family relationships Archives

Building Stronger Bonds: Matt Haviland and his Daughter Olivia’s Father-Daughter Journey

September 21, 2026 by dadofdivas

At the heart of The Dad and Daughter Connection, featured in this week’s episode, is the steadfast belief that the strongest father-daughter relationships are built one intentional moment at a time. In a conversation brimming with honesty and warmth, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Matt Haviland and his 20-year-old daughter, Olivia Haviland, to explore what it truly means to connect, support, and empower our daughters to become confident, independent women.

Listening With Intent

One of the most powerful themes from this episode is the importance of truly listening. Olivia Haviland reflects on her high school years, sharing how her dad’s willingness to listen without judgment made her feel seen and valued. Rather than resorting to harsh discipline, Matt Haviland chose to open a dialogue, striving to understand Olivia’s perspective and guide rather than simply correct. This practice, inspired by a national survey in which teens wished their dads would “listen more,” is a reminder for all fathers: be present, and let your daughter’s voice be heard.

Meaningful Moments Big and Small

Connection isn’t always about the grand gestures. Matt Haviland and Olivia share memories ranging from epic squirt gun battles to heartfelt college essays, and even “loud and obnoxious” declarations of love at McDonald’s. Whether it’s a shared joke, a drive together, or simply showing up at a dance recital, these moments accumulate into a reservoir of trust and comfort. As Olivia Haviland puts it, time spent together outweighs any material gift.

Guidance and Independence

Balancing guidance with independence is a recurring theme. Matt Haviland, a former single dad, emphasizes being intentional with the time he shared with Olivia, supporting her dreams while encouraging self-reflection and growth. For Olivia, this support translated into confidence in her career and life decisions—bolstered by her dad’s encouragement to think long-term and his faith-based guidance.

Real Advice for Real Dads

This episode wraps with practical wisdom: prioritize time with your kids, apologize for your mistakes, and let your actions reflect your family values. Both Matt Haviland and Olivia Haviland urge dads everywhere to listen deeply and value presence over presents.

Ready to strengthen your bond with your daughter? Listen to this heartfelt episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection and discover how every day can be an opportunity to connect, grow, and become the dad she needs.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together to build those connections that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. You know, I love it that you come back every week because that shows a lot about who you want to be as a father, but also who you want to be and what type of relationship you want to have, relationship that you want to have with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:
And it takes time, it takes effort, and it takes work. And we have to keep showing up. And it is so important for us to be able to put the work in for ourselves, but also put in the work with our daughters to be able to have that solid relationship that we wanna have. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that allow for you to be able to learn, to grow, to get some tools for your toolbox, and to be able to take those and use them for the future. So I am really excited today to have a, I’m gonna say a return guest. It’s not really a return guest on this show, but Matt Haviland, is with us. And Matt and his daughter are with us today, his daughter Olivia.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]:
And Matt is a past guest of a past podcast that I did called Dads with Daughters about 4 years ago. And I’m really excited to be able to have Matt on, but also this time his daughter Olivia, to be able to talk about the relationship that they’ve been able to build together and also what they’ve learned along the way to share that with you. Matt, Olivia, thanks so much for being here today.

Matt Haviland [00:02:26]:
Yeah, Chris, thanks again for having me back. And this is a really It’s a really special moment to have Olivia with me today. So say hi.

Olivia Haviland [00:02:33]:
Hi.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:
I’m really excited to have you both here. And I want to go back a little bit because I know, Olivia, you’re 20. You know, you’re an adult now. You’re doing the life thing. You’re doing the work thing. You’re out there. And as you think back to the relationship that you’ve been able to build with your dad, what’s one thing that your dad did for you that helped you and made you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Olivia Haviland [00:03:02]:
Um, I would say in high school, I was struggling a lot with my mental health. And then I was getting myself into a little bit of trouble. And he didn’t ground me. Well, there was like boundaries where he grounded me a little bit, but he was more open to like listening as of like why I did the things that I did, instead of just like not hearing me out and just screaming at me, taking my phone, not letting me hang out with my friends and everything. So that meant a lot to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:32]:
And Matt, I guess, take me back to that point for you, because I know you had your own journey as a youth and went through your own stuff. And we talked about, we talked about a lot of that in the first interview that we did. So talk to me about that for you and hearing that from Olivia and how you had to be able to kind of take what you learned to be able to help her?

Matt Haviland [00:03:57]:
Yeah, I was very grateful for a lot of the experiences that I had, not only personally but also professionally or through mentorship as well. I guess where I can go with that, Chris, is Olivia was born when I was 30 years old, so I wasn’t super young. So by the time she’s in high school, you know, I’m in my mid-40s. I would like to say I’ve learned a few things over those 14 or 15 years of parenting her, but I also Just like a lot of people, either parents or— I, I work with fathers also in a professional setting. You know, we learn a lot from our own previous experiences. So the things my own parents did or did not do, so learning how to correct that and apply that as much as possible. Plus working in a fatherhood field for so long, I’ve obviously picked up tips, either again things that I’ve taught guys or other men have taught me as well. But it really becomes a lot different instead of me just telling a dad what to do when I actually have to live this out.

Matt Haviland [00:04:54]:
But I think I could attribute a lot of it to— I was at a conference many years ago, probably 2010, 2012, and they revealed a survey result, a national survey, and they said all these teen kids wish their dad would fill in the blank. And the number one answer was listen more. And that was something that, just like Olivia just said, instead of flying off the handle, telling her how much trouble she’s in, let me hear her out first.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:18]:
Yeah.

Matt Haviland [00:05:19]:
And then we can go from there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:20]:
Now I know that a lot of times, Matt, we as fathers are trying to build those moments, those meaningful moments that connect us with our kids. And what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with Olivia and what made it so special?

Matt Haviland [00:05:35]:
Okay, she said the water fight, so clearly that must have been one. It was April Fool’s Day, probably about 4 or 5 years ago. She pranked me in the house and that turned out to a full-blown squirt gun war in the house, actually Super Soakers in the house.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:49]:
Well, I pranked him once and then he forgot to take the tape off the faucet and pranked himself again.

Matt Haviland [00:05:55]:
Yeah, she did the old, you know, she tied the rubber band around the sprayer on the kitchen sink. So when I turned on the kitchen sink faucet, it hit me, and then I shut it off and hit myself again. And yes, that is a very— we’re gonna remember that forever, having a squirt gun fight in the house. Not recommended. My wife had something to say about it when she got home, but it was very meaningful. Another really meaningful moment on a more emotional level was a couple years ago, Olivia wrote a paper for college, and they were to choose somebody that’s inspired them inspired them, and she wrote the paper about me. And it starts out with the words, I am who I am today because of my dad. And I don’t think, Christopher, I don’t think there’s any greater words that a parent can hear than something like that.

Matt Haviland [00:06:34]:
And she went on to say a lot of like what she just said about me being there and communicating with her mom and just so many other things. So that was a special moment. The fact that of all the times I’ve screwed up as a dad over, at that point, over 18 years, and then just to receive the gift like that that says, no, Dad, you did a lot of screwing up, but you did it right as well. And Really, that meant so much. To this day, there’s no greater gift I’ve ever been given than that paper.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]:
And Olivia, what are some things that you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship?

Olivia Haviland [00:07:05]:
I don’t know. I can’t really think of much because from our situation of like me growing up, it was really hard to make time to see me and everything, but he was doing all that he could. From what I noticed, I would just say maybe less of the dad jokes for sure. On a serious note, I can only flash back to when I was little and I wish he learned to cook more things rather than turkey burger and rice and sometimes mac and cheese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:34]:
That’s fair.

Matt Haviland [00:07:35]:
I was a bachelor for 29 years. Okay, so but just for your audience though, to just kind of backtrack our story, I was a single dad, Olivia’s mom and I never married. So I was a single father for the first 9 years of her life too. So just trying to navigate what that was like raising a child in 2 different homes.

Olivia Haviland [00:07:52]:
Because rules would would be different at my mom’s and then rules would be different here. I would say like not anything that he could do different, but like something I take back is like when we would get in arguments, I would like not talk to him for the rest of the night. But like, he— I’m thankful that you respected my space, but I kind of wish you would have like pushed me a little bit to like talk more. But other than that, I can’t really think of anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]:
Now, Matt, all of us are trying to help our daughters to be able to become the people that they’re becoming. Talk to me about how you you balanced guiding Olivia while also giving her the independence to grow into the person that she has become?

Matt Haviland [00:08:31]:
Yeah, speaking from personal experience, so being a single father— and I’ve often defined single dads especially as it could be a man who has full custody, maybe it’s split custody, maybe it’s minimal custody— I would be what was defined as a non-custodial parent, meaning I had less than 50% of the parenting time. Because of that, I was really intentional about the time I had with her. But I think that’s just a good lesson for any parent, is to be intentional intentional. I have the privilege of working with new first-time fathers in some of the work that I do, and I’ll talk to them about making time for their kids. You know, there’s a great quote that says, you’ll never have the time for your kids, you have to make time. There’s no other way. And really putting that into practice, um, you know, you go to parks— and this isn’t to shame anybody listening, but it’s a good reminder— and you’ll see all the parents looking down at their phones while the kids are playing. And it’s about getting engaged in their life.

Matt Haviland [00:09:24]:
And I think for having Olivia, because I didn’t have her all the time. I did not want to take her time— the time with her for granted. But any— even for parents that are raising their kids together in the same household, I mean, the reminder still goes that there’s no greater gift that we can give our kids than our time. And being present isn’t just being in the same room, it’s being, you know, mentally and emotionally present. And I know there’s probably a lot of people that have heard that before, but I think it’s true. I mean, just to be there, to be involved with raising kids— yes, you’re going to have the serious moments, But then also, it’s just kind of spending time together. Maybe it’s going for a walk, and maybe at first it’s a goofy conversation, or, or it’s, uh, it gets more serious. When I had Olivia, the average drive home to her mom was about 15 or 20 minutes each way.

Matt Haviland [00:10:09]:
So every time I picked her up, I mean, that’s 20 minutes of car time that we can kind of talk a little bit. So I think it was not just anything one specific, but it was just that continual over and over and over for 18 years of trying to be as intentional as I can, listening to her, correcting mistakes when I, I can, and then Everybody will say it, she is a carbon copy of me. She is literally— I mean, she’s cuter than me, but just, I mean, personality-wise, she is a carbon copy.

Olivia Haviland [00:10:36]:
We stand the same.

Matt Haviland [00:10:37]:
Yeah, our mannerisms are all the same. But really understanding that too, that I’m looking in a mirror here. So when I am raising her, disciplining her, engaging with her, how would I react to that as well?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:49]:
And speaking to that, Olivia, how has your relationship with your dad influenced the way in which you navigate life, relationships, or challenges? challenges today?

Olivia Haviland [00:10:59]:
Um, I would say, I mean, definitely he— I obviously wasn’t alive, but he did struggle when he was a teenager and in his 20s. And I feel like when I got into that point, when I was getting in some trouble my sophomore year of high school and everything, just like for him to know exactly what it was like to do the same things helped him guide me out of it instead of, like I said earlier, yelling at me, screaming at me. He would actually like hear me out and be like, hey, I was in your position once and this is how I got through it. But he would also always bring faith into it and keep me strong in my faith. Like he would always end a conversation with a Bible verse or bring in a passage or a verse just to help me through something.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]:
Now, Matt, we talked about— Olivia’s just talking about some challenging times, and all of us go through those challenging times as we’re raising kids. There’s great times and there’s where you might hit rock bottom as well. And what are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Olivia, especially during those challenging times?

Matt Haviland [00:12:05]:
I’ve always had, since I’ve become a dad, and I am one to really— I’m a huge advocate for everyone to have a mentor. You know, I’ve always had a mentor. I wasn’t raised in a two-parent home. My parents were never married. My dad was minimally engaged in my life. So not having that strong father figure in my life, growing up and understanding what that’s like. But when I did become a dad, I’ve always had strong mentor men in my life in various capacities. Some might be in work, some might be in parenting, or whatever it may be.

Matt Haviland [00:12:38]:
So I think being able to talk it through with a mentor who also was a father, and maybe even perhaps depending on who it was, a grandfather— so a mentor just being somebody that’s a little older and has more experience And hearing that out. And Chris, there was a ton of mistakes along the way. I mean, I’m not going to lie. There was— I’ve had some really bad moments as parents, never in a, like, an abusive way or anything, but where I really dropped the ball. And just understand, I don’t ever want to feel like that again. Apologizing to her, admitting that I screwed up and doing my best not to go through that again. But by the time she was really struggling, especially in the late middle school, early high school years, again, by this point, I’m in my mid-40s. I had been parenting her for a long time.

Matt Haviland [00:13:22]:
So, I knew Olivia. I was able to read her cues. And, I understand that might be a little different in every family dynamic, but I was able to read her cues. And, the girl talks all the time. So, when Olivia’s quiet, there’s obviously there’s something going on. And, like she said, I mean, I was in some— my teen and 20s were some pretty dark years in my life and never wanting her to go through that. I struggled with substance abuse and a lot of other I didn’t go that far. No, but I’m just saying I didn’t want you to go that far.

Matt Haviland [00:13:53]:
So being able to kind of curb that beforehand. But there’s always— I think there also was a special bond. And again, this isn’t to take away from anybody in other family dynamics, but because I was a single father, when I had Olivia, it was me and Olivia. So for 9 years, it was just us. We were like a team, you know? And just to be able to read— and I mean, she’s my heart, and I wanted to in so many ways, give her what I was never given from an upbringing even though it wasn’t perfect because she was still being raised in 2 different homes. But nonetheless, giving her the holidays or the Christmases or the love—

Olivia Haviland [00:14:28]:
Dance recitals and games.

Matt Haviland [00:14:29]:
Yeah, attending. My dad made 2 of my baseball games over 12 years. And, I was at almost every game I could make for her or her dance recitals and understanding how important that is for her to look out in the crowd And to see me there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]:
You know, Olivia, earlier I asked your dad about how he worked to be able to provide you with that independence that you needed. Talk to me on your side of how your dad encouraged you to be confident and independent in your life.

Olivia Haviland [00:14:56]:
I would say he’s always been my biggest cheerleader, even if it’s loud and obnoxious at my games. Or there was one time he was saying how much he loved me in the middle of McDonald’s, just screaming it.

Matt Haviland [00:15:09]:
On purpose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:10]:
On purpose.

Matt Haviland [00:15:11]:
To embarrass her on purpose.

Olivia Haviland [00:15:12]:
But I would say, like, he’s always been like, he’ll send me a, hey, good morning, I hope you have an amazing day. It’s not every day, but I think that’s what makes it more special is that it’ll be like out of the blue or it’ll be like a Bible verse or like I’ll tell him, I’m like, hey, I had a really bad day today. And then he’ll send me a Bible verse or be like, hey, I have time to call. I would say that’s really encouraging. And then also just like, you know, I’ll be at work and then he’ll show up and bring Dunkin’ or Subway, just like showing that even like if he can see me for 5 minutes, like it still matters. So that means a lot to me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]:
And Matt, we talked before we started today about what Olivia is doing and she’s working in healthcare right now. And I guess as you have been fathering Olivia, how do you support Olivia in pursuing her passions and her dreams?

Matt Haviland [00:16:04]:
Great question. I, first of all, I’m very impressed because Olivia has a career focus already at 20. And I know that’s not rare, but I, at 20, I mean, I was completely in the opposite direction. So I’m already just so proud of her because, I mean, she is very motivated, she’s very determined, she has an excellent work ethic. I mean, she works hard and she really respects the job that she has, even if she doesn’t like it a lot. So, so to encourage her again— Yeah, she likes her job right now, so that’s good. But to encourage her, I would say again, just listening, kind of maybe as she’s talking, processing, like, okay, what’s this going to look like in your life? Is this going to require more schooling? Sometimes I ask her questions like, how do you see this playing out long-term? If you want to get advanced in your career, what’s that going to look like? How’s that going to affect the other areas of your life? And kind of just helping her think through. You know, she doesn’t have all the weight that, you know, we as adults have right now, you know, carrying a lot of mortgages or payments or, you know, other bigger obligations.

Matt Haviland [00:17:09]:
Not to minimize what she’s doing, but—

Olivia Haviland [00:17:10]:
Right.

Matt Haviland [00:17:11]:
But she has some opportunity and some room right now to really dream, like, hey, what do I want to do for a career? And if I do change my career, that’s okay. But she has tremendous skills. I think that’s one thing, is to let her know what skills she has. She’s definitely a people person. She has a hard work ethic. She’s a great communicator. So just kind of saying, hey, these are the things you’re really good at. So where would that fit for you in your career field?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:35]:
And Olivia, if you could spend an entire day with your dad doing anything, what would it look like?

Olivia Haviland [00:17:39]:
Oh, no. No signs, no dad jokes. That would be—

Matt Haviland [00:17:44]:
You gotta explain the signs.

Olivia Haviland [00:17:46]:
He is obsessed. I will be trying, like, you know, we go to a zoo, I want to see the animals, and he’s like, oh, I want to know where the animals lived, um, where they came from, how old are they, how many, like, claws do they have, how many teeth. Like, it doesn’t matter. Like, I just— I want to see the animals. And it kind of just began as, like, a running joke. Every time he sees a sign, he sends it to me. I reply with, I’m not reading that. But I would say a perfect day, honestly, I love our beach days because he’s very— I mean, we’re like the same person.

Olivia Haviland [00:18:19]:
Like, we don’t want to get out of the water, but we’ve always played stupid games like how many times can we catch the ball in a row throwing trick shots. And then like during COVID we were hitting a ball on our roof with a tennis racket, like, and made that like a whole summer competition. So I would say just like Like little games, like beach day getaway, just the two of us. And then probably Star Wars at the end. Star Wars are an old movie, but something we do like monthly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:48]:
Sounds like a good day. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6, 6 more questions. And I usually ask them just to dads, but I’m gonna ask both of you some different questions or questions for both of you. Uh, first and foremost, Olivia, what’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:04]:
Comforting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:05]:
And Matt, what’s your word?

Matt Haviland [00:19:06]:
I’d say solid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]:
And Matt, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Matt Haviland [00:19:12]:
I think it’s honestly, it’s been in multiple forms and it’s what I’ve already mentioned. It’s just spending time with them. Other things can wait. And I’ve heard a million different quotes in that way, but it all boils down to spending undivided, just they got my attention or she has my attention. Everything else can wait and it’s just our time. So yeah, time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:33]:
And Olivia, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:37]:
I would honestly say, like, like he said earlier, the, like, talking me through it. Where can you see yourself from this? Let’s, you know, visualize what even is it gonna look like in a month versus 5 years. And I would say that’s gotten me a lot of places because before I make decisions now, I always, like, stop and think, like, hey, like, I may like it right now, but in 3 months, am I gonna like what I’m doing? In a year, am I gonna like what I’m doing? Am I gonna wanna be doing this when I’m older?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:06]:
Yeah.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:06]:
I’m 60 or 70 years old kind of thing. So I would say that’s gotten me far in a lot of places.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]:
Matt, what’s one activity that you and Olivia love doing together?

Matt Haviland [00:20:15]:
You’re gonna appreciate this one, Christopher. Going to University of Michigan football games.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:20]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
And I’m gonna throw it back to you too, Olivia. And it doesn’t have to be the same thing. It’d be something different.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:25]:
Daddy-daughter dances or like donuts with dad or anything that’s like one-on-one mini golf, golf, and football games, definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:33]:
Matt, if you could give Olivia one life lesson in a single sentence, What would it be?

Matt Haviland [00:20:37]:
Love God, love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:38]:
And Matt, what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Matt Haviland [00:20:42]:
I think—

Olivia Haviland [00:20:43]:
The girl version of you.

Matt Haviland [00:20:45]:
That too. But I would say since becoming a dad, I think you learn how the word selfish feels strong, but I don’t think it’s out of line of when it’s just us. But when it was just me as a single dad or a single man versus becoming a father, it was all about me. I tell my new guys, I think I think being a parent drives you to a level of commitment to your children that would not be attained any other way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
And Olivia, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Olivia Haviland [00:21:16]:
I would say put aside anything that can wait, and then also listen before either conversating or just listen to the full story instead of, like, interrupting, getting down to the point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:32]:
And Matt?

Matt Haviland [00:21:32]:
Yeah, I think it’s so important to live out your values and what’s important to your family. We have a culture that is in many ways just so antagonistic and assaulting our daughters, and to be able to speak against that, letting our daughters know how beautiful they are, how valued they are, their virtue, their beauty, their tenderness. And this is an appropriate conversation for whether you’re raising a 5-year-old or a 20-year-old as well.

Olivia Haviland [00:21:58]:
I would also always say time over items too, because I know A lot of my friends’ parents will be like at work because they work third shift or something. They’ll be like, here’s money to go get something because I didn’t see you all day, or here’s money because I yelled at you kind of thing, instead of just sitting down, actually talking everything out. It helps grow a relationship too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:20]:
Well, Matt, Olivia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for spending time with me today, for sharing your journey in your own relationship. Matt is an author as well, and I should mention that he did write a book a number of years back called A Father’s Walk, a Christian-based resource for single fathers. And if people want to find out more about you, Matt, and what you’re doing, where should they go?

Matt Haviland [00:22:43]:
I don’t have a website, but you can email me. I’m completely open to that. My email is afatherswalk@gmail.com. That’s a fathers with an S on the end, walk at Gmail.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:54]:
Well, again, I want to say thank you. Thank you to both of you for your time, for sharing your And I wish you both all the best.

Matt Haviland [00:23:01]:
Thanks, Christopher.

Olivia Haviland [00:23:01]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:02]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:23:33]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons. We make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child

August 10, 2026 by dadofdivas

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This week’s episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

The Power of Presence: Building Strong Bonds Between Dads and Daughters

June 22, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

What does it mean to truly connect with your daughter? That’s the central question explored in the latest episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, where Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes guest Brandon Smith for an honest, insightful and at times emotional conversation about fatherhood, mistakes, and building resilient, confident daughters.

From the start, Brandon Smith distinguishes between “intended” and “unintended” moments in parenting, emphasizing that the unscripted, everyday experiences often make the deepest impact. Whether it’s a trip for just the two of them or sitting quietly in support during a crisis, simply showing up consistently is the anchor of a strong bond. As Brandon Smith shares, “the small moments mattered the most” — a lesson he learned not only in his journey as a dad but also through the advice of other fathers.

The episode dives deep into the challenges dads face: resisting the urge to “fix” everything, sitting with difficult emotions, and learning to ask open-ended questions that give daughters the space to vent, reflect, and find their own solutions. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Brandon Smith steer the conversation toward agency, urging fathers to build their daughters’ confidence and resilience by empowering them to make decisions — even allowing for failure as an important part of growth.

It’s not about being perfect. It’s about being truly present — listening, apologizing when you get it wrong, and making your child a priority. Brandon Smith reminds listeners that kids are far more forgiving than we think, as long as we’re willing to acknowledge our mistakes and keep trying. Traditions, whether as simple as a regular dinner or a unique holiday ritual, also play a role in creating a safe foundation daughters can count on, even as they gain independence.

Fathers of daughters — whether your relationship is close or still growing, this episode of “Dad and Daughter Connection” is packed with real advice, vulnerable stories, and practical tips to help you show up as the dad your daughter needs.

Ready to deepen your connection? Tune in to the full episode and join Dr. Christopher Lewis and Brandon Smith on the journey to raising strong, independent women.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love that you come back. You come back to learn, to grow and to find new ways to be able to build those intentional connections with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]:
And it’s so important because we have to show up. We’ve got to show up every day. We’ve got to learn from the things we do well. We got to learn from the things that we mess up on as well, because there’s going to be times that are going to go perfectly and then other times where we’ll. They may be an epic fail. And that’s okay. That the fact that you do show up, the fact that you do come back and you’re willing to, to learn and to hear others stories about their journeys says a lot about you and it says a lot about where you want to be as a father. This podcast is here to give you some help, some perspective, some thoughts on fatherhood.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]:
Every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone through their own fatherhood journey and they’re still going through their fatherhood journey. And today we got another great guest. Brandon Smith is with us today and Brandon is a return guest, I’m going to say, in some aspects, not he wasn’t a return guest from this podcast, but for those of you that have been listening to me for a while, you know that I had another podcast called Dads with Daughters, and Brandon’s a past guest from that show. So if you want to find that episode, go over to fathering together, you can check that out. It’s still out there. And he’ll add some hot sauce to your fatherhood as well. And I’ll leave it at that because and tease that out. But I’m really excited to be able to have Brandon on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]:
We’re going to be talking about his own journey with his daughter. And I look forward for you to get to know him as well. Brandon, thanks so much for being here today.

Brandon Smith [00:02:33]:
Chris. I’m thrilled to be on and I love, I love what we’re going to be talking about here today. I’m very, very passionate about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:38]:
You know, one of the things that I love starting off with when I think about fatherhood is all of us as dads want to create those meaningful moments where we, we truly are able to, to connect with our daughters. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Brandon Smith [00:02:58]:
So I’m going to answer that in two ways. So there was the intended moments where you get to plan them, but then there’s the unintended moments that you, that you don’t get to plan them. I would argue the unintended moments are probably more impactful. But let’s talk about the intended moments. So I’ve got three kids. My daughter Abby is my oldest. She’s 24. She’s graduated, working a full time job.

Brandon Smith [00:03:18]:
She’s doing great. We’ll talk more about that then. I have a son who’s Noah, who’s 21, and then a son Aaron, who’s 18. Well, whenever my kids were 12, I would always take them, just me and that kiddo, to Disney World, just me and that one kid. So we could just do whatever they want to do. They didn’t have to negotiate rides and restaurants with their siblings. And we just get that time together. And I kind of kept that tradition going with Abby.

Brandon Smith [00:03:38]:
So when she went off to University of Georgia, she was in a sorority. The nice thing about sororities is they have a lot of planned events. So they’ve got like parent weekends, but then they have mommy daughter weekend and then they have a daddy daughter weekend. So I did that with her every year. So there was always times I was going there, just me and her for weekends and time together. And then even during her summers when she was doing internships and things, you know, she would, we would find time for just she and I to meet up in the city some where and just kind of explore together. So there was those schedule times which I think were really, really important. I would argue that the most important times were the times when she was in crisis.

Brandon Smith [00:04:11]:
And I just sat with her. I was just with her, just being present, not trying to solve it, not trying to offer advice, just sit and listen. And that’s really hard now to be fair. We haven’t Talked much about my background. I have a slightly unfair advantage. I was trained as a clinical therapist, so I do bring that to bear. So I know how to ask questions and listen and do kind of reflective, which does help. But I think those moments were probably the most important, and there were several.

Brandon Smith [00:04:38]:
There was one where when she was graduating from college and there had been a death in her sorority, it really rattled my daughter. And on top of that, she had broken her leg, and she was a big runner, so she couldn’t run. That was her stress relief. Let me tell you, Chris, I’m not sure if I’d want to go relive that weekend with her, but it was an impactful one because I just got to sit there with her while she just kind of raged and vented and just had all those emotions just kind of flood. I once heard somewhere that part of the role of the difference between kind of dads and daughters, or men and women, husbands and wives, and in those dynamics, women are often like the waves of the ocean. They kind of come and go. And sometimes when two. When a wife and a daughter kind of come together, sometimes those waves can create some storms.

Brandon Smith [00:05:18]:
Men are kind of like the rock wall on the side of the coast, and the water’s supposed to kind of hit it, but not move it. So we’re kind of almost supposed to be there kind of that steady, steady, consistent force. I don’t know why that image has always stood out for me, but I know that there’s been moments when I’ve been that kind of that. That rock wall and just allowed her to just kind of vent and rage and not be overwhelmed by that. The most impactful. So a long answer to your question, my friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]:
Not a problem at all. You know, I have heard what you said earlier about being willing to just sit and listen from many people and not to solve. And that’s not an easy thing for dads to always do. It tends to take a little bit of reprogramming in our brains to be able to get to that point. Talk to me about that for yourself. And I know you said you have a unfair advantage, so maybe you can give some advice for dads that are struggling with that in regards to what either you had to do or what you might recommend that dads do, to be able to reprogram their brains, to be able to be more of those quiet listeners versus the solvers.

Brandon Smith [00:06:20]:
I think the first thing is to recognize that those emotions don’t mean that something’s broken or something’s wrong. So the Things that we want to not do is either jump in and say, no, you must not feel this way. You must feel this way. Trying to change what they’re feeling. Not a good idea. That’s really bad. Dads and daughters, moms and daughters, not good. You don’t want to do that.

Brandon Smith [00:06:38]:
Second, it’s okay to sit in that discomfort. I know it was my own case of. With my father, he was very different. He could not handle any kind of uncomfortable emotion at all. There was if I. If you just got excited and passionate about a topic at dinner, he’d get up and leave the dinner table. He’s gonna handle it. And my entire life, if I talked to my dad, he’d stick his hand out in my face, wave it back and forth, and he’d say, stop talking.

Brandon Smith [00:06:57]:
None of my business. He really just couldn’t handle that. So I would encourage dads first to just be okay with sitting there. You don’t have to fix it. And. And that negative energy isn’t going to hurt you or hurt them. We need to give them a safe space to let it out. So that’s first.

Brandon Smith [00:07:14]:
Second step. How do you help them let it out? It’s by asking a lot of questions and just reflecting back. Just. Just by saying things like that sounds really hard. How are you doing with that? And just letting them go or say, wow, that is just. That’s a lot. Or one of the great therapist lines, which you can always use in your playbook, works really well in life. Say more about that.

Brandon Smith [00:07:32]:
You can never go wrong with. Just say more about that. And you can start off by saying that. That guys, that sounds really hard. Say more about that. What’s the hardest part? So really sit in it now. Where dads are going to go wrong. Another part where they’re going to go wrong is they’re going to go, so how do you think we need to fix it? You don’t need to do that.

Brandon Smith [00:07:46]:
You don’t need to jump to fixing it. Just let them go. Let them go until that energy really starts to wane. Now, to be fair, my daughter’s grown up with me, and she has very good skills like this. So there’s times I was doing that with her on that moment, I told you, and she said to me, I know what you’re doing. Stop it. So I had to pivot. And one of the ways for my daughter that works really well is when I then get vulnerable, talk about something I’m struggling with in my life, or I get really kind of authentic.

Brandon Smith [00:08:12]:
She connects really well to that my daughter has never done, she came out this way. She’s never done well with people being not performative but, but, but not being real, not really saying what’s really going on. She cannot handle that. So she actually does really well with me just kind of being open and honest and just calling things the way they are. That actually settles her down. So just having some more of that honest dialog and just being present and not trying to change it. I think those are, those are the moments. And she’ll say today, she’ll say, you know, one of the things I’m most proud of, she’ll say if Brandon Smith me says he’s going to be there, he’s going to be there.

Brandon Smith [00:08:42]:
And as a dad that’s really meaningful. I’m feel myself even getting tearing up a little bit just saying that because what dad doesn’t want to hear their kiddo say that? So I would say those are probably two good tips. Just learning to be comfortable in that and then learning how to just ask questions to help it release. By helping it release, you’re fixing it. So I think that’s probably the last thing I’d say. For dads, you don’t have to have a plan of action with three steps or five steps or a phone call you’re going to make today. It doesn’t have to be that clear cut. Just by helping that emotion go, it’ll make a difference.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:08]:
As our daughters are born, for many years they, they rely so much on us and as they get old they become more and more independent. How did you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence that she needed to be able to grow into the person that she has become?

Brandon Smith [00:09:28]:
It’s a really good question. And this is where we often. So in my professional world, I take a lot of my coaching background and my counseling background and bring it into the workplace and helping leaders get better and those sorts of things. Do a lot of executive coaching kind of work and, and what I think makes this so challenging, it’s kind of like leadership is an art and a science. Parenting is an art and a science. I mean every, every K is a little different. Every situation’s a little different. There’s no one size fits all.

Brandon Smith [00:09:51]:
Sometimes you got to pivot with your recipe. And so where it’s tricky is I’m always trying as a parent, I’m always trying to instill agency. It’s my favorite word. If you ask me, my favorite word on this planet is it’s agency. And for those of you that don’t kind of know the word agency. What we’re talking about when we’re talking about agency for a person, when you have a sense of agency, it’s almost like you tell yourself, I’m enough in the world. I’m not perfect. No one’s perfect.

Brandon Smith [00:10:13]:
But I’m enough. I can get through it. And we have high levels of agency. We have competence and confidence, and we have resilient, and we handle change well. Change doesn’t overwhelm us. What we don’t have when we have high levels of agency is heightened anxiety. Anxiety is the absence of agency. So if you got a really anxious kiddo, just really fearful, kind of struggling with dealing with life, agency is a great antidote.

Brandon Smith [00:10:35]:
I’m always trying to instill that. So the way you instill that is you ask a lot of questions. So, wow, that sounds really hard. Well, what do you think you can do about that? What do you. What do you think you need to do? How do you think you can solve that? How can I help you with that? But you’re. But you’re putting the answers, you’re putting the solutioning, you’re putting the authorship on that, kiddo. So book I published in 2022 is called the author versus editor dilemma. That’s a lot to do with workplaces and leadership and management.

Brandon Smith [00:10:57]:
But I always do a chapter in every one of my books on parenting, and there’s even a chapter in Author editor about that. Like, when should I sit in the author seat and tell them what to do? When should I sit in the editor seat and they tell me what they’re going to do and then I can respond to that. So you want them to have that agency, all solutions to problems. That sometimes means they’re going to fail, and that is okay. Where we need to kind of watch closely is we don’t want the failure to be catastrophic. Failures are good. That’s when you learn. We learn the most in times of failure.

Brandon Smith [00:11:22]:
My midd kiddo, he just went through the college internship process this year. It’s been really tough on college students and interns to find internships this year. It’s a tougher cycle. He had a couple lined up. He waited too long. The offers exploded on him and he had to scramble. And my wife and I were thinking how we could help him. Well, he ended up coming up with an internship on his own.

Brandon Smith [00:11:40]:
He found one, and he’s loving it. And I think the fact he recovered on his own, I mean, that’s really what you want. You Want that level of agency. So all that to say, you know, you’re trying to equip them to solve problems on their own. You’re going to support them. And even when my kids were little, they come home and say, oh, the teacher’s being me. The teacher’s bullying me. It triggers that inner parenting instinct.

Brandon Smith [00:11:58]:
You want to jump in and say, talk to that teacher. I always stopped myself and said, I’m not going to do that. And I would say, what conversation do you think you need to have? I know you can do it. I believe in you. And I said, I’ve got your back. I’ve got air cover for you. It doesn’t go well, you can call dad. Dad will jump in.

Brandon Smith [00:12:12]:
Dad will fix it, but why don’t you take the first crack? I did it with all my kids. I never had to have a conversation with the teacher. They would go back and they had it on their own because I was trying to again equip them to the agency. And also, those are great skills. You’re gonna have to have a conversation with your boss one day. Why don’t you learn that now? So then when you have to neg negotiate your salary or say you can’t work on the weekend, you learn how to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:30]:
Those are great examples. And I think, you know, I’ve. I feel like I’m going through a lot of those myself with my daughter that’s in college right now and figuring out, okay, where do I push, where do I pull, where do I just sit back? And that as you kind of talked about the author role or not. And so that’s always a challenge. And I think it always continues to be a challenge as you sit back and you’re like, I’ve been there. I’ve done that. You can learn from me, but you may need to make these mistakes yourself. And I get that too now, talking about intentional things and thinking in my head of what you just said.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]:
Some of the things that we do are very intentional. What are some intentional ways that you’ve worked throughout your daughter’s life to be able to strengthen that bond that you had with her, especially during those challenging times.

Brandon Smith [00:13:16]:
So my daughter’s a lot like a cat. You have to let her come to you. If you try and go to her too quickly, it’s not going to go very well. So being intentional, I think, is really important. I will say this. I think going back to the word agency, I often joke with my wife. My daughter kind of came out of the womb just frustrated because she didn’t have any agency because she’s 4 and she wants to do stuff. She’s 8 and she wants to do stuff.

Brandon Smith [00:13:36]:
She’s 12 and she wants to do stuff, and she can’t. And it got frustrated. Well, now she’s 24 and she works for a consulting firm, and she can do all the stuff. So I think that’s helped a lot. But I will say the hardest time for us was probably those high school years where it was the most pressure. And every year she went off to college, her feelings towards us improved, her connection towards us improved on her own, she made those things happen because I think she was just seeing her friends and some of their dynamics with their parents, and she realized we’re not so bad. And every time she called, we always made that time for her. So she calls my wife every day.

Brandon Smith [00:14:10]:
She talks to my wife every day. But she knows she can call me and I will drop whatever I’m doing if she calls me. So I think part of it is just being present with her, not being too pushy, but, you know, letting her come to me. The other thing was I always schedule time with her, and I always tell her, you are one of the most important people and most important relationships in my life. I really want to make sure we get to spend time together. And I find things that my kids like. My daughter likes to go to nice restaurants. She likes to try new food.

Brandon Smith [00:14:32]:
So we’ll go try the local Portuguese restaurant, or we’ll try the Persian restaurant or whatever happens to be. And so now that she’s on her own and she’s figuring out career stuff and life stuff, we try to do quarterly dinners. So we’ll do quarterly dinner. She’s still in Atlanta. I live in Atlanta. So we’ll meet up for dinner somewhere and just have a nice dinner and just talk about life, Talk about her career, her boyfriend, all the other things. I think it’s a little bit of both. It’s always kind of being there when they want to come to you.

Brandon Smith [00:14:57]:
That’s an intention and making them a priority. So that’s kind of more of a firefighter on call kind of intention. When the phone rings, I answer it. But there’s also keeping that connected. And I think when you plan something with someone, you’re signaling to them that they’re a priority. So when I tell my daughter, you mean a lot to me, and our relationship is very meaningful. I want to spend time with you. I’d love to take you out to dinner.

Brandon Smith [00:15:15]:
She never turns me down. So those are Some examples.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]:
I love those examples. And I try to have similar things with my own daughters. And I know that it makes a difference. Sometimes they say it, sometimes they don’t. And you have to know that. That you just have to realize that even if they don’t say it, it still matters. Now, none of us are perfect. We all make m mistakes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:37]:
What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughter?

Brandon Smith [00:15:44]:
Oh, goodness. I’m going through my very large inventory of mistakes, Chris. So if I’m pausing, it’s because, wow, kind of a lot. Well, I would say I’ve done the opposite of a lot of things I’ve said. Like, I pushed on her too hard, pushed on solutions, pushed, pushed on answers, pushed for answers. That doesn’t go well with her. So that’s not good. But on the flip side, sometimes I don’t come to her when she’s upset.

Brandon Smith [00:16:06]:
That gets her really mad. So if she’s upset, upset, and she’s sending all the signals that she’s upset, and I’m not going to her saying, hey, you seem upset. And maybe I just don’t want to deal with it. I’m going to be honest. Maybe it’s just one of those times where I’m really tired. I don’t have much in the tank. Like, I can’t deal with her just, you know, her upsetness today, that makes her more angry because I’m not coming to her and acknowledging how she’s feeling. So I think there’s a lot around those things.

Brandon Smith [00:16:27]:
Yeah, it’s tricky. Parenting is such a startup experience. Fail fast or fail forward. You’re always trying to adjust. So, you know, I can tell you another great example, like when she was in high school and applying to colleges and she wasn’t getting the SAT score she wanted and she had one last shot, I mean, take the sat and like, I think it was October of your junior year last time. She could really take it and have it count. And she was procrastinating on studying for that, studying for that, studying for that. And whether this was good or bad to me, I’m not sure.

Brandon Smith [00:16:52]:
But I finally told her, I said, look, you don’t have to study for it. You can keep your same SAT scores, and then you’re going to go to this slate of colleges and they’re all perfectly fine. But if you want to go to this slate of colleges, you’re going to need to get that SAT score up. So you’re going to make a choice. And I said, if you want to go here, you’re going to have to do some studying, which means you can’t go off doing brunches on the weekend with your friends. You can’t do that. You got studying to do. You’re running out of time.

Brandon Smith [00:17:12]:
Time. Well, she went off. She said she wanted to do that. She wanted the other schools. She wanted a better score, but she kept doing the brunches. So finally, I had to go in one day and say, I’m sorry, Abby. I hate to do this. I’m your dad.

Brandon Smith [00:17:22]:
I want to honor your request of what you want. I’m grounding you for the next two weeks. You’re going nowhere. You can study. That’s what you can do. Now, I don’t know if that was the right decision or not. She did end up getting the score that she needed at the end of the day, so just barely by the skin of her teeth, but she got that score. But that was an example where I had to step in and ground her on something that she said she wanted, but she wasn’t living up to her own expectations of herself.

Brandon Smith [00:17:45]:
So. I don’t know. Plenty of times I’ve lost my temper with my kids. But I will say this. One of the big things I did learn in life is your kids really want to have a relationship with you. They are actually way more forgiving than we give them credit for. But they will not be forgiving if you don’t apologize. You have to be the first one to go say, I’m sorry.

Brandon Smith [00:18:02]:
Dad screwed up. I shouldn’t have handled it the way I did. I promise I’m not going to do that again going forward. And she. And she had a moment with me a few years ago. It was Christmas, and my wife and I were kind of in a little bit of a spat. And it was happening on Christmas Day, and my daughter was not happy about that. And so she came over to me and she pulled me aside, and she’s like, what’s going on? She was really upset, and I committed to her.

Brandon Smith [00:18:20]:
I said, I’m sorry. You’re right. This shouldn’t be happening on Christmas Day. I’m going to fix it. It’s not going to happen again. And that’s what I did. But you got to be willing to say you’re sorry, and you’re got to be willing to adjust. And if you do that, our kids aren’t expecting perfect from us.

Brandon Smith [00:18:31]:
They’re expecting, like, that effort that we’re trying so when you say you’re going to make a change, you make the change. But they don’t expect perfect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:37]:
And what do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Brandon Smith [00:18:43]:
I saw an interview with Reese Wither Witherspoon at some point and she, she made a comment and dad, the words that a dad says to their daughter, it’s like permanent marker on their brain. And so I always want to feed her in that way. My daughter, you know, she doesn’t have a lot of money, but she likes to kind of get good fashion. So there’s like you could all these services, you rent clothes and she’ll run clothes, she’ll come downstairs and she’ll be wearing a new dress. And I’ll say, oh Abby, that dress is beautiful on you. You look absolutely just beautiful. And she’s like, oh, thanks dad. But I know that’s, I know that’s feeding into her self conscious and her level of confidence about herself or self talk.

Brandon Smith [00:19:15]:
I always tell her, you’ve got great skills, you’ve got great intuition on people. So I really look, lift up and reinforce her strengths. So not only does she feel kind of seen, but I’m also trying to tell her, you’ve got some great things, don’t lose those. So those are things I really try to be intentional about in my talk with her and also trying to give her support and guidance. Now sometimes it also means not answering her questions. So the recent one she was doing was she’s got a boyfriend who she really likes and we really like. And she’s asking me, she’s saying, dad, I mean, what do you think? I mean really, what do you think? I mean, do you think he’s a good fit for me? I mean, and we like him. And she had a particular thing she was asking about.

Brandon Smith [00:19:49]:
I said, you know, Abby, that’s not my answer. That’s not for me to answer. It’s a question for you to answer. And I laid out some scenarios and things for her. I said, but it’s not for me. She kept pushing on me, pushing on, trying to get me. I wouldn’t answer. I wouldn’t, wouldn’t answer.

Brandon Smith [00:20:00]:
A few days later she came to my wife and she said, tell dad I’m sorry for pushing him so hard. I was having a, it’s one of the phrases that you probably heard your daughter say recently. She’s like, I was having a crash out and I was pushing dad a little too hard and I, I shouldn’t have been telling actually everything’s okay. I’m fine with my boyfriend. So I think knowing sometimes when not to insert your opinions is also important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
You don’t want to have those insert foot in mouth moments as you’re talking to your daughters and, or having to backpedal. So sometimes being silent or as you said, kind of pushing back and allowing for them to work it through probably makes a lot of sense.

Brandon Smith [00:20:36]:
It reminds me there was a Seinfeld episode where, you know, I think, I can’t remember, maybe Kramer had a girlfriend that no one liked. And so they all told him he broke up and we’re like, oh, we don’t like your girlfriend. And then they got back together. Then now it was awkward because they told Kramer we don’t like your girlfriend. But now he’s back with her girlfriend. So I think there’s times when you just have to some things or for them to figure out. And frankly, if she’s happy, that’s, I mean, that’s one of the things we’re going for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:00]:
And how did you support your daughter in pursuing her passion and dreams?

Brandon Smith [00:21:04]:
It’s a challenging one. So in high school, she would come at my wife and me and she’d say, you guys put high expectations on me. You hold me an unfair standard. And it’s funny, Chris, we never did. We never did. We never did. My wife and I are little, a little Gen X in how we raise our kids. We’re a little, wouldn’t say feral, but a little more.

Brandon Smith [00:21:23]:
More like that in this way. We Never had life, 360 on any of our kids. We didn’t track them where they go. We never, once they got into high school, we never looked at the report cards again. Now I’ve never seen a report card for my kids in high school or college because what I told them was I said, your grades are your grades. And my expectation is you work hard and own and be proud of whatever grade you get. If you got a C and you didn’t work hard, then decide to make an adjustment. But if you got a C and you gave it everything you got, that’s great.

Brandon Smith [00:21:47]:
So I think part of it is setting that, pushing kind of that ownership and agency properly on them. It’s your life. Your grades are the beginning of that, but it’s just going to evolve into more decisions that are yours. I think the second thing is I’m always trying to remind her and reinforce to her what her natural gifts are, what her natural gifts and talents. I think so hard she’s trying to fit herself into a box. Like when she was in high school, she took a lot of computer science classes because she thought, oh, I’m a girl, I should take computer science classes because it’ll round me out. It was not her love language. It’s not her love language and she would tell you that.

Brandon Smith [00:22:17]:
But she has a lot of great love languages that she’s really passionate about. And I’m always trying to remind her of that because she’s in this early part of her career where she’s trying to figure out what does she want her career to look like. And so I’m trying to encourage her to pursue those areas where she says more natural strengths and passions because it will. It’ll play out in a much, much more fulfilling way for her. So I think it’s just lifting those things up. That doesn’t always mean that she hears it in the moment. I think that’s another important thing too. Like, if dads are looking for kind of, I do this and I get an immediate kind of response.

Brandon Smith [00:22:47]:
It’s not, it’s not like that. I often, I’ll chat in my author editor book and you want to talk to my clients when they’re like, doing too much for their teams. I’ll say to them, are you trying to win an mvp? Are you trying to win a world championship? Because are two very different muscles. And I think sometimes as dads, we’re trying to win MVPs, like, we want the immediate hug and the gratification in the moment, like we just scored a touchdown. And really we should probably be thinking about more like winning a world championship because, like, those are lag indicators. You don’t really know how well you’re doing until you start to get further into the season. Then you got to get in the playoffs. So touchdowns don’t.

Brandon Smith [00:23:18]:
The touchdown itself doesn’t really matter. So I’m getting more of the payoff way after the fact from her. Not in the moment. And sometimes she’ll dismiss my comments in the moment. But I know I’m planting seeds.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:27]:
What’s one way you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Brandon Smith [00:23:31]:
I would say the simple answer is if she knows. And she’s very respectful of this. She knows if she calls me during the day, I’m going to answer as quickly as I can. If I have to call her back, I will. And I will then clear my calendar to whenever she wants to talk. I will cancel other business calls that I have to make that time for her. Now she does, she does not abuse that. She’s very, very respectful of that and sometimes I’ll tell her I’m tied up, I can’t have a public, let’s talk tonight.

Brandon Smith [00:23:55]:
But I always try and make her a priority when she needs to talk. And so I think that’s the number one way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]:
And when you think back to relationship with your daughter in the past now, what’s a tradition or routine that you’ve created together that really strengthens your bond?

Brandon Smith [00:24:12]:
I think there’s a couple, one for sure is are just going out to dinner together. We love to do that and traveling together. When my daughter and I did our 12 year old trip to Disney, we stayed at a different kind of Disney hotel. And we just walked around all the hotels one night and she picked out what she’s like, oh, I love this one. We should stay here from now on as a family. And sure enough, that’s what we started doing. So I think finding things that your daughter likes that you can share with her is really good. And that can be a variety of things.

Brandon Smith [00:24:36]:
My daughter, she likes sporting events because she likes to sit with people that she cares about and have conversations, but she doesn’t actually care about the event itself. But she’ll go because she likes to have that time together. I think finding those things that we can do, I think are definitely one. And then we have other traditions that we’ve always done as a family, which she actually appreciates. We always try to have dinner together as a family as much as we could. We thought this was normal. Apparently it’s weird. We live in Atlanta, so we live in the Southeast, but every Christmas Eve after church we go to Waffle House.

Brandon Smith [00:25:02]:
Waffle Houses are Christmas Eve tradition. And just things like that that she really likes, I think it provides a lot of that stability. I’ll also say, like as I mentioned to you before, my daughter was never very touchy feely. Like she was never like daddy’s little girl in the sense that she just worshiped me and always wanted to spend time with me. But that has gotten more and more as she’s gotten older. Last time she was over to her house, she gave me probably three hugs before she left the house. And so I do think that, you know, it’s definitely a marathon and a long race, more like trying to win a world championship than it is winning an mvp.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:31]:
Now we always finish our interview with what I like to call our dad connection. Six, six more questions that delve into you as a dad. Are you ready? What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Brandon Smith [00:25:42]:
And this isn’t Meant to be creepy, but I really like this word. It’s intimate. We cover the can. I’m open and honest and things I’m kind of working through. She’s open and honest with things she’s working through. So there’s just a commitment, openness with sharing. Kind of our. We’re very authentic.

Brandon Smith [00:25:54]:
We’re vulnerable. We share needs and wants. We just, we’re just have a very open relationship. So I would say that what’s the

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:59]:
best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Brandon Smith [00:26:04]:
I would say the best piece of d. Bad advice I ever received actually came from a client of mine. And it was because he had worked a very long career with a big company. It’s a privately held company. He wasn’t going to get the CEO job. He was right below it. So he decided to retire and he traveled all the time. And one day his kids told him and he made it a point.

Brandon Smith [00:26:22]:
He was like, I was always going to be there for the big events. I’m always going to be there for the soccer matches and the award ceremonies. And he would fly back in town, he’d go to those events and he thought like, ah, being a great dad. And then his son one day said to him, he said, dad, you were always there for the big moments, but you were never there for the small ones. And the small ones mattered the most. O so I do think the soccer matches really don’t matter. They really don’t. The dining room table, that matters more.

Brandon Smith [00:26:45]:
The being able to like go in your kids room when they’re sad and crying and just sit with them. That matters way more than seeing their baseball tournament or their dance recital. I’m not saying those things are bad. I’m not saying you should dismiss them. But it’s not the same thing because frankly we over index on that stuff. We’re like, ah, I was with them. Dance recital. You were sitting in an Auditorium.

Brandon Smith [00:27:03]:
Auditorium 20ft away from your kid. You weren’t talking to them, they weren’t talking to you. They were doing something and you were watching. It’s not much different than watching your kid play video games. It’s really not any different. It’s not connected. But we tend to think it’s some kind of connection. So I think those small moments are the key.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Brandon Smith [00:27:21]:
Definitely restaurants. That’s an easy one to plug in. Travel. She’s always game for travel. So if I said let’s go to a city and then I’ll and I let her plan it, and we go around and do things. Things, that’s great. So I think those are things that she loves to do that I like to do, too. So those are the two big ones.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Brandon Smith [00:27:39]:
Be true to yourself. It’s probably cliche, but what that really means is understand how you’re hardwired and find a swim lane that honors that. Life’s much easier and more fulfilling. If you go in the direction of the current, you’re already wired to go down. If you try and force it and fake it and go down another path, you’re not going to be happy. If you try and chase other things, you’re also not going to be happy. So I think just finding, really get a good understanding of who you are, figure out, plug that into the world, you’re going to feel a lot, a lot better. And I think that’s hard for daughters today because there’s a lot of pressure.

Brandon Smith [00:28:06]:
You should be a career woman, and you should put off having kids. And that is a choice for some women. They can do that. But some women might decide, I want to have a family. And there’s not as, maybe as much discussion and balanced conversation on different options for women. So I think today, ironically, it’s kind of like almost gone the other way. It’s like, you got to have a career, you got to make as much money as possible. And I know she’s felt pressured to do that, and she’s adjusting what she wants, so being able to help in that process.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]:
And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Brandon Smith [00:28:38]:
Two quick ones. So first I would say tell them that. Tell them that I want to build a relationship with you. You are one of the most important people in my life. I would love to explore what that might look like or how we could do that. So I think that’s one second that I mentioned earlier. The secret sauce to all this is being able to apologize. That’s the equivalent of fail fast in the entrepreneurial world or fail forward.

Brandon Smith [00:28:56]:
Apologize dies quickly. When you make a mistake, go in quickly and be like, I screwed up. Dad screwed up. I’m sorry. Here’s why it happened. But it’s not going to happen again. They will quickly forgive you. But if you don’t do that, that emotion will see them fester.

Brandon Smith [00:29:08]:
And then that’s when you get World War iii. And daughters are good at waging World War iii. If necessary so you can avoid that with a quick apology.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:16]:
Now, if people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Brandon Smith [00:29:20]:
Yeah, the simplest place is just Google the workplace therapist. That’s my handle. So you can Google the workplace therapist. I’m the only one. Well, there’s one other person in Australia now, but I’m the only other one. So you’ll look for the guy not in Australia and you’ll find me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]:
Well, Brandon, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for sharing this journey that you’ve been on with your daughter. I know it’s not over, it’s definitely going to just continue. But I truly want to say thank you for sharing this and I wish you all the best.

Brandon Smith [00:29:49]:
Thank you. Thank you for all the great work you do for dads out there trying to be better. So thank you for having me. That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:06]:
It’s about being present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]:
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer

We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents? Bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them Be the best, best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can be.

Listening, Laughing, Loving: How to Be the Dad She Really Needs

May 25, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Building a strong, lasting relationship with your daughter is a journey—one filled with challenges, humor, and countless meaningful moments. In the latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with dedicated father Charlie Davis and his tween daughter, Harper, to explore what it really takes to foster connection, confidence, and independence in young women.

This week Charlie Davis shares how creating traditions—like their annual “Daddy Daughter Dance” outings—has become a cornerstone in their relationship. These shared rituals become “core memories,” strengthening their bond year after year.

Navigating the tween years brings new challenges. Charlie Davis talks openly about balancing guidance with granting independence, highlighting the importance of giving daughters space to make decisions and learn from them. He reflects on the need for gentle communication, admitting that a softer approach encourages frank discussions and helps avoid misunderstandings.

Supporting individual passions emerged as another vital theme. For Harper, a love of animals is front and center, and her parents actively support her interests—arranging shadow days at the local veterinary clinic and fostering her involvement in horseback riding. This affirmation and encouragement empower her to pursue her dreams.

What truly shines in this episode is the warmth and humor that permeates Charlie Davis and Harper’s relationship. Whether it’s inside jokes (“be careful!” before bed), binge-watching favorite shows, or simply running errands together, these small moments add up to a profound sense of closeness and trust.

The advice offered is relatable and actionable for dads everywhere: Be present, listen actively, don’t take yourself too seriously, and never underestimate the power of laughter. Most of all, remember that daughters are always listening, so choose your words and actions with care.

If you’re a dad looking for inspiration to deepen your connection with your daughter, tune in to this heartfelt episode. Full of personal stories and practical gems, it’s a must-listen for anyone striving to “be the dad she needs.” Listen now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and keep building those lifelong bonds!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with one another, to work with one another and, and for you to be able to take something tangible, something tangible out of every episode so that you have an opportunity to be able to build some tools for your toolbox. Learning from others and finding some things that might allow you to build that type of relationship that you want to have with your daughter. That’s why I love that you’re here every week, because every week you are showing up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:21]:
You’re showing up to be able to learn, to grow and you are doing what you have to do to be able to build on those relationships. We don’t always do it right. There’s going to be times when we trip. That’s okay. What’s important is that you do keep showing up and that’s why this show exists. This show exists to help you to be able to do just that. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that will provide you with some of their own experiences, some that might work for you and some might not. But it’s good to be able to hear and experience and learn from other people in that way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:
Today we got another great guest. Charlie Davis is with us today. Charlie is a father of a daughter. He has almost 12 year old daughter and we’re going to be. And she may pop her head in, in just a little bit and, and talk to us a little bit as well. But I’m really excited to be able to have Charlie on today and to introduce him to you. Charlie, thanks so much for being here today.

Charlie Davis [00:02:13]:
Absolutely. Glad to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:14]:
You know, first and foremost, Charlie, I guess one of the questions that I want to be able to start with is that every one of us as fathers love to be able to create those moments, those meaningful moments that are Ones that our daughters remember and allow for us to build those bonds. What is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughter thus far and what made it so special?

Charlie Davis [00:02:36]:
I’d say it’s kind of a repeat moment, but we try to do it annually. We try to take. We try to take the time to make sure that, you know, we spend some individual time together. But she had, you know, with her older brother and their mom and everything. But every year, there’s a particular moment where we try to attend the annual Daddy Daughter Dance. And that is something that we have kind of made a tradition. She hasn’t grown out of it yet. She actually still enjoys going with me.

Charlie Davis [00:03:01]:
So that part’s great. It’s an evening that we can just take to ourselves and just her and myself and we’ll go out to dinner. Usually it’s the same place. We have a particular restaurant we like to go to. It’s an Italian place, particularly for the overly large piece of chocolate cake that we have every time that we go each year. And it’s just a memory, kind of a core memory that sticks, that, you know, she brings up from occasion and even reminds me to make sure that I look to see when the next dance is coming up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:26]:
It’s always important when you have those type of moments. I remember going to the dances with my own daughters, and it was always so fun to be able to share those times and to have those special moments in that regard. And your daughter is now getting into those tween years, and there is going to be that inevitable push to get more independence. How do you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into the person she’s becoming?

Charlie Davis [00:03:51]:
Well, to tell you the truth, with her in particular, it’s been a little easier than I expected. I don’t expect it to always be that way. But she’s had a sense of independence for a while anyway. She’s not one that runs around in large crowds, you know, all the time, wants to be away from the house a lot. She’s very much into reading. She actually prefers to do that with her free time most of the time. But the biggest balance is me being able to take a step back and let her live basically like you. Let her make some choices on her own, you know, within reason, and just kind of see how she does with those choices now to kind of evaluate how she may approach certain larger decisions later in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:30]:
None of us as dads are perfect. We are fallible. We’re humans. We make Mistakes. What’s a mistake you made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive communication with your daughter?

Charlie Davis [00:04:41]:
Well, I learned very quickly that I have to speak and approach her very differently than her older brother. I could be a little more firm with him than I can with her. I can still be firm to a degree with her when need be, but for the most part with her it is. I’ve learned that I need to approach it with a gentler tone a lot of the times, just to kind of step back, kind of lower the tone basically and approach her in a more conversational manner so that she can actually be calm in her response back to me. And we can actually foster communication that way as opposed to it just being an argument or one sided. And we actually accomplish a lot more that way than we do by just a one sided, angry parent coming at you, telling you what to do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:22]:
And what do you do to intentionally make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Charlie Davis [00:05:29]:
Well, we definitely have had to try to work. I know our whole family is guilty of this on occasion, but especially whenever they have something, you know, we’re having a group conversation as a family and they start to speak and you make sure you don’t speak over them. You don’t interrupt and cut it off because you know you’ve got a particular point that you’re trying to make. You just make sure that they’re literally heard in, in those moments. Let them finish their thoughts and then actively engage in whatever comment that they made, you know, whatever your feedback may be to that to let them know that you’re engaged in the conversation and that they are heard.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:00]:
And I know we talked beforehand about some of the things that she really likes when we were chatting about you coming on the show. And all of our daughters have their own passions, their own dreams, the things that light them up. You talked about her reading. How do you support your daughter in pursuing her passion and dreams?

Charlie Davis [00:06:17]:
Well, actually for the most part right now. Besides, I mean, reading is definitely one of her favorite hobbies. But as far as a passion, she is all about animals, all things animals. She has a love for every animal that exists. And there’s a shadow day coming up for, you know, particular careers and things like that. And we have a good relationship with our veterinarian and she’s probably going to end up going shadowing there and working with the animals for the day. We have been out to the, the animal shelter several times for a particular dog that we saved a couple years ago to go visit and she’s also involved in horseback riding, which, you know, another completely different animal. Literally.

Charlie Davis [00:06:56]:
But anything that involves animals that she can actually do something positive with or make an impact, we make sure to get her there, let her know about those upcoming events so she can participate.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:06]:
Hello. Well, Harper, thanks so much for being on the show. I really appreciate you sharing your voice. Can you share a favorite memory with your dad that’s really made you feel close to him?

Speaker D [00:07:17]:
I played basketball with him this weekend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:20]:
It sounds like fun. Sounds like a lot of fun. I heard you love reading books. And has your dad done anything to be able to help you, kind of to foster that reading in you over the years?

Speaker D [00:07:30]:
Well, he buys.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:32]:
I love it. What’s one thing that your dad does that helps you to feel that you can be confident in who you are and who you want to be?

Speaker D [00:07:42]:
Maybe, like, whenever he tells me, like, stuff before, like a quiz or something, like, I had a math EOG today.

Charlie Davis [00:07:48]:
They may not know what EOGs are. That’s end of grade testing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:51]:
Okay.

Charlie Davis [00:07:51]:
But usually before any tests or anything like that, she does go over a lot of stuff with her mom as well, to review things and then kind of follows up with me on subjects that I’m particularly proficient in just to make sure she’s on the right track. And I let her know that she is. And if she’s not, then we make sure that she is before the test actually starts.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:07]:
Harper, is there anything that your dad does that really shows you that you can always count on him?

Speaker D [00:08:12]:
You always get very protective when I talk about boys. I mean, I bet you I could call you and you’d be like, oh, yeah, I’m going to pick you up. Sure, yeah, yeah.

Charlie Davis [00:08:20]:
If you called me from anywhere, I would come pick you up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:22]:
Let’s flip that around to you there, Charlie. What’s one way that you think that you try to show Harper that she can always count on you?

Charlie Davis [00:08:29]:
Well, I mean, I’m not exactly one of the dads that tries to avoid too many conversations when the girls are speaking. I like to let her know that if she does want to talk to me about something, whether it is a boy or not, that if she has something she wants to know or something she’s trying to figure out, I’m still going to help answer. I mean, at least to the best of my ability.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:48]:
And what’s a tradition or a routine that both of you have created together that really allows for you to be able to create that strong bond together, something that you share?

Charlie Davis [00:08:58]:
I’d say A lot of times, because, you know, with traveling, with work every now and then, and her mom does as well. And especially whenever a mom is out of town and, you know, just dad in charge, we tend to stay up a little later than we should. We have a couple of shows every now and then that, you know, we will binge watch together and just kind of stay up and talk in between each episode. And it’s just something that we typically always do anytime that the free time is allowed. It’s just something that we always kind of look forward to whenever we have the opportunity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]:
Anything else you want to share, Harper?

Speaker D [00:09:27]:
Well, like, whenever he says good night

Charlie Davis [00:09:29]:
to me, it’s like saying good night to you.

Speaker D [00:09:31]:
Yeah.

Charlie Davis [00:09:31]:
Every night. Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah. We’re just making sure that I do have the. The good night and I love you. Every single night before she goes to bed and not skipping that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:40]:
That’s always important.

Speaker D [00:09:41]:
And for some reason you say, be careful. Like, what am I gonna do? Like, hit my head on the bed?

Charlie Davis [00:09:45]:
Yes. We do have a saying that’s been around since she was very, very little. You know, every time we leave the house, we always tell each other, hey, you know, be careful. Just kind of a thing, you know, besides, I love you too. And she did not know that that was mainly for leaving the house when she was younger. And she repeated that back to me one night before she was going to bed and said, be careful. So it was a laugh. We laughed about it.

Charlie Davis [00:10:06]:
And I want to say she was not much more than two, maybe three, and kind of an ongoing inside joke that every night it’s be careful. Love you, night, night, get some sleep. And so the be careful makes no sense to anyone else but us, but it’s just an inside joke that we’ve had before she goes to bed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]:
It’s always important to have those inside jokes, something that the two of you that are special for the two of you, something that’s meaningful, that definitely creates those bonds and allows you to be able to strengthen them and be able to always have something that’s just your own. I love it. Now, I always finish our interviews, what I like to call our dad connection. 6. And usually I ask the dads, only the dads, these questions. But, Harper, I’m going to ask you too. So you have to do your best and see what you can answer. Harper, I’ll start with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:48]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Speaker D [00:10:52]:
Humorous.

Charlie Davis [00:10:53]:
And, Charlie, I was actually going to go along the same lines as funny. Humorous. There are always Jokes. He did.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:59]:
Harper, what’s the best piece of advice your dad ever gave you?

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Well, there’s a few, but I can’t say them.

Charlie Davis [00:11:04]:
Okay, well, I know. Do as I say, not as I do. Oh, okay.

Speaker D [00:11:08]:
Don’t do what your brother does.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:11]:
And, Charlie, what’s the best piece of dad advice you ever received?

Charlie Davis [00:11:15]:
Do not get too complacent. There’s always someone out there working just as hard, if not harder than you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:21]:
And, Harper, what’s one activity that you and your dad love doing together?

Speaker D [00:11:26]:
I mean, sometimes we just, like, drive places. Like, I go with them to go places and stuff.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:30]:
And, Charlie, what would you say to that?

Charlie Davis [00:11:32]:
Typically, if I have to make a trip to the grocery store or run an errand to do anything, I just ask if she wants to go with me, just because that’s. That’s a lot of the times whenever we will actually be in the car together, just us. And if we’re not singing some goofy song together or making up our own words of that song, then that’s a lot of times when our conversations are actually sparked because there. There’s no outside interference. It’s just her and I.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:53]:
Okay, next two questions are just for you, Charlie. If you could give Harper one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Charlie Davis [00:12:01]:
Never doubt yourself and that your support system is always here for you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:06]:
And what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Charlie Davis [00:12:10]:
Always doubt yourself before you approach a situation. When it comes to having a daughter, reevaluate the way that you’re going to approach it first, especially if you’ve learned through having a son first and then completely recalculate everything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
And, Harper, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Speaker D [00:12:32]:
Well, you kind of got to be careful with what you say because, well, the daughters always eavesdrop. So you got to be like, you got to think it over all the time.

Charlie Davis [00:12:40]:
They’re always listening, always listening.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:43]:
What about you, Charlie?

Charlie Davis [00:12:44]:
Don’t be so serious all the time. Make sure that you know, that you’re approachable, that, you know, smile. I mean, laugh with your daughter. Make jokes about things. Don’t be so rigid that you can’t have a conversation, that you can’t enjoy each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:57]:
Well, Charlie Harper, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your story. And I know it’s not over. There’s definitely going to be more things coming as life goes on. But I really appreciate you taking some time today to share your relationship with us and for taking some time to be able to reflect back and to help other dads. And I wish you both the best.

Charlie Davis [00:13:18]:
Well, it was an honor being on here. I really appreciate you having us and I hope you have a great one and hope that we can speak again soon.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:25]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confidence, confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:13:56]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling Astronauts and firemen Carpenters and musclemen and get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Building Stronger Father-Daughter Bonds: Insights from John Francis

May 11, 2026 by dadofdivas

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This week on the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with John Francis, founder of Fathers Eve and proud dad of two daughters, for a heartfelt conversation on what it truly takes to connect with our daughters and nurture their growth into confident, independent women. Whether you’re a first-time dad or a seasoned parent looking for fresh inspiration, this episode is packed with wisdom, real-life stories, and actionable advice that will resonate long after you listen.

One of the central themes of this episode is vulnerability. John Francis recounts a powerful moment when he allowed his daughters to see him grieve and express emotion about the loss of his own father—a memory that not only brought the family closer but gave his daughters permission to be honest about their feelings as well. As Dr. Christopher Lewis highlights, modeling vulnerability to our daughters breaks down barriers, opens up deeper connections, and provides a living example that it’s okay to be real and open as men.

The show also explores the importance of intentional parenting. John Francis emphasizes being truly present, stepping away from the “helicopter” parenting style, and letting kids learn through natural consequences. By designing his work and life to allow for more time with his children, he’s witnessed the value of being available and engaged throughout their childhood—something he encourages all dads to strive for.

Perhaps most touching are the actionable ideas shared: from creating regular one-on-one time with each daughter, to writing handwritten letters at major milestones, John Francis offers practical ways to strengthen bonds during both the joyful and challenging times. He’s candid about his own parenting mistakes, revealing how seeking family therapy and learning patience have helped him foster a healthier, happier home environment.

Finally, don’t miss the inspiring story behind Fathers Eve—a growing movement that gives dads a special night to connect, share, and celebrate each other just before Father’s Day. John Francis invites all fathers to get involved (“It’s fun, it’s free, it’s everywhere!”) and reminds us that being a great dad is about showing up, listening, and always striving to grow.

If you’re looking for encouragement or practical tips for your own fatherhood journey, tune in to this episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection”—and start building the relationship your daughter will cherish for years to come. Listen now!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on these relationships, relationships that you want to build with your daughter. And it is a journey because each one of us is on a journey to be able to become the best dad that we want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]:
But on top of that, we have to put in the time, the effort to be able to build those solid relationships, because the relationship between a father and a daughter is a really important one, and you and I both know that. But we have to be present, we have to be in it to win it, and we have to be willing to learn and to grow to be able to become the dads that we want to be. And that’s why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences to be able to have them share some of their own journey in being a dad to a daughter. And today we got another great guest. John Francis is with us, and John is the founder of Father’s Eve, or we’re going to be talking about Father’s Eve, because Father’s Eve is coming up here in not too long. And. But even more important, he is a father of two daughters, so we’re going to be talking about his own relationship and experiences with his daughters, as well as what he’s done with Father’s Eve, and I’m really excited to have him here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]:
Thanks so much for being here, John.

John Francis [00:02:06]:
Thank you. I appreciate it, Christopher. I’m glad to be here and be on your podcast. I love it. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]:
Well, I’m really excited to be able to have you here today, and I appreciate you being here. To be honest, John has been on podcasts with me for many years. We. I’ve had him on a couple of other podcasts along the way, so I always love being able to reconnect with John. And this time we’re going to be talking about a few different things in regards to your relationship with your daughters. I guess the first. First question that I love to start these conversations with is, as you think about the relationship that you’ve had with your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with each of your daughters and what made it so special?

John Francis [00:02:47]:
Wow, that’s a really good question. Hard to think about just one or the most. I’ll think about something. I guess what’s coming to my mind is they’ve seen me be vulnerable in a personal way, and I just remember the look on their face. I was having a memory about my dad. I lost my dad when I was 26, and I lost my brother just a few years later when I was 29, before I ever got married and well, before I ever had kids. And we were at home one day and I don’t know what we were talking about. It might have been my dad’s birthday or a holiday or something.

John Francis [00:03:19]:
And I was telling stories about my dad and how much I missed him and the sadness and the grief. And I can feel it now just thinking about it. I teared up and I was. Let it out, you know, just let it. I didn’t stifle it. I just said, you know, I gotta let this out. And. And it was fine.

John Francis [00:03:35]:
It was natural and appropriate. And I think I’ve learned how to. That’s living experience, let that happen. And. And they weren’t little, but they were young. But they were old enough to see that, gee, that dad doesn’t do that very often. And we talked about it kind of in the moment and then a little bit after, and I felt good about it because I think they realized that, oh, wow, it’s okay, look, here’s our dad. And we have typical kind of household environment here.

John Francis [00:04:00]:
But anyway, it was a moment where they saw me as regular, real human who has emotion and can express them. And it’s not always just, rah, rah, let’s go crazy. Was here’s dad really dealing with grief over his father? And anyway, it was a meaningful moment. And I remember in the moment thinking, I’m gonna just do this and let it happen and talk about it because I want them to see it. So it was intentional, but I was intentionally natural. I don’t know if that makes any sense. I didn’t stifle it. I think a lot of guys, or a lot of maybe in the past I would have Said, well, you know what, we’re going to talk about something else or move on or I wouldn’t hold it.

John Francis [00:04:35]:
But I. Anyway, I feel like that was a meaningful moment and I. We all kind of grew together and an understanding that it’s okay to be real and be emotional and express that, especially when you’re together with your family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:47]:
It is really important because so many times men have a tendency to compartmentalize and we don’t always share things. And I’ve said over and over again on this podcast the importance of being vulnerable and showing our daughters that men can be vulnerable and pushing ourselves out of our comfort zones in that way. Because ultimately, as you found as well, you’re going to find that that vulnerability opens you up and your daughters up to more connection and that becomes even more important in the end.

John Francis [00:05:20]:
Yeah, I agree 100%. I can think of a few other moments that we’ve had that were meaningful, but maybe not in the same sense. But I’m a lucky guy that I’ve been able to. I designed my lifestyle, frankly, to be able to work from home when my kids were little and when they were old enough to start paying attention, I was really able to be full present as a dad, engaged at their schools and involved in their lives. Not helicopter snowplow parents, but fully available and to the point where it was like, well, that’s just normal. Doesn’t everyone have mom and dad who kind of do this? And then when they were old enough to realize that, boy, that’s not common. Not every mom and dad have this kind of availability, I’ll call it. So it was intentional for me and I’m just so grateful because we’ve got that kind of connection and relationship and I think it was good for all of us.

John Francis [00:06:09]:
And I’m just grateful to be able to make the choice and. And conscious enough to make the choice, you know, because a lot of guys just aren’t, aren’t, aren’t thinking about it that way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:22]:
You know, now every one of us as fathers want to be able to do what we can to be able to help our daughters to become who they’re becoming. How did you balance guiding your daughters while still giving them the independence to grow into the people that they inevitably becoming?

John Francis [00:06:43]:
Well, that’s another great question. I don’t know that a lot of it was really conscious, but I think that what’s coming through my mind is there were moments where I let them learn a lesson where I didn’t just solve the problem or I didn’t make Them see the problem. I let them just experience what I’ll call natural consequences to different situations, good and bad, not to shield them or protect them from reality. And I think, honestly, my girls have learned to handle themselves and handle situations. They’ve got tremendous confidence and. And they are interesting. You know, they know who they are and what they want, and they’re not afraid. And I think a lot of that confidence came from letting them just be who they are and solve their, whatever problems in life.

John Francis [00:07:26]:
I mean, not that I wasn’t. I was there, but it was more or less an approach of just letting them experience life on their own terms. And they’re very different. Of course. Every child is different. Even though they’re siblings and they grew up in the same era, in the same house and, you know, at the same time, but they’re both very different and different situations with each daughter. I can think of a few moments where it’s like they get it, you know, you can see kind of the connection made or the light bulb goes off. And then I might talk about it the next day or a couple days later and say, you know, what happened there? Here’s what I saw.

John Francis [00:07:57]:
And then let them recognize there was a lesson and they pick that up. One more opportunity to learn. We’re all learning, and I’m still learning, that’s for sure. But I think it was having the ability to just stay calm. That’s something I learned too. For me as a dad, early on, patience was not a strength, it was a weakness. And someone pointed it out, a friend of mine and my wife, frankly. And I’m like, oh, man, you’re right.

John Francis [00:08:20]:
I didn’t see it. But once I had the feedback, I recognized, wow, I need to develop more patience. This is nuts. Why would I react the way I, you know, and so that became a practice and I got much better at it. And. And I think that made a huge impact in the environment and just the stress level, because I didn’t want to be that. That angry or overreactive or snap temper kind of thing. That’s not who I am.

John Francis [00:08:42]:
It’s not who I want to be. And that’s not the dad I want. Because I believe daughters, they grow up, and if you’re dad, I mean, you become the example that they look for in their lives. And so I wanted to be the best version of myself to whatever degree I’m capable of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:58]:
I think that what you’re saying is we have to be intentional about the things that we do, and we need to be able to Think about that as we’re working with our daughters and, and some of it is intentional and it’s conscious and some of it’s intentional but unconscious as well. And I guess as you think about intentional things that you’ve done, what are some intentional ways you’ve worked? Strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during those challenging times as they were growing up. And you know, because it’s not always easy.

John Francis [00:09:26]:
No, nothing’s easy, man. I know that something someone suggested to me two things that come to my mind. One is create some one on one time with each child separately. And so I would take them maybe on an overnight, on a short trip somewhere, or even to our family shares a lake home, which is fabulous. We go and do things just together, just the two of us, either one or the other, but not all of us at the same time. And that one on one time was very valuable. And getting them away from home, away from the family, away from their friends and just where they kind of have to have a conversation because you’re together in the car. We didn’t go anywhere.

John Francis [00:10:03]:
I mean it wasn’t like a real big deal. But creating those one on one opportunities at different moments. And I’ve seen guys that do like an annual father daughter trip, which I think could be a really cool idea. I never got that far, but I think that’s kind of a neat routine to build if you can. But for me it was having those one on one intentional, short, I would say departure from home. We weren’t like an ordinary environment where you have all the usual distractions and I work from home. So that was primarily for me because if I’m home, that’s where I’m going to be. That’s one thing.

John Francis [00:10:35]:
The other thing someone recommended or I read somewhere, you know, I try to read and learn everywhere I go. And one of the other recommendations was write your daughter a letter at certain milestones in life and handwrite it, you know, not typed, but you might organize your thoughts and talk about what do you feel, how do you see them, what are you proud of, what do you hope for them, what are your dreams or whatever. I know it’s not a novel, it’s a few pages, but I’ve written them. My girls are older now, so the first milestone I figured that out was when they graduated high school because that’s clearly a big milestone. So I wrote each daughter a letter just from me to them saying, you know, as you’re graduating high school, I want to just share with you my thoughts about you and all the things you want to share. And so I put some thought into what to say and all the way back from the moment you were born, and some of the highlights or low lights or some of the lessons learned, and it’s not a recap of their whole life or anything, but it’s more about how I feel about them. And the idea is that there’s something you can give to them that they can hold on to. And everybody knows in the, you know, years from now, when you’re long gone, they might have that letter to go back and reflect and say, well, you know, I remember my dad this way because he was able to share with me these thoughts or these perspectives.

John Francis [00:11:46]:
So I’ve done that, and I intend to keep doing that at those milestone moments. And I just think I wish my dad wrote letters to all of us. I’m one of five kids, so he wrote letters to us before he died, but sadly, he knew he was dying. I mean, he had cancer for a long time. It was slow. So as he was fighting and fighting and fighting. And then finally, at the end, about the last three or four months, he started writing. And my mom, they were together, and she’s like, what are you writing? And he says, I’m writing letters.

John Francis [00:12:14]:
You’ll read them later. So he wrote a letter to the whole family, and then he wrote a letter to each of us. And that’s quite a gift, so I’m grateful for that. And then, like I said, reading, the suggestion was, hey, hey, dad. You know, your daughter, she’s only this age for a little while, and in the long life that she’s got, how do you want her to remember you? You can create some of these milestones that could be real meaningful. So, anyway, that’s something I’ve learned and I’ve tried to do, and it’s certainly simple and costs almost nothing, but it takes some time and effort, and that’s probably the hardest part, but it’s so worth it. And then they read it, and then we talk about it if they want, but they’ve got it. And so I feel like that’s.

John Francis [00:12:53]:
I can’t give them everything, but I can give them that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]:
Now, none of us as dads are perfect. We’re fallible. You know, we are humans, and we do make mistakes. And for you, as you’re thinking about your daughters and helping to raise your daughters, what’s a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it? About fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

John Francis [00:13:16]:
Which one? Yes. I gotta Think of one that’s maybe relevant. I’m thinking about each girl. They’re so different. So with my older daughter, probably a mistake that I made early on when she was probably early teens, preteen maybe, and things were going crazy. Her relationship with her mother, my lovely wife, they had some challenges, and they didn’t see things the same way in a lot of ways. And my attitude was, I’m going to defend my wife first. So that’s what I thought was the right thing to do.

John Francis [00:13:47]:
And so that’s what I did. And it created a bit of a gap, I would say, with my daughter, because she recognized that, oh, okay, you’re siding with mom every time. And so she responded her own way. And that, you know, I mean, that’s the dynamic. Later, years later, our family. I insisted that we go together as a family to family counseling, family therapist. I said, we’re happy, we’re not miserable, but I know we can be more happy. And when I was a kid, my family went through some family therapy.

John Francis [00:14:15]:
One of my sisters, I have three sisters. One of my sisters went through chemical dependency, rehab treatment and pushed. Our whole family went through therapy because of that, and which was fantastic. It was sad for a lot of reasons, but it was really helpful for a lot of reasons because that therapy cleared up a lot of things that we were all unconscious to. So I had an appreciation for a good therapist. Years later, we went through some family therapy. Again, nothing really dramatic, but useful stuff. And some of this came out, and I started seeing how that really wasn’t maybe the best option all the time.

John Francis [00:14:46]:
And so I learned a lesson from that. And we talked about it, and we talked through it and. And kind of resolved it. And it’s like, well, okay, I can see why you did what you did, and I can see what you’ve learned. And it was me, her learning as much as I was learning, and same as my wife was learning. We’re all in this room together, and so it’s fascinating, I think, to just experience that. And we never had a bad relationship, but the relationship became much more clear and better after that because we all understood things just more clearly. And I think that’s where a good therapist is really valuable.

John Francis [00:15:21]:
And I’m glad we did that. And I expect we’ll do it again if we feel the need. Right? Because why wouldn’t you, if you can live a happier, better, calm, more healthy environment and relationships that we all want that. So that’s one thing I learned. I’m thinking about my other daughter with her, there are several. I can think of plenty of times where she was really mad at me, things I said or did that were not helpful. I think probably there I learned patience and understanding where her behavior was frustrating to me, and I might say something that was trying to provoke a response that really wasn’t useful, wasn’t healthy, and really just made her more mad. And then probably in that same therapy, kind of talk about those things and realize that, okay, that’s not smart.

John Francis [00:16:03]:
That’s not what I was trying to do, and that’s not what I want to do going forward. So learning more patience and then being a little more tolerant, I guess, of letting her do what she needs to do, even if it’s not what I think she should do or what I want her to do. But it’s not risky or dangerous. So just support her and let her do her thing. So I think I’ve learned that. Again, my girls, they’re not. Well, they’re both adults, so they’re not young ladies, but they got plenty of life ahead of them. And God willing, so do I.

John Francis [00:16:31]:
I’m sure we’ll have more lessons along the way is what I’m trying to say.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:34]:
It definitely happens throughout I their life and our life. We’re going to have to kind of ebb and flow in that regard. Now, I mentioned that you are the founder of Father’s Eve, and Father’s Eve is coming up. And I guess, first and foremost, why don’t you tell me a little bit about Father’s Eve and why you chose to start this event for dads in conjunction with Father’s Day.

John Francis [00:16:57]:
Well, thank you. Father’s Eve, of course, is the day really, the night before Father’s Day, we’ve got Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve. And so I invented Father’s Eve Eve because I love Father’s Day. I love being a dad. It’s the most important thing I’ll ever do is raise some children. And so Father’s Day is for the dads and families to celebrate, but Father’s Eve is just for the dads. So we call it like a national Dad’s Night Out. And this year it’ll be June 20, 2026.

John Francis [00:17:25]:
Of course, it’s Saturday because Father’s Day Sunday. And honestly, it started as an accident of the calendar. When the Great Recession came through in 2009 and 10, we had an opportunity to move to a different house. So we did. And the house was nice, but the garage was terrible. So I had a new garage built at that House. And I wanted to show off my garage, basically to invite my buddies over and say, check out this garage, because it was pretty nice. And it turned out the only night available was that Saturday.

John Francis [00:17:56]:
And I didn’t have really a lot of free time. It must have been a busy summer. And so I said, well, we’ll just have a little get together in the garage and I’m going to call it Father’s Eve. Because that’s just kind of funny, right? It was sort of a joke. Well, a bunch of guys showed up and it turned out we had a great time, right? No children, no women, really nothing to it. Music was just a little too loud. It was perfect. I mean, it was just guys hanging out in a garage, kind of an inauguration or a christening of a new garage.

John Francis [00:18:24]:
And we had so much fun. We said, well, we got to do this again. And so we did it again and it had to be Father’s Eve now. We said, well, that’s. This worked out great, so let’s do it again. So we did it the second year, but doubled, right? More guys showed up and more friends of mine. And just different people were coming together back in the same garage. And this time we added food and some games and we were a little more prepared and organized.

John Francis [00:18:46]:
Well, the third year we did Father’s Eve, there were guys coming that I didn’t know, which I thought was great. This means my buddies are bringing their buddies, more friends are bringing more friends because they’re having so much fun. And it was still just all guys, very low key, no program, no speech, no nothing. Just show up and hang out and let’s get together. And celebrating fatherhood is kind of the tagline. So someone challenged me to say, what are you going to do with this Father’s Eve? Why don’t you do some good? So the third year, I guess the fourth year, we outgrew the garage. We moved it to a bar and we made it a fundraiser for two charities. We split the money as a fundraiser and we raised $10,000 and got some publicity, got some media, had some friends, some.

John Francis [00:19:26]:
Some of my good, smart friends who were able to help me with the food and events. And we ran an auction. We got some media attention. We put in a cornhole tournament to have some fun with it. And it turned into something a little more I ever expected. And so the next year, that was 2015, was sort of the first official organized. We had a logo, we sold T shirts. We were having some fun with it.

John Francis [00:19:49]:
The next year, I went to the DAD 2.0 conference, which was sort of a media influencer thing, which I had no clue what I was doing, but I thought, well, see what we can do. And I met the guys from City Dad’s group and I met the guys from the national At Home Dad Network network. And I’m like, where have you guys been my whole life I’ve been out here doing my thing all alone, on my own, figuring it out. And now I realize there’s groups all around the country. Well, I had no idea. So started the City Dads chapter here in Minnesota, the Twin Cities Dads group, as an affiliate or whatever their thing was. And great guys, great, lot of fun. And so it kind of took off from there.

John Francis [00:20:26]:
We license it, I trademarked it and we license it for free. So Father’s Eve is fun, it’s free and it’s, we say it’s everywhere. So we kept doing it. Cities and volunteers pop up all over the country and host Father’s Eve events at their, in their backyard and their, their local bar or restaurant or a church or school or a club or. We’ve done it all over the place and had quite a bit of fun with it. Some guys do fundraisers, guys have done golf tournaments. One guy did a poker tournament that seemed like a lot of fun. Some do fundraisers for local charities.

John Francis [00:20:57]:
We’re not a charity, so we don’t want the money. We want. If you’re going to do it, raise the money and give it to someone else, someone who can do some good. Local nonprofit profit is usually what we recommend. Or for the At Home Dad Network is a good group. We collaborated with, really anybody, anyone who we thought was in alignment of let’s help dads be better dads. I mean that’s really the common denominator. Trying to help each other figure this out.

John Francis [00:21:20]:
So Father’s Eve now, this year we’ll probably have it in 30 or 40 cities around the country. We do a virtual toast. We learned something from COVID when, when that came around and, and it pushed us online. So we do an online zoom. And the fun part, Chris, you know this Father’s Eve, we do a countdown toast at 8 o’ clock. So people know on New Year’s Eve you gotta wait till midnight to do the countdown. 10, 9, 8. The whole thing at midnight on Father’s Eve, we back that up to 8 o’.

John Francis [00:21:49]:
Clock. Because I want to go home by 9:30. Man, I don’t want to see midnight. It’s Father’s Day the next day. I want to be well rested. So we do a 8 o’ clock countdown toast in East Coast, Central time, Mountain time and Pacific time, the four continental US Time zones. We go online and we get guys zooming in from all over the country, up and down the different time zones. It’s really kind of fun.

John Francis [00:22:12]:
And they, they click, they connect. So it’s like, you might be like, where I am in Minnesota, we’re Central time. So we’ll see guys from Minnesota, Chicago, Dallas, Kansas City, you know, up and down our time zone. But we of course start early for the east coast guys. We want to see them and all way from New York to Carolinas and Florida and whatever. Anyway, we do it four times online, so guys can join us anywhere and zoom in. And there’s no fee, there’s no credit card number, there’s nothing. You just show up and if you want to say something, say something.

John Francis [00:22:42]:
If you don’t, you don’t. Nobody really minds it. The expectations are pretty low. It’s. It’s just show up and maybe you’ll learn something, maybe you share something. You have some games and activities and anyway, it’s loosely organized. I’ll say a bunch of volunteers having a good time. My strategy, there’s not a lot to it, but the goal is to have dads connect.

John Francis [00:23:01]:
And we say we connect, share and celebrate fatherhood. And I tell you what I’ve learned over the years is if I can help somebody, just be a little more intentional or a little more conscious of how important fatherhood is and being that dad, you know, being the father is biological. Being the dad is much more. So we focus on trying to do whatever we can to help each other be a better husband, be a better father, be a better partner. And we welcome every dad, all the dads, really anyone. We’re very inclusive and there’s really no agenda. We’re not selling anything, we’re not promoting anything. We’re not saving anyone.

John Francis [00:23:36]:
We’re not solving any problems. We’re just there to get together and try to help each other and support each other. And what I’m learning now is really what I would say, alleviating isolation. I think a lot of guys, especially older guys, forget how to make friends and they don’t get out in circulation. I’m a lucky guy. I’ve got friends. We go snowmobiling and fishing and work. And I get around the country and do my thing, but a lot of guys don’t.

John Francis [00:24:01]:
And so this is a real easy open door. Come on out and celebrate Father’s Eve. Whether it’s in real life at a local event nearby, or whether you join us online and maybe you make connections somewhere or learn something about one of these groups or organizations that I didn’t know about, but I sure wish I did when my kids were little. And there’s always something new and interesting. And so it’s just kind of that sort of a connection point, I guess, is really the goal. I’m trying to be that the, the common denominator for all the dads. You know, we can all celebrate Father’s Eve and really have no agenda. But anyway, thanks for letting me bring it up.

John Francis [00:24:36]:
Obviously I can talk about this for hours, but we’re glad to do it and it’s been a lot of fun and we’re still learning, we’re still growing, but it is, it’s been meaningful and I think it’s a lot more room to improve always.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:47]:
Now, if people are interested, they’re hearing this, they’re saying to themselves, hey, I’d like to have a get together in my area for, for dads like this.

John Francis [00:24:56]:
This.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:56]:
Talk to me about what they would need to do to be able to do that, to get signed up and to be able to be a part of the fun.

John Francis [00:25:02]:
Well, Father’s Eve is the website. There’s no apostrophe, right? Because it’s not possessive, it’s. It’s plural, right? It’s for everybody. So some grammar teacher told me that. Where’s the apostrophe? I’m like, well, I didn’t trademark it with an apostrophe. So it’s Father’s Eve.com and we’re on all the whatever socials. I don’t know how to do tick tock, so I don’t think we’re there. But anyway, not hard to find.

John Francis [00:25:24]:
And there’s five rules for Father’s Eve. This is super easy. Number one, keep it clean. This is not a bachelor party. This is not a frat party. This is not let’s go crazy, right? It’s have a good time. I would say it’s PG13, whatever, but keep it clean. That’s rule number one.

John Francis [00:25:39]:
Number two, it’s for the dads, and that means all the dad. It’s not really a family event, although you can do it that way if you want. We’re not rigid, really, but it’s inclusive. So dads, divorced dads, single dads, granddads, gay dads, kids, trans dads. We’ll welcome anybody, whoever. If you want to celebrate fathers, we want you to be with us. So number two is all the dads. Number three is you got to have something to do, some kind of an activity or engagement.

John Francis [00:26:06]:
A lot of guys just have a barbecue and sit around a table and just talk. That’s fine. We do a bags tournament with the cornhole because I can hold a beer in one hand and throw the bags with the other hand. So that’s pretty fun. Something to do. And so you gotta Anything, anything, Something interesting to do. That’s number three. Number four is work together.

John Francis [00:26:25]:
We do a Facebook page for the hosts. We call them event hosts. There is a private page. I want to talk to you and share with you what I’ve learned and what. We have some tools and some simple stuff for guys who want to organize a little more and promote themselves a little bit, but work together. We want to know what you’re doing, and we want to help you do it better and have better results. And then rule number five is don’t screw it up. Don’t be that guy that does something stupid and wrecks it for all of us.

John Francis [00:26:50]:
So none of this involves any. Any fee. It’s really all just common sense. And we’re trying to build a movement, we’re trying to build a group. We’ve got social media, we’ve got an email, we send a newsletter. It’s not complicated. The goal is to get this thing big enough that maybe someday we’ll get a sponsor. Someone wants to be the official fill in the blank of Father’s Eve.

John Francis [00:27:11]:
I could think of a lot of things. I’d like to be affiliated with a lot of organizations. And if we get big enough where it’s attractive and we have enough. Enough activity or engagement, then there’s some economic value that I think if we made any real money, we. All we would do is promote ourselves even more and have bigger events and even more fun and try to reach more people, which is really the goal. If we can reach more of the dads out there, and there’s new dads, there’s old dads, there’s about to be dads, There’s. We can learn from each other and share ideas. And that’s really the goal.

John Francis [00:27:43]:
So Father’s Eve is fun. It’s free. It’s everywhere. There. Hit the website, click the link. There’s an agreement there. There’s a trademark, a license agreement, but it’s free. There’s no fees, no nothing there.

John Francis [00:27:54]:
We. I guess we do sell a T shirt. If you want a T shirt or coffee mug, you can buy that. But we’re not big on the merch, but someone said, why wouldn’t you sell a coffee cup or whatever? So. But it’s pretty simple, Chris. Part of the fun is I get to talk to these guys. I want to know who you are and what you’re up to and what your plans are, and then I want to help you and see if I can make your event even more fun and more successful so I get to know these people. And over the years, I’ve made some great guys that are doing Father’s Eve, and some guys have been doing it year after year after year.

John Francis [00:28:22]:
I think Chicago, I think they’re on, like, I want to say, 10 plus years. I think they’ve been doing it. Some of the other cities around the country, it’s same guys, same groups, and they have quite large events. It’s fascinating to see what they’re doing. And that’s really what it’s all about, is just keep it simple and have some fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]:
Well, we always finish our interviews what I like to call our dad connections. Six. Six more questions. The devil. A little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready?

John Francis [00:28:47]:
I’ll try. I’ll do my best.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

John Francis [00:28:53]:
Loving.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:53]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

John Francis [00:28:57]:
Parent the child you have, not the child you wish you had.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:02]:
What’s one activity that you and each of your daughters love doing together?

John Francis [00:29:06]:
We love being on the water, on the lake, at the cabin.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:09]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

John Francis [00:29:15]:
Be very careful of who you choose as a life partner because it’s 80% of your happiness or misery in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:24]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

John Francis [00:29:28]:
Life is so much more interesting as a parent. It’s a whole new dimension of possibilities and growth and meaningful life. I love it. I can’t imagine not being a dad. Dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:40]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

John Francis [00:29:48]:
Learn how to be patient and really learn how to listen. Those things are easy to say, but they’re really hard to do consistently. But I’ve tried and I’ve gotten better, and there’s always room for more. But patience and what do they say? Active listening, really being present. There’s no other way. I think that’s the starter for any kind of meaningful relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]:
Well, John, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being on the show today. Thank you for sharing about your own journey with your daughters as well as all the amazing things that you’re doing with Father’s Eve. I wish you all the best as you get ready for the next Father’s Eve. And as always, I really appreciate your time and everything that you’ve shared today. I wish you the best.

John Francis [00:30:30]:
Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to be build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect, it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:31:04]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Small Moments, Big Impact: Strengthening Your Bond With Your Daughter

April 20, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

In a world where the father-daughter relationship is often celebrated but not always explored in depth, “The Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast stands out as a guiding light for dads eager to nurture lifelong bonds with their daughters. In the latest heartwarming episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Bernard Drew, a proud father, to discuss the unique joys and evolving challenges of raising independent, confident young women.

Celebrating Small Moments That Matter

One of the central themes of this episode is the importance of everyday intentionality. Bernard Drew recalls a cherished memory—taking his young daughter to a midnight premiere of her favorite movie, Hannah Montana. It wasn’t a grand gesture but a simple act of presence and togetherness that, years later, still stands out for both father and daughter. Through stories like this, Bernard Drew emphasizes how small, thoughtful rituals, like watching movies or sharing inside jokes, lay the foundation for meaningful connections.

Balancing Guidance with Independence

A challenge many fathers face is balancing the instinct to protect with the need to allow daughters the freedom to grow. Bernard Drew shares openly about this ongoing journey. From having those tough conversations (“the sex talks, the hard things with society”) to trusting the “seeds previously planted,” he reflects on moments when he had to learn to step back and let his daughter own her choices. This powerful message reminds dads everywhere that guidance is important, but space and trust are essential for daughters to flourish as independent thinkers.

The Value of Authenticity and Listening

Another profound takeaway is the transformation that comes when fathers truly listen. Bernard Drew candidly admits that, growing up, he’d been raised in a “kids are seen and not heard” environment, but realized the importance of letting his daughter have a voice—especially through teenage transitions and life changes. Authentic, open dialogue not only makes daughters feel valued but also strengthens their self-worth.

Encouragement for Dads Everywhere

Throughout their conversation, both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Bernard Drew stress that being present, engaged, and authentic is more valuable than striving for perfection as a parent. The episode encourages listeners to invest in quality time, foster open communication, and continually learn—not just about their daughters, but about themselves as fathers.

Whether you’re seeking practical advice or inspiration, this episode offers a candid, uplifting look at what it means to be “the dad she needs.” Tune in to strengthen your own connection and join a community devoted to raising confident, empowered daughters.

Ready to dive in? Listen to the full conversation and start making your moments count!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week, you. You and I have an opportunity, an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]:
You know, I’ve got two daughters, and every week, I love being able to have you here with me as we’re talking about these relationships and we’re talking about what we can do to be able to build those stronger relationships, because each of us have a responsibility to be able to be there for our kids, not just our daughters, but our kids. But the relationship that you have with your daughter is a truly unique one and a very special one, and one that you do have to invest in and you have to work on. And that’s why this podcast exists. It exists so that every week you have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, and to try to work on something. Might be small, it might be large that you can do to be able to either work on, repair, or continue to build that relationship with your daughter. That’s why every week, I love bringing you different guests with different experiences that can help you do just that. And today, we’ve got another great guest, Bernard Drew is with us, and Bernard is a father of two, but today we’re going to be talking about his relationship and his experiences with his own daughter. So I’m really excited to have him here.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]:
Bernard, thanks so much for being here today.

Bernard Drew [00:02:08]:
Dr. Chris, it’s a pleasure to be here, and as you know, I’ve been so enamored. You do so many things from an extraordinary perspective academically, but I am most intrigued that you have this great passion, this relentless desire to support dads and their journeys with daughters. So it’s actually an honor to be here and part of this community that you’ve been able to nurture.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:29]:
I appreciate you saying that, because it is a passion. It’s been something that I’ve been working on for many, many years. And I love being able to talk to dads like you that have been right in it. And even today, I know today is your daughter’s birthday, so happy birthday to your daughter. And while this will come out after your daughter’s birthday, you we were just talking about the fact that before you came to be on the show today that you were over giving her a birthday present and dropping that off before we were talking. And it’s those special moments, those little moments that so much. And I know your daughter is an adult now, and I. And I guess first and foremost, as we talk about that relationship with your daughter, talk to me about for you what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughter and what made it so special as

Bernard Drew [00:03:16]:
it’s her birthday today. And I’ll be grateful. We have a lot of great memories, one that always stands out. I think she had to been maybe 6 years old. And we’re going back. She turned 24 today. So we’re talking about, wow, that’s crazy. Almost 18 years ago, maybe she was 6 or 7.

Bernard Drew [00:03:32]:
She had maybe about 7. And she was just absolutely enamored with Hannah Montana on the television on Disney Channel. And man, that was her show. And I would sit and spend time and just watch it with her and just hanging out. And long story short, they ended up having a movie came out and I ended up buying tickets so that she could go at midnight when it first opened that night to go see it. And we have a picture. And to this day, that is one of the most precious memories for her. Like my dad took me to see Hannah Montana at midnight.

Bernard Drew [00:04:04]:
To her, the thought of going to a movie at midnight was absur. Who does that? But then to be able to take her little Hannah Montana guitar and sit in the show and it’s just a lot of those little moments compound them over time. And I’m so grateful. Almost regardless of any other accomplishments or accolades in life, man, I have enjoyed my journey with my daughter.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:23]:
All of us, as we go through this journey with our daughters and with our kids, we have to balance the expectations that we have. We have to balance the drive that we have to be able to guide them, to help them. Men in general, 10 to be helpers. They tend to be solvers. And sometimes that can be to the detriment of being a father to a daughter. So I guess the question that I have is either now that your daughter is an adult, or as she’s grown up into the adult that she is today. How did you balance or how do you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to be the person that she was becoming as she was getting older or that she continues to become as she gets older?

Bernard Drew [00:05:08]:
Well, you went straight to one of the most profound, reflective questions we could go into here. And I’ll say it’s definitely an evolving spectrum, even today, and how to be the dad that she needs for this stage and season in life, and even how my role has evolved in years past. And sometimes I got it great. Sometimes it was like, oh, I missed the exit ramp when I was supposed to be a little less overbearing and give her a little more room to explore and discover. But I think it’s somewhere in between that line of being a dad who wants to protect and prevent harm as well as the dad who wants to, hey, I need you to be prepared for this. So in our household, I was the one to have the hard conversations. I had the sex talks. I had the conversations about hard things with society and everything else.

Bernard Drew [00:05:53]:
That was a dad daughter thing. My wife was like, I’m so glad you’re handling that. And I was glad to. I want my daughter to be prepared. But I think it was her sophomore year in high school, and she was volunteering, I do believe, to support the National Honor Society induction. And it dawned on me that she’s going to be participating in this next year, two years from now. It finally hit me in the late spring of her sophomore year. I’ve got two more years with her, and she could be gone forever when she graduates high school.

Bernard Drew [00:06:19]:
I have no more, for lack of better words, control where she goes to college. I want her to have a confident choice where she goes. She could go to the other side of the country, and she could then plant roots somewhere else, and this might be it. And I started being almost, not quite overwhelmed, but my mind being inundated with, oh, my God, I got two years to prepare her for what life has in store. Store. And I started to come up with this master list of things that I’m like, oh, she’s got to know this and do that, do this and do that, and I got to prepare for this. And I’ll just say, I think I was being prayerful and just in conversation with God. The Holy Spirit was like, whoa, son, slow down.

Bernard Drew [00:06:53]:
You’re doing too much. Do you trust the seeds that have already been planted? Do you trust the demonstrated leadership, love, kindness, and principles you’ve already expressed to her? If you trust that the seeds that were planted were helpful, they were healthy, they were appropriate, they were going in the right direction, then now is not the time to get hasty and start stirring, covering things up unjustly. Trust the seeds that have been planted. And at this stage, you have to make sure you’re trusting me to be inside of her, to give her the guidance, the insight, the resilience she’s going to need. And if nothing else, who is the village that’s around her that you can be intentional to cultivate and nurture that at a stage where it’s probably easy for her to be like, oh, there’s my dad talking again. There’s my dad with another lecture. Who are the other people that are in our social circles that she can be entrusted to spend time with? And they may also sprinkle some principles in her life to water the seeds that have already been planted. And I’ll say that was one of the single greatest pivots and perspectives that ever happened, because then she was able to begin discovering the principles that were inside of her, that she owned and she believed for herself, because she chose to.

Bernard Drew [00:08:00]:
As opposed to feeling like, oh, there’s my dad telling me what to do again, she was able list a little bit more, able to determine like, no, this is who I am, because I chose to decide that this is who I am. And I would say that’s a perpetual journey I’m still on of keeping an eye on where that balance is.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]:
It’s never easy, and it’s definitely something you have to work on because inevitably we step over the line and then they smack us and they say, you’ve stepped over the line. And they tell us that especially as they get older. And they will definitely do that. I’ve had that happen to me numerous times now. It sounds from everything that you’re saying that you have done some very intentional things to be able to build the relationship that you have with your daughter. Talk to me about what some of those intentional ways were that you did to work to strengthen that bond with your daughter, especially, let’s say, during challenging times.

Bernard Drew [00:08:55]:
I would like to think that I have a ironclad answer, but I just have to speak towards. It’s a journey. We’re all always evolving and all always learning. I do believe early on, and I’ll just be candid, I think one of the strongest things that she saw was that her dad loved her and loves her mom, and that regardless of what, there’s no other priority that goes above them next to God. And so I think for her to see that and know that over the years. And does that mean perfection? No. But I think there’s an unequivocal understanding that dad prioritizes you. You matter.

Bernard Drew [00:09:28]:
You are important. It is a joy to spend time with you, and time with you is valuable to me. And I think that that has paid major, major dividends because it’s not a foreign thought. So whether things are going exceptionally well in her life and dad is hanging out with her, that’s a normal thing. Or if things are really tough and unclear and some strain, she knows dad is there. And so I think a lot of that stemmed from just the early years of her knowing, hey, my dad loves spending time with me, and this is important to him. And I think that has paid incredible dividends over the years.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:03]:
So none of us are infallible. None of us. All of us as fathers, have made mistakes along the way. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication or other things in relation to yourself as a father?

Bernard Drew [00:10:22]:
Great question. I can think of a number of areas, if it comes down to it. Whereup, Mr. Mark there. Mr. Mark there. I think one that stands out the most to me, kind of that same vein of that earlier revelation about, hey, stop doing too much, give her space to flourish with what’s already been planted. I would say in a similar capacity, I had the hard conversations with her all the time, and included in that with boys.

Bernard Drew [00:10:44]:
And so I don’t have excessive regret here, but enough to be like, oh, yeah, I was probably over the top. I kind of had a zero tolerance policy. I don’t want to hear a boy calling you. I don’t want to have any boys showing up at the house. I just, whatever, just stay focused on your studies, and I don’t want to hear anything about it. And as much as that was well intended and I think it’s done as well and she’s still doing well today, in hindsight, I’m like, you know what, Bernard? Your parents were fairly rigid, but they weren’t that rigid. And there’s some virtue to allowing kids while they’re under my roof. If I’d have done it all over again, I probably would have created a safer space for her to explore and navigate relationships while under our roof.

Bernard Drew [00:11:27]:
In a space where if and when, because we all make goofy decisions as we’re navigating relationships, I probably would have been in a better position to kind of observe from a closer distance. And coach and help course correct and then give insight because we’re sitting here, right here, observing it. And I’m grateful that she didn’t go off the deep end or anything too extreme, at least that I know of. But it’s something that I wish I could have coached her on that a little bit more while she was close to home. I think our. I don’t know if I’ll call it Saving grace was in her case. She left for school, had one year of undergrad, and then Covid hit and she came back home again for a year and a half. And so I kind of got a second chance in that space.

Bernard Drew [00:12:07]:
But if I were to have given myself some different advice, it would have been to give her more opportunity to make a few mistakes and learn from them while she was in the house and nurtured more of that coaching dad dynamic with her earlier versus later. Yet I’m grateful that it has worked out well.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:25]:
So today, or as she was growing up, what did or do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Bernard Drew [00:12:34]:
It’s a journey and a spectrum. I think the valued piece I enjoy spending time with her. The things that she enjoyed, I learned to enjoy. Some of her favorite shows became some of my favorite shows. The volume of inside jokes she and I have today as a result of all of those shared experiences between you and I. And I guess whoever sees this, my wife, I think, is almost jealous sometimes because we have just a volume of things that we delved into that she knows she was valued. And I spent that time with her in terms of her voice. You know, it’s interesting.

Bernard Drew [00:13:02]:
I think I kind of grew up in an era that it was like, hey, I hate to say it, kids are seen and not heard. I think I had a certain dynamic of that through much of her elementary years, middle school years, like, hey, just do what we told you to do, and that’s it. And I think as high school evolved, she had a tough pivot transitioning into her high school. And I think that was the time frame where she and I began discovering that I needed to leave more room for her voice because this is her school experience. And though we kind of made the decision where she would go, she needed to take ownership and find joy in it. And so I think that was the season where we sit at the kitchen table and we’d have long conversations and I would listen to her talk to me about the challenges she was having at the school and how she was navigating certain challenges and allowing her voice to actually be heard and not just quiet it, because I’m dad and your daughter. And I think that was a turning point for us that allowed her voice to be valued as much as I thought that I valued her.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:02]:
And how do you support your daughter now, or as she was growing up, getting into college, et cetera, in pursuing the dreams and the passions that she has?

Bernard Drew [00:14:13]:
Man, I’ll definitely say this. I think that is one of the greatest roles as a father, is affirming for her that she has value. I mean, candidly, the card I gave her today, it had two words in there, power and purpose. She knows I’m the corny dad. And yep, I will have a lecture ready any given minute and it’s going to be corny and it’s that and the other. But it is what it is. And so even today, the card I gave her for her birthday talked about purpose and power and affirming for her that inside of her you have power. There is a limitless power inside of you to be able to curate the life that you desire.

Bernard Drew [00:14:44]:
And while doing that, to make the impact that you’ve been called to do, you have purpose. And so that has been a heavy dynamic. When she was approaching her 13 birthday, I was kind of inspired. I grew up in a community that had a strong Jewish population. And so I had a lot of friends that were in Hebrew school. And by the time they got to 13, having their bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs and being able to demonstrate a level of maturity and adulthood and command of their faith. Her 13th birthday, we kept it fun and light. That’s the joy my wife brings to the table.

Bernard Drew [00:15:14]:
She keeps things real light and fun most of the time. But I did have my daughter actually read several books, books and write me reports on purpose leading up to her 13th birthday. And I had her assemble those thoughts in her own phrasing, her own lens of life at 12 going on 13 on what purpose means and how important is purpose in your life and how do you express purpose and why is purpose important to other people around you? And so she put together a, I don’t know how long it was, maybe a five to seven minute talk presentation at her 13th birthday party with family, friends and folks assembled. And as much as he have fun cake and did all kind of fun stuff and games with her friends, there was a segment where she got to express this understanding of purpose and what it means to her. And I think those are the kind of things that in their totality, that is one of the Things I think helped continue to affirm for her. I see purpose inside of you and you as you discover for yourself, a confidence in who you are. There’s no limit to what you can do in your life. And so if I fast forward, I’m inspired that she harnessed that and I think, think that type of journey she’s had is what fuels her.

Bernard Drew [00:16:23]:
Having pursued an undergraduate degree in elementary education, she wants to impact the lives of kids and she’s doing that even now.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:31]:
What’s a tradition or a routine that you and your daughter have created together that strengthen your bond?

Bernard Drew [00:16:36]:
Again, it evolves over time, but most of it, can I tell you, it involves quality time. And I don’t know if I’ve done a deep analysis of the five love languages in her life. Maybe I should. But I’ll say this, this, that quality time with her, whether it was the watching the Disney shows with her when she was at her youngest, I will say I think she had been in the first grade and we had a routine every morning and we did this for several years that before going to school she would come into my office and we would read together. I was introducing her to the Bible and so she was spending some time just getting familiar and telling me her thoughts about what she had read. And it gave us opportunity just to connect. And we did that for several years. That was first thing in the morning before going to school.

Bernard Drew [00:17:17]:
And so I think those kind of moments, moments definitely over time set the tone that hey, dad wants to spend time with me. And so in terms of routine, those were routine at that time. But as she’s grown older, I’ll just say the engagement isn’t nearly as routine. But I think the routine early on set the tone that man, I value that quality time with you and you can communicate your genuine authentic thoughts. And it’s evolved into the kind of relationship where my wife is definitely one who goes to bed early because she wakes up extra early. My daughter and I tend to be more night owl and it’s not uncommon whether it was in high school while she was navigating undergrad and was living with us. It’s not uncommon for us to cross paths in the kitchen at 8:30 at night and just sit at the kitchen table and talk for two, three, four hours and just talk. And that I believe is one of the greatest gifts in life, that she enjoys hanging out with her dad.

Bernard Drew [00:18:11]:
So I’m thankful. Quality time.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:12]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection six, which are six questions that are gonna delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Bernard Drew [00:18:21]:
I don’t think I have another choice. Go for.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Bernard Drew [00:18:26]:
I would say fun.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:27]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Bernard Drew [00:18:32]:
Again, I have to go with just train them up in the direction they’re supposed to go in. Just train them early. They have their own path to take. Train them early, and then you have confidence that they’ll flourish in the assignment and into the character that they’re supposed to walk in.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:45]:
You already talked about this a little bit, but what’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together today?

Bernard Drew [00:18:51]:
Watching movies. So now that she’s got her own home, it’s kind of fun that it’s not uncommon. I’ll go over to her house, and we’ll sit up and watch a movie or two and just hang out and talk and so movies. I think we’ve done three Broadway shows together now. Also, my wife’s not the greatest fan of theater, but my daughter and I will go, and those are some of the greatest things that we enjoy doing.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:11]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Bernard Drew [00:19:16]:
Your life is always resilient. With the love of God. You can always bounce back from anything. Just keep your trust in him.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:22]:
And what’s one one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Bernard Drew [00:19:27]:
I would say there’s probably been no sacrifice that’s been made for the wellness of my kids. It wasn’t worth it.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:32]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Bernard Drew [00:19:40]:
I think authenticity, the level of authenticity that loves and meets them where they are and loves them, nurtures and encourages them from where they are. The other side of that coin is the level of authenticity to learn to love and forgive yourself. I think sometimes as men and as dads, I’m not gonna overgeneralize here, but sometimes we can be bound to the ignorance we may have had in the past and think that that has to dictate whatever pathways to the future. And the reality is, just like, there’s an endless opportunity for our kids to evolve. There’s an endless opportunity for us to evolve. And so I would extend to dads, you’re worth the time to reinvest in you. If it’s reading certain books, if it is is therapy, if it’s counseling, if it is just finding a safe space and environment where you can talk freely and get certain things off your chest. And maybe here’s some other perspectives.

Bernard Drew [00:20:30]:
You’re worth that opportunity, too. And as much as you may fight so hard to to create safe spaces for other people, give yourself the same grace to find some space for you to evolve into the best version of yourself, too.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:43]:
Well, Bernard, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing the unique journey of you and your daughter. As you said, it’s always evolving. It’s changing, but it is so exciting to hear about the strong bond that you and your daughter have. And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here and I wish you the best.

Bernard Drew [00:21:01]:
Thank you very much. And again, I just appreciate you doing this. I think one of the greatest relationships on the planet is the relationship with a dad and his daughter. And for dads to be encouraged and coached and inspired. Probably one of the single greatest investments that can be made in anybody’s lifetime. So thank you for making this commitment. Greatly appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:18]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build strong, stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:21:49]:
We’re all in the same boat

Christopher Lewis [00:21:56]:
is

Speaker D [00:21:56]:
full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenter and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can

Bernard Drew [00:22:39]:
be

Speaker D [00:22:42]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Healing Artfully: Creative Ways for Dads to Connect with Their Daughters

March 23, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad looking for meaningful ways to connect with your daughter and navigate the often tricky terrain of emotions, the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast is essential listening. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, this episode features Cheryl Rosenberg—a coach and creator of the Healing Artfully program. Together, they unpack the challenges and rewards of building lasting father-daughter relationships.

Understanding Through Story and Experience

Cheryl Rosenberg opens the conversation by reflecting on her own close relationship with her father, emphasizing how his steady love, honesty, and encouragement shaped her life. She shares that the simple act of her father being present—whether teaching her to paint or expressing pride in her achievements—made an enduring difference in her confidence and sense of being valued. Her story is a reminder that it’s the consistent, every-day practices—not grand gestures—that lay a foundation for trust and communication.

Reconnecting When Emotions Run High

One of the central themes of the episode is how fathers can best respond during the turbulent teenage years, when daughters might seem withdrawn or overwhelmed by big emotions. Cheryl Rosenberg notes that, for many dads, the instinct is to “fix” things or resort to logic and discipline. But often, what daughters need most is simply their dad’s calm presence and willingness to listen. As Dr. Christopher Lewis puts it, “connection doesn’t come from fixing, it comes from presence.”

Tools for Emotional Connection

The episode delves into creative solutions for building rapport, especially when words fall short. Cheryl Rosenberg’s Healing Artfully program encourages both daughters and parents to use artistic expression and journaling to process feelings and spark honest discussions. These activities don’t require artistic talent—just the willingness to explore and share emotions together. Dads are encouraged to participate, using art and even weekly “check-ins” to open new avenues of dialogue and trust.

Practical Takeaways for Every Dad

Listeners will come away with actionable advice: set aside regular time to check in, engage in shared activities (even a simple card game), and respond with compassion rather than quick solutions. And most of all, dads are reminded that their steady presence and acceptance are the anchors their daughters need to thrive.

Ready to build a closer relationship with your daughter? Tune in to this episode and start the conversation today.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our own daughters to make them be as strong as they can be and to help us build those strong lasting relationships that’ll help us to be amazing dads, but also having amazing relationships with our kids. And every week I love being able to have you here to be able to work on this together. And I love being able to introduce you to people that have resources that can help you to be able to do just that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:25]:
And today’s guest is someone that I know you’re going to appreciate. Cheryl Rosenberg is a coach, and she’s the creator of the Healing Artfully program, where she helps students ages 12 to 20 who are struggling with big emotions, disruptive behaviors, or stress at home or school. But you know what I love about Cheryl’s work is that she doesn’t just focus on the child. She works closely with All of Us as Overwhelmed Parents: Helping Families Rebuild Connections, Emotional Regulation, and Peaceful Communication. If you’re a dad who’s ever felt unsure how to respond to your daughter’s big feelings or wondered how to reconnect when things may feel tense, this conversation is definitely going to be for you. Cheryl, thanks so much for being here today.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:02:14]:
Thank you for having me, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:16]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here today, and As always, I love being able to start the conversation reflecting back on your own relationship with your father. I guess first and foremost, before we even get into the relationship, tell me a little bit about your dad.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:02:31]:
I would love to. My father, he was raised in a very poor environment. Grandfather was out of work, and they had very little food, which made my father very self-sufficient and very driven to be crosshu— provide for his family. And he was a wonderful man. He was honest and sincere and very loving. And he had a brother who was not quite as capable as he, and he would take him to different job sites and get him work that he could do, stuff that he was able to complete and, um, contribute. He had wonderful hand skills. He could make anything.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:03:17]:
But my father was 17 when he went into the Army in— during World War II. He was all over the European theater, and he would tell me stories about being there and what they would do, and about going into farmhouses that had been vacated, and they’d find potatoes and cook those. That’s the only thing they had to eat. And about different battles and, and how they survived and the different things that they did. He was very fair. He was hands-on, and he was just so loving. And I used to love to sit next to him on the couch on a Sunday afternoon and watch a movie with him. And if he had seen the movie, he would tell me a little bit about it.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:04:04]:
And I, I just loved to listen to him, listen to him talk. And he had his old ways and his old patterns of speech, but he was a self-made man and he did very well for himself. He was a telegrapher on the railroad, which means that he would take the messages that were sent and he could more or less tap Morse code and, and then get down to the tracks and change the— change the direction of the tracks. And that was up in the tower, his tower too, where he worked. But Couldn’t have asked for a better father. He was there for me all the time. And I didn’t have a great mother, but I did have a great father and he made up for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:51]:
So tell me one thing that your dad did that made you truly feel seen, heard, or valued as a daughter.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:04:59]:
Well, he always taught me— I always felt like he wanted me to be my best, do my best, and he would speak to me in those terms and tell me how I could do that and what I needed to do. And then he’d say, “Try it. Just be— just be diligent in your efforts.” And he would tell me about working in school and how he was so proud of that, of me and my schoolwork. And he would say, you know, “You, you’ve done a marvelous job with—” I always— cleaning the house or doing the laundry or, like I said, schoolwork or being a good sister to my sister, helping my mother and helping him. I used to love to help him paint. I took on his ability to paint and I used to hand paint furniture artistically. So he taught me that and that was ingrained in me and he just always made me feel loved and cared for. And I would go to him with anything because he was so understanding.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:05]:
Now, looking back, was there a moment where your dad’s support or guidance had a significant impact on your growth? Or confidence?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:06:14]:
I don’t remember any one specific time. I just— it was constant. There was a constant feeling of support and love, and I can’t think of a one particular incident at this moment, but he was always there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:30]:
Now, no father is perfect. We all have our flaws. What are some things you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:06:39]:
Well, this may surprise you, but my sister and I have talked about this at length. And my sister and I both wish that our father had left our mother. But he wouldn’t do that. He was from that era where you didn’t divorce. When he was home, he would take care of a situation that she had created. But when he wasn’t, we were at her mercy. And, uh, so that was the one thing we wish that he would have left and taken us. With him because it could be bad when he wasn’t there.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:07:13]:
So we felt like it would have been better to— for him to step in and, and help us all the time, when some of the time he would just let her take charge and we would be— we never knew what was coming.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:27]:
What do you feel is one thing that your dad taught you that has made a huge impact on your life?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:07:34]:
To be and do my best at everything that I tried.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:38]:
And if you had the opportunity to spend a day with your dad now doing anything, what would it look like?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:07:45]:
It would look like going to an, an old park where he would take my sister and I when we were children, going there and sitting on a blanket because we did that, uh, we did that often with him and sitting around and talking and, or possibly a movie. He was a big movie buff and knew all the actors and would tell us everything that he knew about them. It was a lot of fun to be with him, and he would play games with us. And today I would so love to be able to chase around with him and just enjoy his company.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]:
Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you have a program called Healing Artfully, and for dads who may not be familiar with your work, tell me more about Healing Artfully and what kind of challenges are families usually facing when they come to you.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:08:31]:
Healing Artfully is designed for children and teens who cannot express themselves in words. They, they don’t know where to begin. They really don’t know about their feelings. They’re kind of lost. And part of healing artfully is also journaling. And I teach them to spend, even if it’s 5 minutes, journal. Journal what happened that day. Journal how you feel.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:08:59]:
Their feelings are so important, and that’s the biggest part of the program. And I don’t just do— we don’t just do the mind, we do whole body. So you can’t just work on one part, you need to do the entire sweep of the body, okay, and the mind. So I teach them good habits, and if you establish good morning routines, that’ll keep you alive longer. It’s been proven. So I teach them to have good hygiene, to have a good exercise habit, whether it’s in the morning— even if it’s just waking up in the morning and getting out of the bed and marching for 4 minutes just to get your body started. And then later on in the day, do some exercises. We do the health, we do the, the food.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:09:55]:
We talk about a healthy diet. A healthy diet supports a healthy mind. And it just teaches them a good way to live their life. And then we work on solving the emotional part through the artwork. And there is no talent involved. It is strictly what you see in your mind, what you’re feeling. And we talk a bit about color and strokes and how those things can be— translated into your emotions. What this— what you’ve done and what you see on the paper talks about your feelings.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:10:35]:
And so we, we sit and discuss that, and that gives them an outlet to start talking. And eventually they open up and they start talking about their emotions. And that is not the only program. I have 4 other programs that we do, and it— I have a toolkit for parents where I give them dialogue and I give them worksheets and It’s bringing the parent and the team together. It’s family-oriented. You can’t have one person in the family working on their issues and no one else understands what’s going on. So we work as a unit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:14]:
I know that in a number of your programs you talk about expression and being able to use some creativity. And I guess, how can creative expression help daughters relate regulate emotions and how can dads participate in that process even if they don’t consider themselves— I’m gonna say artistic per se?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:11:36]:
Uh, well, the good thing about it is it doesn’t require any artistic skills at all as far as the healing artfully goes. They are, uh, the parents come in after sessions and we discuss the work together and a father and a daughter can really open up because I think fathers sometimes are they just feel awkward and really don’t know how to get their daughters to open up or to comfort them or— so if they’re brought in and we explain and talk about the work that their child has done, then it starts creating a little path for them to walk down to get to where they’re more comfortable approaching their daughters they’re more open and they’re ready to listen and it brings the families into— sometimes into a great discussion and they will talk about incidents that had happened throughout the week, how it was handled, what could we do now to handle that in a better way. I have had some great success with just using the art and giving the parents the know-how to handle many different situations with that child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:55]:
A lot of dads tell me that as they have gone through those teenage years, they sometimes feel shut out, especially when emotions run high. I guess from your experience, what’s really happening underneath those big emotions or disruptive behaviors, and how can dads be able to be helpful in those periods? But also, how can they come back in per se and not be as shut out in that whole process?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:13:22]:
Well, you’re right. Chris, that is definitely a time when fathers just kind of throw their hands in the air, and they do feel left out because a lot of times girls and their mothers don’t think that dad is really all that interested in this girly stuff. But in reality, they are, and it doesn’t have to be every little detail. But say if your daughter is preparing to go to a dance, then she can, uh, involve dad by putting on her dress and saying, “Dance with me! Let’s have a dance together before I—” have to dance at the prom, putting the dress on and asking dad what he thinks. Does he like it? Does he like the color? Just bringing him into what’s going on with his daughter. And moms can be a great service in that area too, to get dad going, get him interested, and get him to feeling comfortable about relating to his daughter in the feminine areas. I think men Um, and boys are— feel very awkward, and so they just kind of don’t respond at all when their response is so important. So it’s just an easy— it doesn’t have to be a big deal.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:14:36]:
Things are much easier than people imagine. Just doing us that simple thing like, hey Dad, I’m gonna go try on my dress, I want you to tell me what you think. Hey, let’s take a few dance steps together. Just something that gets him smiling and comfortable and they’re engaging with one another.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:55]:
So what I’m hearing you say is the reaction of a father is definitely very important. And I guess when I think about that, I know that when a dad reacts to his daughter’s stress with logic, fixing, or discipline, that can have kind of the negative impact. And I guess as you have seen that and worked with families, what impact does that make when a dad does come to that situation and try to provide logic, fixing, or discipline, which is kind of an MO for a lot of men or a lot of fathers. And I guess, what is a more emotionally attuned response that a dad can do?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:15:31]:
I would suggest that the father and the daughter set aside some time each week for a short talk. Doesn’t have to be a long drawn-out affair. Just, hey, let’s check in. Let’s put this on the calendar. Let’s check in on this day, and I want to hear what you’ve done this week, and I might have some suggestions for you, and then make suggestions for the next week and what you can do. I would like to see you accomplish this. How do you feel about that? Do you feel comfortable? Do you think you can get moving on that? Do you need some suggestions? Do you need some help? It’s so important that, that they are connecting and that there’s compassion and there’s thought and compassion and that everybody feels that. Everybody can sense that we’re working on a problem, but we’re having a good time doing it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:23]:
So it sounds like a lot of daily work. And I guess, are there specific small daily practices that dads can do to either work on the relationship, rebuild trust, and provide that emotional safety to a daughter, especially if their daughter is pulling back or maybe they seem withdrawn or reactive or overwhelmed?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:16:44]:
Well, the best thing that they can do is to not react themselves, to, to calm the situation down. To have the teen or the child— sit them down and have a conversation on— or you can definitely sit at a table and drag out a game that you play all the time, a deck of cards or something, and sit down and talk while you’re doing something that you both enjoy, um, and getting— sometimes that brings out the emotion and the problem, and then the father can deal with it in a more relaxed atmosphere. And they don’t have to get so down to the nitty-gritty. Just gradually work on completing the answer to the problems, the, the solution, and scheduling— like I said, scheduling a once-a-week check-in is a great way to do it. And if they’re, if they’re having— they’re highly emotional, calming them down with just something that they enjoy and something that you enjoy, then you can get them off of the intense emotion and sit down and start doing something that you both enjoy, and you’re just Talk about it and discuss it. And you might not get anything right away, but you just keep trying and you let them tell you when they are ready. They’re not going to sit down and be able to open up right away with every emotion and every problem, but after a while you’ll see them opening up and you’ll see that the parent, the father, is much more comfortable being in the situation that is so highly emotional. And it’s a daily or a weekly practice.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:18:24]:
I mean, Daily is the things that they’re supposed to be doing, and the parent can always be checking in. In the morning when you see each other for the first time, hey, how, how was yesterday? What are you going to do today? And that shows love and respect and concern, and, and the kids feel it. They know it. So it is a very hands-on, a very eye-opening and rewarding experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:49]:
Well, Cheryl, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing everything you’ve shared today. If people want to find out more about your programs, where should They should

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:18:58]:
go to Cheryl, Cheryl, at D-R-O-S-E-N-B-E-R-G-I-O.com. And I have a website there and they can ask for consultation. It’s a free consultation. And so I do that in order to start talking to them about where they need to start and what we need to start working with their child. And then I give them the supplies, the toolkit. Kit, and then I check in with them and we talk about that. I give them worksheets that they can use with their, their team. Um, it’s really a nurturing experience to go through this and have everyone be able to feel comfortable and feel cared for, and it does everybody a lot of good.

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:19:49]:
And they’d be surprised, they’ll be very surprised at the results that they get. And it usually— if it’s not a, a real deep problem, then they’ll see a turnaround in as little as 2 weeks. So it’s a great way to try to get the family back together, talking, communication, hands-on. It brings everybody to that point and we’re all working to get the resolution. And so no one feels left out and everyone will benefit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
Now, I always finish my interviews with what I like to call the Dad Connection 6, and usually I ask dads these questions, but when I have daughters on, I ask them some similar questions. So, quick questions for you. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your own father?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:20:37]:
Loving.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:38]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:20:42]:
Um, before my father passed away, he said to me, “What did I teach you?” And I said, “You taught me to do the best at anything that I tried.” And that’s my best from my dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]:
Now, you mentioned what your day would look like before, but what’s one activity you and your dad loved doing together?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:20:59]:
Painting. I mean, he was painting walls. That’s entirely different. From what I did, but he taught me techniques and just care of the equipment. I was so much further ahead than a lot of other people because I spent those hours with him just painting walls and cleaning brushes and preventing any paint splashes or paint on the floor, paint on the woodwork, just everything, because he was so meticulous. And I learned that too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:26]:
And as we finish up today, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Cheryl Rosenberg [00:21:34]:
I would say that being there, loving them, guiding them with your knowledge, giving them their space and allowing them to speak to the work that you’re all accomplishing, trying to accomplish, working on, and just be open and be honest. And the two of you will always be in sync if you start when they’re an early age.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:00]:
Cheryl, thank you so much for being here and for the incredible work that you’re doing with families. And dads, if there’s one thing I hope that you take away from this conversation, it’s this: it’s that your daughter’s big emotions aren’t a rejection of you. They’re often an invitation, an invitation to slow down, to listen, to regulate yourself first, to create safety. Connection doesn’t come from fixing, it comes from presence. And sometimes the strongest thing that you can do as a father is simply stay steady when— stay steady when the waves get big. If today’s conversation resonated with you, I encourage you to learn more about Cheryl’s Healing Artfully program and the tools that she shares with families. And I’ll make sure that there’s links in the notes today. Until next time, keep showing up, keep listening, and keep building that intentional connection with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:51]:
It matters more than you know.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:53]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, Being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:23:23]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen. Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Lead with Love: How Dads Shape Strong, Compassionate Young Women

February 2, 2026 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad hoping to build a closer, more meaningful relationship with your daughter, you won’t want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis invites educator, coach, mentor, and author Chad Mitchell to share stories and insights from his life as a father of two daughters (and six children total), as well as lessons from his new book, “Change Your Game.”

The Power of the Everyday Moment

One of the central themes Chad Mitchell brings to the conversation is the importance of the “little things.” As a father and now a grandfather, he reflects that the most meaningful moments with his daughters weren’t grand gestures or planned events, but simple time spent together—talking, listening, and just being present. It’s a reminder for all dads: you don’t have to be perfect or extraordinary for your daughter. What matters most is showing up authentically, creating spaces for laughter, listening, and sharing life’s ups and downs.

Balancing Guidance and Independence

Chad Mitchell is candid about his own journey learning how to guide his daughters while also giving them the independence to grow. He admits he was stricter with his first daughter, loosening up with experience. His key realization? Letting your children choose their own paths—whether in sports, music, or academics—helps them build confidence and resilience. He encourages dads to support their daughters’ unique interests, learn from mistakes (their own and their kids’), and “choose your battles wisely.”

Raising Leaders, Not Just Followers

A recurring lesson from Chad’s book and the episode is that leadership isn’t defined by age, popularity, or formal titles but by influence, kindness, integrity, and everyday choices. Dads play a unique role in helping daughters see themselves as leaders—right now, not just in the future—by labeling them as such and recognizing the ways they impact those around them.

Connection Through Listening and Vulnerability

Perhaps most powerful is the call for empathetic listening. Chad Mitchell believes that being fully present—with eye contact, without distractions—opens the door to trust and deeper connection. Sharing your own struggles and vulnerabilities, as appropriate, helps daughters realize they’re not alone in facing life’s challenges.

If you want real stories, practical wisdom, and encouragement for your journey as a dad, listen to this episode. You’ll leave inspired to engage more deeply, support your daughter’s dreams, and grow together, one honest conversation at a time.

Tune in and discover how you can truly connect with your daughter today!

If you enjoyed this episode, we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships, those connections that we have with our own daughters, working to help to make them be the strongest that we want them to be, the strongest that they can be. And we do that by learning, by growing, by continuing to look beyond ourselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:
And that’s why every week, I love being able to have you here and being on this journey with me. Today on the dad and Daughter Connection, we’re joined by someone who has dedicated his life to empowering young people to lead, to serve, and to believe that they matter. Chad Mitchell is a educator, a coach, an author, and mentor, and has a new book called Change youe Game. And it in this book, it really reminds us that leadership isn’t about age or status or titles. It’s about influence, kindness, integrity, and the everyday choices that we make. Chad has spent many years helping young people discover their voice and. And their courage. And today we’re going to talk to him about being a dad himself, a father of six, but we’re also going to talk to him about being a father of two daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]:
But we’re going to talk to him about this book, too, and gain a little bit more perspective about his own journey, but also some of the things that he’s learned along the way in working with youth in this way. So really excited to have him here. Chad, thanks so much for being here today.

Chad Mitchell [00:02:21]:
Chris, thanks for having me. I’m super excited. The intro just gives me goosebumps. I’m great. I love. I love this subject matter. I love my daughters. I love young women, and it’s going to be exciting time.

Chad Mitchell [00:02:32]:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:
Well, I’m really excited to have you here and to chat with you today and having two daughters, I know that your kids range in age from 17 to 35, so every child is a little bit different and your daughters came interspersed between the sons that you have as well. And I guess as you think about your two daughters, what are some of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made them so special?

Chad Mitchell [00:03:01]:
What are the most meaningful moments with my daughters? You know, it’s interesting that I would think they’re not if you. In the moment, they were just little things, Chris. They’re not. I mean, there’s probably a couple things like a daddy daughter dance that I would have taken my girls to when we lived in, in Chicago area, but I think a lot of them are just time together, listening, talking, smiling, and just doing really simple, seemingly mundane things. But as I get older and we have five grandchildren, all of them daughters, and I get to spend time with my daughters, being mothers now, it is the simple things. It’s holding a baby, it’s, you know, going to the store with them. It’s just really just that relationship. And there are so many little things that go into having a good relationship.

Chad Mitchell [00:03:51]:
And I would say just those moments of us together not doing anything fancy or crazy, but just enjoying each other and being each other’s company and sharing hard things, sharing sad things, sharing fun times and sharing silly dad jokes which they grown at still. But that’s all right. That comes with the territory.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:08]:
It does come with the territory. I’m not good at telling dad jokes. And when I say something that I probably didn’t mean to be a dad joke, I do get the groans too. So I completely understand that now. I know both of your daughters are grown and they’re adults, but as you think back to them growing up and you think back to the things that you did to help them become the women that they are today, how did you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into the women that they did become?

Chad Mitchell [00:04:39]:
So I think of Taylor Swift’s recent song Eldest Daughter, and I love the phrase that she talks about. Eldest daughter was the first lamb to the slaughter. And so I will, I’ll be the first to say, Chris, I’m a much better dad today than I was when our first daughter was born. So I don’t know how good a job I did back then, you know, as a first time parent. And you know, you have two daughters and that first one you probably handle differently than you’re handling the second one. And I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but you just learn a lot. And so I think I was much better with Chloe second daughter in terms of not trying to protect her from everything and trying to keep her from dealing with hard things. And so one great way to give them independence and let them create their own path is to try what they want to try.

Chad Mitchell [00:05:26]:
And whether that’s sports, whether that’s acting, whether that’s music, whether that’s cooking. I mean, giving your kids freedom to do and choose how they want to spend some of their time is a huge thing. And I’m a football guy, and so I wanted my kids to try football, except for my daughters. And that’s a whole nother story that Caitlin would love to tell you about how she was the one shot at letting having a football player, and I told her she couldn’t because she was a girl. Forgive me, Caitlin, but, you know, the kids didn’t gravitate to football, and so we needed to let them do lacrosse and let them do soccer and let them do music. And so I think just giving the kids the ability to choose their own way as early as we can in a safe way, is a huge part of helping them be independent and also learn from mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:13]:
Speaking about mistakes, all of us do make mistakes. We’re human. And as our children are born, there is no manual to tell us how to be a dad. And hopefully we’ve had some good role models along the way, but not every father does. So, as you think back to raising your daughters and having them be coming up through their ages into adulthood, what’s a mistake that you know that you did make as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering either a better positive connection or something else?

Chad Mitchell [00:06:45]:
So I will say that my dad was fairly strict. He was in the army as drill sergeant. And so you talk about role models and mentors, and we have those for good and ill. And my dad taught me a lot of great things. But like every parent, right, There are some things that I observed and saw that were not the best thing to do as a parent. And so I think being strict, as I already mentioned, with my eldest daughter and even with with Chloe, our fourth child, I wish I would not have been so strict. And it’s okay to be strict sometimes, but as my wife says, choose your battles wisely. Right? Is it really important to be strict about this thing that doesn’t matter at all? Because that was my experience growing up.

Chad Mitchell [00:07:29]:
Probably not. Do we need to be strict about, hey, you do your homework first, and then you go and play, and that’s the rule. And sure, there’s little exceptions because of unique circumstances, but, you know, the exceptions can’t swallow the rule. So I was too strict with my kids. I got better, and I’m even much better today, but it’s still a challenge, and I wish I wasn’t so strict. And so dad’s out there listening, you know, find those. Find those things that don’t matter as much and let things go. So we’re not constantly harping on or, you know, talking to our kids about little things as opposed to the things that matter most, which is them feeling loved by us and getting a lot of positive feedback from us, as opposed to, hey, did you do this? Why haven’t you done that? You missed this spot on the lawn.

Chad Mitchell [00:08:21]:
I mean, very practical things that some you follow up on, but a lot of them I’ve found out, they’re not important enough to degrade the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:29]:
Every one of us as fathers have to balance that. Like you were talking about the support and the challenge as we are working with our daughters, thinking about how you supported your daughters, how did you support your daughters in pursuing their dreams and their passions that they had for themselves?

Chad Mitchell [00:08:50]:
I would show up. Sometimes it was just a supportive parent in the stands or in the audience. Sometimes it was stepping up to be the coach because they didn’t have a coach. Sometimes it was, you know, taking off work and going to see them do a presentation at school. I think showing up, Kris, is one of the most important things we can do and make sure you show up in the right role that you have. Because when I’m not a coach, I don’t need to show up for my kids at their soccer game and coach them. I’m there to cheer them on. I’m there to be supportive of them and their team.

Chad Mitchell [00:09:23]:
And they have a coach. Let that coach do their job. Chad’s not coaching. Chad doesn’t need to coach. My kid at soccer, I’m there to cheer and support. So I think showing up and showing up in a way that’s going to be supportive and listening and just enjoying the moment and enjoying whatever the result is. If it’s a loss, there’s an opportunity to learn something from that. Right? If it’s a game that doesn’t go well, there’s an opportunity to learn something from that.

Chad Mitchell [00:09:50]:
And if it’s an awesome game and your daughter hustles and maybe doesn’t score a basket but plays super hard, oh, that’s so much to celebrate, right? Just showing up and giving it great effort, man. There’s a lot of success in that little simple recipe right there. So reward that. Be excited about that when that happens, point that out in our daughter’s lives. When we see that that can change maybe a bad or a situation that they’re not excited about, to see the good in it and see the way that they put forth effort which we can all control and turn it into a positive. Everything can be a positive if we look at it from the right perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:28]:
Now I mentioned that you have a new book called Change youe Game and it is a leadership book. It has has a lot of leadership principles within it, but it’s more than just that. It, as I looked through it and, and read through parts of it, it’s a, it’s a guide that really helps young people understand their value, their influence and the power that they have to change the world around them. I love the fact that you use stories and science and use some reflection prompts through with, along with real life examples. And you invited all of us as readers to see that leadership isn’t about age or popularity. It’s about, as I said at the beginning, integrity, kindness, courage, and the choices that we make every day. So as an author myself, I know how much time, passion, effort goes into putting something out into the world. So I guess before we dive too deep into some questions about the book itself, talk to me about the genesis story of why this book, why this topic, and why you wanted to put it out into the world.

Chad Mitchell [00:11:32]:
So why this book? So it was October 17, 2020 that I started writing this book. I went back once I got it published. It’s not available yet. It’ll be available in January. But I went back to say how long have I been working on this? When did I actually start? So I went back and looked at my files and it’s been five years and it was in Covid I was coaching, I coached spring lacrosse in Washington State, boys high school sport. And so that got cut off right before we had a game. I think the Thursday before we had a game on, on our first game of the season on everything got turned topsy turvy and we up here in Washington State, we did not have a season. So there’s a lot of extra time that I had on my hands and a lot of reflection, as I’m sure all of us did or most of us did during the unexpected Covid that shut down many parts of our lives about what matters, what’s important to me.

Chad Mitchell [00:12:24]:
And as I saw young people struggling with the reality of COVID and what it did to daily life. I was just trying to figure out a way that I could help beyond just the kids who I have influence over through church, through our neighborhood, through our community. And I felt like I should start writing this book. And so I started writing it, and it really. I don’t know that, Chris. I don’t know. That’s a book I could have written five years ago. As you said, I’ve been working with you since I was 18.

Chad Mitchell [00:12:53]:
The first time I coached youth sports was when I was still in high school. Someone asked me to help with a soccer team. So I have a lot of the experience, but I think the nuance and the perspective, you know, I’ve gone through some counseling, some therapy, and I just felt like I was finally at a point where I was comfortable enough with myself and really was trying to do it for the right reason, just to help youth and help us as adults figure out a way to tap the potential that our youth have, that the time was right. And so, yeah, a lot of time, a lot of energy. I asked myself, I’d be curious if you did this when you’ve written your books, Chris, is anyone going to read this? Is it going to make a difference? Am I wasting my time? Because so much time and a couple points along the way, I felt like this is worth doing. And lo and behold, here we are five years later, and it’s coming out into the world, which is super exciting. But I really would love to hear the answer to my question from you, Chris. Did you have imposter syndrome and doubts about whether this was the best use of your time as you slog through what a really hard thing to do in writing a book.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:55]:
Imposter syndrome is definitely real, and you will always feel that way. And you’ll have your people that you know will always say something nice. If your parents are still around, they’re going to say nice things. Your family’s going to say nice things. But it comes down to, okay, what are other people saying? People that you don’t know. And you have to always just kind of turn a blind eye to naysayers because you’re. There are always trolls out there, but there are people that will come out of the woodwork, and inevitably you’re going to find that people do really like it and that people will resonate with it. So keep moving forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:29]:
That’s all I can say at this point.

Chad Mitchell [00:14:30]:
Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate the encouragement, and it sounds like we had a very similar experience. But one more question. Doesn’t anyone go through Imposter syndrome before they make it. Because at some point, aren’t we all imposters?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:43]:
Yes, we always are. You always fake it till you make it and you hear that mantra. But it’s very true. And I think a lot of our kids do feel that they have to be perfect, especially kids these days. And that’s a challenge right now. I think as parents, we have to work with our daughters to be able to help them to see that they just need to be who they are, they don’t have to be perfect and that nobody’s expecting them to be perfect in any way.

Chad Mitchell [00:15:10]:
Social media makes that so hard, makes it so hard for our young men and young women to not feel like they have to live up and measure up to the artificiality they see on a constant basis through their phones.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:22]:
Well, and so many filters. And seeing the non reality of what life really looks like when you look at people through the lens of an iPhone and through the filter filters that are provided there, it can make anybody look great and make the reality of a person’s life look very different than what the reality really is now. You know, your book mentions and emphasizes that young people are not too young to lead and that their influence on peers is far greater than adults often realize. How can dads empower their daughters to see themselves as leaders right now, not someday in the future?

Chad Mitchell [00:15:58]:
Yeah, great question. And so one of the things I talk about in the book is labeling a leader, and I’m not sure exactly why, but calling our daughters leaders as opposed to saying they’re leading or they have leadership. But using the noun calling them a leader actually is more effective than labeling it something else. And so one of the things I’ve done with my kids in my learning journey, Chris, is will tell me how you are a leader today at school. And he may, or Chloe or, you know, it doesn’t matter if you’re a son or a daughter. And they may say, you know, Chloe may say, well, I don’t know that I was dad. I said, well, did you have a discussion with any of your friends? Tell me about that. And you ask questions in the appropriate setting.

Chad Mitchell [00:16:44]:
Right. Depending on your age of your daughter, she may not be interested in having that discussion with you. My experience is daughters are more open to having these discussions than a certain age of boys are. But I think you can point out little things to them that they don’t think of as being a leader and label that a leader and talk to them about them being a leader and help them connect that, yes, this Little thing I do, saying hi to my friend in the hallway and asking them what they’re excited about and then actually listening to their answer and remembering their answer. That’s a great leader, right? That’s connection with their peer. That’s helping somebody else feel seen and cared about and respected. And it’s so our kids don’t think about it that way generally. And so our role as dads is point that out to our daughters and help them explore that and see that and how that can have such a positive impact on their peers.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]:
One of the other things that I really liked in the book was throughout the book, you draw a line between integrity and inner peace. When, as you said, our shoes fit our feet, life feels right. How can dads help their daughters choose integrity, especially when fitting in or pleasing others, feels easier?

Chad Mitchell [00:18:00]:
I think the foundation that we need to try and give our daughters, Chris, is what I do in the book is explore principles. Right? If we have a foundation of principles that we try and use to guide our lives, then it’s going to be easier for our kids to understand why it’s important to be consistent with our principles. I mean, what principles are there? On just a random day on social media, there are no principles. Or if there are principles, the overarching principles are throw shade at other people. Look at me, I’m so cool. I have all these material things. And it’s so easy to get caught up in as we talk about in the book. But when we have principles that help govern our lives, such as I care about other people more than I care about material things, as a dad, I tell my daughters I love them and I love them more than anything else in the world.

Chad Mitchell [00:18:53]:
Right? And if they know that love is one of the principles that I care about and I show that to them, guess what they’re going to care about? They’re going to care about love. And that’s going to be an aspect of a principle, that they determine how it fits into their world. And so when we teach them principles about love, doing the right thing, even when it’s hard, being kind to others, being honest with others and yourself, it’s those principles rising to the surface in difficult situations. They’re going to help them make the right choice. And when they don’t make a right choice, we should have taught our daughters about making mistakes is part of the process, Right? Some of the greatest growth I’ve had is mistakes. Do my kids know that? Do my daughters know that? Absolutely. And I think that helps with. That’s got to Be one of the principles is mistakes are a part of life.

Chad Mitchell [00:19:42]:
We’re going to make them. The real question is, what do we do when we make them? It’s not are we going to make them? It’s how do we react when we make a mistake? And so that’s a great question, Kris. I don’t know that I did your question justice with my answer, but that’s what I got right now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:55]:
A number of your stories that you share talk about those that are Natural Helpers and Hope Squad, and you talk about that in your book. And it also relates to moments where young people saved lives simply by being trusted peers. What do you believe that dads can do to help their daughters become this type of friend that others feel safe talking to?

Chad Mitchell [00:20:16]:
The most important thing that a dad may be able to instill in his daughter’s, his daughter or daughters, I think is empathetic listening. And I talk about that in the book, Chris. And what I mean by that is whole self listening. You know, if someone is sharing with me a problem, so think about this as having a discussion with your daughter or she trying to have a discussion with you. The, the optimal way to do that is to put your phone away, is to sit and look at the person. It’s to not be distracted by other things. It’s actually not to think about what am I going to say in response to what Caitlin and Chloe are telling me. It’s I need to listen to what Caitlin and Chloe are telling me.

Chad Mitchell [00:20:56]:
I need to give them eye contact. I need to give them positive feedback that yes, I hear you. Keep going, keep telling me more. And it’s through that listening that we’re actually going to figure out things that we won’t know unless we can have that empathetic listening and the discipline to be in the moment, to care more about what that person is saying than what we feel or what we want to do. And that is life changing. And you’re right, Chris, in the story we talk about, you know, Hope Squad, they have had great success in reducing the number of suicides in the schools that they’re at by helping our young people understand how important it is for these trusted peers to listen to their peers and then to be trained so that if someone is showing suicide ideation, they know what to do. And so I think listening and being in the moment and mirroring and practicing that with our daughters. And I don’t mean practicing it in a way that is artificial, but I mean, dads step up, figure out how to do this because Anyone can do it.

Chad Mitchell [00:22:02]:
Step up how to listen effectively to our daughters. And, you know, if you’re doing it already, great, fabulous. If you’re not, watch that relationship improve immensely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:11]:
You have a lot of examples in the book also, such as Malala, Martin Luther King Jr. Huck Finn, people that were struggling or wrestling with courage, convictions, and choosing purpose over fear. How can dads invite their daughters into conversations about purpose, values, and doing the right thing, even when it might be hard?

Chad Mitchell [00:22:35]:
Being a dad is hard. It’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. And so we signed up for hard things when we decided to be a dad. Right, Chris? I think being appropriately vulnerable with our daughters is a good thing. When we struggle with things, I think it’s appropriate and good to share that with our daughters so that they understand that dad is just not this guy who bites down on his mouthpiece, grits his teeth and does things that are hard without feeling that they’re hard. You know, he’s just built that way. No, our daughters need to understand we struggle with those things. And sometimes we make mistakes, and sometimes we’re scared, and sometimes we don’t know what to do because guess what? They’re having all those same experiences.

Chad Mitchell [00:23:17]:
But so often kids look at adults and they don’t understand the struggles that adults are going through. And so I think as dads, really connecting our appropriate experience that are hard for us, that are challenging for us, where we make mistakes that are appropriate to share with our daughters based on their age, based on their circumstances, based on what we’re going through, I think that’s a great way for our kids to see the reality of what it means to live a life. It’s hard. There’ll be challenges, we’ll make mistakes, but hey, dad can do it. He’s not as funny as he thinks he is, and he can do it. I can do it, too. And I’m going to take confidence and examples from my dad, both his positive things and his negative things and the times he screwed up and use those to get through life when I do those same things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]:
Now, Chad, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions, they delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? You bet.

Chad Mitchell [00:24:09]:
Let’s do it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:10]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Chad Mitchell [00:24:14]:
Love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:14]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Chad Mitchell [00:24:18]:
I don’t know who to attribute this to, but it’s dads Love your mother. Let your daughter see how you love their mother. Because we want our girls to choose that type of relationship for their spouses. And I know some of our listeners probably divorced. I haven’t had that experience. I’m. I’m sensitive to it. And I would say, again, not having had that experience, if you can still love your wife at some level, your ex wife, I mean, that’s going to help everyone in that relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:47]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Chad Mitchell [00:24:50]:
Going for walks, especially walks on the. On the Oregon coast. One of my favorite things. I love it. Hikes. Well, I love going hiking with the girls. I’m not sure they always like to go on the hikes, but we always had a good time, the way I remember it, at least.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:02]:
Chris, if you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:08]:
Follow Jesus Christ.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:09]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:14]:
I got a lot to work on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:15]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:22]:
Be authentic. Don’t hide the hard parts of life from your daughters. You know, as appropriate, invite them into that. Let them see that there are things that you’re great at, but there are also things that you struggle with, things that you’re unsure about, because they’re going to have all those experiences. And I think you equip them better to deal with them if you can have those discussions about your experiences when you’re a father and their experiences as they go through teenagehood, which we know is a huge challenge.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:50]:
Well, Chad, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today and for sharing everything that you’ve shared. If people want to find out more about you or the book, where should they go?

Chad Mitchell [00:25:57]:
Well, I appreciate you having me on, Chris. This has been really fun. You ask really good questions. So hopefully these help the dads. If you want to find more out about me or my book, you can go to my website, jchadmitchell.com and the book will be available in January. And it’s change your game. Empowering young leaders to ditch doubt, find their voice, and impact the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:21]:
Well, that wraps up today’s conversation with Chad Mitchell and what a powerful reminder it was that our daughters matter. Their voices matter, their choices matter, and their leadership matters. As dads, we have the privilege of walking alongside them as they discover who they are and the impact they can have. Thank you for being a part of this community of fathers committed to raising strong, confident, compassionate young women. And if this episode encouraged you in any way, share it with another dad. We’ll see you next week on the dad and Daughter Connection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:57]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:07]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting.

Exploring the Many Faces of Father-Daughter Relationships

September 15, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

In a special episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down for a heartfelt conversation with Michele Filgate, editor of the new anthology What My Father and I Don’t Talk About, and two of the book’s contributors, Susan Muaddi Darraj and Joanna Rakoff. Their discussion dives deep into the intricate, emotional, and sometimes complicated relationships between fathers and daughters—and why these connections matter.

The episode opens with all three guests sharing luminous memories of their fathers: trips to bookstores and theaters, bonding over poetry, or learning life skills under a car’s hood. These small moments, they reveal, helped shape their identities and instilled confidence, independence, and a profound sense of being seen. Whether it’s Michelle’s story of her dad sightseeing at news stations to support her journalism dreams, Susan’s father teaching her to be self-sufficient, or Joanna recollecting her father’s irrepressible optimism despite family tragedy, the stories resonate with authenticity and vulnerability.

A powerful theme throughout the conversation is the diversity—the “spectrum”—of fatherhood. The guests discuss how no two parent-child relationships are the same, and how the book’s essays echo this truth. The episode also delves into how culture, memory, and generational dynamics play pivotal roles in shaping both closeness and distance within families. For immigrant daughters like Susan, a father’s traditions and sacrifices root identity and values; for Joanna, storytelling was both a magic veil and a way to process hidden family pain.

The conversation is not just about nostalgia; it’s about growth, honesty, and the hope that openness leads to better understanding. The guests reflect candidly on how writing about their childhoods and their fathers challenged them as both daughters and parents, inspiring them to be more transparent with their own children. Essential advice emerges: listen deeply, let your daughters into your world, and foster mutual trust.

The episode’s warmth and wisdom are a reminder that strengthening father-daughter relationships isn’t about being perfect—it’s about showing up, being present, and truly listening.

Whether you’re a dad, a daughter, or simply curious about family relationships, this episode promises thoughtful stories, practical advice, and a boost of inspiration. Listen now and discover new ways to connect and grow alongside those you love.

Ready to deepen your connection? Tune in to this moving conversation on the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]:
As always, every week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn and to grow and to find new ways to build stronger connections with our daughters. And that’s why I come back every week, and I know you come back every week, is to find those new ways and to identify new thoughts and perspectives. Because every week I love being able to bring you different people with different perspectives that can provide you with some new tools for your toolbox that will allow you to think about things in different ways and to allow for you to be able to bring those new learnings to the interactions that you’re having with your own daughters. And today, we’ve got three great guests. We don’t always have three people here, but we have three great guests today, and I’m really excited to have them here. We’re gonna be talking about a brand new book that is out there called what My Father and I Don’t Talk About. And this is a book that brings together 16 different writers, and in each of these chapters, they are speaking to the journey that they had with their own father and really how it allowed for them to become who they were. So it is an anthology.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]:
It follows the success of another book called what My Mother and I Don’t Talk about, which was very popular when that came out. And it is definitely a nonfiction book that allows for you to get a better understanding of of that fatherhood journey and how that fatherhood journey impacts daughters in different ways. So we’re gonna be talking about that book, but our guests today are the editor of the book, Michele Filgate, and then two of the authors, Susan Moady Dhiraj and Joanna Rakoff. I’m really excited to have all three of them here today to talk about their own journeys. And to help you in your journeys with your own daughters. Thank you so much for being here today.

Michele Filgate [00:02:56]:
Thank you for having us.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:02:58]:
Thank you.

Joanna Rakoff [00:02:58]:
Thanks so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:59]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And whenever I have daughters on the show, I always love to start the conversation with an opportunity to get to not only know your father a little bit better, but also get a better understanding of your own relationship and how that impacted you in different ways. So one of the questions that I would ask all three of you is, as you think back to the relationship with your own father, what’s one thing that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Michele Filgate [00:03:34]:
I would say that my dad used to take me to my local Barnes and Noble growing up and let me buy books. And that was always just. I loved that experience. He would go and he would go to the magazine stand because my dad would like to. He’s a musician, and he would buy, like, Billboard Magazine, but he’d let me go browse the book section and buy a few books for me. And that was always a special experience to go to the bookstore with him and feel like he was supporting my bookworm habit and also creating the writer that I would become years later.

Joanna Rakoff [00:04:09]:
Similarly, my dad was a former actor and comedian, and he had grown up in the theater. His father was a theater critic. The Yiddish theater, I should explain, but also the mainstream theater. And from my earliest childhood, I grew up around. Around New York. Took me to the theater with him. We went to the movies together, usually once or twice a week. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of actors, directors, screenwriters, playwrights.

Joanna Rakoff [00:04:34]:
And after those jaunts, after going to a Broadway show, we would go to Chock Full of Nuts, which something only New Yorkers probably remember, and have a sandwich or Danish and talk through everything. We would sort of talk through what we liked, what we didn’t like. And I think sharing his enthusiasms and his loves with me and bringing me into them, making me a part of them, was so integral to my becoming a person who was okay with being myself, if that makes sense.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:05:10]:
That’s so beautiful. My story is not that different, but my father never was able to go to college. He was an immigrant. He came to the United States in 1967. And I’m his eldest child and his only daughter, so I’m like the eldest daughter. We are a specific tribe of people, eldest daughters. And my father, even though he loves poetry and he writes poetry, was never really able to pursue that. He had to sort of work as soon as he arrived in the country.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:05:37]:
And he became a car mechanic for many years. And so I grew up kind of like just around him at his garage, and I would help hand him tools and things like that. And one thing I remember specifically, we would talk a lot while he was working on cars. And I remember specifically when I started to drive. I have three younger brothers. And so I was the lucky one that I was the first to do everything right. Like, I was the first one that he taught to drive. When he was teaching me how to drive, I was a very good driver.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:06:04]:
And then when I got my license, I thought, that’s it. I have my license. I can do whatever I want. And he made me. He would open the hood of the car and he said, you’re not driving until you can do these things. And he would make me learn how to change the oil, how to change a tire, how to jack up the car by myself. And I was like, why do I have to do this? I have a license. Can’t I just get behind the wheel and drive? And what he was teaching me was he told me, I want you to always know that you’re capable and that you have to be independent and that you are able to do these things, like, nothing should ever make you afraid.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:06:41]:
And I don’t remember any of my other friends in school having their father do that, which at the time I thought was not a great thing. But now I. And I realize I always grew up thinking I was capable. I never once in my life imagined I was incapable of anything. And I think it’s because of the way that he treated me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]:
All three amazing stories and definitely so important to build that confidence in our daughters in that way. I guess looking back, as you think about, again, your father, was there a moment where your dad’s support or guidance had a significant impact on your growth or your confidence. And it may be similar, Susan, to what you just said, or maybe something different.

Michele Filgate [00:07:24]:
I have a really vivid memory of my father, really encouraged my love of journalism. So in college, I was a journalism major. And when I was a kid, we were at Subway sandwich shop, and he saw Carol Jenkins there, who at the time was one of the anchors on NBC in New York City. And I grew up in a small town in Connecticut, an hour outside of the city. So he brought me over to. To meet her, and she invited me to come to NBC and shadow her for the day with my father. When I was probably 10 years old or 11. I can’t remember the exact age, but that became a really important relationship for me.

Michele Filgate [00:08:02]:
And it was so special that I got to do that with my dad. My dad always loved watching the news, and he wanted to support whatever I was interested in doing. So he came with me. And I still remember, you know, us getting a picture together with Carol Jenkins and Chuck Scarborough and Al Roker and it was. And Sue Simmons, who was there at the time, too. And it was such a pivotal experience for me. And then I ended up going on to be an intern at 60 Minutes when I was in college for Ed Bradley and two of his producers. And after college, I worked for the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric for my first job out of college.

Michele Filgate [00:08:41]:
So I just vividly remember, like, once I was there, how much my father’s influence and voice was in my head. I was so nervous the first day as an intern, and then again the first day, this job right out of college where I’m the production secretary helping organize Katie Couric scripts. And I kind of felt like I was in Broadcast News the movie. I was so excited. And my father wore a CBS News hat and was bragging about me to all of his friends. He was just really proud of me. And so whenever I feel. Felt really scared or nervous, I just remembered that I just heard my dad’s voice in my head.

Michele Filgate [00:09:20]:
I felt like he was there with me, just like he was there with me when I was a little girl going to visit Carol, who became such an important mentor to me as well. So I feel like my dad helped connect me, helped set me on the path for building my confidence in myself, and that was invaluable.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:09:36]:
I remember when I was in high school again, I grew up in a very working class family, and there was. We just did not have a lot of money to go around. And so the question of college was always. There was always a big question mark on that situation. I had three siblings younger than myself, and there was a lot of talk in immigrant families when people are sort of struggling to make it. There’s always this question of to whom should we throw our resources? Should we. We have four children. Can we give a lot of money to one to go to college? How can we work that and be fair? And I graduated at the top of my class, and I was excelling in English and literature studies.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:10:13]:
And my father had bought me a typewriter at one point, which was a big deal to have a typewriter when I was younger. And then later he bought me a word processor. I remember it was like this thing with a little Tiny screen. It was like a big deal for me to have one. And he said, this is for you to type your stories and your essays and because you’re going to be a writer. But when it was time, when I was graduating from high school, there was a lot of talk in the wider family about. People would tell my father, maybe you shouldn’t send her to. You should save the money for the younger children.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:10:44]:
And he asked me, do you want to go to college? And I said, yes. And he said, okay, well, we’re going to make it work. And we did, and he did. And he took on extra shifts, and my mother worked as well. And so I’m very grateful that they believed in me. It’s a very surprising thing. I’m the first girl in my entire family to go to university. It was a really big deal for us as a family, as a wider community.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:11:06]:
So I’m very grateful for his support in me and his belief in me.

Joanna Rakoff [00:11:10]:
Oh, my God, Susan, I’m, like, about to cry. What I have to say about my father is so much less cataclysmic than either unmomentous than either of the things you two discussed, but I’ll just say so. I was born in 1972, and my parents were, for the time they were, you know, kind of geriatric. They were in their 40s. And a year before I was born, my parents had lost two children, my older brother and sister, who were 12 and 14. And I had one. Their oldest, my oldest sister was still around, so she was 18 when I was born. And so I was born into this family that had just suffered this horrible, horrible loss.

Joanna Rakoff [00:11:51]:
And I grew up not knowing about this loss. But, and this is the important part, my mother was, of course, incapacitated by the loss of these two children. And she was a person who I found out as a grownup had suffered a lot of loss prior to this and had had a pretty. This is what my essay is about. Had had a pretty difficult upbringing, but my father was, you know, he had been a comedian. He is a very, by nature, cheerful, buoyant, incredibly resilient person. And he was able to bring that cheerfulness, that good humor that what my mom would later call, after he died, the shining light of his love into every aspect of my day. And I don’t know what I am by nature.

Joanna Rakoff [00:12:42]:
Like, I don’t know if I’m resilient by nature. I don’t know if I’m cheerful by nature at all, because I think being raised by him led me to Be a person who felt that I could face anything, that I could overcome anything. A friend of mine once described me as someone who could always spin straw into gold. And. And I was shocked when she said that. But while writing the essay from Michelle, I thought about the ways in my father’s approach to life and the ways in which he was always there for me and the ways in which he was never afraid of strong or negative emotions in a way that my mother would just shut down. Like if I started to cry, she would say, stop crying. Stop crying this instant.

Joanna Rakoff [00:13:28]:
Stop crying right now. Stop crying. And my father would just hold me in his arms and listen to what was wrong. So more subtle, but something.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:13:37]:
Now I’m crying.

Joanna Rakoff [00:13:39]:
Me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:41]:
I really appreciate all three of you sharing those stories. Now I think I’d love for you to reflect back and think about that perfect day. If you could spend an entire day still with your dad doing anything, what would that look like?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:13:55]:
So my father, as I said, he loves poetry. And I’m so lucky to have my father. He just turned 80 in December, so he loves poetry. And he has committed to memory entire poems and Arabic poems. His first language is Arabic. Just like massive quantities of poetry that he can just call up. And he told me once I do that because when I was working in my shop, I would just recite poetry to pass the time as I was working, I couldn’t stop and consult the book. So I just committed it to memory.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:14:26]:
So his memory is incredible. And I remember when I was growing up and I was still living in my parents home, he would walk around the house just kind of reciting poems and he would stop me, I would be walking from like my bedroom to the bathroom and he would say, susan, stop, listen to this stanza. And he would like recite the stanza. And at the time when I was a teenager, I was like, I really need to do my hair and get to school. Like, I have things to do. But now I think if I could spend the whole day with him, I would just sit and listen to him. I wouldn’t even say anything. I would just listen and let him recite poetry to me.

Joanna Rakoff [00:14:59]:
My dad passed away a long time ago, and in his final years, he had a neurological ailment that is not that well known, but it manifests as Parkinson’s. Like if you met him, you would think he had Parkinson’s, essentially. And so he was radically incapacitated in his last year. And so when I think about, like, if I could spend a day with him, I. I think if I Could spend a day with the him before this disease wrecked him. He was a person who was so adventurous and active, and he loved to travel. He traveled all over the world. He joined the Air Force right after he finished dental school.

Joanna Rakoff [00:15:37]:
And when he enlisted, he wrote on his application, he got drunk when he filled it out, and even though he wasn’t a big drinker and wrote, I am only joining if you will send me somewhere in Western Europe in all caps. And so they sent him to Germany, and he used the two years that he was stationed there to travel to every single country in Europe except Spain and Portugal. I don’t know why. Maybe he just didn’t get there. And so if I could spend just one day with him, I think that I would spend it doing as many of the things that he loved to do. Like, he loved to play golf and tennis. He loved to take long walks in the woods. He loved to hit a handball against a court.

Joanna Rakoff [00:16:15]:
Like, he was really. He was a huge athlete. He played college basketball for City College. I would spend some time doing something like that with him, despite having not inherited his athletic ability. I would go to the driving range. He loved food. I would take him to eat a pastrami sandwich and a pickle, and then maybe I would take him to the movies and then get ice cream and talk about that movie and what was terrible in it and which actors were miscast and which were not and what scenes he would rewrite. And I would then take him to spend the rest of the day with as much of our family as I could.

Joanna Rakoff [00:16:52]:
He was really, really close, even with my mom’s side of the family, with her cousins, and he loved nothing more than a massive family gathering.

Michele Filgate [00:16:59]:
I’m gl. I’m not wearing mascara right now during this podcast recording because didn’t expect it to get so emotional listening to Joanna and you, Susan. Oh, my gosh.

Joanna Rakoff [00:17:10]:
Same.

Michele Filgate [00:17:11]:
Yeah. My father is still around, too, but I think that a perfect day would be going to a place that is no longer a place we can go to for us. So it would be. My grandmother and I wrote about this in my essay for the book. My grandmother, my dad’s mom, passed away in 2019, and her home, she was the matriarch of the family, and her home was the gathering place for our family. And the house no longer belongs to our family. But when my parents were still married, when I was really young, we lived with my grandmother there. So that is my childhood home, and it was on a lake, and it now belongs to a new family.

Michele Filgate [00:17:53]:
And that’s still so hard to wrap my head around. And I think, and I know that it’s hard for my dad, too. Like, he’s talked to me about driving past it and seeing, like, the house and the feelings, how emotional he gets seeing the house and knowing it no longer is in our family. And I think about our family home videos, how my dad was so obsessed with On Golden Pond, the movie that he somehow. I don’t even know how he did this, except he had a recording studio, so he must have figured out how to do this. But he put on our home videos from, like, this was back in the 90s. He put, like, this soundtrack from On Golden Pond, like, over images of, like, me and my dad and I have siblings as well, and, like, of us walking down the road toward that lake. Windwing is what it’s called.

Michele Filgate [00:18:40]:
And so I think that a perfect day with my dad would be watching that movie again On Golden Pond, because it just makes me think of my childhood and the beauty of that lake. And it would be going for a walk around the lake with him and also driving to a place that no longer exists. A lot of my core memories from my childhood are my dad driving me to the. This little market that was called Peach Lake Market in nearby. In North Salem, New York, like, just over the border of Connecticut. And it was this little country market store where I would get a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich, and I’d buy an Archie comic or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I’m really showing my age here. And I feel like there was something about the containment of the car.

Michele Filgate [00:19:24]:
Like, that was where we could just be ourselves with each other. It was easier than, like, sitting down and having a conversation, you know? And so I would. I would do that. I would spend a day doing that, of going to a place that no longer exists except in my mind, and a home that still exists, but is no longer in my family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:45]:
I want to transition into talking about the book. And each of you have talked a little bit about the stories with your own dad. And in the book, you bring those stories to the forefront. And, you know, as an author, myself, as someone that has gone through that process, I’ve been an editor as well. So I truly appreciate the work, Michelle, that you put into bringing all of those different writing styles, different stories together. And I guess, Michelle, first, before I even talk about your essay that you submitted, you know, this book follows the success of the book that I mentioned earlier. What my mother and I don’t talk about. Why was it important for you to create a companion volume that focused on fathers.

Michele Filgate [00:20:29]:
It felt like a natural fit. And also while I was touring around the country for the first book back in 2019, and then when the book went viral twice on TikTok, in those viral social media posts and when I was on tour, I kept hearing from people again and again saying, I want a book about fathers. I need a book about fathers. So. And I also feel like we’re now in a time where there is a focus on fatherhood and looking at it in a more nuanced way, we’re starting to see, even in pop culture, we’re seeing new portrayals of what fatherhood can look like and allowing men to be more vulnerable and to kind of break the mold of what fatherhood like has traditionally always looked like. So I wanted to have a book that looked at the wide spectrum of different experiences with fathers. And I felt like that was really.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]:
Important in reading the book and in looking at all of the different essays you had to curate all of those. As an editor, what themes or contradictions about fatherhood surprised you the most across that contributions?

Michele Filgate [00:21:37]:
A lot of people have asked me about what has surprised me. I feel like as a writer and a reader, as a. And as a human, nothing has really surprised me just because I expect fatherhood to not look just one way. Right. I expect to see a lot of different versions of fatherhood and what fatherhood can look like. But I think it’s more just that the individual essays that all the authors and this book really moved me with how open they were and how vulnerable they were on the page about portraying their own experiences. And I felt like everyone was really generous with writing about their father, and it allows the reader to really get to know their father. And I think it’s so hard to turn a parent into a character on the page that then a stranger is going to read.

Michele Filgate [00:22:27]:
And I think that’s a very difficult and challenging thing to do about someone who. Especially if it’s someone who you knew really well. And so I think, for me, again, I don’t know that I was surprised, but I was just moved by all of the different essays in here, whether the person had a good relationship with their dad or a terrible relationship. And there are a variety of pieces here, so there’s something that will speak to everyone, I think.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:54]:
Now, your essay, called Thumbs up, captures the fragmented but affectionate way that you and your father communicate, almost like as you kind of talk about two frogs on a lily pads. How did that image help you understand the rhythm of your relationship with him.

Michele Filgate [00:23:10]:
Yeah, I mentioned that the, you know, we’re. Because we both have adhd, that it is like we’re two frogs on lily pads when we’re talking and we’re always skipping from topic to topic. That helped me understand the. The ways in which we communicate and we don’t communicate and that these texts my dad sends, these messages he sends me on Facebook or the texts he sends me on my ph, or these phone calls, because that’s a lot of what my piece is about, and it’s called Thumbs up after his favorite emoji. He loves to use the thumbs up emoji. I’ve learned that these are his ways of showing his love. And I often don’t have deep conversations with my father, and I’m okay with that because I know that this is how we communicate and this is how we show our love for each other is through these quick phone calls, these quick messages where he. He’s telling me to watch out for sharks when I’m not anywhere near the ocean.

Michele Filgate [00:24:02]:
I’ve really come to appreciate just his sense of humor and his quirkiness and the ways in which he shows his love. And ever since my Uncle Jim took his own life in 2019, he was my dad’s best friend, and he’s really tried to fill that hole in his life by calling his three adult daughters all the time. And so a lot of times at very inconvenient times, like when I’m in a zoom meeting, I’m surprised he hasn’t called right now recording this podcast, but I think that that image of the frogs really helped me also with just structuring my essay, because it does kind of leap from section to section.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:38]:
You know, the loss of your uncle definitely reshaped your father’s behavior based on what you wrote. And your piece becomes quite a quiet elegy to sibling connection. How did witnessing that relationship affect how you view your father now as a man, a brother, and a dad?

Michele Filgate [00:24:58]:
My uncle was younger than him. My dad was the oldest of four boys. But I feel like my uncle kind of took on the older brother role with my dad a lot. And so with Uncle Jim gone, I think my dad has really had to take on that older brother role for the first time. In some ways, it was everything to me because I saw that deep, unconditional love he had for my Uncle Jim is similar to the deep, unconditional love he has for his daughters and his son. And so it was an important thing for me to witness. And going through that grief together was heartbreaking with the loss of Uncle Jim. And then Mimo a few months.

Michele Filgate [00:25:41]:
She died three months after. Meemo was my grandmother, as she died three months after Uncle Jim. So our family went through this really terrible year, personally. But it also made me realize how important our memories are. They’re everything, right? Thinking about what we’re talking about today, even with Susan talking about your dad memorizing these poems, I think our memories are so crucial. They are part of our legacy, which is why it’s so devastating when people lose their memories, because memories are such a core part of us and also the objects that we have. I write about that a lot in my essay, too, that my father kind of has his shrine in his office. And I think a lot of dads are like this, like these objects that remind them of their unique.

Michele Filgate [00:26:26]:
And I have kind of inherited that as well, because it’s these things that become sort of totems that remind me of that unconditional love from my father, from my grandmother, from my uncle.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:38]:
Now, toward the end of your essay, you reflect, like you said, on memory, on keepsakes and preserving scent or feeling through physical objects. What role do these rituals of memory play in how you understand your father’s and your own emotional legacy?

Michele Filgate [00:26:54]:
I think memories, they help us reflect on what we’ve been through, right? And also, as we’re holding on to memories, they’re kind of shifting, too. I talk about this as a teacher when I teach writing. When we’re writing about our own lived experience, we kind of change that memory a little bit when we write it, because then our memories become the story that we told rather than just that lived experience, rather than just that memory. And so I think that our memories are transformed when we tell them, whether we write them down or when we’re sharing them with others, they’re like living memories. They’re reshaped somehow. So I think about that a lot, too. And that kind of goes with this idea, too, that I feel like everyone in this book and in the first anthology, if you ask them to write about their same parent five years from now, that what they write might be very different based on where they are in their lives and how their relationship has changed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:50]:
Now, Susan, you wrote a piece called Baba Peels Apples for Me. And your piece delves into, as you mentioned earlier, the eldest daughter syndrome in a Palestinian American household. How did your father’s cultural expectations shape your early sense of responsibility and identity?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:28:09]:
So I think it took me a long time to understand that my father is actually. He’s essentially a refugee, and he’s been through a lot of trauma, and he’s experienced a tremendous loss, which is having to leave his homeland. And that in that loss, like, you know, there’s a lot committed to memory, as you said, Michelle. Like, I mean, I grew up hearing stories about my father and his childhood. In fact, when I’ve gone to his village, you know, I can actually look at an older building and I can say, oh, that’s where Ibn Musa and my father played together. You know, I know these stories so well. It’s almost like he’s used his memory as, like, a way of documenting these things to us. But also he felt that, like, our culture, even though we were Americans now and he was raising American children, essentially, he felt that our culture was a way to ground us in something.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:28:59]:
And some people do that with different things. Like, some people feel that their religion grounds them in something. My father is not really religious. We’re a Christian family. But he’s not like, really, as he would say, he hasn’t really completely bought the whole organized religion thing. He’s not really into it, so. But he’s a spiritual person. But he felt that culture is a way of grounding you in something that’s real, so that you know who you are and who you are might change.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:29:22]:
But he felt that America was a wonderful country, but it was just such a big country with so many different people and different ideas. And so if you don’t have something to ground yourself in, you might get lost, and who you are might change. Like, you might learn about another type of identity or another value system that you prefer more. But at least you’re starting with something that’s solid. And so he raised us with what are essentially the cultural values that he was raised with. And I’m grateful that he did. I have. I’ve kept many of them, and I’ve raised my children with many of them.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:29:55]:
And many of them I have just turned away from and decided they’re not for me. And I think I’m grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:01]:
Now, you describe both distance and tenderness with your father like the scene of him peeling apples. How did writing this piece help you reconcile those emotional contradictions?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:30:12]:
Well, I think the distance came from a lot of his fears. You know, my father, I think his greatest fear was that he would not be able to provide us with a life that was fulfilling. And he’d already lost so much that it was very important to him to provide us with a home and something that was lasting. So I grew up as the Eldest child, I think, being sort of the testing ground for those fears. It’s hard to explain unless you’ve grown up with immigrant parents, that there’s so much that they want to give you, and it’s because they’re afraid of losing it forever. Like, if they don’t pass it on to you, like the language, the food, the values they feel if they don’t pass these things on to you, these things are lost forever. And so the distance, what I learned as I became older, I just turned 50 this month. So as I became older, I learned.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:31:03]:
Didn’t take me till I was 50. I think I was about 30 when I realized that all that distance, that those tense moments were because he was afraid. And I think I said in my essay that we were kind of learning about living in America. At the same time. He didn’t know American culture. I mean, he came here in 67. I was born in 75. And I’m very sure he and my mother planned to go back.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:31:25]:
Like, they were waiting to be able to go back, but they were told they could never go back. And so to their shock, they realized they were going to be raising a family in this country that they were still not familiar with. And that’s very scary. And that’s where the tension and distance comes from. But my father is a very loving and openly loving person. I mean, I never. And my children never see my father without getting big hugs and kisses on the cheeks. And he’s very, very emotional, and he shows his love in lots of different ways.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:31:53]:
But he also is very direct and says, I love you. Sometimes he’ll just text me and say, I love you. I hope you’re having a good day. I mean, I’m very lucky to have grown up like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:02]:
Speaking about those words, you mentioned the importance of language. How your father used Arabic endearments but also demanded silence or obedience. How has language, or lack of it, defined your relationship with him?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:32:18]:
You said he demanded obedience. Even if it’s interpreted like that. I would say even those things were because of his fears. Right. So, for example, he never wanted me in high school to date because he thought that dating was going to distract me from my studies and I would not have time for my studies. And then what would happen if I. I. And he didn’t want me to go out late because he knew that his co workers, that their children would be out late.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:32:45]:
And he would hear stories about how they came home drunk or they had car accidents. And this was like a major fear. Like, this was something that when I have teenagers myself and I worry about these things. But I think for him, this was such a shocking thing that he was afraid that I would be harmed or I would. So and so he clamped down. Right. The language issue comes into play, I think, because he always spoke to me in Arabic, and sometimes when I was angry, I would answer him in English. Every immigrant, every child of immigrants knows that trick.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:33:16]:
It’s the most passive aggressive thing you can do if your parents are immigrants. But I think that his real true self came out when he was speaking in Arabic. Like he could find the exact words he wanted to use when he was using his own language. And he speaks fluent English, of course. He speaks it with a very heavy, very charming accent, which everybody loves when they talk to him. They’re very charmed by it. But Arabic is definitely the language in which he best expresses himself and where all the nuanced things he wants to say are made clear when he speaks in Arabic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:49]:
How do you see your role as a parent now, especially when reflecting on the inherited patterns from your father’s parenting style?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:33:57]:
Well, I’m raising an eldest daughter, and there are maybe some responsibilities I’m very careful not to. To not to put on her, although I do find myself really liking her. And she’s like my. I call her my vice president because an eldest daughter. And maybe this is true for eldest sons too, I don’t know. But there really is a sort of like second in command kind of energy that we bring to the table, I think, like my daughter, really. A lot of times if I need something, I don’t even have to express what I need. She kind of looks at me, she says, oh, let me go to the car for you, or, or, hey, I can go pick up my brother.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:34:33]:
Let me do that for you. So there’s like this energy that she brings that I think my mother has said I had the same vibe when she was raising me. So that’s kind of like a remarkable thing. But I try not to lean on that too much. It’s easy to do it, but I try not to. I try to share with my children the values that I’ve kept from my upbringing, especially the value of, or the belief in themselves as capable people, no matter what they need to do, that they are capable people, that even if they. They fail, they can learn something from the failure. That’s something my father taught me for sure, that even if you fail, there’s a lesson you take from that and the next attempt will be a smarter attempt, a more strategic Attempt, whatever it might be.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:35:16]:
So I think I’ve passed that on to my children. I hope I have. We’ll see what they write about me in 25 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:22]:
Now, Joanna, you wrote a piece called the Storybook Childhood, and your essay paints your father as a storyteller, both enchanting and elusive. How did his constant reinvention of truth affect your ability to trust narratives, both personal and professional?

Joanna Rakoff [00:35:40]:
Growing up, I was not aware that there was an elusive. That he had an elusive relationship to truth. I just believed everything he told me and did really feel that I myself had kind of a storybook childhood. That title refers to my mother’s childhood, but I sort of bought the Kool Aid. I think, below the surface, I knew that there was something awry, that I wasn’t being told the whole story, and also that there were things within me and things happening in my life that didn’t fit the narrative of the Storybook Childhood. But I myself sort of squelched them down to kind of fit my father’s defining narrative for our family. As an adult, as I’ve slowly come to understand that the kind of predominant story of my childhood and of our family was not what it seemed, I think that it’s not made me in any way less trusting of other people, but it has made me a critic, which is to say I mentioned my father, and I would go to movies and critique them after. My father was also, perhaps ironically, perhaps not a huge, huge reader who loved criticism.

Joanna Rakoff [00:36:52]:
So he introduced me to Pauline Kael, the legendary film critic who he adored. He was a person who. He read the New Yorker every week, and he would read the Critic at Large section first. And so I then started doing that when I was maybe like 8 or 9 years old. I was very young, and my eldest child, who’s 20, my son, who’s not relevant to this podcast, he started doing the same thing in third grade. He started reading the New Yorker, the critics section first. And so I guess this is perhaps not a satisfactory answer, but I think that there’s a way in which the kind of silent message of my childhood and my kind of coming of age and realizing that there was a lot below the surface was to regard everything in life with a critic’s eye. And I think it’s not a coincidence that I started life as a literary critic.

Joanna Rakoff [00:37:40]:
I thought that was what I wanted to be. I wanted to be like Lionel Trilling or T.S. eliot, except not racist and a Nazi, whatever. But I wanted to be a kind of high literary critic. And then when it Became clear that I wasn’t cut out, out for academia, that I didn’t want to continue on and get my doctorate, that I couldn’t write in academic language. I became a book critic, basically, and also did theater criticism, food criticism, stuff like that. I think that I view the world through this critical lens, always thinking about what’s the counter narrative, what’s the story below the story, and also, what’s going on behind the scenes, how was this made, what happened? And also, and here I am giving you, like, five levels of one little thing also. What are the sociocultural ideas that were in the back of the writer, the showrunner, the cinematographer’s mind that shaped every aspect of this piece of culture? I can’t watch anything, read anything, be privy to any piece of art without thinking about all of these things at once.

Joanna Rakoff [00:38:40]:
And I think that’s really what happened to me from growing up in this family, where there’s this one truth and then there were several of them, other truths lurking beneath it that were never spoken of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:51]:
Now you recount the storybook world your father created, often masking deeper wounds or realities. How did writing this piece help you uncover those layers of illusion?

Joanna Rakoff [00:39:03]:
This is a really unsatisfactory answer. That seems to be my theme for this round of questions. But the actual sitting down and writing of the essay and having to face these truths about my father is actually what allowed me to uncover those truths. As in, so I’m writing a whole book. My new book, which I’m under contract for, which is overdue, which is called the Fifth Passenger, is about essentially uncovering family secrets. And it’s much more focused on the secret about my late brother and sister who. Whose lives and death were kept from me, which meant that many, many other things were kept from me, which meant that I didn’t understand anything about my family. I didn’t understand why my mother would burst into tears when I walked into the room.

Joanna Rakoff [00:39:52]:
I thought I was doing something wrong, that kind of thing. So it’s focused on that. And in writing this essay, which is focused on another secret that plays into the book, in this particular book, I talk about my family, kind of of both my parents coming from a culture of secrecy for different reasons. My mom, you know, for the reasons that I discuss in the essay, that she grew up feeling ashamed of herself for existing. For listeners out there who, of course, haven’t read the essay, my mother was born in 1930, and her father abandoned her mother in the hospital. And she was from a very small town. Her mother had moved to New York City, married, had her at a very young age, and was left with this infant and no one nowhere, no money, nothing. She had a big diamond ring, but that was it.

Joanna Rakoff [00:40:41]:
And so she went back home to her small town. And it was almost as if my mother’s father, her biological father, had vanished. My mother was given her family as her maternal family’s last name. And I understand now was kind of regarded as kind of a social pariah in this conservative small town. You know, the child of a single mother. No one knew anything and no one had ever, ever seen her father. And there’s much more to it. But.

Joanna Rakoff [00:41:07]:
So she sort of grew up in this culture of secrecy, never talking about her father, never talking about her mother being a single mother, none of these things. And my father, on the other hand, was a red diaper baby. So his parents were communist. They were really socialists, but they were leaders in the Socialist party, they were labor activists. And during the McCarthy era, they didn’t literally go underground, but they buried this part of their past. And my father has a 500 page FBI file, and he was an actual child when his, you know, he was either unborn or a child when his parents were engaged in these activities, but he still has that file. And everyone in my father’s family, actually on both sides, has a huge FBI file. So no one ever spoke of this.

Joanna Rakoff [00:41:51]:
I actually only found out the real truth about this when my grandmother died and I inherited her apartment and I found all these papers and I was like, what is this? And my mother was like, don’t talk about it. So they both come from these kind of cultures of secrecy, which I’m trying to investigate in the book. But the real point of my mentioning all this is just that I think there is something in my personality, maybe there’s something in everyone’s personality in which I really maybe just didn’t want to know all of this, even though I’m writing a whole book about it. And I wrote a gazillion page proposal that I want worked on for years. And I’ve been working on this book for years. Part of me just doesn’t want to know. Part of me just wants to think of my family as this happy family and wants to continue to drink the Kool Aid. And so writing this essay for Michelle was really difficult.

Joanna Rakoff [00:42:37]:
I really didn’t want to write it. I really, really avoided telling the truth about my mom’s childhood, about my father manufacturing these layers and layers, layers of lies about it. And I guess this is one of the things that Happens when you write memoir. I’m not. I’m really a novelist. I’m not a natural memoirist. Maybe I don’t like to tell the truth. I don’t like to uncover hard truths.

Joanna Rakoff [00:42:59]:
But having to sit down and actually work on it, which I really did under duress, one of my closest friends basically, like, kidnapped me and brought me to her country house and like, locked me away until I wrote a draft of it. Forced me to kind of figure out my own feelings about this, and also helped me figure out out who I am as a mother and a wife. And what do I do? My husband read the essay. One of the. There were many drafts of it, but one of the earlier drafts, and he said, the thing that you’re leaving out here is how you’re culpable in this kind of family tradition of aggrandizing the past and aggrandizing your family and glamorizing your family members, including your father. And he was sort of saying, you’re doing the same thing that your dad did for our kids. You’re making your father and your mother into these larger than life glamorous figures. And I thought, oh, my God, he’s.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:54]:
Completely right, you know, in speaking about that and being a parent today. How has your father’s fondness for storytelling influenced the way that you do communicate truth or fiction with your own children? And in writing this, has it affected or impacted or changed the way in which you now reflect and talk with your kids?

Joanna Rakoff [00:44:18]:
Writing this really did change the way I talk with my kids, definitely. I think I made a conscious effort to be more transparent with them in every way, to not sugarcoat things, to not talk about my family and the past in sort of sepia toned images, to kind of go behind those. My parents were both very attractive people, and we have all these, like, glamorous photos of them and glamorous clothing, and my son loves to pull them out and look at them. And I feel like there’s a sort of really powerful metaphor in that. In that those images only tell one part, one very small part of a huge emotional, socio, cultural, historical, economic history. And I think I really have become aware of the need to be as honest and to put things in context for my kids and to not exaggerate things in either direction. You know, to not sort of lapse into the kind of stories my dad told about his gritty childhood on the Lower east side, being chased by gangs and all of that. Like, to sort of try to tell them the truth as I know it, rather than Perpetuating these almost cinematic myths that of course have a lot of truth to them.

Joanna Rakoff [00:45:39]:
My father wasn’t lying to me about his childhood, about his family’s life. He just was kind of leaving things out and making things more the way he wanted them to be or the more exciting, as exciting as they could be. So I try very hard not to do this. I think prior to writing this essay I was much less conscious of this tendency and bought into a little bit more of the stories I had been told and also felt, I think my parents really felt like they needed to protect me. In fact, I know that they did. The reason they kept this secret about my late siblings was a feeling that they needed to protect me. I eventually found out that my mother wanted me never to be known as coming from this tragic family. What had happened to my family was not just tragic, it was very publicly tragic.

Joanna Rakoff [00:46:24]:
I now know. And we lived in a town, you know, everyone knew our family, we lived in the center of town. Parents were very active in all elements of the town, professionally and politically and. And my mother just didn’t want me to have this specter chasing me. And that’s part of the reason that she never told me about these things. And I think there’s a layer of that to every aspect of what my parents told me about who I am and who our family was. And so I realized that part of that was generational, but that I had inherited that and that there were so many ways in which I tried to protect my kids, who I just want to mention, span in age between 9 and 20 with a 16 year old in between. So the 9 year old is really little.

Joanna Rakoff [00:47:04]:
And it is okay to protect her from. From things. Certainly it’s okay to protect all of them from things, but I think that I in general started giving them all a lot more credit for being able to understand things than I had before. So thank you, Michelle, for making me a better parent.

Michele Filgate [00:47:21]:
It’s really moving to hear, A little embarrassing for me.

Joanna Rakoff [00:47:26]:
I used to be one of those people who was like, writing is not therapy. And now I’m like, maybe it’s a.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:47:32]:
Little bit, but it’s kind of the thing about parenting I’m thinking about, like, we don’t know what we’re doing when we’re parents. Like, we really don’t. Like, that’s what I think I learned about my dad is he didn’t know how to raise children, especially in a different country. We’re all still learning, we’re all still getting better and fine tuning our Parenting skills. And I love hearing that. It’s so interesting.

Joanna Rakoff [00:47:51]:
Well, there’s like, that Russian idea, the first pancake. I think the first person who mentioned it to me was M. Gessen, who used to be known as Masha Gessen, the writer and I introduced interviewed her so long ago, and she mentioned this concept of the first pancake, which is that the first child is the one where you’re like, you have no idea what you’re doing. You don’t know if the griddle is too hot or too cool. So it could be burned, it could be undercooked and too pale. And then after that, all the pancakes turn out, like, perfectly browned and the right texture and that kind of thing. And you feel like, well, there is some truth to that. And hopefully the oldest one turns out.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:48:27]:
Note, this is my eldest daughter thing. I’m telling you, it’s real, it’s true. Or eldest child syndrome. Yeah, that’s so fascinating.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:35]:
Well, I really appreciate all of you sharing your stories today. And we always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection 6. And I usually ask dads these questions, but I’m going to ask you these questions as well. First and foremost, what’s one word that describes your relationship with your own father?

Joanna Rakoff [00:48:52]:
I feel like if I had to choose one word for my dad, the first thing that comes to mind is magical.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:48:58]:
I would have to say it’s an Arabic word, the word habibi, which a lot of people are familiar with. It just means my love. And it can refer to your significant other, to your child, to your parent. But it’s a word I heard just growing up. Every single day I call my kids habibi. It’s something we heard a lot. It captures so much, like, softness and tenderness. And that’s the word that came to mind when you asked that question.

Michele Filgate [00:49:22]:
I think I would say creative, because my father, like I said, he has a background as a musician and he had a recording studio, and he’s also a very talented artist, just as a hobby, not something he’s pursued. So the word creative, what’s the best.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:37]:
Piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:49:40]:
It’s kind of a question that my dad would say, he would ask us all the time if I would say, I can’t do this. He would say, who said you can’t? And then that would lead to, like, a larger discussion of you’re telling yourself you can’t, but you don’t even know that you can’t. So he would always say, who says you Can’t. So it’s advice in the form of a question. I think.

Michele Filgate [00:49:58]:
I think for me, my father, I wouldn’t say it’s one specific thing he said, but he could always tell when I was with the wrong person. And it frustrated me because I didn’t want my dad to weigh in on my love life. But he knew. He just knew. And so I wish I had listened to him over my many years of dating instead of just being scoffing and being like, it’s my dad, he’s not gonna be happy with anyone. I dare date. Because as soon as I met my husband, I just got married last year, he was immediately part of the family. And my dad loves my husband so much and Andy is like a son to him.

Michele Filgate [00:50:34]:
So I think that I wish I had listened to my dad sooner.

Joanna Rakoff [00:50:38]:
These are two kind of quotidian, pedestrian things. My family is not one for, like big proclamations or life changing pieces of advice or guidance. But we ate out a lot when I was a kid. I now know, I think, because my mom, mom was really not in the best state. And my mom somehow had this tendency, it was like she was a contrarian or something. So we would go to like a seafood restaurant in Maine and my mom would order a hamburger and it would be terrible. And my father would say, you gotta eat steak in a steakhouse. And there’s a way in which, like, obviously this is just like very silly advice, but as the older I’ve gotten, I think about that all the time the way my mom always did that.

Joanna Rakoff [00:51:18]:
This. We would go to a steakhouse and she would order fish and be like, this isn’t good and this restaurant is terrible. And my father would say, you gotta eat steak in a steakhouse. And it applies to so many things and it, you know, almost like any situation that you get yourself into, there’s a way in which it boils down to, you should eat steak in a steakhouse. Even with romantic partners, Michelle, it’s like you can’t expect someone to be someone they’re not. But conversation. Conversely, my dad was a very mischievous person and a very adventurous person who. He was the person who you’d be on the beach in Hawaii or wherever, staying at.

Joanna Rakoff [00:51:55]:
Not like the Four Seasons. And you’d take a walk along the beach and you’d see the pool at the Four Seasons and be like, let’s just go in there and swim. And I’d be like, but dad, you know, we’re not staying there. And he’d be like, they’re not Gonna know. And you would. And it was almost always fine. Like, and he loved to go, shh, don’t tell anyone. Like, don’t tell anyone.

Joanna Rakoff [00:52:13]:
And I definitely. The older I’ve gotten, the more I’ve taken that, shh, don’t tell anyone in that there are so many rules you can break that will make your life better, but that won’t harm anyone and maybe will help people. And it just lends your life a little bit of a spark, in a way. But it also. As a writer, I have this whole talk that I give that started as a commencement speech for college, and I now give it different MFA programs and whatever that is called, Break every rule. And I realized that it came out of my dad saying this to me. And as a writer, you really do have to throw out all rules when you sit down and that sort of blank screen or blank, blank legal pad is in front of you. So I feel like that, shh, don’t tell anyone.

Joanna Rakoff [00:53:08]:
Because no one’s gonna know. No reader is gonna read your book and be like, oh, you’re not supposed to have a lot of backstory at the front of the book. Like, no. You know, these rules that you learn, no one is ever going to know if you break them. They’re just. If you write a great book or a great essay, they’re just gonna be absorbed in it. Follow some rules, break all the others.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:53:26]:
I love that so much.

Michele Filgate [00:53:28]:
Me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:29]:
Now I know. Susan and Joanna, you both have daughters. If you could give your daughter one life lesson in. In a single sentence, what would it be?

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:53:37]:
I would tell her, you don’t have to fix everybody. You don’t have to fix people. It’s not your job to fix people. I think, and I say this because growing up in my family, I was always helping, and I was always the second in command, so to speak. And whenever there was something wrong, I would feel very responsible for it. And I’m still like that. I have students who will come to me. They may have disappeared midway through the semester, and then they come to me a month later, the semester’s over, and they want to me to help them magically pass the class.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:54:07]:
And I get really invested. I try. I think the older I get, the more I’m like, it’s not my job to fix the world. Maybe all women need to hear this advice. It’s not our job to do that. It doesn’t mean you can’t be nice and you can’t be helpful, but you should not take it on as your responsibility. So that would be my advice.

Joanna Rakoff [00:54:24]:
I think I’m torn here because there’s so much I want to tell my daughters. But I think maybe the biggest thing that encompasses some of the others would be be don’t let anyone’s ideas about who you are or what you can do shape the choices you make with your life. I think I, as a kid, college student, a young person, really did. I think that I, in a sponge like way, absorbed what people were telling me about myself, like about the way that I looked, about who I was in the world, about what was possible for me. And I really did let those things affect me and affect, affect even some of my biggest choices in life. And in some ways they kind of contradicted the things that my father told me. But I let those outside voices affect me in such a deep and profound way. And it bothers me to this day.

Joanna Rakoff [00:55:19]:
And I really hope that I can free my daughters from that and free them from allowing those outside ideas and voices to have them take the safer route, especially professionally, rather than kind of going for what they want.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:55:37]:
As you think about your own relationship with your own father and you think about other fathers that are out there trying to build those connections with their daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Michele Filgate [00:55:54]:
I would say that I think it’s easy for dads to get kind of embarrassed talking about quote unquote traditional girl things with girls. And I would encourage fathers to be more open minded about listening to their daughters and not just changing the subject or walking away or dismissing them. I would say I would love to see dads take their daughters seriously with, Whether they’re talking about a crush they have or a movie star that they like or whatever, Even if it’s something that they seem that they’re not as interested in. Listen and take your daughter’s interests seriously.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:56:35]:
If I could piggyback on that, I would say, ask your daughters for advice yourself. Like, tell your daughters I had a bad day at work and this coworker said this thing to me. What do you think I should do? I think I should talk to him tomorrow. But what do you think? Ask her advice. Tell her about, don’t make yourself the person who knows everything. Show her that you also have bad days and you would like to listen to her input. I remember my dad would talk to me all the time. I had a customer today who said this.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:57:02]:
It really put me in a bad mood or I’m not sure what to do about your brother’s. Wrestling schedule. He would talk to me and ask for my input. And I think it would make your daughter feel that her input matters. And she would never allow anyone in her future to dismiss her input or, or dismiss her opinion or point of view because she’s used to having her voice be heard by the most important man in her life until that point.

Joanna Rakoff [00:57:26]:
And really similarly, I of course have two things that I’ll say very quick, but similarly I would say let them in, which is kind of saying the same thing as both of you. Like I’m just thinking about last night. My husband, who is my two older kids stepfather but is very close with them, he has all sorts of quirky interests and loves and like finds tremendous, tremendous excitement and humor and like the Eurovision Song Awards and that kind of thing. And loves to laugh and have fun and enjoy whatever he enjoys. And last night he was watching the Scripps National Spelling Bee and I was putting my younger daughter to sleep and he grabbed my 16 year old who you would not think would necessarily, if you knew her, you wouldn’t think it would be her interest. But he was like, you have to watch this, it’s amazing. And I came out of my younger daughter’s room and heard that hysterically laughing and cheering and I don’t know if you guys watched it, but they were just going crazy. They were like sarp and, and it was the most fun and just I think bringing your daughter in rather than that kind of conventional thing of like, I’m interested in basketball and I’m going to this game with my friends and we will drink beer.

Joanna Rakoff [00:58:33]:
Realizing that your daughter can share your interests if you let her in and give her the chance and think about them in a kind of non conventional way and think about yourself in a non conventional way. But the other related thing I just would say is find every opportunity to laugh. You know, like listen to her stories from school when she comes home. Listen to all of her stories. You know, she might talk for two hours about things that happened at lunch that her friends did. And maybe you’re kind of like zoning out and thinking about work, but don’t really listen and find the moment when you can laugh about things and, and so she can laugh about them too.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:59:13]:
And I just want to add one thing which is that these are all the things that we’re mentioning are things that any father can do. Especially like fathers who are like working class fathers who don’t like have a lot. Like fathers are always into this idea of being the provider and if they are not able to, like, financially or materially provide a lot for their children. And, you know, we live in this materialistic society. You can feel bad about yourself, I think, as a father, because you’re not giving your kids the same things that other children are getting from their parents. And your kids will let you know that their friend has an apple watch, and they don’t. But all the things that we’re talking about are more lasting than those things. And they’re things any father can do.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:59:53]:
You don’t have to be. You don’t have to be making a quarter million dollars a year to sit and talk to your child or watch the spelling bee with them or chat with them and build those. Build that sense of trust and love with your daughter.

Joanna Rakoff [01:00:06]:
And, Susan, just listening to you, I’m realizing that there’s one thing that we’re all saying which is just listen. Like, listen more than you talk. You know, if your daughter is talking to you about anything that’s on her mind, like a problem with a grade, you know, not being the starter for the rugby team, like, whatever it is a dilemma that she has, you know, with, do I do this night or that night, or I didn’t get this part in the school play. She doesn’t need you to solve the problem for her. I think this is a thing that dads do. My own dad did not do this, but I see this in my life, this need to kind of solve a problem. Be like, why don’t you just do this? Or, let’s just do this, or, I’ll just call the school. But that’s not what they need.

Joanna Rakoff [01:00:45]:
They just need you to listen. That’s all they want, is for you to listen, to really listen. Not while looking at your phone, not while doing paperwork, not while, like, raking leaves. Like, to really, really listen. Which is, I suppose, why driving can be such a wonderful time. Dads and daughters.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [01:01:06]:
And actually, if I can quote my mother here, one of my mother’s favorite sayings is, God gave you two ears and one mouth because you’re supposed to listen twice as much as you talk. She. She said that all the time. I don’t know where she heard it, but she said it all the time. And I. She would say that to us when we were gabbing a lot, I think, but she said it in other, more appropriate moments. So listening. I think you’re right, Joanna.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [01:01:29]:
This is about just building a relationship through listening. And when you listen, you’re really hearing and seeing your child as the beautiful individual that they are.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:01:40]:
Well, I just want to say thank you to all three of you for being here today. Your words are so important and the relationship that you had with your own fathers and that you have with your own fathers is so powerful. I appreciate you sharing not only this journey with us today, but in the book. And Michelle, if people want to find out more about the authors in the book or the book itself, where should they go?

Michele Filgate [01:02:04]:
Yes, I encourage them to buy the book from their local independent bookstore, but they can also go to my website and I have information about the book on my website. Michellephilgate.com.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:02:16]:
Well, again, thank you so much for your time today for sharing your own journey with your fathers. And I wish you all the best.

Michele Filgate [01:02:24]:
Thank you.

Susan Muaddi Darraj [01:02:25]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:02:25]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:02:26]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [01:02:57]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best that you can.

Humor, Heart & Hard Truths: Dads Guiding Daughters Toward Adulthood

September 1, 2025 by dadofdivas

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

If you’re a dad who wants to create a lasting, meaningful bond with your daughter, you won’t want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rob Finlay—bestselling author, accomplished entrepreneur, and dad of four (including three daughters)—for an honest, heartwarming discussion about the joys and challenges of fatherhood.

From the start, Dr. Lewis emphasizes that being a great dad is less about perfection and more about presence and intentional connection. There’s no universal playbook for fatherhood, especially when it comes to raising girls who are confident and independent. That’s why he brings in guests like Rob, who candidly shares both his successes and the lessons learned through mistakes.

One standout theme is the importance of vulnerability and authenticity. Rob talks about never hiding his emotions from his daughters, showing them by example that strength and sensitivity aren’t mutually exclusive. He wanted his girls to see a father who could be both a gentleman and deeply caring—teaching by doing rather than merely telling.

Throughout the conversation, both Dr. Lewis and Rob stress the value of teaching resilience and self-reliance. Rob encouraged his daughters to try new things, pushed them to stick with commitments, and allowed them to experience failure—knowing these moments are key to personal growth. He highlights the importance of letting daughters step into adulthood on their terms, supporting them with guidance rather than control.

Another powerful insight is Rob’s approach to life skills. Prompted by a late-night call from his daughter (“Can I put the green gas in my Jeep?”), Rob realized the value of giving kids the foundational tools they need to navigate adulthood—from financial conversations to problem-solving. His new book, Hey Dad, Everything You Should Have Learned About Life But Didn’t, is packed with practical, real-world advice and a healthy dose of humor to make learning approachable.

Fatherhood isn’t static, and the parent-child relationship evolves—what matters is open, honest communication and the willingness to keep learning together. Whether you’re helping your daughter make big life decisions or just sharing a favorite meal, every interaction counts.

Ready to be inspired? Listen to this heartfelt episode and take away actionable tips to deepen your connection with your daughter. Tune in at Dad and Daughter Connection—and start building those strong, confident relationships, one day at a time.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on this journey that we’re on. Learning more, doing more, and trying to be the dads that we want to be, to be able to build those connections that we want with our daughters one day at a time. And I first and foremost want to say thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:13]:
Thank you for always coming back every week and putting yourself out there to learn more. Because all of us are a work in progress and to be honest, none of us know everything that we need to know to be able to be the dads that we want to be. Becoming a dad does not have a playbook. It does. There’s no right way to father. But there’s a lot of things that you can learn along the way to help you to be that engaged, more present dad that you want to become. And especially in raising daughters, there are so many things that we can do to be able to build those positive relationships through positive communication. And that’s why every week I love being able to bring you different people, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to add some tools to your own toolbox that you can then take into the day to day experiences that you’re having with your daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]:
Today we got another great guest. Rob Findlay is with us today. And Rob’s not only a best selling author and accomplished entrepreneur, but also a dad of four. And as a part of those four, he has three daughters. His personal stories of late night calls for help paired with his professional expertise make him unique, uniquely qualified to speak to parents about raising capable, confident young adults. Plus, his engaging, no nonsense delivery resonates with anyone who ever who has ever googled how to reset a circuit breaker at 2:00am I love that. And we’re going to be talking about a brand new book that he has called hey, dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn’t. And it is definitely a humorous and practical guide to the real world lessons that every young adult needs to know, but that are not always taught.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
So we’re going to be talking about his book as well as, first and foremost, learning more about him as a dad. But, Rob, thank you so much for being here today.

Rob Finlay [00:03:04]:
Oh, thank you so much for having me on the show. I’ll tell you, I Wish you existed 20 plus years ago when I had daughters, because I’ll tell you, I grew up in a family with a brother, dad and mom, but. But maybe a little bit more traditional where it was very much a man’s household. And in fact, I go so far as my mom wouldn’t even put pantyhose that she would buy from the grocery store in the same bag. My brother and I could see it. So I grew up without any real understanding of what it was like to have a sister or anything until Lord blessed me one day with three beautiful daughters and I had no idea what I was doing. So I wish you were there years ago for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]:
Well, you can still learn and you never stop being a father to a daughter. So there’s always going to be more things to learn along the way. So that being said, I want to learn a little bit more about you as a dad, seeing that you come from that background. I guess as you think back to your daughters and raising your daughters, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Rob Finlay [00:04:07]:
I think one of the things is I was never afraid to show emotions in front of my daughters. I think that was a very different departure from maybe where I was, but they would know. And now it’s almost the joke of they see a movie with a dog dying or something sad in the movie that dad will cry. And I think it was important for them to see that emotion. At the same point, I also wanted them to see what I wanted to portray as a male to them, which is I’m polite, I’m respectful, I have manners, I have etiquette. Right? These are the things that were important. So I wanted to be a gentleman and maybe a little bit on the macho side, but also showing that I had enough sensitivity and tenderness that I could support them at either direction.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:49]:
As you just said that. I mean, you said you weren’t afraid to show that vulnerability, but at the same time, you also had that macho side as well. And so there’s A balance between both sides of that personality. And as you’re raising daughters, you’re trying to balance, also guiding them to give them the independence to grow into their own person. And so how did you do that?

Rob Finlay [00:05:15]:
I think it was about pushing them. I actually believe that I wanted to see them fail. I wanted to see. And I know that’s very hard. I mean, parents can’t. And probably back at the time, I probably didn’t. But in hindsight, I was much more open to them exploring their own paths and pushing them, but not being overbearing. I wanted them to have interest and do things on their own, keep them focused.

Rob Finlay [00:05:37]:
If they made a commitment to do cello, well, you’re going to take Chiello. You’re not going to try it for two days and then quit. You’re going to do it and you’re going to try it. But if you don’t like it after that, or if you. If you’re really horrible at it, doesn’t really matter, but at least you’ve tried it. And so those were some of the things that I did. One of the important things that I feel that for young adults and for young kids is to have a broader experience with other adults and other people outside their friend groups. And this was critical for me, that I wanted to make sure that my girls and my son, too, were comfortable networking, having adult conversations, and being exposed to things other than just mom and dad in their friend group.

Rob Finlay [00:06:19]:
And so since they were young, you had them in farming groups. I would have them come to business meals with me just so they could see what it was like to be exposed to something other than just the sort of the family unit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]:
As I said at the very beginning, going through this process of raising daughters is a learning process for all of us as fathers. And there are specific things that we all can do to be able to strengthen that bond with our daughters. For you, with three daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have done, have worked in the past or are currently working to strengthen your bonds with your daughters, and especially during challenging times?

Rob Finlay [00:07:00]:
I think, first of all, the young women that I see today, the young women that are my. My daughters, those are my daughters, we said, like, when they’re in their 20s, are very different than the young women that I knew 25 years ago when I was a young man. And the young ladies today that I’ve created and I’ve seen are much more independent. And therefore, the needs that they have tend to be more of financial understanding and business understanding and things like that. And my Daughters typically will come to me with questions that are much more about their financial independence than it is about navigating their own personal life or personal relationships. There I think there was a stage not, you know, all fathers, I think, go through this where your daughter is the apple in your eye and she’s there and she’s with you all the time and she’ll tell you everything. Then she goes to this different stage where maybe she’s not as comfortable talking to you about boyfriends and things that they’re doing. But then it comes back around where now these boyfriends are becoming, okay, this is not just a boyfriend, this is actually a serious relationship and we want to move in together.

Rob Finlay [00:08:06]:
So we start having those dialogues of that where it’s a very different situation. It’s not dad being emotional saying, okay, I’m bringing a boy to the house for the first time, it’s dad, this could be my life partner for life. And what are the things that I have to think about from a practical or even a, I don’t want to say business, but a financial standpoint. And that’s where these conversations have started. And these are very difficult conversations because at 20 some odd years old, these are adult conversations. When you’re talking about, one of my daughters has a very good job, her boyfriend does not, they’re sharing expenses, they’re living together. So now it becomes a different thing of, okay, well how do you protect these things that are yours and yet still have these relationships? And it’s almost equivalent to what a prenup agreement is to an adult. You’re now having these conversations with people who are in their early stage of adulting, just launching.

Rob Finlay [00:08:56]:
And they have so much to do anyways with just launching. They’re on this what I call magic carpet ride of life where from the day they’re born, basically until they have this big life moment which is graduation, and get thrown into the real world, everything is coming at them all at once. And now you have to compound it with some pretty difficult grown up conversations.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]:
So talk to me about that because you are having those conversations. And as I’m listening to that, I know I have a daughter in college right now, she’s not at that point yet. How do you approach that without stepping over the line and stepping into a lane that, that they don’t want you in? In that regard, I think at this.

Rob Finlay [00:09:36]:
Point is this is where you let your child fail to a level where it’s acceptable. But there are times where father knows best, even though they don’t like it and sometimes. But I’ve been around the block. I’ve experienced this myself. And so coming to them with this conversation, I think it’s more of the approach where I want them to come to their own conclusions, but the questions that I lead will prompt them. It’s not that I’m trying to show influence over my daughter, but rather use my influence to let them come and make the right decisions themselves. And they are hard. The first move in boyfriend is.

Rob Finlay [00:10:12]:
Is the big one, and we live together, and it’s gonna be wonderful. Oh, okay. But let me ask you, what would happen if, first things first, you get a pet together? Who gets the pet if something happens? Just think about. You make your own decisions. I think I’m very quick to do that with my girls. I want them to make the decisions, but let them know the consequences, the things that they don’t think about. Because you’re like, you’re at a. At an all you can eat buffet.

Rob Finlay [00:10:35]:
You want to eat as much as you possib you can without the consequences of, oh, geez, I just ate way too much later that night. And so it is about having the mind. And I think the important part of all of this is the demeanor that I have to provide to my daughters is one of very calm. And my wife is usually very good to maybe give me a little pinch. Right. If we’re on the call and I might get a little excited, they can hear it in my voice. I have to detune it a little bit because I think. And at least with my own experience, and it’s also a little skewed for me, because my day job is my business, just like yours.

Rob Finlay [00:11:08]:
You’re at the university. My day job is at a business, and I hire a lot of young analysts right out of college. And predominantly, they are young men. And so my management style with them is different. And just like with my son, my conversation, my tone with my son is very different. With my daughters, including each individual daughter, there’s a different approach to talk to each one. And so it just comes back to the demeanor has to be set, and the conversation, the tone has to be set commensurate with the child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:
You know, I know that there have been plenty of times that I’ve made mistakes, and none of us are infallible. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn about it in regards to fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:11:50]:
Well, I’ll tell you, there’s a lot of things. I mean, the whole Purpose of the book that I wrote was because of a late night phone call just on a certain instance. And I realized, have I taught my kids everything that they should know to go be an adult? And not that you have to know everything because you learn as an adult, you learn every day. But, but have I given them the foundation? Go out, get out on their own, get a job, get an apartment, make friends, become a good healthy adult. All of these things have I built them the foundation? And then it starts to do the. Where it spirals as a father, like, well, geez, you know what? I spent all my younger years when they were around trying to build a business thinking that it was important for me to provide for them. And maybe the providing that I should have given was maybe more emotional and less financial. So it starts to come around as what did I do wrong as a father? Now, fortunately I have a good relationship with all of my kids and but this book has really sort of opened up my eyes where I look back at all these things that I don’t know that I taught them.

Rob Finlay [00:12:49]:
Was it because I wasn’t there? Was I an absent father? Or was it maybe in many cases I told them and they didn’t listen, or was it because I wanted to take care of them? And I’m very guilty of that with my girls. My girls, if they know if there was a light that went on in their car, all they had to do is go up and say, hey dad, Daddy, there’s a light on in my car. And I would go run fix it it, I wouldn’t make them do it. Now in hindsight would have been better for me to push them back to solve their own problems.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
So let’s talk about your book. And as I mentioned, you do have this brand new book called hey dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn’t. And one of the things that I noticed when looking at the book, you talk about that green handle moment in your book and it’s a powerful moment. So it was that call that you got. And so tell me more about that call. But what did that call from your daughter teach you about the importance of dad and daughter communications in the transition to adulthood?

Rob Finlay [00:13:46]:
So the call to put give your listeners sort of the perspective, it’s the middle of the night, probably one or two o’clock in the morning, which for me that’s, that’s bedtime. I’m already asleep for hours here. And every parent fears this call in the middle of the night. And I got it and I look over and it’s one of my daughters calling. And I knew she was on a road trip. She was traveling from Wisconsin to go down to Austin, Texas. They were looking for a job. She was a college senior at the time.

Rob Finlay [00:14:12]:
And I’m panicked because my kids know that a call this late doesn’t. That has to be an emergency. She picked up, and I was like, what’s wrong? Because that’s my first instinct. What is wrong? Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? Nope. Hey, dad. Sorry to bother you. No, nothing. It’s just a very quick.

Rob Finlay [00:14:27]:
Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? And my heart rate has to come down, comes down. I’m starting to pain. I’m like, starting to think, okay, I’m woken up. Like, I finally realized, are you talking about diesel? Are you thinking about putting diesel in your Jeep? And she was almost hostile with me. Like, how dare I even. Yes, can I do it? Like, she was frustrated with me asking questions. And at that point I realized, like, you know, obviously, maybe I didn’t teach her this. This is shame on me.

Rob Finlay [00:14:52]:
But also at the same point, I felt like, was it because it was easier to call me than to go and look at it on her own? Right. Could she have done research? Could she have gone on Google? Right. I mean, we’re in the Internet society. There’s. There’s ways to get answers. And so I think it was more about that she wanted to reach out to me, to look for advice, to maybe in a reassuring moment, because there were some factors there that were going on, such as there was not to spoil this section of the book. It was. We had a fuel crisis on the east coast at that time, and none of the gas stations had gas.

Rob Finlay [00:15:25]:
And, you know, even while dad said, it’s probably not a great time to do a trip, how can I stop her from going? But it was more of like, is she just trying to get some reassurance? And I think that comes down to one of the things that I feel, and this is that moment, is I think my kids and my girls in particular know what to do. But sometimes it’s nice to have a little bit of reassurance. It’s reassurance from dad that, yeah, I am doing the right thing. Yes, I’m going to be okay, or maybe I’m not doing the right thing and maybe I should do this or think differently about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]:
So that kind of leads into another part in your book where you talk about letting your kids call you or as a father, into the playing field. Only when they’re ready. So how has that approach shaped your relationship with your daughters over time?

Rob Finlay [00:16:10]:
Look, I’m a businessman. I have no medical credentials, no nothing. It’s me as a dad trying to do the best I can. I think I probably pushed my kids out into situations probably faster than I should have. Now, it’s also siblings, right? So, I mean, the easiest way to go get a sibling to swim is to watch their other siblings swim. Of course, they want to do that naturally. And so while it’s probably more sheltering and sheltered with my son and then my next daughter, and then by the time the fourth one comes around, you’re a little bit more like, go ahead, go do these things. Go take responsibilities, having jobs, having chores, the girls grew up on a farm, about opening up and seeing things that are really, you’re not going to see on TV and you’re not going to see on social media.

Rob Finlay [00:16:54]:
And I think that was a big thing. And I think when I was writing this book, one of the things that I really wanted to do was go out and seek experts in the field of everything from finding an apartment to maintaining a car to what to do in emergencies, banking, insurance, taxes, all the things that I think are of core foundational purpose for young adults to become adults. And I think what I really did with this was I tried to mirror it, it to what my girls were learning and what I want them to learn going forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:26]:
Is there a story that you can share where that strategy for you either built more trust or even backfired?

Rob Finlay [00:17:33]:
The first thing I’ve learned, and I’m sure a lot of fathers know this, especially if their daughters are in. In dating age, if you say you don’t like the boy, he’s staying. I’ve learned very quickly that there are things that I do now that have backfired. When I try to say, you know what? A young man who’s coming to date, you should have a firm handshake. He should look at me in the eye. He should be polite. He should be polite to you. He should give attention to you, right? He should.

Rob Finlay [00:17:55]:
And when I realized that there’s a different way, once again, it comes back to the conversation. Letting them know, if I don’t like this guy, he doesn’t shake my hand, right? All that’s going to do is say, oh, that’s going to be my new boyfriend. But if I talk about how I’ve noticed these young men at my office, how great they are by being polite, or how important it is, and even this comes down to how I am as a father in particular. This is just a purely on relationship side, but my wife requires us to do once a week, date night, to spend time together. Not on our phone, not with everything. And I think the kids and, and my girls see that. It’s like it’s important that somebody give you attention, focus on you and make you feel special, because that is what you are to me. But dad’s blue in the face until I tell you how special you are.

Rob Finlay [00:18:41]:
I hear you, dad. I hear you. I hear you. But somebody else has to do that. And making them expect that is part of that learning of being an adult is getting the respect of yourself first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:52]:
A lot of times in my experience as a father, I have noticed that a lot of the life lessons that you see out in memes, in writing, a lot of that is focused on sons. Especially when you look at things like self reliance or money management or dealing with failure, There’s a lot of that out in the world. How did writing this book change or reinforce the kind of life lessons you think daughters specifically need from their dads today?

Rob Finlay [00:19:22]:
Personally, I don’t differentiate the two. I think there’s a couple things. One is I think the skills that I’m trying to talk about, the foundational skills that I talk about in my book are truly just what every adult. It doesn’t matter what you are, every adult needs to know how to do these basic things. This isn’t like one plus one. This is actually just more foundational. Right? It’s not about. About how to tie a tie, but rather when you should wear a tie or obviously daughter something different.

Rob Finlay [00:19:47]:
But to me, when I wrote the book, I wanted everybody to have these foundations because I think no matter what it is, if even it’s about life, it’s all the same. I can tell you though, what I have learned in all of this is that doing the research and talking to other parents, and talking to other parents in particular, it seems like the young ladies are actually more confident and are doing better and are at a very, very different path than young men. And I know that it’s not as popular of a conversation because I personally think everybody should be lifted. You should never have one group of people below the other. Everybody should be lifted. Everybody should. Being successful and having a good life. So after I wrote this book and talked to my girls and my son about it, it really became more of I think I’ve done okay, but not by me.

Rob Finlay [00:20:31]:
It’s probably because they’re smart, they’re independent, and they Take it upon themselves. And yes, they’ll ask crazy questions, questions, but it’s also a matter of time. Young adults today have not just their parents talking to them or their relationship with their dad, but they also have their relationship with social media. And so the influence that social media has, especially on some of these life lessons, is huge. A lot bigger than when I was growing up. As what mom and dad said, that was pretty much it. And yeah, my buddies, they’d be influences, but I don’t have a screen showing me what I should be making for a job. I don’t have a screen showing me how, at any moment, being compared to something.

Rob Finlay [00:21:05]:
And so I really do believe that it comes down to as parents. And the best thing that we can do with our sons and daughters is to encourage them to have confidence in themselves, give them the tools to be confident adults, because it comes quick and it comes pretty fast. And I know our first instinct is to protect them from it and keep them all. Let them save more money, let them stay at home, let them stay under the nest. I don’t know if that’s necessarily the best thing for young adults to get out into this world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:31]:
Your book has a lot of humor in it. And what role do you think humor plays in building deeper connections between fathers and daughters, especially when navigating those adulting fails?

Rob Finlay [00:21:43]:
Look, life is too stressful as it is. We have to, at some point, lighten up and make sure that we focus on what is really important. I look back in the fall we have when. When college acceptance come around, and the stress of these young adults and their parents is criminal. It’s absolutely criminal. The pressure that we put on for something. And this goes back to when I noticed the same thing. My first chapter on the book is probably one of the most profound and probably one of the hardest ones for me to.

Rob Finlay [00:22:10]:
To write because it was about emotion. It was like all of a sudden you’re on this, what I call that magic carpet ride, and it stops. And you as a young adult, are now faced with where to live, what to do for a job, all these other factors, and it might be too much for you, and it becomes overwhelming. And one of my daughters just recently went through this where she didn’t know where she was going to live. She didn’t know what she was going to do for a job. Her career path through college had changed because the market had changed. And this poor thing, the stress consumed her. And at some point I just had to laugh and just say, listen, this just life, it’s Important, but relax.

Rob Finlay [00:22:44]:
And so one of the first things I do when I talk to young adults, just take a deep breath. The decision you make today on your first job or where you’re going to live is not going to be your last decision. You are going to make these decisions. So having humor and putting that in sort of lightens the load a little bit. It’s also sort of my style, too. I don’t want to stress them out even more. Oh, my gosh, yes, you need to have the right job. Because if you don’t have the right job first, well, you’ll never get your second job.

Rob Finlay [00:23:08]:
The second job won’t be great. I don’t think that is beneficial. Letting him relax, going into a situation. It was actually probably the Navy SEAL who I interviewed in the book was probably on emergencies, probably tied it all back to me, which was he’s like, look, when people get anxious, they make mistakes. And so relax. Understand the situation. If you can relax, then you can find your way out of it. So in that same tune.

Rob Finlay [00:23:31]:
So it’s sort of fitting that that last part of the book is what to do in Emergencies, written by a Navy SEAL and an emergency parameter medic. What ties back into the first part, which is my people that I interviewed were clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and how to tie it back, which is just relax. You can make good decisions if you relax and think clearly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
Now, your book also emphasizes getting a plan and visualizing a life. How can dads help daughters develop a life direction without overwhelming them with their own expectations?

Rob Finlay [00:24:02]:
For me, one of the stories I put in there is actually one of my daughters loves hiking. Hiking loves being in the outdoors. And we sort of talk about that hiking path, right? And so I asked her, I’m like, well, what do you like in hiking? Like, how do you pick what you want to go? And she would say, well, if I want to hike on the beach, I go pick a hike towards the beach. If I want to hike in the mountains, I want to go pick a hike in the mountains. And we use that as an analogy to sort of talk about life. Well, where do you want to go? Do you want to be in science or what? So trying to take their interests and tie it back into a story, more of a narrative, into helping them. Them pick what they want. And if you can equate it back to things that are simple like a hike, she’s like, oh, wait, hike.

Rob Finlay [00:24:43]:
Yeah, I really like science. And you know what the best part about a hike is? If you don’t like it, you can turn left, right, or go back. You can do different things. And so using those kind of stories and those kind of tools will help them write the narrative of their own. I also believe in a lot in visualization. Describe to me. I love movies, I love television shows. And so I’m always like, let’s create a scene for me.

Rob Finlay [00:25:06]:
Where do you work? Give me a picture of that. Talk to me. Are you driving into the office or are you walking knowing would you live in a city or would you be in the suburbs? And letting them build their own story in their brain. And that helps them get the sort of the, the, the destination and the direction started. It’s not going to be everything, but it’s going to give them the start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]:
Now, if people want to find out more about the book, about you, where should they go?

Rob Finlay [00:25:30]:
So they can go to heydadbook.com which is all about the book. If they want to learn more about me and the, the other stuff I’ve done, they can go to rob finlay.com that’s f I n l a y.com also on all the social media stuff. So I try to show things from work, things from the book, things from the farm, try to make it as interesting as I can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]:
Now I always finish our interviews with what I call our dad Connection 6, which asks you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you and your relationship with your daughters. Are you ready?

Rob Finlay [00:26:04]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:05]:
What’s one word that describes your relationships with your daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:26:08]:
Strong.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:09]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Rob Finlay [00:26:13]:
Don’t give up.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:14]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Rob Finlay [00:26:18]:
Eating. They’re going to hate me, by the way, when they get this. They’re going to, they’re going to like, follow me. I’m going to hear all about this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Rob Finlay [00:26:28]:
Be happy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Rob Finlay [00:26:34]:
That I actually have it in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:36]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Rob Finlay [00:26:43]:
Be open and honest and communicate well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:46]:
Rob, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for your willingness to share your own journey with your daughters. Thank you for putting this book out into the world. I’ll definitely put links in the notes today for everyone to be able to find you and find the book. But I truly appreciate all that you’re doing to be able to help fathers to connect with their kids in different ways, help young adults to make that transition into adulthood and more. And I wish you all the best.

Rob Finlay [00:27:15]:
Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:27:48]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.