trust Archives - Dad of Divas

How to Let Go and Let Grow: Encouraging Independence in Daughters

August 24, 2026 by dadofdivas

Are you a dad searching for practical ways to foster a stronger bond and raise your daughter to be capable, resilient, and self-assured? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Lenore Skenazy, journalist, author, and founder of the Free-Range Kids movement, for a timely, inspiring discussion on balancing love, trust, and independence in parenting.

Challenging the Culture of Fear

One of the episode’s powerful themes is how today’s parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing “what ifs” from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children’s experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

The Power of Trust and Letting Go

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential “trust loop,” where letting children try things on their own—whether it’s walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, “When adults step back, kids step up.” True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

Practical Steps for Parents

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they’re small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own “let grow” experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you’ll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

Join the Movement

This episode isn’t just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today’s anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]:
I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It’s not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that’s okay. That’s why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’m a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we’ve got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I’m really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you’ve ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she’s an author, she’s founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she’s often called America’s worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]:
Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we’ve become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad’s been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things he didn’t do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn’t expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn’t have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn’t have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]:
Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it’s not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn’t have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]:
And that didn’t bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]:
As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]:
Well, here’s the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he’s looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man’s, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don’t say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]:
And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It’s the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he’s very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he’ll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he’s just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he’s— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it’s an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]:
And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you’re putting somebody else’s emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]:
And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it’s the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what’s your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]:
Now, I know you said your dad’s been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]:
Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I’m pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and ’20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we’d get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]:
And God knows how many toothpicks he’d go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]:
Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I’m going to say the world, because you’ve been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let’s go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]:
Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he’d never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we’re always on the subways. We don’t have a car and he’s a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale’s fancy department store where we don’t shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]:
So he’d never been there before. And it’s built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today’s the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]:
He’d finally been let loose and he’d proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, ’cause it didn’t strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I’ll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That’s wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]:
But what if he wasn’t? What if he’d been thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that’s what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you’re not doing that too, if you’re not saying, well, I’d like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who’s, you know, 5’6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I’m not going to let her walk. And that’s a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I’ve been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you’d have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]:
How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]:
Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]:
Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]:
Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]:
Yeah, because it’s an extraordinarily rare crime. It’s not extraordinarily rare on TV. It’s pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn’t happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It’s generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you’re gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn’t let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]:
You know, there’s drunk drivers out there, there’s bad drivers out there, there’s elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn’t let them live in a house with stairs or there’s a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you’ll never see him again. And that’s, that’s as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it’s like, I can’t let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It’s like, I’m really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it’s like, well, you should be. It’s like, but I’m not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]:
Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I’m like, I’m just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don’t care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You know, from everything I’ve seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]:
But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]:
from everything I’ve read, it seems like it’s actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]:
Well, I think you’ve nailed it. The way I’ve started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I’d love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I’d never see him again and I would— couldn’t live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I’d be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won’t let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]:
It’s sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It’s not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend’s house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you’re sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there’s horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]:
First of all, you’re a parent, you’re going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you’re— you, you’ve given birth to a child and now you’re going to worry about them. There’s no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they’re thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they’re a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn’t remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you’re so proud, right? You’re so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you’re a parent. I’ll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]:
You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she’s out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]:
Yeah, it’s not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn’t there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I’ve raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we’re there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we’re there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]:
And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we’re always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that’s because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We’ve really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]:
But look, that’s part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don’t get that. It’s, it’s the fun of— well, it’s the fun of seeing your kid after you haven’t seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you’re so much taller and you’ve filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that’s why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]:
But it’s also about Stepping back, because it’s true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you’re with your kids, you see what they’re doing wrong. Oh, that’s sloppy. That’s a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn’t do it that way. Here, let me help. It’s just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]:
It’s not because you’re a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It’s because when you’re with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don’t want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids’ adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that’s free, free, free, free, um, that’s called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents’ permission. But without your parents. And then each month there’s a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there’s a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]:
You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it’s really just to create that action that I’m talking about, ’cause action breaks the cycle. You’re afraid this’ll be terrible. If you’re really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend’s kid go out together. They don’t have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]:
and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can’t see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we’re there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it’s so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It’s like, yeah, because they haven’t eaten. They haven’t eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]:
And we’ve taken that out and we’ve given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I’d say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there’s, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that’s also just for home use, quote unquote. It’s like a game. It’s like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there’s 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he’s right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]:
And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That’s a very constricted childhood and that’s a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that’s the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it’s, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody’s doing it. You don’t feel weird, you don’t feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn’t do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]:
But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you’re drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger’s and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that’s nice. Or the laundry. That’s good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]:
You know, it doesn’t take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I’ve seen is that it’s just this loosening. It’s just a little loosening. There’s a little bit of pride. There’s a little bit of movement. And then it’s like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What’s a post office, Mom? I’ll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]:
So I’d say any movement is better than no movement, and it’s often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]:
What’s some of your favorite stories of, we’ll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]:
This is the one that I’ve heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it’s worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, ’cause it’s almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She’s sort of the apotheosis of what’s happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who’s 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It’s, it’s like, because someone’s going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don’t know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let’s put it that way, or excessive, right? I won’t say crazy, I’ll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]:
But anyways, he comes home, he’s got the Let Grow experience, He’s a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He’s in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can’t I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she’s like, okay, because she’s been— she’s getting used to it. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s a word in psychology, I think it’s accommodating or whatever it is. She’s getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]:
And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there’s 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]:
And then they’re all over the neighborhood and they’re zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it’s like locusts. They’ll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she’s now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]:
live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she’s also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can’t believe it. I’m gonna call the school. You know, I’m gonna get out there. That’s so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]:
Don’t worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we’re handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can’t keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let’s call him Steve. You can’t keep being mean to Steve. You know, that’s just not fair, or, you know, we won’t ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it’s true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]:
I guess as I think about what you’re saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you’re saying. So you talk about what you’re doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]:
A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They’re not good helpers. They’re terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they’re part of. And so don’t thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]:
And then when they’re older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it’s really good advice. It’ll take longer, but in the end, you’ll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you’re doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children’s museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it’s because they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]:
And they told Group B, they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they’re struggling with a button or a toggle, that’s actually learning? They’re learning every time they try to do something, even if they’re not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]:
And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that’s just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]:
that’s very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can’t show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, ’90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]:
That’s all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they’re going to be online. I would be too. It’s the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]:
So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we’re going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]:
Friday afternoons, I’m gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I’m not gonna be watching them, but there’ll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they’ll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there’s, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]:
Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]:
Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I’ve been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor’s wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you’re trying something in the real world, at first you’re not good at it, whether it’s making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn’t fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I’ve done something like that before, or, I’ve never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you’re wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven’t done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]:
So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that’s all I’m saying. It’s just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]:
First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I’m just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it’s let’s go or let it grow or let’s get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it’s letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it’s actually quite hard, I don’t know. It’s let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]:
So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They’re gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she’d been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That’s a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I’m gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]:
Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]:
Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]:
As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]:
I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there’s a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you’ve heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can’t make them into something. We can’t make a physicist. We can’t make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can’t make a genius. You can’t make a jerk. There’s a lot that’s innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]:
And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can’t make an Einstein and you can’t really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]:
Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you’re doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I’ve fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we’ve done some good things too. But we’ve also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]:
You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that’s just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It’s like, that’s not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We’re all humans and we’re going to make mistakes. And I think that what you’re doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]:
Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child

August 10, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

This week’s episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Supporting Passions: A Father-Daughter Story of Trust, Creativity, and Growth

May 18, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

On the latest episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis brings listeners an inspiring and heartfelt conversation with Drew Bennett and his daughter Eva. This episode dives deep into the journey of father-daughter relationships, the importance of celebrating individuality, and how simple acts of connection can shape a daughter’s confidence and independence.

One of the standout themes is the power of acceptance and encouragement. From a young age, Eva shares how Drew Bennett always made her feel seen, heard, and valued – whether through supporting her interests in comics and pop culture, or giving her the freedom to express herself creatively. Eva Bennett highlights moments where her dad invested wholeheartedly in her passions, from discussing favorite characters to spending weekends at comic conventions. These shared experiences became more than hobbies; they were opportunities to bond, laugh, and build trust.

Cosplay, in particular, played a unique role in strengthening their connection. Eva Bennett describes their adventures crafting costumes for conventions, often designing duo costumes (like Lord of the Rings’ Eowyn and Theoden or Spider-Verse’s Peter B. and Mayday Parker). Drew Bennett shows up not just as her dad, but as a supportive partner in creativity – accompanying her to events, holding props, and celebrating her success.

But this episode isn’t just about shared interests – it’s also about giving children the independence to grow. Drew Bennett reflects on the balance of guidance and freedom, stressing the value of supporting his daughter’s choices and letting her explore her own path. Eva Bennett expresses gratitude for this sense of trust, which helped her feel safe sharing challenges and seeking advice.

As Eva prepares to leave for college, both reflect on how their relationship will evolve. They promise to keep in touch through quick texts, TikToks, and special traditions like convention weekends, showing that even as life changes, strong roots make lasting bonds.

In their closing advice, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Drew Bennett, and Eva Bennett urge other parents to “meet your kids where they’re at.” Even if you don’t fully understand their passions, dive in, listen, and show that you care.

If you’re a dad (or a parent) hoping to nurture a close, meaningful relationship with your daughter (or child), this episode is packed with authentic stories, practical wisdom, and the reassurance that showing up – whatever form it takes – truly matters.

Listen to this powerful episode of “Dad and Daughter Connection” and discover how small moments can forge lifelong connections. Subscribe today and join the journey toward building stronger family bonds!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect and work with each other, to be able to work, go on a journey together. Because all of us as fathers are on a journey as we’re trying to build that relationship with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]:
And that’s why this show exists every week. I love being able to have you here to listen, to, learn, to be able to show up. Because by showing up, not only are you doing this for yourself, but you’re doing it for the relationship between you and your daughter. And that’s why every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences, and I always love it when I have the opportunity to be able to have a father and a daughter on the show, because I know it. It doesn’t always happen, but today I do. And today I’m introducing to you Drew Bennett and his daughter Eva. And I’ve known Eva since she was very young, virtually. I’ve known Drew for many years as well, and Drew’s been a guest on other podcasts that I’ve had, but we’ve never had Drew and Eva on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:49]:
And I’m really excited to be able to have them both on to talk about the journey that they’ve been on, and I’m looking forward to introducing them to you. Drew, Eva, thanks so much for being here today.

Drew Bennett [00:01:58]:
Oh, thanks for having us.

Eva Bennett [00:01:59]:
Thank you for having me.

Drew Bennett [00:02:00]:
It’s my pleasure. I love being able to have dads and daughters on, and I guess I’m going to be asking both of you some questions because I want to get a better sense of your relationship. And I’m going to start with you, Eva. What’s one thing that your dad did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Eva Bennett [00:02:20]:
I think that’s something that, honestly, my dad has always been really, really good at is, like, making sure that I feel seen and heard, and especially in terms of, like, what I’m interested in at the time, because I definitely got a nerdy streak from my dad. So when I was growing up, he had all of these things like Transformers and Marvel and stuff that he was really into, and he would share with me on, like, a child appropriate level. And then when I got older and started to have my own interests and stuff, he was always really good about making sure that I had space to talk about that and to talk about what I care about and feel like I was able to share that stuff.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:58]:
I guess I want to flip that a little bit, because, you know, you just heard Eva talk about that you supported her passion in the things that were most important to her. How did you support Eva in pursuing her passions and her dreams?

Drew Bennett [00:03:12]:
Well, like, Eva was talking about some of the shows and things that she likes, and really, it was just like, giving her the space to explore certain things that, you know, I did certainly try to influence some of the loves of different nerdy genres, specifically Transformers. I am a huge fan of that and have a huge collection. You know, one of the things, it’s like, I really want to share my collection of toys with the kids and. And they really didn’t care too much about the toys. But early on, we watched some of the shows together, and Eva found characters that spoke to her, and we would talk about the characters and what those characters like, and any chance I got to expose Eva to different characters that would. Would speak that I thought would speak to her, I would. So I found Avatar the Last Airbender. And I was like, all right, with both kids, we’re gonna.

Drew Bennett [00:04:08]:
We’re gonna sit down and watch this, because this is a fantastic show. And we watched one episode, and they’re like, eh, it was good. And then I don’t know when it was, like, months later, Eva finds it on Netflix and watches all the seasons. I was like, what? I like, there was things like, I want to spend this time. I want to have these things that we can talk about. So there are a lot of different. I think a lot of it started with pop culture stuff that we could connect with. And so every year, I would bring Eva to Free Comic Book Day, which I collect comics.

Drew Bennett [00:04:39]:
We love comics. And when Eva was real little, I’d be at Free Comic Book Day with a little Power Ranger Princess with me. And then Eve would start to find her own way of expressing in costumes, which is something that has grown into something that’s even more of a passion for Eva is. Is costuming, which I’m sure we’ll talk about later, especially with college and stuff. But those things kind of came about from the influences of different genres of entertainment that we connected with together. I always wanted to, like, when a new show would come out. Way back when, when I was doing stuff with. With Netflix, they had shows like she Ra Came out and Kipo and Voltron.

Drew Bennett [00:05:27]:
And so we would watch these things together, and there would always be different characters that we could discuss a connection with that, you know, maybe Eva had a connection to a specific character, and I had different connections to different characters, but we could always find those sort of things to talk about together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:45]:
Now, speaking of costuming, I know that one of the things that you’ve bonded on over the years is cosplay, and some of that came down to the costumes that Eva, that you created and that you got your dad involved with as well. Why don’t you both talk a little bit about that and those connections that you built through that?

Eva Bennett [00:06:03]:
Yeah, so I’ve always kind of been interested in dressing up as a kid. I remember we used to have. This was like a knight’s cape, so the back had fabric that looked like chainmail, and it was all silver at the top. And there’s a photo of me when I was little in, like, a purple T shirt and leggings and that cape and, like, Thor’s helmet with my foam sword that I had as a kid, and I still have it. So I’ve always been interested in dressing up and mashing together whatever pieces I could find in the costume bin with kind of no rhyme or reason to it. And as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten into some sewing and a lot of fiber arts and a good way for me to put that to use and kind of have, like, a clear goal in mind when I make stuff is to make costumes. So I’ve gone into making a lot of costumes, and dad took us to a convention, I think, in, like, 2019. And I wasn’t sewing at the time, but I put together costumes for all of the days that we were there.

Eva Bennett [00:07:03]:
And then Covid happened. And then a couple years after, I think in maybe 2022, we ended up going back to that same convention. And by then, I had picked up with making and putting together costumes again. And then I think two years ago now, I talked dad into doing a, like, a duo costume with me. And it was a father daughter costume, actually. He went as Peter B. Parker from the Spider Verse movies and I did like a teenage Mayday design. So we did that together and that was really fun.

Eva Bennett [00:07:36]:
And I’m still in the planning phase of this right now, but I’m working on another father daughter costume for us right now, which is Eowyn and King Theoden from the Lord of the Rings. So not exactly father daughter, but close enough. And my dad was awesome enough to let me do that, and he’s going to let me put him in a big crazy costume that I make.

Drew Bennett [00:07:56]:
It’s funny because, like, the costumes that I’ve had, I go as Bobby Singer from Supernatural, which all I have to do is slap a hat on my head and I’ve got the grumpy old man look and the beard and I’ve got this, you know, dirty ball cap that I can be Bobby Singer. And I’ve done that the past two years with Comic Con. We go to it’s Granite State Comic Con in New Hampshire. And that’s become the thing that Eva and I do together. We went as a whole family. I think it was 2018, where the kids kind of participated in the kids costuming side. And then Eva and I went a few times where Eva was in costume and I was the support system of holding all her stuff.

Eva Bennett [00:08:39]:
And you’re really the best for doing that.

Drew Bennett [00:08:42]:
So I do that. But then, oh, you know what? I could do this character. And that was kind of been a bit of a hit because people love Supernatural and I do look like Bobby Singer when I put the costume on. But when we went as Peter B. Parker and Mayday Parker, that was a lot of fun because again, you know, all I had to do is put on schlubby clothes. I did a mixture of the two movies into and across the spider verse. And so where the first one he had the sweatpants and the two different shoes, and then the next one he had the pink robe. So I kind of mixed those two together walking around as Peter B.

Drew Bennett [00:09:18]:
Park with like a. With a Spider man shirt. Eva had a really cool costume that went along with it. And so, yeah, so when Eva’s done working on these ones from Lord of the Rings, which is another genre that when Eva gets into something, she gets fully into it. How many times you’ve watched the special editions of Lord of the Rings? More than I have ever had. Three times at this point.

Eva Bennett [00:09:41]:
And the Hobbit since the beginning of the year, which is when I watched it for the first time. The beginning of the year, we’re only on round two.

Drew Bennett[00:09:48]:
We’re in April, like, I’ve had these movies. I’ve been waiting to watch them on a big screen, and then we got the big screen, and I never watched them, and then I’m like, oh, wait for the kids to watch them. Then I was at Eva’s suggestion to watch Lord of the Rings, so we watched Lord of the Rings and since has watched Lord of the Rings and then gotten so far into it, so. And it’s awesome to watch the progress that Eva’s made, not only within cosplay community and in conventions, but then she’s also turned that love of costuming into a position at school. So been the costume lead for the school’s theater program for the past two years, and. And that’s going to be a focus towards college. So it’s really interesting how the progress has been made. And I am always just in awe that Eva will come downstairs and say, hey, mom, can I borrow crochet needle? And, like, two hours later, she’ll come down with, like, this whole thing that you made, like, oh, yeah, I taught myself on YouTube, and, like, now I can crochet.

Drew Bennett [00:10:50]:
And. And then not just. Just get into it more and more and more to perfect those skills. There’s so many, like, skills that Eva has just developed on her own that it’s just, like, fascinating to me how. How amazing she can do them. I’m like, I. I can’t do any

Eva Bennett [00:11:08]:
of that at all.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:11]:
So. You know, Drew, one of the things that I’m hearing from you is, I mean, you really have tried to guide Eva over her lifetime in many different ways. She may have taken your advice and may not have. We know that as fathers. But I. One of the things that comes to mind that I wanted to ask you was, as Eva has grown up, how did you balance guiding Eva while also giving her the ability and the independence to become the person that she is becoming?

Drew Bennett [00:11:41]:
I think never really had to say, you have to do things this way, or, like, it’s always just been the freedom to explore what Eve’s wanted to do. I feel that we kind of give the leeway of just like, hey, you want to try this? Try this. You want. The only times I’ve ever, ever pushed on anything was, you got to watch this. Check this out. But I know that if you push Eva, she digs in her heels and, like, no, not going to do it. But then occasionally she’ll go find something like that on her own, and it’s like, oh, I discovered that I’ve been trying to get you to show, like, Like, I’ve been wanting to watch this or do this. Okay.

Drew Bennett [00:12:17]:
I know it’s like, it’s going to be in her own time, and if it’s something that speaks to her, it’s going to be full in 100%. So it’s really just been discovering what those things are. And then I always try to. If there’s something that Eve is into, I’d like to, like, read it or watch it. Some things. There are some things that I just. I never really got into that didn’t speak to me, but it spoke to you. And I understand how that was, how much you enjoyed that.

Drew Bennett [00:12:43]:
There was a lot of, like, Minecraft smp.

Eva Bennett [00:12:46]:
Yes. All the Minecraft stuff that I’ve enjoyed.

Drew Bennett [00:12:49]:
Yeah. So, like, what. These kind of came about during the pandemic where people made these videos. It was just something that Eva liked, and it kind of influenced the different cosplays that she created early on. And Eva would try to explain the storylines and, like, oh, that’s. That’s really, really, really cool. It’s not something that I would be into, but I can appreciate it. And I would try to say, oh, check out this.

Drew Bennett [00:13:17]:
Or it would always just kind of give her the freedom to just explore certain things that were of interest and then try to find what was mutually of of interest to the two of us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:28]:
And, Eva, how has the relationship with your dad influenced the way you navigate life, relationships, or challenges today?

Eva Bennett [00:13:39]:
I think dad has talked about giving me a lot of freedom to explore what I’m interested in, look at what I’m interested in, and I think that’s been really important in how in my life, like, I’ve never felt like I was gonna get laughed at, or I never thought that my parents were gonna think it was weird that I was into this thing or, like, so having that kind of relationship definitely made it easier for when I was having a problem or if I wasn’t happy about something, I felt like I could go talk to my parents. Like, I didn’t feel like I had to hide anything, really, because they’ve always given me the space to do what I want to do and have the mutual understanding of, we are giving you this freedom because we trust you, and that’s helped build trust in return.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:21]:
It definitely makes sense. And, Drew, what’s one way that you consistently are showing Eva that she can always count on you?

Drew Bennett [00:14:30]:
I try to be at anything that I can be to support. So if there are shows, if there’s something I know Eva likes, try to get tickets to it or go to different things, but just, I mean, I’m always around. One of the things is I have a weird work schedule. So I think after the first. First year that Eva was born, I was still traveling and I hated it because I never was around. So I switched my whole way of working to work overnights on weekends so that I would be home all week. So we don’t do a lot of weekend stuff, but during the week, I’m always there. We try to have, you know, as a whole family, we try to sit down and have dinner every night, and we all talk about, you know, what went on during the day.

Drew Bennett [00:15:14]:
Might be the same repetitive questions, but we do, you know, get into talking and we know what. What everyone’s into and what they’re doing and how the school days went. And I always found that that was important to be there and home in that way for those meals and, yeah, I think just being around, I guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Eva, can you share a favorite memory with me that you and your dad shared that made you feel really connected with him?

Eva Bennett [00:15:40]:
I mean, going back to what we’ve been talking about before, but, like, the conventions that we do, it’s like a two hour drive to get there. So I. We get up early, and I’m up at 8 already getting bags packed, getting hair done, makeup done. I’m doing all this stuff. And then we get in the car and I’m like, so hyped up. And then we’re in the car for two hours. And you would think that it would get awkward, but it’s really nice because then dad and I get to chat and he gets to tell me about the book series that he was reading. What was the.

Drew Bennett [00:16:09]:
Yeah, it was a Silvers. Yeah. Book series by a guy named Shane Silvers who wrote about this character named Nate Temple. And it was. This whole guy wrote like 34 books starting in like 2015 or something like that.

Eva Bennett [00:16:22]:
So it’s like a crazy expansive universe. There’s a ton of books, and you’ve read them in like, every order that you can because there’s like multiple series and they overlap in different places. And I’ve tried so hard to follow them. I’m so sorry to tell you this, but I don’t know what happened in that book series. There was so much happening.

Drew Bennett [00:16:40]:
Well, it’s funny because it’s the same thing when you try to tell me about the SMPs, and I’m like, okay, so this one is this, and there’s that, and, oh, okay. But I can recognize Eva’s passion for and love for this thing, whereas she can recognize it in me for what I love and why I love it, but is not gonna remember all the details about it and that I don’t think it really matters what the details of those are. It’s how she feels, talking about it and how it makes her feel and how it’s influenced the friendship she’s made. And we go to a convention, and she is cosplaying this character, Technoblade. The first time we went to the convention, first time we did it was not at Granite State. It was at WickedCon. But we’re walking around and there’s these people. They’re like, hey, Technoblade and Eva less lit up.

Drew Bennett [00:17:29]:
And I still didn’t quite understand the whole Technoblade thing and how important it was, but I know how it made Eva feel, and I saw how it made Eva feel, and that was what was the most important.

Eva Bennett [00:17:40]:
But I really love our drives to conventions because they’re two hours, so we both get a lot of time to talk, and we also get a lot of time to, like, just sit in the quiet if we want to, especially on the way home. We kind of. By the end of the weekend, we’re kind of done. We don’t really want to be around people anymore, so we, you know, sit and we don’t talk to each other for two hours. And that’s great that we’re able to do that and not, like, feel awkward. And we’re not, like, you know, fighting by the end of the weekend. Because as much fun as conventions are, they can also be really stressful because you’re in a place with a lot of people and you’re dressed up and you’re probably not super comfortable in what you’re wearing, but you’re wearing it because you love it. And.

Eva Bennett [00:18:16]:
And, like, you’re hot and gross, and there’s people everywhere, and you’re kind of done. But, like, we have such a good relationship that we can get to the end of those two days and be on the drive home. And the drive home feels like this massive, huge, like, endeavor. And we’re sitting in the car and we’re together, and we’re not talking to each other, but we’re sitting there and we’re. It’s. It’s nice to be able to sit in the quiet with somebody and not feel like you have to fill the space. Like, you can if you want to, but you don’t have to, and that’s going to be okay, too. So all of that to say, I think one of my favorite memories is just doing that convention with you, like, drive up, drive back included.

Eva Bennett [00:18:56]:
Even if the drive back doesn’t seem as fun in the moment.

Drew Bennett [00:19:00]:
Well, it’s funny. I’ve noticed that at the end of a school day, if you had a particularly tough school day, I pick Eva up from school most of the time that I might ask a question or two at the beginning of the drive, but then the rest of it is in quiet because I know you need time to just process the day and relax without so many questions. And I’m very much the same way. It’s like I’m home by myself all day, and then I don’t hear a lot of things. I don’t talk a lot throughout the day. And sometimes I do want to talk a little bit, but sometimes I’m just like, all right, there’s too much activity coming at me. And I know that you kind of do the same thing or feel the same way sometimes with that. And I try to be like, okay, we could just be comfortable in the quiet.

Drew Bennett [00:19:44]:
And we know it’s not that anybody’s feeling any feelings of, like, resentment or anything. It’s just that we know we need some quiet time. That’s all.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:52]:
You know, I can tell this bond that you have is a very strong one. We touched on it just a second ago. But, Eva, you’ve got some big changes coming, right? You’re heading to college, going to be taking that passion for costuming on to your dream school. And I guess I want to talk about that a little bit, because your relationship’s going to change a bit, and you’re not going to have that person to talk to all the time. Right? Neither of you will. So talk to me about either the conversations you’ve already had or how that makes you feel in regards to this change that’s coming.

Eva Bennett [00:20:25]:
I mean, it’s definitely going to be a big change, but I’m not going to be too far from home. So I can. If I’m really missing being at home and missing being near mom and dad, I can come home. I’m not allowed home within the first two months, but according to Mom.

Drew Bennett [00:20:40]:
Okay, I was going to say I didn’t. I didn’t say that.

Eva Bennett [00:20:42]:
According to Mom, I’m not allowed back in the first few months, but after that, if I. If I feel like I need to come home and I need to be with you guys, I can do that, and that’s okay. And I am also. I know that if I need you guys When I’m not able to be back home, I can call you guys for whatever, and I might need a little bit of a push reminder to give you guys updates on what I’m doing. And that’s just because I really am terrible at talking to other people and keeping them updated on stuff. So that might be a little bit of a struggle. Just because I have a bad memory when it comes to, like, you know, sharing my projects and giving update pictures. Because I just go and I do stuff and I don’t.

Eva Bennett [00:21:22]:
I’m normally not sharing it with anybody, so I kind of. I forget that there are other people who, like, want to see that. So I think that’s going to be a little bit difficult. But I know that, like, if I need something or if I just want to talk to you guys, I can call, I can text. I think it’ll be fine. I will miss you guys, though. I’ll miss being, like, in the same house.

Drew Bennett [00:21:40]:
Yeah, it’s definitely something that is not going to hit me until it hits me and thinking about it. We’ve already made our plans for September to go to the convention again, so we have that to look forward to. I’ll come up to school, pick Eva up for the weekend, and we’ll go to the. To the convention. We’ve got that. But, like, other ways, too, that we kind of communicate in our own little ways is that we’ll, like, send each other different tiktoks of things that we love. So, like, there’s a guy who does, like, what is it, the mandolin or the liar who will takes, like, 80s songs or other songs and does, like, medieval covers. Yeah, medieval covers of, like, 80s hair bands and stuff like that.

Drew Bennett [00:22:22]:
Because since you drive to school with me, you’re going to get the 80s hair band playlist and also metal and stuff like that. It was just funny because when Eva and I were in Krav Maga, when we were taking that, our sensei would always play these different songs that are always on our playlist. He’d quiz the teens and be like, who. Who sings this? So. And Eva would always know it because it was in the car, because this is the stuff that I listened to, which is fun. But then we find something like that we know that particularly speaks to our interests. We’ll send a quick little TikTok that we might have found back and forth and that, you know, to me it’s just another way of saying, like, I see you and I see what you love. And this made me think of you.

Drew Bennett [00:23:03]:
That’s How I send those things along in, you know, just like, another way. So if we don’t talk all the time, okay. I want to see everything that’s going on. But I know Evie’s got to have this room to grow and make these new connections and these new friendships. But I know that there’s always, like, space for her mom and dad. But we’re not going to be overbearing in that way. We’re going to miss her, certainly. But to wanting to be at every point of thing, we want to be there for the big stuff, and I mean, also for the little stuff, to be supportive, but we don’t have to be there every minute holding hands kind of thing.

Drew Bennett [00:23:38]:
So I think what I’ve seen Eva in the past few years, specifically growing up and becoming more independent with stuff, has been amazing. So Eva started her first job last year where she does a teaching assistant for a summer science school. And seeing Eva meet a whole group of kids that became great friends, I was like, I’m not worried about Eva making friends in college because I think no matter where Eva goes, gonna find her people. And I think that’s great. It’s very. They find deep friendships, so that’s a good thing I see happening. And so, yes, I’m going to miss Eva big time, and I don’t want to know what’s going on. And I think on our end, we have to maybe prompt.

Drew Bennett [00:24:23]:
Hey, what are you working on this week? Or, you know, things like that, but not too much, you know, I mean, I don’t want to be like, constantly, hey, give me an update, give me an update. But once in a while, what’s going on? Or once in a while, I was thinking of this. Are you into this? Have you heard about this? That sort of thing. Just finding the ways that we could continue to connect across being away.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:43]:
Now, I always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection. 6 and usually it’s just a dad on. But now that I have both of you, I’m going to ask you both the questions. So, Eva, what’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Eva Bennett [00:24:55]:
Like, the first word that came to mind was silly. Because I feel like we like. Of course we’re able to have really important talks and we’re able to talk about stuff like that, but we’re also able to be silly and talk about stuff that doesn’t feel as important but kind of it still is. That was the first word that came to mind.

Drew Bennett [00:25:14]:
I can see that too, because I know that, like, when you were little, we’d play certain music, and I do silly dances, and you’re only the person who sees the silly dances. And I can be silly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:27]:
And what word would you say, Drew?

Drew Bennett [00:25:30]:
I would say independent. That Eve has always been independent, fights for what she believes in, and is just very, very strong in that. In the. In the independence. So what. You asked what it describes our relationship, didn’t you?

Eva Bennett [00:25:47]:
Yep.

Drew Bennett [00:25:47]:
Not what describes Eva. Is that a question for later? I’m sorry, Did I just totally mess that up? That is how I think of Eva. But, like, our relationship, I want to say, like, the word is fandom, that we appreciate the fandoms that we enjoy, and we can appreciate each other’s. So I think that’s helped us bond is the different things that we love together and separately and how we can talk about them together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:12]:
And, Eva, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Eva Bennett [00:26:17]:
I feel like just the message of be yourself and you’ll find your people, because that’s something I’ve always been very worried about, and that’s something that you seem to have no worries about for me on my behalf. So I think that’s. That’s a big piece of advice that I have gotten a lot, if not. If I haven’t internalized it entirely yet. But it’s something that I have gotten and has always been a very important message to me from my dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:40]:
What about for you, Drew? What’s the best piece of dad advice you ever received?

Drew Bennett [00:26:44]:
I think from my dad, I used to work with him cleaning up, and he was a contractor, and on the job sites, I would do a lot of the cleaning. And that has helped me in different jobs over the years. It’s like, if you’ve got time to lean, you’ve got time to clean. I know that’s mostly in the restaurant business, which I kind of picked up a second job to do that. And that has always just been my. There’s always something that you can do to help, to be. To be useful, and that’s always something that he may have. Might never have said, if you got time to lean, you got time to clean.

Drew Bennett [00:27:13]:
But that’s like how I’ve internalized that, is that if you’re there, you’re there to help, to work, and to do what you can. And that’s what I’ve taken with anything that I’ve ever done is like, you know, you’re there. You do what you can while you’re there sort of thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:27]:
Now, this is a question that we’ve been talking a lot about. And it may be the same answer, but you can have a different answer. So I’m just going to say that. So, Eva, what’s one activity you and your dad love doing together?

Eva Bennett [00:27:38]:
I mean, saying going to a convention feels like cheating, because that’s what we’ve talked about this whole time. But that’s definitely my favorite thing. That’s our thing that we do, just the two of us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:48]:
Drew, do you want to give a different answer?

Drew Bennett [00:27:49]:
I mean, that is definitely something that I love doing, but I also just like nerding out over something that we both enjoy. So talking about it in such depth, because one of the things Eva will do is that after reading something, like a lot of books. So we both really loved the Percy Jackson series. And it was funny because that was the series that I was like, you gotta read this. I know you’re gonna love it. And he’s like, nah, now I like this other thing. No, no, no, no. And then Eva’s cousins was reading it, and they decided to swap and say, okay, you read this, I’ll read this.

Drew Bennett [00:28:24]:
And then Percy Jackson became the more interesting thing than the other. Oh, no. Oh, okay.

Eva Bennett [00:28:30]:
Sorry. I’m gonna cut in for a second. When we swapped, I still didn’t like it until you got tickets to see the musical.

Drew Bennett [00:28:35]:
That’s right.

Eva Bennett [00:28:36]:
You made me come and see the musical, and that’s when I started to love it, and I loved it so much that I got a T shirt when I was there, and that’s still in my closet somewhere.

Drew Bennett [00:28:44]:
Yeah.

Eva Bennett [00:28:44]:
So sorry. I just had to get the timeline right. Right.

Drew Bennett [00:28:46]:
And then there. So. And then there. There’s. And we can always find something to talk about there in that. So with the different characters and stuff like that. So bonding over, like, our love of reading. Both big readers.

Drew Bennett [00:28:58]:
Right now, I’m more audio because I just don’t have the time, and I love audiobooks so much. I may also. I will read a book, but I just love so many of the different ways that people do the narration of audiobooks. It’s amazing. So I love that. But it’s also absorbing what’s going on in the books and being able to talk about the books. And we have this really beautiful bookstore in our area called Unlikely Story that’s actually owned by the author of Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Jeff Kinney. You haven’t run into him? No, he’s there all the time.

Drew Bennett [00:29:27]:
But I’ve never met him and never run into him.

Drew Bennett [00:29:29]:
But he has such a wonderful bookstore, and that we love going there for books and just bonding over books, I think is something that. And if Eva’s reading something that just really, really into, it might not be the genre that I’m into, but I’ll give it a try. And one of the books she really loves, I read it, and I was like, oh, this is really interesting. So discovering new things together is fairly important too.

Eva Bennett [00:29:52]:
My answer kind of felt like I was cheating. The father daughter dance for school. We’ve always done that together. That’s something that we really enjoy doing together, and that kind of feels like a cliche. Cause, like, every. Pretty much every dad and daughter does that, because that’s, like, the thing specifically for them.

Drew Bennett [00:30:08]:
But, yeah, I mean, not every school has it, but it has been something that has been important part of our lives, because we even have our little things that we do at the father daughter dance. Like, we take the selfie with the dessert, or we’ll dress alike with. To match.

Drew Bennett [00:30:24]:
Done that the past, you know, years. And that’s something that I really, really love. Yeah.

Drew Bennett [00:30:28]:
And every time we go to get the picture, people are like, wow, how you guys? Because it’s just, like, I want to support in one way that shows that we’re there together and having a good time. And it’s not just, all right, all the girls go off and dance together, and all the dads sit at the table. There’s some of that. I don’t dance so much, but I’ll dance enough. But. But we do. That has been a good one. And this.

Drew Bennett [00:30:49]:
This was our last one this year, so that was kind of tough.

Eva Bennett [00:30:52]:
It was a good one.

Drew Bennett [00:30:53]:
It was a good one. It was a good one. Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:56]:
Now, Drew, the next two questions are for you.

Drew Bennett [00:30:58]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:59]:
If you could give Eva one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Drew Bennett [00:31:03]:
Pursue happiness. What it is that makes you happy. It might be hard, but that is going to be the thing that’s going to be the most important as you go through life. So do that thing that makes you happy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:14]:
And what’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Drew Bennett [00:31:18]:
I know early on, I did not have very much patience, especially with more Eva’s brother. But I’ve developed much more of that in a way that, like, there’s so much that doesn’t matter as far as, like, the things that I got stressed out about that just didn’t matter. But the things that do matter are the things that stick. So I try to give the kids Just the freedom to do that which they want to do, because I know that they’re smart kids. They’re. They’re good and kind kids. That is probably one of the most important things, is that they’re good and kind. They think about other people and just not a lot of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:54]:
So, Eva, in closing today, and Drew, you’ll have a chance at this, too. What advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Eva Bennett [00:32:04]:
Try to connect with them about things that they love, like meet them where they’re at. And I know dad has talked about that a lot, but I think that that’s a really important part of why we have such good relationship, because he’s talked about trying and reading books and stuff that I love, because there was a book that I like four times last that I loved so much, and you read it. You borrowed my copy, and you read it, and you didn’t love it. It wasn’t really your thing. You didn’t entirely get it, but you knew that I loved it, so you still gave it that try. And I think it’s things like that that are why we are able to have such a good relationship. Try and meet your kids where they’re at. Even if you don’t totally get it, give it a shot, because it might give you an opportunity or, like, a window into understanding them better.

Drew Bennett [00:32:45]:
You definitely meet them where they are and you find something that the two of you can enj. It might be something that you didn’t know or you were adverse to doing. Like, maybe your daughter loves cooking, so you experiment with cooking together. Or they love photography or they love I’m not a sports guy. Maybe they love sports, but, like, wherever they’re into, be into it enough that you can talk about it and show that you’re making an effort into what they like. That’s a good way to just start the ball rolling is be there where your child is at.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:25]:
Well, Drew, Eva, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. And, Eva, I wish you the best as you go forward into the next step of your journey into college and beyond. And, Drew, thank you for sharing this special bond that you have together, and I wish you both the best.

Eva & Drew Bennett [00:33:44]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:44]:
Thank you. That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad, dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming, passing? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen? Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world you now Be the best dad you can

Musical Performer [00:35:47]:
be

Musical Performer [00:35:50]:
Be the best dad you can.

Navigating Period Conversations: A Dad’s Guide with Al Zonsius

April 14, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

In the hustle and bustle of modern life, finding the time and approach to foster strong, meaningful relationships with our children can be challenging. This is especially true when it comes to the deep and nuanced bond between fathers and daughters. In a heartwarming discussion from a recent episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis and guest Al Zonsius of The Period Academy explore themes that resonate beyond the confines of typical parenting advice, offering powerful insights into building lasting connections.

Presence Over Perfection

One of the standout themes is the importance of being present over being perfect. Al Zonsius shares personal stories about her relationship with her father, highlighting the rollercoaster ride filled with both highs and lows. She emphasizes that the consistent act of showing up and being there, even amidst imperfections and disagreements, builds a foundation of trust and support. This theme urges listeners to focus less on being flawless and more on being there, listening, and engaging in the little everyday moments that matter most.

Educating for Empowerment

Another vital theme revolves around education and empowerment. With Al’s background as a student nurse midwife and co-founder of the Period Academy, the conversation underscores the importance of equipping daughters with knowledge about their bodies. Fathers are encouraged to step into this dialogue confidently, fostering an environment where their daughters feel empowered, informed, and unashamed about natural processes like menstruation. This educational empowerment extends beyond physical health, imparting self-esteem and confidence that carry into other areas of a young woman’s life.

Bridging Emotional Gaps

Fathers often grapple with understanding the emotional landscapes their daughters navigate, especially during puberty. The podcast discusses strategies for bridging these gaps, such as offering support, practicing empathy, and creating spaces where daughters feel comfortable discussing their feelings. Acknowledging and validating emotions builds a framework for open communication, making daughters feel heard and understood. In turn, this emotional availability strengthens the father-daughter bond.

As you reflect on these themes, consider tuning into the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast for further insights and practical advice. Listening to real stories and expert opinions can inspire and equip you to enhance your relationship with your daughter. Because at the end of the day, being an engaged dad isn’t about knowing all the answers—it’s about being there, learning together, and growing stronger, one conversation at a time. So, why not take a moment, listen in, and start building those bridges today?

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and daughter connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m doctor Christopher Lewis, and the dad and daughter connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection. I’m really excited to have you back again this week to really delve deeper into that relationship that people have between dads and daughters to be able to build those strong connections that will help to create that, not only communication, but that relationship that we all want to have with our daughters. And every week, I love being able to have you here, to talk to you, to help you, to give you some resources to draw upon, to help you to become the dad that you want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:25]:
Because it is so important to be able to have resources at your fingertips because the bond that you are creating, the connections that you’re creating with your daughter are so important. And anything that you will read, any person that you will talk to will tell you how important that relationship is. And it may not always be easy, but it is so important to put in the time, the effort, and be willing to put yourself out there to build that strong relationship. And every week, I love being able to have different guests to help you along that journey. And today, we got another great guest with us. Al Zanzias is with us today. And Al is a student nurse midwife, but also she is the cofounder of the Period Academy. And one of the most awkward conversations sometimes that dads are most concerned about concerned about having is talking to their daughters about their period, talking, going into that stage of their life when their bodies are changing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
And as a dad, you’ve not gone through that and you don’t always know what to say or how to support your daughter. And this academy that Al has co founded is one resource that’s out there that can really help you to be able to start not only understanding it for yourself, but to also be able to be a good resource for your own daughter. And I’m really excited to be able to talk to her about her own experience as a daughter, but also to talk about the Period Academy. Alf, thanks so much for being here today.

Al Zonsius [00:02:54]:
Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:55]:
You know, I’m really excited to have you here. And I always start these conversations really delving a little bit deeper into the relationship that you had with your own father. And we were talking beforehand and I said, Sometimes those relationships can be positive, negative, or somewhere in between. But I always love having these conversations because I think that not only do I learn something, but others will learn things about ways in which we can build those stronger relationships. So, I guess, thinking about the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one thing that your father did that made you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Al Zonsius [00:03:35]:
That is a great question. So, it’s funny you say that some are positive, some are negative. And my dad and I had a very roller coaster ride of a relationship. At times, it was really wonderful, and we were really bonded. And at times, it was pretty negative, and we were very disconnected. But I will say the times that I remember so fondly as a child or as a young teenage girl were times where my dad would go above and beyond to be present with me. He actually traveled quite a bit for his job and was on the road a lot in and out of town. And I happened to be a big athlete when I was young, and there would be days that he would fly in just to come see me play basketball.

Al Zonsius [00:04:17]:
He would fly in just to come see me play volleyball, and I just knew how much effort that took. And not that it has to be every single day, every single game, every single moment going above and beyond, but I just remember the, like, just full body joy I would feel watching him show up in the gymnasium for a game knowing that he was, you know, across the country just, you know, that morning before. And so I remember those moments and, you know, having that up and down relationship with him has really kind of encouraged me to encourage my partner to kind of go above and beyond in those moments when he has the opportunity to do so because that was so impactful for for me as a child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:58]:
You know, I I wanna unpack. You said that you had a roller coaster of a relationship, and and that can be challenging, of course. I mean, but I guess as you think back to that and where you are today as a person, how has that relationship and the experience that you had, and you already talked about talking to your own partner and how they can support you, but how did that relationship with your father influence the way in which you navigate life relationships and challenges today?

Al Zonsius [00:05:27]:
As an adult woman now, I would say that something that I that will always be with me as as the daughter of my dad is that he was always so strong in his stance on morals and beliefs. He wasn’t that he was closed minded. He was always open to learning. He was always trying to learn something new. But it makes me very, very strong in my beliefs and how I wanna advocate, whether or not it’s just in my daily life as a mom of my daughters or as my role as a clinician in the hospital. I mean, I’ll really put up a fight for every single patient I encounter, and that I know deep into me in my soul is because of him, because he was that way. And that’s probably why we had those negative moments in our roller coaster ride together because we both were heavy handed in that way. We both had, like, big, big opinions and big, big feelings, and we would stand our ground.

Al Zonsius [00:06:24]:
And so I think we battled a lot because of that, for sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:27]:
And you’re not the only daughter that goes head to head with their dads, and there are definite points in time in a person’s upbringing where that happens, but also sometimes in life, it just happens in regards to the relationship. Talk to me about what did you have to do to try to bridge that gap in the moment? And are there things that you might say to other dads that are having those tumultuous times that might help them to bridge the gap with their own daughters?

Al Zonsius [00:06:58]:
Yeah. I think gosh. I think that what and by the way, my dad actually passed two years ago, and so I keep talking about him in the past tense. But he would you know, we would have years, months go by where we wouldn’t speak because we had a little argument. We disagreed about something, and that argument turned into, I’m not gonna re reach out to him first, and then he would think the same thing. I’m not gonna reach out to her first. And I guess for me now as a an adult woman, I would say that because he was the parent, he should have always been the one to reach back out. In my mind, I was most of the time being stubborn, teenage, early adult years, making, you know, crazy decisions in life, learning life lessons as we go.

Al Zonsius [00:07:45]:
But I always needed him to reach out and to restart, rekindle the conversation of and just kind of get back into our relationship. And as we grew older as he grew older, him reaching back out became fewer and far between. And I always really had a difficult lot of resentment for sure too. And I just say, like, when I think about the future of dads and, like, what they can do is just always remember that you are the parent, you’re the nurturer, you’re the protector, you’re the safe place. And so don’t stop ever reaching out to your children. Don’t ever stop trying to reconnect with your kiddos, especially if you’re in a kind of a bumpy relationship, especially with a daughter, because it might not be that one day that you send a text message or that she’s gonna respond, but two weeks later, she might really need you to reach out. So just never give up on them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:35]:
I love that, and I think it’s so important that the last point you just said is to never give up on them. And I think that too often when people dig in, and it’s not my fault, it’s not my fault, and they’re not willing to meet in that middle. And I appreciate you saying, you know, you’re the parent. And yeah, that you may not see eye to eye, but you’re still the parent. And you can meet in the middle. You might not always have to agree on things, but you can still unconditionally love your child, and be there for them, even if you don’t agree with everything that they are doing, or the way in which they live, or whatever it may be. So I really appreciate you sharing that because that’s it’s not an easy thing to take in, but it is so important to internalize and to be able to think for yourself, Where am I at right now, and where do I wanna be? And I guess let me ask you this, and if it’s too personal, you don’t have to answer. Your father passed away a few years back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:32]:
At some point, at toward the end of his life, were you able to get to that point of understanding? And if so, what did you have to do to get there?

Al Zonsius [00:09:42]:
We did and we didn’t. I was actually one of the final people with him when he was kind of put to rest. And I feel like in those moments, I could picture us back in the, you know, good old days when I was a little kid, and I was, you know, just obsessed and adored my dad. But leading up to that, we were still in a very kind of rocky, unknown. Communication was pretty minimal, not very deep. And so I wouldn’t ever say that we were perfect when he passed. I did get closure in a lot of different ways just being with him in those last moments and saying a lot of things to him. But I think the way to get to it, which was part of your question, I guess, would be I had to also meet him in the middle even though I feel and felt a certain way about, you know, certain things, how I wanted to manage my family.

Al Zonsius [00:10:34]:
And so, yeah, there was things that I had to be sacrificed in a way to ignore and push beside to have a relationship with him. And so we both had to do that. And I think if we would have had more time, I think we could have gotten back to a really good place, but he passed very suddenly. And so I yeah. I always have a lot of regrets though. And I think that if any dads are listening who have daughters, like, just know that every day is not promised and that you gosh, you don’t wanna leave this earth in a rough situation with your kids. I mean, I think about it all the time, how many more conversations I would have loved to have with him.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:10]:
Well, I appreciate you sharing that and and being willing to to go down that path because it’s not always an easy thing to talk about, but I appreciate you sharing that even though it wasn’t always the most positive experience. Now I talked about the fact that you’re co founder of the period academy. And as I said, talking about a period with your daughter is not only awkward for the dad, but it’s awkward for the daughter too. And a lot of times your daughters may not wanna talk to you about their periods, but it’s still very important as a dad to understand what they’re going through, how it’s impacting their bodies, but also their mindset, their etcetera. And I, as a father of two daughters that are now 17 and 20, You know, I’ve gone through this and definitely something that I wish that I had had the Period Academy at the time when things were first happening. So I guess one of the questions that came up when I heard about this was first and foremost, tell me the origin story and why you decided to go and become a cofounder of this organization, the Period Academy.

Al Zonsius [00:12:20]:
Yeah. Of course. Okay. So, honestly, it really started the company came about for many, many different reasons that just kinda kept telling me to do something, telling me to create some sort of educational platform. For me as a clinician, I work as a nurse now, and you mentioned I’m a student nurse midwife. And so I’m in my kind of final months of residency to be a midwife. But we take care of I take care of kids from very early age when they start to experience puberty all the way up until menopausal time for women. And so I see a big spectrum of different patients.

Al Zonsius [00:12:51]:
And a reoccurring theme in this field I’m in, and I’ve been in this field for almost ten years, is adult women didn’t get educational resources as children. They they are very unaware of basic anatomy. They’re also often unaware of what a period is and what is actually happening to their bodies. And I see it in the clinic, and I see it when they go to have their babies at the hospital. So that was a hospital. So that was a big thing that started to come up for me a lot, is that I was like, oh my gosh. Like, this is not this woman’s fault that she doesn’t have this knowledge. We must have missed something.

Al Zonsius [00:13:23]:
And the other reason is I was 11 when I started my period as a young kid, and I did not know what the heck was happening to my body at the age that a lot of women my age, and I’m in my late thirties, but a lot of my age women and even probably younger, like, it was very taboo. It was a very stigmatized conversation. My parents did not prepare me at all. And it still has a lot of stigma around it, which shocks me, but it does. And it is hard to talk about. And so what I started to notice is because of my experience in the healthcare field doing reproductive health, I also have two daughters and my daughters are four and six. And they are a little early for this talk, but I will tell you, my four and six year old know a heck of a lot about periods because I’ve been exposing them since they were born. You know, they ever since they could crawl after me into the bathroom, they have been exposed.

Al Zonsius [00:14:16]:
They’ve been desensitized almost to it. It’s a very normal thing in our home. And I’ll explain to you some, like, very easy things fathers and dads can start doing at home. But but yeah. So I actually started to have friends reach out to me. Hey. Do you have any tips of how we can get this conversation started with our kids? And I said, well, actually, funny you ask. I do.

Al Zonsius [00:14:34]:
I have so many opinions about it, and here’s what you can get started with. Here’s just a couple of easy ways to just start the conversation and start it as soon as you can. Because what we know is girls can start their periods as early as eight years old. That’s a normal range, eight to 17. It’s a big range, but we’re starting to see girls start their periods earlier and earlier in life due to many different factors. But I just always tell people start sooner than you even think you would ever need to start because before you know it and you won’t even realize it, they’re gonna start to get information from friends at school. So start having those conversations. I started giving tips out and talking to parents about it.

Al Zonsius [00:15:09]:
And then I mentioned it to my partner one day, and my husband and I said, listen. We think we need to create some sort of period educational something, seminar, presentation because nobody is doing this. And why not? And, you know, I started to research what are kids getting in public school systems, and it’s so minimal. And I was just, like, shocked by it, really. And I was also trying to explore who’s doing this, who’s educating our kids so that the parents because, you know, because we have this lack of comprehensive, standardized period education, menstruation education in school systems, it all falls on the dad and it all falls on the mom. The parents are expected to do it all. And that’s a big burden, in my opinion, as a parent myself, to put on parents who maybe don’t have the experience I have. I talk about periods every single day with about every single patient.

Al Zonsius [00:15:57]:
I ask them about their period and we talk about their period. And so for me, it’s very easy. Right? The language, the tools, it’s easy, but that’s not the same for every household. So the Period Academy was born, and my husband really was a cheerleader of it. Created a really wonderful kind of world of illustrations and how we could teach it. And then it just took off from there, and it was such a beautiful thing to see at the very beginning stages. We start we kinda opened up shop last summer, and hearing all of the parents just be so grateful that it’s a great starting point. It gives them the language to use at home.

Al Zonsius [00:16:30]:
And then I’d always have moms leave and parents leave, like, telling me how much they learned. Even though I’m really focused on my teaching is really kid focused. Right? I’m not teaching as if it’s adult people. I’m teaching them as kids where they’re at. You know? And this is, like, age kind of eight, nine, 10, 11 is where my target usually is. So that’s kind of how it all started, and now it’s going really well. And it’s amazing. And I feel like maybe I can make a little dent in some of these kids’ brains and give them a lot of education.

Al Zonsius [00:16:59]:
And my really ultimate goal is for a kid to start her period and not be scared. If just some kids could start and feel empowered and feel ready, like they have the tools and that they know they’re gonna be okay, because it is a very terrifying life, you know, transitional moment for most kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:16]:
Many fathers may feel unprepared or even uncomfortable discussing menstruation with their daughters. What advice do you have for dads who want to be supportive, but aren’t sure how to start the conversation?

Al Zonsius [00:17:30]:
Yeah. No. That’s a really good question, and I’ll start it with this. And this I’ll be interested to hear how this feels as a dad. Right? So I would say one of my number one questions I get from kids and I teach kids in groups of, like, 10 to 15 kids at a time. And the number one question I get is what if my mom’s not home and only my dad is home? So we’ve already built this society, this norm, this world where young girls assume they can only go to their mom. Now this is assuming we have a traditional household. Right? We have a mom and a dad that they’ve grown up with that dynamic.

Al Zonsius [00:18:05]:
So we’ve already spent however many years, eight, nine, ten, eleven years of that child seeing their parents that way. And I would say to that is how can we shift that? Because I know when I talk to dads, I know that they would feel so humbled and grateful if their daughters knew they could go to them if they needed help. And so they start their period, Mom’s not home, maybe mom’s on an out of town trip, and they start their period at school because most kids we know most kids will have their very first period at school. It’s because they spend so many hours during the week at school, or they might be at, like, a camp or, you know, an extracurricular activity. So sorry to go back, but we know that this is already in their brains. So which really every time I get asked this question, it hurts my heart because I know the dads in this world wouldn’t make them feel like they did something wrong. They’d be so supportive, and I know they would. So how can we get this shift to happen in

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
the

Al Zonsius [00:18:59]:
household? And the advice I always give is for dads to not exclude themselves from the conversations. Every adult person and even older sibling in the household should be part of the conversation and should contribute to it. So if we’re maybe starting to introduce anatomical parts to our children, you know, one, we know we always need to use appropriate anatomical terms for body parts. That’s a big part of my the very beginning of my presentation. Use appropriate terminology with your kids. And then also like, make sure that you know what those are for a girl. Know what the difference is between a vulva and a vagina. Help teach your kid that because if you can start that early, early on, you’re gonna always be seen as a safe space for your daughter.

Al Zonsius [00:19:43]:
Your daughter will feel like she doesn’t have to hide her period in the bathroom until get mom gets home the next morning or or whatever it might be. Just be part of the conversation. I think and this is a big expectation, but the moment I had a daughter, I had a very high expectation for my husband to be able to be the default when it comes to those things because I work a lot. When I go to the hospital, I’m there fourteen hours. That’s a long time to be gone. And and if my daughter were to need help, I always have told him, I want them to feel so safe with you that they can come to you and not even think twice about it. Mom’s not home? Okay. I’ll call dad.

Al Zonsius [00:20:19]:
Oh, dad’s in this room. It’s a little closer than that room. Like, I can just go to dad. That’s my expectation for him. And my husband, you know, he also helped me build this company, but he really did put in an effort. And that’s what I think it is. I think dads just have to put in a bit of effort to know basics about period. You should also know basics about anatomical reproductive parts for boys and girls, and you should know the basics about a period, especially just how to manage it.

Al Zonsius [00:20:43]:
Pads, tampons, period underwear. How because that’s what your daughter’s gonna come to you for. Right? She’s gonna have a period at school, and she’s gonna be probably very overwhelmed, and she’s gonna want, you know, know what to do next. The other tip I give to people in their households, not only being a part of this conversation, and this conversation, by the way, is very ongoing. Right? We’re talking about it all the time, is to start to expose your kids in the home to menstruation products and, like, actual in the moment menstruation. And sometimes my kids well, even today and my kids are a little unique, right, because I’m their mom. But, you know, sometimes I’ll be in the bathroom and my six year old will be like, do you want me to go get you a pad? Are you on your period? I make it so it’s such a normal day in the month that sometimes in my period I’m on my period, and sometimes I’m not. I actually and if parents are comfortable with it, and I know that not all parents are, but invite them into your space, especially when they’re really little.

Al Zonsius [00:21:36]:
Right? When they’re really little. Because the more you show them period blood, pads, what you when you wipe and you have very bright red blood, the more you show them that you’re sitting on that toilet and you’re okay, you’re not hurting, you’re okay, it desensitizes it, It normalizes it. It becomes a very normal part of life, and it’s very, you know, and it’s every month for, you know, most adult women. As long as they’re regular, it’s every month. So it’s such a normal part of life. And so just by exposing them, don’t make it a big deal. Yeah. This is just period blood.

Al Zonsius [00:22:08]:
This happens to your mom every, you know, twenty five days. And, you know, it doesn’t bother me. I have pads and I have tampons. This is what I use. You know, my kids love to play with pads and tampons. Have you ever given a three year old a tampon? It’s awesome. They love it. It’s very fun.

Al Zonsius [00:22:20]:
And so exposing them. Having products out in the open, I’m big advocate of this. Having a basket of your pads out in the open so kids can ask questions, especially when they’re really young. Let them ask questions. Dads know how to use a pad, know how to put it in the underwear, know how to take it away, know that they can only wear it up to eight hours, know that they should really wash their hands before and after. Those are things that dads should know, and moms too and parents too. But, yeah, those are kind of like the general and the go to things I say. These are the things that you guys can start doing that’s not really gonna need a lot of effort is just to start to increase exposure in the home to periods.

Al Zonsius [00:22:55]:
And I always joke, and I recently was interviewed. And I always say, like, the big reduction of stigma moment for me is when I go to a bathroom in a public space, I always hold my tampon or my pad outside of my pockets because I just want it to feel like this is a normal, physiological, natural thing that half the world’s bodies do. And we’re so scared of it and scared to talk about it. And I just wanna keep finding ways to make it less scary, less stigmatizing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:23]:
Now you kind of already talked about this, but one of the things that I was thinking about when I looked at your curriculum is that it covers a lot of the topics like period management, self care, puberty. And I guess, how can dads help to normalize periods and ensure that their daughters feel confident rather than embarrassed about this natural process.

Al Zonsius [00:23:45]:
And not only in a way of periods, but I think dads can build confidence in girls, which I think is something that’s really needed in our world today. Right? We need to kinda make young women, young girls more confident, have higher self esteem because we’re seeing it kind of at a big downfall right now. And I think if you can build your kids up from day one, always be their biggest cheerleader, always be their biggest fan. And I personally, and my husband too, like and it’s really easy. It’s just the language you choose to use. So when my kid has, like, a new outfit on, I try not to say you look really cute or look really pretty, but I always tell her, you look super brave, or you look really confident, and you look really kind today. Because those words in their brain are going to go far, far deeper than just this idea of, like, an outfit. Right? So ever since they were babies, it’s like, you’re look you’re being so brave.

Al Zonsius [00:24:37]:
It’s not you look so cute. I mean, my kids are adorable. Don’t get me wrong. They’re I’m obsessed with them. They’re the cutest things on the Earth. But I try to impede their brains with language of how brave they are, how smart they are, how autonomous they are, how important decisions they make are could be life changing for them. And so building those kids up. And then when it gets to time where you start to experience puberty, because we know you’re gonna start to notice puberty for your kids probably before they have a period, we do have an expectation that you’re likely gonna have breast buds.

Al Zonsius [00:25:08]:
You’re gonna likely grow some pubic hair, maybe some underarm hair, have a big growth spurt, and may even start experiencing vaginal discharge right before you have your very first period. I think that would be a great time for dads to really start to empower their kids. Have a moment where you see, like, okay. Maybe maybe you’ve noticed your daughter has some pubic hair or some breast buds, or you noticed when you did laundry that when you helped with laundry one day that there was vaginal discharge in her underwear. This is a great, great time for you to make sure she’s ready when she’s away from the home. It’s also a great time to make sure she’s ready at home. Make sure you have pets. Make sure she knows where they are.

Al Zonsius [00:25:46]:
Make sure they’re teen sized or preteen sized pads and that you can assume she’s gonna use what the other adult female in the house uses because it’s different, you know, tampons and pads. And we do know that I mentioned tampons here and there all the time because kids kinda get forced in a tampon usage, which is another conversation. But most children will use pads for a very long time. So dads can assume if they have an eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 year old that they’re gonna need to use pads first. Okay? So you don’t even need to worry about tampons quite yet, but really focus on having pads available and access to them. Like, where are they? And then also having something in their backpack for them so that they know it’s there. And I would encourage dads to I give kids at my seminars. I give them all a period kit, but it’s not like anything that is hard to do.

Al Zonsius [00:26:31]:
It’s just a little canvas bag, and it’s got pads in it, a moist towelette. And I also put a little note in there, and it’s an encouraging note that says, you got this. You’re gonna be okay, and we are here to support you. This is a big day for you. And so we are here if you need us. And I think if it had put that on a little piece of paper, like, you’re gonna you’re you’re great. You’ve got this. It’s gonna be okay.

Al Zonsius [00:26:54]:
I know it’s overwhelming because we can have prepare and prepare and prepare. But the first time you bleed, it’s a lot. It’s a big you know, and most adult women would probably be able to tell you where they were, maybe even what they were wearing, what the bathroom looks like that they were in, and what they felt in that moment. And and so being an outspoken empowered women, I can kind of assume that I have unique experiences in those ways, but most women are very shut down and fearful about it. So, yeah, if a dad can just give her the tools, make sure she’s got something in her backpack. Even a spare pair of underwear would be ideal. Right? Because you can assume she might either first start her period when she goes to sit to go pee. And we this happens often because your pelvic floor rests at that time, and so period blood can come out.

Al Zonsius [00:27:39]:
It might be noticed on toilet paper when she wipes, or she’s gonna have some in her underwear. And that is very overwhelming for kids. Kids ask me about that a lot too. What if I bleed through my undies? And so I like to say, put a pair of underwear in your backpack as well to always have, always have maybe an extra pair of shorts or something like that as well. And then just remind your kid, you can call me if you need me. I will come bring you clothes. I will come bring you pads. I’m always here.

Al Zonsius [00:28:05]:
Just communicate with them that you are accessible and that you are supportive. And if you don’t have all of the answers, I think that’s fair too. Right? Because I don’t have all the answers either. And I have kind of started to become very knowledgeable about periods for young girls, but but I don’t have all the answers. Sometimes kids will ask me a question and I’ll be like, oh my goodness. I gotta get back to you on that. And I think dad’s being, like, very humble and and transparent. Like, I don’t know the exact answer you need from me right now, but I do know how we can go find it, and we can kind of help you.

Al Zonsius [00:28:34]:
Just be supportive and communicate with your kids and remind them that they can always come to you. Just keep keep reminding them. I’m always here. You can always come to me even And this sorry. I’ll my answers are so long, but this is one more thing I’ll always mention. I like to tell kids when we have these conversations, whether it be puberty conversations, period conversations, sex conversations, that it is very normal to have a feeling in your body and in your mind that is a little strange and uncomfortable. And that’s normal to have this uneasy feeling. And I think if dads just expressed that to their kiddos, like, I know talking about these things with me might make you feel a little weird in your body, but it’s still something important we should do, and I need you to know you’re safe with me.

Al Zonsius [00:29:21]:
And that’s kind of a big deal, making kids feel safe when they use their words and they have big feelings and wanna talk to you. So that’s something I would suggest too is to always tell your kids, you’re gonna feel weird about this, but you’re safe with me. And that’s you know, I feel weird. And he would tell him, I feel weird about it too. You know, it’s a hard conversation to have. Be honest with your kids. You’re human.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:44]:
Now I know that puberty can also bring mood swings, PMS, and other emotional shifts. How can fathers recognize when their daughters need emotional support, and what strategies can they use to help without overstepping?

Al Zonsius [00:30:02]:
Yeah. And I you talk about premenstrual syndrome, PMS, in the presentation, and I talk about it because it becomes a very big part of your life when you start to have a cycle. And for some people, it can be a very debilitating part of your life. And so I talk about what is expected, what’s the most common, and then when is it too much or an issue where we would wanna maybe speak to a clinician. But when it comes to mood disturbances, irritability, a little less patience, even anxiety can increase as your period’s approaching. These are huge, huge, huge feelings that your daughter is probably feeling. And in your mind as an adult parent, you’re probably thinking, oh my gosh. Who is this child? One moment, they’re crying.

Al Zonsius [00:30:38]:
The other moment, they’re happy singing in the car. And so it’s like very it can be very roller coaster ride. I think just reminding yourself that oftentimes mood disturbances and irritability and that kind of anxiety that kids can get right before a period is something that’s really generally out of their control. And that’s because hormones, when they come in, they come in hot. And so and it’s something that’s very difficult to understand, especially when they’re experiencing it for the first time. And they’re really young and they’re, like, preparing to go through these stages. So I would just say, instead of taking this approach of, oh, you’re you must be PMSing. I mean, we’ve all heard it.

Al Zonsius [00:31:14]:
Right? Mom’s PMSing. Go, you know, go clean your room. Or mom’s PMSing. Don’t talk back. Do the dishes. Do your chores. I think instead of if you approached it in like, you know what? It seems like you might be having some bigger feelings these days, and I wanna know if there’s a way I can support you. Because sometimes kids will be able to tell you that, yeah.

Al Zonsius [00:31:33]:
You know, I just don’t wanna talk about it. But they also might say, oh, yeah. I’ve noticed that too, and I don’t really know the way I could use support right now. And then you can give suggestions. I oftentimes try to take my kids’ leads, you know, and it’s not a perfect example, but when my kids are tantruming or we’re in a moment and all parents know these moments, right, where your kid is not thinking logical. They’re tantruming. They’re not logical. They’re having definitely some hormone stuff happening.

Al Zonsius [00:32:01]:
And I always just ask them, do you want me to give you space, or would you like me to sit here with you? And I think sometimes as parents, that’s just needing to sit there and be quiet is a great way to show support and to hold space for your kids. And and even ask them, would it be better if I sat out right side the door and you let me know when you would like me to come in? Do you wanna maybe listen to some music together? Do you wanna go on a walk together? Do you want me to give you more ideas of how we can kind of support you, or do you wanna let me know when you have some ideas? And I think just making sure you’re not abandoning them in those big, big feeling and moments, and you’re giving them the opportunity to have autonomy over what they’re experiencing. You’re telling them that they can tell you what they need, and that’s so empowering for a young girl. Right? Being being very open. Like, is there something that specific I could do for you? Sometimes my daughters will ask me they’ll be in that headspace that’s out of control, but I’ll just say, would you like me to be here with you, or do you want some space? And they’ll all the time say, I want you here with me, but I don’t want you to talk. And so they’re just telling me they need the space. They need the sound and this chaos to slow down, but they need somebody in there to also hold on to all of that chaos with them until they’re ready to then talk about it. Sometimes I just offer, you know, let’s go sit outside for a second.

Al Zonsius [00:33:20]:
Let’s just go take a couple deep breaths. Let’s listen to some music we both like. Let’s put on a record we both like and just sit and just sit. Let everything slow down a little bit. But I think giving your kids autonomy over what they need is so huge. Those kids, eight to 12, is a tough age. It is a tough age. They’re experiencing a lot of things in that lifetime.

Al Zonsius [00:33:41]:
So, yeah, giving them the choice how they can be supported.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:45]:
Well, I truly appreciate you sharing that. And, you know, your your mission is so much more than just periods from everything that you have just said. It’s from what I’m hearing, it’s about not only periods, but helping young people to understand and feel comfortable with their bodies. And I guess as we finish up today, is there anything else that you’d wanna say in regards to how fathers can truly contribute to their daughter’s overall sense of body confidence and autonomy in a way that fosters trust and empowerment?

Al Zonsius [00:34:17]:
That’s a big question. I’m gonna try not to carry on like I have. I would say try not to always let the default for when it comes to very feminine things in life always go to the mom. I think starting to show that maybe because you’re a guy, you’re a male figure, that you don’t have any kind of understanding of those things for kiddos. I think, like, there’s nothing more wonderful than, like, my husband taking out my girls and then picking out a a Barbie and a really sparkly dress. And, like, that may be seen as something that I would do with them, but he loves having those moments where they can be in their feminine selves. And and I he sits down and paints their nails, and they sit down and paint his nails and, like, just kind of really desensitizing this idea that all the feminine times in your life have to go towards one way. And like I said, you know, girls really do have these fears, about being only with dad when they are in the most, you know, vulnerable time of their life.

Al Zonsius [00:35:16]:
And that to me just shows me that dads just need to do more inside the home, be part of more conversation inside the home. Maybe it’s not something you’re comfortable talking about, but maybe you have, like, a pamphlet or a brochure. I have a good print off on the our website on theperiodacademy.com, and it’s like it’s like the stages of puberty so that when you know, like, your period might be getting close, just give that to your kiddo and say, I found this. I thought it might be helpful and supportive of you to know kinda where you are at in your puberty years And when we know the period’s coming, bring her things home. If she’s PMSing and starting her period or she’s on her second cycle or whatever it might be, like, bring her something sweet home. Bring her a bouquet of flowers home. Make her feel feminine. Make her feel good.

Al Zonsius [00:35:56]:
Make her feel empowered. Build that relationship so that you are such a safe space for her that you can be like that forever. Be that guy that’s, like, really hard to compete with when she’s an adult woman, you know, looking for her life partner. And I think that would be the best. Right? I want our kids, my children to always say, like, you know, their future partners in their lifetime, if they so be you know, happen to be males, you have to compete with the love and the safety my daughter my dad provided me. And I think that’s, like, the goal dad should have for sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:27]:
Well, well, Al, I just wanna say thank you for sharing all of this today. And I guess as we conclude and we finish things up, as you think about fatherhood and your dad and other dads that are out there, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? What would you say to them?

Al Zonsius [00:36:51]:
I would say to as much as you can, when you’re together, to be very present with each other. We live in this world where we’re kind of being overpowered by technology, and I have found it greatly affects kids. And for myself too, I always find myself answering emails on my phone or messages on Instagram or whatever it might be. And in my brain, I’m like, I’m working. I’m working. I’m always working. But when you’re in the same room as your kids, try to find those moments to be super intentional. Turn off all the technology and be just intentional with your time.

Al Zonsius [00:37:24]:
Even if you do have work to do, give your kids an hour of your undivided attention because that is starting to become very rare for a lot of relationships with kids. And especially for dads who maybe are the breadwinners and who maybe work a lot, you know, just like even if it means scheduling it. Scheduling, you know, from twelve to two, like, everything’s off just me and you, kid. Like, what do you wanna do? What do you wanna get up to? And I think, you know, that’s a good kind of tool of advice for a lot of parents and even for myself to remind myself to really kind of carve out time to be intentional and be really kind of mindful of your interactions and make them be something that is clear to that child that you are engaged with that child in that moment, whatever their kind of game they’re playing or wanna do. I think that’s really important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:07]:
Now for anyone that wants to find out more about the Period Academy, where should they go?

Al Zonsius [00:38:11]:
You can go to the periodacademy.com, or you can find us on Instagram. On Instagram, I do a lot of tips and kinda teaching tools, and I share a lot of videos about how we can kind of approach certain topics based on periods. And then also on TikTok, I’m in my late thirties, remember, so I’m getting better and better at TikTok, but I’m trying. And, so, yeah, the period academy at the period academy on all the social medias.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:33]:
Well, Al, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Not only your story about your own relationship with your father and the things that you had to do in your life with that, but also in what you’ve created and what you’re continuing to create to help parents, not just dads, to help their daughters to be able to maneuver through this time in their life that can be kind of tumultuous, but also concern thing, it can also be a questioning time for them, for you as a dad, and I truly wish you all the best.

Al Zonsius [00:39:06]:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:09]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and daughter connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:39:40]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and musclemen, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Outro Performer [00:40:32]:
Be the best dad you can be.