Dad of Divas

One Dad's Quest to Regain Control of his Kingdom

Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child

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This week’s episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Building Unbreakable Bonds: Chris Singleton on Fatherhood and Love

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In the latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes an extraordinary guest: former professional athlete, best-selling author, and inspirational speaker Chris Singleton. This heartfelt conversation dives deep into fatherhood, resilience, and the profound ways dads can nurture strong, confident daughters, even amidst life’s toughest challenges.

Chris Singleton opens up about the joy and responsibility of raising his young daughter, sharing intimate stories—like their first daddy-daughter dance—that remind us how essential it is to be present and cherish each moment. He emphasizes intentional fathering, recognizing that quality time matters more than quantity and that even simple routines, like reading together or affirming your child’s beauty, play a vital role in building self-esteem and resilience. As Chris Singleton says, “Your presence, it matters. Even when you think they don’t see you there… your presence, it matters” 28:18.

A powerful part of the conversation addresses difficult topics: teaching compassion, navigating conversations about differences, and helping children process a sometimes divided world. Inspired by his personal journey through tragedy and the loss of his mother, Chris Singleton shares how he uses children’s books and open dialogue to foster empathy and curiosity in his children. He encourages dads to model respect for all, even when encountering different beliefs or backgrounds, and to proactively address hard questions rather than shying away from them.

Other highlights include practical advice for approaching conversations about race, mistakes Chris Singleton made early in fatherhood, and strategies for raising compassionate, curious kids in the age of social media. Vulnerability plays a central role; letting children see emotion and grief, he explains, not only builds trust but also reassures them that it’s okay to feel and share openly.

Ultimately, the episode offers a hopeful message: embracing love, forgiveness, and open-mindedness at home can prepare the next generation to lead with unity and understanding.

To every dad looking to grow deeper connections with his daughter—and to anyone seeking inspiration in today’s world—this episode is a must-listen. Hear the full story and practical tools by tuning in to The Dad and Daughter Connection—it may just change the way you parent, and the way you see the world.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:53]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to talk together, to work together to help you to be able to make those meaningful connections with your daughters one step at a time. It’s not always going to be easy. It takes time, it takes effort, and you do have to work at it. But it is so important to put in that work and to know that putting in that work is you are going to be able to build those connections and build those true bonds with your daughters that you want to have every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that are offering you an opportunity, an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow and to put some, I’m going to say, tools in your toolbox that you can take with you. And you may not take everything, but my hope is that you have an opportunity to be able to take something, whether it’s one thing, five things, 10 things that you’re like, ah, that’s something that I’m connecting to. And, and today we got another great guest. Chris Singleton is with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:
And Chris is a former professional athlete who played for the Chicago Cubs. And following the loss of his mother in a racially motivated mass shooting, Chris has now become a nationally renowned inspirational speaker and best selling author. And he travels all over the United States and beyond to be able to spread a message of love, of compassion, and of really helping others to be able to think, think differently about the world around us and how we talk to one another, work with one another. But even beyond that, he’s a father of three and he’s got one daughter. So we’re going to be talking about his own experience in being a father to a daughter. And we’ll also talk about some of the journey that he’s been on and some of the things that he has been doing with his own kids to be able to help them to live in the world that we’re in today. So I’m really excited to have him here. Chris Singh, thank you so much for being here today.

Chris SIngleton [00:02:53]:
Absolutely, man. I’m grateful to be on talking about my baby girl. Girl, love it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:57]:
Well, I’m really excited to be able to be here today and to talk to you. I know we just saw each other at a recent conference that you were speaking at, and this is a topic that you don’t always get to talk a lot about. You mentioned your daughter in your speech, but I love it when we get to delve into fatherhood. And I guess first and foremost, I wanted to ask you about that relationship with your daughter. And I know she’s still young, but in her life so far and in your life with her so far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Chris SIngleton [00:03:28]:
Yeah, I think one of the most meaningful moments thus far is the first daddy daughter dance we did. You know, she’s almost three. And so at two years old, that daddy daughter dance and she was actually dancing. I was like, oh, it’s just going to be just her standing around and no, she was getting after dancing and wiggling and we had a great time. And there was a point where, you know, one of the older girls at their school started dancing with her and I just saw her. I was getting like a little emotional. Like, man, this is what a blessing it is that I get to be her dad and not only protect and provide for, but just be her friend. As she grows older and I’m looking at her, I just started getting emotional.

Chris SIngleton [00:04:06]:
So that was probably a moment where I actually stopped and just felt the moment. Because so frequently you have these experiences with your kids and you’re just like, oh, it’s an experience. You don’t really stop and just take it all in. And that’s one that I know in 20 years I’m going to remember that first daddy daughter dance that we did and how I was getting emotional. Like, man, how cool is that? I get to be her dad. So that was one so far.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:27]:
And like you said, your daughter is still young, but I’m sure that there are some ways in which some intentional things that you’re trying to do to be able to strengthen your bond with your daughter. So talk to me about some of those things that you tried to do intentionally with your daughter to be able to build that Unique bond with her versus what you’re doing with your sons.

Chris SIngleton [00:04:46]:
Yeah. And I think it’s super important because my boys, I coach them in baseball, I coach them in sports. And so she sees me doing this. We know. Even when we do bedtime, sometimes we’ll take the boys to bed first, and they’ll be talking about me coaching them. They’ll be talking about something baseball. And then my dad said. Then my daughter says something about, hey, Daddy, what about me with ballerina? Or what about me with this? And I’m like, you know, daddy loves that too, sweetie.

Chris SIngleton [00:05:09]:
And, you know, I can’t wait for you to go to your ballerina class on Friday. And so we have those same moments where it’s like, yes, I have my time with my boys, and I kind of combine the time with the boys sometimes, but I need to do a little better about splitting them up. Hey, older son get some time. Younger son gets some time. And most of the time, it’s like, hey, Daddy, with the boys. And then it’s like, daddy with baby girl. And whether it’s just reading with her the other night, I noticed it because I didn’t notice this with my boys. How.

Chris SIngleton [00:05:33]:
And I don’t know if you know, the stereotype is girls learn so much quicker. They’re so much smarter than boys when they’re young. But my daughter was literally sitting down in her. In the rocking chair that we usually sit in before bedtime, and she was flipping through this book as if she knew exactly what she was doing at 2 years old, and she’s pretending like she’s reading, and I’m sitting there smiling at her, and it was a beautiful moment. I’ve got this nickname for my daughter, and of course, I told you guys at the conference that I call her Chocolate Chip. And so every time I’ll say, hey, who’s my Chocolate Chip? And she’s like, I am. And I said, do you love dad? She’s like, yes, I love Daddy. And so we have these little small moments.

Chris SIngleton [00:06:07]:
But I know one day when she’s a little older, I might be dropping her off at school. And I’m like, who’s Daddy Chocolate Chip? She’s like, dad, come on. So I got to cherish these moments right now. And I surely, and I truly am

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:17]:
now, no dad is infallible. We all make mistakes. We’re humans. And I guess even this could be with your sons, too. But with your daughter, what’s a mistake that you’ve made? And what did you learn about fostering positive connections? With your daughter?

Chris SIngleton [00:06:33]:
Yeah. I think the biggest mistake so far is just thinking when I’m spending time with all three of my kids, that I’m spending time with every single one of them. And I didn’t do that with my daughter. I’m picking my boys up from school, we’re taking them to the batting cage real quick, Then we’re going back to get baby girl. Or it’s like, hey, my middle child likes to play golf, and so I’ll go play golf with him. I’ll let the oldest stay at home. And I’m spending quality time one on one with my older boys. And I wasn’t doing that with my baby girl.

Chris SIngleton [00:06:57]:
And my excuse, because we have to give ourselves excuses. I used to say, man, she’s so young. Can I do with her? And I realized you can do literally everything with her, too. And so I started to try to be more intentional about saying, hey, maybe this Friday I’m picking baby girl up early, and I’m taking her with me. Whether I’m riding around to the bank or whatever it is, just having her with me, spending that quality time, not just all three kids, but just with her. And I think that was probably a mistake I made early, is just having the excuse. Well, she’s so young, I don’t know if I can do anything with her. And I realized once I started bringing her with me, it doesn’t matter.

Chris SIngleton [00:07:28]:
You can take her just about anywhere. Even if we’re on the golf course, she’d like to just sit in the golf cart drinking juice box by herself and watch Ms. Rachel. So, like, sometimes it’s just bringing her with me and not using the excuse, oh, well, she’s too young. I think that’s a mistake that I made early on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:43]:
Every one of us, as fathers of daughters, are doing what we can to be able to try to help our girls to feel both valued and heard. What have you done thus far to help your daughter feel that in your relationship to date?

Chris SIngleton [00:07:59]:
Yeah. I think every kid, but especially daughters, they find their confidence, they find their beauty, and they’ll ask daddy or mommy, hey, do I look beautiful? And my daughter is obsessed with those words. And so every morning when we get baby girl dressed and we’ll put clothes on her, she doesn’t like it, she’ll let us know immediately if she doesn’t like the clothes. So we already know at a young age she’s going to be some type of fashionista. And so she will put on her clothes. If it’s not a dress, she doesn’t want it. So we have to change her clothes and put on a dress and we finish and we do her hair, whatever it is, she’ll always give a little twirl and say, daddy, do I look beautiful? And I think she’s asking for that recognition. And I tell her every time I say, baby girl, you’re beautiful before, and yes, you’re beautiful right now.

Chris SIngleton [00:08:41]:
And so just hearing those words, I think is so important. Building that self esteem, knowing, hey, in my faith, I’m fearfully and wonderfully made, like God made me the way that I am, and I’m beautiful on the inside and out. And just hearing that from dad, I think it hits deep. Because yes, she asked mom, but she always runs to me and asks me to, hey, daddy, do I look beautiful? And she does a little twirl and I say, baby girl, you look so beautiful. And you see that smile, you see that confidence. And I never want that confidence to waver. And so as kids grow, there’s middle school where kids use mean words for no reason, but it’s just part of the gig. And there will be a time where I’m sure somebody’s going to say something about my daughter that, you know, isn’t the nicest thing.

Chris SIngleton [00:09:19]:
And my hope is that she’s heard from her mom, from her dad, from her family, like, I am beautiful, I am amazing, I am smart, I am courageous, I am all these different things. And so if she hears otherwise, it should be in one ear and out the other, because she knows she is. And that’s what I’m trying to instill at this young age. And hopefully she gets older. I’m sure there’s going to be still be those parts of her where she’s, you know, crying because X, Y and Z happened. But I want her to know deep down inside, hey, I’ve always heard who I am as a person. And so if somebody has something else to say about me, that’s a problem with them and not with me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:52]:
I mentioned at the beginning that you speak all over the world. You have been bringing a message of love, your neighbor, to the world in many different ways. And your message of love, your neighbor really came out of an incredibly personal tragedy. How has becoming a father changed the way you think about that message today?

Chris SIngleton [00:10:14]:
Yeah, well, I think initially the only reason why I started writing children’s books is because I’m thinking, how do I even tell my own kids about my story? It’s very traumatic. It’s very glass half empty type of story. Not message but story, I mean, just losing my mom the way that I did and having to tell your kids that, you know, unfortunately there are some people that hate others because of the chemical in their skin that makes them the color that they are or telling your kids, hey, unfortunately, there’s people that judge others based on their first language and all these different things that they’re hard conversations to have with your kids, especially when there’s tragedy involved. And so writing children’s books is the way that I said I can talk about tough things in a non traumatic way. And so yes, there’s going to be conflict in my children’s book, but it’s not conflict of losing a life. It’s a conflict of maybe a kid gets picked on because the clothes that they wear or maybe their hair is a little different or maybe they wear glasses or whatever it may be and so they feel a little different. But in the end of my stories, they’re always celebrated, no matter where they’re from, what they look like or what makes them different. And sharing this with my kids, sharing it with kids all across the country in the world, kids start to look at each other a little different, like, oh man, okay, so we all have something that makes us different.

Chris SIngleton [00:11:17]:
Maybe my grandma does raise me, that makes me a little different. I don’t have my mom and dad raising me. But you know what, that’s okay. This person’s a little different because maybe they’re on the spectrum or maybe they wear glasses or I’ve even had kids would say, hey, Chris, I’ve got six fingers and I thought I was the weirdest kid in the world until you showed that everybody has something that makes them different. Now, you know what? I’m not ashamed of my difference. It’s what makes me who I am. And so sharing this with my kids, sharing it in children’s books is the easiest way for me to talk about tough things in a non traumatic way. And it’s been a blessing to be able to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]:
As I thought about that, as parents, many of us want to raise our kids who are compassionate and empathetic, but we also know that the world can be divided. What would you say are some practical ways that dads can intentionally model love and respect at home?

Chris SIngleton [00:12:01]:
Yeah, I think first and foremost, I think there needs to be. You have to teach your kids there’s a certain level of respect we have for everyone. In doing so, you say, hey, this is maybe not the way that we do it in our family, but some families out there do it that Way. Now, you don’t compromise on the things that you believe in and things that you hold near and dear to your heart and your morals, but you acknowledge that, hey, to your daughter, like, hey, this is the way that some people do it. Now, we don’t think that way, we don’t believe that way, but we still going to respect them because that’s how they think, and that’s how they believe. I think having that conversation early on and letting them know you don’t have to compromise on who you are to just acknowledge that somebody else does something different is powerful. So doing that, I think it’s been really cool to see that in the progression. And then it also, when your kids ask you questions, you got to be able to answer them, because even at a young age, it’s like, hey, well, dad, what are they saying? It’s like, oh, well, that’s Mandarin, right? That’s not what we speak, but that’s a language out there.

Chris SIngleton [00:12:55]:
Or you see families that look totally different than yours. You’re like, well, dad, what is that? And you’re like, well, hey, that’s not the way that we do it, but that is out there. And so I just want to teach you and let you know that things may be different out there, and maybe that’s not what you believe or what I believe as a family, but that’s out there. And I think sharing that early on helps people, especially our daughters, understand. Okay, just because it’s different doesn’t mean we have to hate or doesn’t mean we have to do that, because that’s not what we do. But we can still acknowledge that that could save some kids and our daughters from. From learning things elsewhere and not talking to us about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:30]:
I mentioned that you speak to organizations and schools and other groups across the country about and connection. What conversations do you think that parents are avoiding right now that they actually need to be having with their kids?

Chris SIngleton [00:13:46]:
Yeah, just the one I just shared, right? Talking to kids about how some families may look different or how, like, I’ll give you a prime example. When my oldest was five years old, he went to school and he told me how one of the. One of his classmates had two moms, and he’s like, well, dad, you know, where’s. Where’s your dad? And I was like, hey, well, this is how they do things, their family, dad. It’s a little different than what mommy and daddy have, but that is out there. And so sometimes as parents, we’re like, man, I don’t want to talk about that, like, they’re shying away from it instead of leaning in and letting their child know, hey, this is out there. But that’s just not what we do in our family, in our household. And as awkward as it is, as nervous as it makes you to talk about certain things, believe it or not, the kids are seeing it, and they’re putting two and two together in their own minds.

Chris SIngleton [00:14:29]:
And so they need Daddy to be there. They need parents to be there to kind of navigate that for them so that they’re not questioning everything else. That’s what I’d say is important. And don’t shy away from it. You gotta lean into it. In one of my books, I say loving everybody, whether their skin is darker or lighter, whether their skin is looser or tighter, their hair is looser or tighter, whether their skin is wrinkled or rough. Why should it matter? Love is enough. And so we’re talking about different people and different things.

Chris SIngleton [00:14:54]:
You know, some people are on the back end of life, and we just share all these different intricacies about being a human being, and we’re talking with kids about that, and I think that’s beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:03]:
So the reality is that difficult events happen. Things do happen. People see it in the news, and some of these do involve race, hate, or violence. How do you think that fathers can approach those conversations with their kids in age appropriate but meaningful ways?

Chris SIngleton [00:15:18]:
I will say one mistake I made as a. As a dad is sometimes I talk to my oldest. Because, you know, you’re your first. Your oldest is like your guinea pig. You’re just. You’re doing everything you can trying to figure it out, right? And I wouldn’t let my son have Nerf guns. I wouldn’t let him play, like, shooting video games. And one day he finally like, why can’t we do this, dad? And I said, because, you know, Daddy lost his mom to a person with a gun, and it was a very hateful guy.

Chris SIngleton [00:15:41]:
And so then my son became very scared of just anything with guns. And I said, man, I probably told him that a little too young. And so what I should have probably said, going back is like, hey, we’re not gonna do that, because Daddy doesn’t like those. And when you get a little older, they’ll tell you why. And so when things happen in our world, maybe explain it in a way that, you know, maybe that’s not teaching love. Maybe that’s not loving people like we should and how Daddy’s gonna teach you. But that is out there, and that’s why I’m. It’s so important that I’m teaching you this because I never want you to feel that same way too.

Chris SIngleton [00:16:10]:
And so explaining it in that way early on is important. And then as kids get older, especially middle school, oh, my goodness. We think because middle school is the age where you want to shelter them, but life is being thrown at them because some kids are growing up a lot earlier than others and so they’re hearing stuff. And so we have to be proactive in saying, hey, this is what we think, this is what we believe. And yes, this is happening in the world and it’s terrible and you know, we hate to see it, but that’s why I’m teaching you the lessons that I’m teaching you, because I want you to know I want us to lead with unity and love the way that I think that we should.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:40]:
You know, your story is rooted so much in forgiveness. How do you teach either your kids or other kids the difference between forgiveness and ignoring wrongdoing?

Chris SIngleton [00:16:51]:
That’s beautiful. I think even when we give consequences to our own kids, it’s like, hey, I was in a small group with parents and one of our themes was I learned it from a dad who was phenomenal. So I use it all the time. And when we discipline our kids, we say, hey, I’m doing this to either keep you safe or make you better. Single time. I’m either doing this to keep you safe or make you better. Well, dad, why can’t I do X, Y and Z? Because I want to keep you safe. Doing that is going to hurt you or hurt somebody else.

Chris SIngleton [00:17:17]:
But dad, why can’t I do X, Y and Z? Well, I want to make you better. You’re not getting better as a person by doing that. So that’s why we have this consequence, right? And so in every scenario, sharing that has been really neat. And so I use it for everything. I mean, literally everything. Daddy, why can’t I have, you know, candy right now? It’s 9:30. You know, eating candy right now. You know, you probably don’t want to brush your teeth like you’re supposed to.

Chris SIngleton [00:17:40]:
That’s not going to keep you safe, right? You’re going to have cavities. You’re going to do X, Y and Z. It’s been a huge tool for me even as my kids get older. Well, dad, why can’t you buy me the nicest car? Well, I don’t think that’s going to make you any better. You got to have some sweat equity in this deal. And so if I give you everything, I’M not making you better. And so I’m going to use that with everything. And I think that’s the tool that all dads should have when they.

Chris SIngleton [00:18:01]:
They had to discipline their kid or have to say no.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:04]:
You know, a lot of dads worry about saying the wrong thing when talking about race or bias with their kids. What kind of encouragement would you give to parents who want to start these conversations but are feeling uncomfortable?

Chris SIngleton [00:18:16]:
Yeah, well, we have to do the work on ourselves first and figure out, make sure we’re in a good space to teach. Because the worst thing you could be is a hypocrite and you’re telling your kid to do something and you’re doing the exact opposite. And so I think that’s the number one thing. You lead by example. I don’t want to touch back on the whole forgiveness piece just really quick, because I don’t want to rush past that. When I think about forgiveness, forgiving doesn’t mean that there’s no consequence. There’s no accountability. Right.

Chris SIngleton [00:18:41]:
So if I forgive my daughter for doing something, I’m still going to say, hey, you still got time out. I still love. You know, I love you, but you still have to sit in time out for a minute because that was not kind to do. That was not smart. You didn’t listen. So it doesn’t mean that I forgive and just pretend like it didn’t happen. No, you’ve got to learn from your mistakes. But I also say my faith, belief, forgiven.

Chris SIngleton [00:19:00]:
And we all are forgiven if we receive that. And so it’s a line where it’s like, hey, there’s accountability, but there’s also grace. And I think you got to have both. And so I want to just touch on that really quickly because I don’t want people to think that forgiveness is letting the person off the on the hook. No, there’s going to be consequences, But I forgive to move forward. And I think that’s big.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:18]:
Some of the things that you’re talking about really are. I’m hearing you, that you’re encouraging your kids to be curious. They really try to see the world in a broader view. What are some simple habits that, that dads can build into their lives that help their kids to grow up with a mindset of curiosity instead of fear toward others?

Chris SIngleton [00:19:38]:
I think a big one is watching sports. You know, I said, we’re gonna talk too much sports. But, you know, you got the World cup coming up. You had the Olympics. You know, when the Olympics are here, learning about different countries. Well, dad, what’s Botswana. I don’t know. Let’s look it up real quick.

Chris SIngleton [00:19:51]:
Let’s look up what they do in Botswana. Let’s look up their culture. So having these. These conversations is really cool. In our household, soccer is big because my wife is from Brazil. And so because my wife’s from Brazil, I’m sure my daughter’s gonna grow up playing soccer because mommy’s gonna want her to play soccer like my wife did. And so, you know, you’re gonna learn about different cultures. You know, the more that you play sports, and if you’re a dad that likes sports, you know this.

Chris SIngleton [00:20:13]:
The longer you play sports, the more that you’ll play with people that are from different places, different cultures, different whatever. And that’s a beautiful thing to teach your daughter. One of my friends, his daughter was actually really, really good in soccer. And then she started playing in college, and she started playing with girls from around the world, and she’s like, whoa, you know, there’s different levels to this. And you realize that once you start playing at a higher level. And so watching sports, learning about different countries, the World cup, the Olympics, and then you dive deep when you watch with your daughter, like, hey, let’s look up Morocco. I always love looking up language, food, and where it is on the map. And so those are three things I love looking up.

Chris SIngleton [00:20:49]:
And so if we’re watching France, because we think France is going to win the World cup, and we’re like, let’s look up France. Let’s see what they got going on over there. And having those conversations, it’s fun, and it’s in a proactive way. And then when something may happen in the world, you’re not, like, circling back, man. I don’t. You’ve never talked about this place before. It’s like, no, we want to be upfront about different places in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
I’ll ask you one other question about sports, and that really comes down to the fact that I’m sure that there are things that have happened in your life through sports that have provided you some lessons and things that have helped you to be the father that you are. So what lessons from sports or teamwork have influenced the way in which you father your kids? Kids?

Chris SIngleton [00:21:27]:
Yeah. Well, I. I’ve read some statistic, and I’m going to butcher it, but I. I saw, like, most women in leadership played sports at a young age, and I don’t know what the percentage was, but it was a high percentage. A high, high percentage. And so, dad, you guys can look that. That percentage up So I think sports are good just to put your daughters in sports. I think it teaches accountability, it teaches leadership.

Chris SIngleton [00:21:46]:
It teaches leading by example, because your teammates won’t buy into anything you’re saying unless you’re doing it too, so you got to do that. It also teaches failure. Failure and realizing, hey, we’re not going to succeed in everything all the time. But how you respond to that failure is everything in life. And so if we turn the ball over in basketball, or we strike out with the bases loaded in softball, or if we miss a free throw when we really needed to in basketball, like, whatever it is, how we respond to that is how we will make up majority of our lives. So those are some things that sports has taught me as an athlete.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:16]:
You know, I think about the world today and how social media has really created a lot of division. How do we help kids hold on to hope and kindness when they’re constantly exposed to negativity online and in the media?

Chris SIngleton [00:22:31]:
Yeah, I actually did some work with our legislators about this because I saw that social media has just become so divisive. And I love the stories where it’s like the kid with a lemonade stand out at the first tee, raising money for his buddy in school that has cancer. I love those stories. We need more of those stories. But it seems like we get pushed and we get fed the beast of the algorithm is anything divisive just gets. Gets pushed to us even more. And so censoring or monitoring what our kids are watching are engaging in is important. And then making sure, because we have to make sure that our kids aren’t the ones that are bullying or on the other side of that.

Chris SIngleton [00:23:07]:
And we all think, especially our daughters, like, oh, our daughter is just. She’s so amazing. She’s the nicest person ever. She would never. Until we started reading some of the stuff that they’re posting, we’re like, hey, we might have to have some conversations. So being proactive and not being blind to that is important as well, because we never think it’d be our kid to be the bully until we find. Find out that it’s our kid that’s the bully. And so just monitoring what they’re watching, what they’re saying.

Chris SIngleton [00:23:28]:
And then I always say there is. It is a blessing and a compliment to have high expectations for your kids. And so with our daughters, I have high expectations that you won’t do this online, you won’t say this online, you won’t be that person online. And so if that’s my expectation for you, it May be high because I’m monitoring your stuff. I’m making sure you don’t say X, Y and Z. I’m doing that at a place of love because I have these expectations for you. You. And making sure that the algorithm that they have isn’t one that’s going to fuel hatred and division.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:
You know, you’ve inspired a lot of audiences through vulnerability and honesty in what you share in front of the groups. How important is it for dads to let their kids see emotion, grief, and healing?

Chris SIngleton [00:24:11]:
Oh, my goodness. It’s so big. Because if our daughters, our kids especially, just grow up thinking that dad doesn’t show any emotion, sometimes they’re gonna think they shouldn’t show emotion or they’re not going to come to us because he won’t understand. Because I’ve never seen him get sad, right? So if they’re sad, you know, I probably can’t tell dad because he won’t understand. I’ve never seen dad sad before. Now, if we’re open and vulnerable, it’s like, you know, I can come to dad with anything because I’ve seen him have the same emotions that I felt and he’s going to feel with me when I share this with him. I think that’s big. And for so long as husbands and fathers, we think, man, we have to be that rock that nothing shakes us.

Chris SIngleton [00:24:46]:
Us, right? We’re the foundation of the family, and nothing should shake us or hurt us. But in doing so, sometimes things won’t get to us because, hey, he’s not going to understand. He won’t get it. Because I’ve never seen him say that he messed up, or I’ve never seen him say that he’s grieving right now. And so I think it’s so important that we’re open and honest with our feelings and our emotions. Even other day, I’m watching a video in the car, and I saw this video. It’s like this kid had his dad at one of his games, and before the game, he got his son a new baseball bat. He hit a home run for his dad on Father’s Day, the dad catches it outside of the fence, and he’s like, I got it.

Chris SIngleton [00:25:23]:
I got your home run ball. And you see the son kind of point to the dad, the outfield. And I’m crying real tears, man. And my daughter, my son, they’re like, dad, are you okay? I said, daddy’s fine. But this made me feel emotional because this is a beautiful moment. And so I have happy tears right now, guys. And so like having those conversations, them, they see that dad has feelings too. And yes, we’re strong, yes, we’re going to protect our baby girls, our daughters.

Chris SIngleton [00:25:48]:
But they need to know, hey, we have feelings too. So anything that they feel they can share with us as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]:
What legacy do you hope to leave not only through your speaking, but through your role as a father?

Chris SIngleton [00:25:58]:
Yeah, one non negotiable that I have as far as my legacy is. I don’t want my kids to ever think daddy made a huge impact on the world, but he didn’t make a huge impact on us. I think that’s a, a huge failure as a man that I could have is if I do that, I want them to say Daddy was an amaz person. Not only to people around the world, but to us. He was dead. He was at our daddy daughter dances, he was at our games where we had our first hit or our first home, whatever it may be, he was there. It’s just being active and knowing that they have somewhere to run to or to talk to is huge. And then all the life lessons that I share with them, you know, I just hope that they keep 10% of them.

Chris SIngleton [00:26:32]:
That’d be my legacy. Right. I’m sharing stuff all the time and make sure you’re saving. We’re gonna do a Roth IRA for you young so you can do X, Y and Z. All these things. I just hope that they remember something of this stuff that I’m instilling in them and in doing so, maybe they run into a problem when they get older and they’ll say, you know, my dad always told me, and then they’ll share something else and that’d be huge legacy for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:52]:
So if every family embraced the idea of loving their neighbor, how do you think the next generation would look different from the one we have today?

Chris SIngleton [00:27:00]:
Man, what a beautiful question. I think that kids will grow up knowing that there’s going to be differences in the world. There’s going to be different faiths, there’s going to be different languages, there’s going to be different. Different Everything doesn’t mean different means bad. My wife is from Brazil and in Brazil the culture is all family. You don’t really move away too much in their culture, right? You don’t go away for college. I know you’ve got daughters that are going to college and all this stuff and they’re kind of moving away. And that’s not really the culture in Brazil.

Chris SIngleton [00:27:26]:
It’s all about family and having dinner together on Sundays. And so sometimes we could say you know what? Maybe I want that culture for me, even though I’m American. When you learn about something different, when you learn that, you know, sometimes times in some cultures they don’t use technology, they just sit around the table and talk and have meals together on certain days. I like that. And so maybe we can put that into our family values as well. And that’s beauty. When you see that when kids growing up, that different doesn’t mean bad. Different just means different.

Chris SIngleton [00:27:54]:
I think our world would be a lot better place now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:56]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. You ready?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:03]:
Let’s do it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:03]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:08]:
I’d say right now it’s just very gentle. Right now, gentle is my word.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:12]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:17]:
Your presence matters. Is the best advice I’ve received. Your presence, it matters. Even when you think they don’t see you there and you’re just there for six hours, or are they really going to care? They’re so young. Your presence, it matters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:34]:
Right now I’d say he’s reading books together. She loves that. So reading is our activity right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:44]:
Hard work is important. Would probably be. My biggest thing is like, hey, working hard is important. In a world where AI makes stuff easy and there’s shortcuts to everything, hard work is still super important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:55]:
And what’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Chris SIngleton [00:28:59]:
I’ve learned that sometimes I need to stop and take in the moment more because I’m young guy and I had to grow up really quick and so I’m always ripping and running and doing that, you know, all these different things. But sometimes stopping and just being present in the moment is the greatest blessing we could ever receive. And so that’s something I’ve learned about myself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:19]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Chris SIngleton [00:29:26]:
I’d say having high expectations for our baby girls is important. And never get so caught up in that you have to provide that you forget that being there matters just as much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]:
Now, if people want to find out more about you, what you’re doing, your books, etc, where should they go?

Chris SIngleton [00:29:43]:
My website’s chrissingleton.com and I got all the social medias. If you just search up C. Singleton underscore two or just search up Chris Singleton, you’ll see all my content and stuff there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:54]:
Well, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for not only sharing about your own journey as a father today, but sharing your message of love thy neighbor and help us think a little bit differently about the way in which we not only talk about this, but treat others. I truly appreciate the message. I truly appreciate the time and I wish you all the best.

Chris SIngleton [00:30:15]:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:17]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being correct perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:30:47]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Building Lasting Bonds: Intentional Fatherhood with Adam Angel

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In this powerful episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Adam Angel, father, therapist, and founder of the Dads with Wisdom community. Together, they explore what it really means to show up for your daughter—not just as a parent but as a vulnerable, intentional human being.

A recurring theme in their conversation is intentionality. Adam Angel shares touching stories about helping his daughter face challenges, like her anxiety before a swim test and building confidence in new activities like basketball and jiu jitsu. Instead of forcing outcomes, he strives to give her the safety and encouragement to try, fail, and choose for herself. As Adam Angel reveals, “I want you to see what it could look like…I’ll show you, and you can tell me if you want to do it after you try.”

The episode delves deeply into supporting your child through difficult moments, embracing open conversations about emotions, and being honest with your kids about your own struggles. Adam Angel reflects on the need for dads to be “open-hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but to be able to learn from her, and also grieve or struggle through something with her.” These moments of honesty, he suggests, build trust and teach kids about resilience and empathy.

Another core lesson: connection isn’t always about grand gestures; it’s often found in the consistent, day-to-day presence—whether it’s attending basketball games, settling in for bedtime, or making one-on-one smoothie dates. Adam Angel emphasizes that just “showing up and being there” in both small and big ways tells your daughter she can count on you.

This episode doesn’t shy away from tough realities, either—like how admitting mistakes and apologizing as a parent strengthens bonds, or the challenges of allowing your child independence in a world that sometimes feels unsafe.

Lastly, the conversation highlights the importance of community and vulnerability for dads. Through his Dads with Wisdom groups, Adam Angel sees firsthand the transformative impact of men supporting each other, breaking cycles of isolation, and learning together.

If you’re a dad—or anyone invested in raising confident, emotionally healthy daughters—this episode offers a wealth of practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement. Listen now and be inspired to connect more deeply, both with your child and yourself.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:
I love being able to have you here every week because it is an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for you and I to be able to learn and grow together. You know, I’ve got two daughters, you have daughters, and you’re here. And I applaud you for that. Because by showing up, that’s saying something. Because that means that you do want to create a stronger, more lasting relationship with your daughter. And that’s why this podcast is here. This podcast is here to help you, to give you some tips, some tricks, some tools for your toolbox to help you to be that dad that you want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]:
I love being able to introduce you to different people, different people with different experiences that can give you some help along the way, give you some perspective about things that might have worked, maybe they didn’t work, but it will help you to be able to frame how do you want to show up for your daughter. So I am really excited because we are having a brand new guest here today. Adam angel is with us. And Adam is a father of two. He’s got a. He’s got a son and a daughter, and we’re going to be talking about his daughter, of course, but we’re also going to be talking about a community that he has been building over a number of years called Dads With Wisdom. And it’s an. It’s a community that you might want to check out yourself, so we’ll learn a little bit more about that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:22]:
Adam, thanks so much for being here today.

Adam Angel [00:02:24]:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]:
I’m really excited to be able to have you. And for full transparency to everyone. Adam has been on a previous podcast with me. So my old in my past podcast, the Dads with Daughters podcast, Adam was on four years ago, so we’re moving forward in time. And now his daughter is nine years old. And I’m really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper into what’s happened over those years and what’s happened up till now. And I guess to start off today, one question that I, Adam, is, as you think about the relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughter and what made it so special?

Adam Angel [00:03:02]:
One of the most meaningful moments was when she was trying to pass the swim test right before the swim team. This was after we last talked. And I think in terms of being more active and trying to find a thing that she could do physically, that wasn’t something that came automatically to her. There was a lot of anxiety around sort of that or idea that it wasn’t good for her, meaning, like, didn’t fit her. And so really what I was navigating on my end was trying to figure out how much to push and how much to support and sort of leave it to her. And this was like a moment I’ll never forget, because as we had been doing swimming classes, I could see that she was, you know, getting some confidence, and she had. We ended up with this wonderful teacher who I started the training, and then I could see that she needed something from someone else and that had been really good and progressed. And then there was this moment where she wanted to pass a swim test and was really afraid.

Adam Angel [00:03:56]:
And we had set up the swim tester. You know, there was like, some date to do it, and if you passed that, then you had a chance at the swim team, which she could. I could definitely tell she was interested in, she expressed interest in. So anyway, so we’re driving there, and she started to get nervous, and she said, I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to do a swim test. And I said, you don’t have to do it. We’re already in the car. We’re already halfway there.

Adam Angel [00:04:21]:
You’re in your swimsuit. Let’s go there. We’ll be there. We’ll stand there. And if. If you don’t want to do it when you get there, we don’t have to do it, but I want to just go. And she said she agreed. She didn’t really say much, but she didn’t protest.

Adam Angel [00:04:32]:
And she can protest. She doesn’t have a problem with that. So we get there, and at the pool, we’re Standing there and she. They call for kids her age and she looks over and she’s about to say something to me. I see her shed one or two tears and I said, I just looked at her, I’m like, you good? And she just kind of nodded and she would just jump right in. And then she passed the test, which was just awesome. And honestly, right after she passed the test, she just jumped in, like with her friends, and then she started playing the rest of the afternoon in the pool. It was just like a lot of relief on both sides, I think, for both of us.

Adam Angel [00:05:09]:
And I was just appreciating what I took from that. And by the way, she. So she joined the swim team, and then the next summer she was on the swim team as well. And then she did during the year. So just seeing how this progressed. And I’m happy to share more about that, but that moment for me was a lesson for myself on how much to push, to not want it for anything, but for her, but also to not let her sort of go in the house, you know what I mean? And just not see what she might be missing. So, like, you know, here’s what it could be. I don’t need to push you any further than this.

Adam Angel [00:05:39]:
And it was a, it was a great moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]:
Now you just talked about the fact about pushing and trying to help your daughter to be able to achieve kind of those, those passions, those dreams that she has for herself, the things that she wants to accomplish. Talk to me about how you go about that support and what do you do to be able to support your daughter in pursuing those passions and dreams.

Adam Angel [00:06:02]:
What I’ve come to understand is like, I can help her through some low level skill building, meaning, like, you know, she wants to join something more serious. We’re going to give her that opportunity, structure. But first I need to support her in understanding that everyone has fear, everyone has these barriers. And then I show her how this has happened to me and I support her in getting her in front of these situations. Like, like an example was the pool. But later she. She ended up trying basketball and she ended up loving it. But the reason she loved it is she ended up doing a summer camp for a week, which was really high intensity, which I was a little worried that could send her the other way.

Adam Angel [00:06:44]:
But I always give her the opportunity to say, like, hey, like, you can try this and you could step away from it, but I want to just show you what it looks like, you know, what it could look like. My dad used to say to me, better to Be the tail of the lion than the head of the wolves. And I’ve shared that with my kids and they both like it. They enjoy that. They notice that. And last week was the first week that she. And I’ll tell you how that came about, but she decided she wanted to try jiu jitsu and so she did it and she enjoyed it. Whether she stayed with it or not, I’m not sure.

Adam Angel [00:07:12]:
But she stayed with basketball and she loves her neighborhood basketball team now too. So just to think of her last time we talked when she was 5, doing these different activities and just building this kind of confidence in ourself is just quite a progression. And I think ultimately it was, this is what it looks like. I’m here to support you through it. This is what it could look like at the very basic level. I’ll show you and you could tell me if you want to do it after you try it or even in the middle. If you want to give up, that’s okay. But I want you to see.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]:
I love the intention that you’re giving to that. And I guess one of the things that comes to mind are thinking about the intentional ways in which you’re working with your daughter and helping her to be able to not only see you as a real person and understand your background and what made you who you are, but also helping her through those, those fears, those anxieties and more. Talk to me more about some of those intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times. Because we all know that it’s not always easy, but there are challenging times too.

Adam Angel [00:08:17]:
So right around Covid hit, this was a really hard obviously for so many people. And we. She was four and she was three and a half and. Or three and a few months. And my son was just being born, which was crazy, 10 days in. And that was really hard moment. And I think of it as maybe the hardest moment for her and having to not let her go back to her pre K which was such a great place and so like everything from there and before that. But I’ve just like understood that, you know, there is just when you can’t do something, you have to grieve with your kids sometimes.

Adam Angel [00:08:51]:
And at that time I think I was just not equipped with the level of connection to myself and open heartedness for my own grief of what was happening. And I remember she held for a little bit a lot of shame at that time because I was like, you can’t go to school. And she was like basically telling Me, oh, I’m going to school. I mean, she fought me like it was the. I was the worst thing in the world and I was breaking my heart. I remember she, I think she bit me like that. She had never bitten me before, but she felt like that was very bad about that. But I told her, like, that’s what, first of all, that’s what, you know, she.

Adam Angel [00:09:23]:
Even years later, that’s what kids do and we work through it. And I wasn’t shaming her for that. And at some point, you know, sort of as she got older, she and many kids, you know, can hold shame around what they do or how they feel and so on, and just making it more and more open by having these conversations, especially while driving at night in these moments of like, intimacy and just being honest about how it was hard for me and what was hard for me and how I’m open to whatever is going on for her. And so it’s been wonderful to sort of be able to be that person for her. And I’ve grown and learned so much from her about my necessity of being open hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but just like be able to learn from her, but also to grieve, as I said, with her or struggle through something with her. And I think that honesty, you know, doesn’t mean that I’m giving up my authority and my, you know, being able to tell her, hey, this is what we need to do. Sometimes it just means that there’s a softness that’s available to her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]:
And your daughter’s getting older, not yet a preteen. We’re getting close into those tween years. How have you found that you are balancing guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence to grow into the person that she’s becoming?

Adam Angel [00:10:39]:
I had a moment where my wife and I keep having this conversation over and over. Like, there’s some friends that have phones and then I’ve told her she’s not having a phone and I’m not giving her any data when she will. Like, it’s just not on the table and I’ve told her why. And then at one point she was really, you know, pushing and I said, okay, I’m gonna explain again. And I gave her like in depth about how this either essentially she’s could be connected to many things that actually might scare her that people that I don’t know, there’s no checks and so on. And you know, that’s a bit high, high level for a nine year old. But she understood to some degree and Then that same day I said, you know, I wanted me and my wife and I talking about it, but I just decided to go for it because I wasn’t necessarily comfortable with it. But I was thinking this is the opposite way, to provide some opportunity for her to have freedom.

Adam Angel [00:11:32]:
And I sent her out with her brother without us on bikes. So he’s six, she’s nine. And I feel that she’s much more, even much more responsible, more than she already is, especially when he’s around and she’s in charge. I think that’s useful. Then it’s just like, guys go. And she like looked at me like, are you serious? And I’m like, I was like, this is the way that you can go and explore as opposed to on the phone. And I’m not going to come with you. I’ll be, I’ll be out there in 30 minutes or something.

Adam Angel [00:11:58]:
And I told her the perimeter, which was about a mile, we have like a park not too far from us, like a, both a school park and a community park. It’s a good amount of green, plus sidewalks. You know, she doesn’t have to cross many streets at all. And I said, told her she knows the route. Go, that’s where you can go. And I went out there 30 minutes later when my wife was like, can you go right? And I’m like, okay. And when I went out there and they were fine, they were fine. But I just like trying to juxtapose those two for her and for me, because it was hard, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s worrisome, but it was fine.

Adam Angel [00:12:31]:
It was totally fine. And I hope that it will continue to be fine when I send her out every day. So to kind of trust the people that we put her in hands, including

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:39]:
her own, you know, that brings up so much. I mean, and I think back to my own childhood and the way in which I was really a free range child in the sense that in my generation, I think our parents were like, yeah, go outside, go and come back. You need to be back by this time and we’ll see you later. We didn’t have phones, we didn’t have any of that. But, but I think that there definitely is a difference in the way in which we are. There’s a fear in a lot of parents to do that in the safety of our kids and, and whether we should be doing that. And there’s some reality to that as well. And I guess one thing that comes to mind as I hear you say that is that you’re providing your daughter with the ability for her to see that you trust her and that you are listening to her and that you want her to feel valued, heard, and also that you trust her to make good decisions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:32]:
And I guess as you think about that, what are some of the things that you’re doing intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Adam Angel [00:13:40]:
These are day to day things as opposed to like the big story. It’s like I thinking about having conversations about her friendships, little things, these conflicts that seemingly we would might say like what’s really this about this is not important or whatever but. But they’re very important. These are conversations about being enough, knowing that you’re, you’re okay to be different, to set it something as simple as she likes fashion set a trend as opposed to having to follow other people rebutting people or the boys in her class are like characterizing all girls in one way or mistreating her another classmate is so just hearing the story and being like, you know, that’s asking her how she feels about it, what maybe her frustration with it or and so on and then, and then pushing her to know that she’s okay regardless of others view of her, that it’s most important, it’s her own view. And that can seem trite, but it really is so central to her experience because that’s a lot of our hours of her day are with peers. And we make a point, my wife and I make a point of when we’re together, we’re together and like being connected, connected to them and like we do a lot of camping. So now she wears that and I bring that into the situation because I think that gives us space to be connected in a different way and have like her voice heard around different topics and just being with it and not so peer oriented because so much of her life can be because of school. And so like you know, it doesn’t mean they don’t do play dates.

Adam Angel [00:15:06]:
There’d be plenty of that and so on, but just kind of coming back to it and helping her understand herself and how she really feels and so she can rebut other people’s ideas around her with her own.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]:
I love that now none of us as dads are infallible. We’re humans, we make mistakes. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication?

Adam Angel [00:15:31]:
Maybe it’s good to use the day to day so that it feels more normal for people that are hearing it. Because I think when there’s moments where I move to anger, you know, with either one of the kids and sometimes or misunderstand because I made a judgment and about what they were doing and so on, or how they were speaking or so and so forth, it’s like, essentially what I’m doing is the opposite of what I just talked about, which is that I’m not waiting to listen. I’m not seeing my daughter as. There’s an idea in, like, the psychotherapy world that we. That I, like, trained in, this is my. As my profession, that we can see others at times and different moments as objects in our life as opposed to subjects in our shared life. And I think essentially objectify her. I see her as like, okay, she’s just someone in my life, and I can just say or do what I please.

Adam Angel [00:16:19]:
And like, it doesn’t. Again, doesn’t mean that I can’t have my authority of being okay, like, I’m the adult here. But it does mean that in those moments when I made mistakes and I think that they’re frequent enough and I can say, like, these moments, I just sort of like, this is how I. What I want to happen, and it’s not happening the way I want it to happen. And so how I characterize this, essentially, many times we have a parallel process between our kids and us. And like, in these moments, I’m like, I don’t want this. I want this to work this way. And she’s like, well, I want us to have this.

Adam Angel [00:16:49]:
And essentially we’re both having an experience of wanting something and then not be able to get what we want and then having a tantrum of, like, loss around it. Right? Like, I want this. And really what we both need to do on some level, and us first being the adult, is to accept that this is. May not going to work the way we wanted it to. And that sucks maybe for us, depending on situation. And then we can be with their grief if it’s not working out for them either. Or maybe we’re able to accommodate a certain situation. But the point is, is that there are a number of these mistakes.

Adam Angel [00:17:21]:
I don’t think it’s useful just say one big one. I think those happen frequent enough where I just like, oh, yeah, right. I just may not get what I want here. So. And then I maybe act out on my. My daughter by saying, you need to do this or you this. And maybe it comes out in anger. So.

Adam Angel [00:17:35]:
And I have to come back and apologize and then say, like, I didn’t see you in that moment. Or that was hard for me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]:
And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Adam Angel [00:17:44]:
This is a do not say type of thing. Just showing up and being there. Basketball games, those are the more regular big moments. And then the other ones are like putting her to bed, getting her up in the morning, taking her to school. I think just like the regularity, the frequency, the explanations when you can’t, showing that you’ve been thinking about them, willingness to listen to them first, I think knowing when I’m going to be there for you, and so on. I think also, like, maybe moments with others where other people are objectifying your kids and you’re like, no, I’m on your side. And it doesn’t mean that. Again, like, I’m like, you need to be respectful of your teachers, for example.

Adam Angel [00:18:19]:
But if the teacher is acting out on your kid in the sense that they’re not seeing them as a whole person and they’re just kind of treating them, again, like just whoever there will step in and have a conversation with them. But again, I’m also talking like a student conversation today. She may struggle with a particular class. And I ask her, like, is this. Is there anything in this that you could do for yourself to improve the situation? Because, like, it seems like maybe you could have done something here, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not wrong if you’re in your protest. And I got you, I’m on your side here, but, like, look at your side a little bit too. So I’m holding both lenses and. But I think she knows that I’m coming from a place ultimately that I have her back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]:
And what’s the tradition or routine that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Adam Angel [00:19:07]:
There was a period of time that was quite hard when she was younger, where it was she. She went to a different school first. And I like, my funny story was that she’s like, went to a school and then she went into like, the public school. And it was really. She really struggled with it. And I said, I told her, like, if you want to go somewhere else, she said, what she said is, they don’t know how to teach. She’s like five telling me this, like, six weeks into her school. I’m like, oh, my God, this is crazy.

Adam Angel [00:19:39]:
So then I’m like, but I think there’s. What she’s saying was, I don’t want to sit and do worksheets. That’s what she’s saying. I don’t blame her. So Anyway, we ended up trying a different school. But I told her, if you really want to do that, you have to go and do these like tours and stuff. And she did it. So we ended up going somewhere else.

Adam Angel [00:19:55]:
But during that period of time, you know, at the other school, I started this tradition. I took off work on a particular day early. And so when I picked her up on Mondays, we would go just one on one and pick a place and have a smoothie or something. And then we don’t do that every week now like we did, but we do do something else now. For example, right now we’re Wednesdays, we go to Jiu Jitsu. Right? That’s what we’re going to do now. But before was did a practice a day that we did practice basketball one on one. And I do that with my son too.

Adam Angel [00:20:24]:
Like just making that one on one time. And like, this is just for you, me and you connect. But especially when you realize it’s like a season for challenge. Like, more like this month has been really struggling. The intervention is almost always best. Intervention is one on one time and making sure they know that you’re putting them first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:40]:
So I mentioned the fact that you have a site called Dads with Wisdom. And one of the things that I wanted to kind of first start with is that not everybody knows what that is. They may never have heard of it. So bring me back to the beginning and talk to me about the inception of Dads with Wisdom and why did you decide that you needed something like Dads with Wisdom and that other dads needed something like Dads with Wisdom?

Adam Angel [00:21:07]:
Yeah. So my son was born 10 days after Covid. We went home. The doctor said nobody can come and visit for like 60 days. We happen to live near our family on both sides. We were like, why did we do this? Now it’s like, this sucks. So we’re just all alone and just really struggling. I was in the nonprofit world before I went to private practice.

Adam Angel [00:21:25]:
And that was a lot to. And it was there I kind of like decided that just like I’m gonna go and go leave my job and took some time to do it. But then I had more time with my son and that process. I was thinking, oh man, this has got to be a really hard time for fathers. And what came next is I reached out to a few people in my area, Washington, D.C. area, just like practitioners that are also private practice. Like anyone running a group for dads. And nobody was.

Adam Angel [00:21:51]:
There was one person who was a woman who’s who ran at one time and, and I had a nice conversation with her about how she did that. Then I put out emails around it and I got like a ton of responses, but all of them from women, mostly practitioners and many wives asking for this to work. And I was like, okay, I’m not messaging this well or to the right audiences. So I spent some time, created this website and I got in touch with a local called the Breastfeeding center of Greater Washington. And it’s basically like they do classes for mostly moms and couples, but nothing for dads. And so I, you know, we had a good conversation about it. I essentially became like a partner affiliation and we started running them and then it filled up very quickly and I don’t charge that much for these group. And it’s 10 sessions.

Adam Angel [00:22:40]:
I just read all I could read in terms of books and et cetera. And then I just created like this semi structured group where I like, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was like, I think this is like a little bit after this. I was talking to you about this not too much longer after. And what I was doing when I knew enough, what I didn’t know was like, what do men really want? Because I think they were telling me one thing and maybe they wanted something slightly different. But I was like, maybe more emphasizing the topics and such and like kind of like the educational sort of aspect. And then I, I think what really they wanted was a space to discuss this stuff. And it was good to have those topics and structure, but also really important to stay attuned to what they really were wanting that day.

Adam Angel [00:23:20]:
And so what I’ve come to do is like those 10 sessions still exist. I still have those about three times a year. So that’s 30 weeks of the year. And these guys are basically getting more space before at the beginning and the end of these sessions to kind of just say what’s going on for them, but also getting some topic based discussion and also like if they want resources, different topics of new parenthood. These are all for fathers that are first time fathers and new kids. And maybe we meet one time in person now as well. The rest are virtual because I have guys coming from Baltimore all the way to like Virginia Beach. So those are the three areas of my licensing.

Adam Angel [00:23:58]:
But you know, I even have guys sometimes come from outside of the area because this is not really therapy. This is not therapy. It’s like peer based support. So that’s what propelled me to do it and how it started. And now it’s like what surprised me with all These groups that are now actually what would be called psychotherapy groups. And I have multiple of these running and there’s six or so guys in each one and they love it. And I’m better at it than I was five years by a lot. I think a lot of it is my own internal growth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]:
And then sometimes there’s a stigma to being in a group of individuals talking about things that make you vulnerable in that way. So for a dad who’s hesitant to join something that’s like this, what would you say to help him take that first step?

Adam Angel [00:24:41]:
Well, first of all, I usually send them a podcast. Sometimes it’s the best way to get and just to receive it as opposed to having to read. I think normalization obviously is the biggest one. Right. It’s like we all go through this. It’s. And I think when having somebody else that’s going through the exact same thing or very similar at the exact same time is just worth so much. And that’s even before I add anything.

Adam Angel [00:25:04]:
Right. It’s just that. And so just I always tell people like, hey, the kind of person that would be in this group is someone like you, who also is thinking, I don’t know if this works out for me. But I think this person’s committed to being a better father and a better partner maybe and a better. And so on. So that’s who’s going to be there. And when you go there, it’s got its own process. So you don’t have to jump right in.

Adam Angel [00:25:25]:
You may. And many times these people do. And so it really depends on the kind of group. But I think that’s why I like talk to people for like 15 minutes before trying to maybe longer, 20 minutes, 30 minutes just to see like, what do you really want here? And people have come and gone in the groups and actually gone to different groups. So like I do like an hour for right before birth for free for people if they want to just like think about how they’re feeling and like prepare for what will happen at the birth and then like the first days of postpartum experience. So like that’s like a free hour. Then people then tend to sign up for the 10 week new dads and then many times a little later, these, they’re men that just like, hey, I just want a more depth oriented conversation with other guys. And that’s the sort of dads 2.0 groups that we’re doing.

Adam Angel [00:26:07]:
I’ve been creating some other groups as well, dads that have lost in like, you know, early infancy or in late pregnancy. I have group for them and also for them if they’re parenting after that loss and like, you know, so they can have a space for being which, which has its own unique thing things to it. So I would say to them like, they’re like you. And there’s, there’s this huge value in having that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
There truly is value in that. And I think it is important to be able to put yourself out there and be able to. And I’ve said this before, to be vulnerable not only with other men, but with your kids in many different ways. I guess as you look at the groups that you’ve created, the ability for people to come together, what’s one story, and I’m not asking you to break confidentiality, that really captures the impact that you’ve seen for dads that have taken part in these groups.

Adam Angel [00:26:58]:
This happened yesterday, I’m not kidding in this sweet group. This like conversation was just very. This is a dad’s 2.0 group and the dad was talking about one dad was basically struggling as newer to the group. I am not the preferred parent. It’s really hard for me. I’m not sure, you know, sort of essentially the level of I’m not at the level of connection I would like with my kids. And other guys were like, first of all, this is a normal pattern that goes up and down. Sometimes times you preferred, sometimes you’re not.

Adam Angel [00:27:25]:
And this guy basically said like. I don’t think he was trying to speak about his, the impact, but I think it was obvious to me. He was like, basically in the last six months that he’s been in the group for about a year and some. And he said I’m the preferred person parent. And I used to get, you know, essentially like overwhelmed and dealing with my kids. And I would essentially, I don’t know his reactions to that, but ultimately now they come to me. They’re all over me all the time. And that’s hard, but it’s a lot better, it’s a lot different than it was where they didn’t know that I was kind of like that connection and depth of relationship just wasn’t where it is now.

Adam Angel [00:28:02]:
So that’s one that just came to me off the top of my head. But I was just like, just appreciating how much he cares, how much he’s worked to be that for his kids. And that took a lot of reflection and self determination.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]:
So one of the other things that comes to mind when I was thinking about this was when we’re talking about Vulnerability and men being willing to connect with other men. Why do you think it’s so hard for men to build authentic community and, and how does that impact their parenting or their ability to be the father that they want to be.

Adam Angel [00:28:39]:
Yeah, actually that. To bring this up when in previous answer. So I appreciate you asking it because I think that’s also how I sometimes. So the group I said like, I mean, people tell me and you can tell me if it’s true. For years I’ll say to someone that they have close friends, but they still don’t have these kind of conversations they need to have where they can actually say what they’re really feeling around life, parenting and their experience as a husband after kids and so on and so forth. And usually the guys will not be like, yeah, I have close friends, or I don’t really have this kind of relationship with friends, but I still can’t have this conversation. And the guys will say like, especially when they’re leaving. And like, I have them like, kind of like just people like say really kind things to them as if someone’s leading a group or something and the dad’s 2.0.

Adam Angel [00:29:20]:
And they’ll say something like that, like, like this has been a different place where I can actually say like, hey, you know, today I didn’t feel like wanting to be a parent. I just, I was mad about being a dad and I didn’t like it. I don’t want to be like. And that’s a really hard thing to say. If I say that somewhere else, someone’s going to judge me. And all the other guys in the group, like, not usually we know what you’re talking about. Because they also know that they’re committed. Just because they’re having a protest has nothing to do with their love.

Adam Angel [00:29:42]:
Those two are not incongruent. And so just naming the frustration and difficulty has nothing to do with the level of care and knowing that the people around you are not going to judge you and know that that is what vulnerability is. I had this wonderful quote from my. One of my mentors in my training institute that I do on a regular basis. And he says there’s a difference between transparency and vulnerability, but only you will know it because it’s an internal experience. I can be transparent with you, Chris, and I can also, I can tell you about my life, but if I don’t feel the vulnerability, then it’s not vulnerable. And usually the vulnerability requires a little bit of worry that this could be harmful to me if you use this against. And that Fear that around that is like, that’s actually.

Adam Angel [00:30:29]:
Well, we of course can explore it. But the bottom line is that’s a risk and you’re taking it. And you’re taking it. Your willingness to take it is its own bond between the guys. And everyone knows it when you’re doing it. You know it first and they know it usually second. And so that’s been something that I’ve actually said as a part of our conversations and times with the guys. And there’s a good response to that.

Adam Angel [00:30:51]:
And they’re able to engage in another level of vulnerability. So I don’t know if I answered all the question if it was like why it’s hard. I think is like. I think the answer is that it’s scary and that we’ve been hurt in a lot of ways to taught not to do that. That’s the real world. Like. And you shouldn’t be vulnerable to every single person because it can be. There are people that have unfortunately not the best intentions but.

Adam Angel [00:31:12]:
But there are plenty that you can. And you can navigate that by just by figuring it out as you go through the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]:
When I think some of that goes back to trauma in regards to what individuals have experienced in their own life. And there’s many men that have generational trauma or patterns that they experienced growing up. And I’m sure you’ve seen that in groups in different ways. How would you say that dads can begin to break those cycles for themselves?

Adam Angel [00:31:40]:
Yeah, I mean this is my work. So like when I’m not doing groups, I’m doing individual therapy. And my focus of training has been in complex trauma. And what that really means essentially is we adjust ourselves as all people do. And even when we’re wonderful dads that we are, Chris, our kids, we’re not going to be perfect for them and therefore they will have to adjust. And there’s. It just is part of life. And that adjustment means that we’re going to create strategies to protect ourselves.

Adam Angel [00:32:03]:
And we had to do that as kids. And so when I work with people individually and in the group, we notice what they’re really wanting for themselves, which is this intention that we’re going to state together. So for example, I would like to have greater self confidence or some state or experience in myself or maybe I want to have more capacity to be vulnerable. But that is where we’re coming from, from the adult side of what we want. Now when we are engaged in relationships, it’s very easy to fall into the strategies that worked for us at one point. Or at least attempted to work for us as a young person in a life where we don’t have any agency as a child, you don’t. Ultimately you’re worried about your, the people that care for you, caregivers and the culture around you. And it has rules.

Adam Angel [00:32:47]:
And you realize those rules. You’re very quick to learn that as a kid until you keep yourself safe through this process. And those strategies, they need to be confronted and addressed. And the way that you do that is by sitting with someone else who cares and has, can support you. And when you do that, working out, for example, in therapy, you get something where you can notice with the person, deepen into the emotions of what has happened, but more importantly, what’s coming up for you now and how you might be allowing in these same things. And I see that allowing with a lot of compassion doesn’t mean we’re intentionally doing it, but allowing in old strategies which are determining things in your life you no longer want. And when you can be that with that, with that, in this kind of process, we can interrupt generational, cultural, all the things trauma that you’ve been through. And again, I’m using that word lightly because I know sometimes people talk about trauma, but it’s, it’s just your experiences or you were limited to what you could do and be and who you could be.

Adam Angel [00:33:47]:
And we’re trying to just say if you want to be something else, you can, but you gotta address it and be with it. And you have to do it with someone who also has this and other people and in the group, other people that are committed to doing the same. So that that’s where the growth can happen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]:
Now if people want to find out more about dads with wisdom, where should they go?

Adam Angel [00:34:05]:
Yeah, so website is dadswithwisdom.com and that’s where the groups are mostly. And if there’s anyone who’s experienced loss in parenting, you know, early life, you know, early pregnancy or late pregnancy loss, I do those groups too. But I keep that off the website and go to Adamodulotherapy.com for. That’s for the individual work and also therapy group. Because I just, it can be really intense for someone who’s lost to see those pictures of babies that are sort of on the Dads of Wisdom website. I also am doing a retreat in the fall. It’s the first time I’ve ever done that. And this is sort of listening.

Adam Angel [00:34:38]:
I went to a men’s retreat myself, was profound and very thoughtful, pushed me further. And so I was like you know, I could do this. So I’m going to be doing something in the Shenandoah area and it’s going to be exciting. So that’s also happening now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:52]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? I don’t know. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Adam Angel [00:35:04]:
Maybe an easy one. Loving, caring, Something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:07]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Adam Angel [00:35:11]:
I’m not sure if it’s the best, but it’s true. This too shall pass. It’ll change again. It’s okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:17]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Adam Angel [00:35:20]:
Sometimes it’s just sitting and having a nice snack at this, like, particular place that we like, have like good little drinks and we just kind of like look out the window. We have a good conversation. So I think that’s one of the big ones. I think I mentioned other, other ones earlier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Adam Angel [00:35:38]:
You’re enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:39]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Adam Angel [00:35:42]:
I want to be silly with it and say I’m enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Adam Angel [00:35:54]:
I think what we’re talking about here is obviously don’t give up stuff. You’re going to be okay. All these things that we’re just mentioning. But you need, you need. If you want to be a rock, you need a mountain, you need and to sit on. And I think that’s. That’s the men that can support you. And so you doing it alone is.

Adam Angel [00:36:10]:
It’s the start to do not really possible in the same way or it’s going to be really detrimental to do it. So you need to be the person that you want to be, the dad that you want to be. You need other men to support you. You’ll get where you want to be that way much easier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:24]:
Well, Adam, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today for the work that you’re doing with dads with wisdom and for sharing the journey that you’ve been on with your daughter up till now. It’s still keep going to keep going, and you’re going to keep learning and it’s going to be an amazing journey along the way. But I truly want to say thank you for being here and I wish you all the best.

Adam Angel [00:36:44]:
Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged, engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:37:17]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Soccer, Support, and the Father-Daughter Journey with David and Scout Murray

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This week’s episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” offers a heartfelt and inspiring look at the evolving relationship between a father and daughter as they navigate the world of competitive youth sports, college, and life beyond the field. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, this episode features David Murray, an acclaimed journalist and author of the new book Soccer Dad (available for pre-order), and his daughter, Scout Murray, who has just wrapped up a successful soccer career at Ohio University.

Unconditional Support & Independence

One of the episode’s primary themes is the balance between support and independence in parenting. Scout Murray recalls how her dad never pressured her to follow a specific path and always backed whatever passion she pursued. As she puts it, “[My dad] always just made sure I knew that whatever my passion was, he was going to fully support it.” This foundation of acceptance empowered her to chase ambitious goals in soccer—her journey marked by her own drive rather than parental expectations.

David Murray admits his lack of soccer expertise helped him stay out of “coach mode” and instead be a true fan and ally, which fostered a safe space for Scout Murray to grow.

Perseverance Through Challenges

The episode delves deeply into the resilience required to pursue high-level sports, particularly when the journey gets tough. Scout Murray shares powerful stories of long car rides to soccer tryouts, difficult transitions to elite teams, and the emotional strain of not always being a starter. The message? True growth happens when you face setbacks head-on, and finding the strength to persevere means knowing you have supportive people behind you.

Honest Communication & Emotional Openness

A standout part of David Murray and Scout Murray’s story is their commitment to honesty and vulnerability. They discuss the importance of admitting mistakes, owning up to less-than-perfect parenting moments, and, above all, keeping communication open—even (or especially) in challenging times. As Scout Murray notes, being able to “share everything that was going on” helped keep their relationship strong through ups and downs.

Lasting Takeaways

Whether you’re a dad, a daughter, or simply someone looking for insights into meaningful relationships, this episode offers encouragement to value presence over perfection and emphasizes that taking your child’s challenges seriously is one of the greatest gifts you can give.

Want more of these hard-won life lessons and candid, touching stories? Give this episode a listen—you’ll walk away inspired to build stronger connections with the ones you love. Catch it now on the “Dad and Daughter Connection.”

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I am so excited that you’re back with us again this week.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]:
As always, every week, I love being on this journey with you. As you know, I’m a father of two daughters and this whole podcast was developed for you as someone that is also raising daughters today. And one of the things I love is that every week we can be on this journey together and you can gain something every week to help you to build those stronger connections that you want to have with your daughters. And we do that every week by having opportunities to talk to different people with different experiences that are able to bring those connections to the forefront, whether they’re dads, moms, or other individuals that can help you to be that dad that you want to be. And today I’m really excited to be able to have two guests. David Murray and his daughter Scout are here and we’re going to be talking about a brand new book that David has out called Soccer Dad. But we’re also going to talk about the relationship that the two of them have together. And David is an author of a number of books including Soccer Dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:59]:
So he has a number of books that are out there, but he’s also an award winning journalist who’s writing on sports and other subjects, has appeared in the New York Times, Chicago Tribune, the Atlantic and other publication. And Scout is on her way to graduating from Ohio University after a successful career in soccer at Ohio University. So we’re going to be talking about that as well. So I’m really excited to have them both here. David, Scout, thanks so much for being here.

Scout Murray [00:02:24]:
Thank you.

David Murray [00:02:25]:
Great to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here today and I always start with these conversations with an opportunity to delve a little bit deeper into the connections that the two of you have. And I know we’re going to dig into that a little bit more in the book, but I guess on the top end, first and foremost, Scout, I’m going to ask a question to you. As you think about the relationship that you’ve built with your dad, what’s one thing that your dad did for you that made you truly feel seen, heard and valued as a daughter?

Scout Murray [00:02:54]:
I would say he, since I was little, has always made it very clear that there was no pressure from him to do a specific thing. There was nothing that I felt like I had to do to make, like to impress him, I guess I would say. And he always just made sure I knew that whatever I. Whatever my passion was, he was going to fully support it. So I think when it came to soccer, he never told me what I should do, told me how I should go about things. He kind of just like followed my lead, I guess I would say. And I think that always made me feel super comfortable talking to him about anything, really.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:35]:
And speaking of that, David, I think every dad tries to help to guide their daughters. And how did you balance guiding Scout while also giving her the independence to grow into the person she’s become today?

David Murray [00:03:50]:
Well, I think one of my qualifications for being a good soccer dad was that I don’t know a damn thing about soccer and I never did. So it wasn’t like we were in the car and I was giving her all this advice about how she should have played a certain way or certain shot. So I always kind of approached this as kind of a fan. To some extent, I was grateful that she did not play baseball or football or a sport that I even think I understand. So that was, I think, kind of my main qualification as a soccer parent and scout.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:22]:
I guess looking back at the relationship you’ve built thus far as well, was there a moment where your dad’s support or guidance really had a significant impact on your growth or your confidence?

Scout Murray [00:04:34]:
There was one summer that I think stands out to me when we spent the entire summer going on visits. College visits, college soccer visits. Yeah. We would drive somewhere, oftentimes for seven hours. I would sleep the entire time. He would drive me. And I feel like, I mean, I didn’t realize it at the time because I think I was extremely self centered. But looking back on that summer, I think that I look back on it a lot and I think it made me realize, like, how much he’s willing to put in to show me how supportive he is of my passions and what I want to do.

Scout Murray [00:05:10]:
So I think that moment is when I was like, okay, if I have this support system behind me, and I really want to do it. I should really just go for it. So I think that’s when I really.

David Murray [00:05:21]:
Realized that that was a hard summer for a number of reasons. And one of the reasons was it is horrible to travel with teenagers. They’re either sleep or they’re awake, and they’re looking at Instagram and dying of fomo. Even though their friends are just kind of hanging out somewhere in Chicago, they’re never there with you. And the second they are there with you, they’re trying to get you to listen to their music, and you’re trying to listen to it and care about it, but you can’t quite do it well enough. And it was, like, the longest summer. We were hoping it would be fun. It was not really fun, but it was productive.

Scout Murray [00:05:59]:
And it’s good to look back on.

David Murray [00:06:01]:
It is fun to look back on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:02]:
Yeah. So some of the things you’re just talking about, there are finding intentional ways to build those bonds, and you sometimes are forced into those ways, but you also make those as well. So I guess, David, what are some intentional ways that you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with Scout, even when times might have not been the easiest? Or maybe it was challenging, like a trip where you’re not talking a lot, but you’re going places. But there’s other times, especially in those teenage years. So what are some intentions, Ways that you’ve done that?

David Murray [00:06:34]:
I mean, a lot of humor. I think she and I tease each other a lot and always have, and that has kind of never gone away, even in hard times. Just staying engaged, like, talking about everything, asking her about what’s going on in her life, being up for hearing most of it. There’s stuff, as a dad you don’t want to hear a lot of. Like, during high school, there’s a lot of social stuff that’s uncomfortable to hear about. There was a show that Scout wanted me to watch that was. That was trying to portray. It was a show.

David Murray [00:07:04]:
What was that show? It was about a high school in New York.

Scout Murray [00:07:07]:
Oh, yeah. Grand army or something.

David Murray [00:07:09]:
Grand army or. It was a show like that. And it was about this high school in New York where all these terrible things were happening. It was just high school society. And she said, you got to watch this, dad. You got to watch this to understand what this is like. And I was like, I hate this show. I.

David Murray [00:07:23]:
And I watched four episodes and that as far as I could go. But I did watch the four. It was like shaving my head with a cheese Grater. Because it’s just really hard. And I think about my parents. They were great parents, but they weren’t getting down in there and engaging in ways like that. I had no company like that.

Scout Murray [00:07:39]:
I do think we, even during hard times, are, like, very honest. And I think part of that is just, I’m an open book. I don’t keep things in well. So I think instead of just acting out, I would act out and then be like, this is why I acted out. And we talk about it the next day. There was never a fight that wasn’t talked about. I feel like if something happened, it was, well, this clearly needs to be talked about. So I think just, like, honesty and trying to just, like, share everything that was going on.

David Murray [00:08:09]:
So you’re taking credit for our wonderful.

Scout Murray [00:08:10]:
I am. My openness.

David Murray [00:08:12]:
I actually think that’s true. I think there have been times where I’ve wished she would gild the lily a little bit and not tell me everything that’s going on, but not so much. I mean, in the book. And the college experience was really interesting to me when I went off to college. And you might relate to this, too. I don’t think I talked to my parents until Thanksgiving, and then I don’t think I talked to them again until spring break. I mean, you’d had to go down the hall and call on the payphone and call. I mean, Scout would facetime me after practice on the way to class, and it was just no big deal.

David Murray [00:08:42]:
It wasn’t a show she was putting on. She was like, I had a bad practice, or I had a great practice, or, we were up way too late last night. And so. And we were always talking about this. In the book, I talk about, you know. You know, where my dad was during this time in his life. He was marching to Berlin in World War II. And I said, like, I wonder what his parents would have done if they’d had the same communications.

David Murray [00:09:04]:
And they probably would have been sending him nice text messages about his march, wishing him well on his march to Berlin. It’s a different time, but it’s the technology, which we complain about a lot, which has ruined a lot of things, has made this kind of communication a lot more natural and easy. When we talk to our parents once every couple months, even if it’s once a week, you were kind of putting on a show for him. You were telling him everything was all right. You were telling them you were getting good grades. And when it’s. When it’s daily like that, you can kind of maintain a More human, easygoing relationship, Definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:35]:
Now, Scout, one of the things, I guess, that I’m interested in is the relationship with your dad. And how does that relationship influence the way that you navigate life, relationships, or challenges that you deal with?

Scout Murray [00:09:47]:
Yeah, I think I’ve actually talked about this with my friends because I think a big thing in this. I see it a lot on social media is, like, if a woman has had a bad relationship with their father, they have a really hard time navigating relationships, especially, like, romantic relationships. And I think. I mean, he is just, like, set the expectation of, like, how a man should treat anyone, like, let alone women. And I think I’ve, like, taken that very seriously. And he always jokes about he’s not the kind of dad that is, like, super mean and scary to any boyfriend I bring home, which I think is a good thing. But, yeah, just like, you don’t need to be. I don’t think.

Scout Murray [00:10:33]:
I think I view men differently because of him. You don’t need to be this extremely strong, masculine, crazy man. Like, you can just be a normal human being and emotional and kind.

David Murray [00:10:47]:
And so I think I’m a big crybaby.

Scout Murray [00:10:49]:
Yeah, he’s a crybaby. So I think it’s okay for men to.

David Murray [00:10:53]:
I loved your episode not long ago that it’s okay for dads to make mistakes and admit it, that one Scout does not need to listen to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
She.

David Murray [00:11:01]:
I know that we get that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Speaking of mistakes there, David, I guess as you think about your relationship and how you’ve built that, what’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it or learn from it about fostering better communication with Scout?

David Murray [00:11:17]:
Well, I talk a lot in the book about that as a soccer parent, but I think this is completely universally true. I think the fundamental problem of being a parent is you have two instincts, two things you need to do. You need to keep this kid alive. And in that way, you need to protect them and guide them and make sure they go in the right direction. But you also need to show this kid how to live, which means you let him do stuff. They do stuff. They make mistakes, they screw up. And in, you know, in soccer, that means, you know, not telling them.

David Murray [00:11:46]:
You got to play on this team. You got to do this. You got to apply to this school. This is your life. Like, a lot of parents get really prescriptive, and they start pushing their kids in directions and to the point where the kid must start wondering, am I doing this for them or for me? I made Mistakes on the other side, at least in soccer, I don’t know about it. In life, I let it all play out. I figured if she was talented enough and wanted it enough, it would happen for her. That turned out to be basically incorrect.

David Murray [00:12:16]:
And we. And there were. There was a moment where she had to go up to a higher league. And that might have happened a year before had I been a little bit more on the ball. And I basically feel like I was lazy about that. But you make mistakes on each side of that equation. I think a lot. And I think the parents who in general figure out how much freedom to give and how much guidance to give, I think.

David Murray [00:12:38]:
And I think that’s a daily agonizing problem for every parent all the time. And I think I’ve done a decent job at that most of the time. But when I’ve made mistakes, I’ve made mistakes by being lazy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:48]:
I think let’s move over to the book too, because you started talking about that. And one of the things that I noticed early on in the book was that you describe the soccer journey as starting innocently enough and something and then slowly becoming something far more consuming. So I guess looking back together now for both of you, when do each of you think the dream subtly shifted into something heavier? And did you realize it at the same moment or at different times?

Scout Murray [00:13:15]:
It’s kind of a confusing story because I think if you asked me when I was seven what I wanted to do, I would say be a professional soccer player. I was very committed from an early. I mean, he still says I never, ever would have missed a soccer practice, ever. And it wasn’t because I felt guilty. It was just because I genuinely loved soccer more than anything. And the soccer setting in Chicago is very interesting because it’s not super, super high level inside the city. So I think I just was like, if I’m playing on a decent team and I’m the best player and I love all my teammates, I’m gonna play at a super high level. Like, I had never been told otherwise.

Scout Murray [00:14:00]:
That’s just kind of what everyone. I was known as the SOCCE player. I made varsity as a freshman at my high school. Everything was going. Seemed to be like, going great. And then right about when Covid hit, I started training with a new trainer. And he basically was like, if you don’t get better, you’re not going to play D1 soccer. Like, let alone the top schools, you’re not going to play D1 soccer.

Scout Murray [00:14:23]:
And that was a wake up call for sure. And I just Decided. I remember, like, I think I just one day was like, I need to change clubs. And I just decided, like, I need to step it up. Like, I just know I do. So we tried out for the best team in the state. And that was a terrible wake up call. I mean, so many tears.

Scout Murray [00:14:42]:
Yeah, it was a terrible. So I think in that moment was when we both were like, oh, yeah.

David Murray [00:14:49]:
There’S a scene in the book where she shows up at this tryout, and it is the best team in the state and maybe in the nation at that time. And so I was there with her. What we both saw, we were unprepared for it. And there was crying all the way home by her and silenced by me because I had nothing to say at that point. She had to switch clubs, and she had just gotten her driver’s license. And now she’s driving herself to an hour north of town for this soccer, for this torturous, incredibly hard, not very nice people around this team soccer. And she cried all the way up half the time, and she cried all the way back half the time, but she did it.

Scout Murray [00:15:27]:
But that. I think that is when, like, we both realized. It wasn’t even a question whether I was gonna do it either. I had a tissue box in the passenger seat and would, like, seriously cry because I dreaded it so much. And the fact that, like, it was just. I. I have, like, many notes that I wrote of me saying, this is all for a reason. Like, this is all for college.

Scout Murray [00:15:53]:
So I think that’s when I realized. Actually, I don’t even think I realized it in the moment. I was just like, this is what I have to do. But I think looking back, that is, like, very telling of how much I really did want it and how much work I was willing to put in.

David Murray [00:16:07]:
And nobody was telling her she had to do that. She decided to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:11]:
What you just said there, not every person would be willing to keep going. And that says something to push through the pain of the hard times and come out at the. The other side of being able to play D1 soccer, even though you did have to go through some hard times to get there.

David Murray [00:16:28]:
I mean, it’s amazing. All parents look back. You see your kid as this little baby who basically couldn’t feed herself. And you kind of. At some levels, at some level, you see them as that always. And then you look back and, like, I look back at what she went through with during COVID Cold calling these schools. Every. All these guys went through Covid.

David Murray [00:16:48]:
Then all this torture of Driving to this. These horrible practices. Then there was tort that. That there was nothing guaranteed. Then it was more torture to get into colleges. And you just look back and go, this kid was just doing all that and just showing so much character. And you just kind of. I’m amazed.

David Murray [00:17:04]:
Looking back at it, it looks more amazing. Going back at the time, I was not, like, cheering from the sidelines all the time. I was telling her, did you call? Did you email that? Those guys? But looking back, she did almost all that by herself, and it was amazing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:17]:
You know, I think back in looking at the book scout, your dad wrote honestly about moments when his emotions or reactions didn’t align with what you needed as a player or even as a daughter. So I guess as you think about that from your perspective, what do you most wish that parents understood about what kids actually feel during and after games?

Scout Murray [00:17:40]:
I honestly think that’s not an easy question to answer because I don’t think there’s anything that can be said. Like, unfortunately, I think. I mean, from my experience, I was, like, asking for something to be said, but whatever was said wasn’t gonna work. And I knew that. But I think I would text him, how did you think I played? And I would never text him that if I played well. Like, ever, ever would I text him that if I played well? Because it’s like, I. Well, I played great. Like, you saw it and I felt it.

Scout Murray [00:18:16]:
But if I’m asking, what is he gonna say? Like, he’s never gonna be like, you played bad. So I think it’s just listening and just hearing, just letting any rant that needs to happen. And I honestly think the only thing you can do is say something positive that happened during the game. I think you did it as. As good of a job as that as you. Like, you worked as hard as you possibly could. He would always say that. And that’s true.

Scout Murray [00:18:40]:
That’s something I can take away from that. Okay, I. I gave it everything I had. So I think just trying to find something positive to say, but other than that, just. I would say I would avoid any criticism in that moment. Any criticism, because maybe the next day or if they ask or something, but even if they ask right after the game, I would avoid any criticism, because I guarantee you there’s already enough criticism inside our heads.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]:
You know, David, also in the book, there’s a number of moments where you name and own some moments when you became the kind of sports parent that you never wanted to be. How did you learn to recognize those moments in real time? And what helped you repair trust afterward with Scout?

David Murray [00:19:23]:
Yeah, I don’t think I needed to repair trust with Scout because I don’t think Scout was the victim of those things. I don’t think. But I remember in the book I talk about a moment when they were like 8 years old and this goalie let a ball through her legs and she was not a good goalie and suddenly was enraged at her and her parents for putting her out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:44]:
And.

David Murray [00:19:44]:
And I just. You must dissociate from it. I mean, what I really learned was don’t sit with the other parents. The parents have this weird culture where they start to make comments and it starts to build on itself and they start complaining about the players and the refs and the coaches and it’s like its own virus. So I took the lead of one of our parents who would just stand way down at the very end of the field by himself. If you do that, you’re not going to be shouting crazy things at the players. You’re down there by yourself. You’re more likely to shout crazy things at the players when you’re among the other parents and letting yourself get into arguments.

David Murray [00:20:19]:
I would get into arguments with my wife because she had a different way of looking at the game. And I just started just getting away and being by myself. And the other thing that I learned, this was an accident, but I started doing, filming a lot of the games and taking pictures. And that was such a good instinct because it got me in the right frame of mind. It got me in the frame of mind as I’m trying to capture the beauty of this. Who cares if it’s a 2 to 1 game in Schaumburg, Illinois, and they’re 9 years old? Nobody’s going to remember any of the scores. But if I take a wonderful picture of her coming down the sideline or of one of her teammates, then I’ve got that forever. And it doesn’t matter what the score of the game was.

David Murray [00:20:55]:
And doing that put me in the right spirit and got me out of the. The headspace of giving a crap who wins a game among 8 year olds.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:03]:
I can definitely remember those type of games and I can definitely relate to what you’re saying with how parents fed off of one another and how that built. So I appreciate you sharing that.

David Murray [00:21:14]:
There was one time in the car on the way home where it was one of those games and the parents were all mad about how the team had played. And we’re driving home in the car and Scout’s mom and I Are, like, all quiet in the front seat. And I think she’s still in our bed. Car seat in the backseat. She was that young. And I remember her going, wait, are you guys mad? She’s incredulous. And we were kind of, like, sheepish, like, oh, I guess we are mad for some reason. Get over it now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:39]:
Scott, one of the book’s powerful moments or themes that I noticed was that how much you valued team connection and belonging, not just performance. So for you, when competition got intense, what helped you stay grounded in the joy and the relationships rather than the pressure?

Scout Murray [00:21:59]:
I think that was something that, in college was really hard, and I would say a lot because of my parents, but I think all growing up, it was like finding the joy in the game and finding the joy in having these teammates. And we’d always watch this movie, Dare to Dream, which was. What was it?

David Murray [00:22:19]:
The 199099 Women’s World Cup.

Scout Murray [00:22:21]:
Women’s World cup team that was just so close and so had so much fun together. And so I think I really wanted to play D1 soccer because I love the game, but also because I know I’ve seen it, how close these teams get. And so I think that’s what I wanted my whole life. And finally getting there, I did get all of that. I got my best friends, my future bridesmaids, hands down, the best friends I’ve ever had. But I think because it is such a competitive level, it was really hard for me to remember that at times. And I think it’s hard to not become selfish, honestly, because at the end of the day, you never want to be the person that’s not playing. There were times when I.

Scout Murray [00:23:09]:
Every single one of my best friends were in the starting lineup, and I’m the only one that’s not. And that was, like, really hard to deal with. Like, okay, I absolutely love these people, and I do anything for them. But I also hate you right now. I really do. Like, and it was really hard to, like, figure that out. And I think looking back, there were so many moments that I would hate them. At practice, we’d get in a fight.

Scout Murray [00:23:37]:
I mean, this was, like, intense. Every single practice was, like, this intense. And then after, who would I be crying with about it? All of them. So it was just looking back, I’m like, I really was grounded the whole time. I knew these are my people. I think in the moment, though, it was hard to recognize that. But I think looking back, they were the reason why I was doing it. And if I didn’t have them, I couldn’t have done four years of such intense competition.

David Murray [00:24:06]:
And I think Scout going in, valuing that made her very much of a social leader on the team. She wasn’t the team captain, but in a lot of ways, I think if you ask these folks, she’d say she was a big important part of the bonding and culture of the team because she sort of knew going in that that was part of her mission. Maybe a little bit more than some of the other players knew going in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]:
Now, I know you both talked about the journey to the D1 and being able to get to that point in the scene in the book surrounding the Division 1 scholarship offer. It really was filled with, I could tell, relief, tension, second guessing, some silence. If you could revisit that car ride now, what would you say to your younger selves and what would you say to other families facing that exact moment?

David Murray [00:24:55]:
I think that’s partly just natural to feel that way. I would prepare people. It doesn’t matter. If you want to be a physicist and you get into Harvard and you’re going to be the great physicist, you go from the world being your oyster to a very specific thing that’s now happening to you. College seems to close up the possibilities. And so even, yes, we’d gotten her scholarship dream. She was going to get a scholarship. She was going to play Division 1.

David Murray [00:25:22]:
But, well, it’s at this school, it’s in Ohio. At that time, it was only a 1/3 scholarship offer. Did we do the right thing here? You feel like your aperture just gets narrowed and you go, this is my life now. I think I would advise people just to be prepared for that feeling. Honestly, I think it’s kind of natural.

Scout Murray [00:25:39]:
And I remember being very happy and just excited in the car while we.

David Murray [00:25:43]:
Were yelling at each other.

Scout Murray [00:25:44]:
Yeah, I was fine. I don’t know about you, but I think it was also just a lot of fear. Like, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I didn’t know anyone from Ohio. Every single person was from Ohio except for me. I had never heard of the school. I didn’t know if I was good enough to play D1. There were so many things that I think it was just like a lot of fear.

Scout Murray [00:26:06]:
And I would say the same for you. We had just had no idea what we had just signed up for and we were just going with it.

David Murray [00:26:13]:
I don’t think I’d tell anybody how not to feel that way. That’s how you feel when you take a big risk.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:18]:
So, Scout, your dad said at the beginning you played Your last soccer game for ou. Now that you’re on the other side of the journey, what did soccer give you that still shapes who you are today? And what, if anything, did it take that surprised you?

Scout Murray [00:26:32]:
I think I now know how much strength I have and how much I really can do if I really want something. And I would say all the little things that I did, one moment in particular is in the middle of my junior year season. I had just come back from an injury. I was no longer playing much. I had gone from starting to playing 20 minutes a game. And I was so deeply wounded. I genuinely felt like I was heartbroken. And I still got up every morning at 6am in the cold, dark weather and practice extra for an hour before practices.

Scout Murray [00:27:12]:
And I think knowing that even when I’m in that deeply sad state, I can still do really hard things, I think I can take for the rest of my life, even when things aren’t going well or I had no idea if going extra was going to make me play. There was no promises. So I think I can take that into my job, my relationships, into a lot of areas in my life. Something that it took from me, I actually don’t know.

David Murray [00:27:39]:
I talk in the book about the opportunity cost of all this. When your kid’s little, you want them to see all of life. You want them to see every aspect. You want to introduce them to art and music and books and culture and places and Paris and Istanbul. And I’m a journalist and so I. I saw a lot in life and I wanted her to see everything. And I will say that if you get your kid involved in youth sports, that eliminates some of those things. We did a lot.

David Murray [00:28:09]:
Scout went to China on an exchange program. We went to Thailand. We did a lot of stuff as a family, and she did a lot of stuff herself. Soccer wasn’t her whole life, but even so, you spend a lot of time at Hampton Inns, you spend a lot of time on the road to soccer tournaments, and you spend a lot of the time think and talking about soccer. And so I don’t know if Scout feels that cost or something, but when I imagine all the possible things Scout could have experienced in her first 21 years, I think soccer sort of eliminated some of those things. And I think that’s a fact of life. With as intense as modern youth sports.

Scout Murray [00:28:44]:
Are right now, I don’t even think I would say I missed a ton in my youth because of soccer. Maybe I did, but I would say mostly like college, if you decide to play college sports you have to accept that you’re going to miss. I mean, I don’t have many friends outside of my team is one thing, and that sucks. I mean, they’re my best friends, but we’re all pretty similar in a lot of ways. We have a lot of the same interests and goals. So I think that is something I missed out on. Meeting a lot of different, interesting people and not being able to travel abroad. I think there was a lot of stuff that I definitely.

Scout Murray [00:29:22]:
College sports are. It’s a job. It is truly a job, and you need to be prepared for that, because I don’t think we knew exactly how much. I mean, I don’t regret it at all.

David Murray [00:29:33]:
But I mean, I remember asking the coach, and I didn’t want her to join a sorority, but I said, could she join a sorority, for instance? And he’s like, no. No one’s ever done that. She’s in her sorority. It’s called the soccer team.

Scout Murray [00:29:45]:
And I think it’s year round, too, which I think D3 is much less year round. And I think people often say, like, well, you’re out of season now. It’s like, no, it’s still practice every single day. And. And. And someone asked me today actually, how are you feeling about soccer ending? And I’m like, you know, I’m really sad, and I think the sadness will hit me later on more. But I am also enjoying being a regular person right now and thinking about my career. I’ve truly never really had to think about my career until now.

Scout Murray [00:30:18]:
So I think I’m really excited for grad school because that’s kind of my time to just be a normal person and dive into my passion in psychology.

David Murray [00:30:27]:
So, yeah, there was a moment when Scott was thinking about trying to go pro and play in Europe, and she said, you know what? How about not? How about let’s figure out what else I’m good at? Which I thought was a good spirit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:37]:
You know, I guess the one last thing that I think of when I think of the book is if you are talking to a dad, a dad’s listening right now that has a young daughter just starting in her sports journey, whether it’s soccer or some other sports. What’s one piece of advice that you’d give him so he stays connected to his daughter, not just her performance.

David Murray [00:30:57]:
I think it’s the same advice that my dad gave me. It was his philosophy of raising kids. I think it’s so easy as a parent to see that what kids are dealing with, whether it’s soccer stuff or whether it’s friend stuff that it’s kid stuff that small problems, you have a mortgage to pay. This kid only has some little dispute with her third grade buddy. To the extent that you can take their problems as seriously as your problem because they’re actually much more serious because they’re dealing with that for the first time. I’ve paid my mortgage a thousand times, but they’re dealing with that for the first time. And there were times when I didn’t do that as a dad. Scub’s probably thinking of it right now.

David Murray [00:31:37]:
One time I got so flustered at the amount of sturm undrang about her seventh or eighth grade friends, I yelled, these aren’t your friends. These are practice people. Incorrect thing to say. But you feel that way as a parent a lot. I think to the extent that you can take your kids problems as seriously as you take your own because they are serious, you do a pretty good job of parenting if you do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:01]:
Well, we always finish our interviews of what I like to call the dad connection six and a lot of times it’s just a dad on the call. So I love it when we have a dad and a daughter on because I’ll ask you both some questions here. First and foremost, scout. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

David Murray [00:32:17]:
Easy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:18]:
And how about you, David?

David Murray [00:32:19]:
I would say close.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:21]:
Scout. What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Scout Murray [00:32:25]:
I actually told him this yesterday when I was younger. He said I was complaining about having to do something I didn’t want to do, soccer homework or something. And he said what’s a professional? And I said what? And he said someone that does something even when they don’t want to do it. And I’ve definitely taken that I told him yesterday much. I don’t think he realizes every morning that I had to go early to soccer practice and didn’t want to. I would think about that. So that’s definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:55]:
Yeah, good job. And David, I’m gonna flip it back on you. What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

David Murray [00:33:03]:
The best piece of advice I got was from a paramedic pal in Chicago who about a week before my daughter was about to be born, he saw that I was, I don’t know, I was acting nervous or something. He said, what’s the matter? I said, I’m nervous. He said, why? I said, well, well, parenting. He said, what do you think that is? Parenting? Do you think that’s like some set of tricks that you’re gonna put out there and say all the right things at the right times. He said, no. Ultimately, your kids get you and your wife for 18 years, and you can try to be as good as you can, and you can try to use as many techniques as you want, but basically, if you’re good, that’s good, and if you’re bad, that’s bad. And that gave me a sense of comfort. Like, I knew that basically I’m good, basically my wife is good, and that we could only screw this up so much at that point.

David Murray [00:33:49]:
And I think that gives you a little bit of confidence, I think.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:52]:
Scout, what’s one activity that you and your dad love doing together?

Scout Murray [00:33:56]:
Playing tennis.

David Murray [00:33:57]:
And lately, billiards.

Scout Murray [00:33:58]:
Yeah. Playing pool is our new obsession.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]:
And, David, do you echo that, or is there something else that you would add to that?

David Murray [00:34:05]:
Well, I like running half marathons with her, but she hasn’t done it since she was 11, so I guess that’s out. I love playing sports with her when she was little. I say in the book, a lot of parents are living vicariously through their kids. That’s why they. They had kids in sports. I just wanted a playmate. I wanted somebody to play with, and she was always great. From, like, 2 or 3 years old, she would be in pretty competitive sports with me.

David Murray [00:34:26]:
And she was my sports buddy growing up. So we still are.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:29]:
And, David, a couple of questions for you. If you could give Scout one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

David Murray [00:34:35]:
It would be my dad’s lesson to me, which was, this was in. In the old timey, sexist way. But he would say, every once in a while, a fellow ought to do something he’s a little afraid of. And there have been times in life when I was on the edge of doing something and thought, should I do this? This is scary. And I did that thing, and I think it’s always been good.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:56]:
And what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

David Murray [00:35:00]:
Oh, that I’m an emotional disaster. I like, I don’t know how this is with you, but I think about in my 20s, I think I cried maybe once a year. In my early 30s, before I had Scout, maybe I found some reason to cry once a month because I’m movie or something. As soon as she was born, I cry at card tricks and supermarket openings every day. I cry just about every day. I just finished reading the audible version of this book. Yesterday was my last studio session. There’s some emotional spots at the end.

David Murray [00:35:32]:
It was so embarrassing. I Just could not get through it. And it is totally obnoxious if you’re listening to an audiobook and the author starts crying. So I simply wasn’t going to put up with that. But I had to do like, like five takes. So I think I’ve learned that about myself. I’m emotional and I like that. That’s.

David Murray [00:35:47]:
I’m much more emotionally open than my father was. And I feel good about that, actually.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:52]:
And finally, for both of you, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Scout Murray [00:36:00]:
I would say from an early age, try to be as open and honest as you can, because I think kids pick up on that. That and from an early age it was very clear that there was never lying, there was never secrets. And I think that like really stuck with me. And I was raised with the impression that it was always okay to be honest about how you’re feeling and not build up resentment. So I think, and I think sometimes that’s hard. I have friends that aren’t close with their dads and I think it’s because neither of them are honest and neither of them share when they’re upset with each other. And I think doing that will create a good atmosphere.

David Murray [00:36:41]:
I think I learned while being honest with her when she would ask me difficult questions when she was young, questions I wasn’t sure I should answer. I think I also learned that kids, when they ask you a question, they will let you answer and they’ll stop asking questions when they don’t want any more information. I can’t think of an example right now, but there were times where she would ask me a question, maybe about how babies are born or where all this stuff, and you would answer to a point and then the kid would stop asking and then two years later they’d start asking again. And so I felt that you deciding what kids should and shouldn’t hear or can and can’t handle, they kind of actually decide it for themselves and they take care of their own business in that way. And you should err on the side of telling more, I think.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:23]:
Well, Scout David, I really want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today. David, if people want to find out more about you and the book, where should they go?

David Murray [00:37:30]:
They should go to a website called soccer dad story.com you can prerequisite ordered the book. The book is out April 14, but it’s available for pre order now wherever books are sold. And it’s available in the audible version, which as I said I just finished and I think it’s a fun listen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:46]:
Well, again, thank you both so much for your time today and for sharing your story. And scout, I wish you the best as you move into the next phase of your existence post soccer. Now you can sit and watch soccer and enjoy that instead of being on the field specifically, or at least having the pressure of being on a D1 team.

Scout Murray [00:38:07]:
Exactly. Exactly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:09]:
Well, I wish you both the best.

Scout Murray [00:38:10]:
Thank you so much.

David Murray [00:38:11]:
Thanks so much for having us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:13]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:38:43]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers Messengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world too now Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Why Admitting When You’re Wrong Strengthens Your Relationship

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Hey dads! Welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, your quick, practical guide to building a stronger bond with your daughter—one honest, intentional moment at a time. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we’re talking about a powerful but often uncomfortable truth: why admitting when you’re wrong actually strengthens your relationship with your daughter.

We’re dads. We want to protect, guide, and lead. And sometimes—whether out of pride, stress, or habit—we act like we always need to have it all together. But here’s the thing: your daughter doesn’t need you to be perfect. She needs you to be real.

So in the next five minutes, I’ll share why admitting your mistakes builds trust, how to do it without undermining your role as a parent, and what it teaches your daughter about confidence, humility, and respect.

Why Owning Your Mistakes Matters

When you admit you were wrong, you’re showing your daughter that:

  • It’s okay to be human.
  • You value honesty over ego.
  • Respect is a two-way street.

And most importantly, you’re teaching her that accountability is a strength—not a weakness.

Because one day, she’ll make a mistake. And what you’ve modeled will shape how she responds to it.

What Happens When We Pretend We’re Always Right?

  • It creates distance.
  • It teaches her that making a mistake means losing worth.
  • It can leave her feeling dismissed, unheard, or frustrated.

But when we say something as simple as, “I was wrong, and I’m sorry,” something amazing happens—walls come down, and trust goes up.

3 Practical Ways to Own Your Mistakes as a Dad

1. Call It Out Clearly

Don’t bury your apology in excuses. Keep it simple and direct.

  • “I was wrong to raise my voice earlier. That wasn’t fair to you.”
  • “I misunderstood what you were saying, and I jumped to conclusions. I’m sorry.”

The more direct and sincere you are, the more powerful your words become.

2. Share What You Learned from the Mistake

Your apology becomes even more valuable when it shows growth.

  • “I’ve been really stressed, but that’s no excuse for snapping. I need to manage that better.”
  • “Next time, I’ll make sure I listen before I react.”

You’re not just saying sorry—you’re showing her what it looks like to learn from failure.

3. Invite Openness in Return

By being vulnerable first, you create a space where your daughter feels safe doing the same.

You can say:

  • “Have you ever felt like that too?”
  • “What do you think I could’ve done better?”

It shifts the dynamic from “dad talking at daughter” to “dad growing with daughter.”

Quick Takeaways: Start Today!

Here’s your challenge:
The next time you realize you overreacted, misjudged, or made a mistake—say it. Clearly. Out loud. And mean it.

  • Own your part.
  • Keep it simple and sincere.]
  • Use it to model growth, not guilt.

Your daughter doesn’t need a perfect dad. She needs one who’s willing to grow, to own his missteps, and to treat her with the same respect he expects in return.

Because when you admit you’re wrong, you’re not losing authority—you’re gaining something far more powerful: trust.

That’s it for today’s Dad Connections in 5. If this spoke to you, share it with another dad who wants to lead with humility and strength. Until next time—keep showing up, keep growing, and keep leading with love.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Building Brotherhood: How WeBus Connects Dads for Support and Growth

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Fatherhood doesn’t come with a manual—but the journey is deeply rewarding, especially when you’re intentional about connecting with your daughters. In a recent episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Wes Piatt and Chris Roness—two dedicated dads and founders of WeBus International—to dig deep into the realities, challenges, and incredible rewards of raising daughters.

One of the main themes woven throughout this heartfelt episode is intentional presence. Both Wes and Chris reflect on their own meaningful moments with their daughters, highlighting how vital it is to be truly present. As Chris shares, “It’s those moments where they come to me because dad’s got the answer… it’s all about being present with my kids.” Wes echoes this commitment by intentionally setting aside daily time to let his daughters choose activities, stressing that, “Whatever they want to do, I’m going to be a part of it.”

The episode doesn’t shy away from the hard parts either. Both guests open up about mistakes and moments of failure, offering reassurance that vulnerability and honest communication are essential. Chris tells a story about miscommunicating with his daughter about their schedule and how owning the mistake, genuinely apologizing, and learning from it turned it into a powerful teaching moment. Wes reinforces that failure is not only inevitable but also an opportunity for growth, both as a father and for teaching his daughters resilience.

Another profound theme is connection among fathers. Wes shares his personal struggles during a challenging time and how reaching out to other dads led to the creation of WeBus—a supportive community where men can share experiences (not unsolicited advice) and lift each other up. Through this network, fathers form bonds, share practical solutions, and most importantly, realize they’re not alone on this path.

The episode wraps up with actionable wisdom: be present, cherish powerful moments, communicate openly, and seek connection—both with your children and other dads. As Wes and Chris emphasize, it’s about being the man and the example you want your daughters to look up to.

Whether you’re looking for inspiration, a reminder that imperfection is part of the journey, or simply some practical dad-to-dad guidance, this episode is packed with genuine stories and strategies. Tune in to the “Dad and Daughter Connection” for insights that will help you become the dad your daughter needs—and maybe find a brotherhood along the way.

Ready to listen? Find the episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com and take the next step on your fatherhood journey.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]:
Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week. I love being able to reconnect with you, to talk with you, to be on this journey that we’re both on together in raising our daughters and building those strong connections that we want to have with our daughters. One step at a time. Because none of us are thrown into fatherhood with that manual, per se. We have to learn it along the way. And it is so important to have strong connections with our daughters, and especially our daughters, because of that bond that happens between a father and a daughter and all of the research that shows the power of the relationship between the father and the daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:36]:
So every week, I love being able to talk with you, to walk with you on this path that you’re on, but also introduce you to other dads that are doing their best to be the best dads they can be. And we got two great guests today. We’ve got Wes Pyatta and Chris Ronas are here. And we’re gonna be talking to them not only about being fathers of daughters. Cause Wes has two daughters himself and Chris has three daughters. And we’re also, though, going to talk about their new venture, their new business that they’ve been working on for a bit now that is called Webus International. And we’re gonna be talking about that as well. So we’ll learn a little bit more about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]:
So, Wes, Chris, thanks so much for joining us today.

Wes Piatt [00:02:23]:
Heck, yeah. Thanks for having us on.

Chris Roness [00:02:25]:
Yeah, man, thanks for having us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
This is the dad and Daughter Connection. And I think one of the things that I’d love to ask you first is as you think about the relationships with your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Wes Piatt [00:02:39]:
Man, I had some pretty amazing moments with both of My daughters, they were born early and both in the NICU for a few months. And I remember there was specifically one moment with my daughter Joey where we had a rough time in the parking lot right before we went in and just kind of soaking in the extreme nature of everything we were dealing with and our first child and all this stuff. And I’ve got my hands in the little incubator and I’m trying to change her diaper on this little tiny, tiny human. I mean, she was the size of my hand. And the nurse walks over and goes, oh, let me show you how to do that with one hand. In that moment, I was so grateful for all the time that we had in the nicu, all the time that we were going to get in the nicu, because I felt like I got like a. You said we don’t have a manual for being a. I felt like they gave me a manual on so many things.

Wes Piatt [00:03:26]:
I was in the NICU both with Joey and with June because June was also born early. And having that time going into the nicu, June and being actually excited about it, knowing she was going to be fine, and then knowing I was going to learn even more from these amazing nurses that were there for 20, 30, 40 years teaching me how to do all these little things that most dads don’t get. It was an amazing, not necessarily like moment in time, but I guess like per se, but, but amazing time within their lives where I learned like, man, bad things can really lead to some pretty awesome stuff.

Chris Roness [00:03:58]:
Wow, dude, that’s powerful, man. Dude, Chris, that’s hard. You want me to just pick one? I’ve been blessed to have millions of them. And I think if there’s a theme about any one of them, it started just like Wes was talking about. From the day they were born until even today, Even with my 12 year old who’s doing the pre teen thing, it’s those moments where they come to me because dad’s got the answer, you know, they’re coming to me as a sign of strength and all the things and. And to me it’s feedback. To me, the second that I got my first daughter, the doctor handed her to me. He goes, $150 a month.

Chris Roness [00:04:30]:
And I was like, what is this? My bill? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, $150 a month. That’s how much you need to put in the bank every month for this child. So that someday down the road, whether it’s education or a wedding or something meaningful to them, you’ve got that Money set aside to give them a good quality life. But it was the awe of having this kid in my hand and still realizing it’s so much more than that. It’s so much more than that. And, and for the kids, like this 12 year old now who doesn’t even know that I’ve been putting $150 a month towards her. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not about some sort of material thing. It’s those moments where, like we talked about that bond that we’ve had through all those little moments where they’ve come to dad because Dad’s the answer.

Chris Roness [00:05:12]:
Even at 12, it’s not exactly the same conversation. It’s not a hug, it’s not. Whatever. She loves Benson Boone now, man. Like, she just loves this dude. She loves to sing. She loves to sing his songs. And so at nighttime we connect around his videos.

Chris Roness [00:05:27]:
And that’s my moment to just give her space so that she can say whatever she wants to say. And every single time that I provide that opportunity, she capitalizes on it and she’ll say, hey, Dada, let’s talk about this or let’s talk about that. And she’ll just start going and it’s awesome. So to me, it’s those special moments where they just, they need me. And for me, that same moment was recognizing that I had to be the best human, best man I could be because I’ve got three daughters and at the time, no sons, and now I have a son. But regardless, my thought was I need to be the best example of a man I can be for them so that someday they’ll bring me home three awesome sons.

Wes Piatt [00:06:01]:
Word. That’s it right there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]:
So what I’m hearing both of you say, I mean outside of those first moments, is being intentional being intentional with your time, being intentional with the moments that you do have with your daughters. So talk to me about what are some intentional ways that now you’ve worked to or you’re working on strengthening that bond with your daughters. Even during challenging times, man, I make.

Wes Piatt [00:06:27]:
Sure that every day we do something intentional together. I literally just posted this on my Instagram this morning about how I make sure every single day my phone is away and we’re doing something that they want to do. What do you guys want to do? And Dad’s coming along for the ride. Let’s go do it. And it’s not something I had pre planned or something I want to do or are going to lead to even a goal at the end of it. It’s just Whatever they want to do, and I’m going to be a part of it.

Chris Roness [00:06:51]:
Yeah, that’s good, Chris. One thing I didn’t disclose that I should have is we actually had four daughters, but one of them, at 37 weeks, didn’t make it. And that was a really hard time as a parent and as a husband. But also, at the time, I was a senior leader in the Air Force running a unit, and I had a lot going on. But what that child taught me in that moment was the power of a moment. And I realized I was constantly like, in a minute, kid, I got to finish this thing first, or I got to finish that thing, or, I’ll be right there. Just give me one second. I got to finish up this thing.

Chris Roness [00:07:22]:
And it was always a thing that I always had to finish up because I was doing important work, right. As a dad, not realizing that the important work was right in front of me. And so now, as a result of that powerful lesson that I got from my daughter, Ava, was her name is. Her name was the power of a moment. So now, to me, being intentional is remembering that once this moment’s gone, it’s fleeting. Like I’m never going to get it back. So when my child comes to me with a picture that they’ve drawn, and I’m in the middle of 500 things that I feel are super important that have got to be done right now, I can catch myself and go, this is what’s important. Show me this picture.

Chris Roness [00:07:58]:
Let’s be intentional about this moment. Because once the moment’s gone, you can’t get it back. And I’ve been able to do that with everything. It totally has changed my perspective on everything, and I feel has made me a much better father because I’m much more present with my kids, with everything. I mean, now I’m involved in everything they do, and I don’t want to miss moment for that only reason. And life has actually been so much better and more forward. And guess what? All those things that I thought were important, they weren’t, and they still got done.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]:
They definitely do get done. Even though at times in our minds we’re like, oh, oh, no. You know, we gotta get it done. But I. I completely hear you there. And there’s been many moments in my own life that that’s definitely happened, and moments where, as you kind of said, you make the wrong decision and you look back later and you’re like, ah, dang. You know, I shouldn’t have done that. So I.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]:
I guess one question that I would have is none always right. And then we’re always going to make mistakes. We’re not infallible. So what’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communications with your daughters?

Chris Roness [00:08:59]:
That’s good. I got one just yesterday, a simple one. But we have a very busy schedule with all the kids activities. They’re all, of course, doing something different. And I communicated to one of my daughters that today was going to be a day that she was going to ride the bus to go home with her brother while I took another kid to an appointment. And yesterday she thought was the day, not today. And so as I was picking them all up yesterday, she went and got on the bus instead of getting in the vehicle. And I had to send one of her sisters to get her.

Chris Roness [00:09:31]:
And her sister was a little fiery.

Wes Piatt [00:09:32]:
She’s like, come on, you gotta go.

Chris Roness [00:09:33]:
Get off the bus. And she was. She’s a very. She has a very big heart and wears her heart on her sleeve. And she just got to the vehicle just completely upset. Dad, you told me today was the day I had the option to go home. And on that I was like, okay, guess what? I confused you. I miscommunicated.

Chris Roness [00:09:50]:
And I just took the time to explain to her how I made the mistake and that I was going to own it and that we were going to move forward though, you know, hey, so this is on me. I told you about something, but the something that I told you about doesn’t actually happen until tomorrow. And I wasn’t strong enough in my communication about what we were doing today. And so I gave her genuine apology by saying the three things that go into a genuine apology. Hey, what I did wrong, right? That I’m genuinely sorry about it, and what I’m going to do about it in the future to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Hey, I’m going to communicate better about what we’re doing today. Then I’ll go into what we’re doing tomorrow, but I’ll follow it back up with what we’re doing today just so we don’t make this mistake again. And the power of that conversation was she went from completely upset and hurt and emotionally distraught to just, okay, I’m good.

Wes Piatt [00:10:35]:
I can’t come up with a single one. But I think for me, the biggest takeaway is what I do after I mess up. It’s that I go back and I tell them I’m sorry. I explain what I did. I go through exactly what switch has talked About Chris just talked about that. It’s. I’m not perfect and it’s okay not to be perfect as long as you do these few things after you’re not perfect and you learn from it and you get better from it and you move on from it and we grow from it. It’s like, I want them when you talk about failure, they’re super into gymnastics.

Wes Piatt [00:11:07]:
That’s like their sport now. And. And we talk about failure constantly, how much we look forward to it and we can’t wait for it. And when it does, it’s opportunity to get better. And it’s like there is no such thing as bad failure. And even when dad messes up, like, look, I’ve been around this earth for almost 40 years now, like, I’m still screwing up the most basic things and that’s going to happen forever. And that’s totally okay. I think that that’s the most important thing.

Wes Piatt [00:11:29]:
And they know that failure is good and failure is okay as long as we learn from it and do it. What Chris was talking about in recovery, I guess you could say from the failure or whatever you want to call.

Chris Roness [00:11:37]:
It, we call it debrief in our family. Debrief what we learned.

Wes Piatt [00:11:41]:
Let’s go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]:
I mentioned that the two of you a organization called webus International. So talk to me about webus. What is it? And talk to me about those origin stories. What inspired you to start the organization and how did your role as dads influence the vision?

Wes Piatt [00:12:00]:
I’ve told this story now probably a dozen times and I’ve cried every single time. I’m going to do my best to hold it together because it is we bus is what has kept me alive. And there was a moment. I own a CrossFit gym, small business owner, my wife as a teacher and for context, I used to be a firefighter. So I was a full time firefighter before I opened up the CrossFit gym. And I was doing both for a little bit where I was traveling down, doing my shifts, coming back up, coaching all the classes, traveling down and doing the thing. And I had a call, I went on that made me decide like, oh, I’m actually going to follow this path instead of this one. And I really regretted that during COVID because my business was getting shut down, all my members were leaving and everything seemed like it was like, man, I just made so many bad choices up to this point.

Wes Piatt [00:12:49]:
Like, why? Also for context, me and my sister grew up with just a mom and she happened just so happened to be bipolar and have schizophrenic episodes. So we had quite the upbringing. And during COVID I was having a really hard time controlling my reactions, controlling just the simplest things would set me off. And I. And I was just so upset with all the choices I had made and where I put my family, kind of, in a sense. And I started to get nervous. And maybe, actually this was a bipolar beginning to show itself in me. And maybe I had what my mom had.

Wes Piatt [00:13:24]:
And at the time, we just had. We had one child, and we were about to have our other one. And I was thinking to myself, you know, if you off yourself, these kids won’t remember you, and your wife can remarry. Find somebody who’s not in the financial situation you’re in. Find somebody who doesn’t have these triggers that you do and doesn’t have all of this background. And you can actually, actually, really, maybe your job was really just to bring these kids here and to peace out. And I was really considering it. And I was considering it so much so that I actually created a list of things that I had to do before I did the thing, because me and Switch were in the military.

Wes Piatt [00:14:01]:
I was in the Air Force as well for four years. And I was along with Switch, but I had quite a few friends who had committed suicide after getting out of the military. And that’s what Switch does, is his other. This is where I usually start to get choked up a little bit with his other company that he has called. You Matter, and you Matter focuses on ending veteran suicide, which is obviously an epidemic that’s happening around the world, and something that we need to work on and we are working on. But I digress. I was mad at every single one of them that did that because they didn’t call me first and they didn’t just go, hey, I’m struggling. I just wanted to let you know maybe you could help.

Wes Piatt [00:14:36]:
And so one of the things on my list that I had to do is I had to reach out to people and let them know I’m not doing good. This is where I’m at, just letting you know. And I was too nervous to do that with the people that were closest to me because I didn’t want my life to feel different. I wanted to be able to go to my family and my staff and everybody else and for things to be like, hey, we’re doing our best. Like, keep it going. You know, like, we rock and roll. And not for them to be like, oh, poor you, and how can I help you? And all that. I didn’t want that.

Wes Piatt [00:15:03]:
So I reached out to a bunch of strangers on Instagram, a bunch of people that I kind of know, but don’t really know in the CrossFit space, and just told them, like, hey, I’m struggling. I don’t know if you’re feeling the same, too, owning a CrossFit gym or being a CrossFit coach or any of that kind of stuff. And I just got back nothing. But, yes, I am struggling. This is tough. I’ve actually thought about doing that as well. And, like, I’m, like, I had multiple people go, thank you for reaching out to me, because I’m actually thinking about doing that. And this is just serendipitous.

Wes Piatt [00:15:30]:
This is amazing. This is happening. And we just started meeting on this app called Marco Polo that my wife was using, actually, with her college roommate friends to stay in touch. And it’s a really cool app that you can send a FaceTime video to any, anybody, and they can respond with another FaceTime video whenever they have time. And there’s a bunch of other cool stuff you can do with it. But I was like, hey, would you guys want a battle buddy check? Let’s just check in on each other, like, once a week and just keep the momentum going. And that slowly turned into over a hundred dudes around the world that call themselves We Bus Dudes and talk vulnerably on this app called Marco Polo about their struggles. And.

Wes Piatt [00:16:05]:
And it’s become an amazing thing, because right when we started it, we had one rule, and that rule was that you could not give advice. And when we say advice, objectively, what we mean that is something that you actually haven’t experienced or been through yourself, but you feel you could maybe help somebody else out with. And this is what we call the bro advice. You call your buddy up. You’re struggling with this thing. They’ve never been through it. They have no idea what you’re going through, but they’re like, oh, bro, here’s what you’re going to do. My cousin went through this thing, and here’s the best way to fix it, and blah, blah, blah.

Wes Piatt [00:16:32]:
And you’re just like, that’s not what I want from you right now. What I want from you is just to listen and to hear me and to sympathize and empathize with me, and that’s all I really need. And so we made one rule. We said you can only share experiences. So you, come on, share your experience you’re going through. For example, I’m going nuts. I can’t get my Girls to get dressed and eat breakfast and out of the house in time and to school in time without it being just an absolute nightmare. Anybody else experiencing this as well, and you’ll have like 50 dudes that will come on there, all varying ages, all kids of all ages, all been through the gamut and all coming with experiences of how they solved it in completely different ways.

Wes Piatt [00:17:12]:
Ways. So now you have this experience where these people are getting to go, hey, yeah, here’s how I did it. Here’s how I did it. Here’s how I did it. And then this guy just gets to go like, oh, maybe I’ll use that. Maybe I’ll use that. Maybe I’ll use none of it. Maybe I’ll use some of it.

Wes Piatt [00:17:24]:
And the idea is that they’re going, checking in to see, like, hey, I remember going through that. Where are you at now? Because I remember where I was at. And they check in. And so we both started in my garage on the floor, literally thinking about killing myself to where it’s at now where I. We just did our last we bus camp in South Dakota and just looking around at all the guys there and all the things we were doing to Mount Rushmore, it was just. How do you go from being at that point to being at that point and within a relatively short amount of time? And the answer to that is with the brotherhood. We bus is just straight dudes that want to be better humans to make this world a better place. And the only way that they’re doing that is by just sharing their traumas and their experiences with each other and being vulnerable and being open.

Wes Piatt [00:18:10]:
And I’m very proud of it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:12]:
Can definitely tell, I guess in thinking about that and thinking about what you went from, from where you were to where you are today, and you think about the business that you’ve created. I know that webus emphasizes collaboration, connection. And I guess as you think about that and what you’re learning from other dads in relation to your own fatherhood journey itself, how does that collaboration and connection that you’re do, that you’re building in the organization, align with the way that you’re either raising your daughters to interact with you or interact with others.

Wes Piatt [00:18:45]:
It goes back to what Chris said earlier. We’re trying to get dads to be the people they want their girls to marry.

Chris Roness [00:18:51]:
Yeah. We have a kind of a little mantra on the webus. We. We tell folks, get off the struggle bus and get on the we bus because we’re helping the world be a better place. One dad at A time and the power of the shared experience concept organically. Like, it’s not like we designed it to do what it’s doing beyond that, but the secondary and tertiary effects of what’s happened is you don’t see any really heavy discuss about beliefs regarding faith or politics or anything like that. But that’s not to say that those things don’t come up. They come up through a shared experience.

Chris Roness [00:19:22]:
Hey, I’m going through something. I’m struggling with this thing I just saw, or I’m struggling with this direction I want to go with my faith. Does anybody have an experience with this? And then those folks will either break off and have a separate conversation on what we call a solo polo, or we even have topic rooms now, where, for example, we’ve got one called the workshop. And in the workshop, this is where dads have unique skills of handyman skills, whatever those might be. You can go in and go, hey, guys, I’m working on this today. Let me show you how I’m doing it in case you ever come across this, and vice versa. Maybe somebody is a dad now that didn’t have a dad to show them how to fix a flat tire on a bicycle. Well, you could go to YouTube and look up that stuff.

Chris Roness [00:20:00]:
But the difference is on webus, you go to the workshop, you can go, hey, guys, I’m gonna fix this flat tire. And you’ve already got a group of guys that you’re connected to that will not only walk you through that, but they’ll walk you through how that connects to a life experience or a connection that you can have with your child by maybe walking your child through how you’re doing that at the exact same time, things like that. And it’s just really powerful because the other organic thing that we’ve discovered with this is that men are coming out of the woodwork to join us on we bus because of this shared experience. And one of the interesting things that happens right off the bat is a new dad. Well, he’s just going through it and he’ll listen to what the other dads are saying for a while first before he even says anything. And then that dude will come on and just let it all out. And you can watch them. You can watch them just as they’re letting it out.

Chris Roness [00:20:44]:
And that becomes the beginning of the first step to how they’re going to be a better dad. Because now they’re open to gathering all this shared experience from everybody else and learning in a whole nuanced way that is not deliberate. It’s not constructed, it’s not academic. It is just life as it’s happening in everybody’s lives as we learn from each other. It’s powerful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:05]:
You know, in thinking about those experiences where you’ve seen dads unburden themselves and be able to share the things that they’re going through, can you share a moment for each of you where your connection with another dad through webus had an impact on your own fatherhood journey?

Wes Piatt [00:21:23]:
Oh, my gosh, dude. So many. Every day there’s something in there that we connect with with somebody. Like just the other day, I was connecting with Nick on CrossFit stuff and he tried his first CrossFit class and he was so nervous, and I was giving him all the ins and outs on how to do it and where to go and who to talk to and where not to stand and where to stand. And it’s like a little like, insiders, insider. And that’s what, you know, Chris was talking about with the. These groups that we have in these, like, breakout rooms. So you have like the main we bus and then all these breakout rooms that people can find their little niche in.

Wes Piatt [00:21:53]:
And when they get in that niche, they really get to work through whatever that little thing is that they’re struggling with, with people that are more connected to that little thing too. Nick was really struggling just with wanting to improve his fitness a little bit more. And he just like, you know, I’m stuck at a wall. I don’t know where to go from here. And there’s like five dudes that came rushing in with, like, experience up the wazoo to be like, like, well, here’s like 15 different things that you can do and choose what you want. We’re here to support whatever way you need. That’s rock and roll.

Chris Roness [00:22:20]:
Yeah. I’m telling you, there’s like this deeper level. I can’t point to one exactly, like, one particular thing because there’s so many things that I’ve learned from all these guys across the gamut. I mean, when I started on Webus, I wasn’t doing CrossFit, although I was familiar with the sport because we would do it when I was deployed in the military and I just retired from the military, had landed myself in a small town and was trying to find, like, we got spoiled in the military. Here’s the gym, here’s the everything you need right there on the base. And now I’m in this small town trying to find those same resources, and I couldn’t find them anywhere. And I was able to go on here and talk to these guys that did CrossFit and go, hey, tell me some more. Now, I do it regularly, and I’ve learned that for me, that particular sport isn’t something I do for the fitness.

Chris Roness [00:22:59]:
To me, fitness is the byproduct. I go to the gym for the community. But in that vein, like, one of the things that happens through these dialogues, as you start to learn more about these guys at a deeper level. And so Wes, we’ve known each other what, three years maybe?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:12]:
Yeah, right.

Chris Roness [00:23:13]:
Well, check this out. I just learned. I was yesterday years old when I learned that Wes plays the drum. And it’s all because we started a recent topic group called the Bandwagon, where guys that play musical instruments or just want to talk about the songs that they enjoy can get in that chat room and play music together or talk about music or whatever. And Wes is like, yeah, here’s my trap set. I’m like, what, dude? You play the drums?

Wes Piatt [00:23:33]:
Like.

Chris Roness [00:23:33]:
Like, we’ve been very close. We’ve had very deep conversations, and I never knew this. Here’s another example. One of the guys on weboss is a good friend of mine that I went through basic training with over 20, like almost 30 years ago. And me and this guy have talked regularly for 30 years. And it was not until he joined Webus that I learned he was a Batman fanatic. Had no idea. 30 years I knew the guy, had no idea.

Chris Roness [00:23:55]:
He loved Batman. And that’s kind of what happens. You get into this level of understanding somebody just through shared experience on a different perspective or scale. And there’s all these resources right there for you. If you just. One of the things we do is what we call rfi. Request for information. Hey, guys, I’m getting ready to make a decision.

Chris Roness [00:24:11]:
Has anybody dealt with this? And it’s powerful.

Wes Piatt [00:24:13]:
Yeah, that’s how I got my financial planner, actually.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]:
As interacting with dads in this way and as you’re listening and you’re taking in all that they’re experiencing, I know that you’ve got dads and non dads that are in the community that. But in talking with the dads, what are some of the challenges, the unique challenges that you’re seeing that these dads are collectively having? And how is your organization working to either connect those dads together or help them to be able to work through those in different ways? What have you learned through this venture that you’ve been on?

Chris Roness [00:24:49]:
And I’ll offer one right now. The number one thing that we see consistent is that dads feel like, they’re doing it alone. They feel like they’re in it alone, that they’ve got to be the strong horse for the family. They’ve got to push through. They’ve got to do all the things, and they can’t just. Like what Wes was saying, like, they can’t let those people know that they’re going through a moment, or at least they think that, because they have to be the strong horse. And. And when they come into the we bus, we see that every single time.

Chris Roness [00:25:17]:
And I would offer that there’s a byproduct of using the app that we use with Marco Polo that everybody has benefited from because they mention it. And that is, as dads, we want to be problem solvers right off the bat. That’s our job. Hey, you got a problem? I heard my wife talk about this. I’m gonna go fix this. I heard my kid talk about this thing. I’m gonna go fix this thing. But especially as dads of daughters, you leave the video.

Chris Roness [00:25:38]:
Guess what? In order to listen to that video, you’ve got to literally sit there and watch it and listen. And the byproduct is we’ve all become much better listeners, and we’re all present as a result of that. And I think that’s one of the things that we all struggle with as dads is how not to just be problem solvers, but to be present and listening and to realize that we’re not in it alone, that there are other dads going through it too.

Wes Piatt [00:25:59]:
Do.

Chris Roness [00:25:59]:
And. And we can all connect around nothing but just that singular thing of fatherhood. And it’s just amazing.

Wes Piatt [00:26:05]:
Yeah. I mean, there’s so many things. And I think this is why we created. We call them dojos, and they’re these little breakout groups that we have. And we have dads that are going through divorces. We have dads that are thinking about getting a divorce and trying not to. We’ve got dads that are losing their job and trying to find a new job. We’ve got dads that are trying to get in shape.

Wes Piatt [00:26:23]:
We’ve got dads that have. Were in shape and now are trying to get back in shape. We’ve got dads that are trying to do everything. And so by creating these smaller group, one of the things that Chris really hammered on was Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and the amount of people you can actually have in your life and actually communicate well with and make sure you’re creating actual deep connections with. It’s got to be small. So we Keep those groups relatively small, eight to 10 people max. And we keep the people that are in there experts. Like, we gotta have somebody in that group that’s an expert in this thing in some way and can give you sound advice and help you out with where you really need it the most.

Chris Roness [00:26:56]:
And to piggyback on that a little bit, it’s not just about the dad that’s struggling. It’s about the dad that’s achieving high goals like Wes talked about. I mean, one of our dads started out as an alcoholic three years ago and weighed, like, almost 300 pounds. The dude has lost, like, 150 pounds, and now he’s an Ironman athlete.

Wes Piatt [00:27:11]:
We call him 75 heart because he’s gone through that so many times, and he’s become such a different human being. It’s insane. It’s literally. It’s like biggest loser transformation, but, like, in a healthy way now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:25]:
I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I give you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as dads. You ready?

Wes Piatt [00:27:33]:
Yeah. Good.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Chris Roness [00:27:39]:
Love.

Wes Piatt [00:27:39]:
I was going to ask if I could use loving kindness as one word, but yes, love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Wes Piatt [00:27:48]:
That it goes really fast and so be present. That’s the only thing I found universally true.

Chris Roness [00:27:53]:
Yeah. It’s the same as, hey, 18 years. Goes really quick. Capitalize on the moment. The power of that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:00]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love to do together?

Wes Piatt [00:28:05]:
Oh, my gosh. Going to the beach or going skateboarding. Anything that has to do with activity, like just being. We got a big trampoline out back. It’s like 10 times a day. Can we go jump on the trampoline? You know, like, yeah, let’s go. But anything physical activity wise, they just want to go do it.

Chris Roness [00:28:18]:
Yeah, it’s the same with my daughters. They. They are all very active and. And very musically talented. One of the things that we all do together is we. We sing and play music together on our church youth group, and it’s a blast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]:
If you could give your daughters one lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Wes Piatt [00:28:34]:
You’re not perfect. Life’s not perfect, and that’s okay.

Chris Roness [00:28:37]:
I would say choose the person that you want to be with and the life you want to have very carefully. Those will be the two most important choices you ever make in your life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:46]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad.

Wes Piatt [00:28:51]:
Oh, man. I would say that failure is okay. I’ve learned honestly that because, like, I’ve said that my whole life. Yeah, failure is great. You learn from it. You grew from it. Let’s go. Hoorah.

Wes Piatt [00:29:00]:
You know, and then. But when you fail, you’re really upset about it. You don’t really learn from it. You don’t really take it. But I’ve really learned that. No, guess what, bro? You’re gonna fail hard no matter how much you prepare. And that’s good as long as, like what we talked about before, you come back and repair it and do what you need to do.

Chris Roness [00:29:16]:
The greatest growth and connection happens when you step out of your comfort zone. Man, changing diapers, the way I grew up was a mom’s job, but I got all into that. And the same thing with braiding hair and all the things is that big tough guy stuff. No, but man, the magic that happens with that. And that’s where the connections are at and that’s where the growth occurred.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Wes Piatt [00:29:46]:
I wouldn’t. I would just share experiences.

Chris Roness [00:29:48]:
The advice I’m going to give comes from a good friend of mine, Lindsay Ko, who lost his daughter to suicide. And I asked him what would he have done differently and he said, I would have been present more often. I would have just been present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]:
Well, Wes, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing what you are doing with your own daughters, but also what you’re doing with Webus. And if people want to find out more about Webus, where should they go?

Wes Piatt [00:30:11]:
Www.webusint.com and fill out the interest interest form. You’ll see it on the menu bar up top. And then our buddy Jeremy or Alan will reach out to you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:23]:
Well, again, I just want to say thank you. Thank you both for all that you’re doing to be able to connect dads with other dads, men with other men. It’s so important. It’s so important for men to have those connections in their life. And I really appreciate all the work that you’re doing with that and thank you for sharing your own journeys with your daughters. And I wish you all the best.

Wes Piatt [00:30:42]:
Same to you, Chris. Thanks for doing what you do in this space and keeping it going for so long. I really appreciate it.

Chris Roness [00:30:48]:
Absolutely, dude. Keep staying awesome. Chris, we really appreciate this, man. And we look forward to seeing all the other videos that are coming after this one and the ones before for sure. That’s a wrap for this episode of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:58]:
The dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:31:28]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents Bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes.

Musical Performer [00:31:58]:
By just like a dynamite blast Calling.

Musical Performer [00:32:03]:
Astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to.

Musical Performer [00:32:11]:
Them.

Musical Performer [00:32:15]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Performer [00:32:20]:
Be the best that you can be.

From Struggles to Strength: A Father’s Path to Connection and Recovery

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In a recent episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Matt Strain, a devoted father and passionate advocate for intentional parenting. Matt’s candid conversation offers a heartfelt look at the ups and downs of fatherhood, highlighting the power of presence, vulnerability, and shared experiences in building deep and lasting relationships with our daughters.

Learning As You Go

One of the central themes in the episode is the recognition that there is no instruction manual for fatherhood. Matt and Dr. Lewis both emphasize that every dad is figuring it out as they go—making mistakes, learning, and growing alongside their children. The podcast exists as a toolbox, filled with stories and insights from other dads, to remind us that we are not alone in this journey.

Overcoming Personal Struggles

Matt’s story is notably powerful for its honesty. He opens up about his journey with sobriety—how a transformative conversation with his doctor prompted him to quit drinking when his daughter was just an infant. Through pain, persistence, and the support of his family, Matt rebuilt his life, learning healthier ways to cope and connect. His journey is a testament to the resilience that many fathers quietly cultivate and the courage it takes to make hard changes for the sake of our children.

In sharing his struggles with vulnerability, Matt models an important lesson for other dads: you don’t have to be perfect, but you do have to be present and honest. This authenticity builds trust, showing daughters that their fathers are not only protectors, but also humans who strive, stumble, and get back up.

Building Connection Through Shared Experience

A highlight of the episode is Matt’s story of bonding with his daughter through physical activity, especially cycling and preparing for triathlons. Rather than imposing his interests, Matt encourages dads to meet their daughters where they are—even if that means learning to love something new. Whether it’s cheering at a dance recital or joining Girls on the Run, the key is to actively support the things that make them light up.

Takeaway for Dads

Matt’s journey reinforces a simple but profound message: being a great dad isn’t about perfection—it’s about being present, listening without judgment, and building memories together.

This episode is filled with wisdom, inspiration, and practical insights for any father who wants to deepen his connection with his daughter. Listen to the full conversation and discover how you too can strengthen one of the most important relationships in your life.

Subscribe to the “Dad and Daughter Connection” and join a community of fathers growing, learning, and connecting every week.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on our relationships with our daughter, working to build those strong relationships that we want to have with them one step at a time. You know, there are no rule books.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]:
There are no guidebooks. There’s nothing that we get. When you become a father, whether it’s a father of a son or a father of a daughter, you gotta learn along the way. And this podcast exists to be able to give you some of those tools for your toolbox, allow for you to be able to learn from others that have come before you, and allow for you an opportunity to be able to build some resiliency, some other tools to allow for you to be able to know you’re not alone and that there are so many other dads out there that struggle, just like you do, to be that dad that you want to be. And my hope every week is that you have an opportunity to be able to take some things away from each of these conversations, to learn from our guests, to. To allow for you to be able to gain that insight that will allow for you to be that father in the future that you see yourself as being. Today we got another great guest. Matt Strain is with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]:
Matt’s a father of two. He has a son and a daughter, and we’re gonna be talking about his relationship with his daughter and some of the things that they’ve been doing together to be able to strengthen that bond along the way. But as always, we’re gonna get to know Matt a little bit more as well. Matt, thanks so much for being here today.

Matt Strain [00:02:25]:
Oh, thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
You know, we always start off our conversation with some opportunities to be able to get to know you and your relationship with your daughter a little bit more. And I guess, first and foremost, as you think about your relationship With Lily, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with her thus far and what made it so special?

Matt Strain [00:02:44]:
I think a lot of it. For a lot of us who had young kids, when the COVID lockdown hit, we were all stuck in the house really, really close to our kids. A lot closer than most parents get under normal circumstances. But I think one of the moments that really, really sticks with me was after things finally slowed down and we opened things back up. After doing all of first grade and some of kindergarten remotely, my daughter went back to school in person. And it was really hard for her because she had forgotten how to interact with other kids. Now at this point, we were walking to school every day because her school was only about half a mile away. And I would walk her to school, and more often than not, when I came to pick her up, she was just porn up.

Matt Strain [00:03:29]:
We would be upset, we would be crying, and I would ask her what’s wrong? And a large amount of it was just this lack of remembering how to socialize. One of the big arguments was, you know, at recess today, nobody wanted to play the game that I wanted to play. And we went through this period of about two months where I had to remind her that, you know, but did you volunteer to play anybody else’s games that they wanted to play? And she was like, well, no, I wanted to play my game. And I’m like, well, they feel the same way. And we had a lot of these conversations over the course of about six to eight weeks. And after about six to eight weeks, she started getting re socialized and re acclimated. And it wasn’t just one aha moment or big light bulb, but I think during those walks and those conversations, we got a little bit closer. And more importantly, she got to a point where she felt like she could trust me and talk to me and that I would, number one, listen.

Matt Strain [00:04:25]:
And not try to tell her what I thought, but listen to what she had to say and that she could rely on me to not judge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:32]:
You know, that’s so important, because being able to not judge and be able to just be there, be present, is something that is not always innately male. I’m going to say so many times men are programmed to fix things, and we jump right in with that answer. Instead of just being in the moment and listening. Talk to me about that for you. And whether being a father to a daughter, whether in that situation or in others, if you’ve had to reprogram yourself in any way, well, there’s been a.

Matt Strain [00:05:06]:
Lot of reprogramming of me since I became a father. I have a lovely partner in life. My wife, Angela, she is a doctor. Which is the reason why when my daughter was born A little over 11 years ago, I stepped away from my career as a chef and became a stay at home parent. We wanted to have a parent at home. And to be blunt, Dr. Money Trump Chef money. And we had a desire to pay the house note and the bills and that type of thing.

Matt Strain [00:05:31]:
So she kept working. And her focus is she works in psychiatry. And she has helped me along a lot. And one of the things that we do as a couple is that whenever one of us starts complaining about either something happening at work or in our social lives or with the kids or whatever else, at some point during the venting session, one of us will look up and say, honest question, are you looking for answers or did you just want to vent? And a lot of the time the answer is, I just want to complain. I just need somebody to complain to. And it was hard. It’s really, really hard because I’m like you. My instinct is, well, I know how you can fix this.

Matt Strain [00:06:10]:
I know what I would do in that situation, and you want to do that, but that’s not what that person needs at that moment. So a lot of it started long before we had kids. One of the things that happened shortly after my daughter was born and I stepped away from my career as a chef, that was the biggest change. About four months after my daughter was born, I went into a doctor’s appointment, and I’m a type 2 diabetic, so I regularly get blood work done. And my primary care physician noticed some abnormalities in my blood work and had me come back in to do an additional panel and brought me back in after those results came in to have a real serious conversation with me. And basically I went into the doctor and the doctor informed me that I was going to quit drinking that day. And I laughed and I said, oh, yeah, you mean cut down, right? And to her credit, my doctor pointed at my daughter, who at that point was a little over four months old, sitting in her little car seat asleep, thank heavens, during the doctor’s appointment, and said, that really depends. And I said, depends on what? And she said, it depends on if you have any intention of living to see her graduate high school.

Matt Strain [00:07:12]:
And I said, excuse me. And she explained that the way that my liver enzymes were so far out of whack that she was fairly certain that I was within a percentage point or two of being put on a transplant list and that I would probably die before I got one. And so I went home and quit drinking. It was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. I was a real jerk, I used to say for the first three or four months. My wife has informed me that it was closer to the first year. But at this point I am over 11 years without a drink. And that changed a lot of things for me.

Matt Strain [00:07:47]:
Having worked in the restaurant industry, drugs, alcohol, it’s all just part of the world. No one even looks twice at the idea of somebody sitting down and having three or four drinks before work. Especially when you’re somebody like me who was working in the kitchen, not out there dealing with people. Obviously it had gotten out of hand, but the thing that I wasn’t prepared for was that when I stopped drinking, I had to relearn how to function. I had no ability to control emotions whatsoever because I had spent years and years just numbing everything. So there was a really rocky period in there in the early part of my daughter’s life. Luckily, being as how this happened when she was four months old. Neither of my children have any memories of their dad when he was actively an alcoholic.

Matt Strain [00:08:35]:
They’ve only known me in recovery, which is a huge plus. But it really did prompt a lot of big changes in my life and learning new coping mechanisms, new ways to interact with people in the world and everything else. And I think that also really helped me become a better father because I was already in the process of making so many changes. It was really just one more thing added onto the pile.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:02]:
So I guess as you went through that journey for yourself and as you said, you had to go home and just stop. And for many men who may be in that situation where they either they were told that they need to and they, they don’t, or they think they need to and they struggle. Talk to me about that for yourself. And what allowed you to be able to be 11 years in, to be able to make that step for yourself as a man, as a father, to be able to stay consistent in this journey that you’ve been on?

Matt Strain [00:09:38]:
Well, in the beginning, I’m not going to lie, it was pure fear. I mean, I was terrified at that point. I was 42 years old. I was not ready to die. I had just become a father. I have this little tiny squiggling little bundle of love. I mean, we all remember that four to six month period. We’ve all blocked up the memories of the 3 o’ clock in the Morning, waking up and wishing for the sweet release of death or at the very least, a longer nap.

Matt Strain [00:10:03]:
And, I mean, I’d be lying if I told you I didn’t feel the urge to drink. I mean, it was there constantly. It helped that I have a really supportive family. One of the things that my wife and I did is we removed every bit of alcohol from this house, and it was two years before there was any alcohol of any kind in this house. And, I mean, we removed Nyquil, we removed vanilla extract, we removed cooking wines, everything. My wife, the only time she got to drink is if we were out to eat somewhere or if we had gone to a party or gone over to someone else’s house. She might have a little. But number one was that we got rid of the opportunity for it.

Matt Strain [00:10:44]:
I stopped carrying cash of any kind. I started doing everything that I do with nothing but a credit card. Because with credit cards, there are receipts, and with receipts, there’s accountability. That was a request that I made, not her. That I looked up and said, I need to do this for me. And again, after that initial period, I started to come alive again. I started doing things that I hadn’t done in decades, whether it was spending more time reading or, you know, going hiking in the woods again and getting outside, things that I just wasn’t doing and hadn’t been doing for the last 20 years and really started to enjoy living life. And after a while, it just became a personal challenge to realize that I’m stronger than this.

Matt Strain [00:11:33]:
Again, I hate to go back to those stereotypical I’m a man type mentalities, but it was, I’m not going to let this be. And I worked hard and I struggled. There’s no two ways about it. Like everyone who goes through this process, there were stumbles. There were stumbles. But one of the phrases that I use is a lot of time, you’ll hear people, people that will keep a list of, I’ve been sober for this many days, and then they stumble and they have a drink, and suddenly they’re like, well, I’ve undone the past six months worth of work, and the answer is no. No, you haven’t. You had one bad day.

Matt Strain [00:12:06]:
That doesn’t discount the six months prior to that. Unless you let it get up, dust yourself off, and get right back on the right path. After about two years, it became the new norm for me. One of the other big ones, and this was the hardest one for me, was that I realized that the best thing I could do was to be very, very public and open about the fact that I couldn’t drink. I let all my friends know. I let all of my family know because that made them help look out for me. And again, if you’ve informed your friends that I have a problem and I can’t drink and you find them still offering you drinks, newsflash, those are not your friends. Those are just drinking buddies.

Matt Strain [00:12:49]:
Your real friends are going to be like, oh, well then, yeah, let’s keep this away from you. And it makes a huge difference. One of the funniest stories. As you know, I’ve been involved with the National At Home dad Network for a number of years and they throw a convention every year. So it was in 2021, right after the COVID lockdown. We had skipped a year and done a virtual convention. And then we did an in person one in Cincinnati and we were doing our kickoff party, which was convention Eve, and it was at this Irish bar. And as an intro, after I had been sober for about probably close to five or six years, we were out to eat one day and they had some non alcoholic beers on the menu.

Matt Strain [00:13:31]:
And I thought, you know, I’m going to try one of these. I mean, I had been very nervous about doing it for years prior to that for the fear that this might trigger cravings or whatever else. But I felt pretty confident in my sobriety at that point. And also I was just buying a bottle at a restaurant. It’s not like it was here at the house. And we still had all the safety measures as far as credit cards and everything else in place and it was really tasty and it made me remember that I really like beer for the flavor, but that wasn’t what I was using to fuel my alcoholism. Honestly, beer just couldn’t get me where I needed to go. I was drinking hard liquor for that.

Matt Strain [00:14:06]:
And so I’ve begun drinking non alcoholic beer fairly regularly. So I’m standing at the bar as we’re getting ready for this kickoff party and I had asked the bartender if they had an non alcoholic beer and he was like, oh yeah. We just got in this new Lagunitas IPA that’s non alcoholic. And I’m like, great, I’d love to try one. And they brought one up and they popped open the bottle. And here I am holding a brown bottle of non alcoholic beer in my hand, taking a sip when somebody comes up the stairs. And it’s one of the other guys that comes to the convention regularly who’s a friend of mine, and he’s not a small man, he comes running across the floor of this second story restaurant. And I mean literally, I can hear the thumping and literally jumps in my face and is like, what the hell are you doing? And I’m like, it’s not alcoholic.

Matt Strain [00:14:53]:
And he’s like, oh, oh crap. I’m really sorry, man. And my immediate response was, no, don’t be sorry. I love that. Like that shows me that you actually care. But his thing was he had never seen me with a bottled non alcoholic beer. All the stuff that I drank was always in can. But the fact is having people that are willing to have your back at that level really does help because I think you’ll find that most of the people that care about you want you to do what’s good for you.

Matt Strain [00:15:21]:
And there are some people out there who can drink in moderation. I’m just not one of them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:25]:
So you’re 11 years in and your daughter is 11. And so I guess one question that I have is as she gets older, there’s going to be things that will be temptations for her. As your son gets older, you’ve gone through this yourself and how do you hope to have conversations with them about your journey and what’s brought you to where you are today and the decisions that they make in their lives?

Matt Strain [00:15:53]:
Well, we’ve already had some of those conversations early on. I mean, my wife enjoys a glass of wine every now and then, occasionally hard cider or mead. But literally she will pour herself a glass of mead with dinner one night and then put a cork in the bottle and put it in the fridge and it might sit there for like three, four, five days before she bothers pouring another one. I, on the other hand, didn’t understand why a bottle of Jameson had a screw top because once I opened it, I wasn’t stopping till it was empty. When they were younger, they were oblivious. They didn’t think anything of it. But as they’ve gotten older, they’ve noticed that mom will have a glass of wine or we’ll have company over and everybody will be having a glass of wine. But I don’t.

Matt Strain [00:16:33]:
And we’ve told them up front that dad’s problem is that he doesn’t have an off switch, that once he starts, he really can’t stop and that the best thing that I can do for me is to just not start. And we’ve explained to them that this is just the way things are for dad and that it’s not that way for mom. So she enjoys every now and then. And when the time comes, I’m really Hoping that a they inherit my wife’s genetics, not mine, and that they don’t have that little thing in the back of their head that says more, more, more, but that if they do, the experiences that I’ve had and the things that I’ve been through will help me help them. The fact is, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t start using alcohol as well as other substances back when I was in high school and living at home with my parents. And they knew some, but they had no idea of most of it. I would like to believe that when my children get to that age and those temptations hit them, if they do give in and experiment and that type of thing, that with my previous experience, hopefully I’ll be able to identify the signs a little better than my parents were able to. And more importantly, that my wife can speak to them from the perspective of a professional who knows better.

Matt Strain [00:17:49]:
And I can speak to them from the perspective of somebody who’s been there and knows what the end result and knows where it’s going to bring you. And again, I don’t make a secret of it. I’m more than happy to explain to my kids this is what it was. Now I do it in age appropriate way. I mean, I don’t talk to my daughter when she was seven with the same details that I talk to her now that she’s 11 and about to go into middle school. But there’s no benefit in hiding any of our past to anybody.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:19]:
One of the things that comes to mind is this journey that you’ve been on is, is also a health journey in many different ways. Not only going from the brink of where your doctor told you that, that you were on the verge of being on a transplant list and possibly leading toward death, to now being in a much different place. And I know that when you turn 49, you decision to do your first triathlon and now you’re starting to share some of that exercise and health journey with your daughter. So tell me a little bit more about that journey for you.

Matt Strain [00:18:54]:
So when I was 49, full disclosure, I got picked up in 2021 as a brand ambassador for a particular non alcoholic beer brewery. And they’re very involved in the fitness space and they issued a challenge over Memorial Day weekend. And the idea was that you had three days to do their version of a triathlon. You had to swim for 30 minutes and they didn’t care what you were doing. You could swim laps, you could play Marco Polo, just as long as you were moving. And in the water, you had to bike for 30 miles however you wanted, and you had to run, crawl, walk, hike, whatever, for three miles. And I did all of it at the gym because I didn’t own a bike. And they had a pool and there was a treadmill, and my wife was working one of those days, so I couldn’t go that day because I wasn’t quite comfortable with bringing my kids to the gym yet, because while masking and protocols were going relatively well, My wife works in the emergency department of the hospital, so she was on the front lines during COVID And our biggest fear was that we were going to be the vectors spreading it to our community.

Matt Strain [00:20:01]:
So we isolated ourselves as much as we could. And I made sure that anytime I went out, I was wearing a mask, not so much to protect me, but because I was always concerned that she could bring something home from the hospital. And I didn’t want to be Typhoid Mary. I ended up doing it in two days. One day, I swam laps for 30 minutes and got out and then did three miles on the treadmill. And the next day I went back and rode a stationary bike for 30 miles. And after I’d done it, in return for doing that, I got a free case of their beer. So, apparently, exercise is much more of a priority when I’m getting bribed with something that tastes good.

Matt Strain [00:20:37]:
But I told my wife, if I can do this in two days, there’s no reason why I wouldn’t be able to do all of this in one day. And to her credit, she did look me straight in the eye and say, well, yeah, but why in the world would you want to? And I laughed, and I said, well, you know, I’m 49. I should do something epic. I’m too. Before I turn 50, I’m too smart to jump out of a plane. I already own a motorcycle. This seems doable. And she laughed, and she said, sure, why don’t you actually buy a bicycle and ride it outside before you jump all over this? And so I did.

Matt Strain [00:21:06]:
I bought a bike, and I started riding around the neighborhood and decided I was going to go through with it. And I finally did my first one, and it was painful. And there were a lot of points during that race that I questioned a lot of life decisions that brought me to that point. I finished dead last. Dead last by over half an hour compared to the person who came in second to last. Literally, the plan was to do it once, check it off the list, and never do it again. And about two days later, all I could Think of is, when’s the next, When’s the next? So the next year I ended up doing five. The year after that I did four more.

Matt Strain [00:21:39]:
Two Sundays ago, I did my 15th race. Now I’ve only been doing the sprint and Olympic distance. I’m not doing the long format, 70.3 and 140.6 races yet. That’s the goal down the road, but we have to build up to that. However, while I was doing this, my daughter started saying, you know, one day I want to do a triathlon too. And I remember laughing and saying, well, you know, the first thing we got to do is get the training wheels off your bikes. I’m pretty sure they don’t let you race with training wheels. And she was like, yeah, that’s true.

Matt Strain [00:22:09]:
So about two years ago, we were out at the park and she’s made up her mind. She was ready to take training wheels off. And we took the training wheels off and she took her about two or three tries and she got it down and was absolutely hooked on the bike. And so she and I started going on bike rides together. I think our first long ride, we did a 10 mile ride on a local greenway. Here I am riding a tricked out triathlon bike and she’s riding a Disney Frozen single speed huffy and did 10 miles. I was blown away by how tough she was. Granted, the complaints started at about mile eight, but like I told her, the car’s two miles that way.

Matt Strain [00:22:47]:
There’s only one way to get there so we can rest, but we got to keep going. And she got hooked and absolutely loved it. And then I stumbled across a group this past spring called Girls on the Run, which is a wonderful nonprofit that works with girls that are in third through fifth grade. And they work on positive body image and self confidence and all the rest of it using running as a teaching element. And the idea is that the girls sign up for it. They do two practices a week for like six or eight weeks. And at the end of it, all the girls run a 5k together. And it’s a real 5k, not just one.

Matt Strain [00:23:24]:
For the girls on the run, they do like, like a community 5k with people from all over. So needless to say, they don’t just turn third to fifth graders loose in a crowd of grown adults. Each girl is required to have a running buddy. Now, the girls are welcome to choose some of the coaches. They’re welcome to bring anybody they want. My daughter asked if I would be her running buddy, and I’m not gonna lie, I Teared up. I was so absolutely touched. I’m like, absolutely.

Matt Strain [00:23:48]:
I will do that. We’re gonna do it. It’s gonna be great. And the two of us went and we ran it. We had a great experience. I’ve got amazing pictures of the whole thing. She’s got glitter on her face and they do happy hair where they put like little hair extensions and barrettes that are fun colors. And they put temporary hair dye on the girl’s hair so that they can make a big thing out of it.

Matt Strain [00:24:11]:
And we did this 5k. And on her very first ever time running a 5k for practice with the girls on the run fold. She ended up doing it in a little over an hour, which for those who aren’t familiar, It’s a, a 3.1 mile run. An hour’s a long time, but again, she’s got short legs. So that’s what I went into the race expecting. We finished the race, the two of us, in 38 minutes and change. On race day, I was a little jealous because my first ever 5k was a little over 50 something minutes long. And it took me two years to build up to a sub 40 minute.

Matt Strain [00:24:47]:
And she got it on her very first one. But she had a blast. And we came home that night and she informed me, that’s it, I want to sign up for a kids triathlete. And I said, are you sure? And she’s like, absolutely. I’m like, all right, I’m gonna sign us up, but you’re committed once I push this button. And she’s like, I’m gonna do it. So we found a local. Well, I say local, it’s gonna be about a two hour drive away, but we’re, we’ve got a little vacation planned around it, but we’re gonna do a triathlon where they’re doing an adult triathlon that starts at 7 in the morning and then at 9 in the morning they’re doing a kid’s TR, which is significantly shorter distance.

Matt Strain [00:25:23]:
But again, the idea is to get the kids involved in this when they’re young so that they learn to enjoy it and continue doing it throughout their lives and maybe move into it more in adulthood. I think the distances for her race is it’s 100 yard swim followed by like a two mile bike ride and then maybe like a half a mile or so on the run. Whereas the adult version of it for the same thing is going to be 3 or 400 yards swimming, followed by like a 13 mile bike ride followed by a 5k or 3.1 mile run. But her big thing is that she wants to compare where I place in my age group to where she places in her age group to see who’s better. My answer is it’s going to be her because she is young and has a whole lot more endurance than I do. But I’m just excited that she wants to share this with me. Since then we’ve gone out, we’ve gotten her a bike that’s like multi speed and all the rest of it that actually fits her. Took two tries to find one.

Matt Strain [00:26:22]:
The first one fit her but she couldn’t reach the brake. And you do need to be able to use the brakes on the bike. So we found it, we found a second one that she could reach the brakes on and mine’s hanging on the wall behind me. And again, it’s really nice to be able to look up on like a Saturday afternoon and decide that we’re gonna have dad daughter time. And the two of us grab our bikes and our helmets and put some water in the water bottles and we go out and hit a local green one and we go ride bikes for a while while. And we don’t. I mean yeah, we chit chat a little bit again. For anybody who’s ever done like training riding, at a certain point it gets harder to talk because you’re tired and huffing and puffing.

Matt Strain [00:26:59]:
But we make pit stops and we can talk during that time. But honestly, it’s just nice to have an 11 year old daughter that wants to spend time with me because again we’ve entered that age. I’ve been told multiple times that I am cringe and I’m sure it’s going to get worse as she moves into middle school school. But I found something that we can share and that we can bond over and I want to make sure it stays that way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:23]:
You know, it’s always so important to be able to find those things that you can share together. My oldest daughter and I, we cycle together, we run together, we enjoy hiking and getting outside. My youngest daughter and I do other things because her interests are not the same. Our kids are different and you have to figure out what it makes them light up and allow for them to many times drive the boat per se. So it is great to hear that you found some of that path for yourself with Lily and being able to create those special memories and special bonds together. We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection six where I ask you six more questions to delve into you and your relationship. With your daughter a little bit more. Are you ready?

Matt Strain [00:28:07]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:07]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Matt Strain [00:28:12]:
Powerful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:12]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Matt Strain [00:28:16]:
Nobody’s perfect that you’re gonna make mistakes. Roll with it. Admit your mistake. Apologize. If you need to apologize to your kids for the mistakes that you make and don’t make them again. The same kind of things that we try to teach our kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:31]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Matt Strain [00:28:34]:
Oh, definitely riding bikes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:35]:
Now, if you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Matt Strain [00:28:40]:
Be you don’t change for anyone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:42]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Matt Strain [00:28:46]:
That there’s so much more to life than just me. I know it’s cliche, but prior to having kids, so much of my life was wrapped up around what I want, what I need, where I want to be. It was a lot of I, I, I. And when I became a father, suddenly that went away. Don’t get me wrong, there are still things that I want out of life, but the priority is no longer me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:12]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Matt Strain [00:29:20]:
Find a place where you can meet your daughter where she is, not where you want to meet her. I got lucky in the fact that I had a hobby and my daughter decided that she liked that hobby. There wasn’t any guarantees that that was going to be the case. It could have very well been that my daughter decided that what she really love, being a cheerleader or something. And if that was the case, I was going to be the best cheerleader dad out there. And I was going to be there with her. I was going to cheer her on and support her and share that with her. Because if you can share in what they love, that’s where you’re going to connect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:56]:
Well, Matt, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey today. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Matt Strain [00:30:04]:
I have an Instagram AT account. It’s called Daddy’s Not Drinking where it’s largely about being a dad. Lately there’s been a lot of posts about scouting because my son got into Cub Scouts and has decided that dad needs to move into the leadership of the local scouting community. So there’s a decent amount about that. There’s also a lot about triathlon and non alcoholic beer and regularly about what sober life looks like because it’s not quite as boring as I thought it would be. It’s actually a whole lot better than I thought it would be. But, yeah, that would be the easiest place again for anybody else who’s an at home dad. And for the record, that that doesn’t mean just stay at home parents.

Matt Strain [00:30:44]:
Anybody who is an involved dad and a primary caregiver to their kids, they are at home dads. I got involved with the national At Home dad network when my daughter was about 2, almost 3 years old, and my son hadn’t been born yet. And that that community of dads has been a huge lifeline for me and anybody who’s interested. Their website is literally at home dad.org they do a lot of great stuff, both virtually and then once a year in person, they do a big convention, which is literally professional development for professional dads. This year it’s happening in San Antonio, Texas on September 11th through the 13th, but all the details are on the website. Great. And I’m also on Facebook just with my name, Matt Strain, if any of you are actually still on Facebook. I know it’s kind of corny and all, but honestly, there’s a whole lot of people that that’s the connection I have with them.

Matt Strain [00:31:37]:
And as much as I would love to just get off of it, there’s things that Facebook is good at. You just got to ignore the noise.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:43]:
Well, there’s a lot of noise on all of the social media platforms, so that Facebook is not the only place where that happens, so. Well, Matt, I just want to say a thing. Thank you. Thank you again for sharing your journey today. We’ll put links in the notes today, but I truly wish you all the best as you continue this journey that you’re on with Lily and your son. And look forward to hearing more about not only this triathlon, but many to come in the future.

Matt Strain [00:32:08]:
Thanks. And thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build strong, stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:32:41]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing faster than time goes by Just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be can be.

What to Say When Your Daughter Feels Like She’s Not Good Enough

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Hey dads! Welcome to Dad Connections in 5, your quick, practical guide to building a stronger bond with your daughter—one meaningful conversation at a time. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today, we’re tackling a tough but important topic: What to say when your daughter feels like she’s not “good enough.”

Maybe she’s struggling in school, feeling left out with friends, or comparing herself to others on social media. No matter the reason, hearing your daughter doubt herself is heartbreaking—and as a dad, you want to fix it.

But here’s the thing—you can’t just tell her she’s amazing and expect her to believe it. Confidence doesn’t come from just hearing “You’re great.” It comes from learning how to face self-doubt and push through it.

So today, I’ll share why she might feel this way, what NOT to say, and three powerful things you CAN say to help her build confidence.

Why She Might Feel Like She’s Not “Good Enough”

Kids, especially girls, are under so much pressure—to be smart, pretty, talented, popular, successful. And if they don’t meet these impossible standards, they start believing:

  • “I’ll never be as good as everyone else.”
  • “I’m just not talented enough.”
  • “No matter how hard I try, it’s never enough.”

This self-doubt can come from school, friendships, social media, or even just being too hard on herself.

What NOT to Say

When she’s feeling down, you might be tempted to quickly reassure her, but some common responses can actually backfire.

  • “That’s not true, you’re amazing!” (She won’t believe it in the moment.)
  • “Stop being so hard on yourself.” (She doesn’t know how to stop.)
  • “Other people have it worse.” (Minimizing doesn’t help—she just wants to be heard.)

Instead of trying to fix it immediately, help her work through it.

3 Things to Say When She Feels “Not Good Enough”

  1. “It’s okay to feel this way, but let’s look at the facts.”

Self-doubt often comes from feelings, not facts. Help her step back and see the bigger picture.

  • “I hear you. You feel like you’re not good enough—but is that really true, or just how you feel right now?”
  • Let’s look at all the ways you’ve improved or worked hard.”

When she separates emotions from reality, she can start to reframe her thinking.

  1. “What would you say to a friend who felt this way?”

When kids doubt themselves, they’re often much kinder to others than to themselves.

  • “If your best friend said, ‘I’m not good enough,’ what would you tell her?”
  • “Why don’t you deserve that same kindness?”

This helps her recognize her own worth—on her own terms.

  1. “Let’s focus on growth, not perfection.”

Perfectionism is a major reason kids feel like they’re not good enough. Teach her that progress matters more than being the best.

  • “You don’t have to be perfect to be valuable.”
  • “Every mistake is a chance to learn and grow.”
  • “What’s one thing you can do today to take a step forward?”

By focusing on small wins, she learns that effort is what really counts.

Quick Takeaways: Start Today!

Here’s your challenge: The next time your daughter says she’s not good enough, don’t just tell her she is—help her believe it.

? Validate her feelings without minimizing them.
? Help her see facts, not just emotions.
? Encourage her to treat herself like she would a friend.
? Shift her focus from perfection to progress.

Your words won’t just lift her up in the moment—they’ll shape how she talks to herself for years to come.

That’s it for today’s Dad Connections in 5! If this was helpful, share it with another dad who wants to help his daughter believe in herself. Until next time—keep listening, keep encouraging, and keep showing her that she is more than enough.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

From Airman to Dad: Ralph Ave on Meaningful Connections

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Raising a daughter is no small feat, especially when juggling responsibilities like military service or a demanding career. In the latest episode of Dad and Daughter Connection, guest Ralph Ave shared profound insights into his relationship with his 17-year-old daughter. With years of unique experiences, challenges, and triumphs behind him, Ralph provides a glimpse into what it takes to build and sustain a lasting bond with his daughter while also preparing her for independence. Below, we break down some of the key takeaways from his story and offer actionable advice for dads looking to strengthen their relationships with their own daughters.

The Joy of Starting the Journey

Parenthood often begins with a transformative moment––a spark that ignites the bond between a father and child. For Ralph, that moment came soon after his daughter was born. One day, after feeling particularly down, Ralph recalled coming home to his infant daughter’s pure joy upon seeing him. This moment underscored the importance of showing up and staying present in her life. From that day on, Ralph recognized the power of his role as her father and committed to being there for her no matter the obstacles.

This transformative experience serves as a reminder for all fathers: being present in your child’s life is not just about physical proximity but also emotional investment and connection.

Balancing Responsibilities and Building Connection

As a military officer, Ralph had the demanding task of balancing a career that required frequent absences with his responsibilities as a dad. His strategy? Open communication, teaching independence, and making use of the tools available to stay connected.

Whether Facetiming from Korea or gifting meaningful souvenirs from his travels, Ralph demonstrated that staying connected doesn’t always require physical presence. He also taught his daughter valuable lessons about responsibility, making her more independent by involving her in chores and reminding her to contribute to the family. Even small gestures, like checking in with her school progress electronically, showed her that he cared.

For dads in similar situations, Ralph’s approach to balancing work and connection shows how intentional efforts can bridge gaps created by demanding jobs or travel.

Letting Your Child Lead the Way

Some of the most profound lessons Ralph shared came from the way he supported his daughter’s love for basketball. Early on, Ralph insisted she had to demonstrate her passion. Her commitment to early morning practices, summer training, and unwavering dedication showed Ralph that her dreams were genuine. He wholeheartedly supported her vision by coaching her school and travel basketball teams, reinforcing her skill development, and helping her grow as a team player.

This principle of allowing your child to take the lead in pursuing their passions can be instrumental for other dads aiming to raise confident, independent daughters. By supporting––and not imposing your own dreams upon them––you build authenticity and trust in the relationship.

Mistakes are Part of the Journey

Fatherhood isn’t perfect, and one of the most important aspects of being a dad is recognizing and learning from mistakes. For Ralph, one mistake stood out––expecting too much from his daughter when she was younger. As a dad to the oldest sibling in his family, his expectations sometimes felt too heavy. He realized that while it’s important to instill responsibility, it’s equally essential to let children enjoy their childhood.

This was a valuable reminder to all dads: see your daughters for who they are in the moment, not who you think they should be. Childhood is fleeting, and sometimes, kids just need to be kids.

Make Sure They Feel Valued and Heard

One of the cornerstones of Ralph’s relationship with his daughter is making her feel loved, valued, and heard. Saying phrases like “I love you” and offering words of encouragement––especially during tough times, like basketball losses––are small but powerful ways Ralph reassures his daughter of his unwavering support.

For every dad, small daily efforts to express love and encouragement can go a long way in fostering emotional security in their daughters.

Encouraging Independence While Being There to Catch Them

As Ralph’s daughter prepares to graduate high school and play basketball at a college in California, he continues to encourage her independence. He teaches her to solve problems on her own, do her own research, and make smart decisions. Ralph believes that facing failures is an important part of growing up––but he ensures she knows he will always be there to guide and support her as she learns.

Dads looking to help their daughters grow into strong, self-sufficient individuals can take inspiration from Ralph’s philosophy: guide your child, but allow them to stumble, teaching resilience and resourcefulness in the process.

The Power of Tradition and Shared Moments

For Ralph and his daughter, shared activities like basketball training and the cherished father-daughter dance on military bases were rituals that strengthened their bond. These moments of togetherness served as pillars for their relationship, giving them opportunities for connection and mutual growth.

If you don’t have a tradition or routine with your daughter yet, now is the perfect time to start. Whether it’s a shared hobby, a weekly activity, or a meaningful holiday tradition, these rituals lay a foundation for long-lasting memories.

Final Advice for Dads

When asked for his best advice to other fathers, Ralph’s words were simple yet profound: “Let them dream.” Supporting their individuality and passions, while being present and intentional, builds the trust and love that form the core of a strong father-daughter bond.

As Ralph’s journey shows us, raising strong, independent daughters isn’t about being a perfect dad––it’s about being a present and connected one. Take small, intentional steps every day to show your daughter that she matters––and watch your bond flourish in return.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and daughter connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m doctor Christopher Lewis, and the dad and daughter connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and daughter connection. I’m really excited to have you back again this week. I’m Doctor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:58]:
Christopher Lewis, and I am really excited to have you here this week as we talk more about this important connection that we’re building with our daughters. I have said it before, I’ll say it again. One of the most powerful things that we can do as dads of daughters is have a strong bond, have a strong connection with our daughters. It’s going to help us personally, but it’s also going to help them in being able to be strong, independent women as they grow up in their lives. And that’s why this show exists. Every week, I want to be able to offer you some things to think about, some, some opportunity to be able to think deeper about the bonds that you’re trying to create with your daughters. And I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that will give you an opportunity to be able to consider things in a different way. And we’ll do that through these conversations.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
And today I’ve got another great guest. Ralph Ave is with us and Ralph is a father of three. He has one daughter. And we’re going to be talking about that relationship that he has with his own daughter. And I’m really excited to be able to have him here and to share some of his own journey with us. Ralph, thanks so much for being here today.

Ralph Ave [00:02:11]:
Thanks for having me, doc.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]:
I’m really excited to have you here today and to really delve a little bit deeper into this relationship that you have with your daughter. I know your daughter’s 17 and I’ve got a 17 year old as well. So, you know, you’re, you’re in the thick of it as she’s getting ready to graduate and kind of that grown and flown moment as she’s getting ready to move beyond home into the next phase of her life. And I guess as you think about the relationship that you’ve built with your daughter thus far, Talk to me about maybe one thing that has been most meaningful for you when you think of those moments that you’ve shared together and what made it so special?

Ralph Ave [00:02:49]:
So I can remember back when she just came out, like a little baby. I was just feeling in the dumps, just having a rough day, rough week, actually. And I went somewhere just to kinda cool off, think about things, and then, you know, I came home a little late. And then when I saw my daughter, she just had full of joy when she saw me. So I’m like, man, I gotta be there for this girl. So, yeah, that was kind of the start of it. And this, we had an attachment from then, you know, from then on, I realized like, you know what? I gotta be there for this girl. I mean, that’s one of the most pivotal moments I can remember.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:21]:
So as you so talk to me about I mean, you’re a busy guy. So you are doing a civil service job, you were in the military, and this is all happening as your kids are growing up. How do you balance guiding your daughter, while also giving her the independence to grow into her own person?

Ralph Ave [00:03:42]:
I just had to let her know that, hey, I had to let her realize what I was doing because I was wearing the uniform. Let her realize, you know, people who wear the uniform have to do a lot of sacrifice. And then I had to teach her how to be independent, you know, do chores, help mom out. You know, you’re the oldest sibling, so you gotta take up your brothers. Yeah. It’s just that bond. And then when I was away, I would call her up, FaceTime, and, just say, how how are you doing? How’s school? Just to be present electronically, if not physically. Because sometimes I’ve been in Korea, many different countries, Chile, Canada.

Ralph Ave [00:04:17]:
So I try to teach her, when you grow up, everything you do, make everybody around you better. Make sure your character is good. Make sure you earn your respect. It’s not given to you. You have to earn it. And then you gotta work hard. You gotta keep your grades up. You gotta work hard.

Ralph Ave [00:04:32]:
I mean, I I bribe their grades. You know, every a is $20. Every b is $10. So I’ve never had issues with their grades since.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:42]:
Being that you had to be away and you weren’t always there as they were probably young and as they were going through some of those formative years. Talk to me about some of the intentional ways of which you worked to be able to strengthen your bond with your daughter when you were away. And as you transition back home, and maybe even especially during challenging times.

Ralph Ave [00:05:05]:
So we we would, of course, communicate, but then, you know, it gets expensive. We have to buy gifts every time we come back just to make sure, hey. I don’t forget about you Or give her, like, a little souvenir. Or, like, if I was out and about, I would show her where I was just to kinda see what I was doing. And so, I mean, a lot of stuff, I could couldn’t really show because of, you know, military stuff. But like I said, when I was out and about, just making sure making sure where her head was at. At that age, she didn’t realize what I had to do. She just thought that it was normal for that not to be there sometimes.

Ralph Ave [00:05:38]:
And then when she got older, she started feeling it. So that’s when I told her sometimes as parents, you know, we made these choices before you all were born, and I can’t just come out of it. This is a commitment I made. And I did this because this country gives so much to my family. That’s why I’m doing this. And so she she was getting to the point where, like, starting to understand her, maybe 11, 12 years old, and she was just starting to get used to it. But I told her, I’ll never leave. I’ll always be there for you.

Ralph Ave [00:06:10]:
Whatever you need, just phone call away. Just I’ll keep in touch. Don’t think that I’ll just disappear. And for some weird reason, we have this bond. Yeah. I’ll discipline her when she needs it, but most of the time, she’s she’s been pretty good.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:22]:
Now I know that as a dad, we don’t always make the right decisions. We don’t always do things right. We make mistakes. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father? And what would what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection?

Ralph Ave [00:06:38]:
Treating her like she was already older. That was my biggest mistake. I I had to realize she’s still young. She’s she’s still a kid. She’s still growing into things. And I think I maybe expected too much at one point out of her and realized, like, wait a minute. She’s still a child. Like, know, even though she’s the oldest sibling, she’s still a child.

Ralph Ave [00:06:57]:
She she still needs her childhood, and I didn’t want her to grow up fast. I want her to kinda, hey. Enjoy your childhood and whatever your dreams may be. I will do whatever I can to get you there. But, yeah, I think my biggest mistake was just just not realizing she wasn’t ready for some responsibilities I was expecting her to do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:14]:
What do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Ralph Ave [00:07:19]:
I never fail to say I love her. I I try to say that all the time. When she feels down, like, she hates losing. Basketball game, she’s just passionate about it. And when she loses, she’s like, I don’t wanna talk. I just I’ll give her a hug. Say, hey. No matter what, I’m proud of you.

Ralph Ave [00:07:34]:
And that’s it. I just make sure that no matter what happens, no matter how bad things get, I will always love her, and I will make sure she hears that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]:
I mentioned at the beginning that your daughter is getting ready to graduate. You told me before we started that she’s already committed and she’s gonna be playing basketball for a university, a college in California, which is amazing. But talk to me about how do you support your daughter in pursuing her passions and her dreams?

Ralph Ave [00:08:01]:
My style is they gotta show it to me. They can’t just say it. So she made the fifth grade team as a fourth grader, and every kid says stuff. Right? So I’m like, oh, cool. You know, just do your best. I’ll I’ll support you. I started watching her play, there’s something here. So after her season was, she came up to me and said, dad, I need help with my distance shooting.

Ralph Ave [00:08:23]:
Right at that point, I said, okay, this girl wants it. So what I did was we go to the base gym, we do drills, we shoot around, I’ll make her put up shots because our family doesn’t have a lot of hype. So we have to focus on the gaps between the layups and the, three point line. So I make her focus on mid range shots. And then on top of that, I found a local travel team here that we thought would help her out just to see what kind of talent is out there because we always say when you join a travel ball team, that’ll either make or break if you really want it or not. Because we come from a small town, and it gets ugly. You could see scores like 50 to ten, sixty to five. But even after that, she I said, do you still want this? She said, yes, dad.

Ralph Ave [00:09:04]:
So and there was times I was her school coach, and there was times I was her travel ball coach. And then I felt very privileged because I know there’s a lot of parents that coach, and the kids don’t listen because that’s their parents. They’re hard headed about it. But I have been very blessed with her. She’s listened to everything outside, and she’s led the team to like I said, I always told her, if we do this, you gotta make everybody around you better. It’s not just gonna be about you. You have to learn how to make everybody around you better. That way the team gets better.

Ralph Ave [00:09:32]:
So, yeah, like I said, I’ve been very blessed. And this last travel ball season, I was her, travel ball coach, and we we went to Hawaii, we went to there, and we had a Las Vegas tournament where we won the tournament championship. And that was a great way to end her travel ball career.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:46]:
What’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Ralph Ave [00:09:49]:
Actually, being there. When she’s sad, even when she don’t wanna talk, I’ll I’ll give her a hug and, like, you’re okay. You’re okay. If she needs something, I’ll get it for her, but not to the point where she’s being catered to. So there’s times I’ll be like, you gotta go get it. You gotta go earn it. Just it’s hard to balance because it’s just like your little girl or your little princess, and it’s it’s almost like anything she says goes. So sometimes I have a tough time with that, but there’s times where I’m like, you have to go do your own research.

Ralph Ave [00:10:19]:
I can’t give you all the answers. You have to go figure it out yourself. And then just let her know that I’m doing this because I want you to grow up, mature. I want you to start maturing yourself, and you need to not take things at face value. If you think something feels off, go research it. You know, go research for yourself. We have so much devices now that we can do research on. You know, our iPhones, our computers, just such easy access.

Ralph Ave [00:10:41]:
And so I kinda make her realize, like, you know, just you gotta start maturing. You gotta start making decisions on your own. And then make smart ones. Don’t. And I told her, even if you fall, I’ll be there. But you gotta fall. You gotta learn how to fall and get back up on your own. I will be right by your side.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:57]:
Well, it definitely sounds like you have created some amazing memories, but also some amazing traditions along the way that show her that. Talking about traditions or routines that you’ve had or you’ve set up for you and your daughter, what is a tradition or routine that you’ve created together that has strengthened your bond?

Ralph Ave [00:11:16]:
Used to always do the father daughter dance here on the base. That was a great event, especially I get to wear my uniform when we get to do that because it’s a military father daughter dance. A lot of our relationships built on basketball, but just having talks. You know, we just have these one on one talks where I’m trying to find where she’s at in her head. And then I just tell her and I’ll tell her how I feel too sometimes just just to make her feel like more of an adult now because, you know, she’s grown. She’s gonna be an adult, so she kinda have to see, like, what we go through as adults. But traditions are mainly like basketball. We would go work, shoot around, or I would help her with her her game.

Ralph Ave [00:11:59]:
We I’ve been doing that for years with her. So, I mean, we don’t necessarily have a tradition, but we have a thing where we we will hang out, just us two. But other than that, just to get closer, before she leaves, I wanna make sure she’s in the right space, just being strong mentally.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:13]:
We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection six, where we where I ask you six more questions to get to know you a little bit more and get to know more about you and your connection with your daughter. Are you ready?

Ralph Ave [00:12:27]:
I hope so.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:29]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Ralph Ave [00:12:32]:
Blessed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:33]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ralph Ave [00:12:37]:
Let them dream.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:38]:
What’s one activity you and your daughter love doing together?

Ralph Ave [00:12:42]:
Basketball.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:43]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson, what would it be?

Ralph Ave [00:12:47]:
Don’t quit. No matter what, don’t quit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:49]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ralph Ave [00:12:53]:
Patience. And I learned to be a lot more patient than I used to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:58]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? What would you say to them?

Ralph Ave [00:13:06]:
I would say let them dream, let them be, Find what they wanna do. Not what the dad wants to do, but they wanna do. And just be supportive in whatever things they decide to do. And if it changes, that’s fine. Let’s, you know, just continue to support them because it’s that’s where they’re gonna get their foundation from.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:24]:
Well, Ralph, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey with your daughter. I wish you the best as she finishes up her high school career and moves into the next phase of her life as she heads off to college. I know it’s going to be a big transition for you, but also for her. It sounds like you’ve got a strong relationship that’s going to last and there’s going to be even more amazing experiences in both of your futures. Thank you so much for being here and I wish you all the best.

Ralph Ave [00:13:52]:
Best. Thank you, doctor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:53]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and daughter connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:23]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and musclemen, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:17]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Embracing Change and Fatherhood: Insights with Nick Tasler

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In this powerful episode of Dad & Daughter Connection, we sit down with author and father of four, Nick Tasler. Best known for his insights into navigating change, Nick shares his unexpected journey of raising a daughter after initially planning for a smaller family, and the myriad challenges and joys that come with it.

Discovering the Joy of a Daughter

Nick Tasler and his wife were taken by surprise when their fourth child turned out to be a girl, breaking the streak of boys. From the moment of her birth, Gwendolyn brought a unique dynamic to the Tasler household. As she enters fourth grade, Nick reflects on the emotional roller coaster of discovering they had a daughter and the nuanced differences in parenting her compared to his sons. Tasler candidly admits to his fears about raising a daughter, particularly the anticipated complexities of her teenage years. This transition emphasizes the different challenges fathers face emotionally and practically when raising daughters.

Creating Intentional Relationships

A recurring theme in the discussion is the importance of intentional engagement. Nick underscores the significance of aligning with his children’s interests to foster a deeper connection. Though he might prefer different activities, he makes a concerted effort to be present in his daughter’s space, whether it means watching her favorite movies or participating in her hobbies. This practice strengthens their relationship and sets the stage for meaningful interactions.

Balancing Discipline and Leniency

Nick highlights the delicate balance required in parenting, where he often finds himself adopting the disciplinarian role for his daughter to balance his wife’s more lenient approach. This dynamic, while challenging, ensures that Gwendolyn receives a well-rounded upbringing. Such balanced parenting enables fathers to instill values and discipline while remaining approachable and involved.

Incorporating Work and Family

Tasler implements a unique tradition of taking each child on work trips when they turn 10. These trips serve as valuable bonding experiences and provide practical life lessons. Balancing work and family, Tasler stresses the importance of being intentional about making time for his children, despite professional obligations. This conscious effort helps in aligning interests and preventing excuses that could lead to absenteeism in crucial moments of their lives.

Agile Optimism: Embracing Change

Dr. Lewis and Nick also delve into the thematic core of Nick’s latest book, “Your Years of Wonder, Embrace Change, Grow Faster, Win Bigger.” Tasler’s personal connection to change, driven by numerous relocations throughout his life, makes him an advocate for agile optimism. This mindset promotes continuous learning and resilience, which he aims to instill in his children. Facing setbacks with a growth-oriented outlook not only aids personal development but also prepares his children to navigate life’s inevitable challenges.

Lasting Reflections

The episode concludes with Nick sharing a touching moment he experienced with Gwendolyn at SeaWorld, highlighting the profound satisfaction and success he feels as a father during shared experiences. His parting advice for fathers is to focus on the present moment, dispelling distractions and aiming to create memories worth cherishing. This perspective can lead to more intentional and loving fatherhood practices, ultimately raising empowered and resilient daughters.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to The Dad & Daughter Connection podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter’s lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. You know, every week, I love being on this journey with you. I call it a journey because it truly is because every day there’s going to be ups. There’s going to be downs and you’re going to be learning every day that you have your daughter in your life, whether you’re at a point where they are a toddler and just moving around the house to they’re in college and they’re calling you because they need your help. Or if they’re adults and you’re checking in on them every once in a while, you’re always gonna be their dad. And that being said, there’s always something that you can learn about being a better father. And that’s why this podcast exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]: This podcast exists to help you to be able to be that engaged dad that you wanna be, but also gives you the tips and tools to help you to raise your daughters, to be those strong, independent women that all of us want our daughters to be. That’s why every week I bring you different guests from people with different experiences that can help you to think about fatherhood in a little bit different way, share some of their own experiences to help you to be able to broaden your own thoughts and broaden your own perspectives about fatherhood as well. And today we got another great guest. Nick Tasler is with us today. And I learned first about Nick because he’s got a brand new book out called Your Year of Wonders, Embrace Change, Grow Faster, Win Bigger. And I read this book as a part of my dad of divas blog and being able to I love reading about organizational change and leadership and things like that. But as the more and more that I read about it, the more I saw parallels with fatherhood. Nick is a father of 4 and he’s got one daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]: So we’re gonna be talking about that journey that he’s been on as well. And I’m really excited to be able to not only talk about fatherhood, but talk about the interplay between what he wrote in this book and fatherhood. Nate, thanks so much for being here today.

Nick Tasler [00:02:17]: My pleasure, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: It is my pleasure having you here today. Love being able to chat with you. And first and foremost, I wanna learn a little bit more about you as a dad. So I wanna turn the clock back in time because I know you’ve got 4 kids, 3 boys and a girl. So your youngest, your 4th grader is your daughter. So I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Nick Tasler [00:02:44]: Well, that is a story, Chris. So you are in luck. We were actually planning on stopping after 2. And well, I was planning on stopping after 2 because sort of selfishly, but also selflessly because my wife had those pregnancies with the first two where she is got morning sickness 24 hours a day for 9 straight months. And so we had our first two and I thought, okay, we’ve got our couple of kids. We’ve got a family, like, let’s call it good. Right? And she was okay with that for a little bit. And then about a, you know, after the second one was maybe a year old, a year and a half, she starts saying that she wants another.

Nick Tasler [00:03:31]: And I’m saying, don’t you remember how miserable you are during these pregnancies? Like, why do you wanna do this to yourself again? And then the selfish part, why do you wanna do this to me again? All right. Because I have to live with you for 9 months. Right? So we kinda had this debate and it raged on. There’s about 18 months between our first two and three and a half years between number 2 and number 3, because we had this debate going on for about 2 years before our 3rd one came along. So naturally, like usual, she won. We had 3 boys and then it was good. Then at this point, she says, you know what? I’m good. We’ve got our 3 happy.

Nick Tasler [00:04:15]: Let’s be done. Why don’t you go make sure we don’t have another? And I said, I will do that. And then I proceeded to procrastinate. And then we realized we are not done at 3. And surprise, you’ve got a 4th one on the way. Now, we didn’t find out the sex of the baby with any of our 4 kids. So we were surprised when they were born with all 3 of them. And we thought, why change it with the 4th? And we’re looking on the ultrasounds, and we get these nice four d ultrasounds.

Nick Tasler [00:04:47]: And this one looks exactly like the first three, and we’re thinking all we do is have boys. So we’ve got a 4th boy on the way. And that’s what we were thinking the entire time. Not even giving it a second. We almost didn’t even have a girl’s name. And then the day comes, we get there, and this baby comes out. And the doctor gives it to me, and I look at it. And I’m like, wait a second.

Nick Tasler [00:05:13]: There’s something wrong with this one. It’s missing an appendage, doc. And lo and behold, there came our our little girl. So I will say, this is she was the only one that I actually cried at the birth of. So that is my story on how little Gwendolyn arrived into our life.

Nick Tasler [00:05:31]: So she’s in 4th grade now, and I talk to dads all the time about this story of their daughters coming into their life, and and as their daughters age and the experiences that they’ve had. And many of dads talk about a little bit of fear as it comes to raising a daughter. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Nick Tasler [00:05:53]: I think my biggest fear is still yet to come just because I hear all the stories. I think it’s a cliche or a stereotype, maybe just a sweeping generalization that boys are harder when they’re younger, easier when they’re older. Girls are easier when they’re younger, harder when they’re older. So in other words, my daughter is only 10 right now. And so everyone says the teenage years are trickier with girls than with boys. So my fear is is what’s yet to come. And will I have the wherewithal and knowledge and wisdom and emotional intelligence to deal with the things that my daughter is going to go through that maybe my sons didn’t go through. And I’m still only, like, 50% convinced that, it’s going to be significantly different, but that’s what everyone tells me.

Nick Tasler [00:06:55]: So at the moment, I have not been afraid. I will say the one thing more so than the fact that it’s a girl versus a boy is the 4th rather than 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I do have this fear that as parents get older, as I’ve noticed with my wife and I, we get older, you become more lax with your kids. And I don’t mean like we were super disciplinarians, but we had fairly strict rules with the, say, our first. And I worry that as we kinda get older and lazier, that we’re not necessarily going to impart all the lessons on our daughter that maybe we did with our oldest. And so that’s something that I’m afraid of a little bit, if that makes sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:38]: It completely does. And I will say that it can be challenging. I don’t have boys, so I’ve only had girls. And both of my girls are very different from one another. Probably like your kids are not the same as one another as well. Different temperaments, different ways of processing, different emotional quotients. And that being said, you have to understand that they’re gonna bring something different to the table and that they’re going to need different things. So just like what you said, you know, your boys have needed different things as they’ve gotten older.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:12]: Your daughter is gonna need different things. And, you know, leaning on your wife for the experiences that she’s had is always is always something that I know that has helped me, but also the same extent that you have to be open to listening and learning, and know that at least for me, I had to learn a lot about my daughter’s not looking for me to solve things half the time. And as they get into those teenage years, a lot of times they just need you to listen. And if you’ve built that foundation for you and your daughter to have those type of conversations and she knows that you’re there, there’s a good chance that she will take advantage of that.

Nick Tasler [00:08:47]: And I will say that is something my wife has tried to teach me over the years that I don’t have to solve. Sometimes she just wants to talk about something. I mean, I don’t have to solve it. And to be perfectly candid, I struggle with that a lot. I chalk it up to part of the fact that, like, I make my living giving people advice and solving their problems. So it’s challenging for me to just listen and not try and solve a problem. But I I think I’ve gotten a little bit better at it, and I do believe that is going to be something that my daughter will want. And I hope and I have confidence in my ability to develop that muscle, but it’s going to be something that needs to be developed for sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:29]: So talking about not only the fear, but I guess as you think about the years that your daughter’s been in your life, talk to me about what’s been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter.

Nick Tasler [00:09:37]: For the most part, I think I’ve gotten lucky and that my daughter has been pretty easy to parent. She tends to be pretty fun loving, and I don’t know whether this is the just her personality or whether the fact that she has older brothers or whatever the case is, but she tends to not take things too seriously and to be maybe overly dramatic. Again, this is sort of stereotype. So it’s actually been pretty easy to be her dad so far. I will say probably one of the biggest things that’s been a challenge for me is my wife has, like, looked at this as an opportunity to she’s finally got her girl. And so she tends to be fairly lenient with her in a lot of ways, in ways that she was not lenient with our sons. So it’s kind of we almost have, like, switched the stereotypical roles of daddy’s little girl, so I just spoil her all the time. I’m actually the disciplinarian more with my daughter than maybe I was with my sons in part because I feel like my wife is so lenient that somebody has to put some guidelines in.

Nick Tasler [00:10:48]: And it’s not like my wife doesn’t have any guidelines, but it’s been a different role for me. And my wife has said, like, well, this is your girl. Don’t you wanna spoil her a little bit? And I do. And I’ve said, but I don’t want her to grow up being spoiled. And if you’re spoiling her, and if I spoil her, we’re gonna have a spoiled kid that has a hard time making her way in the world. And I don’t want that to happen with her. So that’s sort of unexpectedly been a challenge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:17]: Now, with anybody that has multiple kids, you have to understand who they are, but you also have to find time to be able to build those unique relationships with each one of them. And you’re a busy guy. You are doing a lot of things with your family, but also things outside of your family to be able to continue your own business, public speaking and working with clients and so on and so forth. So talk to me about balance and how do you balance work as well as being a father to each of your kids?

Nick Tasler [00:11:51]: It’s not easy. And I’ll tell you with my daughter, again, whether this is a function of age or gender, I’m not sure, but probably a little bit of both. I do have to be much more intentional about spending time with her. And the reason why is because my sons, you know, they’re involved in sports and they’re in things that it’s like a little bit easier for me to, well, frankly, to take active interest in. And they’re older now too. So our interests are becoming more aligned. And so it’s a bit more natural for me to spend time with my sons. With my daughter, again, largely because of her age as much as anything, I have to be more intentional.

Nick Tasler [00:12:34]: It doesn’t kinda come as naturally. But on the flip side, I will say, my wife will tell you and so will probably many people that know us, that of all my 4 kids, my daughter is the most like me personality wise. She is sort of like my clone as a 10 year old, except she used a girl and I was boy. And so that helps a little bit. I mean, it makes it hard in some ways, but we share a similar sense of humor. So, it’s like finding the things that because you don’t want spending time with your kids. You wanna be intentional about it, but you don’t want it to be like pushing a boulder up a hill. So, I think it’s really about this balance piece is about finding things where your interest kind of overlap in a line, finding things that they’re into, that you also have somewhat of an interest in so that it’s not just this complete act of self sacrifice.

Nick Tasler [00:13:24]: Because if it is, then I feel like there’s always gonna be an excuse on why you can’t do it today and why this doesn’t work and why this work thing that you’re working on is actually urgent and important and that has to take precedence. So I’ve really tried to like figure out with each of my kids, what are the things that they’re into that I can be also interested in? So it’s something I’m looking forward to as well as being intentional about. And for me in particular, I speak and I travel kinda all over the the country, the world speaking. And so what I started doing with each of my kids when they turn 10 is once a quarter, I will try and take one of them with me to a speaking event. And it’s become this thing that they really look forward to because they get to go and they get to stay in a hotel and they get to fly on an airplane and they get to do these exciting things. Now, my daughter, so in March, she will be 10. And in May, she’ll get to take her first trip with me. And so that’s one of the ways that I’ve I’ve really tried to, like, incorporate my kids into what I do rather than just me trying to insert myself into what they’re doing.

Nick Tasler [00:14:37]: And I think it’s just continuing to find these ways. If I’m home, I will try and take them to school once a week. Little things like that that again, it’s just being intentional about being a part of what they’re already doing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:49]: That intentionality is so important in finding those ways to connect is as well. And I wanna latch on to something that you said, which was that you wanna find things that you’re interested in to share with her, but at the same time, be interested in what she is interested in as well. And it may be something that you have no interest in. But that being said, even if she just wants to play Barbies and you really have no interest in playing Barbies, take the time to play Barbies because that time is important to her. And she will remember that more so than probably the time that you spent doing things that you wanted to do because eventually she’s gonna know that you probably aren’t the biggest fan of playing Barbies, but you’re still doing it, and you’re taking the time and effort.

Nick Tasler [00:15:39]: It’s a good point, Chris. And a couple of examples of that. So for one thing, she likes watching movies. All kids kinda do, but she really like she draws pictures of what she’s seen. She writes little stories. And and so she’s really into it on like a like a fully immersive experience. And, again, that was very much like me when I was her age. So we have found that my wife, on the other hand, doesn’t really like watching TV that much or movies.

Nick Tasler [00:16:03]: She doesn’t have the same level of interest. And so I, whenever possible, I will try and do that, do things like that with her. And then there’s another part of it too that okay. So if you’re so in the corporate world, so, like, when Google built their new headquarters, I don’t know, 10, 15 years ago, And I think Apple did the same thing. Like there was this big emphasis on creating these forced intersections where people from disparate parts of the business had to kind of like walk through the same foyer to use like all the bathrooms in the entire campus were in the same place simply because they wanted people from different parts of the business, having these random encounters with one another. Okay. So they couldn’t be in these separate silos. And I think there’s a similar thing that applies to us in our homes, in our families.

Nick Tasler [00:16:51]: So last night, for example, my daughter is in her room, she’s drawing and I’m out in the living room. I had to look at something on my phone, kind of for work. And I was just looking on my phone, but I’m like in the living room by myself. And I thought I can go into her room and do this exact same thing, and we’ll just be in proximity to each other. So, she’s sitting at this little desk in her room. I go in and just lay on her bed, and I’m still kinda like looking through my phone. I’m not advocating a great way to spend time with your kids is to scroll through your phone. It’s not what I’m saying, but I was just sort of doing this sort of mindless thing.

Nick Tasler [00:17:28]: It didn’t require deep concentration. So we were in the same proximity with each other. And when that happens, we just start having a conversation. She shows me what she’s drawing, and she goes back to drawing, and I make some comments about what she’s drawing. And so it was just kind of this like organic way to just be together even though we were sort of working on adjacent things. And I find that those little connections, they lead into conversations that you weren’t planning on having. They just invite each other into each other’s world. I’m inviting her a little bit into my world.

Nick Tasler [00:18:03]: She’s inviting me a little bit into her world, and you never know like what kind of connections that has. And that breeds conversations that we’re gonna have later on today or later this week or something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:15]: Now I mentioned at the very beginning of the episode that you recently put out a new book called Your Years of Wonder, Embrace Change, Grow Faster, Win bigger. And it truly is it’s a practical guide that allows for people to really think about where you are today, where you see yourself in the future, and how you can embrace that change and turn that change into action. And it’s it’s a very small book. So I’m gonna tell tell the people, you can get through that book in one sitting very easily, and it’s full of practical advice and stories that you can really relate to. And as I was reading it, I really felt connected to it, not only in the work that I do professionally, but also in the work that I do as a father myself. And I guess I’d like to go back to the beginning. And can you tell me the story of why you decided you wanted to put this book out into the world? You’ve written other books. And as I said, this is a very small book.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:15]: I mean, it’s not a it’s not a tome. It’s not a 300 page book. I mean, this book is less than probably a 100 pages and very practical, but tell me the story. Why did you decide to write this book now?

Nick Tasler [00:19:25]: So we call that an airplane read. It’s designed when the wheels leave the ground, you can read the book and be done before the wheels touch the ground again. That’s the whole point of it. But so why I wrote this book? Well, I had been writing books about change, leading change, dealing with change, and it’s a topic that’s sort of near and dear to my heart because my life has been filled with change, not traumatic changes for the most part. My family moved a lot when I was growing up, and my parents have continued moving a lot after all of us kids left the house. And so change has just been like a natural part of my life. And I myself now now with my own family, we have moved a lot. My kids have been to multiple different schools, and I feel like that’s given me a unique perspective on change as something that we don’t have to fear in the way that most of us quite often do here.

Nick Tasler [00:20:15]: And that actually, if you think back of every great achievement that you’ve ever had in your life, it almost certainly began during a season of change, which is exactly what inspired you to develop new skills, to think a little differently about the the perspective that you had on this person or that situation, which may help you grow, which then help you win later on. Change happens, you grow, then you win. This is sort of the pattern of our lives and the pattern of all of our greatest achievements. And I feel like that message had sort of been getting lost. So my last book prior to this one, it was called ricochet what to do when change happens to you. And that one was really more about kind of resilience. So you have this bad thing happen to you. You have this difficult change that you’re going through.

Nick Tasler [00:21:05]: How do you survive it? And that is an important thing. But what occurred to me is it was short changing the value of change, which is it’s not just something that we have to survive. It can actually be the springboard quite often is the springboard to something even better. And I make that case for business, and it’s when, you know, I see this in my clients all the time. And I think the same thing is true. Parenting is a phenomenal example of this phenomenon. You have this change. And for me, you know, when we went from 0 kids to 1 kid, it was a seismic shift in my life, in my marriage.

Nick Tasler [00:21:46]: And I would be lying if I said it was beautiful and fantastic from day 1. It was not. The first year that we were parents was the hardest year, still to this day, the hardest year of our marriage, hands down, hands down. And side note, I feel like nobody told me that before we started having kids. And it’s because and I think it’s a common experience that lots of parents have, but you almost feel ashamed of yourself to admit that because bringing this new life into this world, finally having a family is supposed to be this beautiful, glorious experience, this blessing from God. And it is, but it’s not easy. It requires some a serious adjustment from a life with no kids to a life with kids. And I was not ready for that adjustment, to be honest with you. And but I can say now I grew so much in that year. I mean, in very practical ways, my productivity, my time management, I feel like I discovered 20 new hours in the day, things that I never could have imagined that I would be able to do as, say, a bachelor. All of a sudden, I find a way to squeeze these into a very tight time frame because I was forced to because of that change. And so that’s kinda the idea of your year of wonders is that we all go through these seasons of change that feel very difficult in the beginning. But when we look back on it, we realize we had so many insights, so many wonders, so many growth moments that we didn’t quite recognize in that time. But we look back on and say, I’m a different person because of that.

Nick Tasler [00:23:26]: And I’m a better person because of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:29]: So talk to me about how you personally have taken what you’ve written here, taken it beyond the organizational context, and are sharing it not only with others, but working with your own kids to help them to understand these concepts.

Nick Tasler [00:23:44]: So one example that I use with my kids all the time is this idea of agile optimism. Okay? And so I like to say there’s two kinds of optimism. There is fragile optimism, which is sort of where we believe We convince ourselves that we have this outcome, this desired outcome, and we are going to achieve it. Things are going to work out. We are going to achieve this outcome, and we feel empowered, and we feel confident, and we feel excited for a time. We feel excited and empowered right up until things don’t go according to our plan. And now all of a sudden, this sense of confident optimism, this fragile optimism shatters into a 1,000 little pieces, hence the term fragile. Agile optimism is we go into some new venture.

Nick Tasler [00:24:28]: Okay? So with my kids, maybe it’s starting a new school. Maybe it’s starting a new sport. Maybe it’s starting a new activity and or just developing a different skill set within one of these activities that they’re already doing and already interested in. And to go in and understanding that you might not get the outcomes you’re looking for every day of practice or every game, but you’re going to have insights that are going to lead to better outcomes shortly down the road. So it’s this notion of continuous learning to understand that the process of growth is almost always 2 steps forward, 1 step back. K? And so to properly calibrate their expectations and to help them notice and recognize that growth is still happening even though there was this setback, even though you had this short term failure, even though you had this disappointment. In the long term, when you zoom out, growth is still happening. You’re still getting better.

Nick Tasler [00:25:24]: You’re still improving. These big exciting outcomes are still on the horizon, but there’s gonna be these insights and setbacks along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:33]: I love that. And, I mean, it definitely is tangible and something that I think all of us should be trying to teach our own kids. And I appreciate that you’ve put that out there and put this book out into the world in that regard as well. If people wanna find out more about the book and also more about you, where should they go?

Nick Tasler [00:25:52]: The best place square one is nicktassler.com. So I would say start there. If you’re on Instagram or LinkedIn, you can find me there. Facebook as well, but nicktassler.com is ground 0.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:03]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Nick Tasler [00:26:09]: Yes, sir.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:10]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Nick Tasler

Love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis

Now when was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Nick Tasler [00:26:19]: I’m gonna need to come back on that one later. No. I could say I’ll say there was a trip that I took her on about 2 or 3 years ago when it was just me and her. I took her to SeaWorld in Orlando again for a trip that I was already planning to go on. And we just had this moment where I’m I remember she was sitting there eating one of these giant pretzels, and I don’t know. There was just something in that moment when she just kinda looking at me, and I could see that, like, we had just reached the new level of connection. And I wasn’t trying to teach her anything in the moment. I wasn’t trying to solve any problems of hers.

Nick Tasler [00:26:53]: We were just being together, and that felt like a success to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:57]: Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Nick Tasler [00:27:00]: I think they would describe me as a teacher who makes lame jokes and takes an interest in what they’re doing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:09]: Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Nick Tasler [00:27:11]: I think both my dad and my father-in-law, both. And they have, interestingly enough, 2 very different personalities and styles of bothering, but I learn incredibly valuable lessons from both of them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:27]: Now you’ve given a lot of piece of advice today, things that I think every father should think about and consider for their own style of fatherhood, their own way of fathering. As you think about all dads out there, what’s one piece of advice you’d want to give to every father?

Nick Tasler [00:27:42]: I think the thing that’s been most helpful for me on a regular basis is to look into the future and say, in 10 years from now, I’m going to be this old. So take your age plus 10 years. My child is going to be this old and or children. And I go through each of them, all 4 of mine. They’re gonna be this old. This one’s gonna be 25. This one’s gonna be 23. This one’s gonna be 19.

Nick Tasler [00:28:03]: This one’s gonna be 17. And then say, thinking from that perspective, what do I want to remember doing or not doing in this moment, this day, this week? And I find that quite often totally reshuffles my priorities in that moment, and I make a much better parenting decisions with just asking myself that one question.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:25]: Well, Nick, I just wanna say thank you for sharing what you have done as a father thus far, And thank you for writing this book that definitely makes you think outside the box and think about things that you may be able to incorporate into your own fatherhood, own work journey. And I truly wish you all the best.

Nick Tasler [00:28:45]: Thank you, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:45]: We’re all in the same boat, And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:38]: Be the best dad you can be.