pet together? Who gets the pet if something happens? Just think about. You make your own decisions. I think I’m very quick to do that with my girls. I want them to make the decisions, but let them know the consequences, the things that they don’t think about. Because you’re like, you’re at a. At an all you can eat buffet.

Rob Finlay [00:10:35]:
You want to eat as much as you possib you can without the consequences of, oh, geez, I just ate way too much later that night. And so it is about having the mind. And I think the important part of all of this is the demeanor that I have to provide to my daughters is one of very calm. And my wife is usually very good to maybe give me a little pinch. Right. If we’re on the call and I might get a little excited, they can hear it in my voice. I have to detune it a little bit because I think. And at least with my own experience, and it’s also a little skewed for me, because my day job is my business, just like yours.

Rob Finlay [00:11:08]:
You’re at the university. My day job is at a business, and I hire a lot of young analysts right out of college. And predominantly, they are young men. And so my management style with them is different. And just like with my son, my conversation, my tone with my son is very different. With my daughters, including each individual daughter, there’s a different approach to talk to each one. And so it just comes back to the demeanor has to be set, and the conversation, the tone has to be set commensurate with the child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:
You know, I know that there have been plenty of times that I’ve made mistakes, and none of us are infallible. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it in regards to fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:11:50]:
Well, I’ll tell you, there’s a lot of things. I mean, the whole Purpose of the book that I wrote was because of a late night phone call just on a certain instance. And I realized, have I taught my kids everything that they should know to go be an adult? And not that you have to know everything because you learn as an adult, you learn every day. But, but have I given them the foundation? Go out, get out on their own, get a job, get an apartment, make friends, become a good healthy adult. All of these things have I built them the foundation? And then it starts to do the. Where it spirals as a father, like, well, geez, you know what? I spent all my younger years when they were around trying to build a business thinking that it was important for me to provide for them. And maybe the providing that I should have given was maybe more emotional and less financial. So it starts to come around as what did I do wrong as a father? Now, fortunately I have a good relationship with all of my kids and but this book has really sort of opened up my eyes where I look back at all these things that I don’t know that I taught them.

Rob Finlay [00:12:49]:
Was it because I wasn’t there? Was I an absent father? Or was it maybe in many cases I told them and they didn’t listen, or was it because I wanted to take care of them? And I’m very guilty of that with my girls. My girls, if they know if there was a light that went on in their car, all they had to do is go up and say, hey dad, Daddy, there’s a light on in my car. And I would go run fix it it, I wouldn’t make them do it. Now in hindsight would have been better for me to push them back to solve their own problems.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
So let’s talk about your book. And as I mentioned, you do have this brand new book called hey dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn’t. And one of the things that I noticed when looking at the book, you talk about that green handle moment in your book and it’s a powerful moment. So it was that call that you got. And so tell me more about that call. But what did that call from your daughter teach you about the importance of dad and daughter communications in the transition to adulthood?

Rob Finlay [00:13:46]:
So the call to put give your listeners sort of the perspective, it’s the middle of the night, probably one or two o’clock in the morning, which for me that’s, that’s bedtime. I’m already asleep for hours here. And every parent fears this call in the middle of the night. And I got it and I look over and it’s one of my daughters calling. And I knew she was on a road trip. She was traveling from Wisconsin to go down to Austin, Texas. They were looking for a job. She was a college senior at the time.

Rob Finlay [00:14:12]:
And I’m panicked because my kids know that a call this late doesn’t. That has to be an emergency. She picked up, and I was like, what’s wrong? Because that’s my first instinct. What is wrong? Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? Nope. Hey, dad. Sorry to bother you. No, nothing. It’s just a very quick.

Rob Finlay [00:14:27]:
Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? And my heart rate has to come down, comes down. I’m starting to pain. I’m like, starting to think, okay, I’m woken up. Like, I finally realized, are you talking about diesel? Are you thinking about putting diesel in your Jeep? And she was almost hostile with me. Like, how dare I even. Yes, can I do it? Like, she was frustrated with me asking questions. And at that point I realized, like, you know, obviously, maybe I didn’t teach her this. This is shame on me.

Rob Finlay [00:14:52]:
But also at the same point, I felt like, was it because it was easier to call me than to go and look at it on her own? Right. Could she have done research? Could she have gone on Google? Right. I mean, we’re in the Internet society. There’s. There’s ways to get answers. And so I think it was more about that she wanted to reach out to me, to look for advice, to maybe in a reassuring moment, because there were some factors there that were going on, such as there was not to spoil this section of the book. It was. We had a fuel crisis on the east coast at that time, and none of the gas stations had gas.

Rob Finlay [00:15:25]:
And, you know, even while dad said, it’s probably not a great time to do a trip, how can I stop her from going? But it was more of like, is she just trying to get some reassurance? And I think that comes down to one of the things that I feel, and this is that moment, is I think my kids and my girls in particular know what to do. But sometimes it’s nice to have a little bit of reassurance. It’s reassurance from dad that, yeah, I am doing the right thing. Yes, I’m going to be okay, or maybe I’m not doing the right thing and maybe I should do this or think differently about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]:
So that kind of leads into another part in your book where you talk about letting your kids call you or as a father, into the playing field. Only when they’re ready. So how has that approach shaped your relationship with your daughters over time?

Rob Finlay [00:16:10]:
Look, I’m a businessman. I have no medical credentials, no nothing. It’s me as a dad trying to do the best I can. I think I probably pushed my kids out into situations probably faster than I should have. Now, it’s also siblings, right? So, I mean, the easiest way to go get a sibling to swim is to watch their other siblings swim. Of course, they want to do that naturally. And so while it’s probably more sheltering and sheltered with my son and then my next daughter, and then by the time the fourth one comes around, you’re a little bit more like, go ahead, go do these things. Go take responsibilities, having jobs, having chores, the girls grew up on a farm, about opening up and seeing things that are really, you’re not going to see on TV and you’re not going to see on social media.

Rob Finlay [00:16:54]:
And I think that was a big thing. And I think when I was writing this book, one of the things that I really wanted to do was go out and seek experts in the field of everything from finding an apartment to maintaining a car to what to do in emergencies, banking, insurance, taxes, all the things that I think are of core foundational purpose for young adults to become adults. And I think what I really did with this was I tried to mirror it, it to what my girls were learning and what I want them to learn going forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:26]:
Is there a story that you can share where that strategy for you either built more trust or even backfired?

Rob Finlay [00:17:33]:
The first thing I’ve learned, and I’m sure a lot of fathers know this, especially if their daughters are in. In dating age, if you say you don’t like the boy, he’s staying. I’ve learned very quickly that there are things that I do now that have backfired. When I try to say, you know what? A young man who’s coming to date, you should have a firm handshake. He should look at me in the eye. He should be polite. He should be polite to you. He should give attention to you, right? He should.

Rob Finlay [00:17:55]:
And when I realized that there’s a different way, once again, it comes back to the conversation. Letting them know, if I don’t like this guy, he doesn’t shake my hand, right? All that’s going to do is say, oh, that’s going to be my new boyfriend. But if I talk about how I’ve noticed these young men at my office, how great they are by being polite, or how important it is, and even this comes down to how I am as a father in particular. This is just a purely on relationship side, but my wife requires us to do once a week, date night, to spend time together. Not on our phone, not with everything. And I think the kids and, and my girls see that. It’s like it’s important that somebody give you attention, focus on you and make you feel special, because that is what you are to me. But dad’s blue in the face until I tell you how special you are.

Rob Finlay [00:18:41]:
I hear you, dad. I hear you. I hear you. But somebody else has to do that. And making them expect that is part of that learning of being an adult is getting the respect of yourself first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:52]:
A lot of times in my experience as a father, I have noticed that a lot of the life lessons that you see out in memes, in writing, a lot of that is focused on sons. Especially when you look at things like self reliance or money management or dealing with failure, There’s a lot of that out in the world. How did writing this book change or reinforce the kind of life lessons you think daughters specifically need from their dads today?

Rob Finlay [00:19:22]:
Personally, I don’t differentiate the two. I think there’s a couple things. One is I think the skills that I’m trying to talk about, the foundational skills that I talk about in my book are truly just what every adult. It doesn’t matter what you are, every adult needs to know how to do these basic things. This isn’t like one plus one. This is actually just more foundational. Right? It’s not about. About how to tie a tie, but rather when you should wear a tie or obviously daughter something different.

Rob Finlay [00:19:47]:
But to me, when I wrote the book, I wanted everybody to have these foundations because I think no matter what it is, if even it’s about life, it’s all the same. I can tell you though, what I have learned in all of this is that doing the research and talking to other parents, and talking to other parents in particular, it seems like the young ladies are actually more confident and are doing better and are at a very, very different path than young men. And I know that it’s not as popular of a conversation because I personally think everybody should be lifted. You should never have one group of people below the other. Everybody should be lifted. Everybody should. Being successful and having a good life. So after I wrote this book and talked to my girls and my son about it, it really became more of I think I’ve done okay, but not by me.

Rob Finlay [00:20:31]:
It’s probably because they’re smart, they’re independent, and they Take it upon themselves. And yes, they’ll ask crazy questions, questions, but it’s also a matter of time. Young adults today have not just their parents talking to them or their relationship with their dad, but they also have their relationship with social media. And so the influence that social media has, especially on some of these life lessons, is huge. A lot bigger than when I was growing up. As what mom and dad said, that was pretty much it. And yeah, my buddies, they’d be influences, but I don’t have a screen showing me what I should be making for a job. I don’t have a screen showing me how, at any moment, being compared to something.

Rob Finlay [00:21:05]:
And so I really do believe that it comes down to as parents. And the best thing that we can do with our sons and daughters is to encourage them to have confidence in themselves, give them the tools to be confident adults, because it comes quick and it comes pretty fast. And I know our first instinct is to protect them from it and keep them all. Let them save more money, let them stay at home, let them stay under the nest. I don’t know if that’s necessarily the best thing for young adults to get out into this world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:31]:
Your book has a lot of humor in it. And what role do you think humor plays in building deeper connections between fathers and daughters, especially when navigating those adulting fails?

Rob Finlay [00:21:43]:
Look, life is too stressful as it is. We have to, at some point, lighten up and make sure that we focus on what is really important. I look back in the fall we have when. When college acceptance come around, and the stress of these young adults and their parents is criminal. It’s absolutely criminal. The pressure that we put on for something. And this goes back to when I noticed the same thing. My first chapter on the book is probably one of the most profound and probably one of the hardest ones for me to.

Rob Finlay [00:22:10]:
To write because it was about emotion. It was like all of a sudden you’re on this, what I call that magic carpet ride, and it stops. And you as a young adult, are now faced with where to live, what to do for a job, all these other factors, and it might be too much for you, and it becomes overwhelming. And one of my daughters just recently went through this where she didn’t know where she was going to live. She didn’t know what she was going to do for a job. Her career path through college had changed because the market had changed. And this poor thing, the stress consumed her. And at some point I just had to laugh and just say, listen, this just life, it’s Important, but relax.

Rob Finlay [00:22:44]:
And so one of the first things I do when I talk to young adults, just take a deep breath. The decision you make today on your first job or where you’re going to live is not going to be your last decision. You are going to make these decisions. So having humor and putting that in sort of lightens the load a little bit. It’s also sort of my style, too. I don’t want to stress them out even more. Oh, my gosh, yes, you need to have the right job. Because if you don’t have the right job first, well, you’ll never get your second job.

Rob Finlay [00:23:08]:
The second job won’t be great. I don’t think that is beneficial. Letting him relax, going into a situation. It was actually probably the Navy SEAL who I interviewed in the book was probably on emergencies, probably tied it all back to me, which was he’s like, look, when people get anxious, they make mistakes. And so relax. Understand the situation. If you can relax, then you can find your way out of it. So in that same tune.

Rob Finlay [00:23:31]:
So it’s sort of fitting that that last part of the book is what to do in Emergencies, written by a Navy SEAL and an emergency parameter medic. What ties back into the first part, which is my people that I interviewed were clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and how to tie it back, which is just relax. You can make good decisions if you relax and think clearly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
Now, your book also emphasizes getting a plan and visualizing a life. How can dads help daughters develop a life direction without overwhelming them with their own expectations?

Rob Finlay [00:24:02]:
For me, one of the stories I put in there is actually one of my daughters loves hiking. Hiking loves being in the outdoors. And we sort of talk about that hiking path, right? And so I asked her, I’m like, well, what do you like in hiking? Like, how do you pick what you want to go? And she would say, well, if I want to hike on the beach, I go pick a hike towards the beach. If I want to hike in the mountains, I want to go pick a hike in the mountains. And we use that as an analogy to sort of talk about life. Well, where do you want to go? Do you want to be in science or what? So trying to take their interests and tie it back into a story, more of a narrative, into helping them. Them pick what they want. And if you can equate it back to things that are simple like a hike, she’s like, oh, wait, hike.

Rob Finlay [00:24:43]:
Yeah, I really like science. And you know what the best part about a hike is? If you don’t like it, you can turn left, right, or go back. You can do different things. And so using those kind of stories and those kind of tools will help them write the narrative of their own. I also believe in a lot in visualization. Describe to me. I love movies, I love television shows. And so I’m always like, let’s create a scene for me.

Rob Finlay [00:25:06]:
Where do you work? Give me a picture of that. Talk to me. Are you driving into the office or are you walking knowing would you live in a city or would you be in the suburbs? And letting them build their own story in their brain. And that helps them get the sort of the, the, the destination and the direction started. It’s not going to be everything, but it’s going to give them the start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]:
Now, if people want to find out more about the book, about you, where should they go?

Rob Finlay [00:25:30]:
So they can go to heydadbook.com which is all about the book. If they want to learn more about me and the, the other stuff I’ve done, they can go to rob finlay.com that’s f I n l a y.com also on all the social media stuff. So I try to show things from work, things from the book, things from the farm, try to make it as interesting as I can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]:
Now I always finish our interviews with what I call our dad Connection 6, which asks you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you and your relationship with your daughters. Are you ready?

Rob Finlay [00:26:04]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:05]:
What’s one word that describes your relationships with your daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:26:08]:
Strong.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:09]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Rob Finlay [00:26:13]:
Don’t give up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:14]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Rob Finlay [00:26:18]:
Eating. They’re going to hate me, by the way, when they get this. They’re going to, they’re going to like, follow me. I’m going to hear all about this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Rob Finlay [00:26:28]:
Be happy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Rob Finlay [00:26:34]:
That I actually have it in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:36]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:26:43]:
Be open and honest and communicate well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:46]:
Rob, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for your willingness to share your own journey with your daughters. Thank you for putting this book out into the world. I’ll definitely put links in the notes today for everyone to be able to find you and find the book. But I truly appreciate all that you’re doing to be able to help fathers to connect with their kids in different ways, help young adults to make that transition into adulthood and more. And I wish you all the best.

Rob Finlay [00:27:15]:
Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:27:48]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.